How secure is your job?

[quote author="effenheimer" date=1228924452][quote author="Trooper" date=1228613600]My business is too good..... not a chance.</blockquote>


Rationalization of drug laws would knock the prison/law enforcement industrial complex on its ass.



Not bloody likely, but just envisioning how it could happen.</blockquote>


I think the bigger problem for the police/fire/prison workers is going to be the shortfalls in local government tax revenues. These unions negotiated lucrative benefit packages when tax revenues were rising rapidly with the housing bubble. Local governments will be forced to cut back as revenues decline.
 
[quote author="PANDA" date=1228954091]

I got my MBA and it was a complete waste of money being flushed down the toliet. My opinion of course differs for other professional degrees like JD, MD, Masters in Engineering, and a CPA, which i consider REAL professional degrees and certificate. I wish that I had been smart like IPO and put that $60,000 of worthless MBA tuition towards a down payment of a detached condo in Irvine back in 2001. Better yet, put that $60,000 as seed money for pursuing your entrepeneurial ventures. Oh well, there is nothing i can do about my past, and only do my best to make the right choices for the future.</blockquote>


I'm with you there. My finance degree was a complete waste of time and money. Half of the proffessors were recent graduates who knew jack squat. Their style of teaching was simply to read from the book and have us memorize bold faced words. What a joke. When it came to finance classes it was fun to point out their mistakes in teaching, and offer better solutions and examples. I could have taken over some of those classes and probably done a better job teaching....anyways. I'm still bitter that I spent the money and time on my 4yr degree. That money combined with the little pile I had then would have made me 2-3 times further along today. (thanks for bringing it up and spoiling my day... ;))



Saying this, there is no way in hell I'm going back to get an MBA. I am studying for my CFA examinations though and after speaking with many individuals they view the CFA higher than having an MBA. (In the finance world) So 1,000 dollars for a CFA or 40K for an MBA...hmmm....
 
[quote author="blackvault_cm" date=1228956912][quote author="PANDA" date=1228954091]

I got my MBA and it was a complete waste of money being flushed down the toliet. My opinion of course differs for other professional degrees like JD, MD, Masters in Engineering, and a CPA, which i consider REAL professional degrees and certificate. I wish that I had been smart like IPO and put that $60,000 of worthless MBA tuition towards a down payment of a detached condo in Irvine back in 2001. Better yet, put that $60,000 as seed money for pursuing your entrepeneurial ventures. Oh well, there is nothing i can do about my past, and only do my best to make the right choices for the future.</blockquote>


I'm with you there. My finance degree was a complete waste of time and money. Half of the proffessors were recent graduates who knew jack squat. Their style of teaching was simply to read from the book and have us memorize bold faced words. What a joke. When it came to finance classes it was fun to point out their mistakes in teaching, and offer better solutions and examples. I could have taken over some of those classes and probably done a better job teaching....anyways. I'm still bitter that I spent the money and time on my 4yr degree. That money combined with the little pile I had then would have made me 2-3 times further along today. (thanks for bringing it up and spoiling my day... ;))



Saying this, there is no way in hell I'm going back to get an MBA. I am studying for my CFA examinations though and after speaking with many individuals they view the CFA higher than having an MBA. (In the finance world) So 1,000 dollars for a CFA or 40K for an MBA...hmmm....</blockquote>


BV,



What type of jobs require a CFA? I think all the fund managers in Janus has a CFA. Do you know if the CFA certificate is harder to pass than the CPA in California?



Panda thinks you and Trojan should start your own capital managment company teaching the Average Joe how to invest during the Great Depression II. It will be like the "mini me" version of the Europacific Capital. Sometimes, getting laid off could be a tremendous blessing if you see it as an opportunity to start something of your own that you are truly passionate about.



Just Curious BV? What is your return so far year to date?
 
[quote author="PANDA" date=1228957452][quote author="blackvault_cm" date=1228956912][quote author="PANDA" date=1228954091]

I got my MBA and it was a complete waste of money being flushed down the toliet. My opinion of course differs for other professional degrees like JD, MD, Masters in Engineering, and a CPA, which i consider REAL professional degrees and certificate. I wish that I had been smart like IPO and put that $60,000 of worthless MBA tuition towards a down payment of a detached condo in Irvine back in 2001. Better yet, put that $60,000 as seed money for pursuing your entrepeneurial ventures. Oh well, there is nothing i can do about my past, and only do my best to make the right choices for the future.</blockquote>


I'm with you there. My finance degree was a complete waste of time and money. Half of the proffessors were recent graduates who knew jack squat. Their style of teaching was simply to read from the book and have us memorize bold faced words. What a joke. When it came to finance classes it was fun to point out their mistakes in teaching, and offer better solutions and examples. I could have taken over some of those classes and probably done a better job teaching....anyways. I'm still bitter that I spent the money and time on my 4yr degree. That money combined with the little pile I had then would have made me 2-3 times further along today. (thanks for bringing it up and spoiling my day... ;))



Saying this, there is no way in hell I'm going back to get an MBA. I am studying for my CFA examinations though and after speaking with many individuals they view the CFA higher than having an MBA. (In the finance world) So 1,000 dollars for a CFA or 40K for an MBA...hmmm....</blockquote>


BV,



What type of jobs require a CFA? I think all the fund managers in Janus had a CFA. Is the CFA certificate harder to pass than the CPA in California?



Panda thinks you and Trojan should start your own capital managment company teaching the Average Joe how to invest during the Great Depression. Sometimes, getting laid off could be a tremendous blessing if you see it as an opportunity to start something of your own that you are truly passionate about.</blockquote>


Pretty much anything finance related. CFA's are highly sought after. The thing with hiring an individual with an MBA is that you don't know what you are getting unless they are from Harvard or another Ivy League school. You don't really know how much they know because their knowledge is hard to compare to other MBA programs. CFA is easy to compare and those looking for CFA's know what it takes to pass one and the knowledge you should have. So its a safer route and a better route to hire CFAs.



I know a few people that have both CFA and a CPA, and they said CFA is harder and takes longer. (3yrs to complete assuming you pass each level). But which is harder depends on the person. If your passion is finance then CFA should be easy as it is to me. I HATE accounting with a passion so I bet I fail the CPA as info will be harder to retain if it doesn't interest you as much.
 
I have an MBA as well as an MS in Finance. I also have a CFA and I agree that having a CFA is the most important, although having the other degrees doesn't hurt.



I am a portfolio manager and also was a sell-side analyst back in Chicago- a CFA is a must! And it does put everyone on a level playing field because these exams are not a cake walk.
 
[quote author="blackvault_cm" date=1228958163]



I know a few people that have both CFA and a CPA, and they said CFA is harder and takes longer. (3yrs to complete assuming you pass each level). But which is harder depends on the person. If your passion is finance then CFA should be easy as it is to me. I HATE accounting with a passion so I bet I fail the CPA as info will be harder to retain if it doesn't interest you as much.</blockquote>


Accounting is the sweet science... CPA designations used to require audit hours/experience, which was probably far harder than passing the exam. Low pay, long hours. That's not the case any longer. CPAs and CFAs are totally different animals. If you want to be able to handle the books of a company, a CFA will get you nowhere. No employer I have seen has ever asked for a CFA for its Controller or CFO. They still want CPA and MBA.
 
[quote author="IrvineCommuter" date=1228960103]I am pretty safe. . .attorneys create jobs for each other. :)</blockquote>


<a href="http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/03/news/economy/legal_industry/index.htm?postversion=2008120305">Not always.</a>
 
[quote author="IrvineCommuter" date=1228960103]I am pretty safe. . .attorneys create jobs for each other. :)</blockquote>


Attorneys stretch out cases by postponement and create numerous forensic studies to rack up billable hours.
 
[quote author="ipoplaya" date=1228960023][quote author="blackvault_cm" date=1228958163]



I know a few people that have both CFA and a CPA, and they said CFA is harder and takes longer. (3yrs to complete assuming you pass each level). But which is harder depends on the person. If your passion is finance then CFA should be easy as it is to me. I HATE accounting with a passion so I bet I fail the CPA as info will be harder to retain if it doesn't interest you as much.</blockquote>


Accounting is the sweet science... CPA designations used to require audit hours/experience, which was probably far harder than passing the exam. Low pay, long hours. That's not the case any longer. CPAs and CFAs are totally different animals. If you want to be able to handle the books of a company, a CFA will get you nowhere. No employer I have seen has ever asked for a CFA for its Controller or CFO. They still want CPA and MBA.</blockquote>


I agree. Thats why you need to do what you want to do. I don't want to be a CFO let alone a controller. I enjoy managing capital, equity trading as well as engineering various financial models and innovative investments. For this...CPA is garbage.
 
[quote author="JoonB" date=1228958716]I have an MBA as well as an MS in Finance. I also have a CFA and I agree that having a CFA is the most important, although having the other degrees doesn't hurt.



I am a portfolio manager and also was a sell-side analyst back in Chicago- a CFA is a must! And it does put everyone on a level playing field because these exams are not a cake walk.</blockquote>


I'm jealous that you are a portfolio manager. I always wanted to work for a financial institution, but never actually did it. I instead went on day trading for past 10 years. This is something, I'm still wanting to do so thats why I'm working on the CFA and for credibility if I decide to start a capital management firm.
 
I do love what I do- our investment process is quant-based with a fundamental overlay. Our optimization strategies and risk models were built in-house. We have some serious PhDs that have created Barra-type risk models and optimizers



Having been on the sell side in research and now on the buyside, I would never go back to an investment banking firm.
 
[quote author="blackvault_cm" date=1228956912][quote author="PANDA" date=1228954091]

I got my MBA and it was a complete waste of money being flushed down the toliet. My opinion of course differs for other professional degrees like JD, MD, Masters in Engineering, and a CPA, which i consider REAL professional degrees and certificate. I wish that I had been smart like IPO and put that $60,000 of worthless MBA tuition towards a down payment of a detached condo in Irvine back in 2001. Better yet, put that $60,000 as seed money for pursuing your entrepeneurial ventures. Oh well, there is nothing i can do about my past, and only do my best to make the right choices for the future.</blockquote>


I'm with you there. My finance degree was a complete waste of time and money. Half of the proffessors were recent graduates who knew jack squat. Their style of teaching was simply to read from the book and have us memorize bold faced words. What a joke. When it came to finance classes it was fun to point out their mistakes in teaching, and offer better solutions and examples. I could have taken over some of those classes and probably done a better job teaching....anyways. I'm still bitter that I spent the money and time on my 4yr degree. That money combined with the little pile I had then would have made me 2-3 times further along today. (thanks for bringing it up and spoiling my day... ;))



Saying this, there is no way in hell I'm going back to get an MBA. I am studying for my CFA examinations though and after speaking with many individuals they view the CFA higher than having an MBA. (In the finance world) So 1,000 dollars for a CFA or 40K for an MBA...hmmm....</blockquote>


You're dead on. I have a good friend who is a big player in the institutional investment advisory world. He was never able to pass teh CFA. His wife was a wll renowned money manager for a big fund company. She also failed at least once and never passed. So if you can get your CFA you're on your way if you want a career in finance or as a fee-only advisor.
 
[quote author="No_Such_Reality" date=1228954039][quote author="Boston2theBay" date=1228953256]Thanks WINEX. I agree for today but was thinking the MS Eng may have more future value if our economy undergoes the transformation many are predicting.</blockquote>


I have the MBA/Eng/IT combo. It's good, but I think the choice really depends on what you want to do.



If you are gearing to a VP/head of Engineering role, the MBA may be better. If your heading more CTO/Architect the MS-Eng



If you haven't already done management or don't like it, skip both programs and just focus on in demand skill training.



Both IT and Engineering are becoming more and more skill centric. Good skills in OOPs technologies or ERP platforms will open 100:1 opportunities at the $100K+ range to you compared to an MBA/MS.



While the high end for the MBA/MS runs higher, it's at the expense of opportunities and longer transition periods.</blockquote>


I'm in semiconductor sales. It's very lucrative. I'm looking farther out in my career as to what it wold take to be the GM of one of our business units, or to go and be CEO of a smaller firm. I'm trying to plan for 10 years from today. To be honest a lot of modern management theory as taught at places like Stanford GSB is based on case studies of my firm, so our internal business type training is very sound. It's the technical side I want to beef up. I recall getting some advice recently at an alumni event for my engineering school from someone who is now the CEO of a publicly traded software firm. He sees his extensive engineering background as one of his strengths because it allows him to "call b.s." with more credibility than his CFO ever could, a very key trait for a CEO in high tech to have.
 
[quote author="WINEX" date=1228954533][quote author="Boston2theBay" date=1228953256]Thanks WINEX. I agree for today but was thinking the MS Eng may have more future value if our economy undergoes the transformation many are predicting.</blockquote>


Are there any skills you can gain from getting a Masters in Computer Science/Engineering that you can't gain from reading a bunch of books?</blockquote>


It's the pedigree frm the right schol that matters in my experience. Of course the competition to just pass your classes at those schools is so intense that you end up learning something along the way.
 
[quote author="Boston2theBay" date=1228971421][quote author="No_Such_Reality" date=1228954039][quote author="Boston2theBay" date=1228953256]Thanks WINEX. I agree for today but was thinking the MS Eng may have more future value if our economy undergoes the transformation many are predicting.</blockquote>


I have the MBA/Eng/IT combo. It's good, but I think the choice really depends on what you want to do.



If you are gearing to a VP/head of Engineering role, the MBA may be better. If your heading more CTO/Architect the MS-Eng



If you haven't already done management or don't like it, skip both programs and just focus on in demand skill training.



Both IT and Engineering are becoming more and more skill centric. Good skills in OOPs technologies or ERP platforms will open 100:1 opportunities at the $100K+ range to you compared to an MBA/MS.



While the high end for the MBA/MS runs higher, it's at the expense of opportunities and longer transition periods.</blockquote>


I'm in semiconductor sales. It's very lucrative. I'm looking farther out in my career as to what it wold take to be the GM of one of our business units, or to go and be CEO of a smaller firm. I'm trying to plan for 10 years from today. To be honest a lot of modern management theory as taught at places like Stanford GSB is based on case studies of my firm, so our internal business type training is very sound. It's the technical side I want to beef up. I recall getting some advice recently at an alumni event for my engineering school from someone who is now the CEO of a publicly traded software firm. He sees his extensive engineering background as one of his strengths because it allows him to "call b.s." with more credibility than his CFO ever could, a very key trait for a CEO in high tech to have.</blockquote>


That?s what I?m talking about.

Press the attack.

It?s the SC mentality

If you want to make it to the top, you need to be a corporate warrior.

Push harder, initiate the attack, crush the competition, and dictate the outcome.
 
[quote author="tenmagnet" date=1228972464][quote author="Boston2theBay" date=1228971421][quote author="No_Such_Reality" date=1228954039][quote author="Boston2theBay" date=1228953256]Thanks WINEX. I agree for today but was thinking the MS Eng may have more future value if our economy undergoes the transformation many are predicting.</blockquote>


I have the MBA/Eng/IT combo. It's good, but I think the choice really depends on what you want to do.



If you are gearing to a VP/head of Engineering role, the MBA may be better. If your heading more CTO/Architect the MS-Eng



If you haven't already done management or don't like it, skip both programs and just focus on in demand skill training.



Both IT and Engineering are becoming more and more skill centric. Good skills in OOPs technologies or ERP platforms will open 100:1 opportunities at the $100K+ range to you compared to an MBA/MS.



While the high end for the MBA/MS runs higher, it's at the expense of opportunities and longer transition periods.</blockquote>


I'm in semiconductor sales. It's very lucrative. I'm looking farther out in my career as to what it wold take to be the GM of one of our business units, or to go and be CEO of a smaller firm. I'm trying to plan for 10 years from today. To be honest a lot of modern management theory as taught at places like Stanford GSB is based on case studies of my firm, so our internal business type training is very sound. It's the technical side I want to beef up. I recall getting some advice recently at an alumni event for my engineering school from someone who is now the CEO of a publicly traded software firm. He sees his extensive engineering background as one of his strengths because it allows him to "call b.s." with more credibility than his CFO ever could, a very key trait for a CEO in high tech to have.</blockquote>


That?s what I?m talking about.

Press the attack.

It?s the SC mentality

If you want to make it to the top, you need to be a corporate warrior.

Push harder, initiate the attack, crush the competition, and dictate the outcome.</blockquote>


You've got it Ten. This is the SC mentality. The education at USC is first-rate, but its the social environment that pays the biggest dividends later in life.

Fight On!
 
[quote author="Anon." date=1228965807][quote author="IrvineCommuter" date=1228960103]I am pretty safe. . .attorneys create jobs for each other. :)</blockquote>


<a href="http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/03/news/economy/legal_industry/index.htm?postversion=2008120305">Not always.</a></blockquote>


Correction, Litigation attorneys create jobs for each other :)
 
[quote author="Boston2theBay" date=1228974095]



You've got it Ten. This is the SC mentality. The education at USC is first-rate, but its the social environment that pays the biggest dividends later in life.

Fight On!</blockquote>


I always thought the SC mentality was booze it up large and chase a lot of tail? :)
 
[quote author="WINEX" date=1228920709][quote author="Boston2theBay" date=1228914455][quote author="WINEX" date=1228884124]



What is your undergraduate degree in?</blockquote>


Computer Science</blockquote>


Just my opinion of course, but I'd recommend the MBA over another computer degree. Being able to combine a technical degree and a general degree helps separate you from the crowd. Very few people can hop between a broad view of the world and the nitty gritty details. Getting two technical degrees in the same basic subject area really doesn't demonstrate a diversity of skills.



For the record, my undergrad is in Computer Science and I have an MBA with a concentration in Finance. It's worked well for me.</blockquote>


I have toyed with the MBA idea several times, but the thought of going into debt and not having a life has stopped me thus far. However, I have been pleasantly surprised at how handy my Drama degree has been.



Edit to add: I also have a Comp Sci degree and I'm a software consultant, thus the initial surprise at how my arts skills have been useful.
 
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