Does graduating from a magnet school help you to go to an Ivy league or a UCLA/USC/UCB?

I

irvine_resident_IHB

New member
Hello Everyone,



I have been a regular at this forum for quite sometime now. I have a question about the true value of high schools



If a kid goes to Troy Tech ( A magnet school in Fullerton ranked in Top 25 in USA), does his chances of landing in any ivy league or a USC/UCLA increase? If the same kid goes to Irvine High and does very well with APs, P-SAT and SAT, is he going to be at a disadvantage compared to kids who graduate from a magnet school like Troy Tech ( or Uni High)?



Thanks
 
I would think it has more to do with the student then the school. Better high schools put more kids in better colleges because smarter, hardworking students attend those high schools.
 
<p>I am no expert but I did work at a small private college for awhile (although not in admissions) and my personal opinion is that I want my kids to go to a good high school but unless there were other circumstances I will not go to crazy attempts to get them in the 'best' high school - my reason is that my sense of admissions is that they are looking for kids that not only have straight A's but also have numerous other accomplishments, i.e, debate team, sports, church, leadership, research, etc. etc...... I know this may sound bad but I want the A's to come easy for my children - so that they can focus on getting all those other things that colleges seem to be looking for these days. So, a high school that was too competitive in the classroom would not be my ideal. On the other hand - some magnet schools will provide all those extra opportunities which would be great. For me I will balance all these issues with my child's temperment and what is available at the time.</p>
 
From what I know, there is a lot of debate about this type of thing. There are lots of variables involved when it comes to college admission, and there is rarely a simple or straightforward answer or path to getting accepted to a particular school. This is why there is big business in private college consultants. Just do a Google search and you'll see all kinds of companies, like Professional College Consulting of America (<a href="http://www.pccofa.com">http://www.pccofa.com</a>).
 
<em>If the same kid goes to Irvine High and does very well with APs, P-SAT and SAT, is he going to be at a disadvantage compared to kids who graduate from a magnet school like Troy Tech ( or Uni High)?</em>





this my sound like an odd thing to do in regards to this topic, but i would highly suggest picking up a copy of Freakonomics. there's a section that discusses causal effects as it relates to many common parenting issues. for example, what's the more impt factor in child automotive safety -- is it the top-of-the-line car seat itself that really matters, or is it parents who are cautious, protective, and drive safely (i.e. the same people most likely to buy that car seat)?





is uni high really that much better than everyone else? or is it better simply because uni high is comprised of a student body with parents that are:


1) affluent (yes, this matters. but likely because of the below reasons)


2) so intent on getting their kids into uni high they will pay a premium to live in TR, and subsequently...


3) more likely to be involved in their education


4) more likely to push their kids hard academically


5) more likely to spend additional resources, time and money, on tutoring, prep courses, etc.





it's almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy. put those same kids, along with their parents, in any decent school -- will their destiny be any different? i guess that's up to you to decide. but if you're asking the question to begin with, sounds like your child already has a leg up!
 
Thanks guys for taking out your time and giving your valuable input. I really appreciate it.



Acpme, My son will go to Irvine high this fall if we decide not to pursue Troy Tech. I have read some very good things about Troy Tech and their Tech and IB programs. Most of the students graduating from Troy Tech go to very good colleges. Keeping other factors ( like ECs, leadership skills and other non academic stuff) the same, does it provide any value? As you guessed, he is very strong in Academics. He is doing Honors Geometry in Irvine High and he is on track to do a lot of APs.
 
A 3.5 GPA student from a ghetto school has a much higher chance getiing into Stanford than a 4.3 GPA student from Uni High. The admission committee values diadvantaged background students.
 
I personally would let him go to Irvine High unless he specifically wants to go to Troy. What does he think about it - would he be sad not going to the same HS as his friends? Troy is a very stressful and competitive place (though, obviously, you would get a good education), from the ppl I know who have come through there. As many have said, if he is a good student and you as parents are involved, you can make your own destiny.





I went the public non-magnet school route and made it to one of the Ivies. It can be done!
 
<p>I used to work with a lawyer who graduated from Harvard. He also did some interviews of the students who were applying to Harvard. I don't know how much of the application process he told me about was accurate but I will share what he told me. </p>

<p>1) Unless your student was well rounded they had a very slim chance of getting in. He had a student from UNI applying who had the highest gpa possible but no extra curricular activites and he did not get in.


2) From how he described it Harvard had a cap of the number of students they would allow in per school. So on average only 1-2 students per school would get in.</p>

<p>I don't know if this is still accurate or even if this applies to some of the other ivies.</p>
 
<em>If a kid goes to Troy Tech ( A magnet school in Fullerton ranked in Top 25 in USA), does his chances of landing in any ivy league or a USC/UCLA increase?





</em>First of all, I'm assuming that you are referring to Troy's Magnet Program, which as far as I know is distinct from their "regular" public school program (kids who are fed into the school based on their location). Your kid will have to pass an admissions test administered in December to get into the Magnet Program. For more information see here: <a href="http://www.publicschoolreview.com/school_ov/school_id/7490">http://www.publicschoolreview.com/school_ov/school_id/7490</a>





If you assume that all kids are equal (in brainpower, special extracurricular talents, ability to market oneself in the application process, legacy-donor status/connections), then yes, going to a magnet high school appears to increase their chances of matriculating to an "elite" college. After all, Troy, Whitney, and private boarding schools like Harvard-Westlake and Phillips Exeter send a higher proportion of their students to those "elite" institutions. But, that would be a pretty preposterous assumption wouldn't it?





<strong>Don't mistake correlation for causation here</strong>. Going to Troy is not a guarantee that your kid will be going to Stanford. See <a href="http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2007/5/24/imposterCaught">Azia Kim</a>, who after graduating from Troy, attended Stanford for a year - despite the tiny problem that she was never admitted in the first place. It is a testament to the academic pressures that she faced at Troy and from her family that she had to construct an alternate reality of herself - one that gained admission to Stanford - in order to impress her family and friends. For students similar to Azia, who are not smart enough or cannot handle the increased pressures, I would argue that going to Troy could minimize their potential for matriculating to an "elite" college because their confidence is undermined.





In my opinion, the reason why Troy or Uni sends more students to those colleges is because their student body has a high proportion of Asian students who come from demanding families who place an emphasis on academics. Each of those schools have a plurality of Asian students. For magnet schools like Troy and Whitney, they actively select for students that have great academic potential by administering an admissions test. On this basis alone you cannot compare the "quality" of the high schools without talking about the inherent "quality" of the student body.





You can make an argument for sending your kid to a magnet school or another highly competitive public high school if you know for certain that your kid thrives in competitive environments and is motivated by their peers constantly playing the game of academic one-upsmanship. Most (if not all) parents cannot objectively look at their kids and determine if they have the goods to succeed in a competitive environment. After all, our kids are a reflection of our own genes. We all would like to think that our kids have the brainpower and talent to do this. Unfortunately, this isn't the case.





<em>If the same kid goes to Irvine High and does very well with APs, P-SAT and SAT, is he going to be at a disadvantage compared to kids who graduate from a magnet school like Troy Tech ( or Uni High)?


</em>


If you take Student A who goes to Uni/Troy with 1500 SATs (old scale), 4.0 GPA, and Student B, who goes to Irvine with 1500 SATs, 4.0 GPA, it's an academic tie. It'll come down to their extracurricular activities, accomplishments, and ability to market themselves on their application to break the tie. If Troy offers after-school activities that would result in your kid having said accomplishments, it would help, but then again it's up to your kid to take advantage of those things.





<a href="http://forums.irvinehousingblog.com/discussion/1909/zip-codes-92618-92620-92603/#Item_10">"It ain't the school. It's your kid."</a>
 
Muffdaddy,



My son got admitted to Troy Tech and their IB program thru an entrance exam which was held in Jan 2008.



Your post was very objective. Thanks
 
<em>1) Unless your student was well rounded they had a very slim chance of getting in. He had a student from UNI applying who had the highest gpa possible but no extra curricular activites and he did not get in. </em>


Yup, it's true. Actually, schools like Harvard described their ideal applicant as a slightly lopsided ball - well rounded in academics, extracurriculars, etc, (this still means in the top 1%) but has one amazing talent - something that gets recognition preferably on the national/country level (Boys/Girls Nation, International Math Olympiad).





<em> 2) From how he described it Harvard had a cap of the number of students they would allow in per school. So on average only 1-2 students per school would get in.


</em>Well, I'm hesitant to answer this question because it sounds like it flies the face of my previous post (but it really doesn't). I know that some magnets and private schools like Harvard-Westlake, Phillips Exeter, Stuyvesant sometimes get more than 10 kids admitted to Harvard. According to <a href="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CE6D8163AF931A35757C0A96E958260">this NY Times article</a>, in 1997, "21 of 700 seniors were admitted to Harvard, 20 to Yale, 47 to Columbia and 103 to Cornell" (eat your heart out Troy). But the reason for that is that those students are REALLY amazing<strong></strong> and would be valedictorians at any other public high school.
 
this whole discussion just confirms my decision to not start my summer bday child in kind until she is 6 - it is hard to believe how incredibly competitive and demanding school has become.
 
<p> most kids turn 6 during kindergarten - turn 18 during thier senior year - she will turn 6 the summer before kindergarten and 18 the summer before her senior year - she really wont be older except by a few months.</p>
 
<em>Unless your student was well rounded they had a very slim chance of getting in. He had a student from UNI applying who had the highest gpa possible but no extra curricular activites and he did not get in.





</em>what i've heard from recruiters at another Ivy is somewhat different. they said they're not necessarily looking for well-rounded students. they're looking for a well-rounded student body. i think they're both saying sort of the same thing though -- just being book smart is not enough. top schools want to see you're a real person with talents and abilities to contribute outside of the classroom.





what that doesnt mean is go joina bunch of clubs and activities, then participate half-heartedly so you can put it on your resume. they know when you're faking it.





assuming they're all the same academically, the star in a particular sport, capt of the debate team, organizer of volunteer program, or asb president is more valuable to a university than a kid who is involved in all of those activities but only as a participant.
 
<p>acpme - that was exactly my impression at the college I worked at. </p>

<p>This was similar in graduate school in the sense that they just didn't want people who had participated in research as an undergraduate - they wanted students who had actually done some sort of research in thier undergrad or masters program.</p>

<p>lots of pressure! only one person can be asb president!</p>
 
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