How Do Neighborhoods Go Bad?

What about Asian neighborhoods. Asians bought in many lower priced neighborhoods and home prices increased most of the time. If you can stand what they do to their homes then it is nice to have them as neighbors because they tend to drive comp up. Rowland Heights, Diamond Bar and Chino are just some examples.
 
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1220919094][quote author="PadreBrian" date=1219109898]In this generation, it's not race that makes people move, it's crime and neighborhood deterioration.



That's one great thing about HOA's. Irvine will never have a slum due to the fact there will always be a group of old bittys keeping things in order.</blockquote>
Not every neighborhood in Irvine has an HOA. There are some places that could qualify as "slummy" when compared to perceived hauty Irvine standards.</blockquote>


Saw two Irvine policemen following an exotic looking car once, just shadowing the owner's movements as he went from store to store at a less upscale Irvine mall.

What gangsta would want to live in Irvine with police like that?
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1221185373]What about Asian neighborhoods. Asians bought in many lower priced neighborhoods and home prices increased most of the time. If you can stand what they do to their homes then it is nice to have them as neighbors because they tend to drive comp up. Rowland Heights, Diamond Bar and Chino are just some examples.</blockquote>


Yes, Asians do raise RE values of blighted neighborhoods. I grew up in the ghetto in 1970s downtown LA, near Westmoreland and Olympic in a tenement called the "Menlo Zoo" (several neighbors mugged/attacked in basement laundry room). Koreans started moving to that neighborhood in the 1980s and today it is a fairly decent Korean neighborhood.

As late as the late 1980s, there was a significant black population in Rowland Heights, concentrated mainly around Batson and Colima. There were also many blacks in Chino and I believe Snoop Dog once coached football in Rowland Heights and he still lives in Diamond Bar. Rowland Heights was then considered a low class neighborhood that was too close to the 60 freeway, the white people at that time lived in Hacienda Heights (note that today, there are few whites left in HH). The entire black population of RH has completely vanished and RH today is nearly 100% Asian and property values today in RH have risen to be as high or higher than neighboring Hacienda Heights. Frankly, I can understand why the blacks and whites left Rowland Heights; despite higher RE values, all the signs are in Asian gibberish and nobody knows how to drive.
 
[quote author="High Gravity" date=1223601824].... all the signs are in Asian gibberish and nobody knows how to drive.</blockquote>
[PC Shield ON]

Maybe the driving would be better if the road signs were in Asian gibberish too?



I find it interesting that Asians would bring home values up.



In Irvine... I've heard people say there are too many Asians... and this is coming from Asians (hypocrisy who?)!
 
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1223602519][quote author="High Gravity" date=1223601824].... all the signs are in Asian gibberish and nobody knows how to drive.</blockquote>
[PC Shield ON]

Maybe the driving would be better if the road signs were in Asian gibberish too?



I find it interesting that Asians would bring home values up.



In Irvine... I've heard people say there are too many Asians... and this is coming from Asians (hypocrisy who?)!</blockquote>


"Too many Asians" is a cultural complaint, not an economic one. Whites who fled yellowing neighborhoods were more than happy to sell their homes at inflated prices to Asians and then move to Salt Lake City.
 
[quote author="Astute Observer" date=1223611733]Asian is a very board category, and even among the same nationality (can be an issue by itself between Chinese and Taiwanese), there are some we-and-them mentality, so there is no hypocrisy when one asian complaint about "other" asians.</blockquote>


Asian homes by region:

Japanese - Clean, tidy, quality furniture, and artwork.

Korean - Clean, tidy, strange artwork, religious objects, huge kim chi fermenter in garage.

Chinese (Mainland) - Disorganized, pile of shoes on all porches, two sets of bunk beds in each bedroom, mold growing in shower.

Chinese (Taiwan) - Tidy, faux Louis XVIII furniture, samurai sword set on mantle, pile of shoes on all porches, mold growing in shower.

Vietnamese - Outrageous drapery, oversized furniture, nuc mam aroma.
 
[quote author="High Gravity" date=1223613577]Asian homes by region:

Japanese - Clean, tidy, quality furniture, and artwork.

Korean - Clean, tidy, strange artwork, religious objects, huge kim chi fermenter in garage.

Chinese (Mainland) - Disorganized, pile of shoes on all porches, two sets of bunk beds in each bedroom, mold growing in shower.

Chinese (Taiwan) - Tidy, faux Louis XVIII furniture, samurai sword set on mantle, pile of shoes on all porches, mold growing in shower.

Vietnamese - Outrageous drapery, oversized furniture, nuc mam aroma.</blockquote>
Mold only grows in Chinese showers? I thought shower mold has no racial boundaries.
 
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1223621847][quote author="High Gravity" date=1223613577]Asian homes by region:

Japanese - Clean, tidy, quality furniture, and artwork.

Korean - Clean, tidy, strange artwork, religious objects, huge kim chi fermenter in garage.

Chinese (Mainland) - Disorganized, pile of shoes on all porches, two sets of bunk beds in each bedroom, mold growing in shower.

Chinese (Taiwan) - Tidy, faux Louis XVIII furniture, samurai sword set on mantle, pile of shoes on all porches, mold growing in shower.

Vietnamese - Outrageous drapery, oversized furniture, nuc mam aroma.</blockquote>
Mold only grows in Chinese showers? I thought shower mold has no racial boundaries.</blockquote>
Chinese believe it is unhealthy to have cold air movement while bathing so they do not open windows or turn on exhaust fans while showering.
 
[quote author="High Gravity" date=1223601824][quote author="bkshopr" date=1221185373]What about Asian neighborhoods. Asians bought in many lower priced neighborhoods and home prices increased most of the time. If you can stand what they do to their homes then it is nice to have them as neighbors because they tend to drive comp up. Rowland Heights, Diamond Bar and Chino are just some examples.</blockquote>


Yes, Asians do raise RE values of blighted neighborhoods. I grew up in the ghetto in 1970s downtown LA, near Westmoreland and Olympic in a tenement called the "Menlo Zoo" (several neighbors mugged/attacked in basement laundry room). Koreans started moving to that neighborhood in the 1980s and today it is a fairly decent Korean neighborhood.

As late as the late 1980s, there was a significant black population in Rowland Heights, concentrated mainly around Batson and Colima. There were also many blacks in Chino and I believe Snoop Dog once coached football in Rowland Heights and he still lives in Diamond Bar. Rowland Heights was then considered a low class neighborhood that was too close to the 60 freeway, the white people at that time lived in Hacienda Heights (note that today, there are few whites left in HH). The entire black population of RH has completely vanished and RH today is nearly 100% Asian and property values today in RH have risen to be as high or higher than neighboring Hacienda Heights. Frankly, I can understand why the blacks and whites left Rowland Heights; despite higher RE values, all the signs are in Asian gibberish and nobody knows how to drive.</blockquote>


I know that area well by Virgil Jr. High. Kenmore and Beverly was invaded by Salvadorians. LACC frequently called Vermont University was the ideal ESL learning center.



Echo Park was the ghetto of the 70's is now one of the top ten desirable places to live. It was on the CBS 11pm news last night.
 
[quote author="High Gravity" date=1223613577]Asian homes by region:

Japanese - Clean, tidy, quality furniture, and artwork.

Korean - Clean, tidy, strange artwork, religious objects, huge kim chi fermenter in garage.

Chinese (Mainland) - Disorganized, pile of shoes on all porches, two sets of bunk beds in each bedroom, mold growing in shower.

Chinese (Taiwan) - Tidy, faux Louis XVIII furniture, samurai sword set on mantle, pile of shoes on all porches, mold growing in shower.

Vietnamese - Outrageous drapery, oversized furniture, nuc mam aroma.</blockquote>


What about the rest of Asia? -- Sri Lanka, Qatar, Russia, Lebanon, Kazakhstan, India, Thailand, Indonesia, Armenia, Afghanistan, Bhutan, Iraq, Israel, etc.
 
Usually there aren't enough immigrants from those countries in the neighborhood to count, with exception to Indians in few areas.



Japanese households tend to be either very clean or very untidy, with few exceptions in-between. I've been to Japanese homes where you had to use different set of slippers for the restroom, and the living room area was arranged in a beautiful minimalist style. And then there's the... other Japanese homes I've been to with crap piled everywhere and cat litter on the carpet.



Many older generation Taiwanese dislike throwing things away, so their homes are filled with all kinds of stuff. Except for the Japanese-educated Taiwanese elite and the wealthy/connected mainlanders that retreated with the KMT, the rest (Taiwanese, Hakka, Mainlander) were all piss poor. When my mother was growing up in a family with 5 daughters and 2 sons, her birthday cake was a boiled egg. Every time I fly back to Taipei I have to clean out the patio at my grandmother's house, she'd save newspapers, cardboard boxes, etc. and pile them into a giant fire hazard.



Older generation Asians prefer hardwood or tiled floors over carpet. Carpet is seen as "dirty", and if you consider all the dog poop and crap outside, it's just disgusting to think people wear their outdoor shoes and walk over the living room & bedroom carpet floors. I've seen people walk over dried dog poop on the lawn and walk straight into the house. When questioned about their sanitation practices, they say it's fine and you just vacuum later. Um...



In Singapore, they still have guys going door to door to collect old newspapers and scrap metal, exchanging them for petty cash. Think of it as a door to door recycling service. If you wear good shoes, you're advised to bring them indoor and put it on the side, because some of these recycle guys would take shoes left outside the door and not say anything. ;p
 
[quote author="momopi" date=1224806834] the rest (Taiwanese, Hakka, Mainlander) were all piss poor. </blockquote>


Taiwanese bathrooms are horrifying. To enter, you must wear rubber flip flops placed at the enterance because the bathroom floor is usually wet. The entire bathroom is tiled with the main drain in the middle of the floor rather than in the tub. Shower curtains or enclosures do not exist in Taiwan. A shower means getting the entire room wet: floor, walls, cabinets, sink, toilet seat, everything. Also, Taiwanese do not flush toilet paper, used TP is deposited in a malodorous container in open view next to the toilet. I have seen actual mushrooms growing out of the grout in Taiwanese hotel bathrooms.
 
[quote author="High Gravity" date=1224808397][quote author="momopi" date=1224806834] the rest (Taiwanese, Hakka, Mainlander) were all piss poor. </blockquote>


Taiwanese bathrooms are horrifying. To enter, you must wear rubber flip flops placed at the enterance because the bathroom floor is usually wet. The entire bathroom is tiled with the main drain in the middle of the floor rather than in the tub. Shower curtains or enclosures do not exist in Taiwan. A shower means getting the entire room wet: floor, walls, cabinets, sink, toilet seat, everything. Also, Taiwanese do not flush toilet paper, used TP is deposited in a malodorous container in open view next to the toilet. I have seen actual mushrooms growing out of the grout in Taiwanese hotel bathrooms.</blockquote>


http://www.reuters.com/article/lifestyleMolt/idUSTP4086620080708



Flush so we don't blush, Taiwan city says

Mon Jul 7, 2008 11:59pm EDT



TAIPEI (Reuters) - A city in south Taiwan began training potty users this week to <strong>flush toilet paper</strong> instead of throwing it in the trash, to reduce 340 tonnes of stinky waste generated daily, local media and officials said on Tuesday.



"An old habit is to throw toilet paper in the trash can beside the toilet, which causes a major stink that's bad for public sanitation," city Environmental Protection Bureau Director Chang Hwang-jen told Reuters.



"Japanese and Western visitors who come to Taiwan find this Taiwan toilet habit to be quite poor," she added.



Taiwan's plumbing can now handle toilet paper without clogging the pipes, a break from the past, the city of Tainan told its 764,000 citizens at a news conference on Monday.



Leaders in other Taiwan cities haven't gotten off the pot on the issue, Chang said.



Toilet sitters in Taiwan and China customarily target trash bins instead of the porcelain because of pipe backup worries. Clogged pipes in Tainan are caused by the flushing of other objects, such as toothbrushes, Chang said.



Sticking non-recyclable toilet paper in the trash also costs the city NT$4,600 ($151) per tonne, or NT$600 million per year, to treat, local media said.



======= vs. =======



http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2008/07/10/2003416999



EPA flushes Tainan?s loo paper disposal campaign

U-BEND U-TURN: An official said only 18 percent of the nation?s toilets feed into sewage treatment systems; for the rest the paper would flow into rivers and waterways



STAFF WRITER, WITH CNA

Thursday, Jul 10, 2008, Page 2



The Environmental Protection Administration urged the public yesterday <strong>not to flush toilet paper</strong>.



Wang Yue-bin (???), a section chief with the Water Quality Protection division, made the remarks in response to a campaign launched by the Tainan City Government earlier this week encouraging the public to flush toilet paper as a way to cut disposal costs.



The city?s Environmental Protection Bureau held a press conference on Monday to unveil the results of a study showing that the nation uses 340 tonnes of toilet paper each day.



As used toilet paper cannot be recycled, it must be disposed of through treatment that costs about NT$4,600 per tonne. This costs the nation about NT$600 million (US$20 million) per year, the bureau said.



In response, Wang said that although toilet paper does dissolve in water and that flushing it could cut the nation?s treatment costs, there were negative aspects that outweighed this argument.



Much of the public does not know which toilet papers can be flushed and which papers are too thick and could cause clogging, he said.



In addition, only about 18 percent of toilets feed into sewage treatment systems. If toilet paper is flushed down the other 82 percent of toilets, it flows directly into rivers and other waterways and increases pollution, he said.



Many proponents of flushing toilet paper cite Japan as an example of the benefits of disposing of the paper in this way, he said. The problem is that toilet paper in Japan is made of recycled paper, whereas in Taiwan toilet paper has longer fibers that do not dissolve as quickly, he said.



Japanese toilet paper is also much thinner, while in Taiwan thin toilet paper is considered to be poor quality and doesn?t sell very well, Wang said.



Chou Chun-ti (???), chairwoman of the Conservation Mothers Foundation, echoed Wang?s statement, saying that most of the nation?s toilets and plumbing were not up to par, making them easily clogged.



Chou said she was not against promoting the concept of flushing toilet paper, but that it should only be done in areas where toilets are connected to sewage treatment centers to avoid increasing water pollution.
 
[quote author="Failedagent" date=1218163985]Sorry this question is kind of vague, but how do neighborhoods become slums? I saw on the History Channel that in the 1890's Harlem was the high class neighborhood of New York with the largest mansions. There was a time when Compton was a nice place, and get this, when I was in elementary school my relatives chided me for living in "shanty shack town" NEWPORT BEACH. They were from a repsectable neighborhood in SANTA ANA. I am not making this up.



So how does it happen that the good places can become the not so good places? Is it easy to forcast where it will happen?What can urban planning do to prevent it?</blockquote>


I predict Irvine would be next.
 
[quote author="High Gravity" date=1224808397][quote author="momopi" date=1224806834] the rest (Taiwanese, Hakka, Mainlander) were all piss poor. </blockquote>


Taiwanese bathrooms are horrifying. To enter, you must wear rubber flip flops placed at the enterance because the bathroom floor is usually wet. The entire bathroom is tiled with the main drain in the middle of the floor rather than in the tub. Shower curtains or enclosures do not exist in Taiwan. A shower means getting the entire room wet: floor, walls, cabinets, sink, toilet seat, everything. Also, Taiwanese do not flush toilet paper, used TP is deposited in a malodorous container in open view next to the toilet. I have seen actual mushrooms growing out of the grout in Taiwanese hotel bathrooms.</blockquote>


On side note, some Asian restrooms, such as those in Malaysia, have a spray water hose near the toilet, kind of like bidet sprays. Muslims have pretty elaborate toilet etiquette, plus they have to wash themselves with running water 5 times/day. Non-Muslims living in those countries adopt some of the habits and wash their rear after using the toilet. Needless to say, there has to be a drain on the floor.



Other Asians like the idea of washing themselves very throughly down there, so you have products like the "Lotus Smart Toilet Seat":

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJy3d6A_qcU&feature=related">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJy3d6A_qcU&feature=related</a>



<img src="http://www.redferret.net/Images/enematoilet_small.jpg" alt="" />
 
[quote author="momopi" date=1224892084][quote author="High Gravity" date=1224808397][quote author="momopi" date=1224806834] the rest (Taiwanese, Hakka, Mainlander) were all piss poor. </blockquote>


Taiwanese bathrooms are horrifying. To enter, you must wear rubber flip flops placed at the enterance because the bathroom floor is usually wet. The entire bathroom is tiled with the main drain in the middle of the floor rather than in the tub. Shower curtains or enclosures do not exist in Taiwan. A shower means getting the entire room wet: floor, walls, cabinets, sink, toilet seat, everything. Also, Taiwanese do not flush toilet paper, used TP is deposited in a malodorous container in open view next to the toilet. I have seen actual mushrooms growing out of the grout in Taiwanese hotel bathrooms.</blockquote>


http://www.reuters.com/article/lifestyleMolt/idUSTP4086620080708



Flush so we don't blush, Taiwan city says

Mon Jul 7, 2008 11:59pm EDT



TAIPEI (Reuters) - A city in south Taiwan began training potty users this week to <strong>flush toilet paper</strong> instead of throwing it in the trash, to reduce 340 tonnes of stinky waste generated daily, local media and officials said on Tuesday.



"An old habit is to throw toilet paper in the trash can beside the toilet, which causes a major stink that's bad for public sanitation," city Environmental Protection Bureau Director Chang Hwang-jen told Reuters.



"Japanese and Western visitors who come to Taiwan find this Taiwan toilet habit to be quite poor," she added.



Taiwan's plumbing can now handle toilet paper without clogging the pipes, a break from the past, the city of Tainan told its 764,000 citizens at a news conference on Monday.



Leaders in other Taiwan cities haven't gotten off the pot on the issue, Chang said.



Toilet sitters in Taiwan and China customarily target trash bins instead of the porcelain because of pipe backup worries. Clogged pipes in Tainan are caused by the flushing of other objects, such as toothbrushes, Chang said.



Sticking non-recyclable toilet paper in the trash also costs the city NT$4,600 ($151) per tonne, or NT$600 million per year, to treat, local media said.



======= vs. =======



http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2008/07/10/2003416999



EPA flushes Tainan?s loo paper disposal campaign

U-BEND U-TURN: An official said only 18 percent of the nation?s toilets feed into sewage treatment systems; for the rest the paper would flow into rivers and waterways



STAFF WRITER, WITH CNA

Thursday, Jul 10, 2008, Page 2



The Environmental Protection Administration urged the public yesterday <strong>not to flush toilet paper</strong>.



Wang Yue-bin (???), a section chief with the Water Quality Protection division, made the remarks in response to a campaign launched by the Tainan City Government earlier this week encouraging the public to flush toilet paper as a way to cut disposal costs.



The city?s Environmental Protection Bureau held a press conference on Monday to unveil the results of a study showing that the nation uses 340 tonnes of toilet paper each day.



As used toilet paper cannot be recycled, it must be disposed of through treatment that costs about NT$4,600 per tonne. This costs the nation about NT$600 million (US$20 million) per year, the bureau said.



In response, Wang said that although toilet paper does dissolve in water and that flushing it could cut the nation?s treatment costs, there were negative aspects that outweighed this argument.



Much of the public does not know which toilet papers can be flushed and which papers are too thick and could cause clogging, he said.



In addition, only about 18 percent of toilets feed into sewage treatment systems. If toilet paper is flushed down the other 82 percent of toilets, it flows directly into rivers and other waterways and increases pollution, he said.



Many proponents of flushing toilet paper cite Japan as an example of the benefits of disposing of the paper in this way, he said. The problem is that toilet paper in Japan is made of recycled paper, whereas in Taiwan toilet paper has longer fibers that do not dissolve as quickly, he said.



Japanese toilet paper is also much thinner, while in Taiwan thin toilet paper is considered to be poor quality and doesn?t sell very well, Wang said.



Chou Chun-ti (???), chairwoman of the Conservation Mothers Foundation, echoed Wang?s statement, saying that most of the nation?s toilets and plumbing were not up to par, making them easily clogged.



Chou said she was not against promoting the concept of flushing toilet paper, but that it should only be done in areas where toilets are connected to sewage treatment centers to avoid increasing water pollution.</blockquote>


After reading this, I don't find the humour in this blog at all

<a href="http://gblahg.blogspot.com/2006/08/toilet-is-so-clean-you-can-eat-off-it.html">http://gblahg.blogspot.com/2006/08/toilet-is-so-clean-you-can-eat-off-it.html</a>
 
Very simple. When the whole neighborhood has nothing but renters. More often than not Renters do not care about the property as much as if the homeowner lived there. I have a lot of friends who have rentals and the horror stories of the renters trashing the homes and not paying their rent just does not quit. The hassle is not worth it if you ask me.
 
[quote author="OCCOBRA" date=1224995790]Very simple. When the whole neighborhood has nothing but renters. More often than not Renters do not care about the property as much as if the homeowner lived there. I have a lot of friends who have rentals and the horror stories of the renters trashing the homes and not paying their rent just does not quit. The hassle is not worth it if you ask me.</blockquote>


Sound like where I live, there are a lot of renters. Oops! it's Irvine. My bad.
 
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