Is Irvine strict with unpermitted work?

[irvnewb]

I'm in Irvine and would like to do a tiny extension into the backyard (adding a 10 sq ft closet into the currently covered patio area). The city I lived in previously was extremely relaxed with unpermitted work. The city didn't check so it would be really hard to get caught and they aren't allowed on your property/backyard anyway to monitor. The area I'd like to extend into is currently a covered patio so the footprint from satellite would not change. How is Irvine with this stuff? I do not have an HOA.

 

[sleepy5136]

I'm in Irvine and would like to do a tiny extension into the backyard (adding a 10 sq ft closet into the currently covered patio area). The city I lived in previously was extremely relaxed with unpermitted work. The city didn't check so it would be really hard to get caught and they aren't allowed on your property/backyard anyway to monitor. The area I'd like to extend into is currently a covered patio so the footprint from satellite would not change. How is Irvine with this stuff? I do not have an HOA.

Unless your neighbors rat you out I think it should be fine. Hopefully you have a good relationship with your neighbors

 

[Raymond]

I just went through this with an Escrow we closed yesterday - it can get messy when it's time to sell your property and can kill transactions. Irvine is the pickiest city in Orange County when it comes to permits ... it's much easier to get the permit in the beginning.

 

[sleepy5136]

I just went through this with an Escrow we closed yesterday - it can get messy when it's time to sell your property and can kill transactions. Irvine is the pickiest city in Orange County when it comes to permits ... it's much easier to get the permit in the beginning.

he's not adding additional square footage to the house if i'm understanding correctly... why would it kill transactions if it's an upgrade to the backyard and not impacting any bedrooms/bathrooms or adding sqft to the home?

 

[Raymond]

he's not adding additional square footage to the house if i'm understanding correctly... why would it kill transactions if it's an upgrade to the backyard and not impacting any bedrooms/bathrooms or adding sqft to the home?

He's adding a closet, which involves construction. We don't know the details but I'm guessing it'll need to be framed, drywalled, have a door installed and electrical.

 

[sleepy5136]

He's adding a closet, which involves construction. We don't know the details but I'm guessing it'll need to be framed, drywalled, have a door installed and electrical.

I'd be very shocked that a future homeowner will be making a fuss about a closet that was illegally added in the backyard. Construction here is a heavy term for a closet lol.

 

[Raymond]

I'd be very shocked that a future homeowner will be making a fuss about a closet that was illegally added in the backyard. Construction here is a heavy term for a closet lol.

It doesn't have anything to do with the homeowner - it's entirely about lending requirements. Fannie, Freddie, FHA, USDA and FHA have guidelines that require proper permits and inspections, as per local county and city requirements, for construction projects - major and minor. You don't have the proper construction permits and Buyer's can't get financing to purchase your property.

 

[daedalus]

It doesn't have anything to do with the homeowner - it's entirely about lending requirements. Fannie, Freddie, FHA, USDA and FHA have guidelines that require proper permits and inspections, as per local county and city requirements, for construction projects - major and minor. You don't have the proper construction permits and Buyer's can't get financing to purchase your property.

How would they know? Are their reps showing up to the inspection after getting a copy of all permits from the planning office? Or will the appraisers whose livelihoods depend on repeat business going to do it?

 

[DrTravel]

This is what I would do… go down to the city and see if a permit is required (I suspect it is) and the proper filing requirements and fees. Can’t be that expensive. A reputable contractor would likely do all of this. This is the moral and proper thing to do. You sleep better and would never be concerned about any future issues (getting caught). Maybe do a quick study about ethics?

This is what I wouldn’t do. Post to a forum announcing you might be doing something illegal and looking for advice on strategies to cover your ass. Surprising no one else mentioned this, but then again, it’s a sign of the times.

A few weeks ago I looked at a house where they built an additional “room” in the backyard with a deck on top. They listing agent told everyone that the room wasn’t permitted so he couldn’t include the square footage but that getting a permit was no big deal. I told him, if it’s no big deal, then why don’t you just get it done before proceeding with the listing? You admitted that the homeowner is borderline fraudulent so you why would anyone trust and do business with them? I also told the agent I was going to check with NAR to see if his actions were ethical. A few days later, the listing was removed.

 

[Raymond]

How would they know? Are their reps showing up to the inspection after getting a copy of all permits from the planning office? Or will the appraisers whose livelihoods depend on repeat business going to do it?

It comes up twice, with the Appraisal and Home Inspection. Today's Appraiser's don't depend on repeat business like that anymnore - those that did went out of business in 2008-9.

 

[The Motor Court Company]

Irvine has full of cookie cutter floor plans it is quite easy to spot any modifications

 

[sleepy5136]

It doesn't have anything to do with the homeowner - it's entirely about lending requirements. Fannie, Freddie, FHA, USDA and FHA have guidelines that require proper permits and inspections, as per local county and city requirements, for construction projects - major and minor. You don't have the proper construction permits and Buyer's can't get financing to purchase your property.

That’s interesting because most SFH in Honolulu have unpermitted work and they have no issues getting loans backed by the government. I can post examples below and you will see the county records will not match the actual home.

https://redf.in/40eH1X - claiming ~800 sqft more with one less bedroom and 1.5 more bath compared to county record

https://redf.in/gM9e4d - claiming one additional bedroom compared to county record

https://redf.in/bz9uoX - claiming two additional bedrooms and ~500 sqft more than county record

I’m pretty sure despite the unpermitted work these homes are all backed by Freddie and Fannie. My parents home in Honolulu never matched records and there were no issues getting the loan funded by Freddie and Fannie.

 

[sleepy5136]

This is what I would do… go down to the city and see if a permit is required (I suspect it is) and the proper filing requirements and fees. Can’t be that expensive. A reputable contractor would likely do all of this. This is the moral and proper thing to do. You sleep better and would never be concerned about any future issues (getting caught). Maybe do a quick study about ethics?

This is what I wouldn’t do. Post to a forum announcing you might be doing something illegal and looking for advice on strategies to cover your ass. Surprising no one else mentioned this, but then again, it’s a sign of the times.

A few weeks ago I looked at a house where they built an additional “room” in the backyard with a deck on top. They listing agent told everyone that the room wasn’t permitted so he couldn’t include the square footage but that getting a permit was no big deal. I told him, if it’s no big deal, then why don’t you just get it done before proceeding with the listing? You admitted that the homeowner is borderline fraudulent so you why would anyone trust and do business with them? I also told the agent I was going to check with NAR to see if his actions were ethical. A few days later, the listing was removed.

You must have a lot of time and if you ever looked at RE in Hawaii you will have a great time reporting every listing

I do think big additions like actual physical structures that add value should get a permit. But a closet adds 0 value and quite frankly a waste of time for the county to come out. I’d be shocked if a future buyer doesn’t get funding because a closet isn’t permitted…

if anyone can give their experience of an addition to ones home that adds 0 value and the future buyer couldn’t get a loan due to it please correct me here.

 

[irvine buyer]

You don't mention whether this covered patio is enclosed; and if so, whether it has the required number of electrical outlets per Irvine code. If not enclosed and you plan to enclose then are you going to do the work as required by code for a bedroom or just do the minimum for your current needs. By adding a closet I'm assuming you intend to use this covered patio as a bedroom. If and when you sell, do you plan to advertise this as a bedroom? If so, a home inspector will likely note that the "bedroom" appears to be an addition. The square footage on file with city may not match what inspector arrives at by measuring. It opens up the question of whether the addition is permitted. If you sold during a period like 2021-early 2022 perhaps it wouldn't matter as you would have found a buyer willing to overlook this. The appraiser may come to the same conclusion as the inspector and may adjust the property's appraised value which may affect the sale if there is an appraisal contingency. Again, during a hot real estate market perhaps this may be a moot point.

Personally, I would make sure the work is permitted. Peace of mind and one less thing to complicate a sale. That said, if there is already an enclosed patio that was done without permits, you may be opening up a can of worms with the city applying for a permit.

 

[Raymond]

You must have a lot of time and if you ever looked at RE in Hawaii you will have a great time reporting every listing

I do think big additions like actual physical structures that add value should get a permit. But a closet adds 0 value and quite frankly a waste of time for the county to come out. I’d be shocked if a future buyer doesn’t get funding because a closet isn’t permitted…

if anyone can give their experience of an addition to ones home that adds 0 value and the future buyer couldn’t get a loan due to it please correct me here.

It's not about adding value, it's entirely about Health and Safety. The VA home loan program refers to it as Safe, Sound and Sanitary. Lending institutions require permits for any type of construction, depending on local requirements and they use the stricter of the entities. If a city doesn't have permit requirements they'll go up one level and see if the county has requirements. If the county doesn't then they go up a level to the State. Irvine has the most rigid requirements I've encountered, stricter then county or State requirements, so those are the guidelines that'll be used.

When I'm listing a property in Irvine and the owners show me their improvements, I inquire about permits because not having them could be an obstacle when the home inspection report and/or appraisal are completed. When representing a buyer I request permits for all upgrades when we make the offer, via the Residential Purchase Agreement, and also ask the Home Inspector to comment on the quality of workmanship on the upgrades/improvements.

If the buyers are paying cash and don't have a home inspection contingency and really want the property, even if permits aren't available, I warn them in writing it could be a obstacle when it comes time to sell their home. Lack of permits doesn't keep them from buying it, but could be painful when they want to sell it.

I've had owners that needed to get permits before being able to sell. If they've done framing, plumbing or electrical that's behind drywall, it's a mess because it has to removed for the Inspector to review the work to confirm it complies with local code. And if it doesn't then everything needs to be re-done. It's frustrating, takes money and time, and could easily have been avoided.

For reference, for properties located in Irvine, anybody can go here to see the permits on our property - https://permits.cityofirvine.org/ir...Build=PM.pmPermit.SearchForm&utask=normalview

 

[Ready2Downsize]

I'm in Irvine and would like to do a tiny extension into the backyard (adding a 10 sq ft closet into the currently covered patio area). The city I lived in previously was extremely relaxed with unpermitted work. The city didn't check so it would be really hard to get caught and they aren't allowed on your property/backyard anyway to monitor. The area I'd like to extend into is currently a covered patio so the footprint from satellite would not change. How is Irvine with this stuff? I do not have an HOA.

Why would you not go to the city and ask about this? I will bet you need to get permits to add onto living areas. Was this house ever sold before or are you the original owner? If you are not, there are photos of that house, drone footage and neighbors who would know something. Say they don't rat you out to the city up front (probably wouldn't is my guess) but something happens in the future. What if there is an electrical fire or plumbing issue or foundation problems? You can bet the new homeowner and their insurance company is going to pursue a case against whoever put that unpermitted additional space in and if someone dies you could face criminal charges. Again........ why in California of all places would you not get permits?

 

[daedalus]

It comes up twice, with the Appraisal and Home Inspection. Today's Appraiser's don't depend on repeat business like that anymnore - those that did went out of business in 2008-9.

If this stuff was enforced, 2/3 of the homes in LA county would never sell. There was no permitted code review for my 2011 purchase, nor for any of the 3 refis after that, all of which included appraisals.

 

[sleepy5136]

If this stuff was enforced, 2/3 of the homes in LA county would never sell. There was no permitted code review for my 2011 purchase, nor for any of the 3 refis after that, all of which included appraisals.

TBH Irvine attracts a lot of people that “follow the rules”. So I’m not surprised we are seeing individuals here emphasizing that. They aren’t necessary wrong either. But I think the OP here is asking about a closet addition to the backyard which I personally feel isn’t a big deal if it wasn’t permitted. While others here have emphasized otherwise, I don’t think at the end of the day a transaction wouldn’t close because a closet wasn’t permitted. The idea that a closet extension would cause “safety” hazards is a bit extreme I feel. But I don’t know the details of this closet OP is installing. It could well be a significant addition where not getting a permit could be an issue. But with the limited information on here, I think it’s fine…

 

[daedalus]

TBH Irvine attracts a lot of people that “follow the rules”. So I’m not surprised we are seeing individuals here emphasizing that. They aren’t necessary wrong either.

I get that, but we're talking about federal loan agencies and programs. Is Fannie Mae or Chase Mortgage going to process a loan in Irvine differently than a loan in Compton? The federal government implicitly and explicitly wants to increase the rate of homeownership, so i can't see them getting too picky with code violations. My first house had an unpermitted deck. Was not disclosed until (deceitfully) pretty late in the buying process...like "here, sign these forms to get your keys, and oh, by the way, the deck isn't permitted". And for that matter, the electrical system was an unlit structure fire. Nobody cared.

 

[sleepy5136]

I get that, but we're talking about federal loan agencies and programs. Is Fannie Mae or Chase Mortgage going to process a loan in Irvine differently than a loan in Compton? The federal government implicitly and explicitly wants to increase the rate of homeownership, so i can't see them getting too picky with code violations. My first house had an unpermitted deck. Was not disclosed until (deceitfully) pretty late in the buying process...like "here, sign these forms to get your keys, and oh, by the way, the deck isn't permitted". And for that matter, the electrical system was an unlit structure fire. Nobody cared.

They won't care. I've emphasized that in my response. I'm not disagreeing with you here. Without extra info on the additional closet that is being added, I do think it's not an issue.

One of the main reason(s) that the state wants you to apply for permits on additions is it raises the value of the property. That means more property tax the state can receive in the future. With this closet, the addition to the home is probably near 0. Which is why I would argue it's almost a waste of time for the inspector to come as it generates no revenue for the state. The cost for the inspector to come outweighs the return to the state in this case.