Did gases from a dump ignite the Santiago fire?

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According to reports, the Santiago fire started at Santiago Canyon and Silverado Canyon. The California Integrated Waste Management Board data base of closed dumps lists Silverado Canyon Disposal Station #9 at Santiago Canyon and Silverado Canyon. Most closed dumps generate highly explosive and highly flammable methane gas. Gases from Silverado Canyon Disposal Station #9 could have ignited the fire, and fueled the flames. Does anyone have information on this dumpsite?

Janice R. England

People Investigating Toxic Sites

toxicsites.org
 
Why do you believe an arsonist was responsible and are not open to another possibility? Gases in dumps migrate underground great distances and fire could come to the surface in many different areas. Are you surprised that there is a dumpsite at Santiago and Silverado Canyons? Are you concerned?

Janice
 
Why? Because OCFA publicly announced less than 12 hours after the fire was started it was arson. Three spots, on two sides of Santiago Canyon road. The FBI and OCSD and OCFA are all jointly investigating this incident as a crime.



All retired landfills are required to have mitigation for the methane issue you describe. There are old dumps all over the state. I am not concerned. I'm not concerned with groundwater intrusion at newer facilities like Kettleman CIty, either.



I am concerned about you. Science means nothing to folks like you with an agenda. IMO, you are just as destructive as the Conservative Groups who deny the existance of Global Warming.
 
Janice,





You might wish to recheck your maps. The closed dump is located between Villa Park and the City of Orange. If you've ever driven by there, you see all the venting popping up like so many prairie dogs. There's also a closed dump on the other side of Irvine Lake off Santiago Canyon, but the fire didn't even burn there.













<a href="http://www.oclandfills.com/landfill_santiago.asp"><em>Integrated Waste Management</em></a>





<em><img width="1" height="10" alt="" src="http://www.oclandfills.com/images/spacer.gif" /></em>





<em>Santiago Canyon Landfill</em>





<em><img width="1" height="10" alt="" src="http://www.oclandfills.com/images/spacer.gif" /></em>





<em>Landfill Closing</em>





<em>The Santiago Canyon Landfill closure construction was completed on 30 November 2004. It is currently not accepting waste. Santiago Canyon is located near the city of Orange, in east Orange County, north of Loma Ridge in the Santa Ana Mountain foothills and adjacent to the <strong>west side of Irvine Lake</strong>.</em>













Thanks for the drama, though. Not.





<em>>>Most closed dumps generate highly explosive and highly flammable methane gas.</em>





And it would be much better for the environment if they could recapture those gases and return the methane to the natural gas system or use it for fueling vehicles. Oh, and on it's own, methane isn't explosive. It needs an ignition. Otherwise, when released it floats into the air and separates, as it is lighter than air. You might wish to revise that statement to "highly flammable" only.





Out of sheer curiosity, what do you propose we do with these closed dumps? You can't really dig them up and put them someplace else.
 
I believe the closed dump that Seraphin is referring to was the Reeve Pit, used by the county, closed in the 1960s, and located near Santiago Blvd. & Santiago Canyon. There is also a listing for the closed Villa Park County Dump at the northwest corner of Villa Park Rd. & Santiago Canyon Rd. The dump I am discussing is listed as Silverado Disposal Station #9. Dumps are highly explosive and highly flammable and there are underground fires that continue in dumps when methane gas hits pockets of air. I don't have the answers about what to do with closed dumps, but I don't think they should be developed without cleanup. I wouldn't send my child to Oakridge Private School, because it is on top of a portion of the closed county dump. Closed dumps are highly flammable and highly explosive and most contain cancer-causing chemicals. Visit our website for information on the dangers of closed dumps. It's very possible that gases in dumps played a big part in the recent fires.



Janice
 
there are underground fires that continue in dumps when methane gas hits pockets of air

Where do underground fires get oxygen from?



most contain cancer-causing chemicals

I think almost everything from orange juice to cell phones cause cancer now.
 
<p>"It's very possible that gases in dumps played a big part in the recent fires." You cant be serious ? </p>

<p>With that in mind we better round up all the cattle. They are a great cause of "Methane Contamination" </p>

<p>Time to take off my aluminum foil hat ! </p>

<p>


</p>
 
<p>Mino, my theory is that everything causes cancer and everything cures cancer thus it evens out.</p>

<p>Cancer is so unpredictable. . .the 1st cause of cancer is smoking and people voluntarily do that. Othe major causes include radon and cosmic rays. People in Denver have a slightly higher risk of cancer because they live in a higher elevation. Genetics is also a factor but the extent is uncertain. Sun exposure is a huge cancer risk but plenty of people still spend hours getting a tan. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.medicinenet.com/cancer_causes/article.htm">www.medicinenet.com/cancer_causes/article.htm</a></p>

<p>Heck, I spent a year of my life exposing myself to low-level radiation and aside from the uncontrollable ticks, I'm fineasldfkje, . </p>

<p> </p>
 
<em>>>The California Integrated Waste Management Board data base of closed dumps lists Silverado Canyon Disposal Station #9 at Santiago Canyon and Silverado Canyon</em>





I can find nothing about this site or the list of closed dumps. Link, please?





<em>>>but I don't think they should be developed without cleanup.</em>





If you use Google Earth on to locate that corner, you will see that there is nothing on that corner except a Christmas tree orchard. And in the last 20 years who in California is developing on dump without cleanup?
 
<p>I write software for the Navy.</p>

<p>No offense Janice, but right now you are reminding me of the users of my software when they try to tell me what is causing a bug. Lack of knowledge, experience or mathematical possibility be damned...they know the answer! It amuses me much like a confused child does, and so I mentally pat them on the head, tell them "I don't think that's the cause, but I'll look into it" and send them on their way. It's almost adorable.</p>

<p>If the professionals who deal with fire every day say it's arson, I'm leaning towards believing them.</p>
 
<p>People like having a conspiracy or unknown entity/thing to blame. I mean there are still people trying to convince others that the U.S. never landed on the moon.</p>

<p>Before I became a blood sucking low-life, I was a "scientist" and I hated people who take a small footnote from a study or theory and blow it up to make it the rule. Most of the time, the simpliest answer is the right one. (i.e. JFK).</p>
 
we are all developing cancer as we speak from sitting in front of the computer. everyone but me that is... i am dictating from my desk which is a safe distance away from my secretary's desk which has a computer. so she is totally screwalsdfkaj[[lkgl
 
I'm really surprised at all the responses of denial, stupid jokes, baloney and venum. I would suggest doing a little research on dumps and the dangers that they hold. Also do some research on fires that were caused by gases in closed dumps. You'll be surprised at what you dig up (pardon the pun). This isn't about conspiracy, it's about getting to the truth. Dumps are not being cleaned up, they're being covered up. As I mentioned before, Oakridge Private School is situated on top of a dump that was not cleaned up. Cerro Villa Park was built on top of a former county dump. Schools and homes continue to be built on top of closed dumps.

Janice

toxicsites.org
 
<p>But you have not provide any evidence or subjective scientific theories/facts to support your claim either. You have simply made conclusory statements about the subject. If you have such a strong belief in this, show me the EVIDENCE!!!! Otherwise you are simply stating your opinion and is no more credible than the NAR who keeping tell people that it is a great time to buy. </p>

<p>If you are asking me to think outside of the box...noted. But I do not want to think so far out that I do not remember what the box looks like.</p>
 
<p><em>Why do you believe an arsonist was responsible and are not open to another possibility?</em> </p>

<p>It's called Occam's Razor. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor</a></p>

<p>Arson is straight forward and simple. It also corresponds with additional caught in the act imitation fire bugs in the last couple days and has a established history of occurence.</p>

<p>And if that doesn't work then my pet theory of HFCS, transfats, too many innoculations causing OCD behavior in pursuit of pleasure and profit.</p>
 
<p>Janice,</p>

<p>What's frustrating to me is that I'm sypathetic to your cause, but you do yourself and your efforts no favors by not doing the slightest amount of easily obtainable research and resort instead to uninformed and inflammatory rhetoric. Ten minutes of reading the relevant LA Times stories (or OC Register or New York Times stories, or the OCFA incident report) would have informed you that investigators found <em>three</em> ignition points placed to maximize the effects of wind conditions. Had this fire been an outlier, I would have considered your point further, but given that there were multiple other fires that broke out the same day, the odds of a random methane explosion are pretty low - not to mention that such explosions are louder and leave different evidence markers from a human set fire.</p>

<p>If you want to be useful and ride your hobby horse at the same time, ask the Fire Authority or the OC Integrated Waste Management Board if any part of the fire touched the Bowerman Landfill and if anyone that was around smoke on Sunday inhaled any combustable parts of that and if they should be concerned.</p>
 
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