New Homes in Woodbury East and Woodbury

[quote author="acpme" date=1255577139]Living in Irvine, OC, or suburban CA in general can skew our perception of what's normal. Size of US families has steadily decreased over the last few generations while the size of our homes has increased. Siblings sharing a bedroom - what is that a crazy concept now? I can't recall a television sitcom pre-mid 90s where the kids in the show didn't share bedrooms.



<em>According to the National Association of Home Builders, the average home size in the United States was 2,330 square feet in 2004, up from 1,400 square feet in 1970.</em>



What's amazing to me is the size of homes has gone up 66% yet people still can't manage to clear enough room in their garages to park a car. Americans no longer know what it means to live efficiently in all manners of life.</blockquote>


Thank you Acpme. I have followed your posts for so long. I commend you for your wisdom. The perception of OC from the rest of the country is not exactly good. Hollywood for years made a mockery of OC in their TV shows.
 
For the wealthy living a life of understated opulance is appropriate. I can't stand the Cribby ostentatious site bound McMansion with rock waterfall pool.



Please IHO don't tell me you had a man made rock waterfall in your previous home.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1255577001]Chasing after materialistic dream is an addiction and it will never stop. You will want more and more. After the basement home theater and wine cellar you would want the basement garages of the Joneses. I am not telling you to go live in a shack but be content with what will deliver you a good life but not an extravagant life. You are missing my point here. I am not telling you to deprive your kids and make them share a room. Having their own room is fine and they will turn out just fine. Having their own room in a 4,000-6,000 sf house with materialistic appetite at young age is too excessive.</blockquote>


My house is 1,700 sq ft, and my only child has her own room and even got to pick out her own paint colors at Dunn-Edwards when she was 5 years old. It is possible to do a very effective job of spoiling the s**t out of a child in a lot less than 4,000 sq ft.
 
My parents home is just barely over 3000 sq ft. My siblings and I all had our separate bedrooms. It was a 5 bedroom. The master suite and kids rooms along with a small library were all downstairs. Upstairs there was another master, bedroom, and bath - at least 800 sq ft on the 2nd floor. The upstairs pretty much sat empty except being used as a guestroom. Of course being an older home there was also the traditional living room (HUGE) and formal dining room which we rarely used. The breakfast nook was large enough for a 6 person table and family room was larger than most "Great" rooms in today's tracts.

Easily at least 1000 sq ft of space we never touched.



Honestly our family could have lived comfortably in 2000 sq ft. The blame should be placed on builders for the inefficient designs of today.
 
Heck, if you can afford a 4,000 sq ft house, why not buy it? Just realize it's a luxury not a neccessity. In my opinion it's overkill, but to each their own. The enviromental consequences, while real, are not signficant enough to feel guilty about, IMHO.



As for 250/sq ft a person, that's a little low but not completely unreasonable-I would say 325/sq ft for a family of four would be comfortable. For a family of four (couple plus two kids), that would be 1,000 sq ft at the minimum, 1,300/sq ft at the maximum. There are tons of 3 bedroom houses between 1,000-1,300 sq ft out here in Riverside. At the high end of that scale, you can have two full baths and seperate living and family rooms to go with the three bedrooms. The low end of that scale would probably have only one bathroom and only one living/family room, which is a bit tight. Seperate family and living rooms is nice with a family, so the kids can be in one area and the adults in the other, plus sharing a bathroom for four people is a challenge.
 
Materialism and luxury indulgence may be symptoms to fill the voids in ones upbringing. Over providing for the kids lies in the subconscious mind of the parents that did not receive enough while growing up.



Poor kids become successful in life purchasing a home in a nice suburb and give their children the very best in life, From a subconscious level there is a level of resentment toward the grand parents for falling short and not giving them the safety and the necessity for a better life.



It is a silent protest. Inviting the grand parents to their beautiful homes and displaying how wonderful their life is now compared to when they were a kid indirectly may instill a sense of guilt for the grand parents for having not provided enough.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1255576626]There is a big difference between kids having their own room in a 2,300 sf house vs kids having their own room in your previous 4,000 sf home. The 1,250 sf houses in central OC also have a separate BRs for each of the 3 kids but certainly it does not meet the 2009 lifestyle standard.

</blockquote>
Yeah... but I didn't say we needed a 4000sft home... I just said that it was nice living in one and that I can recognize the fact that people like to live in larger homes despite your claims of opulence. If I could afford to buy one, I might, but referring back to IR2, it's not just size.

<blockquote>

My 2,000 sf home is too big for my family. When we bought the beautiful yard and avocado tree the house came with it.</blockquote>
So by your own admission you are also a criminal of our supersize society. You live in not only a bigger house than we do but a bigger lot. What does your sage advice have to say about the many people on IHB who want huge lots even though their house only takes up a fraction of it... isn't that the bk ratio rule? Size does matter according to you in reference to setbacks, structural integrity and architectural aesthetics.

<blockquote>

How many do you have in the family to live in a 4,000 sf house?</blockquote>
Depending on the age of your kids, probably 5 or 6. Or 2 to 3 kids and a pair of in-laws. Remember, it's not just about having a bedroom for each but also multiple rooms for different activities. You can reference a thread from one of TMan's buyers (orgpeach?) who said how important it was that she has dedicated space for her large family get-togethers.



So your 3 lives in a bigger house/lot than my 4... mote vs. beam. I think you need to buy a 750sf house.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1255580777]Materialism and luxury indulgence may be symptoms to fill the voids in ones upbringing.</blockquote>
This is very true and I will admit to it when it comes to my wife and kids... I want them to have whatever they want... within reason.



It is a dual-edged sword... because my wife warns me about the kids getting used to getting what they want, I can already see the sense of entitlement in them. But at the same time, I want them to have stuff that I couldn't have. I temper it with them not being able to do whatever they want to do. Sure, they can get a toy at Target, but they can't jump all over the couch, talk loudly in public places or cry like a banshee if I'm not letting them do something. And I don't always say "yes"... but it pains me to see that dejected look in their eyes.



By the way, I think even geoptf is living in a bigger house than I am... hehe.
 
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1255580997][quote author="bkshopr" date=1255576626]There is a big difference between kids having their own room in a 2,300 sf house vs kids having their own room in your previous 4,000 sf home. The 1,250 sf houses in central OC also have a separate BRs for each of the 3 kids but certainly it does not meet the 2009 lifestyle standard.

</blockquote>
Yeah... but I didn't say we needed a 4000sft home... I just said that it was nice living in one and that I can recognize the fact that people like to live in larger homes despite your claims of opulence. If I could afford to buy one, I might, but referring back to IR2, it's not just size.

<blockquote>

My 2,000 sf home is too big for my family. When we bought the beautiful yard and avocado tree the house came with it.</blockquote>
So by your own admission you are also a criminal of our supersize society. You live in not only a bigger house than we do but a bigger lot. What does your sage advice have to say about the many people on IHB who want huge lots even though their house only takes up a fraction of it... isn't that the bk ratio rule? Size does matter according to you in reference to setbacks, structural integrity and architectural aesthetics.

<blockquote>

How many do you have in the family to live in a 4,000 sf house?</blockquote>
Depending on the age of your kids, probably 5 or 6. Or 2 to 3 kids and a pair of in-laws. Remember, it's not just about having a bedroom for each but also multiple rooms for different activities. You can reference a thread from one of TMan's buyers (orgpeach?) who said how important it was that she has dedicated space for her large family get-togethers.



So your 3 lives in a bigger house/lot than my 4... mote vs. beam. I think you need to buy a 750sf house.</blockquote>


If you have to live with inlaws then I see why you would need the space. My rule of 250sf for person falls withing the same family household where family members make compromises with tolerance. With inlaws then it is 2 homes under the same roof and I am afraid 4,000 sf may not be enough and especially when they are angry at you.
 
I am just as guilty in indulging in excessive house and land. I am aware of my addiction and hoping to find a rehab.



I can trade them for something in Irvine priced comparably like a detached condo.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1255580777]Materialism and luxury indulgence may be symptoms to fill the voids in ones upbringing. Over providing for the kids lies in the subconscious mind of the parents that did not receive enough while growing up.



Poor kids become successful in life purchasing a home in a nice suburb and give their children the very best in life, From a subconscious level there is a level of resentment toward the grand parents for falling short and not giving them the safety and the necessity for a better life.



It is a silent protest. Inviting the grand parents to their beautiful homes and displaying how wonderful their life is now compared to when they were a kid indirectly may instill a sense of guilt for the grand parents for having not provided enough.</blockquote>


You can always ship the grandparents to an old folks home instead, if you insist. :p
 
Hey, BK... sorry to Hi-jack,, but I've always wondered what happens to new construction, where the wood-framing is exposed to hard rain like last night... I remember some projects where the frame turned dark and moldy... great, you got uncured concrete & moldy wood! Sorry about not taking pic lately.. it's been a little cold at 7am, and we haven't been taking our walks...
 
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1255580997]

So by your own admission you are also a criminal of our supersize society. You live in not only a bigger house than we do but a bigger lot. What does your sage advice have to say about the many people on IHB who want huge lots even though their house only takes up a fraction of it... isn't that the bk ratio rule? Size does matter according to you in reference to setbacks, structural integrity and architectural aesthetics.

</blockquote>


That is correct. My parents house is way bigger than anything I would ever want to maintain for my family. It's exactly my point though, that even 3000 was too much. Maybe I was spoiled with too much space but now that I'm older and forced to live on my own means, I realize I can do with far less space while still maintaining my tastes. So I've changed teams, so to speak.



My in-laws live in a 4000 sq ft Irvine McMansion, 4 bdrms only however. Obviously newer homes have some things going for them like larger master baths and walk-in closets. Usually newer homes have one extra bath or half bath (powder) relative to older homes with equal number of bdrms. The dining room is an extension of the great room and there is no other dining area but a fairly large kitchen island. The "living room" is basically the tiny room that fits a fake fireplace and couch set near the entrance ubiquitous in all new tracts. Also common these days is the small loft/computer center area upstairs.



In comparison, the home in my earlier post had one add'l master-sized bedroom, an actual library/study room, and full-sized living room - in a third less sq footage. Actually whenever I'm visiting my in-laws I'm always thinking about where the extra space goes. The luxury master bath with separate commode room doesn't make up for that space.



The McMansion would just<em> barely</em> meet the needs of a family of four seeking a bedroom for each child. For the size and price, it's downright inexcusable that a family can't buy a real dream home in a suburbian town that still has plenty of room for growth.



Notice that everyone simply says, "kids gettin' older - need a bigger house!"

Nobody ever says, "hmm, I need a more appropriate house that meets all our needs."



It's not "smaller is better" that I'm debating - just the notion that the only solution to a problem is to supersize the portions. Maybe we're talking apples to oranges. If a family is ONLY willing to live in a post-1990 village of Irvine, then yes, I guess a bigger tract home might be the only option for a growing family.
 
[quote author="roundcorners" date=1255583338]Hey, BK... sorry to Hi-jack,, but I've always wondered what happens to new construction, where the wood-framing is exposed to hard rain like last night... I remember some projects where the frame turned dark and moldy... great, you got uncured concrete & moldy wood! Sorry about not taking pic lately.. it's been a little cold at 7am, and we haven't been taking our walks...</blockquote>


Soaked wood framing also swell and when covered up with drywall the sealed dark cavity without ventilation develops mold. As wood contracts it can loosen nails and especially on squeaky floor. Nailing wet wood also weaken the friction between wood and nail surface as the wood retract to its original size. The nail hole get bigger when it dries! The movement between nail surface and wood during the expansion and contraction compromises its frictional strength. The moisture in rain soaked woods create rust on the nail surface and weaken the frictional bond between nail and wood.



It is not recommended to build during rainy and winter months for many reasons. A home is subject to more small movements in the future. Finishes will experience more cosmetic cracks.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1255580777]Materialism and luxury indulgence may be symptoms to fill the voids in ones upbringing. Over providing for the kids lies in the subconscious mind of the parents that did not receive enough while growing up.



Poor kids become successful in life purchasing a home in a nice suburb and give their children the very best in life, From a subconscious level there is a level of resentment toward the grand parents for falling short and not giving them the safety and the necessity for a better life.



It is a silent protest. Inviting the grand parents to their beautiful homes and displaying how wonderful their life is now compared to when they were a kid indirectly may instill a sense of guilt for the grand parents for having not provided enough.</blockquote>
Argh... your edit-fu strikes again!



I repectfully disagree with your assessment here. I have zero resentment for my parents because I know they gave me everything that they could afford, even if it wasn't exactly what I wanted. I was never hungry and always had clothes on my back. They may have not been the cool clothes that all the other kids had... but they served their purpose.



For the record, my parents think I spoil my kids... but at the same time, they don't do much in helping to take care of them so it's a wash. And I like to think they are rather happy that I'm able to provide for my family and that it is because of them I have the things that I have... they don't feel guilt... they are proud.
 
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1255584294][quote author="bkshopr" date=1255580777]Materialism and luxury indulgence may be symptoms to fill the voids in ones upbringing. Over providing for the kids lies in the subconscious mind of the parents that did not receive enough while growing up.



Poor kids become successful in life purchasing a home in a nice suburb and give their children the very best in life, From a subconscious level there is a level of resentment toward the grand parents for falling short and not giving them the safety and the necessity for a better life.



It is a silent protest. Inviting the grand parents to their beautiful homes and displaying how wonderful their life is now compared to when they were a kid indirectly may instill a sense of guilt for the grand parents for having not provided enough.</blockquote>
Argh... your edit-fu strikes again!



I repectfully disagree with your assessment here. I have zero resentment for my parents because I know they gave me everything that they could afford, even if it wasn't exactly what I wanted. I was never hungry and always had clothes on my back. They may have not been the cool clothes that all the other kids had... but they served their purpose.



For the record, my parents think I spoil my kids... but at the same time, they don't do much in helping to take care of them so it's a wash. And I like to think they are rather happy that I'm able to provide for my family and that it is because of them I have the things that I have... they don't feel guilt... they are proud.</blockquote>


I am not directing that at you. It is a general comment for some population.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1255584913][quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1255584294][quote author="bkshopr" date=1255580777]Materialism and luxury indulgence may be symptoms to fill the voids in ones upbringing. Over providing for the kids lies in the subconscious mind of the parents that did not receive enough while growing up.



Poor kids become successful in life purchasing a home in a nice suburb and give their children the very best in life, From a subconscious level there is a level of resentment toward the grand parents for falling short and not giving them the safety and the necessity for a better life.



It is a silent protest. Inviting the grand parents to their beautiful homes and displaying how wonderful their life is now compared to when they were a kid indirectly may instill a sense of guilt for the grand parents for having not provided enough.</blockquote>
Argh... your edit-fu strikes again!



I repectfully disagree with your assessment here. I have zero resentment for my parents because I know they gave me everything that they could afford, even if it wasn't exactly what I wanted. I was never hungry and always had clothes on my back. They may have not been the cool clothes that all the other kids had... but they served their purpose.



For the record, my parents think I spoil my kids... but at the same time, they don't do much in helping to take care of them so it's a wash. And I like to think they are rather happy that I'm able to provide for my family and that it is because of them I have the things that I have... they don't feel guilt... they are proud.</blockquote>


I am not directing that at you. It is a general comment for some population.</blockquote>
I understand... I'm just saying that in my particular case, that does not hold true. And if my kids are able to to afford to live in Shady Canyon or Newport Coast (although I would hope they would be mindful enough with their money not to), I don't think there would be resent in either direction.



I think it's just a change in times, when I was growing up, there was never a discussion of "Where do you live?" or "How many bedrooms does your house have?" or "What was the price per sft of your home?" or "What school district do you live in?"... we were way too worried about getting mugged (fail) or not getting hit by a dodgeball (success).



I do think it's harder now but I don't think there is very much in a way of compensation for lack in their own youth. And again... although size matters... I think location matters more... or else we would be geo's neighbors in the IE... I hear we can get a 4000footer over there for less than $300k.
 
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1255585419]I think location matters more... or else we would be geo's neighbors in the IE... I hear we can get a 4000footer over there for less than $300k.</blockquote>


Not quite, but close. Best deal I could find in Riverside itself (in the desert, like in Hemet, you can do better):



<a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Riverside/18580-Hawksbury-Dr-92508/home/8165786">18580 Hawsbury</a>



18580 Hawksbury Dr

Riverside, CA 92508

Price: $349,900

Beds: 4

Baths: 3

Sq. Ft.: 3,932

$/Sq. Ft.: $89

Lot Size: 10,018 Sq. Ft.

Property Type: Detached, Single Family Residence

Stories: 2

Year Built: 2005

Community: Riverside

County: Riverside

MLS#: I09098209

Source: MRMLS

Status: Active

On Redfin: 34 days



This is a great 2 story, 4 bedroom, 3 bath home on a corner lot. Kitchen with granite counter tops, island, walk-in pantry and stainless steel appliances. Family room with fireplace. Plantation shutters throughout the house. Loft upstairs has beautiful wood flooring. Corner lot with large yard. Concrete patio in back yard.



Not a bad house, actually. It even has the coveted 3 car garage.
 
I would have mistaken this in VOC. A spanish version would look just like Northwood Pointe and Westpark. Granite countertop and wood flooring are up to par with the Irvine spec level.
 
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