Palin and her grandchild

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green_cactus_IHB

green_cactus_IHB

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Although rumors abound that her current child is actually her daughter's, this nugget appeared on the wire today about her daughter's pregnancy.

This is certainly a great reflection on what happens with a child raised under Palin's "family values". If she is being hailed for them, she should also own the consequences about them.
 
I believe she is owning up to the consequences, however, how much more proof positive do we need as a society that abstinence education doesn't work?
 
That's exactly what I was referring with owning it. If we give her the benefit of the doubt, the lack of contraception resulted in a teenage pregnancy out of wedlock and a high-risk pregnancy at age 43.
 
Oddly enough, most pro-life people don't look at conception as a consequence, rather as a miracle or a blessing or a gift. That single difference in views may be the root of the abortion debate. Having the child and marrying the father is how they "own" the consequences and I doubt that all involved are anything but happy about it.
 
green_cactus said:
That's exactly what I was referring with owning it. If we give her the benefit of the doubt, the lack of contraception resulted in a teenage pregnancy out of wedlock and a high-risk pregnancy at age 43.
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GC - How do you know that Palin Sr's most recent pregnancy was the result of lack of contraception? Sometimes pregnancies occur even when contraception is used. All current contraception methods available have some percentage failure rate.

Palin appears to support access to contraception, even if her pro-life position does not allow for abortion ever - even in cases of rape and incest.
 
Nude said:
Oddly enough, most pro-life people don't look at conception as a consequence, rather as a miracle or a blessing or a gift. That single difference in views may be the root of the abortion debate. Having the child and marrying the father is how they "own" the consequences and I doubt that all involved are anything but happy about it.
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You've got to be kidding me. How can you possibly think that ALL involved are ANYTHING BUT HAPPY about it? I don't know anyone who would be only happy that their 17 year old daughter was pregnant. Sure, they may have accepted it and learned to be happy about the birth of a new grandchild but please don't pretend that they are thrilled.
 
tmare said:
Nude said:
Oddly enough, most pro-life people don't look at conception as a consequence, rather as a miracle or a blessing or a gift. That single difference in views may be the root of the abortion debate. Having the child and marrying the father is how they "own" the consequences and I doubt that all involved are anything but happy about it.
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You've got to be kidding me. How can you possibly think that ALL involved are ANYTHING BUT HAPPY about it? I don't know anyone who would be only happy that their 17 year old daughter was pregnant. Sure, they may have accepted it and learned to be happy about the birth of a new grandchild but please don't pretend that they are thrilled.
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Your limited experience equals expert knowledge? Really? Do you offer any proof that they were anything other than happy? Considering that Sarah Palin married her high-school sweetheart and had 5 kids with him, I don't consider it unlikely that they are happy for their daughter and her fiance. Is it possible the parents would prefer they waited at least a year? Sure. But nothing in her background or public record makes me think she is unhappy about it.
 
Read Obama's comments on the matter. It is truly refreshing to see him take the high road. It is painfully obvious that the Republicans would not have done the same. James Dobson is now defending her, which is actually nice even though he probably would not have done the same for a Democrat. I would love to listen to Obama and not comment on this matter, but isn't this the party that prides itself on imposing it's own family values onto the rest of us? Now when it's their families, we are supposed to shut up. It is also interesting that many people would like to blame the Obama campaign for starting all of this when in fact, it is a very different world we live in now. The media goes after a story no matter what, it's money, not politics that runs the media machine and a story like this cannot be passed up.
 
Ok, let's have everyone chime in on the matter since you think I have limited experience. I want to hear from all of the people that were nothing but happy when their teenage daughter got pregnant. Please, I want to hear from all of the people that are just hoping and waiting for their teenage daughters to get pregnant. Better start a new thread because I'm sure there are so many of you out there.
 
At least one of her kids is old enough not to need much raising, but

in the event that McC and Palin do win, she's not going to have the

time to see her kids or grandkid much, and that would certainly be

true of a man too. If she succeeds him she will have virtually no time

to take care of the kids, and I wouldn't expect her to. She will have

to spend all her time catching up on foreign affairs issues.

I personally would be PO-ed if she spend time with kids rather than

learn foreign policy. She'd be the prez, for heaven's sake. Her family

would be expected to make sacrifices. the country is more important.

By definition she wouldn't be family centered.

I wonder if McC really knew. . .

Frankly, I wonder about her judgment. She knows she doesn't know

about foreign policy. Why did she accept this? Nobody can get a good

grasp of foreign policy while campaigning, in the pitiful amount of time

between now and election day.

'Course, she couldn't be worse than Bush. . .
 
While I can't speak for Tmare, I interpreted her comments to mean that this situation highlights the uncomfortable contradictions of some conservatives where premarital sex is bad, but a pregnancy resulting from any act of sex is a miracle, blessing, or gift.
 
tmare said:
Read Obama's comments on the matter. It is truly refreshing to see him take the high road. It is painfully obvious that the Republicans would not have done the same. James Dobson is now defending her, which is actually nice even though he probably would not have done the same for a Democrat. I would love to listen to Obama and not comment on this matter, but isn't this the party that prides itself on imposing it's own family values onto the rest of us? Now when it's their families, we are supposed to shut up. It is also interesting that many people would like to blame the Obama campaign for starting all of this when in fact, it is a very different world we live in now. The media goes after a story no matter what, it's money, not politics that runs the media machine and a story like this cannot be passed up.
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Tmare,

She was J. Dobson's choice! Of course he's going to support her. there is an interesting discussion going on regarding palin/dobson's religious justifications for religious take over of our country/constitutioin/politics: http://orangejuiceblog.com/2008/09/dominionism-sarah-palin-the-christian-taliban/
 
I think it's interesting that people use Palin's daughter as "proof" that teaching abstinence doesn't work. I was raised in a family in which abstinence was taught to be "the way things work best", as was my wife. It worked out well for both of us. I have multiple friends who had the same upbringing and also waited for marriage (or are still waiting). To say that abstinence "doesn't work" based on specific examples such as Palin's daughter is, I think, unfortunate and misleading. Abstinence is foolproof. Humans and their sexuality are, sadly, not perfect.

By the way, how can one be "pro-life" and still support the death penalty? Are there any candidates out there that are pro-life in all senses?
 
tmare said:
Ok, let's have everyone chime in on the matter since you think I have limited experience. I want to hear from all of the people that were nothing but happy when their teenage daughter got pregnant. Please, I want to hear from all of the people that are just hoping and waiting for their teenage daughters to get pregnant. Better start a new thread because I'm sure there are so many of you out there.
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I've been forcing some really thin edges and even I can't go there. You may think I'm some wacked out political hack from my behavior here over the past couple of days, but in reality I'm somebody who's pretty conservative and just mortified at the whole Republican 'about face' regarding that whole "Getting married before you fabricate babies" thing.

Strom said:
By the way, how can one be "pro-life" and still support the death penalty? Are there any candidates out there that are pro-life in all senses?
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If they are Catholic (I am) there is no other option. However, from a pragmatic standpoint, it's a quandry. Most Republicans are pro death penalty and against abortion. Most dems are against the death penalty and pro-CHOICE. It's a problem.
 
Strom said:
I think it's interesting that people use Palin's daughter as "proof" that teaching abstinence doesn't work. I was raised in a family in which abstinence was taught to be "the way things work best", as was my wife. It worked out well for both of us. I have multiple friends who had the same upbringing and also waited for marriage (or are still waiting). To say that abstinence "doesn't work" based on specific examples such as Palin's daughter is, I think, unfortunate and misleading. Abstinence is foolproof. Humans and their sexuality are, sadly, not perfect.
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While abstinence may be foolproof, it can only be implemented by people who, as you have noted, are not perfect. I don't have any problem with teaching abstinence as an option, but to only teach that (and not sex ed or about contraception) strikes me as wishful thinking.

Strom said:
By the way, how can one be "pro-life" and still support the death penalty? Are there any candidates out there that are pro-life in all senses?
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I think Bob Casey of PA might be one. He is a pro life Dem, and I believe, a Catholic.
 
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