Defending your home

[quote author="awgee" date=1240534644][quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1240438813]I suppose the real question is does unrestricted private gun ownership act as a deterrence to gun violence, or does it create the conditions that fosters gun violence.



</blockquote>


Neither. It is mostly a matter of culture and individual character.

We are a violent nation; always have been.

Japanese Americans have no higher rate of gun violence or violence than Japanese do in Japan. They have a non-violent culture.</blockquote>


Knowing that we are a violent culture, does it seem wise to also make us heavily armed? If so, perhaps we should support and celebrate the heavily-armed cultures of our enemies.



Also, some of the arguments about a well-armed citizenry being a deterrent against tyranny are kind of silly. If the US Government with its immense military arsenal wanted to be tyrannical, a private citizen with a handgun is not going to deter a solder in a tank. If armed citizens were a deterrent, the Iraqi underground would have driven us out or Iraq.
 
<blockquote>If the US Government with its immense military arsenal wanted to be tyrannical, a private citizen with a handgun is not going to deter a solder in a tank. If armed citizens were a deterrent, the Iraqi underground would have driven us out or Iraq. </blockquote>No, you keep plinking the soldiers that aren't in tanks for months/years until the home country of the invading force loses its appetite for dead bodies being shipped home. Soviets in Afghanistan, US in Vietnam, France in Vietnam, soon to be US in Iraq. It's called asymmetric warfare and if what you say were entirely correct, it'd be a non-issue. Instead it's a very real issue.
 
[quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1240536170][quote author="awgee" date=1240534644][quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1240438813]I suppose the real question is does unrestricted private gun ownership act as a deterrence to gun violence, or does it create the conditions that fosters gun violence.



</blockquote>


Neither. It is mostly a matter of culture and individual character.

We are a violent nation; always have been.

Japanese Americans have no higher rate of gun violence or violence than Japanese do in Japan. They have a non-violent culture.</blockquote>


Knowing that we are a violent culture, does it seem wise to also make us heavily armed? If so, perhaps we should support and celebrate the heavily-armed cultures of our enemies.



Also, some of the arguments about a well-armed citizenry being a deterrent against tyranny are kind of silly. If the US Government with its immense military arsenal wanted to be tyrannical, a private citizen with a handgun is not going to deter a solder in a tank. If armed citizens were a deterrent, the Iraqi underground would have driven us out or Iraq.</blockquote>


Absolutely the opposite. It is not one private citizen with a handgun. The American citizenry is armed to the teeth, and the US military would not do well to war against an armed indigenous guerilla force. Think Vietnam, only ten times worse.
 
[quote author="awgee" date=1240539266][quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1240536170][quote author="awgee" date=1240534644][quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1240438813]I suppose the real question is does unrestricted private gun ownership act as a deterrence to gun violence, or does it create the conditions that fosters gun violence.



</blockquote>


Neither. It is mostly a matter of culture and individual character.

We are a violent nation; always have been.

Japanese Americans have no higher rate of gun violence or violence than Japanese do in Japan. They have a non-violent culture.</blockquote>


Knowing that we are a violent culture, does it seem wise to also make us heavily armed? If so, perhaps we should support and celebrate the heavily-armed cultures of our enemies.



Also, some of the arguments about a well-armed citizenry being a deterrent against tyranny are kind of silly. If the US Government with its immense military arsenal wanted to be tyrannical, a private citizen with a handgun is not going to deter a solder in a tank. If armed citizens were a deterrent, the Iraqi underground would have driven us out or Iraq.</blockquote>


Absolutely the opposite. It is not one private citizen with a handgun. The American citizenry is armed to the teeth, and the US military would not do well to war against an armed indigenous guerilla force. Think Vietnam, only ten times worse.</blockquote>


It would be beyond the civil war.

Remember it would be Americans on Americans again.

We will keep our weapons and maintain our rights. Federal Law prevents

the military from acting against the people. The Posse Comitatus Act.



<blockquote>The statute generally prohibits federal military personnel and units of the National Guard under federal authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within the United States, except where expressly authorized by the Constitution or Congress.</blockquote>


Right now seems like the Santa Ana Police are a little trigger happy though.

Time for the city to get the checkbook out for another bad traffic stop. Oops.

Bad form to shoot fleeing suspects in the head. Especially when all

the witnesses say it wasnt justified and there is no weapon.

But its just a gang member so it will just go away.
 
<em>Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.</em>





Benjamin Franklin
 
[quote author="High Gravity" date=1240534412][quote author="ipoplaya" date=1240532752][I was hunting with friends with my Sheridan .20 in 1st grade</blockquote>


You must have been one buff first grader if your could pump a Sheridan. Even as an adult, I have to strain to pump my Silver Streak beyond 5 pumps.</blockquote>


Had to put the butt of the rifle down on the ground and turn it around to face me. No way it could be pumped in hand. I think we (bunch of my buddies had them) could only get 2-3 pumps into it. Plenty enough to kill a squirrel or quail at close range though if you got a good head shot...
 
High Gravity/Ipo



Nice to see some gun friendly people on IHB. It was a pain to shoot while living in California. I used to go to On Target near Avery but didn't shoot the last 4 or 5 years I lived there because it was such a pain to lock and unlock the guns and stay legal during transportation.



High Gravity



That sounds like the start of nice collection. My Hi-power is a Belgum model.



Agree on the PPK as it is a handful to fire with a big recoil for a small gun. 9MM to .40 is better to carry here.



I believe that most of my semi autos are now illegal in CA due to not having the mag locking devices which prevent fireing without the mag in the weapon. Also most of my mags are over the Ca capacity.



My experience has mostly been with pistols but last year I bought an M4 Carbine. I have only fired it twice but need to get used to a long gun. It is a Rock River Arms like the ones they make for DEA.



How is the ammo situation in OC? It is really hard to find in Az since people are stocking and hoarding it in belief that the Obama admin will restrict ammo or tax it to unaffordable levels.





Enjoy
 
[quote author="xsocal land merchant" date=1240554383]



How is the ammo situation in OC? It is really hard to find in Az since people are stocking and hoarding it in belief that the Obama admin will restrict ammo or tax it to unaffordable levels.





Enjoy</blockquote>


The ammo situtation is not pleasant, but Wally World et al. are finding it difficult to stock up. It seems whenever they get any ammo in within a few days it is exhausted. The only ammo available at this point is for shotguns.



I still mostly order my stuff bulk direct from vendors in bulk. The big ammo stuff (.375H&H, .45-70, .510DTC, .416 Barrett, .30-06 are available but expensive - the Russian rounds are dirt cheap, so I bought a few thousand last ammo run....).



I think CA is more in danger than AZ, they are taxing anything that moves that this point...



good luck

-bix
 
Bix



There are more people in Ca but I would think per capita gun ownership is lower plus I have seen a guy buy $3,200 worth of .223 at one time over the counter at a gun store near me. I check at Wally World and pick up what I can when I can.



Ca will tax you all to death-then tax what is left!



Enjoy!
 
[quote author="xsocal land merchant" date=1240554383]

My experience has mostly been with pistols but last year I bought an M4 Carbine. I have only fired it twice but need to get used to a long gun. It is a Rock River Arms like the ones they make for DEA.



How is the ammo situation in OC? It is really hard to find in Az since people are stocking and hoarding it in belief that the Obama admin will restrict ammo or tax it to unaffordable levels.

</blockquote>


I built an a carbine in M4 configuration a few years ago using a pre-ban lower. It has iron sights and thin barrel, so it handles like a baton. While I do like heavy match barrels and big scopes, I think they belong on big rifles, not on a carbine.



Due to overstocking during the Clinton administration, I have not had to buy ammo in a long time so I don't know what the current situation is. When I was a kid, I used to buy all my bullets at Sierra Bullets' original factory in Santa Fe Springs. They'd give me a tour of the plant (lots of little old ladies sitting along a conveyer belt examining bullets, bullets being polished in cement mixers, etc.), and after the tour, they'd give me paper bags that I could fill with as many "seconds" as I wanted for a buck a bag. It was like a thousand .30 cal 163 gr HPBT match for $2, or two thousand .22 cal bullet jackets for $1. The seconds performed as good as any green box product in a store.



Alas, when I was in college, Sierra shut its venerable factory and moved to new digs in Missouri. At one of my last visits, they told me that it was too expensive to do business in Calfornia, expecially wages, so they were reluctantly leaving. Since then, I have to buy the green box stuff in stores like everyone else.



Sierra's factory was next to the Santa Fe Springs mall and their underground test range ran under the mall parking lot. I'll bet that underground range is still there and the shoppers have no idea what is under their cars.
 
[quote author="effenheimer" date=1240306413]We therefore conclude that the right to keep and bear arms is ?deeply rooted in this Nation?s history and tradition.? Colonial revolutionaries, the Founders, and a host of commentators and lawmakers living during the first one hundred years of the Republic all insisted on the fundamental nature of the right. It has long been regarded as the ?true palladium of liberty.? Colonists relied on it to assert and to win their independence, and the victorious Union sought to prevent a recalcitrant South from abridging it less than a century later. The crucial role this deeply rooted right has played in our birth and history compels us to recognize that it is indeed fundamental, that it is necessary to the Anglo-American conception of ordered liberty that we have inherited. <strong> We are therefore persuaded that the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment incorporates the Second Amendment and applies it against the states and local governments.</strong>



Go <a href="http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2009/04/20/yes-california-there-is-an-individual-right-to-keep-and-bear-arms/">9th</a>!</blockquote>


Sorry, I had a hard time reading the italicized post... My eyes are slanted as is.
 
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