How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...

[sgip]

The 1/2 point LLPA fee add for refinances is delayed until December, but that's not the start of the add on. It's for loans DELIVERED in December, which means any new loan started in October will see the price hit. Originate in October, close in November, deliver to Agency in December is on average how the manufacturing of Conforming Agency loans go.

Since we're pretty much in September now (November delivery loans) I would be surprised if every lender drops their fees by .50 now that the Agency fee was delayed a bit. Most low cost providers (Owning/LenderFi) have the thinnest of margins and a .50 cushion right now is helping, not hurting their business model. Capturing a "before/after" screen shot or an updated Loan Estimate if you are floating will help to see if the LLPA's are removed or not.

As with all LLPA's there is pain for the first 120 days when they are implemented, but pricing eventually smooths out afterwards and the .50 price hike won't really make much of a difference then as it seems to now.

My .02c

SGIP

 

[Cares]

3 of my main lenders have reversed the 0.50 agency fee this morning.

 

[oc_dreamer]

owning.com just pumped up their rates. 15yr fixed sub-$510k went from 2.125% to 2.375%.

Edit: actually they just explained to me that they are now advertising a different product. the 2.125 rate was with 1 point. 2.375 is no points.

 

[shadax]

Yes they went from No Fuss, No Muss ($6950 upfront) back to No Closing Cost. Might give it a go now.

 

[Mety]

I assume Owning, Cashcall, Lenderfi, etc. are not the servicer themselves. Will the other servicer contact you once it closes?

 

[Cares]

I assume Owning, Cashcall, Lenderfi, etc. are not the servicer themselves. Will the other servicer contact you once it closes?

I know Owning is SLS. If they are any good at customer service they would bridge the communication with you until you're up and running with the servicer but I doubt they do with their volume.

 

[aquabliss]

I thought I read owning.com changed to Mr. Cooper due to customer service issues with SLS.  Guess I?ll find out in a few weeks.

 

[John]

When I closed with Owning in July they gave payment coupons with the closing docs to make the first 3 payments directly to them.

After funding they sent a goodbye letter saying forget the payment coupons, servicing being was transferred to The Loan Store in San Francisco and payments will be made to them until the loan was sold.

About a week or two later I got a letter from The Loan Store that said they sold my loan to Freddie Mac and the new servicer was a mortgage company in Arkansas called Arvest Central Mortgage Company. Arvest gets terrible reviews but I've actually been pleased with them.

Once your loan gets sold to Fannie/Freddie it could end up anywhere. I talked to another member here who used Owning and their loan ended up with PNC Bank.

 

[qwerty]

I assume Owning, Cashcall, Lenderfi, etc. are not the servicer themselves. Will the other servicer contact you once it closes?

Once you close with owning the first document you will get is a letter stating mr cooper will be taking over your loan and that you will get a welcome letter from me cooper. I made the first payment to owning and the second is going to me cooper.

Then about three weeks before your payment is due to me cooper you will get the letter saying they are now servicing you loan and provide you the website address and your loan/account number to set up an online account.

The issue I had was that I mailed in the first payment to owning in Orange and they didn?t cash the check. I had to call them and tell them to cash it, that I didn?t want any late fees or credit report issues and They cashed it on the 14th of the month. Mr cooper did say there will not be any late fees or anything in the first 60-90 days of your loan, presumably for them to work out any potential kinks in the transition with owning.

 

[Mety]

When I closed with Owning in July they gave payment coupons with the closing docs to make the first 3 payments directly to them.

After funding they sent a goodbye letter saying forget the payment coupons, servicing being was transferred to The Loan Store in San Francisco and payments will be made to them until the loan was sold.

About a week or two later I got a letter from The Loan Store that said they sold my loan to Freddie Mac and the new servicer was a mortgage company in Arkansas called Arvest Central Mortgage Company. Arvest gets terrible reviews but I've actually been pleased with them.

Once your loan gets sold to Fannie/Freddie it could end up anywhere. I talked to another member here who used Owning and their loan ended up with PNC Bank.

That's what I was curious about. So if they keep selling your loan to others, it's better you don't set up things like the auto-monthly-pay since you might have to pay someone else next month, right? 

 

[Mety]

I assume Owning, Cashcall, Lenderfi, etc. are not the servicer themselves. Will the other servicer contact you once it closes?

Once you close with owning the first document you will get is a letter stating mr cooper will be taking over your loan and that you will get a welcome letter from me cooper. I made the first payment to owning and the second is going to me cooper.

Then about three weeks before your payment is due to me cooper you will get the letter saying they are now servicing you loan and provide you the website address and your loan/account number to set up an online account.

The issue I had was that I mailed in the first payment to owning in Orange and they didn?t cash the check. I had to call them and tell them to cash it, that I didn?t want any late fees or credit report issues and They cashed it on the 14th of the month. Mr cooper did say there will not be any late fees or anything in the first 60-90 days of your loan, presumably for them to work out any potential kinks in the transition with owning.

Was your first payment the following month after you closed the loan? I think I heard you skip the first month which gives you more benefit of refinancing. Maybe it's case by case.

 

[qwerty]

I didn?t make my July payment to my previous mortgage holder as it was part of the payoff. First payment was then to owning on 8/1.  I will include the July payment with the 9/1 payment to mr cooper.

 

[John]

When I closed with Owning in July they gave payment coupons with the closing docs to make the first 3 payments directly to them.

After funding they sent a goodbye letter saying forget the payment coupons, servicing being was transferred to The Loan Store in San Francisco and payments will be made to them until the loan was sold.

About a week or two later I got a letter from The Loan Store that said they sold my loan to Freddie Mac and the new servicer was a mortgage company in Arkansas called Arvest Central Mortgage Company. Arvest gets terrible reviews but I've actually been pleased with them.

Once your loan gets sold to Fannie/Freddie it could end up anywhere. I talked to another member here who used Owning and their loan ended up with PNC Bank.

That's what I was curious about. So if they keep selling your loan to others, it's better you don't set up things like the auto-monthly-pay since you might have to pay someone else next month, right?

Yeah, just don't be in a hurry to make that first payment. I signed docs on July 14 and my loan was funded on July 20. The due date on my first payment was Sept. 1.

The letter from The Loan Store that stated that Arvest was now servicing the loan was dated August 3rd. The letter had my new account number with Arvest so I was able to make my online account but the loan was still being transferred and their system wouldn't let me make a payment until about a week later. Even then I had plenty of time to spare before the Sept. 1 due date.

After a loan is sold/transferred I think there's a 60-day grace period after your first due date and you can't be charged any late fees.

 

[Hugo Township]

Capturing a "before/after" screen shot or an updated Loan Estimate if you are floating will help to see if the LLPA's are removed or not.

Where would you identify the LLPA on a loan estimate? I thought it wasn't transparently passed to the borrower.

 

[Cares]

Capturing a "before/after" screen shot or an updated Loan Estimate if you are floating will help to see if the LLPA's are removed or not.

Where would you identify the LLPA on a loan estimate? I thought it wasn't transparently passed to the borrower.

It wouldn't be transparent on the LE for most lenders. Unless they directly showed at 0.5% cost for "loan processing" or something. Most lenders either ate the fee or passed on the fee to borrowers in the form of a higher rate. People don't like paying cost these days.

 

[sgip]

A LE on Friday last week might show 2.625 at $7k costs. A new LE on Thursday May show 2.625 at $3,500. The general mortgage market over this time period hasn't really moved much. The $3,500 fee reduction is the LLPA going away.

My .02c

 

[Cornflakes]

Capturing a "before/after" screen shot or an updated Loan Estimate if you are floating will help to see if the LLPA's are removed or not.

Where would you identify the LLPA on a loan estimate? I thought it wasn't transparently passed to the borrower.

It wouldn't be transparent on the LE for most lenders. Unless they directly showed at 0.5% cost for "loan processing" or something. Most lenders either ate the fee or passed on the fee to borrowers in the form of a higher rate. People don't like paying cost these days.

Why is there such an opaqueness on rates? If most lenders ultimately sell the loan to Freddie/Fannie, why is there no "published lowest rate" for a given borrower profile and lenders can tack on their razor thin or high markup for providing certain level of experience?

 

[Cares]

Capturing a "before/after" screen shot or an updated Loan Estimate if you are floating will help to see if the LLPA's are removed or not.

Where would you identify the LLPA on a loan estimate? I thought it wasn't transparently passed to the borrower.

It wouldn't be transparent on the LE for most lenders. Unless they directly showed at 0.5% cost for "loan processing" or something. Most lenders either ate the fee or passed on the fee to borrowers in the form of a higher rate. People don't like paying cost these days.

Why is there such an opaqueness on rates? If most lenders ultimately sell the loan to Freddie/Fannie, why is there no "published lowest rate" for a given borrower profile and lenders can tack on their razor thin or high markup for providing certain level of experience?

Would you ask Walmart or Target what their profit margin is on their products? Or another example let's say prescription drugs.

 

[sgip]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but could you please post a screen shot of your 2019 W-2 (unredacted)? No? We'd like to know what you earn and how you earn it.

I'm sure the answer is "How about No? Does No work for you"?

There are trade secrets at hand. Not every loan is sold to Agency. Some are pooled into securities for insurance companies as an example. These loans are structured and priced as Agency loans, but they are purchased, held for a time, and then in some cases split up and re-sold. It's possible to sell a loan as "Agency" quality paper to credit unions, even Banks. Lenders sources of funds isn't always based on an Agency sale. There are hedge funds making "Agency" quality loans.

The term "Conforming" is a better way to look at this. "Conforming loans" conform to Agency guidelines, making them a reasonably easy to trade security. That's the end product, not really much having to do with the manufacturing of the loan.

The LLPA data is easy to Google and get. When a client asks "Why isn't Owning or anyone else giving me the low 2.x rate they advertise for my Triplex rental property cash out refinance??" I steer the customer to the Agency LLPA matrix so they can see all of the Add On's making a 2.x rate more like a 3.75 rate.

My .02c

 

[Cornflakes]

Capturing a "before/after" screen shot or an updated Loan Estimate if you are floating will help to see if the LLPA's are removed or not.

Where would you identify the LLPA on a loan estimate? I thought it wasn't transparently passed to the borrower.

It wouldn't be transparent on the LE for most lenders. Unless they directly showed at 0.5% cost for "loan processing" or something. Most lenders either ate the fee or passed on the fee to borrowers in the form of a higher rate. People don't like paying cost these days.

Why is there such an opaqueness on rates? If most lenders ultimately sell the loan to Freddie/Fannie, why is there no "published lowest rate" for a given borrower profile and lenders can tack on their razor thin or high markup for providing certain level of experience?

Would you ask Walmart or Target what their profit margin is on their products? Or another example let's say prescription drugs.

I was going to post exact analogy.

Walmart is considered lowest price for most items. A 50 inch tv you buy at walmart costs x dollars. That's your benchmark. Now you can go buy the same tv from Best buy, Amazon, or your neighborhood boutique shop based on the level of service you prefer.

Buyer and the product are the same, only variable is level of service. Be transparent and charge whatever profit margin the market will bear.