Deception at Core of Obama Plans

OK lets look at the cost of drugs. I know. You enjoy all those hip Viagra commercials.

The Broadcasters would be screwed without all that revenue. But lets face it. We are getting raped on the cost. Ever go down to Mexico and check the prices ? I am on a Blood Pressure Med.

I can get the same EXACT drug in the SAME factory sealed package for about 1/3 the price in Rosarito or TJ.



Why is that ? I know. We need to pay for those lobbyists, advertising, Etc.

So they lie and tell you its not the same medication. Different testing and quality. Bullzhit.



Where is that free market when it comes to prescription drugs ?

Where is NAFTA when it really counts and it helps us ?



Keep listening to your propaganda. They spend enough money to convince you

to pay for your inflated drugs and pay inflated insurance premiums.

Keep believing. It must be true. Why would they lie to us ?
 
[quote author="bltserv" date=1236753509]OK lets look at the cost of drugs. I know. You enjoy all those hip Viagra commercials.

The Broadcasters would be screwed without all that revenue. But lets face it. We are getting raped on the cost. Ever go down to Mexico and check the prices ? I am on a Blood Pressure Med.

I can get the same EXACT drug in the SAME factory sealed package for about 1/3 the price in Rosarito or TJ.



Why is that ? I know. We need to pay for those lobbyists, advertising, Etc.

So they lie and tell you its not the same medication. Different testing and quality. Bullzhit.



Where is that free market when it comes to prescription drugs ?

Where is NAFTA when it really counts and it helps us ?



Keep listening to your propaganda. They spend enough money to convince you

to pay for your inflated drugs and pay inflated insurance premiums.

Keep believing. It must be true. Why would they lie to us ?</blockquote>


So because prescription drug costs are high in the US we should provide universal health care? When I get a prescription filled I usually get the generic. Every person in the country has that option.



If the govermnet told Merck they could no longer sell their new drugs for a profit what incentive do they have to produce them? These are for profit companies that are trying to maximize profits.



Just because they make a drug that helps a person live better or longer doesn't mean they shouldn't make money.



So you are saying that if we had a universal health care system that would force these drug companies to sell their drugs for less? What incentive would they have to continue R&D in the future?
 
skek, trrenter, you are missing the larger point: healthcare is a right.



Merck, Genentech, Pfizer, Eli Lilly, etc., all paid vast amount of money earned from previously patented drugs in order to fund the research and development of life saving drugs, but the government must be able to set the price on those drugs in order to ensure that citizens aren't denied their right to life. Other governments do this, leaving this country to be the one to pay enough for drugs to ensure further research and further development, subsidizing cheaper drugs for Canada, Mexico, the EU, and Japan... until the patent runs out.



With healthcare as a right, you are entitled to the fruits of other people's labor because deprivation of those fruits is tantamount to murder. If the providers of the fruits refuse to produce, they must be compelled against their will in order to ensure the fundamental right of healthcare is provided to all in need or want. Denial of the existence of this right is heresy of the highest order, and should be held in the same contemp currently reserved for those critical of the selling of those modern day <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indulgence#History_of_indulgences">Indulgences</a>... carbon credits/offsets.
 
Your missing the point guys. The same Drug. Made by Pfizer costs me $ 20.00 on my CoPay.

The Insurance Company is billed for $ 135.00. I can get the same drug MADE BY Pfizer

in the same package in Mexico. For $ 35.00. No Patent Issues. No counterfitting.

Its the same Drug made by the same company in the same package with Pfizer logo and seals. But the Cost in the United States is 3 times higher. Why ?
 
[quote author="bltserv" date=1236776927]Your missing the point guys. The same Drug. Made by Pfizer costs me $ 20.00 on my CoPay.

The Insurance Company is billed for $ 135.00. I can get the same drug MADE BY Pfizer

in the same package in Mexico. For $ 35.00. No Patent Issues. No counterfitting.

Its the same Drug made by the same company in the same package with Pfizer logo and seals. But the Cost in the United States is 3 times higher. Why ?</blockquote>
Because you aren't the one paying for it. Your employer is shelling out that cash indirectly by providing insurance coverage as part of your compensation package. You may or may not be paying a monthly amount for better than the basic plan, but the money the drug company gets is being passed from your employer to the drug company via your health care manager/provider and the pharmacy that dispenses it, both of who take a nice bite out of the total billed cost. You pay $20 as a nominal amount to prevent you from flooding your insurance company with claims for "better aspirin" and "special Vitamin C" pills that would proliferate without some sort of check on coverage. The drug company jacks up the price because they know your employer and/or health provider will pay it AND because they have to recoup the costs of R&D somewhere or else they will end up like Pfizer, staring at the expiration of patents that will allow generi versions of their only income sources, with no new drugs coming onto the market. So you can get cheaper scrip fills in Mexico, a country with no qualms about allowing generics prior to expiration of patents; so companies sell them at slightly below what it would cost to make illegal knockoffs. So you can get cheaper scrip fills in Canada, a country that sets the price it will pay by committee. So both of these countries have obscene exchange rates with the US Dollar. But you aren't looking at any of that... all you see is CHEAPER DRUGS OMG WTF BBQ we have to have Universal Health Care NOW!



You know what... you aren't worth reading anymore. You ignore facts, logical points, and even entire arguments and prance out the latest ad hominem attack. You are the IHB equivalent of the <a href="http://weeklyworldnews.com/">Weekly World News</a>. Welcome to my ignore list.
 
[quote author="bltserv" date=1236776927]Your missing the point guys. The same Drug. Made by Pfizer costs me $ 20.00 on my CoPay.

The Insurance Company is billed for $ 135.00. I can get the same drug MADE BY Pfizer

in the same package in Mexico. For $ 35.00. No Patent Issues. No counterfitting.

Its the same Drug made by the same company in the same package with Pfizer logo and seals. But the Cost in the United States is 3 times higher. Why ?</blockquote>


You keep bouncing around.



When I point to the fact that Universal healtcare is really taking a beating in countries that have universal health care you first try to dismiss the source. Then ignore the fact I purposely used an article out of the NY Times to help make my point. You don't even answer any of those concerns.



You throw out infant mortality rate as a reason for Universal health care. When I tell you that countries purposely manipulate the numbers to have a lower infant mortality rate you ignore that fact.



Then you jump to Prescription Drugs as a reason for universal health care. What you are saying is that Universal Healtcare would put a ceiling on what drug companies can charge. When has the government paid below market value for anything?



So far you have decided infant mortality rate was a weak argument. You have decided that arguing that it works in other countries is a weak agrument. So now we have prescription drugs.



So instead of burdening the American people with a system that has not worked any where else in the world why don't we just set a ceiling on what the drug companies can charge. We don't need universal healtcare to set a ceiling.



Tell all the drug companies they can only sell their drugs for what they sell for in Mexico and Canada. If that is the whole reason for universal health care why not just impose it now and forget about universal healtcare which so far isn't really working any where else.
 
[quote author="Oscar" date=1236782437][quote author="bltserv" date=1236776927]Your missing the point guys. The same Drug. Made by Pfizer costs me $ 20.00 on my CoPay.

The Insurance Company is billed for $ 135.00. I can get the same drug MADE BY Pfizer

in the same package in Mexico. For $ 35.00. No Patent Issues. No counterfitting.

Its the same Drug made by the same company in the same package with Pfizer logo and seals. But the Cost in the United States is 3 times higher. Why ?</blockquote>
Because you aren't the one paying for it. Your employer is shelling out that cash indirectly by providing insurance coverage as part of your compensation package. You may or may not be paying a monthly amount for better than the basic plan, but the money the drug company gets is being passed from your employer to the drug company via your health care manager/provider and the pharmacy that dispenses it, both of who take a nice bite out of the total billed cost. You pay $20 as a nominal amount to prevent you from flooding your insurance company with claims for "better aspirin" and "special Vitamin C" pills that would proliferate without some sort of check on coverage. The drug company jacks up the price because they know your employer and/or health provider will pay it AND because they have to recoup the costs of R&D somewhere or else they will end up like Pfizer, staring at the expiration of patents that will allow generi versions of their only income sources, with no new drugs coming onto the market. So you can get cheaper scrip fills in Mexico, a country with no qualms about allowing generics prior to expiration of patents; so companies sell them at slightly below what it would cost to make illegal knockoffs. So you can get cheaper scrip fills in Canada, a country that sets the price it will pay by committee. So both of these countries have obscene exchange rates with the US Dollar. But you aren't looking at any of that... all you see is CHEAPER DRUGS OMG WTF BBQ we have to have Universal Health Care NOW!



You know what... you aren't worth reading anymore. You ignore facts, logical points, and even entire arguments and prance out the latest ad hominem attack. You are the IHB equivalent of the <a href="http://weeklyworldnews.com/">Weekly World News</a>. Welcome to my ignore list.

</blockquote>


So thats how a free market operates ? You can buy something for 3 times as much and thats a good thing. And FYI. I am the employer. I pay the monthly premiums for my group. And again your saying generics and patents because those are the buzzwords you have been programed to use by the healtcare propaganda you read. ITS THE SAME NAME BRAND IN THE SAME PACKAGE IN DATE CODE. But those are facts that you cant understand. Ignore away. Keeping your head in the sand will set you free !!!!
 
[quote author="trrenter" date=1236808208][quote author="bltserv" date=1236776927]Your missing the point guys. The same Drug. Made by Pfizer costs me $ 20.00 on my CoPay.

The Insurance Company is billed for $ 135.00. I can get the same drug MADE BY Pfizer

in the same package in Mexico. For $ 35.00. No Patent Issues. No counterfitting.

Its the same Drug made by the same company in the same package with Pfizer logo and seals. But the Cost in the United States is 3 times higher. Why ?</blockquote>


You keep bouncing around.



When I point to the fact that Universal healtcare is really taking a beating in countries that have universal health care you first try to dismiss the source. Then ignore the fact I purposely used an article out of the NY Times to help make my point. You don't even answer any of those concerns.



You throw out infant mortality rate as a reason for Universal health care. When I tell you that countries purposely manipulate the numbers to have a lower infant mortality rate you ignore that fact.



Then you jump to Prescription Drugs as a reason for universal health care. What you are saying is that Universal Healtcare would put a ceiling on what drug companies can charge. When has the government paid below market value for anything?



So far you have decided infant mortality rate was a weak argument. You have decided that arguing that it works in other countries is a weak agrument. So now we have prescription drugs.



So instead of burdening the American people with a system that has not worked any where else in the world why don't we just set a ceiling on what the drug companies can charge. We don't need universal healtcare to set a ceiling.



Tell all the drug companies they can only sell their drugs for what they sell for in Mexico and Canada. If that is the whole reason for universal health care why not just impose it now and forget about universal healtcare which so far isn't really working any where else.</blockquote>


Then why is the entire world. Less Africa, China, North Korea, and a few other podunk places on this planet. Practicing Universal Healthcare ? It seems to me that providing preventitive

medicine for all would benifit the cost as opposed to helping people for free only once they hit the emergency room and are near death. To many layers in this system. Its doomed to failure. My son`s premium at age 23 cost me more than he pays for his car for complete coverage. Mine are over $ 500.00 a month. Too many companies are getting buried by this ever increasing premium. Whe do we say enough is enough ? When nobody can pay the premiums any longer ?
 
[quote author="bltserv" date=1236808988][quote author="trrenter" date=1236808208][quote author="bltserv" date=1236776927]Your missing the point guys. The same Drug. Made by Pfizer costs me $ 20.00 on my CoPay.

The Insurance Company is billed for $ 135.00. I can get the same drug MADE BY Pfizer

in the same package in Mexico. For $ 35.00. No Patent Issues. No counterfitting.

Its the same Drug made by the same company in the same package with Pfizer logo and seals. But the Cost in the United States is 3 times higher. Why ?</blockquote>


You keep bouncing around.



When I point to the fact that Universal healtcare is really taking a beating in countries that have universal health care you first try to dismiss the source. Then ignore the fact I purposely used an article out of the NY Times to help make my point. You don't even answer any of those concerns.



You throw out infant mortality rate as a reason for Universal health care. When I tell you that countries purposely manipulate the numbers to have a lower infant mortality rate you ignore that fact.



Then you jump to Prescription Drugs as a reason for universal health care. What you are saying is that Universal Healtcare would put a ceiling on what drug companies can charge. When has the government paid below market value for anything?



So far you have decided infant mortality rate was a weak argument. You have decided that arguing that it works in other countries is a weak agrument. So now we have prescription drugs.



So instead of burdening the American people with a system that has not worked any where else in the world why don't we just set a ceiling on what the drug companies can charge. We don't need universal healtcare to set a ceiling.



Tell all the drug companies they can only sell their drugs for what they sell for in Mexico and Canada. If that is the whole reason for universal health care why not just impose it now and forget about universal healtcare which so far isn't really working any where else.</blockquote>


Then why is the entire world. Less Africa, China, North Korea, and a few other podunk places on this planet. Practicing Universal Healthcare ? It seems to me that providing preventitive

medicine for all would benifit the cost as opposed to helping people for free only once they hit the emergency room and are near death. To many layers in this system. Its doomed to failure. My son`s premium at age 23 cost me more than he pays for his car for complete coverage. Mine are over $ 500.00 a month. Too many companies are getting buried by this ever increasing premium. Whe do we say enough is enough ? When nobody can pay the premiums any longer ?</blockquote>


I have never been a follower of what the rest of the world was doing.



At one point a good part of the world was moving toward Communism.



I am not against Universal Health care per se I am against moving forward until we are sure all of our bases are covered. I would like to see a system that is currently working BETTER then what we have here now. Not marginally better but much better.



So far you have pointed to countries that have universal heatlh care. Please pick one that truly works as advertised and show me and explain to me how supplanting our current system with that one will work.



Not one that is cheaper for you but one that is better for everyone. You do understand the premiums you pay now will just be converted into taxes later.



Added note What part of our Federal Goverment will run the Universal Healtcare in the US?
 
[quote author="skek" date=1236815060]Folks, if you haven't figured it out by now, blt would like the policy of the US federal government to be set based on what benefits him the most personally. Logic and reason have nothing to do with it. His family is in the steel industry, so he wants steel subsidies and protectionism. he claims this is a national security issue. His family is not in the food industry, so he is fine with allowing the unfettered importation of food from third world countries, even if it destroys the local agriculture industry and poisons our children.



He pays employer health care premiums, so he wants the government to enact universal health care so that the top 5% taxpayers (which he is not) will subsidize his company and his employees. He takes high blood pressure medicine that is available cheaply in Mexico, so he would like the government to confiscate the patent rights of the pharmeceutical companies who paid billions in research trials, approvals, failed R&D, liability insurance and marketing costs so that he doesn't have to drive to TJ to buy his Viagra, er, blood pressure meds.



Welcome to the United States of bltserv. Sadly, this type of "me-first" thinking is the secret to the success of the Democrat party. Promise everything to 95% of the people, and villanize the 5% who will have to pay for it.</blockquote>


Let's buy an island, and start our own country! You can be President of Skekland and I will be the Chairman of the FED....do we even need a FED actually? Probably not. Let's put one in anyway, I need to get paid.
 
[quote author="skek" date=1236815060]Folks, if you haven't figured it out by now, blt would like the policy of the US federal government to be set based on what benefits him the most personally. Logic and reason have nothing to do with it. His family is in the steel industry, so he wants steel subsidies and protectionism. he claims this is a national security issue. His family is not in the food industry, so he is fine with allowing the unfettered importation of food from third world countries, even if it destroys the local agriculture industry and poisons our children.



He pays employer health care premiums, so he wants the government to enact universal health care so that the top 5% taxpayers (which he is not) will subsidize his company and his employees. He takes high blood pressure medicine that is available cheaply in Mexico, so he would like the government to confiscate the patent rights of the pharmeceutical companies who paid billions in research trials, approvals, failed R&D, liability insurance and marketing costs so that he doesn't have to drive to TJ to buy his Viagra, er, blood pressure meds.



Welcome to the United States of bltserv. Sadly, this type of "me-first" thinking is the secret to the success of the Democrat party. Promise everything to 95% of the people, and villanize the 5% who will have to pay for it.</blockquote>


Thanks Skek for that fine contribution. Sure. Whats in it for me ! As a small business man

that creates wealth. I should get something back for all I contribute.

So I guess you cant call me a socialist. Just another capitalist in it for myself.



So what about that free trade when it comes to prescription drugs?

You just dont get the fact that the government, lobbyists, and pharma are playing the American People. THE SAME DRUGS. SAME MANUFACTURER. SAME PACKAGE. Are allowed to have the price munipulated in this country. Its like paying 3 times as much for a bottle of California Wine in California. But drive to Mexico. Same Bottle is 1/3 the price. The system is broken.

The Insurance Comapnies are scaming us along with big Phama. The Fix is in.



The broken system is ripe for a change. Plus I want to see my LAZY Azz Insurance agent need to get a real job for the first time in his life. Talk about scum of the earth.

Insurance Agents.
 
[quote author="BlackVault CM" date=1236819604][quote author="skek" date=1236815060]Folks, if you haven't figured it out by now, blt would like the policy of the US federal government to be set based on what benefits him the most personally. Logic and reason have nothing to do with it. His family is in the steel industry, so he wants steel subsidies and protectionism. he claims this is a national security issue. His family is not in the food industry, so he is fine with allowing the unfettered importation of food from third world countries, even if it destroys the local agriculture industry and poisons our children.



He pays employer health care premiums, so he wants the government to enact universal health care so that the top 5% taxpayers (which he is not) will subsidize his company and his employees. He takes high blood pressure medicine that is available cheaply in Mexico, so he would like the government to confiscate the patent rights of the pharmeceutical companies who paid billions in research trials, approvals, failed R&D, liability insurance and marketing costs so that he doesn't have to drive to TJ to buy his Viagra, er, blood pressure meds.



Welcome to the United States of bltserv. Sadly, this type of "me-first" thinking is the secret to the success of the Democrat party. Promise everything to 95% of the people, and villanize the 5% who will have to pay for it.</blockquote>


Let's buy an island, and start our own country! You can be President of Skekland and I will be the Chairman of the FED....do we even need a FED actually? Probably not. Let's put one in anyway, I need to get paid.</blockquote>


I'd be willing to pay to have free markets instead of a regulated economy.
 
[quote author="skek" date=1236922629]I call 'em as I see 'em, blt. No fewer than three people have demonstrated how your arguments are naive and misguided, but keep on plowing ahead with your conspiracy theories. Whatever works for you.</blockquote>


Not only have there been "no fewer than three", but a lot more have. And this isn't the only forum where he has accused someone of racism without reason.
 
[quote author="skek" date=1236922629]I call 'em as I see 'em, blt. No fewer than three people have demonstrated how your arguments are naive and misguided, but keep on plowing ahead with your conspiracy theories. Whatever works for you.</blockquote>


Skek.



Keep those conservative blinders on my friend. As always if we dont agree

with your mantra we are "naive and misguided".



At least your not starting threads with articles written by idiots to

insight meaningfull discussion on the IHB. Congratulations.



Less could be said for your "Gang of Three" and their daily troll.



^^^^^^^^ There is Numero Uno. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
Skek

You jumped into this thread.

Whats your purpose ? Discussion or attack ?

You back the right wing groupies that lost the election ?

You back those that post their propganda and troll for a response on a housing board

with crap thats not worth a response.



Can you honestly admit that the garbage thats been posted here to start threads is

of any quality ? Or are you like most conservatives. Attack the liberal. Call him names.



Are you one of those trolls too? I am soooo disapointed. Try not to do what your minions

seem to do and turn a discussion into a personal attack.



The Ron Reagan I know is a great guy. Yours was a confused old man.





<a href="http://airamerica.com/ronreagan">http://airamerica.com/ronreagan</a>
 
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