latest thoughts on Woodbury collection...

[akim997]

So, some time has past since the introduction of the NHC in Woodbury...  and the wife and I decided to pass on the homes in there.  We were in the neighboorhood yesterday, so we decided to drive through to see the neighboorhoods as homes are being built out and people are moving in.  Now some thoughts...

First we went to the Montecito I and Carmel area.  Back when Montecito opened, I threw my name in along with all financial information, etc.  A little bit later and the more I thought about it, I felt that Montecito was ridiculous for asking for that much for houses on an alley so I went back and pulled my app and asked for my information back.  BOY was I right!.  If anyone bought in Montecito, you can ignore what I said, and I'm sure you are happy, but the wife and I agreed we made the right decision not buying here.  The built out motorcourts look cramped and horrible.  The motorcourts look narrow, people are already parking their cars in the driveway making it look even smaller, and there are already cars parked out on the street.  Curb appeal?  What curb appeal.  You can't even really see the front of the homes from the street.  I think 20 yrs from now, people will look back on this design and say wtf were they thinking?  In one word... FAIL...  It's not a place where the kids have ample room to play, it's not a place that is friendly if you want to entertain or have guests over. 

The other bad part in this neighboorhood is (as stated before), I feel bad for all the people who poured $900K-$1MM into a beautiful Carmel home.  These houses looked nice and had a nice driveway, but your street is overrun with people from Montecito looking for parking.  It becomes an eyesore.  So how would you like to pay $1MM for a home only to have your streets look like an apartment complex?  Also, the look of the motorcourt "just doesn't seem right" in front of your Carmel home.  All in all, we left the area with a bad tase and relief that we didnt pour a crap load of resources into one of these places.  Sonoma review to follow...

 

[usctrojancpa]

You just summarized why my buyers who were in contract on a Carmel house pulled out (they couldn't be any happier they canceled their contract).  I've driven by as well and it is sad that the parking situation will be a nightmare, just like in an apartment complex. 

 

[nytoca]

Any opinions on Santa Barbara?

 

[waitin4ever]

Completely agree with the parking situation. we moved into monterey and we already feel there is shortage of parking.
Eventhough 1/2 of monterey is still to have people move in. Also a whole section of IVY is getting built right there.

Atleast I'm glad I didn't spend an extra 250K to have the same parking nightmare.

If i remember right there is exactly 58 open parking spots for monterey for a total of 76 homes.
Problem gets worse because on trash days people have to move their bins to the street and occupy
some of the parking spaces.

So, some time has past since the introduction of the NHC in Woodbury...  and the wife and I decided to pass on the homes in there.  We were in the neighboorhood yesterday, so we decided to drive through to see the neighboorhoods as homes are being built out and people are moving in.  Now some thoughts...

First we went to the Montecito I and Carmel area.  Back when Montecito opened, I threw my name in along with all financial information, etc.  A little bit later and the more I thought about it, I felt that Montecito was ridiculous for asking for that much for houses on an alley so I went back and pulled my app and asked for my information back.  BOY was I right!.  If anyone bought in Montecito, you can ignore what I said, and I'm sure you are happy, but the wife and I agreed we made the right decision not buying here.  The built out motorcourts look cramped and horrible.  The motorcourts look narrow, people are already parking their cars in the driveway making it look even smaller, and there are already cars parked out on the street.  Curb appeal?  What curb appeal.  You can't even really see the front of the homes from the street.  I think 20 yrs from now, people will look back on this design and say wtf were they thinking?  In one word... FAIL...  It's not a place where the kids have ample room to play, it's not a place that is friendly if you want to entertain or have guests over. 

The other bad part in this neighboorhood is (as stated before), I feel bad for all the people who poured $900K-$1MM into a beautiful Carmel home.  These houses looked nice and had a nice driveway, but your street is overrun with people from Montecito looking for parking.  It becomes an eyesore.  So how would you like to pay $1MM for a home only to have your streets look like an apartment complex?  Also, the look of the motorcourt "just doesn't seem right" in front of your Carmel home.  All in all, we left the area with a bad tase and relief that we didnt pour a crap load of resources into one of these places.  Sonoma review to follow...

 

[Irvine2Irvine]

Completely agree with the parking situation. we moved into monterey and we already feel there is shortage of parking.
Eventhough 1/2 of monterey is still to have people move in. Also a whole section of IVY is getting built right there.

Atleast I'm glad I didn't spend an extra 250K to have the same parking nightmare.

If i remember right there is exactly 58 open parking spots for monterey for a total of 76 homes.
Problem gets worse because on trash days people have to move their bins to the street and occupy
some of the parking spaces.

Is that 58 open parking spots including street parking or are they designated parking stalls only?

 

[locolocal]

If i remember right there is exactly 58 open parking spots for monterey for a total of 76 homes.
Problem gets worse because on trash days people have to move their bins to the street and occupy
some of the parking spaces.

Hopefully once people are moved in, they will use their garage for their car and get rid of any excess junk they don't need.  Packed garages should be reserved for homeowners in their 50s or 60s who are storing a lifetime of memories, not for excess Pottery Barn, Ikea, Pier One and Restoration Hardware decorations that don't match the current motif.

 

[waitin4ever]

The sales office gave us a sheet long time back which indicated the possible parking spots. it is not numbered or reserved.
I believe that also included the spots around the neighborhood pocket (jasmine) park. obviously the expectation is everyone
parks in their 2 car garage and the remaining 58 is for guests or some homes which may have more that 2 cars, or for people
to occasionally park outside the garage.

Completely agree with the parking situation. we moved into monterey and we already feel there is shortage of parking.
Eventhough 1/2 of monterey is still to have people move in. Also a whole section of IVY is getting built right there.

Atleast I'm glad I didn't spend an extra 250K to have the same parking nightmare.

If i remember right there is exactly 58 open parking spots for monterey for a total of 76 homes.
Problem gets worse because on trash days people have to move their bins to the street and occupy
some of the parking spaces.

Is that 58 open parking spots including street parking or are they designated parking stalls only?

 

[Irvine2Irvine]

First we went to the Montecito I and Carmel area.  Back when Montecito opened, I threw my name in along with all financial information, etc.  A little bit later and the more I thought about it, I felt that Montecito was ridiculous for asking for that much for houses on an alley so I went back and pulled my app and asked for my information back.  BOY was I right!.  If anyone bought in Montecito, you can ignore what I said, and I'm sure you are happy, but the wife and I agreed we made the right decision not buying here.  The built out motorcourts look cramped and horrible.  The motorcourts look narrow, people are already parking their cars in the driveway making it look even smaller, and there are already cars parked out on the street.  Curb appeal?  What curb appeal.  You can't even really see the front of the homes from the street.  I think 20 yrs from now, people will look back on this design and say wtf were they thinking?  In one word... FAIL...  It's not a place where the kids have ample room to play, it's not a place that is friendly if you want to entertain or have guests over. 

Thanks for your thoughts akim.  I've been pretty critical of the 2010 homes, and agree with most (all) of what you wrote.  That said, I think the biggest issue I have is the price/value points.  The homes --- while not "classic" --- are certainly functional and many have very desireable floorplans.  But they are just priced too damn high given the external configurations.  I hate Montecito at $800k.  But at $600k, I very well might have moved in on phase 1.  For me and I suspect most others, how much I like and can tolerate a home is in direct relationship to the perceived value.  No, Montecito (or any of the other 2010 collection) would never be my dream home --- but at the right price the value of being in Irvine would have trumped the shortcomings of the home. 

But it seems (at least so far) that plenty of others see the value at a different price point than I do, so I'm not even sure why I bother to type this.  As long as others see that value and TIC continues to be able to sell these homes at those price points, I guess what I think it pretty much irrelevant.  I do wonder how long the sales and price points can sustain themselves --- how deep the buyer pool is for $800k Montecito-type homes. But who knows --- I've been wrong before...

I don't like the motorcourt configuration of Montecito either.  However, expecting Montecito to sell for $600K is not realistic.
My coworker just bought a 1700+ sq ft house in West Irvine for $650K and it was right below the comp pricing.  Yes it has a traditional layout with driveway off of a regular street.  But, Montecito Plan 1 is at least 400 sq ft larger and is arguably in a more desirable neighborhood.  It's not going to sell for $50K less.  Heck, my 39 year old 1530 sq ft house in El Camino Real (old and less desirable part of Irvine) sold for $600K back in May.

I know it would be nice to buy Montecito for $600K and Sonoma for $700K and Carmel for $800K, but unfortunately, it's just not a reality.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

So sad... my fellow Irvinite has joined the dark side. The dark side of expecting more value/utility/space for your money... heh (so alluring that is).

What I find funny is that we both know Irvine is overpriced but the doubters kept saying that Irvine would drop down to the 6/7/8 level. And now that they haven't... where are those doubters? Sure they can trash the new homes all they want somewhere else but the fact remains that remarkably, all the neighborhoods sold out at these prices.

So while they can say it's TIC's Jedi mind tricks or question the sanity of the buyers... there is something to be said about the fact that almost 700 people were all "fooled" at the same time.

As for Woodbury.... it's a nice area, I like the pocket parks, the Commons, the retail center and the year-round elementary school but the floorplan in a 2500sft house for $900k just doesn't seem worth it. And like PatStar, if the Sonoma Plan 1 or 2 were more reasonably priced... I might have dove in. I still like the homes... just not the prices.

 

[nytoca]

Any opinions on Santa Barbara?

Continuing the meme on curb appeal, I think SB is better designed compared to Esplanade and some other current attached offerings, and it has excellent locations (away from busy streets but close to the school and Town Center).  But they're charging a premium for streetscape entrances, as opposed to walkway entrances.

We saw the Santa Barbara builds that have walkway entrances and it was truly sad as to how close they are to the opposite neighbors.  Windows face windows and the plans that come with the french doors avec balconies seem even closer.  Street facing are better, but they all face busy streets like Groveland, Lamplighter, City Stroll etc.  Nevertheless, everything is selling like hot cakes.  In phase 5 (two weeks ago), all the houses went in 20 seconds.  It was an interesting experience...made us feel lucky to be "getting" a home (never mind the more than half a million dollar price tag

 

[nytoca]

It was an interesting experience...made us feel lucky to be "getting" a home (never mind the more than half a million dollar price tag

So you got one?  If so, congrats...did you get a street-facing home?

Yeah, it's amazing how fast they're blowing these out, I noticed construction has already started on the last parcel.  I think the fact they're at the lowest price point to get into Woodbury (but pricing similar to WE or SE) is a big selling point.

Yup, we got one and it's street facing.  I hear that phase 6 is in full swing and going to be sold just as quickly.  Anyone else here buying at Santa Barbara?

 

[hidden]

Congrats! Did you get Plan 2 or 3? I like Santa Barbara too but looks like there's a long waiting list for it. Also, the new phase wont get built until March 2011. That's a long time to wait...

I also dropped by today and the sales agent told me that the street-facing costs 30K more...

Yup, we got one and it's street facing.  I hear that phase 6 is in full swing and going to be sold just as quickly.  Anyone else here buying at Santa Barbara?

 

[hidden]

She said that the homes for the new phase won't be ready (not built, sorry) till March 2011. It's also possible that they can't build fast enough. BTW, the next phase will be in the area where the models are. 

Congrats! Did you get Plan 2 or 3? I like Santa Barbara too but looks like there's a long waiting list for it. Also, the new phase wont get built until March 2011. That's a long time to wait...

I also dropped by today and the sales agent told me that the street-facing costs 30K more...

Yup, we got one and it's street facing.  I hear that phase 6 is in full swing and going to be sold just as quickly.  Anyone else here buying at Santa Barbara?

Did she say why it won't be built until 3/11?  At the current phase release pace, they should be done selling all 125 homes by mid-October.  Unless they just can't build that many homes fast enough...

 

[nytoca]

Congrats! Did you get Plan 2 or 3? I like Santa Barbara too but looks like there's a long waiting list for it. Also, the new phase wont get built until March 2011. That's a long time to wait...

I also dropped by today and the sales agent told me that the street-facing costs 30K more...

In phase 5 the street facing plans were ~18K higher than the walkway units.  30K seems a bit high, but perhaps phase 6 and above is different. Plan 2s are the best selling ones, then plan 1 and  a couple of plan 3s are available even from prior phase releases.

 

[akim997]

I agree with what people said regarding the value and perceived value.  Is the TRUE value of Montecito really in the $600s?  Not a chance.  You can't buy a SFR built in the 60's-70's with that square footage in other parts of OC that are less desireable for that price.  (Send me a PM and I will tell you all about it). 

For those that recall when the news started coming out about the NHC, one of the phrases used was "priced in the low $300's/ sq ft"...  That is no longer the case.  If they did provide me a value proposition, I would actually deal with the parking situation and curb appeal (or lack thereof) for Montecito as a previous poster pointed out, some of the floorplans are highly desireable. 

So to summarize, it's not that I HATE Montecito, but for what they are charging, it's absolutely ridiculous.  And for those that say "Well people bought them, so that must mean something", well, you have a lot of learning to do.  I've made a good living/choices by choosing not to follow the herd.  There was a time where people ignored high-dividend paying stocks from large well established companies to invest in and drive up the prices of tech companies with no revenue, no infrastructure, and no true customer base.  These investors (and there were millions of them), were sold on the herd mentality of "tech companies are GREAT".  These people lost billions of dollars when the dot com bubble burst.  Similarly, people didn't not learn their lesson during the real estate boom, and assumed real estate appreciation rates of 15-20% annually were here to stay.  Sadly, we all not the outcome of what happpened there.  Staying true to fundamentals did not make me the richest man on earth, but I will say that I'm better off than a lot of other people I know out there.

 

[akim997]

I got busy with life, and didn't get to post about Sonoma, so here goes. Ever since I previewed every single home and tract in the NHC, I've been particularly enamored with Sonoma 2&3.  FWIW, I'll call these TRUE SFR's given that they have actual driveways that are on actual streets.  After driving down the first street, I have to say, that I'm impressed... for Irvine.  These homes look nice, not spectacular, but nice.  Similar to what I feel about Camelia in Northwood II, and Campanile in Northpark Square.  I thought that the "Monterey" exterior choices looked pretty nice, with their 2nd story balconies.  (Monterey on plan one looks odd w/ a dummy balcony the size of the door).  What's wrong w/ plan 1???  3BR and 2BA in that size of a house just doesn't cut it anymore...  You have only one kid or no kids?  No problem.  But for those with families of 4 or more, than there is just not enough divided space.  Sure large great rooms, expansive kitchens and huge laundry rooms are great, but that and $1 will buy you a cup 'o coffee...  Almost every one I know has a den/extra space requiring the need for some extra room (we use one of our BR for our den and eliptical/fitness eqt).  My search right now only consists of 4BR or 3 "plus" (meaning loft or bonus room) in order to truly meet our desires for a home.  I'd say that I think Sonoma 2 would be my choice (Sonoma 3 is great, but is expensive). 

But even while I enjoy the floorplans, and think the community is great, I still will not buy at these current prices.  I didn't have the opportunity to, but I actually would have pulled the trigger at the introductory prices back in January.  Not so much now.  I haven't been to the sales office in a while, but at last glance, they wanted $850-880 for plan 2.  No Dice.  Being realistic, at $750-$790 they would have my ear. 

Other downsides are the $5-6K in annual Mello Roos.  Also, not that it is a worry now, but all of WB feeds to Irvine High (slightly less desireable) and Woodbury Elementary (formerly El Camino).  If I'm not mistaken, El Camino also serviced the Groves trailer park.  Being elitist?  Probably, but if we all weren't being a little bit, we probably wouldn't be looking in Irvine, am I right?

 

[locolocal]

Other downsides are the $5-6K in annual Mello Roos.  Also, not that it is a worry now, but all of WB feeds to Irvine High (slightly less desireable) and Woodbury Elementary (formerly El Camino).  If I'm not mistaken, El Camino also serviced the Groves trailer park.  Being elitist?  Probably, but if we all weren't being a little bit, we probably wouldn't be looking in Irvine, am I right?

Since The Groves is a 55+ RESIDENT OWNED Mobile Home Community, I don't think you have to worry about grandma bringing down the test scores of your child's school.

 

[nytransplant]

I'd say that I think Sonoma 2 would be my choice (Sonoma 3 is great, but is expensive). 

After you add in the conservatory for plan 2 the price of Plan 2 and Plan 3 are pretty similar

 

[Irvine2Irvine]

I'd say that I think Sonoma 2 would be my choice (Sonoma 3 is great, but is expensive). 

After you add in the conservatory for plan 2 the price of Plan 2 and Plan 3 are pretty similar

The price AND square footage become similar.  I think the plan 2 works much better with the conservatory and the plan 3 works better without it.

 

[traceimage]

Other downsides are the $5-6K in annual Mello Roos.  Also, not that it is a worry now, but all of WB feeds to Irvine High (slightly less desireable) and Woodbury Elementary (formerly El Camino).  If I'm not mistaken, El Camino also serviced the Groves trailer park.  Being elitist?  Probably, but if we all weren't being a little bit, we probably wouldn't be looking in Irvine, am I right?

Since The Groves is a 55+ RESIDENT OWNED Mobile Home Community, I don't think you have to worry about grandma bringing down the test scores of your child's school.

Speaking of The Groves, it amuses me a bit that it has a guard-gated entrance. Like there are hordes of people wanting to break into a TRAILER PARK.

And speaking of trailer parks, isn't there another one on Jeffrey around Walnut-ish? I don't know what school that feeds to...unless it is seniors-only as well.