Laguna Beach/Niguel. Schools? Culture? Will I hate it? Will my children grow up to be jerks?

J

jefa_IHB

New member
Hello all,



Quick background: I wanted to live in South Pasadena, but $600 square foot prices pissed me off and my son has asthma so the air quality was an issue. I'm living in Seattle where the prices are $300 a square foot. But prices have plummeted so much in Socal I'm considering coming back. (I work out of the house for the film biz).



I have been taking a closer look at the clean air areas, and was considering Huntington Beach ($350 a square foot), but I don't like surfer culture. I am corpse white, and get headaches from sun/sand glare. I like trees and shade. I also like a vibrant downtown area feel and walkability. I was thinking of living in Calabasas, but it is very suburbia for my tastes. I never considered the Laguna area because I assumed it would be Pacific Palisades prices. However I am seeing that Laguna Niguel is $350 a square foot and some places in Laguna Beach are $450 a square foot.



I don't know much about the area down there, but it appears to me that downtown Laguna Beach is a very awesome downtown with a lot of stuff going on (I love movies in the park). It also doesn't feel planned community to me. I used to live in Florida and the gated community thing holds little appeal to me. Laguna also seems very treed and very walkable.



I can't afford to live within walking distance to that downtown though that would fit my personality completely (I think. I really don't know the area that well).



Right now I am looking to spend $2500 a mos on rent until the housing market appears less confusing. I'd like to purchase a place under 900k eventually. I don't want to pay for private schools. I don't want to move my kids around and have them making a whole new set of friends so I'd like to establish myself in the city where I'm going to be long term so I can start meeting the neighbors, etc etc.



What are the schools really like around Laguna? It seems like it's not difficult to find a very clean nice 3 bedroom 2 bath house over 1800 square feet with a nice small yard in a safe area for $2500 a mos in Laguna Niguel. Am I right? What about Laguna Beach? Would that be possible?



Do you guys think it's unlikely that there will be houses within 1 mile of downtown Laguna Beach for under 900k that have 3 beds 2 baths with 1800 square feet that are clean and liveable as is? With room for expansion some day? (5000 square foot lot or bigger?) How big can you build on those lots anyway? My mom is going to come live with us a few years down the road, and I'd like to have her live on the property but in a small separate unit if possible. (which we'd build.)



I"m just wondering if my dream scenario is feasible. If not, it seems like Laguna Niguel is in my price point, I'm just unsure of the schools and safety. And then I'll just drive over to the downtown. Is there any other community near to Laguna Beach that I'm overlooking? What about San Clemente? I really like downtown San Juan Capistrano but I hear the schools are bad.



I also worry that we aren't going to fit in. I'm not botoxed or tan, and I don't care about gated communities. Neither do I care about dressing nicely or hosting parties. I like to hang out with scientists, architects, writers, and sarcastic people. And know-it-alls. I liked the Pasadena area because there were a lot of weird Caltech and JPL people hanging about.



Thoughts?
 
there is nothing walkable in the south inland oc cities like laguna niguel. those cities are all very cookie cutter (and sterile to some). lBasically tract homes and cookie cutter shopping malls you drive to.



aguna like all beach towns is walkable.



as far as schools go, a lot of folks get hung up on api scores and such but really as long as the school isn't terrible your child's success has more to do his parents than anything else.



Sounds like even though you don't like the surf culture so much a beach town would be right for you. I would look at laguna or even up north in Belmont Shore (Long Beach) or one of the southbay cities. You will find the artsy, etc vibe there.
 
second that.



check out belmont shore or heights in LBC



I live in downtown HB, and it isn't really so surfing dominated, and it is very walkable.



You might also consider Fullerton, which has perhaps the best downtown in 50 miles, and some very good schools.
 
Check out Old Town Orange. Great, walkable neighborhood with Chapman University in its midst. So you can catch some academic lectures or plays. And it is about as picturesque, non-cookie cutter as it gets out here.
 
The sun is much less of an issue near the beach as the majority of the summer you don't even see the sun until after noon. It is much cooler there also. I lived in HB for quite a while, I liked it a lot, but I do think that there is a surf culture (and a lack of any other really) that may bother you. Laguna is good but if the So. Pas prices bother you, I wouldn't even try there.
 
I lived in Laguna Beach for ten years and decided to move when my husband and I had kids.



What I loved about Laguna;



The most beautiful coastal town in Southern California

* living close to downtown and walking everywhere

* walking on the beach and swimming every morning

* every house is different so I could always find it when I wandered home from Las Brisas or the Marine Room :)

* a hip, funky, laid-back lifestyle

* growing tropical fruit in my back yard

* living in a rental and not having to fix the plumbing on a 1920s "charmer" (Beware of the "Laguna Beach Charmer" in the real estate ads!!!!)









What I did not like about Laguna Beach



* June gloom when the marine layer shut out the warm sun for most of the day. You can drive inland up El Toro road just a few miles and it would be 90 degrees away from the beach

* June through August when hoards of tourists invade the town, take up your parking, and make driving anywhere an odyssey. During the summer months you have to plan your travels carefully and sometimes I felt like a prisoner in my own town.

* the entitlement culture of most (not all) of the kids in town. Lots of trust fund kids and lots of drugs! Parents are giving kids lots of cash so they don't feel guilty about not being there to parent them. The playgrounds are filled with nannies - I rarely saw moms who raised their own kids. This may not be a negative to you, but it was for me. Be prepared to cough up some cash so the kids can keep up with the rest of the LB teens. And drug test them secretly if you have to.

* the schools: two of my brothers graduated Laguna Beach High School in the 90s. The education was O.K., but not the best either. They still think it was a joke-- two of their friends were practically illiterate when they graduated from LBHS. To this day their friends can not even read a simple novel and they struggle with reading the paper. And LBHS issued them a diploma anyway.

* no sidewalks in North Laguna on most of the residential streets - not very kids friendly





We looked into Laguna Niguel, but my husband hated the peach colored cookie cutter homes that were available in the 90s I think Laguna Niguel is a nice location, but it's certainly not one of the places you can just walk to the store or get around without getting in your car.



It's hard moving the kids around, so I understand that you want to make the best choice for them. Personally, I would not raise my kids in Laguna Beach after seeing my brothers go through their teen years in that town.
 
Thanks guys for all of the great advice.



Re: Huntington Beach. I love the look of their downtown. I love their housing prices even more! But the lack of trees, and the stacked housing is a negative. I am not a sun worshipper, and I almost always wear pants. (I'm so pale, I try not to blind people by showing too much skin. :) I don't know why but it seems like wearing long pants would fit in more at Laguna than HB. True?



I thought about Rancho Palos Verdes, but it feels too suburbia for me. Most of the OC reminds me of Florida. What I like about OC is that it feels far less seedy and much safer, in general, then LA county. But the flipside is that much of it seems very sterile, as another poster put it.



I'm concerned LagB might be a little too insular, and as sandybeach said, I might feel trapped during tourist season. There's only two ways in or out to get to anything else. Also the rich kid issue. Though I have to say the TOW elementary school looked adorable and idyllic. And also I'm concerned if I will be able to afford it. Houses I would be ecstatic to live in sold at 900k in 2003, so I'm hopeful. It seems like the area had tripled by the time it got to peak.



I just looked at houses online in Fullerton and it looks wonderful. I'll check out Old Town Orange too. What's the air quality like there? It seems like Laguna Beach would have pristine air. My son has terrible asthma, and I had lots of sinus infections from the dry dusty air in Pasadena (so far, no problems here in wet Seattle).
 
[quote author="new_to_irvine" date=1240749606]What about Dana Point that is right next door to Laguna Niguel? Beach proximity and good schools I heard.</blockquote>


Is that true? I can't get a read on the schools there. Oh, and does anyone know if there is public transportation that would provide you with a way out of the area to do out of area things? Like go see a baseball game? I just hate driving in socal traffic.



Edited to add:

Old Town Orange and Fullerton are fantastic. Thanks guys for these. I wonder about the air quality though. I was seriously considering Glendale ($300 a square foot and falling there), but Fullerton and Old Town Orange capture more of the vibe I'm looking for from what I can see. Is it safe there? Good public schools?
 
[quote author="jefa" date=1240751945][quote author="new_to_irvine" date=1240749606]What about Dana Point that is right next door to Laguna Niguel? Beach proximity and good schools I heard.</blockquote>


Is that true? I can't get a read on the schools there. Oh, and does anyone know if there is public transportation that would provide you with a way out of the area to do out of area things? Like go see a baseball game? I just hate driving in socal traffic.



Edited to add:

Old Town Orange and Fullerton are fantastic. Thanks guys for these. I wonder about the air quality though. I was seriously considering Glendale ($300 a square foot and falling there), but Fullerton and Old Town Orange capture more of the vibe I'm looking for from what I can see. Is it safe there? Good public schools?</blockquote>
Fullerton North of Chapman is a very nice area. I'm working with someone on the forum at buying a home up there. Actually, if I get hired by the Bank that I'm doing consulting work now I might just move up to Fullerton myself.
 
[quote author="jefa" date=1240751814]Thanks guys for all of the great advice.



Re: Huntington Beach. I love the look of their downtown. I love their housing prices even more! But the lack of trees, and the stacked housing is a negative. I am not a sun worshipper, and I almost always wear pants. (I'm so pale, I try not to blind people by showing too much skin. :) I don't know why but it seems like wearing long pants would fit in more at Laguna than HB. True?



I thought about Rancho Palos Verdes, but it feels too suburbia for me. Most of the OC reminds me of Florida. What I like about OC is that it feels far less seedy and much safer, in general, then LA county. But the flipside is that much of it seems very sterile, as another poster put it.



I'm concerned LagB might be a little too insular, and as sandybeach said, I might feel trapped during tourist season. There's only two ways in or out to get to anything else. Also the rich kid issue. Though I have to say the TOW elementary school looked adorable and idyllic. And also I'm concerned if I will be able to afford it. Houses I would be ecstatic to live in sold at 900k in 2003, so I'm hopeful. It seems like the area had tripled by the time it got to peak.



I just looked at houses online in Fullerton and it looks wonderful. I'll check out Old Town Orange too. What's the air quality like there? It seems like Laguna Beach would have pristine air. My son has terrible asthma, and I had lots of sinus infections from the dry dusty air in Pasadena (so far, no problems here in wet Seattle).</blockquote>




OC may feel less seed and safer but it isn't. It's newer in a lot of places but it's the same as LA. A big county with lots of cities. Some good, some not so good.



PV is actaully OC with class in my opinion. Custom homes, old money, etc. But it definitiely is suburbia. Great for views. Not so great for shops to walk to, etc.
 
If you hate sun and get sinus infections from dry dusty air, I'd question whether Socal is the place for you.



Orange and Fullerton have good air by Socal standards, and better than Pasadena, but it still gets dry and dusty when the Santa Anas blow, a couple times a year. Smog isn't often a problem anywhere in OC for the past decade, but again, there are occasional days when the air gets still and the sky turns grey or even a bit yellow. If that kind of air gives you sinus infections, you'll get several a year. If you *do* want to live here Laguna Beach ( and not Niguel) would be best as it's the cloudiest, moistest place in the LA area from being right on the beach, facing the wind, with hills right behind.
 
[quote author="FairEconomist" date=1240790440]If you hate sun and get sinus infections from dry dusty air, I'd question whether Socal is the place for you.



Orange and Fullerton have good air by Socal standards, and better than Pasadena, but it still gets dry and dusty when the Santa Anas blow, a couple times a year. Smog isn't often a problem anywhere in OC for the past decade, but again, there are occasional days when the air gets still and the sky turns grey or even a bit yellow. If that kind of air gives you sinus infections, you'll get several a year. If you *do* want to live here Laguna Beach ( and not Niguel) would be best as it's the cloudiest, moistest place in the LA area from being right on the beach, facing the wind, with hills right behind.</blockquote>


I love the California weather... at least the temperature in California. I should probably investigate northern california more, but I feel like if I'm going to live in the state, it makes more sense to be within striking distance of the film biz (so I can drive home and see my family the 12+ times I do meetings a year, instead of being gone for 2 days because of the flying in and out thing). However, I definitely have been a lot less sick up here in Seattle... but I'm tired of the wet cold all the time!



There are no perfect places to live and there is always some trade off. If you guys were spending 900k on a house, which one would you choose: Palos Verdes, Fullerton, Huntington Beach or Laguna Beach, and why? (Commute to work not a factor!!)
 
I know this keeps coming up but I can't understand why people who are moving here from out of state are so intent on buying a house immediately. There are many reasons why you should rent. Number one, you are asking a bunch of strangers with so many different views where you should buy. It would make a lot more sense to pick a community based on your criteria, rent a while and decide if it's for you. Number two, it is highly likely (certain if you ask most people around here) that your new house will lose 20%+ of it's value within the next two years. Should you decide that you don't like the community you live, if you bought, you are a big loser in the deal. If you rented, you would come out of the deal with more money and a strong conviction about where you do and don't want to live. I realize that you make a decent amount of money and the stigma attached to renting for those that are accustomed to traditional ideas about renters versus owners is strong, but is it really worth it?
 
You and I have very similar wants when it comes to house hunting in the OC. I too am looking for a unique style house in a more cultured neighborhood, preferably one with a downtown within walking distance. One of my biggest obstacles to finding the right house is my husband who is, like you, attracted to more lush woodsy areas. He grew up in Oregon were there is an abundance of open space and trees. Finding a landscape <em>similar(not exact)</em> to the Pacific Northwest in Orangfe County is like finding a needle in a hay stack.



There is one neighborhood in Laguna Niguel that I think fits what you are looking for. The tract is called Niguel West. The neighborhood homes are mostly a collection of mid-century modern homes built in the 60's with lots ranging from 8,000 sq ft to 13,000 sq ft. And what I find most unique about this neighborhood is it's woodsy lush surroundings. The homes are nestled in the foothills with many mature pine trees throughout. Since the neighborhood is about 1 mile from the beach the hills surrounding the neighborhood stay green year round which you won't find in most inland OC communities. During the real estate boom years, several people erected custom stately homes. Some in good taste, some look a little out of place. But overall the neighborhood is well maintained. This Laguna Niguel neighborhood is closet to Laguna Beach. It's not within walking distance to Laguna's downtown but it's no more then a 5-10 minute drive down PCH. You can take a 1.5 mile walk down a nature trail to the beach, though.



The home schools here are good. Dana Hills High is home to the South Orange School of the Arts. <a href="http://www.socsarts.org/">Go here for more info</a> From my experience, schools that have a focus in the Arts tend to have more accepting social environments.



Home prices in this neighborhood are definitely cheaper than Laguna Beach. The lowest priced homes sold in the last 6 months were <a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Laguna-Niguel/31761-Isle-Royal-Dr-92677/home/4937982">$629,000</a> and <a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Laguna-Niguel/23391-Mammoth-Cave-Dr-92677/home/4938106">$650,000</a>. Both were in need of cosmetic updating. <a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Laguna-Niguel/31802-National-Park-Dr-92677/home/4937910">This one</a> sold for $800,000 but was completely remodeled. So the price per square foot for the outdated homes sold for around $350/sq ft and the remodeled one for $425/sqft. The price per square feet is a little high however you have to factor in the premium you are paying for the lot sizes. Not many homes close to the beach have big lots.





Hope this helps. <a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Laguna-Niguel/31762-National-Park-Dr-92677/home/4937898">Here is a great remodeled home. But, I doubt it will sell at it's WTF asking price!</a>
 
[quote author="tmare" date=1240795262]I know this keeps coming up but I can't understand why people who are moving here from out of state are so intent on buying a house immediately. There are many reasons why you should rent. Number one, you are asking a bunch of strangers with so many different views where you should buy. It would make a lot more sense to pick a community based on your criteria, rent a while and decide if it's for you. Number two, it is highly likely (certain if you ask most people around here) that your new house will lose 20%+ of it's value within the next two years. Should you decide that you don't like the community you live, if you bought, you are a big loser in the deal. If you rented, you would come out of the deal with more money and a strong conviction about where you do and don't want to live. I realize that you make a decent amount of money and the stigma attached to renting for those that are accustomed to traditional ideas about renters versus owners is strong, but is it really worth it?</blockquote>


No it isn't! I'm planning on renting. In fact, I'm up here in seattle renting because I assumed prices in Socal would never come down enough for the trade-off in quality of life to be worth it. But at 25% less and falling, the situation has changed.



As far as asking a bunch of strangers, I need to narrow down my choices. There's only so many places you can rent and try out before your kids start showing the stress of moving around too much. The current plan is to come back down to socal and rent in the area we think we're most likely going to live in long term, and daytrip to the other places. Two more moves max.



I do kind of buy into the idea that home ownership may never make financial sense in California. For me, I'm happy as long as I can sell the place for around the same price I bought it for. (And it holds its value comparative to other houses). Renting for 30 years feels precarious to me, as illogical as that may be.
 
<blockquote>This may not be a negative to you, but it was for me. Be prepared to cough up some cash so the kids can keep up with the rest of the LB teens. And drug test them secretly if you have to.</blockquote>
How do you <u>secretly</u> drug test a teen? (seriously)
 
[quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1240769725][quote author="jefa" date=1240751945][quote author="new_to_irvine" date=1240749606]What about Dana Point that is right next door to Laguna Niguel? Beach proximity and good schools I heard.</blockquote>


Is that true? I can't get a read on the schools there. Oh, and does anyone know if there is public transportation that would provide you with a way out of the area to do out of area things? Like go see a baseball game? I just hate driving in socal traffic.



Edited to add:

Old Town Orange and Fullerton are fantastic. Thanks guys for these. I wonder about the air quality though. I was seriously considering Glendale ($300 a square foot and falling there), but Fullerton and Old Town Orange capture more of the vibe I'm looking for from what I can see. Is it safe there? Good public schools?</blockquote>
Fullerton North of Chapman is a very nice area. I'm working with someone on the forum at buying a home up there. Actually, if I get hired by the Bank that I'm doing consulting work now I might just move up to Fullerton myself.</blockquote>


Hey, no stealing my house Mr.! ha ha I got to stop posting about all my Fav neighborhoods in the OC. I'm giving myself too much competition. Well, on second thought, with the up coming housing carnage I guess there will be enough supply for my IHB comrades.
 
Okay, a note about air quality. My son is an asthmatic. We used to live in Glendale. When we moved to Irvine his asthma attacks ceased. My mother has asthma as well. She grew up in neighboring city of Glendale. When she moved to north Orange County her asthma attacks became a rare occurrence.
 
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