Interesting phone call from our leasing office

For sure you should contact IAC Corporate. I did one time when my new complex manager was sending out "Flyer's" that were NOT "IAC" approved about paying your rent on time and holiday schedules. IAC Corporate was more than happy to take my call and resolve the situation. Some of these managers have not been trained and the only way to rein them in is by contacting the corporate office. The very next day a letter on IAC Stationary was sent to all the tenants in our complex apologizing for the "Flyer's" the office was sending out. I even got a follow up call from corporate to make sure I was satisfied. Just give them a call and calmly explain the situation about the call you recieved from the manager. No big deal.



And in my opinion. If you don't like kids playing in the common areas. Move to Seizure World.
 
[quote author="gypsyuma" date=1245874560] If anyone is hot and bothered by the noise or sight of children playing, then I would suggest one of those senior communities in Laguna Woods or whereever the hell it is.</blockquote>


Not to belay this point, but your argument is a bit of a red herring.



I would consider a move into Leisure World NOW but they won't allow anyone under 55 PERIOD. I have to wait another 17 years before I meet eligibility.
 
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1245880375]

Not to belay this point, but your argument is a bit of a red herring.



I would consider a move into Leisure World NOW but they won't allow anyone under 55 PERIOD. I have to wait another 17 years before I meet eligibility.</blockquote>


You're only 38?!!?
 
[quote author="SoCal78" date=1245889765][quote author="no_vaseline" date=1245880375]

Not to belay this point, but your argument is a bit of a red herring.



I would consider a move into Leisure World NOW but they won't allow anyone under 55 PERIOD. I have to wait another 17 years before I meet eligibility.</blockquote>


You're only 38?!!?</blockquote>


He actually <strong><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_Cube">turned 40 last Monday</a></strong>, but why are we splitting hairs...
 
another reason why I can't stand living in irvine. Kids playing in the street is not allowed because they make too much noise? what the heck!!!!
 
[quote author="gypsyuma" date=1245874560]

I would go on record now. I would send a letter (not a phone call) to IAC stating clearly the Fair Housing Laws </blockquote>




I'd be careful about playing lawyer and citing the law, as you understand it, in writing to IAC. Your complaint could wind up in the legal department where you speak with lawyers and their assistants rather than the customer service department, where you want it. IAC won't need to be reminded of fair housing laws. Citing them in writing seems to me like it could only raise their defenses. The CS department is very accommodating and you can bet they will take care of you.
 
I agree with all the people who said send a letter to IAC corporate.



From your account of the phone conversation, the manager was apparently violating housing law. But also agree with Cuatro that you should not say that directly, just complain about the specific comments (kids can't play outside) and that you feel this is unfair.



As soon as the people at corporate see that, they will know exactly what the manager has done.



You will get a letter of apology, with a recission of the managers' "recommendation".



And if I were at corporate, the next time you hear from that manager, it would be to ask if you want fries with that.
 
Definitely call/email/write IAC customer service, as they are really good about responding. Or, if you were speaking with the assistant manager (who deals with most of those calls/issues in IAC rentals) go talk to your Community Manager - most of the time they want to fix it before it ever gets to Customer Service (our property has had 3 assistant managers int hat time, but only 1 community manager). Is this manager new to your complex? The reason I ask is that nearly EVERY time we have gotten a new (assistant) manager transferred in from a newer (less family-filled) property, we get a notice about kids playing in common areas, limiting play with toys to only the tot lot area, etc. and so on. Shortly thereafter, the neighbors who have lived here for 5 years plus call the same people in Customer Service, and we receive a "corrected" version "highly encouraging" children to be supervised at all times and requesting that we "make every effort" to limit use of scooters, etc. to the area near the tot-lot/playground. I have been here 18 months and have had this happen 3 times. So... it may be a newer manager from a property where they have not dealt much with families. BUT they have always talked to all parents - so if they are singling you out - writing Customer Service is important to protect yourself.
 
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1245880375][quote author="gypsyuma" date=1245874560] If anyone is hot and bothered by the noise or sight of children playing, then I would suggest one of those senior communities in Laguna Woods or whereever the hell it is.</blockquote>


Not to belay this point, but your argument is a bit of a red herring.



I would consider a move into Leisure World NOW but they won't allow anyone under 55 PERIOD. I have to wait another 17 years before I meet eligibility.</blockquote>


Maybe you have grounds for discrimination too? LOL Probably not.



But then, don't those single DINK types love the high-rise condos? Maybe there you can find the tranquility you are looking for.



I am all for people getting what they want, but someone cannot move the most family oriented part of OC and then act like kids need to be kept in a cage with their mouths taped shut. That is crazy. Not speaking of you....
 
[quote author="Cuatro" date=1245890930][quote author="gypsyuma" date=1245874560]

I would go on record now. I would send a letter (not a phone call) to IAC stating clearly the Fair Housing Laws </blockquote>




I'd be careful about playing lawyer and citing the law, as you understand it, in writing to IAC. Your complaint could wind up in the legal department where you speak with lawyers and their assistants rather than the customer service department, where you want it. IAC won't need to be reminded of fair housing laws. Citing them in writing seems to me like it could only raise their defenses. The CS department is very accommodating and you can bet they will take care of you.</blockquote>


If you have experience with the Customer Service and think that will end the problem, then maybe best to listen to this person. I just don't want to see her with an eviction notice because of the children playing, and then she never went on record about anything before. If you do call, be sure to get the person's name and document the date and time you spoke to the person, just in case.



If when you talk to Customer Service they are unresponsive, then you could put it in writing, but not using lawyer talk. You could say it is unfair and unreasonable to not allow children outside to play instead of saying it is discriminatory under the Fair Housing Act.



Good Luck.
 
[quote author="jenyfurg" date=1245896585]Definitely call/email/write IAC customer service, as they are really good about responding. Or, if you were speaking with the assistant manager (who deals with most of those calls/issues in IAC rentals) go talk to your Community Manager - most of the time they want to fix it before it ever gets to Customer Service (our property has had 3 assistant managers int hat time, but only 1 community manager). Is this manager new to your complex? The reason I ask is that nearly EVERY time we have gotten a new (assistant) manager transferred in from a newer (less family-filled) property, we get a notice about kids playing in common areas, limiting play with toys to only the tot lot area, etc. and so on. Shortly thereafter, the neighbors who have lived here for 5 years plus call the same people in Customer Service, and we receive a "corrected" version "highly encouraging" children to be supervised at all times and requesting that we "make every effort" to limit use of scooters, etc. to the area near the tot-lot/playground. I have been here 18 months and have had this happen 3 times. So... it may be a newer manager from a property where they have not dealt much with families. BUT they have always talked to all parents - so if they are singling you out - writing Customer Service is important to protect yourself.</blockquote>


Just FYI....they may not have grounds to require you to supervise your children while playing.



Can my landlord require me to supervise my children when they are outside?



No. The law doesn't allow a landlord to require children to be supervised when outside unless it there is a compelling reason to justify such. A "compelling reason" is not something trivial such as the landlord?s desire for peace and quiet. Rather, a compelling reason is something that likely posed imminent danger to the child if the child wasn?t supervised, such as requiring supervision of young kids in a pool. In this situation, there is a very present danger. Otherwise, the landlord cannot require supervision of kids because he doesn?t want kids running around unattended. A parent is free to allow their children to play outside unsupervised even if the landlord doesn?t think this is good parenting. With this in mind, it is illegal for a landlord to require children to be supervised while playing in the common areas because a young child "might" wonder off or fall and hurt themselves. Unless the danger is clearly real and obvious, then a landlord cannot require supervision of a child. A landlord's fear of "liability" or concern that a child might get hurt if unsupervised is not legal grounds to permit him to require tenants to supervise their children. The landlord must leave such decisions to the parent. <span style="color: red;">As one court has noted, "Safety judgments are for informed parents to make, not landlords."</span>
 
<blockquote>I?m curious what the lawyers on the board have to say because my initial reaction is that this manager just opened a potential lawsuit for his boss....kids have to play... tenants have to deal with the fact that<em> kids make noise</em>.



Doesn?t make sense to ask tenants with families not to let their kids go <em>outside to play</em>.



If he said that your kids are not allowed to <em>play outside</em> to me? I would have burst into laughter.



If I lived in a complex and got called telling me that my children couldn?t <em>play outside</em> knowing full well that there are plenty of other kids who play outside, I?d definitely give that person a hard time.



Can a landlord refuse to allow children to play with toys or<em> play outside </em>because he is worried about liability or is fearful of getting sued? No.



Does the peace and quiet of the community allow the landlord to prevent kids from <em>playing outside</em>? No. </blockquote>


hmm... i think we should be careful to fully understand the points of contention between the original poster and complex mgr... and not interpret the mgr's comments too broadly. re-reading the original post, even by the poster's own account, the areas in question are very specific: <strong>driveways, streets, and walkways</strong>. i agree the mgr was over-zealous in restricting jump rope or any other specific activity, but it also sounds like he might have gotten tripped up or agitated by the questioning, which led to some contradictory or off-the-cuff remarks. but even with only one side of the story, it's clear that the issue at hand is regarding play in areas of traffic.



the legal-ese posted by gypsyuma specifically refers to the landlord being unable to restrict play "outside" or in "common areas". i'm no lawyer, but does anybody know whether there is a legal definition for those terms? does common areas include areas of traffic such as driveways, parking lots, parking stalls, and pedestrian walkways? i agree with the poster who warned about playing lawyer. we should be careful about encouraging others to play hardball with their landlord because at the end of the day, it'll be her and her family that has to deal with what happens should IAC go on the defensive.
 
Wow, must be an East Coast thing... but as a kid I was always banned from playing in the street and driveways as was everyone else I know. By my parents and any adult who saw us. Of course we lived in a house and had backyards. Sidewalks were another matter entirely.
 
Reading between the lines, I would say that <strong>one </strong>person has a problem with the noise your kids have been making. I bet you can figure out who it is, just think it through. You know where your kids play and you know which apartments are nearby. This person didn't have the guts to come and talk to you personally, so they went to the manager. The manager probably didn't know how to tell you it was just YOUR kids, so they made up the line about how kids cannot do certain things in certain areas. No need to write any letters, just have the kiddies tone it down a bit when they know that certain 'someone' is home. That person will notice the kids are making an effort to be more quiet. Just be a good neighbor.
 
I would go down to the office and ask for the leasing manager to call corporate while you are there so you can work this out.



When he gets on the phone with Annie Ahern, I could be wrong but I think that is the person at corporate, ask him to repeat what he said to you. Then ask Annie if that is truly IAC policy. I believe in some IAC leases it does strictly prohibit, bicycles, scooters, skateboards etc on sidewalks because it does pose a danger.



The rest of what he says is crap.



They do have a thing with sidewalk chalk though!!! If you use it you must wash it off immediatly.
 
Thank you all very much for your perspectives and suggestions. You've certainly provided a complete range of possibilities and interpretations.



I'll be calling IAC customer service tomorrow.
 
If a neighbor makes an effort to complain about kids (whether anonymously through the leasing office or face to face), it's probably for a good reason, and it would be the neighborly thing to do out of courtesy if the parents tell their kids to play quietly as they can. Kids playing range from quiet to shrieking and disturbing everyone. Teach kids to have consideration for neighbors, tell them to play safely out of traffic, and if they want to be kids and be noisy and yell, take your time to take them to all the local parks for quality time with them where they can yell all they want without bothering anyone. If you are tired and want to take a nap I'm sure you'd be very annoyed and frustrated if you could go to sleep only when other kids get tired of yelling. You want to sleep whenever you want.
 
[quote author="gypsyuma" date=1245900477][quote author="no_vaseline" date=1245880375][quote author="gypsyuma" date=1245874560] If anyone is hot and bothered by the noise or sight of children playing, then I would suggest one of those senior communities in Laguna Woods or whereever the hell it is.</blockquote>


Not to belay this point, but your argument is a bit of a red herring.



I would consider a move into Leisure World NOW but they won't allow anyone under 55 PERIOD. I have to wait another 17 years before I meet eligibility.</blockquote>


Maybe you have grounds for discrimination too? LOL Probably not.



But then, don't those single DINK types love the high-rise condos? Maybe there you can find the tranquility you are looking for.



I am all for people getting what they want, but someone cannot move the most family oriented part of OC and then act like kids need to be kept in a cage with their mouths taped shut. That is crazy. Not speaking of you....</blockquote>


No offense taken. And that angle for age discimination has long ago been shot down.........



I'd love to try high rise living, but I have two small dogs and my wife gardens. Plus, I'd have to rent space to keep my car related stuff.



To reclarify - I think the property manager was way out of line, but telling somebody who lives in a condo "if you don't like kids, move to LW" is equally dumb if the kid hater is under 55.
 
[quote author="acpme" date=1245906790]<blockquote>I?m curious what the lawyers on the board have to say because my initial reaction is that this manager just opened a potential lawsuit for his boss....kids have to play... tenants have to deal with the fact that<em> kids make noise</em>.



Doesn?t make sense to ask tenants with families not to let their kids go <em>outside to play</em>.



If he said that your kids are not allowed to <em>play outside</em> to me? I would have burst into laughter.



If I lived in a complex and got called telling me that my children couldn?t <em>play outside</em> knowing full well that there are plenty of other kids who play outside, I?d definitely give that person a hard time.



Can a landlord refuse to allow children to play with toys or<em> play outside </em>because he is worried about liability or is fearful of getting sued? No.



Does the peace and quiet of the community allow the landlord to prevent kids from <em>playing outside</em>? No. </blockquote>


hmm... i think we should be careful to fully understand the points of contention between the original poster and complex mgr... and not interpret the mgr's comments too broadly. re-reading the original post, even by the poster's own account, the areas in question are very specific: <strong>driveways, streets, and walkways</strong>. i agree the mgr was over-zealous in restricting jump rope or any other specific activity, but it also sounds like he might have gotten tripped up or agitated by the questioning, which led to some contradictory or off-the-cuff remarks. but even with only one side of the story, it's clear that the issue at hand is regarding play in areas of traffic.



the legal-ese posted by gypsyuma specifically refers to the landlord being unable to restrict play "outside" or in "common areas". i'm no lawyer, but does anybody know whether there is a legal definition for those terms? does common areas include areas of traffic such as driveways, parking lots, parking stalls, and pedestrian walkways? i agree with the poster who warned about playing lawyer. we should be careful about encouraging others to play hardball with their landlord because at the end of the day, it'll be her and her family that has to deal with what happens should IAC go on the defensive.</blockquote>


It seems to be about what is reasonable verses unreasonable. It seems reasonable to me that children would want to ride bicycles or skate boards. Where do you propose that children would reasonably do such a thing? On a sidewalk or street or driveway, right?
 
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