New house + solar panel

[qwerty]

not to mention that a lot of solar installers will probably not be around in 5 years and their support/warranties/maintenance that you paid for as part of a purchased plan may not be there.

Very good point.  So if I LEASE the solar panels does this mean I keep them for free once the installer goes out of business?  Or will they be ripping it off my roof in 5 years?

Legally speaking the leased solar panels are assets on the leasing companies books and they are the legal owners but in the event the solar company goes under I doubt the creditors would be able to remove your solar panels, the courts would probably force them to honor the lease so my guess is you will be ok. The creditors would probably work out a deal with another solar company and have some sort of revenue split arrangement or just sell the lease at a low price to induce another solar company to buy it. So in any scenario no one will be ripping out your solar panels but highly unlikely you will get a free system if your provider fails.

 

[zovall]

A great resource for solar panel discussion is:http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/

It is something I'd like to do soon as well. A number of people have posted their quotes on the forum there (here is a recent OC thread).

You can also download a huge data set that shows what systems have been installed recently in California, how much it cost, the contractor, the panel manufacturer, the inverter manufacturer, and how much:http://www.californiasolarstatistics.ca.gov/current_data_files/

 

[irvinehomeowner]

The bottom line is money.

@ZL:

What is the monthly cost for your solar panel lease?

If it's more than what you think your average elec bill is going to be... than 20 years of that doesn't make sense.

If it's less... how much less? I just don't think that if it isn't a significant savings, why go through the hassle?

It may be cool to say you have "solar" but considering you don't have a pool, you don't have an overly large home, and your bill isn't really too much north of $150 (HOA adjusted), the cost benefit eludes me.

As my brother from the same mother said... solar is NOT prime time.

 

[ZeroLot]

Not really seeing exactly why Sullivan has such good reviews though. Is it cheaper for what you get? Just better customer service?

I don't know. Supposedly it's better quality panels, more attention to detail, better customer service, and better pricing.

I'll have a better idea tomorrow after my meeting with them.

 

[bwpunch]

I'll call up IP customer service tomorrow and get an electrician out too.  My house at idle is 0.09 kW in the afternoon but once it hits 1am it goes up to 0.64 kW for no reason.  It's like I'm powering the whole street.

Just a guess - maybe they have part of HOA electricity running through your address

Got off the phone from IP rep and he thinks that's the case too.  Sounds like this isn't the first time this might have happened.  The builder electrician is coming out this week to investigate and to clear things up.  But it sounds like that is the case. 

You think the HOA will reimburse me??

Good to hear. Yeah they should reimburse you for x amount and for x months. It's unbelievable that you were paying for the HOA's electricity. Let us know - what happens.

I also notice the same issue with my electricity usage. Will need to talk to IP rep, too.  Btw, I am also at Marigold.

 

[SubSolar]

Not really seeing exactly why Sullivan has such good reviews though. Is it cheaper for what you get? Just better customer service?

I don't know. Supposedly it's better quality panels, more attention to detail, better customer service, and better pricing.

I'll have a better idea tomorrow after my meeting with them.

Anxiously await what they tell you tomorrow. I just called Sullivan and talked to a Brian. Seems very promising. He gave me some rough numbers cause obviously he needs to see my roof, direction house is facing, etc. But he said around $20k (BEFORE tax credit) for 20 panels that generate between 600-800 kwh per month depending on where you are facing. Everything is covered for 20-25 years, just need to spray the water hose on the panels 3 times a year to wipe off dirt, bird crap, etc. They also have more expensive panels that generate more so you need less panels but didn't get the pricing details of that.

 

[qwerty]

Zerolot so how did your meeting go with Sullivan - is solar ready for primetime?

 

[ZeroLot]

Zerolot so how did your meeting go with Sullivan - is solar ready for primetime?

*whew* What a day.  The IP electrician was here at the same time as Sullivan PLUS my two hungry little Zerolots.  It was a packed house.

The meeting went on for 2 hours.  Sullivan was very impressive.  They use great quality products.  They install SunPower, a great California solar manufacturer, the same that was offered in Phase 1 Options by the builder.

They are amazing at installation and use really high quality transformers/inverters, 20 year warranty with a 12 year usage and free replacement.  They can do high pitch roofs and they designed the panels very well.  SunPower gets a bit more kW than what was offered by Solar City.  So I only need 18 panels instead of 21 to get the same power.

They also took aesthetics into consideration and decided to split the panels on my roof so I get a little bit from two different roof sides.  Let me just say I was really impressed by their design.

But bottom line, their PPA is higher than Solar City. 

But if I purchased Sullivan's solar power outright, then it's totally worth my while.  The federal tax credit is 30% off the purchase price.  So if the purchase price is $30K, then I get a 10K tax credit.  Here's the catch, it's still a tax CREDIT.

With all my deductions already from escrow I may not get all 10K tax credit back.

If I had Bank of Parents, I would go with Sullivan and pay $150/month (back to parents) for 10 years and then own my system outright.  Unfortunately I don't.

I may have to see what Solar City says and go with their PPA plan and just pay 15 cents a kW.  That is still cheaper than what I'm paying with Edison.

 

[ZeroLot]

I also notice the same issue with my electricity usage. Will need to talk to IP rep, too.  Btw, I am also at Marigold.

Update on electrician.  CBR was very responsive and their electrician showed up this morning and spent 1 hour looking over all the panels in my house.  Based on his verdict, all is well.

He looked at my hourly electric bill and he agrees that something is NOT right with the usage.  However he said that's an Edison issue right now.  UGH!

I was on the phone with Edison today and he were pretty unresponsive.  They are going to forward my questions to the billing department first to have them review over why I'm paying 0.64 kW per hour from 11pm to 6am (then have it plummet to 0.13 at 7am) when the house is vacant with no appliances, furniture, or humans.  Maybe ghosts?

I requested an Edison electrician to be sent out because there might be an issue with a BAD meter but they refuse to send one out until the billing gets straightened out. 

Anyhow I had to threaten them and say I'm switching to solar if they don't hurry up and give me a reasonable response.  We'll see what happens next week.

 

[eyephone]

Zerolot so how did your meeting go with Sullivan - is solar ready for primetime?

*whew* What a day.  The IP electrician was here at the same time as Sullivan PLUS my two hungry little Zerolots.  It was a packed house.

The meeting went on for 2 hours.  Sullivan was very impressive.  They use great quality products.  They install SunPower, a great California solar manufacturer, the same that was offered in Phase 1 Options by the builder.

They are amazing at installation and use really high quality transformers/inverters, 20 year warranty with a 12 year usage and free replacement.  They can do high pitch roofs and they designed the panels very well.  SunPower gets a bit more kW than what was offered by Solar City.  So I only need 18 panels instead of 21 to get the same power.

They also took aesthetics into consideration and decided to split the panels on my roof so I get a little bit from two different roof sides.  Let me just say I was really impressed by their design.

But bottom line, their PPA is higher than Solar City. 

But if I purchased Sullivan's solar power outright, then it's totally worth my while.  The federal tax credit is 30% off the purchase price.  So if the purchase price is $30K, then I get a 10K tax credit.  Here's the catch, it's still a tax CREDIT.

With all my deductions already from escrow I may not get all 10K tax credit back.

If I had Bank of Parents, I would go with Sullivan and pay $150/month (back to parents) for 10 years and then own my system outright.  Unfortunately I don't.

I may have to see what Solar City says and go with their PPA plan and just pay 15 cents a kW.  That is still cheaper than what I'm paying with Edison.

Is there any other fee you have to pay? (Besides the 15 cents)

 

[qwerty]

Sorry to hear about the electricity - that sucks. Maybe it is the nighthawk

 

[ZeroLot]

Is there any other fee you have to pay? (Besides the 15 cents)

Just 15 cents a kW produced by the panels.  In the summer my bill to a Solar City will be higher, in the winter it will be lower.  All fees and permits will be taken care of by Solar City.

Because I took the 15 cents deal I do have to pay a max of 2.9% increase a year.

Or I can take the 18 cents flat rate for the 20 years lease.

Solar City takes all the tax rebates and my final price will be around $27K for the system.

My contract states I will produce 761 kW a month plus or minus depending on the weather.  So 761 x 0.15 is $114.15/month.  Any extra consumption by me will be billed at the Edison rates, starting at Tier 1.

I can live with that bill.  I know I can use the AC again with the Solar City panels. 

If you go with Solar City, let me know, I will split the generous rebate with you. 

 

[irvinehomeowner]

I hope you didn't sign that contract.

Have you done the OS-style breakdown costs of what it would be with Edison in winter and summer without solar?

Just doesn't sound like you are saving anything.

 

[ZeroLot]

I hope you didn't sign that contract.

Have you done the OS-style breakdown costs of what it would be with Edison in winter and summer without solar?

Just doesn't sound like you are saving anything.

No I haven't signed anything yet until the engineer comes to approve the roof and gives me the designs.

But based on kW I use the plan is fine with me.  I'd rather pay under $120/month than double that.  Even if the energy leak is detected and fixed I still use 500 kW to 800 kW in the summer.

I will probably ask for a lesser system when it's all said and done. I don't want 21 panels on my roof. 

 

[bones]

Fcbbn

 

[notTHEoc]

I hope you didn't sign that contract.

Have you done the OS-style breakdown costs of what it would be with Edison in winter and summer without solar?

Just doesn't sound like you are saving anything.

No I haven't signed anything yet until the engineer comes to approve the roof and gives me the designs.

But based on kW I use the plan is fine with me.  I'd rather pay under $120/month than double that.  Even if the energy leak is detected and fixed I still use 500 kW to 800 kW in the summer.

I will probably ask for a lesser system when it's all said and done. I don't want 21 panels on my roof.

Just guessing, but if you are at 500-800kwh in the summer and run the AC ~2-6 hours a day, you might easily be under 300kwh for 6mo of the year when you don't need AC. That bill should be <$50. Up to 400kwh or so, your bill should still be <$70 iirc.

 

[qwerty]

Zerolot - have you thought about just going without solar for the next year to see what your usage is like for a full year? i would bite the bullet and run your AC/electronics the way you would normally if cost wasnt a concern and see what your usage/costs are for a year and then you can do an apples to apples comparison.

 

[notTHEoc]

You could also pick a couple summer hours where you are active at home but didn't need the AC. SCE online tools can help you extrapolate from there. If you're under 1kwh active but without AC, you prob not using enough to need solar. Unless you just want to help save the planet for the little ZLs.

 

[ZeroLot]

I do think the knee jerk reaction to my crazy energy bill has something to do with all of this. But look at these numbers ... This is the new Edison rates as of July 2014 ...
https://www.sce.com/wps/portal/home/residential/rates/residential-plan/

The Tier 1 starts at 15 cents.  It only goes up from there.  So in theory, why would I want to pay more when I can rate lock 15 cents for all the energy I can produce?  Plus I'm saving the planet. 

Current 2014 Edison rates for my detached 3 bedroom condo is:

Tier 1 max is 285 kW ... 15 cents
Tier 2 max is 86 kW ... 19 cents
Tier 3 max is 200 kW ... 28 cents
Tier 4 ... No max ... But current rate is 32 cents per kW

 

[ZeroLot]

I do thank everyone for your suggestions. I haven't committed to anything yet but I really enjoy everyone's input.  Takes a village to figure all this stuff out.

As for the concern of a leased system, well I'll just choose to buy out the system before I sell the house.  Like Subsolar said earlier ... My house will gain a 25k value if it's a purchased system.  I'll just purchase myself out of the lease if I decide to sell.  Problem solved on the leased system.