contigencies

[quote author="WishUponAStar" date=1250588552]what would you do if the seller wants to remove a contingency (appraisal)? Under what conditions would you agree to it? thanks.</blockquote>


When the price is 50% off current market
 
[quote author="WishUponAStar" date=1250588552]what would you do if the seller wants to remove a contingency (appraisal)? Under what conditions would you agree to it? thanks.</blockquote>
When the appraisal comes in at the sales price or $100 below it so tell them to hold their horses. I got a counter back on an offer I submitted this weekend and the sellers countered wanting my buyers to remove ALL CONTINGENCIES, including loan and appraisal, 10 days after the offer was accepted...YEAH RIGHT, keep dreaming!
 
[quote author="WishUponAStar" date=1250588552]what would you do if the seller wants to remove a contingency (appraisal)? Under what conditions would you agree to it? thanks.</blockquote>


What recommendation did your agent make?
 
thanks for the replies. he did not seem too concerned. He feels the appraisal will not be too far from the asking price. Isn't it a strange request from the seller though? I personally have not seen this before.
 
[quote author="WishUponAStar" date=1250596055]thanks for the replies. he did not seem too concerned. He <strong>feels</strong> the appraisal will not be too far from the asking price. Isn't it a strange request from the seller though? I personally have not seen this before.</blockquote>


You're fawked if that appraisal doesn't come in at the price. Is your agent going to cover the difference if it doesn't? Did you not read the thread about appraisals in the general mortgage section? You are playing Russian Roulette when you waive the appraisal, and in this market the rules have changed... now you only take one bullet out and leave the rest.



Your agent is a moron for saying that BTW.
 
[quote author="WishUponAStar" date=1250596055]thanks for the replies. he did not seem too concerned. He feels the appraisal will not be too far from the asking price. Isn't it a strange request from the seller though? I personally have not seen this before.</blockquote>
In today's market, you never know. Your agent should be flogged for even suggesting that you sign off on the appraisal contingency without seeing the appraised value AND ensuring that the lender's review process has accepted the appraisal and the appraised value. Next thing you know your agent will tell you not to worry about the loan contingency. Sellers want buyers to lift all contingencies as soon as possible because when you do that it will put your escrow deposit at risk if you are not able to close the transaction. Sounds like your agent is a bit too anxious, at the expense of putting your escrow deposit at risk, on getting the deal closed and getting paid.
 
I appreciate the honest feedback. I'll take a look at that thread now. I was mostly reading in here and the OC forum. The agent said this based on other properties listed in the area, but it does not sit well with me (although I love the house). What do you think about countering the offer with a "bottom" cap. For instance, if appraisal does not fall below $x, then we can remove the contigency. And doing an independent quick appraisal before the counter offer is submitted. Am I fawking myself? I'm new to the Irvine market, so I don't know if this is a game or what. thanks.
 
[quote author="WishUponAStar" date=1250597786]I appreciate the honest feedback. I'll take a look at that thread now. I was mostly reading in here and the OC forum. The agent said this based on other properties listed in the area, but it does not sit well with me (although I love the house). What do you think about countering the offer with a "bottom" cap. For instance, if appraisal does not fall below $x, then we can remove the contigency. And doing an independent quick appraisal before the counter offer is submitted. Am I fawking myself? I'm new to the Irvine market, so I don't know if this is a game or what. thanks.</blockquote>
You are making things more complicated than they need to be. Do not lift the appraisal contingency until you see the appraisal and appraised value and know the bank as accepted it. If the sellers and agent think that the appraised value shouldn't be a problem, then it shouldn't been an issue in not lifting the appraisal contingency. This is standard practice so please do not let any agent try to scare you into compromising. Generally speaking, the Contingency Removal Form (removing all of the contingencies) is signed AFTER all contingencies are met (the final loan approval is generally the last contingency to be met). If your agent is pushing you to do things that make you uncomfortable, it may be time to find yourself another agent because your interests may not be getting represented properly.
 
thanks!!...will take your advice. I had slightly fawked (like that word) myself because when I originally submitted my offer, I bid a little higher than the asking price (as recommended by my agent, since there were multiple offers and he felt this would help). Then they countered with a price slightly lower than the original asking price if I remove the appraisal contingency. I'll just leave the contigency in there and see what happens.....
 
[quote author="WishUponAStar" date=1250602280]thanks!!...will take your advice. I had slightly fawked (like that word) myself because when I originally submitted my offer, I bid a little higher than the asking price (as recommended by my agent, since there were multiple offers and he felt this would help). Then they countered with a price slightly lower than the original asking price if I remove the appraisal contingency. I'll just leave the contigency in there and see what happens.....</blockquote>
No problem...keep us posted and good luck.
 
First, don't take my frustration personally. It has nothing to do with you, but with your loser agent and the slimy seller/selling agent.



Second, you need to find out the listing history of this house ASAP. Don't ask your agent, because he is a lying douchebag, and you need an unbiased 3rd party to tell you the truth. I'm willing to bet this place went into escrow and fell out at least once.



[quote author="WishUponAStar" date=1250602280]thanks!!...will take your advice. I had slightly fawked (like that word) myself because when I originally submitted my offer, I bid a little <strong>higher</strong> than the asking price (<strong>as recommended by my [strike]agent[/strike] douchebag</strong>, since there were multiple offers and he felt this would help get my offer accepted <strong>to close the deal so he could collect a commission and a bigger one at that with the higher price</strong>).</blockquote>


Only bid what you are willing to pay. The seller can always come back higher, and what if they did? You are a buyer, you are in control, and you need to let them know this. Sure your sleazy agent tells you to bid higher... higher likelihood the deal will get done, and the higher likelihood he will get his commission check to make his debt consolidation payment for the month.



<blockquote><strong>Then they countered with a price slightly lower than the original asking price if I remove the appraisal contingency</strong>. I'll just leave the contigency in there and see what happens.....</blockquote>


Of course they did... Either they know the comps don't support the value and it will never appraise for that price, or they have already been in escrow and it fell out because the appraisal never came in at the price needed. Hell... it may have been in escrow more than once because of this, and why you need to find an unbiased 3rd party to get you that info.



You should counter with the appraisal contingency still there, and add in a contingency that if it doesn't appraise for that value the seller agrees to lower it to the appraised value, pay all closing costs and points (jack up the discount points on the loan to 2%-3% to get a nice rate), give you a $5k credit for misc. repairs, and have the selling agent credit you half their commission for knowingly adding a contingency that they know will only fawk you.



P.S. Fire your agent if this deal falls through. He is a slimy douchebag. IrvineRealtor and even t-man (who didn't catch this slight of hand by the sleazy selling and buying agents) have more ethics in their pinky fingernail than these two corrupt RealTurds.
 
[quote author="graphrix" date=1250613444]First, don't take my frustration personally. It has nothing to do with you, but with your loser agent and the slimy seller/selling agent.



Second, you need to find out the listing history of this house ASAP. Don't ask your agent, because he is a lying douchebag, and you need an unbiased 3rd party to tell you the truth. I'm willing to bet this place went into escrow and fell out at least once.



[quote author="WishUponAStar" date=1250602280]thanks!!...will take your advice. I had slightly fawked (like that word) myself because when I originally submitted my offer, I bid a little <strong>higher</strong> than the asking price (<strong>as recommended by my [strike]agent[/strike] douchebag</strong>, since there were multiple offers and he felt this would help get my offer accepted <strong>to close the deal so he could collect a commission and a bigger one at that with the higher price</strong>).</blockquote>


Only bid what you are willing to pay. The seller can always come back higher, and what if they did? You are a buyer, you are in control, and you need to let them know this. Sure your sleazy agent tells you to bid higher... higher likelihood the deal will get done, and the higher likelihood he will get his commission check to make his debt consolidation payment for the month.



<blockquote><strong>Then they countered with a price slightly lower than the original asking price if I remove the appraisal contingency</strong>. I'll just leave the contigency in there and see what happens.....</blockquote>


Of course they did... Either they know the comps don't support the value and it will never appraise for that price, or they have already been in escrow and it fell out because the appraisal never came in at the price needed. Hell... it may have been in escrow more than once because of this, and why you need to find an unbiased 3rd party to get you that info.

<strong>

You should counter with the appraisal contingency still there, and add in a contingency that if it doesn't appraise for that value the seller agrees to lower it to the appraised value, pay all closing costs and points (jack up the discount points on the loan to 2%-3% to get a nice rate), give you a $5k credit for misc. repairs, and have the selling agent credit you half their commission for knowingly adding a contingency that they know will only fawk you. </strong>



P.S. Fire your agent if this deal falls through. He is a slimy douchebag. IrvineRealtor and even t-man (who didn't catch this slight of hand by the sleazy selling and buying agents) have more ethics in their pinky fingernail than these two corrupt RealTurds.</blockquote>
Haha...I like that, next time I get some stupid counter offer from a list agent/seller I'll suggest my buyers consider countering back with something similar to your suggestion. The look on the listing agent/sellers faces after seeing that counter would be priceless.



I still can't believe a listing agent/sellers had the balls to counter an offer one of my buyers had me submit with "buyers to lift all contingencies within 10 days of acceptance, including appraisal and loan contingency." I laughed when I read it.
 
hehe....you guys are awesome. thanks for lifting my spirits. So I called the agent and told him we do not believe it is a good idea to remove this contingency, and it is too risky to waive. He responded quickly and without questioning further: "OK no problem, if that is your decision. I want you to be comfortable. The seller called earlier and said the other buyers are anxious, so he may move on to them." I said fine. He also mentioned there is a buyer that agreed to remove the contingency but did not have as large a down payment. I did not have a chance to discuss further because he was in a rush. I am in the process of emotionally detaching myself from (yet another) home in case this does not go any further.





edited to add: I tried sending a PM, but my sent box shows no sent messages. Is this because it may be unread?
 
[quote author="WishUponAStar" date=1250646951]edited to add: I tried sending a PM, but my sent box shows no sent messages. Is this because it may be unread?</blockquote>


When you send a PM, you must click the option box at the bottom that says: "Store a copy in the sent messages folder?" in order to have it appear in your sent messages folder. This will save a copy whether or not it is read by the recipient.
 
WishUponAStar,



You did the right thing. There is no reason to ask a buyer to remove a contingency unless they were concerned the property would not appraise for that much. Removing the contingency only benefits the seller and leaves you with one less safety net. Tell the realtor you will sign away the contingency if he will jump out of a plane and 'trust' that you put a parachute in his pack.
 
Is it just me, or is there not really enough info to assess Wishing's situation accurately? For example, what if Wishing is buying a relatively cheap property and only needs a small amount mortgaged, the size of a car loan, and could swing it with a low appraisal? Or what if Wishing is a high net worth individual who is not impacted by having to pay more out of pocket so the appraisal wouldn't carry as much weight? Sure, as a rule of thumb, it may be preferable for the buyer to keep the loan contingency in place but maybe not if they don't "need" it, is able to pay the difference, and wants to gain more leverage when there are multiple offers. We do not know where in Irvine this home is (1 bdrm old 1970's condo? 4 bdrm Quail Hill SFR?), how much it costs, how much Wishing it looking to finance, his/her financial circumstances, etc. Just my 2 cents. Sure, if you can not / will not pay up if you think it won't appraise for what you want or need it to, then don't remove the contingency... but more details are needed.
 
thanks.... I followed your advice left in the appraisal contigency, and it I'm still in! You were spot on. It's been narrowed to 2 offers, so we'll see what happens next. I'm a little reluctant to give too much info solely for privacy reasons (not sure who comes on here). However it is 3 bdrm condo about $710K. If the appraisal is greater than $5K or so difference, I would negotiate and would not want to pay the difference. Not sure if that was too vague?
 
[quote author="WishUponAStar" date=1250646951]hehe....you guys are awesome. thanks for lifting my spirits. So I called the agent and told him we do not believe it is a good idea to remove this contingency, and it is too risky to waive. He responded quickly and without questioning further: "OK no problem, if that is your decision. I want you to be comfortable. The seller called earlier and said the other buyers are anxious, so he may move on to them." I said fine. He also mentioned there is a buyer that agreed to remove the contingency but did not have as large a down payment. I did not have a chance to discuss further because he was in a rush. I am in the process of emotionally detaching myself from (yet another) home in case this does not go any further.





edited to add: I tried sending a PM, but my sent box shows no sent messages. Is this because it may be unread?</blockquote>
Got your PMs...glad to know that we aren't bidding on the same property.
 
[quote author="graphrix" date=1250613444]First, don't take my frustration personally. It has nothing to do with you, but with your loser agent and the slimy seller/selling agent.



Second, you need to find out the listing history of this house ASAP. Don't ask your agent, because he is a lying douchebag, and you need an unbiased 3rd party to tell you the truth. I'm willing to bet this place went into escrow and fell out at least once.



[quote author="WishUponAStar" date=1250602280]thanks!!...will take your advice. I had slightly fawked (like that word) myself because when I originally submitted my offer, I bid a little <strong>higher</strong> than the asking price (<strong>as recommended by my [strike]agent[/strike] douchebag</strong>, since there were multiple offers and he felt this would help get my offer accepted <strong>to close the deal so he could collect a commission and a bigger one at that with the higher price</strong>).</blockquote>


Only bid what you are willing to pay. The seller can always come back higher, and what if they did? You are a buyer, you are in control, and you need to let them know this. Sure your sleazy agent tells you to bid higher... higher likelihood the deal will get done, and the higher likelihood he will get his commission check to make his debt consolidation payment for the month.



<blockquote><strong>Then they countered with a price slightly lower than the original asking price if I remove the appraisal contingency</strong>. I'll just leave the contigency in there and see what happens.....</blockquote>


Of course they did... Either they know the comps don't support the value and it will never appraise for that price, or they have already been in escrow and it fell out because the appraisal never came in at the price needed. Hell... it may have been in escrow more than once because of this, and why you need to find an unbiased 3rd party to get you that info.



You should counter with the appraisal contingency still there, and add in a contingency that if it doesn't appraise for that value the seller agrees to lower it to the appraised value, pay all closing costs and points (jack up the discount points on the loan to 2%-3% to get a nice rate), give you a $5k credit for misc. repairs, and have the selling agent credit you half their commission for knowingly adding a contingency that they know will only fawk you.



P.S. Fire your agent if this deal falls through. He is a slimy douchebag. IrvineRealtor and even t-man (who didn't catch this slight of hand by the sleazy selling and buying agents) have more ethics in their pinky fingernail than these two corrupt RealTurds.</blockquote>


Just an FYI - The selling agent is the buyers agent. There is a listing agent and a selling agent if there are 2 agents involved in a transaction. It is confusing but, like the song says, "it's like that, and that's the way it is"
 
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