Do you know people who are likely to lose their homes?

[quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1242949513]More from my email source:



Now that I have quick access to [public] home mortgage information, it is easy to pull the curtains back and confirm excess where I think I see it. I'll site two recent examples:



1) One of my favorite shows is the Dog Whisperer. This person goes to different subjects' homes and helps them with their dog issues. About 20-25% of the time, I can tell that the people Cesar Millan visits are way overleveraged with their mortgages. How can I tell? Call it a hunch; I've got a strong, innate aptitude for situational awareness (pilots call it "S.A."). The other night featured a couple from Castaic, California, and I had a funny feeling they were in way over their heads in real estate. Well, they say their name and location on the show, so I looked up their info and confirmed my suspicions: they bought a place for $460k and local comps are now selling for the low $300s. Check back in six months and those homes will be well under $300k. They've got a toxic mortgage, which is obviously the only way they could "afford" to buy that home. They had that fact written all over them during the show.



2) Last night I saw on the L.A. news that an Orange County woman was picked up for a murder she allegedly committed 10 years ago. A rather attractive blonde, with a super-racy Facebook photo, lots of jewelry, and an over-priced stucco box in Ladera Ranch. I knew right away where this was headed.....she was one of Fraudera Ranch's posers, and likely had a toxic mortgage. Sure enough, a contact confirmed she paid over $1.2 million for a home with essentially no money down. What a surprise. Ladera is getting hammered.



My short position in California real estate continues to strengthen thanks to examples like these....</blockquote>


I like Cesar.





That is wierd that you have that sense about folks who are overextended. I think I have that sense about folks who are BSing.

Who did the woman alledgely murder? What relation to her?
 
[quote author="awgee" date=1242960636]Who did the woman alledgely murder? What relation to her?</blockquote>


It was her live-in boyfriend. 20 yrs her senior. He was loaded as he invented a blood filtration system of some sort. They must have been pretty serious because she was the beneficiary for his life insurance. <a href="http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/05/in-1991-wealthy-newport-beach-businessman-bill-mclaughlin-answered-a-personal-ad-from-a-woman-that-read-i-know-how-to.html">LA Times article.</a>



Interestingly this woman has a difference name in every article I've read. <a href="http://www.ocregister.com/articles/mclaughlin-johnston-naposki-2421992-accounts-beach">OC Register calls her Nannette Johnson</a>. CNN calls her a hybrid version of the two names -<a href="http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/05/21/cold.case.arrest/index.html">Nannette Packard McNeal</a>
 
[quote author="morekaos" date=1242963973]This woman is scum



<a href="http://www.dailynews.com/news/ci_12419097">Black Widow</a></blockquote>




Is she a realtor?
 
I don't know these people, but they are squatting in the home we would like to buy. It's a short sale and we've been waiting a little over a month to hear back about our offer. The "tenants" have been there most likely rent free for nearly a year and actually have a renter in one room, so they're making a profit! Then to boot, we found out they've filed for bankruptcy, which then halts all account activity (including the sale of a house) and buys them more time, rent free. Nice system.
 
[quote author="readytopurchase" date=1242974659]I don't know these people, but they are squatting in the home we would like to buy. It's a short sale and we've been waiting a little over a month to hear back about our offer. The "tenants" have been there most likely rent free for nearly a year and actually have a renter in one room, so they're making a profit! Then to boot, we found out they've filed for bankruptcy, which then halts all account activity (including the sale of a house) and buys them more time, rent free. Nice system.</blockquote>


It's my understanding that if you re-fi with cash out, then the loan is no longer a non-recourse in CA. In other words, the bank could come after you for the difference, that is unless you file BK.
 
[quote author="stepping_up" date=1242974985][quote author="readytopurchase" date=1242974659]I don't know these people, but they are squatting in the home we would like to buy. It's a short sale and we've been waiting a little over a month to hear back about our offer. The "tenants" have been there most likely rent free for nearly a year and actually have a renter in one room, so they're making a profit! Then to boot, we found out they've filed for bankruptcy, which then halts all account activity (including the sale of a house) and buys them more time, rent free. Nice system.</blockquote>


It's my understanding that if you re-fi with cash out, then the loan is no longer a non-recourse in CA. In other words, the bank could come after you for the difference, that is unless you file BK.</blockquote>


So you believe the tenants are filing bankruptcy so that they don't have to payback their cash out from the HELOC?
 
[quote author="stepping_up" date=1242974985][quote author="readytopurchase" date=1242974659]I don't know these people, but they are squatting in the home we would like to buy. It's a short sale and we've been waiting a little over a month to hear back about our offer. The "tenants" have been there most likely rent free for nearly a year and actually have a renter in one room, so they're making a profit! Then to boot, we found out they've filed for bankruptcy, which then halts all account activity (including the sale of a house) and buys them more time, rent free. Nice system.</blockquote>


It's my understanding that if you re-fi with cash out, then the loan is no longer a non-recourse in CA. In other words, the bank could come after you for the difference, that is unless you file BK.</blockquote>


I'm no expert but from my recent research online I believe it is more complex than that. For every case that I found fit into your description above I found another that had the mortgage abusers exempt.



I think the old adage was that any HELOC cash-out or second-mortgage money was considered income and the government would come after you for the taxes. I don't think that's universally true. If it is, there will be BK's in the hundreds of thousands.
 
[quote author="readytopurchase" date=1242974659]I don't know these people, but they are squatting in the home we would like to buy. It's a short sale and we've been waiting a little over a month to hear back about our offer. The "tenants" have been there most likely rent free for nearly a year and actually have a renter in one room, so they're making a profit! Then to boot, we found out they've filed for bankruptcy, which then halts all account activity (including the sale of a house) and buys them more time, rent free. Nice system.</blockquote>


Don't, I repeat DON'T get your heart set on this house. It is extremely unlikely that you will get it. Stop thinking about it and imagining what you will do when you live in it, whose room is whose and any other dream you have about this house, you will only be disappointed.
 
wow, after reading all these comments, i don't feel sorry for any of these people who are losing their homes. on a lighter note, i have several friends with stable jobs and decent income who decided to not buy during the boom; now they're looking forward to go homeshopping this summer.



i have one friend who bought several houses during the boom. now she's planning an extravagant wedding for this summer. i wonder if that means anything.

regardless if she loses all her equity, houses, and credit, at least she and her fiancee still have well-paying jobs. i guess she figures they can just start from square one with their jobs.



i have another friend who bought his house with 20% down. he actually moved out of state for a job, but still pays his mortgage while renting out his condo. i think he's one of the few who's sticking to his loan agreement although his property is upside down.



my question is.... who's suffering the most in this economy? and who's benefiting the most?
 
WTF! Taxable value is $183K, so this thing should be practically owned out right, yet it is a short sale at $299K? You have to wonder if something tragic happened or if they just ATM'd their house.

<a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Costa-Mesa/531-Pierpont-Dr-92626/home/4546981">531 Pierpont</a>
 
[quote author="hs_teacher" date=1243036899]my question is.... who's suffering the most in this economy? and who's benefiting the most?</blockquote>


Hurting: (1) People with debt, (2) those who are out of work, and (3) those who own real estate. The unemployed with huge debts on real estate are suffering the most. There are many of these people.



Benefiting: (1) Renters with (2a) savings and (2b) no debt (3) that still have a job. These are the people who will get fantastic deals on real estate if they can be patient enough to wait for prices to fall to below rental parity.



Whichever list you are on and the more of the items you have is the degree to which you are hurting or benefiting from the collapse.
 
[quote author="stepping_up" date=1243038157]WTF! Taxable value is $183K, so this thing should be practically owned out right, yet it is a short sale at $299K? You have to wonder if something tragic happened or if they just ATM'd their house.

<a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Costa-Mesa/531-Pierpont-Dr-92626/home/4546981">531 Pierpont</a></blockquote>


The only tragedy is that the rest of us chose not to abuse the system like this:



Recording Date: 01/09/2002

Mortgage Information

Mortgage Type: NON-PURCHASE MONEY

Loan Amount: $164,000



Recording Date: 11/20/2002

Mortgage Type: NON-PURCHASE MONEY

Loan Amount: $240,000

Loan Type: STAND-ALONE FIRST



Recording Date: 08/10/2005

Mortgage Type: NON-PURCHASE MONEY

Loan Amount: $80,000

Loan Type: CREDIT LINE (REVOLVING)



Recording Date: 11/22/2006

Mortgage Type: NON-PURCHASE MONEY

Loan Amount: $415,000
 
[quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1243042157][quote author="hs_teacher" date=1243036899]my question is.... who's suffering the most in this economy? and who's benefiting the most?</blockquote>


Hurting: (1) People with debt, (2) those who are out of work, and (3) those who own real estate. The unemployed with huge debts on real estate are suffering the most. There are many of these people.



Benefiting: (1) Renters with (2a) savings and (2b) no debt (3) that still have a job. These are the people who will get fantastic deals on real estate if they can be patient enough to wait for prices to fall to below rental parity.



Whichever list you are on and the more of the items you have is the degree to which you are hurting or benefiting from the collapse.</blockquote>




you forgot:



Hurting (1) Renters (4) who lose their jobs = out on the street.



Benefiting (1) People with debt who (3) own/fake own real estate = living rent free at taxpayer expense
 
I am not sure that prudent renters and savers are really benefiting. They are only hurting less than the first group.



The way the government is handling this crisis, the only people that are truly a benefiting are bankrupt bank executives who are getting a free ride on the back of the taxpayers.



We're seeing the results of the government intervention right now. Debasing the currency, which will erode our savings in the long run. Slowing down the foreclosures, which means waiting more years for prices to become realistic. Creating perverse incentives for banks and debtors, so that instead of kicking them out of their houses, they get to live there rent-free for an year. And so on, and so on.



I am disappointed because I am on the losing side of that trade (still renting even though I can afford to buy, but I can't force myself to buy a depreciating asset). I've been thinking about this for a long time and I worry daily about how this is going to play out. And I don't see myself really benefiting from this crisis. Sure, I avoided much worse outcomes, but it still doesn't feel like a win. Just because at the end, after years of doing the prudent thing and holding out, we'll be able to buy a nice house doesn't mean that we've really won anything. I suppose if one measures his success relative to his neighbors, he can feel good about this, but measured by absolute standards, everyone loses.
 
[quote author="freedomCM" date=1243045039]

you forgot:



Hurting (1) Renters (4) who lose their jobs = out on the street.



<strong>Benefiting (1) People with debt who (3) own/fake own real estate = living rent free at taxpayer expense</strong></blockquote>


That is so true. This morning I read an update from somebody I know on another site I'm on. She is married but she and her ex are the ones whose names are on the house she currently lives in without the ex. The ex is coming after her and her new husband for money to stay current with their shared mortgage (actually, 2 mortgages.) Her and her new husband have decided to see a lawyer about filing bankruptcy... to keep the ex away and also because they were already struggling with bills since her new husband lost his job last year. Here is what the lawyer told them to do. I will copy & paste:



"The appointment with the lawyer went okay yesterday. He said there was no immediate hurry to file, other than the wage garnishment that is coming down the pipeline next month. He said to definitely stop paying on all of our credit cards and the two mortgages, and to just save that money as best we can so we can move when the time comes. I guess in our area, foreclosures are taking 6-12 months. <strong>The lawyer said ideally, he'd like to see us file after the foreclosure has gone to court, so we can get the maximum amount of time, living without rent or mortgage expenses.</strong> The entire thing is going to cost us a few hundred more than I had expected, but it's doable and I left the office feeling a bit better...<strong>we should be able to afford <extra things> with little problem since we're not paying anything else now. </strong>" She went on by saying she is dumping the mortgage on the ex and had to break the news to him about their bankruptcy. Well he responded by saying he's decided to stop paying too and file Bk as well.



Another person responded by saying:



"You don't have to lose the house. We filled Chap 13 and kept ours. The arrearage goes into the bankruptcy. You only pay one penny on the dollar on any unsecured debt. It isn't as bad as most people believe it to be. It was really the best thing for us."



o_O
 
[quote author="hedgehog" date=1243083088]I am not sure that prudent renters and savers are really benefiting. They are only hurting less than the first group.



The way the government is handling this crisis, the only people that are truly a benefiting are bankrupt bank executives who are getting a free ride on the back of the taxpayers.



We're seeing the results of the government intervention right now. Debasing the currency, which will erode our savings in the long run. Slowing down the foreclosures, which means waiting more years for prices to become realistic. Creating perverse incentives for banks and debtors, so that instead of kicking them out of their houses, they get to live there rent-free for an year. And so on, and so on.



I am disappointed because I am on the losing side of that trade (still renting even though I can afford to buy, but I can't force myself to buy a depreciating asset). I've been thinking about this for a long time and I worry daily about how this is going to play out. And I don't see myself really benefiting from this crisis. Sure, I avoided much worse outcomes, but it still doesn't feel like a win. Just because at the end, after years of doing the prudent thing and holding out, we'll be able to buy a nice house doesn't mean that we've really won anything. I suppose if one measures his success relative to his neighbors, he can feel good about this, but measured by absolute standards, everyone loses.</blockquote>


The bank executives aren't benefiting. Many have been laid off, the rest are making much less than they used to. They still make a lot, but if you go from making a million a year to $200k, you aren't benefiting.
 
[quote author="Geotpf" date=1243149684]

The bank executives aren't benefiting. Many have been laid off, the rest are making much less than they used to. They still make a lot, but if you go from making a million a year to $200k, you aren't benefiting.</blockquote>


Sure, I agree with that. What I meant that they are benefiting from the government's intervention, not from the economy. Making 200K while the gov is propping up the bank instead of the bank being closed down and their being left without a job. I'd call that benefiting.





Back on topic, I think I know only person who lost their home in San Clemente. It was classing overstretching, bought at the peak of the bubble with something like 25% down, I believe. After spending about an year in despair, he finally priced it aggressively under the rest of the houses in the area, sold it quickly, basically wiped out all of his downpayment, and is now trying to rebuild his life.

What I find most amazing is not how irresponsibly he lost a lot of money, but that he responsibly took the loss and moved on. He could have done the same as all of the people who just stop paying and then live in the homes rent-free for 1 year or more. Unfortunately, it seems that few would do the honorable thing in such a situation.
 
[quote author="SoCal78" date=1243123598]

That is so true. This morning I read an update from somebody I know on another site I'm on. She is married but she and her ex are the ones whose names are on the house she currently lives in without the ex. The ex is coming after her and her new husband for money to stay current with their shared mortgage (actually, 2 mortgages.) Her and her new husband have decided to see a lawyer about filing bankruptcy... to keep the ex away and also because they were already struggling with bills since her new husband lost his job last year. Here is what the lawyer told them to do. I will copy & paste:



"The appointment with the lawyer went okay yesterday. He said there was no immediate hurry to file, other than the wage garnishment that is coming down the pipeline next month. He said to definitely stop paying on all of our credit cards and the two mortgages, and to just save that money as best we can so we can move when the time comes. I guess in our area, foreclosures are taking 6-12 months. <strong>The lawyer said ideally, he'd like to see us file after the foreclosure has gone to court, so we can get the maximum amount of time, living without rent or mortgage expenses.</strong> The entire thing is going to cost us a few hundred more than I had expected, but it's doable and I left the office feeling a bit better...<strong>we should be able to afford <extra things> with little problem since we're not paying anything else now. </strong>" She went on by saying she is dumping the mortgage on the ex and had to break the news to him about their bankruptcy. Well he responded by saying he's decided to stop paying too and file Bk as well.



Another person responded by saying:



"You don't have to lose the house. We filled Chap 13 and kept ours. The arrearage goes into the bankruptcy. You only pay one penny on the dollar on any unsecured debt. It isn't as bad as most people believe it to be. It was really the best thing for us."



o_O</blockquote>


I find that entire situation disgusting. My face scrunched up as I read. Just terrible.
 
<a href="http://www.ocregister.com/articles/home-palmer-house-2425795-sunny-family">Foreclosure in Orange County: 'Like a death'</a>



Behind the numbers lie stories of family struggle, pain and endurance.



By GREG HARDESTY and RASHI KESARWANI

The Orange County Register



<em>Where we love is home,



Home that our feet may leave, but not our hearts.</em>



? Oliver Wendell Holmes



In January 2008, Kevin Palmer was told he would have to vacate his Laguna Niguel home in 30 days.



In reluctantly doing so, Palmer became one of the first homeowners in Orange County to be swept up in the recent wave of foreclosures that has drowned out the dreams of thousands.



"What do you do in 30 days to undo 10 years of your life?" Palmer says.



As foreclosures continue to stack up, vulnerable homeowners are coping with the reality ? or prospect ? of losing a huge part of their identity and starting over.



Some mental health experts liken the experience to grieving over a loved one's death.



"Being foreclosed upon can sometimes be more than like a death in the family," said Sharon Gerstenzang, Ph.D., a psychologist in Fountain Valley who specializes in high conflict, trauma and crisis.



"It's like a repeated death. Every day the homeowner wakes up and thinks, 'I just lost my house.' They can feel mind-bending, soul-searing humiliation and shame."



The number of people experiencing such wrenching feelings continues to grow in a county almost mockingly full of beautiful places, beautiful people, big cars, big homes ? and a persistent promise of the good life even during tough times.



According to the latest numbers, lenders filed 2,946 notices of default in April in Orange County, down 15 percent from March but up 13 percent from a year ago, according to DataQuick. The total in March was the highest in at least 17 years.



A decline in foreclosures in April, when banks took 482 houses and condos in Orange County away from delinquent borrowers, the lowest total in 17 months and down 46 percent from a year ago, could be temporary, experts say.



A new state law in October has mostly delayed foreclosures, not prevented them, some experts believe.



The foreclosure fiasco continues to unspool stories of dread, anxiety and resolve.



<strong>BURNING SAVINGS</strong>



It took 10 years for Kevin Palmer to save $30,000 for his dream house, and less than a year to burn through that much as he fought to keep it.



Palmer, 49, still is struggling to pick up the pieces, looking for work and living at Mercy House, a transitional housing shelter in Santa Ana



He survives on weekly $235 unemployment checks and drives a 1991 Toyota Tercel with a shattered window. His Mercy House room costs $225 a month.



Less than a year and a half ago, Palmer was making $70,000 as a property manager and living in the condo he bought in 2000 for $198,000.



For years, he had handily made his $1,275 mortgage payment at a fixed rate of 12.75 percent.



A health issue he declined to discuss forced him to take out an adjustable-rate home-equity loan to pay for drugs that weren't covered by insurance.



In January 2007, Palmer got a letter from his lender telling him his mortgage was going up to $2,850 per month. The higher payments started depleting his savings.



Then, in June 2007, his mortgage payment was adjusted upward again, to $3,550.



Palmer couldn't afford it.



After burning through most of his savings, he defaulted on the loan and was told to leave his home by late January 2008.



"You never want to believe that you may lose your house," says Palmer, who was laid off that same month



He moved into a windowless, 8-by-12-foot office suite in Lake Forest and showered at a gym until he landed the room at Mercy House.



He continues to look for work and has filed for Chapter 7 personal liquidation bankruptcy.



Palmer has a new attitude about people he sees on the street asking for handouts.



"I used to walk past them,'' Palmer says. "Not anymore."



<strong>ENDURING HOMELESSNESS</strong>



The Brixeys never saw it coming.



Since a bank repossessed their Ladera Ranch house in March 2008, the family ? Jaxsen, 9, Mia, 7, Ashtynn, 5, Brielle, 3, Peyten, 2, and Cyrus, 11 months, along with mom Sunny, 33, and dad Jereme, 34 ? remains adrift and uncertain about where they'll eventually end up.



Their financial slide was gradual.



Jereme graduated from UC Irvine's MBA program in 2004. He and his wife were hopeful that the degree would lead to a bump in his salary in his field of wireless consulting.



That didn't happen.



Because of volatility in the business, Jereme was unable to maintain stable work for more than a year.



He eventually began working as a real estate agent ? a common line of work in Ladera, where home prices ballooned until 2006.



The family also dipped into savings from selling their Ladera Ranch home in June 2005.



Sunny admits she had dollar signs in her eyes after the value of the house reached $890,000 in 2005 ? $440,000 more than the purchase price four years earlier.



They reasoned they could capitalize on the hot real estate market by using the cash to pay off Jereme's $70,000 in student loans, lease a second car and pay off medical bills.



At the time, friends in the red-hot mortgage industry suggested that the couple do 100-percent financing for a $700,000 house just a couple blocks away from the one they just sold. They ended up buying that house in 2005.



"We desperately looked for a rental and nothing seemed to work out," Sunny said.



With Sunny nine-months pregnant with Peyten, their fifth child, the Brixeys admit that they got sucked into making quick decisions out of desperation.



"It was almost like we had lit a fire under ourselves," said Sunny, who went into panic mode when they couldn't find a suitably sized home to rent in Ladera Ranch.



"Everything was going so fast and not in our favor," Jereme said.



Sunny said the monthly payments on the $700,000 home they wound up purchasing increased as Jereme's income as a Realtor dried up.



By early 2007, the family of seven ? soon to be eight ? had depleted its savings. Jereme and Sunny began to make hard choices about which bills they could afford to pay.



In September '07, one of their cars was repossessed. The second car was taken a month later.



The slide continued until the Brixey family was homeless.



And yet, the couple sees their financial demise as incidental to the miracle they say they've experienced with the healthy recovery of their baby.



Eleven-month old Cyrus was born last summer with hypoplastic left heart syndrome, considered to be a death sentence by cardiologists. Against all odds, he made it.



The family has bounced from one place to the next, staying for as little as a week and as long as a few months, with friends and relatives.



They currently are staying with a relative in Newport Beach but need to find a new place soon.



Using cars given to them by friends, they take their children to school in Ladera Ranch.



Attitude helps.



"We have hope and joy and we're making a choice to believe that we will come out better than where we started," Sunny said.



<strong>HANGING ON</strong>



Because of an unexpected job loss, Melissa and Bryan Tiffin of Trabuco Canyon haven't been able to make their $2,900 monthly payment on their first mortgage since March 2008.



They've been paying $1,000 a month on their second mortgage since then as they continue to negotiate with their lender to lower the $2,900 payment.



So far, the bank has been willing to try to hammer out an agreement and not send them the Tiffins a notice of default.



"We're sort of in a holding pattern, waiting to see what will happen," says Melissa Tiffin, 37, a former public relations specialist who is looking for a job while raising three young daughters with her husband, Bryan, 40.



Bryan Tiffin makes a solid salary as a construction executive for Broadcom, but not enough to handily cover all the family expenses.



The value of stock options he holds have dried up, erasing a potential source of emergency funds.



He and his wife have been forced to sell off some possessions, such as a motorcycle.



Once a month, the Tiffins get free groceries from South County Outreach, a Lake Forest non-profit that helps individuals and families in crisis.



In August 2005, they bought their home for $545,000. It was a not a subprime loan; they got the loan based on two incomes. They wanted a backyard for their children, Ashley, 8, Krista, 7 and Allison, 3.



They bought their 1,250-square-foot home when the market was near its peak.



Flash forward to March 2009.



The Tiffins' home is valued in the $290,000 to $320,000 range. They now owe more than it's worth.



They can downsize, but desperately want to stay.



But when it comes to home, who doesn't?



Contact the writer: (949) 454-7356 or ghardesty@ocregister.com



.



My note:



I find the "homeless" meme rather annoying. These people are not homeless; they are not living in a box under a bridge somewhere.
 
Back
Top