Irvine Housing Dreams ? Part 3

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See... you Irvine haters are making CK leave.



Honestly... why do we have to hate on each other for where we choose to live and what we see as important to us? I'm reading CK's posts and they are almost exactly the same as mine in the Behind the Orange Curtain thread.



I think we all need chill a little bit here... no one is right on the Internet... except for me.



And No_Vas' shocking revelation is he really owns a home in Villages of Columbus... and that he cried when heard about Michael Jackson.
 
I don't have anything against people who like Irvine and I've said it many times. It's just not my type of place, it works for many of you and that's great. Unfortunately, this one started early this morning when RC decided sight unseen that Irvine is undoubtedly better than Park Santiago, which of course, I had to disagree with. Maybe some people should start their sentences with three words "For me, personally...." rather than blanket statements regarding what is without a doubt better.
 
Well... I think if we just use the pretense that anything posted here is an opinion unless stated otherwise it might work out better for us all.



I'll get tired of typing "3 car garages are the best... for me, personally" daily. Heck... I don't even type "3-car wide garages" anymore I'm so lazy.



3CWG 4 L!
 
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1246001423]Well... I think if we just use the pretense that anything posted here is an opinion unless stated otherwise it might work out better for us all.



I'll get tired of typing "3 car garages are the best... for me, personally" daily. Heck... I don't even type "3-car wide garages" anymore I'm so lazy.



3CWG 4 L!</blockquote>


Try: IMO.. :-)

But if everyone became so cautious about what they wrote, there won't be anything interesting left to say sometimes.. it will end up being real world (?) As long as people are civil, what's wrong in expressing their views ..
 
[quote author="tmare" date=1246001186]I don't have anything against people who like Irvine and I've said it many times. It's just not my type of place, it works for many of you and that's great. Unfortunately, this one started early this morning when RC decided sight unseen that Irvine is undoubtedly better than Park Santiago, which of course, I had to disagree with. Maybe some people should start their sentences with three words "For me, personally...." rather than blanket statements regarding what is without a doubt better.</blockquote>


I need to learn that especially.
 
I haven't been posting long, but I've been lurking for a while, and there is something I want to say. Let me start out by saying that I live in Irvine, and I like it, but it's just the city where I live. I don't worship anything about Irvine. I could live in another city and be just as happy.



That said, it seems like when someone here says something negative about another city when comparing it to Irvine, another commenter might tell that person they need to "get out more." They might ask: "Have you personally been to [name of area]? No? Then don't assume it's not as nice as Irvine." Like the above discussion about Santa Ana. I've never been to Santiago Park, but it looks like a lovely area. I'm not doubting that there are some very nice parts of Santa Ana. I know there are. But would I personally live in one? No. This is because no matter how nice a particular Santa Ana neighborhood is, it's still in Santa Ana. And Santa Ana for the most part is not a very nice city. Take Oakland, for example...I've personally been to some really beautiful areas of Oakland with very expensive houses. But I wouldn't live there because it's still Oakland. You can't use the schools, and even in a nice part of the city, you're still 5 minutes away from the ghetto. When I lived in the Bay Area, there I remember a news story about a girl who was stabbed to death about a couple of miles away from million-dollar homes, during a mugging. Obviously this can happen anywhere, but it's probably more likely to happen somewhere that's in close proximity to a high-crime area (which even the nice parts of Oakland are).



My point is that you don't have to personally visit every part of every city to make judgments about whether or not you'd want to live there. Like I said, I know there are nice parts of Santa Ana, and every city. But I would never want to have the nicest house in a lousy neighborhood, or live in a nice area in the middle of a ghetto city where I couldn't use the schools.



I hope I haven't offended anyone. These are just my opinions.
 
nicely said, Traceimage. For two reasons. my family will never consider Santa Ana : 1) school 2) crime. So visiting does no good to me, and the existence of nice area within Santa Ann is completely irrelevant. However, that does not mean if my family moves there, our kids will be all screwed up, or get shot. But the chance of that it is higher comparing with Irvine or other cities, so why take the chance if there are other alternatives?
 
I don't know what more I can say except that my family lives in a safe environment and my kids will be going to a good school and I live in Santa Ana. The paranoia perpetuated in the media has limited so many of your life experiences, but carry on and enjoy your lives.
 
[quote author="tmare" date=1246018797]I don't know what more I can say except that my family lives in a safe environment and my kids will be going to a good school and I live in Santa Ana. The paranoia perpetuated in the media has limited so many of your life experiences, but carry on and enjoy your lives.</blockquote>


At least for me, my opinions on this don't come from the media and I wouldn't say I'm paranoid or that my life experiences are being limited. I'm just being practical about what is best for my family.



Honestly I think some people just get defensive about where they live, and I can understand that. Especially if they live in a place like Santa Ana, which a lot of people think negatively about.



Tmare, if you don't mind my asking, are your kids going to be attending public schools? (I know there are at least a few good public schools in Santa Ana.)
 
[quote author="traceimage" date=1246013826]Take Oakland, for example...I've personally been to some really beautiful areas of Oakland with very expensive houses. But I wouldn't live there because it's still Oakland. You can't use the schools, and even in a nice part of the city, you're still 5 minutes away from the ghetto. When I lived in the Bay Area, there I remember a news story about a girl who was stabbed to death about a couple of miles away from million-dollar homes, during a mugging. Obviously this can happen anywhere, but it's probably more likely to happen somewhere that's in close proximity to a high-crime area (which even the nice parts of Oakland are).



My point is that you don't have to personally visit every part of every city to make judgments about whether or not you'd want to live there. Like I said, I know there are nice parts of Santa Ana, and every city. But I would never want to have the nicest house in a lousy neighborhood, or live in a nice area in the middle of a ghetto city where I couldn't use the schools.



I hope I haven't offended anyone. These are just my opinions.</blockquote>


Did you really live in Oakland, or just the suburbs of the Bay Area? Because your ignorance of Oakland is truly mind blowing. Piedmont has some of the best schools in the Bay Area, and it is really Oakland. How about Montclair, Grand Lake/Lakeshore, and Rockridge, sucky schools? I think not. Are you five minutes away from the ghetto, not hardly, but if you ever really lived there you would know that. The nice parts of Oakland have extremely low levels of crime, much like Irvine. Why? Because they are a PITA to get to. You ever try to run through the Oakland Hills? How about try to speed through them in your car as if you were being chased? No one, in even a cracked out mind, would try that.



And, also your ignorance of Santa Ana is staggering. But, you said it yourself, you don't need to visit to make your judgment, so ignorance is bliss for you. I'm not offended by your opinions, which seem to not be based on any actual facts or experience, I am embarrassed that someone could be that paranoid and ignorant about areas in which they obviously have never been to.
 
[quote author="traceimage" date=1246020794][quote author="tmare" date=1246018797]I don't know what more I can say except that my family lives in a safe environment and my kids will be going to a good school and I live in Santa Ana. The paranoia perpetuated in the media has limited so many of your life experiences, but carry on and enjoy your lives.</blockquote>


At least for me, my opinions on this don't come from the media and I wouldn't say I'm paranoid or that my life experiences are being limited. I'm just being practical about what is best for my family.



Honestly I think some people just get defensive about where they live, and I can understand that. Especially if they live in a place like Santa Ana, which a lot of people think negatively about.



Tmare, if you don't mind my asking, are your kids going to be attending public schools? (I know there are at least a few good public schools in Santa Ana.)</blockquote>


You said yourself that the media has influenced your opinion...



<blockquote>When I lived in the Bay Area, there I remember a <strong>news story</strong> about a girl who was stabbed to death about a couple of miles away from million-dollar homes, during a mugging.</blockquote>


Then you proceeded to bash Oakland. Even though you really don't know Oakland.
 
[quote author="traceimage" date=1246020794][quote author="tmare" date=1246018797]I don't know what more I can say except that my family lives in a safe environment and my kids will be going to a good school and I live in Santa Ana. The paranoia perpetuated in the media has limited so many of your life experiences, but carry on and enjoy your lives.</blockquote>


At least for me, my opinions on this don't come from the media and I wouldn't say I'm paranoid or that my life experiences are being limited. I'm just being practical about what is best for my family.



Honestly I think some people just get defensive about where they live, and I can understand that. Especially if they live in a place like Santa Ana, which a lot of people think negatively about.



Tmare, if you don't mind my asking, are your kids going to be attending public schools? (I know there are at least a few good public schools in Santa Ana.)</blockquote>


My son will be starting Kindergarten in a public charter school where he will become bilingual and bi-literate as well as have a school focused on arts and science. In addition to this, I teach in a public, Santa Ana Fundamental Intermediate School which has had great results with kids of all different backgrounds. I believe in the school and the results achieved for students both academically and socially. My husband grew up and attended both public and private schools in Santa Ana and I believe that he is one of the most intelligent, well educated and well rounded people I know. And yes, he is a white guy.
 
Trace,



Thank you for sharing your view point. I know you have been in Irvine for 2 years and may have heard about the surrounding cities by word of mouth. As you are renting you are not rooted in any way. You are relatively young and your significant other certainly like the resort lifestyle at IAC. You are living a good life. Searching for a home within your budget will be difficult as you recently relocated here and had just started your career. Keep a open mind and just be receptive to other communities that still meet your safety and good school requirement.



I am very familiar with the city of Oakland and its surrounding neighborhoods like Piedmont and the quaint village of Alameda. You are right about crime and how it can promote fear in driving away population to newer suburbs starting with a clean slate.



The strategy for many newer suburbs is to keep home prices and living expenses high as a way to exclude the poorer population with their baggage such as under performing kids and criminal activities. For every county there is a downtown civic center that encompasses various departments with services that help to sustain the new suburbs. Courthouse, jail, county assessor, social services, unemployment, health care agency, family and child services, social security, and many other vital functions are just some of the required sectors to allow the new suburbs to exist.



It is usually the Downtown that inherited problems including some produced by new suburbs such as unwanted demographic like homelessness. Irvine could not really exist without Santa Ana from both governmental perspective and RE development labor force such as the laborers who built your roof or maintained your community landscaping.



It is really easy to say that I do not want to have anything to do with the City of Santa Ana but Irvine would not exist without the Santa Ana governmental and social service infrastructure. Being an involved citizen could really make our society a much better place.



Certain ethnic groups are very passive about government, politic and helping to solve society issues. "I don't care unless the problem implicates me and I want to live far away from the problem". This sentiment is especially shared among Asians.



Just keep an open mind and don't let other influence your mind without seeing it yourself first. Before I compare or contrast certain neighborhoods I make sure I do my homework to understand all facets and the same should apply to home purchase. I never bash a community unless I can name my 50 reasonings in a very long post.
 
Graphrix, I'm not going to dissect your posts and argue with you, but I lived in Berkeley (right near the Oakland border) for 14 years. I actually don't agree with you at all about the Oakland schools. I would not send my child to an Oakland public school. You don't have to agree, but please don't assume I am saying this out of ignorance. I worked in Berkeley and Oakland schools for 3 years.



I've read a lot of your posts, and you often seem to be shocked at everyone's staggering ignorance, and how ignorance is bliss. I think that might just be your way of attacking people that don't agree with you?



I think I've been respectful to the people here I don't agree with...yet you seem to want to tear apart my statements and go on the offensive. And I just noticed you're a moderator? Is that kind of behavior encouraged on these forums? Eek. I don't think this is my kind of online community. Oh well. :(
 
I actually think it's disgusting that I should even have to mention this, but the shock on some of my south county colleagues faces when I brought in the picture was enough for me to decide to bring it up here: My son just finished his Tee-Ball season with the North West Santa Ana Little League, a team of ten blond heads from middle to upper middle class families. Not the picture most of you think of when you think of Santa Ana. Personally, I would have preferred more diversity, maybe some Asian, Hispanic or African American kids, but that's the way it worked out. We seem to all voluntarily segregate ourselves and I truly wish it wasn't that way. I hate a world where location is based on race, but I fear that so many of our stereotypes of places are becoming that way. My son has recently started golf lessons and I think he believes that only Asians play golf, he has only met Asian kids during his lessons. Too big of a can of worms, but please get rid of the idea that Santa Ana is defined by Hispanic gang-bangers, those of us who live in a world bigger than the 12 square miles BK talks about know otherwise.
 
[quote author="traceimage" date=1246023053]Graphrix, I'm not going to dissect your posts and argue with you, but I lived in Berkeley (right near the Oakland border) for 14 years. I actually don't agree with you at all about the Oakland schools. I would not send my child to an Oakland public school. You don't have to agree, but please don't assume I am saying this out of ignorance. I worked in Berkeley and Oakland schools for 3 years.



I've read a lot of your posts, and you often seem to be shocked at everyone's staggering ignorance, and how ignorance is bliss. I think that might just be your way of attacking people that don't agree with you?



I think I've been respectful to the people here I don't agree with...yet you seem to want to tear apart my statements and go on the offensive. And I just noticed you're a moderator? Is that kind of behavior encouraged on these forums? Eek. I don't think this is my kind of online community. Oh well. :(</blockquote>


My husband also lived in Oakland while he attended Berkeley. He saw some pretty crazy things, but actually never felt threatened or paranoid the way it seems you do. I wonder if your kids won't turn out to be some of the wimpy little things I see in my classes, those who come from overly protected environments. Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it, fearful kids who can't make a move without worrying that they'll get killed. Fear breeds fear. God, I'm usually a really nice person, it's all your fault, Graph.
 
[quote author="traceimage" date=1246023053]Graphrix, I'm not going to dissect your posts and argue with you, but I lived in Berkeley (right near the Oakland border) for 14 years. I actually don't agree with you at all about the Oakland schools. I would not send my child to an Oakland public school. You don't have to agree, but please don't assume I am saying this out of ignorance. I worked in Berkeley and Oakland schools for 3 years.



I've read a lot of your posts, and you often seem to be shocked at everyone's staggering ignorance, and how ignorance is bliss. I think that might just be your way of attacking people that don't agree with you?



I think I've been respectful to the people here I don't agree with...yet you seem to want to tear apart my statements and go on the offensive. And I just noticed you're a moderator? Is that kind of behavior encouraged on these forums? Eek. I don't think this is my kind of online community. Oh well. :(</blockquote>
Since you've read a lot of his posts... you should know by now that graph is Mr. Grouchy Pants. He doesn't mean any harm... he just doesn't filter online.



And don't get hung up on the "moderator" title... I learned early on that all that really means is that they were one of the OG members or they specialize in a certain area of this forum. The only people who actually moderate are zovall and IR. If not for PeterUK... I may have not stuck around but I'm glad I did... you just need to get used to it.



I think that's the problem though here (as with most of the Internet)... the medium isn't really good for tone so it's hard to tell if "ignorant" is truly an insult or just word being used to catch someone's attention. I doubt graph actually thinks your ignorant... and if so... well.... your response just pwned him a bit*.



*IMO

[quote author="Cubic Zirconia" date=1246003306]

But if everyone became so cautious about what they wrote, there won't be anything interesting left to say sometimes.. it will end up being real world (?) As long as people are civil, what's wrong in expressing their views ..</blockquote>
And I don't think anyone here is telling anyone to not express their views... but you are right about the civility. When people seem to get insulted or irritated by others' posts, they should maybe give a little slack as opinions shouldn't really be subject to so much criticism (although in the case of some posters... it's obvious they are just being trolls... which I remember I was accused of numerous times when I first joined).



roundcorners is such an instigator... wasn't the Behind the Orange Curtain thread his poll too? Drama queen!!!
 
Taken from the <a href="http://www.ocregister.com/articles/crime-murder-fbi-2158884-violent-property">OCR</a>.

2007 totals for violent and property crimes, rate per 10,000 people, and percent change since 2006.



City Year Population Violent crime Violent crime rate Percent change since 2006 Property crime Property crime rate Percent change since 2006



Irvine 2007 201,872 143 7.08 5.99% 3,256 161.29 0.23%



Santa Ana 2007 340,223 1,947 57.23 -1.63% 7,797 229.17 -8.80%
 
[quote author="traceimage" date=1246023053]Graphrix, I'm not going to dissect your posts and argue with you, but I lived in Berkeley (right near the Oakland border) for 14 years. I actually don't agree with you at all about the Oakland schools. I would not send my child to an Oakland public school. You don't have to agree, but please don't assume I am saying this out of ignorance. I worked in Berkeley and Oakland schools for 3 years.



I've read a lot of your posts, and you often seem to be shocked at everyone's staggering ignorance, and how ignorance is bliss. I think that might just be your way of attacking people that don't agree with you?



I think I've been respectful to the people here I don't agree with...yet you seem to want to tear apart my statements and go on the offensive. And I just noticed you're a moderator? Is that kind of behavior encouraged on these forums? Eek. I don't think this is my kind of online community. Oh well. :(</blockquote>


Actually, you have been taking some pot shots where you can. So to say that you have been respectful is disingenuous at best. If you want to leave, then that is your choice, you chose to dish it, now you are saying you can't take it.



And you really wouldn't send your kids to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piedmont_High_School_(California)">Piedmont High School</a>? It kicks Uni's a$$ all day long in academics and scores. I would rather my kids go to Piedmont over any Irvine high school. You see why I question you?
 
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