Palin on ABC News

[quote author="CapitalismWorks" date=1221275208][quote author="Nude" date=1221205672]In a word... fumbling.



If she does this badly versus Biden, it's game over for the GOP.</blockquote>


I don't think fumbling against Biden is that big of deal. Perhaps Biden can further his point that Hillary would make a better VP than himself...</blockquote>


Maybe Biden can ask another person confined to a wheelchair to stand up...
 
[quote author="Nude" date=1221205672]In a word... fumbling.



If she does this badly versus Biden, it's game over for the GOP.</blockquote>


I haven't seen it, so I can't comment.



Was it really that bad?
 
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1221279556][quote author="Nude" date=1221205672]In a word... fumbling.



If she does this badly versus Biden, it's game over for the GOP.</blockquote>


I haven't seen it, so I can't comment.



Was it really that bad?</blockquote>
Bad?

<blockquote>GIBSON: What insight into Russian actions, particularly in the last couple of weeks, does the proximity of the state give you?



PALIN: <strong>They're our next door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska.</strong>



GIBSON: What insight does that give you into what they're doing in Georgia?



PALIN: Well, I'm giving you that perspective of how small our world is and how important it is that we work with our allies to keep good relation with all of these countries, especially Russia. We will not repeat a Cold War. We must have good relationship with our allies, pressuring, also, helping us to remind Russia that it's in their benefit, also, a mutually beneficial relationship for us all to be getting along.</blockquote>


She's good on a few specific issues, but doesn't know much about much else and it shows. I'm not saying she is stupid, just not even close to being up to speed on international affairs or policies.
 
<a href="http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/forums/viewthread/2968/">So, you're saying she's not qualified to sit on the ticket as VP?</a>
 
<em>So, you?re saying she?s not qualified to sit on the ticket as VP? </em>



Don't hold your breath over that one. It's more like you see your best friend with a new really skanky g/f. She lies, she steals, she's manipulative and stabs him in the back whenever she gets the chance. But he's in L O v E and absolutely nothing you are saying is getting thru. He makes all kinds of excuses and its exasperating to see him being so blind to what everyone else so easily sees. You want to save him, but you realize at some point he's got some personal issues he needs to work out, so you just shut up and let him take his lumps.





It's more like that.



However, the majority of the country is sick of this toxic relationship we're forced to be in -something's gotta give.
 
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1221281997]<a href="http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/forums/viewthread/2968/">So, you're saying she's not qualified to sit on the ticket as VP?</a></blockquote>
Qualified? Well, she's over 35, born a US citizen, and lived here for 14 years which is all that the Constitution requires. Less qualified than others? Yes. But we aren't voting for VP are we?
 
[quote author="NoWowway" date=1221286269]<em>So, you?re saying she?s not qualified to sit on the ticket as VP? </em>



Don't hold your breath over that one. It's more like you see your best friend with a new really skanky g/f. She lies, she steals, she's manipulative and stabs him in the back whenever she gets the chance. But he's in L O v E and absolutely nothing you are saying is getting thru. He makes all kinds of excuses and its exasperating to see him being so blind to what everyone else so easily sees. You want to save him, but you realize at some point he's got some personal issues he needs to work out, so you just shut up and let him take his lumps.





It's more like that.



However, the majority of the country is sick of this toxic relationship we're forced to be in -something's gotta give.</blockquote>
Insinuating that I am an idiot isn't going to win you any respect. You are bordering on turning this into a personal attack. You need to chill out on that... now.
 
Everyone here knows you're not an idiot.



You've obviously done just fine under the Bush administration, so voting for McCain is a natural choice.



The Nude Tech guys at my home had lost some really nice jobs to the outsourcing typhoon. They USED to be Republicans - until they realized that the deliberate erosion of the middle class is a real phenomenon. They had a couple of years to watch the news and see who was taking care of the country and who was destroying big parts of it. They have decent jobs again, but they are still not going to be republicans. Not this time around. Maybe never again.



We all have our stories.
 
All of you political junkies are thinking way too deep on the Palin issue. You need to start thinking like the average voter does when assessing her impact on how they will vote. Let me give you some perspective.....Below is an actual conversation I had with my football watching buddy Vince today, while planning our Saturday afternoon USC watching party:



CK: "So, what do you think of that Sarah Palin?"

Vince: "I love her, she's hot --- I'm voting for McCain"

CK: "But what do you think of about her ideas on...(cut off)"

Vince: "Her daughters are hot, too"

CK: "Nevermind. You want me to bring Heineken or Stella?"



We can debate the nuances of her here all day, but don't forget that Vince's vote counts the same as everyone else's.
 
Skek, I'm sure you won't be surprised to hear that defense is one of the more important issues for me in the coming elections. But I'm not the least been concerned about the response to Bush Doctrine. Here's why.



First of all, if you look at the choices that each candidate made, you will realize they went after candidates that could complete the ticket. In Obama's case, defense is a major gaping hole. In McCain's case, it wasn't. Palin was added to the McCain ticket to solidify support from conservatives on social issues, to reinforce the belief in a reformist agenda at a time that it was needed, to enhance economic policies through addition of a free market supplysider to the ticket, and as a bonus, adding someone so wonkish on energy issues is certainly a plus.



If the occasion comes that Governor Palin becomes President Palin, she will have advisers who are well versed in foreign policy and defense. And when it comes time to act in her capacity as president, she won't need to answer trivia questions. What will be important at that point in time is a world view and a strong moral compass. I have seen nothing that concerns me about her views in this area, and in fact I was reassured by her answers on the subject of support for Georgia and the Ukraine as NATO members, and support of those member nations in the event of conflict with Russia. Beyond simply being reassured, I was encouraged by her response to questions about Israel.
 
<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/12/AR2008091202457.html?hpid=opinionsbox1">Here's what Krauthammer says on the subject</a>





Charlie Gibson's Gaffe



By Charles Krauthammer

Saturday, September 13, 2008; Page A17



"At times visibly nervous . . . Ms. Palin most visibly stumbled when she was asked by Mr. Gibson if she agreed with the Bush doctrine. Ms. Palin did not seem to know what he was talking about. Mr. Gibson, sounding like an impatient teacher, informed her that it meant the right of 'anticipatory self-defense.' "



-- New York Times, Sept. 12



Informed her? Rubbish.



The New York Times got it wrong. And Charlie Gibson got it wrong.



There is no single meaning of the Bush doctrine. In fact, there have been four distinct meanings, each one succeeding another over the eight years of this administration -- and the one Charlie Gibson cited is not the one in common usage today. It is utterly different.



He asked Palin, "Do you agree with the Bush doctrine?"



She responded, quite sensibly to a question that is ambiguous, "In what respect, Charlie?"



Sensing his "gotcha" moment, Gibson refused to tell her. After making her fish for the answer, Gibson grudgingly explained to the moose-hunting rube that the Bush doctrine "is that we have the right of anticipatory self-defense."

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Wrong.



I know something about the subject because, as the Wikipedia entry on the Bush doctrine notes, I was the first to use the term. In the cover essay of the June 4, 2001, issue of the Weekly Standard entitled, "The Bush Doctrine: ABM, Kyoto, and the New American Unilateralism," I suggested that the Bush administration policies of unilaterally withdrawing from the ABM treaty and rejecting the Kyoto protocol, together with others, amounted to a radical change in foreign policy that should be called the Bush doctrine.



Then came 9/11, and that notion was immediately superseded by the advent of the war on terror. In his address to the joint session of Congress nine days after 9/11, President Bush declared: "Either you are with us or you are with the terrorists. From this day forward any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime." This "with us or against us" policy regarding terror -- first deployed against Pakistan when Secretary of State Colin Powell gave President Musharraf that seven-point ultimatum to end support for the Taliban and support our attack on Afghanistan -- became the essence of the Bush doctrine.



Until Iraq. A year later, when the Iraq war was looming, Bush offered his major justification by enunciating a doctrine of preemptive war. This is the one Charlie Gibson thinks is the Bush doctrine.



It's not. It's the third in a series and was superseded by the fourth and current definition of the Bush doctrine, the most sweeping formulation of the Bush approach to foreign policy and the one that most clearly and distinctively defines the Bush years: the idea that the fundamental mission of American foreign policy is to spread democracy throughout the world. It was most dramatically enunciated in Bush's second inaugural address: "The survival of liberty in our land increasingly depends on the success of liberty in other lands. The best hope for peace in our world is the expansion of freedom in all the world."

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This declaration of a sweeping, universal American freedom agenda was consciously meant to echo John Kennedy's pledge in his inaugural address that the United States "shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty." It draws also from the Truman doctrine of March 1947 and from Wilson's 14 points.



If I were in any public foreign policy debate today, and my adversary were to raise the Bush doctrine, both I and the audience would assume -- unless my interlocutor annotated the reference otherwise -- that he was speaking about the grandly proclaimed (and widely attacked) freedom agenda of the Bush administration.



Not the Gibson doctrine of preemption.



Not the "with us or against us" no-neutrality-is-permitted policy of the immediate post-9/11 days.



Not the unilateralism that characterized the pre-9/11 first year of the Bush administration.



Presidential doctrines are inherently malleable and difficult to define. The only fixed "doctrines" in American history are the Monroe and the Truman doctrines which come out of single presidential statements during administrations where there were few other contradictory or conflicting foreign policy crosscurrents.



Such is not the case with the Bush doctrine.



Yes, Sarah Palin didn't know what it is. But neither does Charlie Gibson. And at least she didn't pretend to know -- while he looked down his nose and over his glasses with weary disdain, sighing and "sounding like an impatient teacher," as the Times noted. In doing so, he captured perfectly the establishment snobbery and intellectual condescension that has characterized the chattering classes' reaction to the mother of five who presumes to play on their stage.
 
[quote author="CK" date=1221287234]All of you political junkies are thinking way too deep on the Palin issue. You need to start thinking like the average voter does when assessing her impact on how they will vote. Let me give you some perspective.....Below is an actual conversation I had with my football watching buddy Vince today, while planning our Saturday afternoon USC watching party:



CK: "So, what do you think of that Sarah Palin?"

Vince: "I love her, she's hot --- I'm voting for McCain"

CK: "But what do you think of about her ideas on...(cut off)"

Vince: "Her daughters are hot, too"

CK: "Nevermind. You want me to bring Heineken or Stella?"



We can debate the nuances of her here all day, but don't forget that Vince's vote counts the same as everyone else's.</blockquote>


Actually, if Vince and CK are California, their vote doesn't count for squat.



It's that way for roughly 44 other states too.



With the exception of 5 states, their votes don't matter either.



For all the babble on the board, the only person's vote that potentially has any impact is Lawyerliz.



The States are polarized and once again boils down to basically Ohio, Penn, and Florida. Michigan is a leaning Dem, VA is leaning Repulican. Whichever candidate take 3 of 5 is likely the winner.



So yes, if you are roughly 1 of the 3,000,000 undecided voters in those States your vote matters.
 
[quote author="Trooper" date=1221342869]Please....just no more hanging chads.</blockquote>


Unfortunately, with the race getting closer instead of turning into a runaway, the post election acrimony is likely to be 10X 2000 and 2004.



On a side note Troop, tell you cohorts to start dishing cell phone driving tickets out like candy again please. Between the return of the school year and all the idiots talking on their handhelds, the freeway is again spastic.
 
I'd have to give her a pass on defining "Bush doctrine" because I'm a political junkie and I couldn't define it either. What *does* disturb me is that she doesn't have anything cogent to say on the issue underlying the Bush Doctrine, which is when we should go to war. It means she hasn't thought much about it. Even worse, it means her cram-school tutors, presumably including McCain's top advisors don't think that's an important thing to teach her. So they don't care about it either. And *that* is really scary.
 
Her oldest son deployed to Iraq on Thursday. Do you really expect anyone to buy the line you are trying to sell now?
 
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