Pacifica San Juan

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Laing_Lies_IHB

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<p>Anyone of you guys purchased or are interested in purchasing in Pacifica San Juan? John Laing Homes has two communities there - Belle Cliff and Blue Harbor, and K. Hovanian has one community opening up soon - Coastline.</p>

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Nice homes. But they are priced at the upper end of the market. Especially those with ocean views which are gorgeous. I think you can see the city lights of SJC and Dana Point and DP Harbor. Ocean views commanded a premium of $400k vs non-ocean views last time I looked earlier in the year.
 
<p>If I had $1.5m burning a hole in my pocket, I'd certainly consider an ocean view home at Belle Cliff before a 73 freeway view home in Turtle Ridge (and what's sad is the TR home would probably cost even more than that).</p>

<p>I'm also curious as to the meaning behind the Laing_Lies handle...what did Laing lie about?</p>
 
<p>Ask any Laing service representative and they'll gladly annouce that they're the JD Power #1 ranked new home builder for customer service and satisfaction. However, they're all about service and satisfaction for their "VIP" buyers only, AKA employees.</p>

<p>Us regular buyers, who've waited years on an interest list and who are paying full price are not offered the same service and options as employees - "VIP buyers" who merely just walk into the first spot in line and get to purchase the home at a discounted price.</p>
 
<p>IMO, these SJC homes are going to be difficult resales unless you have the ocean view. The HOA (like some areas of Ladera Ranch) is close to $500 / month.</p>

<p>Personally, as a home buyer, that would have me running away screaming.</p>
 
<p>Laing_Lies -- which community did you wait years on an interest list for? I've dealt with Laing and have had a generally pleasant experience, though they did admit that certain of their homes (like the models) are first offered to their employees and then to the general public. However, I would seriously doubt that most Laing employees would be able to afford one of the homes in Pacifica San Juan, unless they worked for Laing in an executive position. </p>

<p>oc-c -- essentially the high HOAs amount to paying a roughly $75,000 premium over a comparable house with no HOAs (that's based on a 7% interest rate). I have not found any new construction neighborhoods in OC with HOAs of less than $250 a month, so it is more like paying a $36,000 premium over a comparable new home. That may or may not be worth it to a purchaser on resale, but if they want to live in Pacifica, then that's unfortunately one of the costs. BTW, I felt the same way about the ocean view, but when I computed the cost of some of the non-ocean view homes on a square footage basis, they are actually reasonable (roughly $330/sq. ft.) when compared with places like Ladera and Irvine (where the norm seems to be upwards of $400/sq. ft.).</p>

<p>I used to live in a condo, which I bought back in 2000. The HOAs were $150 back then, and ever since then they've been on a consistent upward trend. I found out that last month they hit $300. I think a lot of SoCalers have gotten used to high HOAs. It's unfortunate, because I don't think it truly costs that much to maintain some common area landscaping, a pool and a gate. I think the real culprit is the contracted management company (PCM in my case). But until the homeowners show that they're unwilling to pay, they will grumble and moan and continue to write the check every month. I consider myself more vigilant than average but it still hasn't reached the point where I've considered running for a board seat (not enough time) or petitioning to get rid of the management company.</p>

<p>Anecdotally, I've lived in CDM for 4 years and have yet to hear of a lawsuit by or against one of our neighbors, but when I was in an HOA maintained neighborhood, lawsuits against the HOA were common, and we all paid for them through higher HOA fees. Pretty ridiculous.</p>
 
<p>Reason - sorry... didn't mean waited years for the home to be built.</p>

<p>I meant waiting years as in the time from initially joining the interest list. I've been looking for a new construction home/watching prices for several years now. So, I initially joined the Pacifica San Juan interest list probably 18 months ago. I know that the people who bought in the first Phase for Belle Cliff were probably on the list closer to two years. These days I think that it's not unheard of for buyers to wait a few years on an interest list before being able to purchase the home. For example, I've been on the Brightwater list for over a year now. Same with the Marblehead on the Coast list.</p>
 
<p>I know someone who joined the Tustin air base list four years ago. Or at least was now that Shea is taking over. They just started some of the infastructure let alone break ground for a home.</p>
 
Laing_Lies -- you're probably on the wrong list. There's an interest list for Pacifica San Juan that's maintained by the developer (SunCal). If you went to the developer's website and signed up, you're on that list, which only means they send you a bunch of info. about the communities coming to Pacifica, but it doesn't put you in line to actually buy a house. For that, you need to be on the builder's list, which you can get on by signing up on the builder's website or walking into the sales office. Each builder has a different list for each community they are building, so for Laing, there are two lists, one for Belle Cliff and another for Blue Harbor. Regardless, since the market is slow you really don't even have to have list priority to buy right now. Both of those developments have a handful of available homes, and I imagine inventory will continue to creep upwards as more phases are released.
 
BTW, another thing I was told by the builder is that they run your credit and pre-qualify you, and if you are better qualified than someone else, you will get list priority over them (for example, if you can show them a financial statement that makes it evident you are non-contingent buyer -- i.e., you don't need to sell your current home in order to buy -- then you get priority over the contingent buyers). The builder wants to make sure they close as many contracts as they can and don't want people falling out of escrow.
 
<p>Marty -</p>

<p>Thank you for the information - you're right about all of it!</p>

<p>I was on the Laing interest list for over a year - they told me about 18 months. I actually was able to purchase in one of the early phases. :) Overall, I've been happy with my decision to purchase there regardless of the high HOA and Mello-Roos. You're right, you really cannot find any development in Orange County these days with a low HOA and without Mello-Roos. The Brightwater project in Huntington Beach will not have Mello-Roos, but they appear to be way overpriced. Their website suggests that prices will start in the low to mid $1Millions for homes in the high 1000 to low 2000 square feet! The larger homes (3000+ square feet) will start in the $2Millions!</p>

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<p>Marty - "I have not found any new construction neighborhoods in OC with HOAs of less than $250 a month"</p>

<p>Just from memory, Talega's HOA is $170 a month. S&S has some new homes left in San Joaguin Hills of Laguna Niguel with <$250 HOA, as well.</p>

<p>"essentially the high HOAs amount to paying a roughly $75,000 premium over a comparable house with no HOAs (that's based on a 7% interest rate). "</p>

<p>I can't argue with your math. That is correct and exactly what I told my wife earlier in the year when we looked at the homes. But the shock value will not be a plus when one puts their home on the market. Much like builders offering incentives, they could slash those prices off the bat but among other factors there is the consumer psychology behind it. And of course, there is that when the house is paid off, the HOA is still there.</p>

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<p>I didn't know that about Talega. Is that the same across all of the Talega communities, or is that a master HOA and then there are sub-HOAs based on the specific tract? I assume that includes community pool? Do you know if the golf course is public or limited to Talegans?</p>

<p>I've never heard of S&S. Are those the homes next to the 73 as you're driving down past the La Paz exit? There's a new community down there about 20 feet from the freeway. I'd hate to be in the one on the end.</p>

<p>I'm just hoping that Mello-Roos really is temporary (even if it be 20 years temporary). I have a feeling that, like the toll roads, whoever is behind the curtain spending the money will find a justification for keeping the spigot turned on well past the planned termination date.</p>
 
<p>I also looked at some of the S&S homes - well they were detached townhomes - called Cornerstone.</p>

<p>No Mello-Roos and in Laguna Niguel. Very nice and a good price. But I just thought that instead of paying $750K for a townhome of about mid-2000 square feet, I'd rather pay a few more $100K's and get a much larger house with a yard.</p>

<p>I also looked extensively in Talega. I liked a lot of their homes. My problem was that I was never able to get into one of the first Phases in any development there - because I hadn't been on their interest lists since the beginning. Of course, as others have mentioned, I can simply walk into their sales offices these days and buy the leftover inventory, which every community has some of. But, I didn't want to purchase in a later Phase when the prices have already gone up a little bit from the first or second Phases. One of the main appeals to me regarding Belle Cliff was that it was the first community in Pacifica San Juan's master-planned community, which is supposed to have 7 communities. And, I was surprised by how reasonable they priced their homes in the earlier (first and second) Phases. Even currently, their prices are reasonable. I'm just not particularly happy with the way they blatantly offer favors to their employee "VIP" purchasers.</p>
 
<p>Marty - I believe the HOA is the same across all of Talega. When you purchase a home, however, whether new or resale, there is also a one-time "Talega lifestyle fee" of around $1,500. It includes access to all the pools, all activities (ie. summer & easter catered events), and a Talega shuttle to the beach in the summer. I'm not sure about the golf course.</p>

<p>S&S is a division of Shapell. We looked at Mariposa. It is by the 73 and between Oso and Crown Valley if coming from the I-5.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.shapell.com/ss/find/mariposa/overview.cfm">http://www.shapell.com/ss/find/mariposa/overview.cfm</a>. </p>

<p><img alt="" src="http://www.shapell.com/ss/images/map_mariposa.gif" /></p>

<p>Laing - In Talega, only the larger tracts are left, ie. Ravenna, Stella Mare. They are all 3000+ sqft. But the prices are the same as their initial phases at this point for the communities because of the market. And they are adding incentives. Heck, with standing inventory, you can probably get a price <strong><em>below </em></strong>even the first phase. </p>

<p>Why, may I ask, are you so into getting the first or second phase only?</p>

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<p>Oc-conservative:</p>

<p>Well, I just assumed that prices do go up from their initial starting. The prices at Belle Cliff have increased 10-20K per new Phase. They're holding firm about offering incentives and lowering prices.</p>
 
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