How far will a name take you?

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Laing_Lies_IHB

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<p>Hi!</p>

<p>I hope everyone is having a great new years so far. And, happy early Easter to all. I apologize for not posting recently but work and personal life needed attention. </p>

<p>Anyway, there are no doubt many intelligent professionals posting on this site ... so I thought I'd ask for your input ...my sister is deciding on which University to enroll in this Fall. She plans on pursuing a Postgraduate course of study after her Bachelors. With that in mind, what are your feelings in regards to public schools versus private schools? Ivys? For example, Stanford vs. UCLA - is the Stanford name worth the extra $ ??? Are more doors really opened ??? Would the name make it easier to get into a better Postgraduate program ???</p>

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My choice came down to USC vs Cal, I wanted to be a CPA and USC had an accounting program ranked in the top five in the country (still does), while Cal did not have an accounting program, however, the Haas School of business is very highly regarded, Cal not having an accounting program made it easy for me to pick SC. However, if both had an accounting program, I would have still gone with SC since i was going to live in the LA area after I graduated and I knew SC's extensive alumni network was going to come in handy in getting my career started. After graduating, I ended up at a Big 4 cpa firm (big 5 at the time before AA went down). The person who was most responsible for me ending up there was an SC grad.





For me a big part of the decision process would be what region of the country i would be working in and pick a school in that region that was highly regarded. Obviously certain schools are known across the county such as the Ivys and stanford, cal, ucla. Again, if she is planning to stay in the southern california area once she actually is done with school, SC would be a no brainer for me due to large alumni network. It seems to me that the SC alumni network is much more supportive of each other than the UCLA alumni network, they dont seem to have as strong a connection with each other as SC alumni do. This is just my opinion and dont have any stats to support it, just what i have seen in the business world.





I think more doors are opened for alumni of private universities than public school alumni, probably because private school alumni tend to think they are part of an "elite" group compared to their public school counter parts and support each other more in their professional careers - again just my opinion. When I hire folks and i have two candidates that are similar and one SC, i go with the SC person. For accounting positions, I have a very hard time considering people outside of USC/UCLA grads, in my experience, candidates/employees outside of those two schools are weaker overall as a group, with that said, there have been some very talented folks that i have worked with that were not USC/UCLA, overall as a group though, not as talented.





FIGHT ON!





SC 64, Kansas State 60
 
IMHO, I would suggest her going to a lower-level Ivy like Brown or Dartmouth. Speaking with some of my friends who went there, grade inflation is rampant there as the students feel more entitled and the teachers accommodate. At the UC's, it seems to me more about people proving that their stellar performance in HS was not a fluke, trying to bust that curve. When I went to the local UC many years ago, the lower level classes tried to get a distribution of C+ to B-. Also there is no longer any affirmative action, giving greater emphasis on sheer academics and SAT scores which would make the student population more homogenous and hence more competitive. This is in the context of her trying to get the best grades possible so that she can have the most options for post-graduate work. I'm sure she'll get a great education at any Ivy League and most UC's, BUT she may get better grades at the Ivys. I don't know if Stanford has significant grade inflation or not...if they do then that would be a great choice for her.
 
Congrats on your sister getting into Stanford and UCLA undergrad. My younger sister was in a similar situation 6 years ago - deciding between Stanford and UCSD. She got into the other UCs and some other private schools, but she wanted to do BioEngineering so it was down to Stanford's name or UCSD's Bio Research reputation.



I'm not sure if Stanford recently cracked down on grade inflation, but when I was in college 8 years ago, most Stanford classes curved around a A-/B+. Pretty cushy situation if you can get it. This is a big plus if your sis is considering graduate school. Grad schools are aware of Stanford's (and Harvard's) grade inflation, but when it comes down to it, they are probably going to take the 3.7 GPA at face value come admissions decision time because of the prestige associated with Stanford's name. One of my friends "struggled" with her Stanford undergrad classes. She is currently finishing up her PhD at an Ivy.



Anyway, back to my sister's decision. Long story short, her then beau was going to UCSD and she placed a higher priority on the Bio Engineering program (Stanford does not have a specific program per se) so she chose UCSD. She had to work her butt off at UCSD to get good grades (lower than the median GPA at Stanford) and found that UCSD's BioEng reputation opened no doors up. Specifically regarding Bio E, you need a PhD from UCSD to have that "ooh" factor. She's currently at an Ivy BioEng graduate program. I asked her, if she were to do it all over again, would she still choose UCSD over Stanford? The answer was no. Like TRock's reply, if anything else, Stanford undergrad definitely opens doors because it allows you to graduate with a higher inflated GPA. Tack on the Stanford mystique and voila, the answer is pretty evident.



I actually told my sister to go to Stanford, but well, she had other ideas at the time. Choose the path of least resistance toward a good grad school (your parents will be paying dearly for it, unless your sis has significant scholarships). There's no guarantee your sis will survive the hordes of competitive kids and the B-/C+ curve at a public school like UCLA.
 
What is her area of interest thus far? If she knows she wants to study, for example, marine biology, then I would suggest a school with a rock star marine biologist. Of course, then she would need to take classes and maybe an independent study with said professor to get a recommendation for grad school. A recommendation from someone outstanding in the field she intends to pursue really helps a lot.
 
<p>Here is my <unbiased> opinion coming from a Stanford Grad...</p>

<p>You'll work much harder at a top UC like Cal or UCLA that's for sure...however, in school and in life, it's not always how hard you work but how smartly you're working.</p>

<p>Not sure if it means anything, but when you go to Stanford (for better or worse), you don't have to remind people that you're "just as good" as someone who went to Stanford or Harvard the way some of my friends who worked really hard and did very well at the UCs. They went on to have good careers, so no biggie either way on where they went.</p>

<p>But I will tell you that going to Stanford definitely opened up more doors than otherwise. My first real job after college I was hired by a Stanford grad, and going to Stanford and living in Southern Cal you get to make fun of USC folks whenever our football team clashes and Stanford actually wins.</p>

<p>In summary, going to an elite private school you'll be able to work as hard or as easy as you want for good results...going to a top public school, you'll just be working hard to distinguish yourself from everyone else. If you're into character building and hard knocks, then go for the public school (it's cheaper to boot), but if you want to make good lifelong friends and have a strong alumni network (as qwerty mention) go for the elite private school.</p>

<p>My 2 cents.</p>
 
I went to Stanford and chose it over Cal. I received a full ride at CAL and received 75% financial aid at Stanford due to financial hardship so the decision was easy for me. However, if my children had the same option as your sister, I would pay the $$ and send them to a top school.



Simple answer - if money isn't a huge concern, go with Stanford. It really does open many more doors for you. One, everyone knows it's very competitive, so if you attended a Harvard or Stanford, you were most likely top of your class and highly motivated. Your resume stands out among the sea of UC and state graduates. Two, many of your friends will be very successful. We all know that networking is very important.



One thing about grade inflation - It always peeves me when I hear about grade inflation. If 90% of the people at a school were valedictorians or straight A students, don't you think it makes sense that the average GPA will be much higher than a state school? Think about the smartest kids in your high school - throw all of them into one class. Do you think anyone would get a B- or C? Almost everyone I met was incredibly smart.



Another example of how more doors are open at Stanford - All the top investment banks and consulting firms recruit at Stanford. Not all recruit at the UCs. And even if they do, it is much tougher to get an interview.



Most of my friends are very successful. 75% of them are Bankers, lawyers, doctors and all had no problems getting into great grad programs. However, I think most of friends would have succeeded wherever they went. I know plenty of people who went to UCs, worked their tails off and are just as successful. So in the end, top schools are just another filtering program for future employers and grad programs.



Just like the debate about home prices and what it is worth to people, there is no clear answer to your question. I think it's worth it, but many don't. No one is wrong.
 
<p>If your parents happen to make less than $100K, tuition at Stanford is now <a href="http://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/show_story.php?id=7210">free</a>.</p>
 
<p class="MsoNormal">I had a great time and an amazing experience attending USC. </p>

<p class="MsoNormal">Although, I can’t seem to recall have learned anything useful in my classes there.</p>

<p class="MsoNormal">Outside of the classroom was where my education really skyrocketed.</p>

<p class="MsoNormal">I learned some absolutely crucial concepts that were never taught in a classroom at SC, which to this day have paid dividends helping me excel in life. </p>

At SC, I learned the importance of getting status, making money, pulling girls, and constantly striving to impress my friends. These are the qualities I was told would make you successful in life. Yeah, the alumni network, school’s reputation/football team/Greek system are important factors to consder as well.
 
If this person is going straight to grad school(i.e. no concern about the best high paying job after undergrad) then focus on going to a school where there is less competition OR grade inflation is ramapant. You are correct about the Ivies and Stanford; they are HELL to get into, but once in tough to get lower than a 3.0. Another option is what one of my siblings did, transferring from UCLA to a midwestern state school with much less competition (i.e. negligible Asian enrollment) where it was easy to pull a 3.8.



For this reason avoid USC or UCLA/Cal. All three are brutal on grading, especially Cal. Grades and test scores are the key to getting into a good grad school. USC is a MUCH different school today than even 10 years ago. It also has far superior facilities (like plush 24 hr libraries and student lounges/computer labs) to any UC. I'm an alumni so I may be a little biased, but my choice to go to USC for engineering gave me the intellectual tools and social intelligence I neded to succeed in a large corporate high tech company. My grades however would have made it difficult to get into a top flight grad school immediately after. I indulged way too much in the finer things USC has to offer to pull top grades in Engineering. But unlike tenmagnet I learned a lot in the classroom as well as out of it.
 
<p>Ivy league schools do open up more opportunites. Still if you want to continue you will still have to get top grades. I will say after attending more than one grad school, the IVY schools do tend to inflate the grades. As a grad student there I was encouraged to set the average from 70ish to something like 87ish.... I didn't agree and strenously defended my position... But alas i did what I was told and moved on.... Are the students any smarter? Some are VERY smart, the most though, are rich spoiled kids.... The smart guys are VERY apparent though and are awsome to work with.</p>

<p>Good luck in the decision.</p>

<p>-bix</p>
 
<em>One thing about grade inflation - It always peeves me when I hear about grade inflation. If 90% of the people at a school were valedictorians or straight A students, don't you think it makes sense that the average GPA will be much higher than a state school?





</em>It makes sense only if most Stanford classes grade on an absolute scale. If this was Stanford's standard grading policy most of the math/science/engineering majors would fail out =). Realistic grading curves that center around B-/C+ don't allow for 90% of students in one class to attain A grades. Stanford (like Harvard) used to curve most of their classes to a A-/B+ - hence <a href="http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2002/5/31/stanfordReviewsGradingAfterHarvardsOverhaul">90% of graduates at Harvard graduating with some form of honors in 2002</a>. Stanford also used to give out 4.3s for A+. I'm not sure how Stanford's grading policy stands now, but I seriously doubt it has changed much.





Not all elite private colleges have this GPA coddling. I'm pretty sure most of the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swarthmore_College">Swarthmore</a> students were at the top of their high school classes, but they used face a B-/C+ curve (though now it's probably more like a B+/B).





I thought the OP was talking about a choice between elite private colleges vs the UCs. I don't know why all these Trojans are coming out of the woodwork to tout SC. I keed I keed.
 
<p>WOW ... thanks for the advice everyone! I just was informed of the choices yesterday, so a lot of important points that you guys brought up hadn't even crossed my mind ... thank you, again!</p>

<p>For now, she wants to go to medical school and become a Pediatrician. </p>

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Far more important than the school is her drive to succeed. Either of those would be fine and one would be a lot cheaper. I'd go with the public university. The mere fact that you have to ask the question shows that most aren't really cognizant of a material difference between the education you'd get at UCLA and Stanford. Now if she's going to graduate school to be a lawyer or doctor, then it's a lot more important since they're prestige obsessed professions. Undergrad, most people don't care as much.
 
<p>Knowing she wants to go to med school, I'd pick Ucla for financial reasons, in addition to the superb life sciences program they have (including research).</p>

<p>med school afterwards is highly dependent on mcat and interviews at the schools. my cousin is finishing fellowship at ucla after going to wayne state med school in michigan. he went to michigan for undergrad. jobs have lined up for him based on his fellowship/residency, rather than the med school he went to.</p>
 
<p>My daughter went to major in architecture at the U of Florida at Gainesville. After a year off, she got her master's at MIT. At 23, she was the youngest student in her class. For about 6 weeks she was intimidated, because everyone was from Ivies, or the overseas equivalent thereof. But then, she asked herself, what do these people know that I don't? The answer was NOTHING. And she didn't have any undergrad student loans because she got money from the state, from us, and from money we made here put aside from working summers as a teenager.</p>

<p>Your sister is majoring in something that is going to make her money. I would NEVER have a kid go to an Ivy and pull out huge loans and major in something like history or English where you can't get a job to pay those loans back. If one is on a full scholarship, that is different;. (I have nothing against those majors, but I do have something against not being able to pay back debts.)</p>
 
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