Heads up OC, the No on Prop 8 protests are coming to you

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Trooper_IHB

Trooper_IHB

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Today and this week. These protests are getting added faster than I can keep up with them and have now started to begin nationwide.



Anyone see me on CNN last night?





<a href="http://queersunited.blogspot.com/2008/11/listing-of-prop-8-protests-and-rallies.html">List of protests</a>



You can expect traffic delays at Culver and Alton all day today and into the night tonight...fyi.
 
No, I didn't interview with them but I am in footage. My Department has pulled me out of patrol and back into my former Gay and Lesbian Liaison Officer position, in order to help keep the peace. So far, so good !



The problem we are having is the Socialist/Anarchist groups that are infiltrating the marches and muddying up the message. They are the ones encouraging civil disobedience and are riding the coat tails of our issue, in order to further their agenda.....which is basically, chaos by any means necessary. I've had my hands full for the past 4 days.
 
Good to hear from you, Trooper. I was wondering if you had been working at all or only protesting. I've been looking for you in the background at the protests but hadn't seen you on the local news footage.



What will you be doing in your new/old position? And how are others in the dept. treating you since you've been in the protests?
 
Anon., I was off duty and protested (legally) the first two days after 8 passed. I guess I still have some Constitutional rights to benefit from......



From the 3rd day on, I got pulled into my former job....no brainer since I have tons of community contacts to tap trying to keep people calm. I stopped a riot last night. And I'm not kidding.



I'll just be loaned to the protests when/if they need me, otherwise I'll still work my normal patrol position.



Fellow coworkers: I'm new to the Division I'm assigned at, so most don't know I'm gay....so no impact. The officers on the line (uh, skirmish line) were very respectful, and I suspect very appreciative that I was getting protesters out of their faces last night.



Who knows. I have no idea who voted for 8 and who didn't.



BTW, Chief Bratton donated to the No on 8 campaign. He has a lesbian sister and speaks of her frequently. He gets it.
 
I was just reading <a href="http://www.ocregister.com/articles/marriage-church-prop-2222946-laguna-people">this article</a> in OCR about the protest at Saddleback Church.



I must admit... I find it difficult to reconcile that people who do not like protesters at their gay pride parades or other events... would have no trouble protesting at someone else's event.... during a Sabbath day and during worship times which is a holy thing for many attendees. That just seems so tacky, and as with the protesters at gay pride parades... I do not think it helps their image one bit. (A candlelight vigil might be ok... holding up a swastika... not so much.)
 
All bets are off now SoCal78. You expect us, as a community, to respect you now ? The Saddleback Church ? Sorry...but that's kind of laughable.
 
[quote author="Trooper" date=1226318439]All bets are off now SoCal78. You expect us, as a community, to respect you now ? The Saddleback Church ? Sorry...but that's kind of laughable.</blockquote>


Again Trooper, you may want to take a step back and let the emotions cool down. If you want people to respect you, you are going to have to respect them. You can't brow beat people into respecting you. The Constitution of this country gives people certain freedoms. Freedoms are generally bounded so that they don't interfere with other freedoms. While you do have freedom of speech, Christians have religious freedoms and the right to exercise those freedoms. Your freedom of speech ends when it prevents others from exercising their freedom to worship God.



You may not realize it, but you are hurting the cause you are trying to advance.
 
[quote author="WINEX" date=1226319290]



Again Trooper, you may want to take a step back and let the emotions cool down. If you want people to respect you, you are going to have to respect them. You can't brow beat people into respecting you. The Constitution of this country gives people certain freedoms. Freedoms are generally bounded so that they don't interfere with other freedoms. While you do have freedom of speech, Christians have religious freedoms and the right to exercise those freedoms. Your freedom of speech ends when it prevents others from exercising their freedom to worship God.



You may not realize it, but you are hurting the cause you are trying to advance.</blockquote>


No, you're wrong. Trooper's use of her free speech right is not hurting the cause she is trying to advance; on the contrary, it makes the Cause more personalized, which is what some people need to see in order to understand how the rights of some do not extend to the rights of all.



As far as respecting Trooper, I do, very much so. As for you, not so much. Take a look in the mirror and see who's trying to cram an agenda down everyone's throat.
 
I was at the protest at the Catholic Cathedral in downtown LA today. There was no interference with worship, they were on the sidewalk only....so perhaps you should read the statute and fully understand "interruption of worship" before you speak.



<strong>"The Constitution of this country gives people certain freedoms"</strong>



Yes, that sounds vaguely familiar...... like when I Google "Pursuit of Happiness" this silly saying pops up first....



The phrase is based on the writings of John Locke, who expressed a similar concept of "life, liberty, and estate (property)". Locke said that "n<strong>o one ought to harm another in his life, liberty, or possessions</strong>."[1] George Mason, in the Virginia Declaration of Rights rephrased it as: "<strong>That all men are by nature equally free and independent and have certain inherent rights, ... namely the enjoyment of life and liberty, with the means of acquiring and possessing property, and pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety</strong>." The fact that this document was approved in Virginia just days before the Second Continental Congress met indicates that Jefferson was very much influenced by it.

Written by Thomas Jefferson, the words rephrase his friend Mason's words more concisely. <strong>The term "liberty" covers a broad spectrum of rights,</strong> possibly including the guarantees of the Bill of Rights such as free speech and a fair trial. Jefferson's formulation omits mentioning property rights; Jefferson apparently considered property rights to be included in "pursuit of happiness."



So, if you are the "Constitutionalist" that you claim to be, this should be pretty clear.
 
[quote author="Trooper" date=1226319900]I was at the protest at the Catholic Cathedral in downtown LA today. There was no interference with worship, they were on the sidewalk only....so perhaps you should read the statute and fully understand it before you speak.



<strong>"The Constitution of this country gives people certain freedoms"</strong>



Yes, that sounds vaguely familiar...... like when I Google "Pursuit of Happiness" this silly saying pops up first....



<em>The phrase is based on the writings of John Locke, who expressed a similar concept of "life, liberty, and estate (property)". Locke said that "n<strong>o one ought to harm another in his life, liberty, or possessions</strong>."[1] George Mason, in the Virginia Declaration of Rights rephrased it as: "<strong>That all men are by nature equally free and independent and have certain inherent rights, ... namely the enjoyment of life and liberty, with the means of acquiring and possessing property, and pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety</strong>." The fact that this document was approved in Virginia just days before the Second Continental Congress met indicates that Jefferson was very much influenced by it.

Written by Thomas Jefferson, the words rephrase his friend Mason's words more concisely. The term "liberty" covers a broad spectrum of rights, possibly including the guarantees of the Bill of Rights such as free speech and a fair trial. Jefferson's formulation omits mentioning property rights; Jefferson apparently considered property rights to be included in "pursuit of happiness." Jefferson never elaborated on the phrase in his writings, so interpretation is subject to speculation.</em>



So, if you are the "Constitutionalist" that you claim to be, this should be pretty clear.</blockquote>


Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness aren't in the Constitution. They ARE in the Declaration of Independence.
 
ok, so pretend you are me for one moment. A Gay American. One who is a bonafide PATRIOT and thrust into this limelight of "rights vs no rights". You would simply give up ? Seriously ? I'm not kidding. Put yourself in my shoes and tell me you wouldn't fight for all you are worth to obtain it. I think you would, because you sound as passionate as I am on the issue. Have you ever considered my side...and if you were me ?



Seriously. I tried to sign up to serve in the military after 9/11, but was told I was too old. I WANTED TO DEFEND THIS COUNTRY....we are similar in some ways you know....
 
[quote author="Trooper" date=1226320247]ok, so pretend you are me for one moment. A Gay American. One who is a bonafide PATRIOT and thrust into this limelight of "rights vs no rights". You would simply give up ? Seriously ? I'm not kidding. Put yourself in my shoes and tell me you wouldn't fight for all you are worth to obtain it. I think you would, because you sound as passionate as I am on the issue. Have you ever considered my side...and if you were me ?



Seriously. I tried to sign up to serve in the military after 9/11, but was told I was too old. I WANTED TO DEFEND THIS COUNTRY....we are similar in some ways you know....</blockquote>


Honestly Trooper, I would be more than happy to discuss this topic with you. Either in public, or via IM. But I think that your emotions are too raw right now. If that weren't the case, you couldn't honestly say that protesting churches on a day of worship doesn't interfere with the free exercise of religion guaranteed by our Constitution. As I said before, you can't brow beat people into accepting you. You are hurting your cause right now, not helping it.
 
<em>Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness aren?t in the Constitution. They ARE in the Declaration of Independence</em>.



ok, so I'm no scholar and should have said the Bill of Rights...which is comprised of the first 10 amendments to the Constitution....



"<strong>In addition, the Bill of Rights states that "the enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people"</strong>



I mean, we could probably go at this all night, but I'm tired and am going to sleep.



Anyone want to make a wager that gay marriage will be legal in the next four years? That's if the SCOTUS doesn't take the issue up and put it to bed sooner.
 
WINEX, disrupting a house of worship means walking into a service and messing with it. IN the church, INSIDE the mass, etc. It most certainly does not pertain to protests outside on the sidewalk. You can trust me on this one.



It's that pesky "1st Amendment" thingy.
 
[quote author="Trooper" date=1226320981]<em>Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness aren?t in the Constitution. They ARE in the Declaration of Independence</em>.



ok, so I'm no scholar and should have said the Bill of Rights...which is comprised of the first 10 amendments to the Constitution....



"<strong>In addition, the Bill of Rights states that "the enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people"</strong>



I mean, we could probably go at this all night, but I'm tired and am going to sleep.



Anyone want to make a wager that gay marriage will be legal in the next four years? That's if the SCOTUS doesn't take the issue up and put it to bed sooner.</blockquote>




Ummm, you still would have been wrong.



The first 10 amendments of the Constitution are also known as the Bill of Rights. Nowhere in the Constitution is there a guarantee of the pursuit of happiness.



The Declaration of Independence does mention the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. But that document has nothing to do with laws and rights in the United States. It was our founding forefathers way of telling England that we were no longer a colony.



I hate to ask this question, but shouldn't a police officer have at least a passing familiarity with the laws of our nation?
 
[quote author="Trooper" date=1226321108]WINEX, disrupting a house of worship means walking into a service and messing with it. IN the church, INSIDE the mass, etc. It most certainly does not pertain to protests outside on the sidewalk. You can trust me on this one.



It's that pesky "1st Amendment" thingy.</blockquote>


There are all kinds of laws that regulate what is and what isn't legal during a protest. But even if a protest is within the law, the fact is that protesting churches during worship is building bad will with people who may have actually voted "No" on Proposition 8. Taking an "in-your-face" attitude isn't going to win friends and influence people. Whether or not the protests are legal is irrelevant. It's bad PR.



You can trust me on this one.
 
[quote author="WINEX" date=1226323190]Taking an "in-your-face" attitude isn't going to win friends and influence people. </blockquote>


Oh, I see. It's ok for Republicans and "Yes on 8" people to do so, but not anyone else.
 
As seen in Sgt. Pepper's Dueling Piano Bar in Long Beach:



<img width="600" src="http://www.cayci.com/pictures/Gen30thBday2008/IMG_4498.jpg">



<img width="600" src="http://www.cayci.com/pictures/Gen30thBday2008/IMG_4499.jpg">



<img width="600" src="http://www.cayci.com/pictures/Gen30thBday2008/IMG_4500.jpg">



It was the "Phrase of the Night" for a while when Graph and I first got there on Saturday night.
 
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