In OC Register...Realtors go after blogger who says they lie (IrvineRenter)

[usctrojancpa]

I don't know why this is such a surprise. Realtors lie all the time. Listing the square footage, the yard size, even the number of rooms occasionally.

Besides some of them being arrogant idiots who don't know how to reply to an email and/or a voicemail in a timely manner, the fact they get away with inflating square footage, lot size, and/or room count is very irritating.  Next time I see something like that on MLS, I'm going to use the REPORT button function (although I'm not sure if that'll solve things).  > 

 

[IndieDev]

I don't know why this is such a surprise. Realtors lie all the time. Listing the square footage, the yard size, even the number of rooms occasionally.

Besides some of them being arrogant idiots who don't know how to reply to an email and/or a voicemail in a timely manner, the fact they get away with inflating square footage, lot size, and/or room count is very irriating.  Next time I see something like that on MLS, I'm going to use the REPORT button function (although I'm not sure if that'll solve things).  >

I went to a showing with a business associate who was interested in a small home in a gated community in Tustin Ranch. The listing said:

1,600 Square Feet
3 bedrooms

We get to the open house, and the house looks to be about 1,400 square feet. That's okay we thought, could be the layout. We go upstairs to look at the bedrooms. We find the master bedroom, a second guest bedroom, and get this... an open loft (two walls, with an opening towards the hallway and stairs) with a sign next to the stairs that says "Loft can be converted to third bedroom for less than $7,500!"

???

 

[usctrojancpa]

I don't know why this is such a surprise. Realtors lie all the time. Listing the square footage, the yard size, even the number of rooms occasionally.

Besides some of them being arrogant idiots who don't know how to reply to an email and/or a voicemail in a timely manner, the fact they get away with inflating square footage, lot size, and/or room count is very irriating.  Next time I see something like that on MLS, I'm going to use the REPORT button function (although I'm not sure if that'll solve things).  >

I went to a showing with a business associate who was interested in a small home in a gated community in Tustin Ranch. The listing said:

1,600 Square Feet
3 bedrooms

We get to the open house, and the house looks to be about 1,400 square feet. That's okay we thought, could be the layout. We go upstairs to look at the bedrooms. We find the master bedroom, a second guest bedroom, and get this... an open loft (two walls, with an opening towards the hallway and stairs) with a sign next to the stairs that says "Loft can be converted to third bedroom for less than $7,500!"

???

Oh I believe that, I've seen that before.  I can count on several hands when listing agents add an extra bedroom on when there is a loft, den, or office (I've never had the pleasure of having a sign up telling my buyers and I how much it would cost to convert the space into a bedroom).  Last time I checked the definition of a room was at least 1 window, a closet, and 4 walls. 

 

[socal78]

Besides some of them being arrogant idiots who don't know how to reply to an email and/or a voicemail in a timely manner

That reminds me... I sent you a PM three days ago but have not heard back. We're cutting it too close now, so, never-mind.

 

[usctrojancpa]

Besides some of them being arrogant idiots who don't know how to reply to an email and/or a voicemail in a timely manner

That reminds me... I sent you a PM three days ago but have not heard back. We're cutting it too close now, so, never-mind.

Opps, sorry about that....it came in the middle of a few other PMs that I got.  I'm replying now.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

So IrvineRenter posted another article yesterday about his "plight":
http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/bl...explain-charges-demands-irvinerenter-silence/

I tried to refrain from bringing this up but all this talk about "restricting free speech" and "realtors should be honest" just accentuated the fact that IR himself closed down the forums restricting the members' free speech and he never really explained the real reasons why. So I posted this comment:

@IR:

We are a referral-based marketing group who happens to refer to a single agent because we could only find one who would treat customers appropriately. Given the behavior of realtors, finding any agent willing to do the right thing is nearly impossible.

I may take flak for this but this is not exactly true. Shevy was the ONLY agent ?willing to do the right thing? that you could find?

What does ?referral-based marketing group? mean? Especially if the referrals only go to one brokerage.

Since we are on the subject of free speech and honesty, let?s finally get this out? what were the real reasons the IHB forums were silenced?

Look, I respect your work quite a bit, but please don?t fall into that ?spin? that your motives are philanthropic, that will put you on the same ground you are accusing other realtors of. And I don?t fault you one bit because everyone needs to get paid? but it?s not exactly ?holier than thou? over here.

That?s the problem when you try to mix op-ed in with monetization, sometimes the ideals don?t go with the practices.

His response addressed only the Shevy thing... he conveniently sidestepped the forum question. Iron Knee.

 

[usctrojancpa]

So IrvineRenter posted another article yesterday about his "plight":
http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/bl...explain-charges-demands-irvinerenter-silence/

I tried to refrain from bringing this up but all this talk about "restricting free speech" and "realtors should be honest" just accentuated the fact that IR himself closed down the forums restricting the members' free speech and he never really explained the real reasons why. So I posted this comment:

@IR:

We are a referral-based marketing group who happens to refer to a single agent because we could only find one who would treat customers appropriately. Given the behavior of realtors, finding any agent willing to do the right thing is nearly impossible.

I may take flak for this but this is not exactly true. Shevy was the ONLY agent ?willing to do the right thing? that you could find?

What does ?referral-based marketing group? mean? Especially if the referrals only go to one brokerage.

Since we are on the subject of free speech and honesty, let?s finally get this out? what were the real reasons the IHB forums were silenced?

Look, I respect your work quite a bit, but please don?t fall into that ?spin? that your motives are philanthropic, that will put you on the same ground you are accusing other realtors of. And I don?t fault you one bit because everyone needs to get paid? but it?s not exactly ?holier than thou? over here.

That?s the problem when you try to mix op-ed in with monetization, sometimes the ideals don?t go with the practices.

His response addressed only the Shevy thing... he conveniently sidestepped the forum question. Iron Knee.

If you didn't already read between the lines, that comment in bold was a bit of a jab at IR2 and myself.  As I mentioned before, he had approached us about doing what Shevy but he was a bit too greedy at the expensive of my clients. 

Also, it looks like he has also hired a lawyer and is going after OCAR for trying to silence his right to free speech.  It'll be interesting to see how all this plays out.

 

[shokunin]

IR knows he FUBAR'd how he handled his business transition from blog to bankroll, using the IHB name and site traffic meter as the catalyst to start his RE "referral based marketing group".  How Shevy was introduced, questions about why IR2 and USC were not even in included since it's merely a "referral"??

He knew IR2 and other realtors could/would take leads away from his bankroll

He knew there would be contradictory opinions on the market from the blog vs forum.  Continuing to do so could impact his "credibility".

However, he needed the forum traffic stats to get people onto the site

Unfortunately the major traffic drive to the site was the forums, his blog secondary in a sense.  Anyone else notice the number of "astute observations" has been dwindling....  he's lucky the OCAR posted these allegations, it's the booster he probably needed.

 

[usctrojancpa]

IR knows he FUBAR'd how he handled his business transition from blog to bankroll, using the IHB name and site traffic meter as the catalyst to start his RE "referral based marketing group".  How Shevy was introduced, questions about why IR2 and USC were not even in included since it's merely a "referral"??

He knew IR2 and other realtors could/would take leads away from his bankroll

He knew there would be contradictory opinions on the market from the blog vs forum.  Continuing to do so could impact his "credibility".

However, he needed the forum traffic stats to get people onto the site

Unfortunately the major traffic drive to the site was the forums, his blog secondary in a sense.  Anyone else notice the number of "astute observations" has been dwindling....  he's lucky the OCAR posted these allegations, it's the booster he probably needed.

Honestly, he had a great thing with the forum.  So many eye balls and so much traffic.  He could have easily monetized the site by having realtors like me pay a site sponsorship and/or a referral fee (which is what I brought as a suggestion to him since that's what one of my friends who founded ClubLexus did)  along with putting up targeted advertizing up (movers, mortgage folks, contractors, etc).  The sky was the limit, but his short term greed clouded good judgement.  Not sure what he discussed with IR2, but he had wanted 30-40% of the gross commission from my IHB sales.  When I asked him..."well what about my buyers who I normally kickback that kind of commission" his response was...."well I guess that'll have to come out of your share of the commission."  My decision was pretty easy and about a month after our meeting the IHB forums were closed.  As my grandfather used to tell me (translated)..."the greed always lose twice" and that's exactly what happened to Larry.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

I tried to refrain from bringing this up but all this talk about "restricting free speech" and "realtors should be honest" just accentuated the fact that IR himself closed down the forums restricting the members' free speech and he never really explained the real reasons why. So I posted this comment:

He didn't restrict your free speech at all, in fact you are still speaking just not using his resources.

I'm all for free speech but that does not mean I have to invite strangers to my house so they can exercise their right for free speech while eating my food.

Heh... now you're getting technical.

It's not really about "free speech" persay... that term's usage is abused so much... it's more the overall theme IR is pushing on his blog. IR is claiming that the OCAR is trying to "silence" him and take away his "free speech"... is that really what they are doing? Aren't they just trying to protect their member's business? So why did IR (or Zovall) "silence" the IHB forums? So while he is condemning OCAR for their actions... isn't that a bit ironic?

 

[samuroo]

IR closing his forums on HIS site is completely different from OCAR trying to shut IR up regardless of where he's saying it.  Is IR coming here on TI telling you guys to stop speaking poorly of his own personal business decisions?

 

[shokunin]

Honestly, he had a great thing with the forum.  So many eye balls and so much traffic.  He could have easily monetized the site by having realtors like me pay a site sponsorship and/or a referral fee (which is what I brought as a suggestion to him since that's what one of my friends who founded ClubLexus did)  along with putting up targeted advertizing up (movers, mortgage folks, contractors, etc).  The sky was the limit, but his short term greed clouded good judgement.

+1.  IHB could have been a great business opportunity.  The key is traffic, draw more people on a daily basis with the right demographics and you can make some serious $$ in advertising and other fees.  All without having to invest in "cash-flow" rental properties in vegas.  All he had to do was keep blogging, moderating the forums and adding in value-added content/services/vendors/marketplace. 

Alas the forums were starting to get too snarky in the end anyways... several of the members needed to chill out on their views.  Nevertheless the days of graph, trooper, BK, no_vas and the rest are long gone...

 

[usctrojancpa]

Honestly, he had a great thing with the forum.  So many eye balls and so much traffic.  He could have easily monetized the site by having realtors like me pay a site sponsorship and/or a referral fee (which is what I brought as a suggestion to him since that's what one of my friends who founded ClubLexus did)  along with putting up targeted advertizing up (movers, mortgage folks, contractors, etc).  The sky was the limit, but his short term greed clouded good judgement.

+1.  IHB could have been a great business opportunity.  The key is traffic, draw more people on a daily basis with the right demographics and you can make some serious $$ in advertising and other fees.  All without having to invest in "cash-flow" rental properties in vegas.  All he had to do was keep blogging, moderating the forums and adding in value-added content/services/vendors/marketplace. 

Alas the forums were starting to get too snarky in the end anyways... several of the members needed to chill out on their views.  Nevertheless the days of graph, trooper, BK, no_vas and the rest are long gone...

Yeah, those were the good old days. 

 

[shokunin]

When that would be so easy then no one would invest in real estate and everyone would simply build web sites and forums. There is some serious competition for the advertising $. By the way I think forums are not a must have feature of sites to succeed, they are more nice-to-have.

Maybe I'm wrong and I should start a 'Dora the explorer' forum and try to cash in. Hey, Michael Arrington got maybe 10-20 millions when he sold his blog (TechCrunch) to AOL.

True, not easy to accomplish, but localized advertising, could be done effectively.  I never said it be easy, but there was opportunity.  I don't know Larry personally, but with the right business development staff, you could have had all sorts of sales to promote small businesses.  It seems that the audience was quite affluent, late twenties on up, significant cash, good with finances, and they all would  needed landscaping, general contractors for remodeling, flooring expertise, realtors, painters, etc, etc.  The demographics were there, though he never attempted to move in this direction and instead is focusing on cash-flow properties in Vegas. 

Think of it like a gardenweb, redfin, angieslist, and groupon for the OC.

 

[usctrojancpa]

When that would be so easy then no one would invest in real estate and everyone would simply build web sites and forums. There is some serious competition for the advertising $. By the way I think forums are not a must have feature of sites to succeed, they are more nice-to-have.

Maybe I'm wrong and I should start a 'Dora the explorer' forum and try to cash in. Hey, Michael Arrington got maybe 10-20 millions when he sold his blog (TechCrunch) to AOL.

True, not easy to accomplish, but localized advertising, could be done effectively.  I never said it be easy, but there was opportunity.  I don't know Larry personally, but with the right business development staff, you could have had all sorts of sales to promote small businesses.  It seems that the audience was quite affluent, late twenties on up, significant cash, good with finances, and they all would  needed landscaping, general contractors for remodeling, flooring expertise, realtors, painters, etc, etc.  The demographics were there, though he never attempted to move in this direction and instead is focusing on cash-flow properties in Vegas. 

Think of it like a gardenweb, redfin, angieslist, and groupon for the OC.

Yup, it could have been a one-stop shop for buyers, sellers, renters, and landlords of Irvine and Orange County.  The forum drew a lot of eye balls and that's where the value was.  There was good content being provided by the members so it was a good snowball effect.  The friend that had started ClubLexus used like $25k of his own money to start it and sold it for like 20x times that in about 5 years.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

IR closing his forums on HIS site is completely different from OCAR trying to shut IR up regardless of where he's saying it.  Is IR coming here on TI telling you guys to stop speaking poorly of his own personal business decisions?

Again... technically yes.

What I'm talking about is he feels that is it unfair for OCAR to pursue such actions. While it may not be advisable for OCAR to do so, if a realtor/member has a complaint against IR, does OCAR not have the right to take action on that complaint? Isn't that what OCAR is for?

And whether we disagree with it or not, my point is if someone calls you or your industry dishonest... should you not respond? IR (or actually he says it was zovall) didn't feel that the forums were in line with their business model, so they closed them... that was their response. Should we drive 50 miles to picket their action?

I just think it's overblown and by posting a second article, it seems to me IR is looking more for page views and that's fine, no such thing as bad press. But don't paint yourself like a victim... I am actually a bit astounded that people are calling this a "free speech" thing.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

I think I need to lawyer up before I post on the IHB.

When did posting opinions on a blog become testifying in the Supreme Court?

 

[IndieDev]

It's not a free speech issue, but OCAR is going to pettifog the issue until they find some off the wall violation to slap IR with because they don't like the things he's saying (which are mostly true). That's despicable.

 

[irvinerealtor]

pettifog (verb): to breathe ever-so-lightly on a mirror.

alternate: having the ability to qualify for a loan circa 2000-2006.