Less testing, relaxed schooling?

[cubiczirconia]

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/1...left-behind-era-education-is-more-than-tests/

While Duncan admitted testing isn?t going away completely ? it?s still necessary to have some standardized rubric for ensuring children are where they need to be ? the role of testing in the classroom should be greatly diminished. In a recent survey by the Council of the Great City Schools, researchers found that the average student will take around 112 mandatory standardized tests during their school career. With so many tests, it?s a wonder that any student makes it through with even a speck of passion for learning left. To combat this test fatigue the proposal the White House sent to Congress specified that in order to reduce ?over-testing? school districts should ensure that no more than 2 percent of classroom time is devoted to taking tests.

So, how is that going to affect the kids now? First common core introduction, now less testing..
What do you think?

Do I see more "A-plus learning centers" in the future of Irvine so that we can still keep the number of tests to a minimum of a 112  ?

 

[Kangen.Irvine]

Whatever the reform regarding testing, the school districts and the government need to be smart about change. How about training the teachers before mandating a change which has resulted in the chaos involving the Common Core. I'm sure many Irvine parents will agree when they look at the chaos created with the restructuring of math courses. Finally, pay teachers a decent wage so they do not have to look elsewhere for additional income. Focusing solely on the classroom will make teachers more effective and will benefit everyone that calls Irvine home. Don't we want our teachers who teach our students to be able to live in Irvine as well. It's better for us all as the parents and teachers need to be equally vested in our city's future.

 

[riznick]

Finally, pay teachers a decent wage so they do not have to look elsewhere for additional income. Focusing solely on the classroom will make teachers more effective and will benefit everyone that calls Irvine home. Don't we want our teachers who teach our students to be able to live in Irvine as well. It's better for us all as the parents and teachers need to be equally vested in our city's future.

Are the teachers in Irvine underpaid?  All of my kids teachers so far were getting 6 figure salaries.

See the last column (pay + benefits)http://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/school-districts/orange/irvine-unified/

 

[nosuchreality]

IUSD contract is here.http://www.iusd.org/human_resources/documents/ITAcon2014-2015_finalcontract_8-17-15FINALTOPOST.pdf

The salary schedule is on page 78.

Starting salary is $52K plus benefits.  Each year is a "step".  You also move to the right with 'units' of professional development.  So you move down and to the right over the years.  As Masters or Ph.D adds $2283.  Last year, starting salary was $49K. And Step 2 was $50K.

So if you hired last year, you would have been at $49K (provided you didn't have recognized experience elsewhere, a Master's or PhD. or additional prof dev.) and this year would move to Step 2 on the new schedule at $53K.  Note though there are big flat periods, from 6-18 years were there's no step increase and then the ramp up at the end.

A starting salary of $52K isn't bad in view of the benefits and the top salaries are pretty good.  There is a big zone though between 10-20 years were you'e got seasoned teachers making $70-$85K (assuing by year 10 they've got at least 45 units).  Not bad, not great imho.  Although this is for 183 work days versus a corporate 250 workdays.  IUSD contract also grants 10 'sick days' that carry over and accrue.  If less then 5 are used, then they get 11.

So effectively, day for day equivalents of that $70 is more like $90k.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Finally, pay teachers a decent wage so they do not have to look elsewhere for additional income. Focusing solely on the classroom will make teachers more effective and will benefit everyone that calls Irvine home. Don't we want our teachers who teach our students to be able to live in Irvine as well. It's better for us all as the parents and teachers need to be equally vested in our city's future.

Are the teachers in Irvine underpaid?  All of my kids teachers so far were getting 6 figure salaries.

See the last column (pay + benefits)http://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/school-districts/orange/irvine-unified/

1)  It's unfair to add in benefits as part as pay.  Most people get benefits but most don't know what their total benefits packages costs. 

2)  Teachers can get 6 figures if they teach for many years and have advance degrees.  Don't forget that teachers have to get an advance degree (2 years) to get a credential.

3)  IUSD underpays their teacher in comparison to other districts...IUSD teachers do get more specialized help (math, science, music).

 

[paperboyNC]

1)  It's unfair to add in benefits as part as pay.  Most people get benefits but most don't know what their total benefits packages costs. 

2)  Teachers can get 6 figures if they teach for many years and have advance degrees.  Don't forget that teachers have to get an advance degree (2 years) to get a credential.

3)  IUSD underpays their teacher in comparison to other districts...IUSD teachers do get more specialized help (math, science, music).

Agreed. My son's teacher got a base salary of $54k last year

 

[zubs]

As a business owner, I care about how much I have to pay to keep an employee.  So when an employee is paid $50,000/year in salary, my company actually has to pay $70,000/year benefits and taxes, etc.  How much an employee costs an organization may be a fairer way to compare pay.

So getting rid of an employee would save $70,000/year to the organization.

 

[riznick]

1)  It's unfair to add in benefits as part as pay.  Most people get benefits but most don't know what their total benefits packages costs. 

Yes and no...  I've yet to work at a company that offered benefit packages at that price.  That column also includes overtime pay and other bonuses.  Also, my kids teachers are still 6 figures without the benefits.

 

[Kangen.Irvine]

All I'm saying is that the parents of Irvine students are benefitting from a great education. You would only hope more people would understand that teachers within the community need to be compensated so they may live in the same community if they desire. Parents and students want their teachers to attend after school events, especially in high school. Most teachers earn their pay and anyone who questions the length of the year should sign up to try to and "raise" thirty kids at one time.

 

[zubs]

so what you're saying is.

Irvine should pay their teachers higher salaries so they can live in or close to Irvine.
while...
Santa Ana should pay their teachers lower salaries because shits cheap in the hood yo.

 

[Happiness]

Santa Ana teachers should be paid more so they can afford to buy quailty body armor and more life insurance.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

1)  It's unfair to add in benefits as part as pay.  Most people get benefits but most don't know what their total benefits packages costs. 

Yes and no...  I've yet to work at a company that offered benefit packages at that price.  That column also includes overtime pay and other bonuses.  Also, my kids teachers are still 6 figures without the benefits.

Yes but when people talk about what one earns, benefits are not usually in the discussion.  Teachers' benefits are public information so the figures are out there.

Again...teachers can get to 6 figures if they have a lot of experience and advance degrees.  Starting is around $55K...not great if you're talking about a job with an advanced degree.

 

[eyephone]

I don't buy that argument, that the reason the teachers don't stick around is because they are not paid enough.

 

[nosuchreality]

I don't buy that argument, that the reason the teachers don't stick around is because they are not paid enough.

You don't need an advance degree unless you consider a BA an advance degree. As for starting at $52k it's better than average for non STEM degrees. 

I suspect most don't stick around for a variety of reasons, the job is harder than they think, the schools and union enforce a rigid caste system hierarchy based on length of employment, and the bureaucracy is fairly nutty. Oh and the cliques, so many cliques.
It really is like an island of Survivor.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

I don't buy that argument, that the reason the teachers don't stick around is because they are not paid enough.

High pay is not just about retention, it's also about attracting talent. 

 

[Irvinecommuter]

I don't buy that argument, that the reason the teachers don't stick around is because they are not paid enough.

You don't need an advance degree unless you consider a BA an advance degree. As for starting at $52k it's better than average for non STEM degrees. 

I suspect most don't stick around for a variety of reasons, the job is harder than they think, the schools and union enforce a rigid caste system hierarchy based on length of employment, and the bureaucracy is fairly nutty. Oh and the cliques, so many cliques.
It really is like an island of Survivor.

You need to be credentialed to teach in California public schools...that's usually about 2 years of courses and student teaching.

Most non-STEM jobs also don't require you to babysit 20-30 kids for 8 hours while trying to teach them something.

There are a lot of good and bad things about teaching...but that's no different than any other jobs.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Most non-STEM jobs also don't require you to babysit 20-30 kids for 8 hours while trying to teach them something.

Well... it's not 8 hours... more like 6.

And if you're in management, it sometimes feels like you are babysitting for 8 hours trying to teach them something.

 

[Bullsback]

1)  It's unfair to add in benefits as part as pay.  Most people get benefits but most don't know what their total benefits packages costs. 

Yes and no...  I've yet to work at a company that offered benefit packages at that price.  That column also includes overtime pay and other bonuses.  Also, my kids teachers are still 6 figures without the benefits.

Yes but when people talk about what one earns, benefits are not usually in the discussion.  Teachers' benefits are public information so the figures are out there.

Again...teachers can get to 6 figures if they have a lot of experience and advance degrees.  Starting is around $55K...not great if you're talking about a job with an advanced degree.

People may not consider them, but they should. Does a company offer a huge 401K match, a pension, free healthcare...those are all things that you should factor into what I call "total" comp. Do you get 40 days of vacation vs. 10. Now you need to individually weigh the importance of these benefits to you, but you absolutely should compare. 

If Joe blow makes $70K and gets nothing else and Joe Lucky makes $70K base, but gets 8% of every dollar he makes which is put in his 401K (plus a 50% match of any of his investments...no maximum) and then gets healthcare that Joe blow pays $13,000 / yr for his insurance (family of 4). Came up with a rough estimate based upon fact that Obamacare, average family of 4 pays about 16K (if you made 120K...so I adjusted downward for a few grand for simplicity). We'll also assume Joe Blow gets 10 days of vacation and 3 sick days plus 8 holidays.  Joe lucky gets 10 holidays, 5 sick days, and 20 days of vacation.

If you don't look at total comp...you just blindly assume the same. Yet, without even factoring in the cost for the additional vacation time...Joe Lucky actually gets (whether he can use it all now or later) makes significantly more. 

Now you don't  blindly just go off of the benefit factor (as you may not actually benefit from whatever a companies cost is so when you decide between job x and job y, you pick x) but you should look at what your overall comp. 

 

[Bullsback]

I don't buy that argument, that the reason the teachers don't stick around is because they are not paid enough.

You don't need an advance degree unless you consider a BA an advance degree. As for starting at $52k it's better than average for non STEM degrees. 

I suspect most don't stick around for a variety of reasons, the job is harder than they think, the schools and union enforce a rigid caste system hierarchy based on length of employment, and the bureaucracy is fairly nutty. Oh and the cliques, so many cliques.
It really is like an island of Survivor.

It is about the same an average first year accountant makes starting at the big 4.  Now average accountant in big 4 has more upside, but they also work absurdly more hours. 

 

[Irvinecommuter]

1)  It's unfair to add in benefits as part as pay.  Most people get benefits but most don't know what their total benefits packages costs. 

Yes and no...  I've yet to work at a company that offered benefit packages at that price.  That column also includes overtime pay and other bonuses.  Also, my kids teachers are still 6 figures without the benefits.

Yes but when people talk about what one earns, benefits are not usually in the discussion.  Teachers' benefits are public information so the figures are out there.

Again...teachers can get to 6 figures if they have a lot of experience and advance degrees.  Starting is around $55K...not great if you're talking about a job with an advanced degree.

People may not consider them, but they should. Does a company offer a huge 401K match, a pension, free healthcare...those are all things that you should factor into what I call "total" comp. Do you get 40 days of vacation vs. 10. Now you need to individually weigh the importance of these benefits to you, but you absolutely should compare. 

If Joe blow makes $70K and gets nothing else and Joe Lucky makes $70K base, but gets 8% of every dollar he makes which is put in his 401K (plus a 50% match of any of his investments...no maximum) and then gets healthcare that Joe blow pays $13,000 / yr for his insurance (family of 4). Came up with a rough estimate based upon fact that Obamacare, average family of 4 pays about 16K (if you made 120K...so I adjusted downward for a few grand for simplicity). We'll also assume Joe Blow gets 10 days of vacation and 3 sick days plus 8 holidays.  Joe lucky gets 10 holidays, 5 sick days, and 20 days of vacation.

If you don't look at total comp...you just blindly assume the same. Yet, without even factoring in the cost for the additional vacation time...Joe Lucky actually gets (whether he can use it all now or later) makes significantly more. 

Now you don't  blindly just go off of the benefit factor (as you may not actually benefit from whatever a companies cost is so when you decide between job x and job y, you pick x) but you should look at what your overall comp.

Agreed but that's not what we are talking about about.  We are talking about comparing apples to apples when talking about teacher's salaries.  If we include benefits for a teacher in the discussion while comparing it to just earned income for others, it's an unfair discussion.