Orange County Economy Questions

S

seancs14_IHB

New member
First, a little appreciation. I have been reading IHB for about 8 months now and it has been a great resource for me. Thanks to all the regular contributors. I really have enjoyed all your expertise. I remember reading mortgage ads in the LA times in 03-06 while visiting my parents and thinking how unsustainable and ridiculous the prices were.



I grew up in LA, but haven't lived in CA for about 11 years, since I graduated high school. I am in law school now at a good school and my wife and I would like to return to So. Cal. once I graduate, but we have a couple concerns I was hoping to get some insight on. Most large law firms hire summer interns in the fall after the first year of law school. The firm you intern at is the firm you generally end up working at, so we pretty much need to decide where we want to end up this fall.



We really like Orange County in general and have family there, so it is high on the list of our options. I don't want to work in downtown LA, so Orange County (or SD) is pretty much the main choice. I would consider Century City, but it is even more expensive to live anywhere with a reasonable commute than ORange County and my wife and I would prefer somewhere a little more easy-going and quiet than LA's westside or Santa Monica.



My questions are about Orange County's economy. It seems like the main industries are financial services, housing, and some biotech. there doesn't seem to be much else other than that. we're also considering Dallas and their economy seems so muchmore diverse and stronger, even excluding the current economic conditions. Dallas County's population is around 2.4mil (which exludes Fort Worth adn a lot of suburbs) and Orange Countys is around 3mil. Yet, a quick look on wikipedia on the number of companies based in each place is very different.



<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Companies_based_in_Orange_County,_California">Companies based in Orange County</a>



<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_in_Dallas">Companies based just in the City of Dallas</a>. This excludes a lot of companies in the Dallas area, like Exxon and Frito Lay.



I realize Dallas overall is quite a bit larger, but it still seems like there aren't that many companies in Orange County and LA is too far away to really count companies based there since you can't realistically make that commute.



Where does everyone in Orange County work? Are there a lot more small business or are there large offices of companies that are not based in Orange County?



Lawyers are totally reliant on the existance of other companies for work, so a diverse economy would seem important. If a few industries get hammered, say hypothetically financial services and housing, then lawyers get hit doubly-hard. I want to do corporate/transactional work, so this is a big concern. Given the California premium of far higher taxes and higher housing costs (even after everything drops), a volatile legal market may just tip the scales away from moving back.



Any insight on this would be greatly appreciated, especially those that know the Orange County legal market or Dallas.
 
[quote author="Sanchez" date=1247177431]First, a little appreciation. I have been reading IHB for about 8 months now and it has been a great resource for me. Thanks to all the regular contributors. I really have enjoyed all your expertise. I remember reading mortgage ads in the LA times in 03-06 while visiting my parents and thinking how unsustainable and ridiculous the prices were.



I grew up in LA, but haven't lived in CA for about 11 years, since I graduated high school. I am in law school now at a good school and my wife and I would like to return to So. Cal. once I graduate, but we have a couple concerns I was hoping to get some insight on. Most large law firms hire summer interns in the fall after the first year of law school. The firm you intern at is the firm you generally end up working at, so we pretty much need to decide where we want to end up this fall.



We really like Orange County in general and have family there, so it is high on the list of our options. I don't want to work in downtown LA, so Orange County (or SD) is pretty much the main choice. I would consider Century City, but it is even more expensive to live anywhere with a reasonable commute than ORange County and my wife and I would prefer somewhere a little more easy-going and quiet than LA's westside or Santa Monica.



My questions are about Orange County's economy. It seems like the main industries are financial services, housing, and some biotech. there doesn't seem to be much else other than that. we're also considering Dallas and their economy seems so muchmore diverse and stronger, even excluding the current economic conditions. Dallas County's population is around 2.4mil (which exludes Fort Worth adn a lot of suburbs) and Orange Countys is around 3mil. Yet, a quick look on wikipedia on the number of companies based in each place is very different.



<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Companies_based_in_Orange_County,_California">Companies based in Orange County</a>



<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_in_Dallas">Companies based just in the City of Dallas</a>. This excludes a lot of companies in the Dallas area, like Exxon and Frito Lay.



I realize Dallas overall is quite a bit larger, but it still seems like there aren't that many companies in Orange County and LA is too far away to really count companies based there since you can't realistically make that commute.



Where does everyone in Orange County work? Are there a lot more small business or are there large offices of companies that are not based in Orange County?



Lawyers are totally reliant on the existance of other companies for work, so a diverse economy would seem important. If a few industries get hammered, say hypothetically financial services and housing, then lawyers get hit doubly-hard. I want to do corporate/transactional work, so this is a big concern. Given the California premium of far higher taxes and higher housing costs (even after everything drops), a volatile legal market may just tip the scales away from moving back.



Any insight on this would be greatly appreciated, especially those that know the Orange County legal market or Dallas.</blockquote>


I worked in Los Angeles in the 1990s as corporation after corporation moved their headquarters. Many were mergers where the acquiring company was somewhere else. Security Pacific in Los Angeles was bought by BofA in San Francisco. Many of the defense contractors moved. Except for Disney, many of the studios were purchased by companies based elsewhere.



There are an assortment of reasons why so few corporate headquarters are in LA. There are a few in surrounding cities. The City of LA's corporate tax structure is part of the problem. Some corporate lawyers that I know well bemoan the "poor quality labor pool". LA has a large portion of its population for which English is not their native language, and they do not speak it well even now. This is one of two surprising differences between Los Angeles and Dallas relating to immigration. People who immigrate to Dallas are more likely to learn to speak English well, and to become citizens. As you might expect, the law is a precise art, and having the very expensive help (partners) editing the work of those without law degrees is not a good use of their time.



The LA/OC law firms had another complaint. Lots of native English speakers who wrote well really wanted to do something else. They were working on a movie script in their spare time, for example. You don't hear that complaint much in Dallas.



While I haven't yet found a data source on the topic, it's my impression that the average professional person stays with the same employer longer in Dallas.



If you are graduating soon, be careful about California. I know a number of PARTNERS, yes partners in law firms who were laid off in CA. This problem doesn't seem as prominent in TX. You might want to check abovethelaw or law.com for some of the layoff lists,http://www.law.com/jsp/tal/PubArticleTAL.jsp?id=1202425647706#orr



I recently worked on a project with an attorney who was only getting paid if the client obtained next round venture funding. I suspect his firm was doing that because they didn't have as much of their usual clients.



Since I work with a lot of attorneys LA, OC, Dallas, SF, and NY, feel free to ask more questions.
 
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1247216125]Good response MR (in before the edit!).</blockquote>


For some reason, I didn't even get a chance to write anything without editing. It just posted the quote.
 
[quote author="MalibuRenter" date=1247216484][quote author="no_vaseline" date=1247216125]Good response MR (in before the edit!).</blockquote>


For some reason, I didn't even get a chance to write anything without editing. It just posted the quote.</blockquote>
Just curious, how's the job market out in Dallas for the accounting, finance, and financial service industries? Honestly, if not for my mom living in So Cal and dad living in Las Vegas I might have moved to Dallas already.
 
[quote author="MalibuRenter" date=1247214767]



I worked in Los Angeles in the 1990s as corporation after corporation moved their headquarters. Many were mergers where the acquiring company was somewhere else. Security Pacific in Los Angeles was bought by BofA in San Francisco. Many of the defense contractors moved. Except for Disney, many of the studios were purchased by companies based elsewhere.



There are an assortment of reasons why so few corporate headquarters are in LA. There are a few in surrounding cities. The City of LA's corporate tax structure is part of the problem. Some corporate lawyers that I know well bemoan the "poor quality labor pool". LA has a large portion of its population for which English is not their native language, and they do not speak it well even now. This is one of two surprising differences between Los Angeles and Dallas relating to immigration. People who immigrate to Dallas are more likely to learn to speak English well, and to become citizens. As you might expect, the law is a precise art, and having the very expensive help (partners) editing the work of those without law degrees is not a good use of their time.



The LA/OC law firms had another complaint. Lots of native English speakers who wrote well really wanted to do something else. They were working on a movie script in their spare time, for example. You don't hear that complaint much in Dallas.



While I haven't yet found a data source on the topic, it's my impression that the average professional person stays with the same employer longer in Dallas.



If you are graduating soon, be careful about California. I know a number of PARTNERS, yes partners in law firms who were laid off in CA. This problem doesn't seem as prominent in TX. You might want to check abovethelaw or law.com for some of the layoff lists,http://www.law.com/jsp/tal/PubArticleTAL.jsp?id=1202425647706#orr



I recently worked on a project with an attorney who was only getting paid if the client obtained next round venture funding. I suspect his firm was doing that because they didn't have as much of their usual clients.



Since I work with a lot of attorneys LA, OC, Dallas, SF, and NY, feel free to ask more questions.</blockquote>


Ya, I've heard about even partners getting laid off. I try to limit my abovethelaw intake, since it does seem to be layoff after layoff.



I do get the feeling that lawyers at firms in Dallas are a little more relaxed, in the sense that work isn't the only thing they do. Have you noticed that at all?



My wife has never really spent any time in Dallas, so we are going in a few weeks for me to try and meet with some firms and for her to get a feel for the city.
 
[quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1247217097][quote author="MalibuRenter" date=1247216484][quote author="no_vaseline" date=1247216125]Good response MR (in before the edit!).</blockquote>


For some reason, I didn't even get a chance to write anything without editing. It just posted the quote.</blockquote>
Just curious, how's the job market out in Dallas for the accounting, finance, and financial service industries? Honestly, if not for my mom living in So Cal and dad living in Las Vegas I might have moved to Dallas already.</blockquote>


The market is ok here, which is better than most other places. I have been surprised at the number of people I know who have found jobs in finance in the past 2-3 months.



If you've read many of my posts on the main blog, I have become increasingly worried about CA. The budget crisis is going to cause some real problems, both short term and long term. I can work from either place for the same salary. That money goes much further here.
 
[quote author="Sanchez" date=1247219933][quote author="MalibuRenter" date=1247214767]



I worked in Los Angeles in the 1990s as corporation after corporation moved their headquarters. Many were mergers where the acquiring company was somewhere else. Security Pacific in Los Angeles was bought by BofA in San Francisco. Many of the defense contractors moved. Except for Disney, many of the studios were purchased by companies based elsewhere.



There are an assortment of reasons why so few corporate headquarters are in LA. There are a few in surrounding cities. The City of LA's corporate tax structure is part of the problem. Some corporate lawyers that I know well bemoan the "poor quality labor pool". LA has a large portion of its population for which English is not their native language, and they do not speak it well even now. This is one of two surprising differences between Los Angeles and Dallas relating to immigration. People who immigrate to Dallas are more likely to learn to speak English well, and to become citizens. As you might expect, the law is a precise art, and having the very expensive help (partners) editing the work of those without law degrees is not a good use of their time.



The LA/OC law firms had another complaint. Lots of native English speakers who wrote well really wanted to do something else. They were working on a movie script in their spare time, for example. You don't hear that complaint much in Dallas.



While I haven't yet found a data source on the topic, it's my impression that the average professional person stays with the same employer longer in Dallas.



If you are graduating soon, be careful about California. I know a number of PARTNERS, yes partners in law firms who were laid off in CA. This problem doesn't seem as prominent in TX. You might want to check abovethelaw or law.com for some of the layoff lists,http://www.law.com/jsp/tal/PubArticleTAL.jsp?id=1202425647706#orr



I recently worked on a project with an attorney who was only getting paid if the client obtained next round venture funding. I suspect his firm was doing that because they didn't have as much of their usual clients.



Since I work with a lot of attorneys LA, OC, Dallas, SF, and NY, feel free to ask more questions.</blockquote>


Ya, I've heard about even partners getting laid off. I try to limit my abovethelaw intake, since it does seem to be layoff after layoff.



I do get the feeling that lawyers at firms in Dallas are a little more relaxed, in the sense that work isn't the only thing they do. Have you noticed that at all?



My wife has never really spent any time in Dallas, so we are going in a few weeks for me to try and meet with some firms and for her to get a feel for the city.</blockquote>


If you come here, I can give you a few recommendations. How long will you be in town? What types of things do you want to try? Our neighbors and people at work are very helpful.
 
[quote author="MalibuRenter" date=1247223195][quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1247217097][quote author="MalibuRenter" date=1247216484][quote author="no_vaseline" date=1247216125]Good response MR (in before the edit!).</blockquote>


For some reason, I didn't even get a chance to write anything without editing. It just posted the quote.</blockquote>
Just curious, how's the job market out in Dallas for the accounting, finance, and financial service industries? Honestly, if not for my mom living in So Cal and dad living in Las Vegas I might have moved to Dallas already.</blockquote>


The market is ok here, which is better than most other places. I have been surprised at the number of people I know who have found jobs in finance in the past 2-3 months.



If you've read many of my posts on the main blog, I have become increasingly worried about CA. The budget crisis is going to cause some real problems, both short term and long term. I can work from either place for the same salary. That money goes much further here.</blockquote>
I know, that's the thing that makes me nervous. No way do I get a finance/accounting job in Vegas because it's even worse for professionals out there. I'm working on getting my CPA by the next of the year which I should be able to transfer to another state without a problem and my consulting project might come to an end by the end of the year. I guess we'll see what happens.
 
[quote author="Sanchez" date=1247177431]I want to do corporate/transactional work, so this is a big concern. </blockquote>


As chance would have it, I have spoken with two different transaction attorneys in the last two weeks. One is doing well, but the other said it is very slow. This is not a boom time in corporate transactions right now because nobody can obtain financing to do anything, and there is so little demand that nobody needs to expand. That is not an environment that fosters many corporate transactions.
 
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