How to save $100/year without switching to Geico

Daedalus_IHB

Daedalus_IHB

New member
<em>*In the spirit of saving money and becoming a bit more eco-friendly*</em>

Yesterday I started playing with my <a href="http://www.p3international.com/products/special/P4400/P4400-CE.html">killawatt</a> doodad. As an engineer, quantifying things is a compulsive need. And no surprise I've got a lot of electricity-devouring geek-things around the house. Modems, routers, external drives, etc. There are a handful of things on my desk that are always on, even when my computer is off. Here are some readings, in watts:

Cable modem: 5

Router: 7

External DVD drive: 8

External hard drive: 8

Monitor 1 (off): 1

Monitor 2 (off): 4

Printer: 2

Speakers: 2

.

Even the various battery backup systems take their cut. All told, with my computer "off" the stuff on and under my desk uses 55 watts. Over a year this works out to 482 KW-hours. I'm solidly in the "Tier 3" power price bracket, which means my marginal cost for electricity right now is about 25 cents per KW-hour. If I were to unplug everything at my desk, I would save over $120/year. I figure I should knock off 20% from this for the time I'm actually using the equipment (thanks IHB %-P ), so roughly $100 savings in a year. The only difference is I need to turn the root battery box on and off. I will probably put the modem and router on a separate power strip so I can access the net via my laptop without powering up.

.

Some things, like lamps, are off when they're off. Modern TVs and other appliances often have some measure of energy use even when they're off (some just to receive the signal from the remote control). I'm not saying to unplug things that keep time or have "volatile" memory settings, but there's potential to save a bit here and there. My laptop charger drains a couple watts even if the laptop isn't plugged in.

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A little FYI:

Gasoline is still very cheap, relative to what Edison thinks energy is worth. A gallon of gas costs about $4.50. The same amount of energy from my wall outlet (@ Tier 3 pricing) would cost me $9.00.
 
I'm in the same boat... Cable modem, router, USB hub, two printers, etc. The problem is that if everything is off, the modem has to be powered up first, then the router, then I can turn on the laptop computer and other stuff. So all of the peripherals stay on. I know of no relatively inexpensive device that would allow me to properly sequence a power up cycle. Are you aware of anything that would accomplish that?



By the way, If your comparison of electrical costs vs gasoline is correct, and I have no reason to doubt it, then it brings up a real issue with plug-in electric cars. Higher cost "fuel" to fill up!
 
We have all our electrical devices hooked to surge protectors. When we aren't using the devices, we shut off the surge protectors. I'm hoping this helps with phantom power (I think that's what it is called). I think it's working, we have a 2,000 sq. ft. house, and our monthly power bill is about $40 per month. And we both work out of the house.
 
[quote author="CalGal" date=1217990502]We have all our electrical devices hooked to surge protectors. When we aren't using the devices, we shut off the surge protectors. I'm hoping this helps with phantom power (I think that's what it is called). I think it's working, we have a 2,000 sq. ft. house, and our monthly power bill is about $40 per month. And we both work out of the house.</blockquote>


You must not run the air conditioner either. :eek:hh:
 
[quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1217992668][quote author="CalGal" date=1217990502]We have all our electrical devices hooked to surge protectors. When we aren't using the devices, we shut off the surge protectors. I'm hoping this helps with phantom power (I think that's what it is called). I think it's working, we have a 2,000 sq. ft. house, and our monthly power bill is about $40 per month. And we both work out of the house.</blockquote>


You must not run the air conditioner either. :eek:hh:</blockquote>


Benefits of not living in Irvine, no AC bill at the coast.
 
ahh man.. I gotta disconnect my 2KW stereo amplifier.... :lol:



I think somebody needs to come up with a drier that stops drying when the clothes are "80%" there. That alone would save your ALOt of energy.

We are tier 1, but there are some months we keep the AC on a steady 77 degrees. We would probably save more, although we rarely come home before 7 during most days.



good luck

-bix
 
[quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1217992668][quote author="CalGal" date=1217990502]We have all our electrical devices hooked to surge protectors. When we aren't using the devices, we shut off the surge protectors. I'm hoping this helps with phantom power (I think that's what it is called). I think it's working, we have a 2,000 sq. ft. house, and our monthly power bill is about $40 per month. And we both work out of the house.</blockquote>


You must not run the air conditioner either. :eek:hh:</blockquote>
Surprisingly, our house stays really cool. When we lived in Turtle Ridge Apartments, we had the a/c on all the time - mostly to keep the windows shut to avoid the noise. Plus we were in a 3 story - so it got mighty hot on the 3rd floor. (I'll never live in a 3-story again).



We have run the a/c a couple of times where we are now. It was mostly at night when we didn't get the cool breeze that we usually get.



We also keep the blinds shut during the morning sun - that helps a lot.
 
[quote author="GoIllini" date=1217972359]I'm in the same boat... Cable modem, router, USB hub, two printers, etc. The problem is that if everything is off, the modem has to be powered up first, then the router, then I can turn on the laptop computer and other stuff. So all of the peripherals stay on. I know of no relatively inexpensive device that would allow me to properly sequence a power up cycle. Are you aware of anything that would accomplish that?



By the way, If your comparison of electrical costs vs gasoline is correct, and I have no reason to doubt it, then it brings up a real issue with plug-in electric cars. Higher cost "fuel" to fill up!</blockquote>


I just turn on the modem and router at the same time. By the time the computer boots up the 2 are synched and working. Is there a downside to this?



The big advantage of plug-in electric cars is their efficiency. You can define waste in different ways but I think gasoline cars waste about 85% of the energy they consume. Electric cars have some loss in getting the power from the wall into the battery, and some loss going from the battery to the motor, but overall they're decent. The Tesla was advertised at costing 2-3 cents per mile. Not sure what they're assumptions are, but it's certainly cheaper than the 28 cents per mile my sedan costs in gas alone.
 
[quote author="Daedalus" date=1217996205]I just turn on the modem and router at the same time. By the time the computer boots up the 2 are synched and working. Is there a downside to this?



The big advantage of plug-in electric cars is their efficiency. You can define waste in different ways but I think gasoline cars waste about 85% of the energy they consume. Electric cars have some loss in getting the power from the wall into the battery, and some loss going from the battery to the motor, but overall they're decent. The Tesla was advertised at costing 2-3 cents per mile. Not sure what they're assumptions are, but it's certainly cheaper than the 28 cents per mile my sedan costs in gas alone.</blockquote>


My cable modem and router don't work as well together. I need to give each at least 30 seconds warm-up time before moving to the next device in the chain from modem to computer. Otherwise, the computer does not get a valid IP address and I have to start all over. So it's either leave them on all the time, or waste a bit of time and crawl around on the floor to turn thing on in the right sequence. I'm lazy, so they just stay on.



As far as the efficiency of electric car goes, I HOPE the hype is true. But I guess I'm going to have to drag out the old slide rule and do some back-of-the-envelope calculations to make my own estimate. (Actually, I'll use an Excel spreadsheet, but will rely upon a prized possession, (<em>The Engineer's Manual</em> published in about 1913, for the conversion factors.) I keep the slide rule in a shadow-box frame with the following printed on the front: <em>In Emergency, Break Glass!</em>
 
[quote author="Daedalus" date=1217996205]

The big advantage of plug-in electric cars is their efficiency. You can define waste in different ways but I think gasoline cars waste about 85% of the energy they consume. Electric cars have some loss in getting the power from the wall into the battery, and some loss going from the battery to the motor, but overall they're decent. The Tesla was advertised at costing 2-3 cents per mile. Not sure what they're assumptions are, but it's certainly cheaper than the 28 cents per mile my sedan costs in gas alone.</blockquote>


While I generally agree with you about electric cars, my issue is the cost. The Tesla is going to cost WAAAAY more up front. You'd have to keep the car for DECADES to get the payout to work. Unless gasoline goes up to 30-40-50 a gallon, we just aren't there yet.



Plus the storage capacity of batteries just aren't there unless we go with exotic batteries. My experience and time spent working with battery units as well as electrical systems may be relatively esoteric, but it has taught me one thing, batteries are expensive to do any real work.



Unfortunately I believe we may not have a choice....

good luck

-bix
 
[quote author="GoIllini" date=1218005656]I'll use an Excel spreadsheet, but will rely upon a prized possession, (<em>The Engineer's Manual</em> published in about 1913, for the conversion factors.) </blockquote>


Craziness. I've been digging through my copy in the past couple days to try to solve a convection problem. I have the 2nd edition, printed in 1947. Not as comprehensive as Mark's, but it has the essentials. Bought it for $2 at a used book sale in high school, but didn't find it useful till college. Not sure how I knew.



[quote author="biscuitninja" date=1218006864]

While I generally agree with you about electric cars, my issue is the cost. The Tesla is going to cost WAAAAY more up front. You'd have to keep the car for DECADES to get the payout to work. Unless gasoline goes up to 30-40-50 a gallon, we just aren't there yet.



Plus the storage capacity of batteries just aren't there unless we go with exotic batteries. My experience and time spent working with battery units as well as electrical systems may be relatively esoteric, but it has taught me one thing, batteries are expensive to do any real work.



Unfortunately I believe we may not have a choice....

good luck

-bix</blockquote>
I completely agree about the challenges with the batteries, but only recently has the pace of R&D;been so great. I don't see any reason not to expect more improvements will be found relatively quick. Personally I don't need a car that can go 200 miles between charges. Get me 40-50 miles, drop 500 lbs from the car, and I would be a happy commuter. In an electric car future, I see each household having different-sized packs, each designed or accessorized for easy changes. Light ones for daily commuting and big ones for long trips. No sense carrying the weight just so you can carry the weight, right? Of course we can also hope for breakthroughs in solar cells, motors, bearings and lubricants to make the batteries even smaller.



Let's be honest and admit the Tesla was never about saving money on gas. ;) I think they do have a family sedan planned that would come in under $30k, or no?
 
[quote author="Daedalus" date=1218011211]

I completely agree about the challenges with the batteries, but only recently has the pace of R&D;been so great. I don't see any reason not to expect more improvements will be found relatively quick. Personally I don't need a car that can go 200 miles between charges. Get me 40-50 miles, drop 500 lbs from the car, and I would be a happy commuter. In an electric car future, I see each household having different-sized packs, each designed or accessorized for easy changes. Light ones for daily commuting and big ones for long trips. No sense carrying the weight just so you can carry the weight, right? Of course we can also hope for breakthroughs in solar cells, motors, bearings and lubricants to make the batteries even smaller.



Let's be honest and admit the Tesla was never about saving money on gas. ;) I think they do have a family sedan planned that would come in under $30k, or no?</blockquote>


I did work with a guy who was the lead engineer for GM when they were working with the EV1. They had lithium metal hydride batteries which WOULD give a 300 mile range and OUTSTANDING performance. But the cost would be around 200k for JUST the battery pack.



To me they HAD the tiger by the tail and were winning. Too bad the upper officials put the kibosh on it CRUSHED all the tooling as well everything else.



If they had continued they would OWN everything.... Oh well, live and learn.



To me the best thing would be higher efficiency engines with both battery capacity and better motors will deliver pretty good performance. On top of that they should be working on better driving skills as well as better energy control, these two things will save alot of fuel. As well as slowing down the crazy driver.... ( :zip: )
 
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