Installing Solar

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PenguinOrange

Member
Anyone out there install solar and take advantage of all the rebates?

Like to learn more, was it worth the cost, how large of a rebate, who are reputable installers, when does it makes sense (if we don't use much electricity still make sense), what is the payback period?

Thanks!
 
PenguinOrange said:
Anyone out there install solar and take advantage of all the rebates?

Like to learn more, was it worth the cost, how large of a rebate, who are reputable installers, when does it makes sense (if we don't use much electricity still make sense), what is the payback period?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I came across these links:
http://www.gosolarcalifornia.ca.gov/csi/index.php

City of Irvine (Rebates, Incentives and Tax Credits):http://www.cityofirvine.org/cityhal...voltaic_systems/hoa_pv/rebates_pv/default.asp





 
Too many variables to answer your question.  Lease vs purchase?  Enough roof space with correct pitch and angle to equator?  Micro inverter vs central?  Aesthetics vs function?  American vs Chinese panels?

I think most new builders are using Sunpower.  Good financials and reputable.  Finding a great installer is key with proper after installation CS.

If you're not consistently in tier 4-5 on your electricity bill, it's not worth it IMHO from a break even standpoint.  And you should be planning to live in the house for 10 yrs+.  (Ballpark break even is 7-12 years depending on how efficient and price of the panels). If you wanna help the environment, then that's a different issue. 

Research, lots of info out there.  Be an informed buyer and don't rush into this potential major purchase.
 
Yes, we installed a 7.5kv system a year and a half ago.

As OC notes, way too many variables to answer your question.

Payback is in the ten-fifteen year range.

Last year we ran a couple hundred dollar credit.  Even with the credit, you will get a monthly bill, I think ours is $1.77.  Annoying as hell.  $1.77 bill with a $50+ generation credit...  ugh.

Things to note. Panels don't protect you from blackouts.  When the grid is down, the pulls your system offline as they are designed to feed the system.





 
Depending on your HOA you can only install a certain amount of panels.  Stonegate will not allow more than 8 panels depending on the house size.  You're only allowed to install it on one side of your roof versus places like Riverside or Corona you can install it on multiple sides of your roof.  My buddy has 22 panels on all sides of his roof so he can get maximum light efficiency. 

f you want to break down the numbers a 6 panel will generate 12.5kWH which approximately will generate 300kWH per month.  If your electricity bill in Irvine is about $30-50 you're using anywhere from 300-400kWH a month.  So you're savings are around there.  If you're expecting So Cal Edison to pay you back, they buy back electricity from you at $.03 per kWH at the end of the year in which they will provide you a check.  So let's say you have an excess of 300kWH by the end of the year...you'll get $9.00 for your electricity.  These numbers were based on Sunpower.

 
Thanks so much for all the info!

REFERRALS ANYONE?
Anyone have referrals for good local solar installers/contractors? We talked to SolarMax but looking for others to comparison shop.

TIPS
Here's some good info I've been able to find that I thought be useful for others.

GO BACK TO SCHOOL
We attended the SCE Solar Class, definitely suggest it for anyone looking for intro solar information. They have both webinars and meet and greet with local installers. Have the ppt if anyone wants to see it, some good info.https://www.sce.com/wps/portal/home/business/news-events/solar-classes/

INCENTIVES
There's two main incentives right now:
1) CA Solar Initiative which comes as a SCE Rebate, note they are in the last step (step 10) so funds are running out and the rebate is at .20 per watt (calculator here:http://www.csi-epbb.com/)
2) Fed Tax Credit of 30% of net cost (minus CSI SCE Rebate) (http://www.dsireusa.org/incentives/incentive.cfm?Incentive_Code=US37F). Ends 12/31/2016.

Of the two Federal is the biggest one as CSI is at the last step so the incentives are small but high it's a rebate and can cover a couple months of electricity so still not bad :). But not sure if the CSI rebate is so significant to RUSH into solar just to get the rebate before it runs out. Need to do the math.

SCE kind of gave a guideline of $150 energy bill where solar makes sense, below that they say there are other SCE Home Upgrade Energy Incentives that are more efficient.

Another strategy is to phase it in and not try to completely offset your whole bill only get rid of Tier 3 and Tier 4.

The CSI program only allows a homeowners to max out based on their last 12 months, however for new home owners you can use a 2watt/sqft guideline.

But that's really aggressive. With that guideline I had a vendor push for a 9.2KW system! Which is pretty nuts as our first two electric bills since we moved in have been around $100, although this month likely to hit $150 with the summer weather.

DOESN'T PAY TO BE A MINI-SOLAR PLANT
With new construction you can totally max out and whatever excess power you sell back but it's a VERY BAD ROI. You only sell back at 3 or 4 cents depending on current spot prices. Pretty ridiculous since you pay at LEAST 12 cents for the same power. So the ROI math (and there calculators to help) really only make sense to minimize/eliminate your bill and not try to build out your own power plant :).

RESOURCES
As mentioned above the Go Solar CA site has lots of good info, other resources I found good:
SCE Solar Class:https://www.sce.com/wps/portal/home/business/news-events/solar-classes/
Solar Panel Talk Forum:http://www.solarpaneltalk.com
Clean Power Estimator:http://www.gosolarcalifornia.org/tools/clean_power_estimator.php
Other Calculators (first two already mentioned above):http://www.gosolarcalifornia.org/tools/calculators.php
Bid Comparison Sheet:https://www.sce.com/wps/wcm/connect...60bbc7/BidComparisonWorksheet.pdf?MOD=AJPERES
Price Per Watt To Expect to Pay:http://www.californiasolarstatistics.com/reports/quarterly_cost_per_watt/
SCE Price Tiers are:
Tier 1 ($.12): 0-100% of Base
Tier 2 ($.16): 101%-130% of Base
Tier 3 ($.27): 131%-200% of Base
Tier 4 ($.31): 201%+ of Base

The Base is different for everyone and also seasons (summer vs winter). You can find out your specific KWh breakpoints when you log into MyAccount on mySCE. Look under your bill and where it says projected bill. Under there is a link for "How is this calculated" it will show your KWh break-points. Useful if you're trying to estimate how KWHr you need to generate to move to a lower tier.
 
What if you did try to be a mini-solar plant, but instead of selling the excess to SCE, you sold it to your neighbor, reducing their tier 3 and 4?

 
Solar Panels done through the builder, the builder keeps the rebates because they order was placed with the builder and technically they own the home at the time of installation. 

I walked by Arcadia homes in Stonegate and they seem to all have solar panels on them.  It looks like they have allowed more panels per roof on these homes, so I'm wondering if the HOA changed their policy.  Might be good to look into.  If they are allowing a larger amount of max panels per roof, it could be a good return.

 
broda said:
Solar Panels done through the builder, the builder keeps the rebates because they order was placed with the builder and technically they own the home at the time of installation. 
Click to expand...


not sure this is accurate. when we were looking at KBs Whistler in Lake forest the homes came with solar panels and we would have been able to take the federal tax credit on our tax return. at closing they were going to give us a certificate stating the costs we paid for the system to be able to claim the 30% credit. so at KB the buyer of the house would get the credit, not the builder.
 
qwerty said:
broda said:
Solar Panels done through the builder, the builder keeps the rebates because they order was placed with the builder and technically they own the home at the time of installation. 
Click to expand...


not sure this is accurate. when we were looking at KBs Whistler in Lake forest the homes came with solar panels and we would have been able to take the federal tax credit on our tax return. at closing they were going to give us a certificate stating the costs we paid for the system to be able to claim the 30% credit. so at KB the buyer of the house would get the credit, not the builder.
Click to expand...

OK let me rephrase that.  IPAC keeps the rebate.  And that's the reason they told me.  Guess other builders are more generous
 
broda said:
qwerty said:
broda said:
Solar Panels done through the builder, the builder keeps the rebates because they order was placed with the builder and technically they own the home at the time of installation. 
Click to expand...


not sure this is accurate. when we were looking at KBs Whistler in Lake forest the homes came with solar panels and we would have been able to take the federal tax credit on our tax return. at closing they were going to give us a certificate stating the costs we paid for the system to be able to claim the 30% credit. so at KB the buyer of the house would get the credit, not the builder.
Click to expand...

OK let me rephrase that.  IPAC keeps the rebate.  And that's the reason they told me.  Guess other builders are more generous
Click to expand...

Two different things between REBATE which is from California Solar Initiative (CSI) vs the Tax Credit. Since you purchase you should always be able to file the tax CREDIT (goes above the line) and it also can carry over year to year until you use it.

CSI rebate is administrated through SCE and will show up as a rebate on your utility bill once you "power up" :).
 
freedomcm said:
What if you did try to be a mini-solar plant, but instead of selling the excess to SCE, you sold it to your neighbor, reducing their tier 3 and 4?
Click to expand...

Yeah that's ideal, unfortunately the way it works is you install "Net Meter" so during the day you are producing MORE electricity than you need a pushing it into the "grid", this will run your meter "backwards". At night when you're panels are off your meter runs "forward" like usual. At the end of the month they calculate the "net" and either you owe or get a statement credit. At the end of the year if you still have a KWHr credits they pay out at the local spot market price which was 3c/4c.

Unfortunately, you are part of the electric grid so you can't designate/reserve certain watts for a person to reduce another persons bill :). Although, that would be an interesting idea to do some sort of cap and trade system with our electricity :).

irvinehomeowner said:
What's the drain of an electric car? I always thought solar panels would be good if you also drove a Volt or a Leaf.
Click to expand...

I drive a Volt. To do a full charge it's around 10KWh-13KWh which gets you about 35mi-40mi depending on driving pattern. The total battery is around 16KWh but you don't use all of it so it can last. As a comparison Tesla is 60KWh and 85KWh but of course that's for 200mi/265mi range.

So doing the math, if you drive a 35mpg car, then a full charge of 13KWh at tier 3(27c) is around $3.5 and tier 4(31c) is around $4. Still cheaper than a 1 gallon of gas :).

They also have special EV Charging plans where if you charge during non-peak hrs can be as low as 9c - 12c but your peak hrs rates jump or need a separate meter installed.

Designing for solar is like figuring out your withholding, you want to get as close to zero at the end of the year :). Any excess is bought at such a low rate, you'll do better taking that energy and powering an ice cream truck to get more money.

You want solar to get out of tier 3/tier 4 or you want to be green and make the world a better place by reducing your carbon footprint :). I did see many of the new models (like La Cresta) all have solar, think they went with Solar City.

It's either a) it's summer and people are noticing their bills or b) the Irvine buyer is becoming sophisticated and mindful of their environment.

At any rate anyone out there that has used any local Solar Installers that they recommend to get more bids?

Thanks!
 
Good info here!  We're in Northpark and have huge electric bills during the summer even with shades and playing with vents and thermostats.  We've got a huge, flat section of roof facing southwest that would be perfect for panels. And, with the shallow roof angle and being higher than the house behind us, it wouldn't even be visible.

Also, just saw this article yesterday.  Hopefully, in a few years, it could replace the mess with having to sell your surplus during the day and buy it back at night:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/17/business/energy-environment/battery-seen-as-way-to-cut-heat-related-power-losses.html
 
PenguinOrange said:
broda said:
qwerty said:
broda said:
Solar Panels done through the builder, the builder keeps the rebates because they order was placed with the builder and technically they own the home at the time of installation. 
Click to expand...


not sure this is accurate. when we were looking at KBs Whistler in Lake forest the homes came with solar panels and we would have been able to take the federal tax credit on our tax return. at closing they were going to give us a certificate stating the costs we paid for the system to be able to claim the 30% credit. so at KB the buyer of the house would get the credit, not the builder.
Click to expand...

OK let me rephrase that.  IPAC keeps the rebate.  And that's the reason they told me.  Guess other builders are more generous
Click to expand...

Two different things between REBATE which is from California Solar Initiative (CSI) vs the Tax Credit. Since you purchase you should always be able to file the tax CREDIT (goes above the line) and it also can carry over year to year until you use it.

CSI rebate is administrated through SCE and will show up as a rebate on your utility bill once you "power up" :).
Click to expand...

Good news the Tax Credit is on the TOTAL SYSTEM COST, I think I said it was net including any CSI/SCE rebates. Good so you can claim more :).
http://www.gosolarcalifornia.ca.gov/consumers/taxcredits.php
 
I don't that there is a need for solar plans in Irvine.  My electric will goes from about $130-$140 in the winter to about $180-$190 in the summer (it's so high to begin with because I run a pool pump for 6 hours a day which adds about $90-$100/mo to my bill).  My dad's electric bill in Vegas is $250-$300 for about 4-5 months ($80-$100 the rest of the year) so he can use the solar panels. 
 
No Quarter said:
I haven't looked into this yet.  Our home is only a year old and our electric bills are roughly $50 / month.

But I am interested in looking into thermal heat for the pool.  Do you have any information on which providers are better than others?
Click to expand...

Think you want this program CSI-Thermal Programs...http://www.gosolarcalifornia.ca.gov/solarwater/index.php

Where you can find contractors...http://www.gosolarcalifornia.ca.gov/solarwater/contractors.php


eyephone said:
So I just read an article regarding the cost of solar panels. According to Forbes the cost should be around $10k (installation included). But the average residential cost to for solar panels is around $20k.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/toddwoody/2012/07/05/cut-the-price-of-solar-in-half-by-cutting-red-tape/
Click to expand...

Here's more relevant stats based specifically for CA and even locally for Irvine. National averages are okay but in general CA has higher prices than other parts of the nation.

CA collects stats:http://www.californiasolarstatistics.ca.gov/

Right now for <10KW systems it's around $6.06/watt. So a 4KW System (which is what Forbes is using for avg) is about $24K cost in CA. This doesn't include the .20c/KW Rebate (-$800) or 30% tax credit (-$7.2K). So net in this scenario is just $16K bringing the $/watt to $4/watt. As you can see the Fed Credit is a big deal.

You can use the "Find a Solar Contractor" to pull local installers which shows the avg $/watt PER installer:
http://www.californiasolarstatistics.ca.gov/search/contractor/results/?sort=project_ct&distance=10&agency=PG%26E&install_date=all&input=irvine&lookup_by=city&dir=desc

Thanks!
 
@Penguin - I just read  that incentives for Caifornia will decline over the life of the Program. So if a person is on the fence weather to get it or not, they should do it sooner than later.
 
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