Math Monkey at Trabuco Plaza

I took my 6-year-old for his first class tonight and he was the only kid in the class. So he got one-on-one attention which is great, but kind of defeats the idea of this after-school math program which is to make math all about fun and games with other kids.



It's $135 for 4 hours of class (one hour per week for four weeks) and it's not like Kumon or any other kind of intensive, drill-based learning. Basically, my kid has expressed an interest in math and I'm just trying to find ways to support and encourage this.



So if any of you guys have kindergartners or 1st graders and are looking for something to do on Tuesdays from 5:45 to 6:45pm, please do check this place out! I would love to have a routine going of a group of us hanging out while our kids play at Math Monkey (and learn math too!), then caravaning over to Chick Fil A in Woodbury for their Tuesday night "kids eat free" thing with arts and crafts, etc.
 
I can understand your apprehensive towards the drill based places like Kumon. My children go to the Kumon Center at Trabuco and Yale. I was ready to call it quits after a few months in. It is a lot of work-grading packets, taking time to go there twice a week, getting the kids to do the homework, etc. I'm sure my kids would not use fun and Kumon in the same sentence. However, I have to say it works for my kids. At first, it seemed all this math drilling was just some memorization technique. Until one day I caught my daughter doing long division in her head without ever being taught the traditional steps to tackle long division. Somewhere along the way of all that drilling she had figure out how the math work. These little discoveries have boosted my daughter's confidence and liking towards math more than anything else we have tried. I've tried the places like Math Monkey before to no avail. Math is complex and requires lots of study. Math is interesting and rewarding but fun??? I'm not sure the two go together. And I suspect that could be the reason why Math Monkey is low on students and Kumon is bursting at the seams. I'm sure the Math Monkey program works better for some students. That just hasn't been my experience.
 
It seems that these two business models target quite different populations. Kumon targets students who are either behind in skills, or whose parents want them to get ahead. On the other hand, Math Monkey suits my own requirements to a "T" - I really am not concerned about what particular skills he learns there, or even that he learns any skills at all. My son has expressed a fascination with math and my goal is to do whatever I can to support this interest by showing him that math is fun and interesting.



Perhaps in the future if I have concerns about him not keeping up with his grade level, I would consider a Kumon-type experience. Personally though, I don't subscribe to the "get ahead" philosophy. If he performs decently at grade level in the Irvine school system, I will be happy as a clam. If he goes to a Cal State level of school, rather than a Stanford, again I will be happy, as long as he is happy, has friends, is healthy, etc.



I grew up in the Northeast part of the country and, at my public high school, if you didn't go to Princeton, Yale, or Harvard, you were not considered successful. I guess my philosophy is an outcome of that elitism - I reject it. I don't subscribe to it.
 
ISM --- Agree with your thoughts above. We are going to check this out for our Kinder. She really loves math, and actually recieved an award for "excellence in math" at a school-wide assembly a couple of months ago. Her two financial analyst parents were so proud!



I'll let you know if it looks like we are going to sign her up.
 
I think your kid is a little too young for math enhancement program. For those who has kids in grade school go buy a math short cut book from the bookstore and learn math trick along with your kids so both of you will get something out of it. Any adult could use a refresher course on simple arithmetic. It is applicable for your daily life. The best thing is it will only cost $5, you can spend quality time with your kid and your kid will think that you are super smart for teaching him or her the short cut.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1236827079]I think your kid is a little too young for math enhancement program. For those who has kids in grade school go buy a math short cut book from the bookstore and learn math trick along with your kids so both of you will get something out of it. Any adult could use a refresher course on simple arithmetic. It is applicable for your daily life. The best thing is it will only cost $5, you can spend quality time with your kid and your kid will think that you are super smart for teaching him or her the short cut.</blockquote>


As usual, I think bkshopr is very insightful! My took my boy to Kumon last summer as part of his summer activities. He was 4.5 years old at the time. He knows some math at the time, as we have been using book store Kumon books. The place we went is on Lakes. It has a Jr. Kumon. He was there between 20 - 30 mins at a time (twice a week). Usually five to six kids sitting around a table with one "instructor" sitting in the middle. And he had a lot of homework which he started to dislike. Also I don't believe they teach them a lot. Because the amont of home work, I finally figured out that I am the one who is teaching him - I have to sit with him, grade him, and correct him. I went to talk to the owner about this ( in a very nice way). I was told that is their process. I pulled him out after two months.



You can buy Singapore math books, and sit with your kids yourself.
 
[quote author="irvine123" date=1236829892][quote author="bkshopr" date=1236827079]I think your kid is a little too young for math enhancement program. For those who has kids in grade school go buy a math short cut book from the bookstore and learn math trick along with your kids so both of you will get something out of it. Any adult could use a refresher course on simple arithmetic. It is applicable for your daily life. The best thing is it will only cost $5, you can spend quality time with your kid and your kid will think that you are super smart for teaching him or her the short cut.</blockquote>


As usual, I think bkshopr is very insightful! My took my boy to Kumon last summer as part of his summer activities. He was 4.5 years old at the time. He knows some math at the time, as we have been using book store Kumon books. The place we went is on Lakes. It has a Jr. Kumon. He was there between 20 - 30 mins at a time (twice a week). Usually five to six kids sitting around a table with one "instructor" sitting in the middle. And he had a lot of homework which he started to dislike. Also I don't believe they teach them a lot. Because the amont of home work, I finally figured out that I am the one who is teaching him - I have to sit with him, grade him, and correct him. I went to talk to the owner about this ( in a very nice way). I was told that is their process. I pulled him out after two months.



You can buy Singapore math books, and sit with your kids yourself.</blockquote>


I think 4 1/2 is way too young for Kumon and I agrre with your move to pulled them out 100%. I see the instructor at our facility always struggling to keep the pre-schoolers focused. My children are 9 and 11. The program has been good for them because they are at an age where they are used to completeing work on their own. The whole idea of the program is to start the children with math concepts that are easy for them and then gradually progress with their own abilities. The parents are not suppose to teach the kids how to the problems, they are suppose to figure it our for themselves. I personally like that they don't try to teach a certain method or shortcut. All of the shortcuts and methods my kids use to complete the work were develop by themselves. This is how I know they are learning something and it is not just drilling and memorization.



As far as BK's recommendation to buy books and do it yourself. Well, I wish I was that disciplined but I'm not. I suspect most parent's have this problem and hence why places like Kumon exists. I fully recognize that 80% of what I'm paying for is someone to keep on our tails.
 
<blockquote>I grew up in the Northeast part of the country and, at my public high school, if you didn't go to Princeton, Yale, or Harvard, you were not considered successful. I guess my philosophy is an outcome of that elitism - I reject it. I don't subscribe to it.</blockquote>


I find this observation interesting as I think we had the same experience but in the reverse. I've lived in Orange County all my life. My brother and I grew up in a very intellectual household. My father instilled a great love of books and learning in us. I've always felt like California was the homeland of the anti-intellectual elite.
 
This is an interesting conversation! Here's more on my views...I don't consider myself anti-intellectual. Anything but, in fact. I have an MBA and I am fanatical about spelling and grammar - ask anyone who has ever worked with me or for me! By the elitism comment I was referring to the strongly-held view in the Northeast that if you don't attend Ivy League, you might as well be a high school dropout. Don't get me wrong; my son is going to college! I just won't consider myself to be a failure as a parent if he goes to a "second tier" school.



CK - please consider taking your daughter to next Tuesday night's class from 5:45 to 6:45pm. That way we can meet :) and my son can have a classmate to play with! And it is free - I have coupons for two free sessions to give out. That goes for anyone else as well with a kindergartner or first grader.
 
I have been a math teacher for over 20 years. I have worked as both an intermediate and elementary curriculum specialist as well as a high school teacher trainer so I guess I know what I'm talking about when it comes to math education. I have to applaud all of you and your efforts to encourage your children's mathematical ability and interest. I am now entering a whole different world as I try to encourage my own children. ISM-I think you are doing the right thing by going with your child's own natural interest in math and focusing on the "fun" of math right now. Remember that math is learned everyday, in just about everything you do. The more you can make it real, the more effortless the academic, rote part of it will be for your kids. While I do not sit and have my four year write numbers, add them formally or drill him, I do try to seize every opportunity that comes up naturally for him. The past few months we have been doing "negotiations" for bedtime, I choose how many more minutes and he negotiates from there. He has learned more than, less than and in between very easily this way. All I can say, is to seize the "teachable moments" because too many of the moments in the classroom are artificial and forced. There is plenty of time for the rote memorization later and all of that is so much easier when children have developed number sense. Day after day I see kids with virtually no number sense because no one has encouraged their natural curiosity, these kids struggle in math and probably always will. Math is a day to day adventure, the more YOU see that, the more your kids will. You guys all have very lucky kids!
 
tmare, your concept of "teachable moments" are so great! I have been trying similar apporaches though I never conceptulized in the way you just did. Now I will be doing this more often! Both of my little boys "negotiate" bedtime with me EVERYDAY! We also "negotiate" number of strawberries, number of cookies, they can eat after dinner. At first, they have absolutely no concept which number is bigger, or smaller. But they figured out very quickly by how much food they have in their bowl after the "negotiation"....it is soo funny to watch them.
 
Many years ago I taught my daughter 123 by driving through neighborhoods. One car garage cute, two car garage ok but 3 car garage ugly.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1236841579]Many years ago I taught my daughter 123 by driving through neighborhoods. One car garage cute, two car garage ok but 3 car garage ugly.</blockquote>
LOL!! Wait... why am I laughing? Grrrrrrrr... you made me laugh at myself bk... you are so tricky!



Personally... although I'm okay at it... I hate math (or as we call it in the 'hood... maf). But it is useful and I admire anyone who takes the time to expand any interest their child has. Sounds like Math Monkey is the same thing as an art class... or taekwondo... or swimming lessons.



I think I will now go ingrain into my children how beautiful the power of 3 is.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1236841579]Many years ago I taught my daughter 123 by driving through neighborhoods. One car garage cute, two car garage ok but 3 car garage ugly.</blockquote>


Ahh, but the two car garage that you can't see wins, right? Is this an imaginary number bk?
 
Just a side note.... I picked up the Kumon Maze book for ages 4, 5, 6 at Target today. I brought it home and my little man sat at his little table and worked for 1 1/2 hours straight and completed all 80 pages by himself. I guess that's a ringing endorsement for some "mom time", recommended highly. Five bucks well spent.
 
[quote author="tmare" date=1236852538]Just a side note.... I picked up the Kumon Maze book for ages 4, 5, 6 at Target today. I brought it home and my little man sat at his little table and worked for 1 1/2 hours straight and completed all 80 pages by himself. I guess that's a ringing endorsement for some "mom time", recommended highly. Five bucks well spent.</blockquote>


I have all the Kumon books suitable for 2 to 6 years old. Both my boys love it! Cost you less to get all the books than one month of classroom Kumon.
 
I'm really quite shocked that a few of you can pull off tutoring your own children. Hats off to you. Without that Kumon instructor to report two times a week there is no way we would keep up the regime of doing math packets everyday. I guess you could say Kumon is our pricey math homework babysitter.
 
[quote author="Mcdonna1980" date=1236863536]I'm really quite shocked that a few of you can pull off tutoring your own children. Hats off to you. Without that Kumon instructor to report two times a week there is no way we would keep up the regime of doing math packets everyday. I guess you could say Kumon is our pricey math homework babysitter.</blockquote>


I'm sure your children are doing really well, but remember to use everyday life and the situations it brings to help be your child's math tutor. There are so many opportunities to develop your child's number sense and thus improve their ability to grasp higher level concepts in formal teaching situations. Most people just don't recognize them. Math packets are not inherently evil, however, they can become a sure fire way to destroy a child's natural love for numbers and logic. Strange to say as a math teacher, but I'd actually leave that to the math teacher. If parents would spend more time helping children believe in their own innate ability to problem solve, we'd have much less need for "math packets".
 
[quote author="Mcdonna1980" date=1236863536]I'm really quite shocked that a few of you can pull off tutoring your own children. Hats off to you. Without that Kumon instructor to report two times a week there is no way we would keep up the regime of doing math packets everyday. I guess you could say Kumon is our pricey math homework babysitter.</blockquote>


Interesting that you mentioned Kumon as "pricey math homework babysitter". That is what I told my wife weeks into our boy's Kumon's experiences. Just being fair, I haven't written off Kumon or any other math place when they get bigger. But KG, grade 1,2,3, I believe we can easlier teach and handle them ourselves via "teachable moments ( borrowed from Tmare), fun books, and computer print outs.
 
[quote author="irvine123" date=1236898115][quote author="Mcdonna1980" date=1236863536]I'm really quite shocked that a few of you can pull off tutoring your own children. Hats off to you. Without that Kumon instructor to report two times a week there is no way we would keep up the regime of doing math packets everyday. I guess you could say Kumon is our pricey math homework babysitter.</blockquote>


Interesting that you mentioned Kumon as "pricey math homework babysitter". That is what I told my wife weeks into our boy's Kumon's experiences. Just being fair, I haven't written off Kumon or any other math place when they get bigger. But KG, grade 1,2,3, I believe we can easlier teach and handle them ourselves via "teachable moments ( borrowed from Tmare), fun books, and computer print outs.</blockquote>


I agree with Tmare's recommendation to take advantage of opportune moments to connect mathematical concepts with everyday life, which we do. But I disagree with her statement that we wouldn't need places like Kumon if more parents used teachable moments. I liken the Kumon routine to learning a musical instrument. As with any skill practice is key. My kids do not think Kumon is fun. However, they don't resent math because of it. I think the reason for that is because my husband and I try to always show them the value in honing their math skills. I will concede, though, they are mature even to grasp that concept. They only started Kumon this year in 4th and 5th grade. I don't think it would have work out so well prior to this year. I can see younger children becoming resentful towards math because of all the work going to Kumon entails.
 
Back
Top