usctrojanman29_IHB
New member
Probably laid off and enjoying her PG&E cut.frank69m said:
Contamination under Irvine
- Thread starter Marsha_IHB
- Start date
NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
No.
Yes, I noticed a new thread on this topic had just been created and merged it into this existing thread.
Marsha, do you know where I can find information about the rate of cancer in Irvine compared to other areas? I'm curious about the statistics.
There are dump sites, burn pits, and land fills all over the old el toro. Its a dump. Supposedly, small amounts of enriched uranium were found in the north part of the base. Radium was also found but that is no surprise since radium paint was used to make the gauges for planes glow. It was poured down the drain and radium has a 1600 year half life, so cleaning it up would cost BILLIONS. The reason is because it is still radioactive, but doesnt glow. Here is some pics:
This seems to be why it originates from south of the base, as you can see the type of dumping done near 50 years ago:
Marsha, if you are truly afraid of cancer or contamination, may I suggest an idea I read in a novel? Get a lymphocyte count and a T-cell assay. These two tests won't tell you if you have something, but you can find abnormalities that may show you have been contaminated.
Also, and this is a conspiracy theory, but the reason I bring it up is that I grew up in Irvine and I believe it to be a profound observation.
Have you ever noticed how big the Tustin hangers are? El Toro is 10 times the size of Tustin, but the hangers at Tustin are bigger than any hangers at El Toro. Does that make any sense? You must see it in context. I have heard that someone has seen planes enter the hangers at El Toro, and disappear a short time later! Well, look at a map and follow the train tracks from el toro to tustin. I have a feeling there is some underground railroad connecting tustin and el toro, because back during the pearl harbor years, they couldnt risk leaving planes in mere hangers. This may be the reason the plume is headed the direction it is, but then again, it could just be underground elevations of groundwater.
James Irvine was only convinced to open el toro after commanders told him the japanese would take over his land. El toro was the MOST FERTILE LAND in So Cal when is was taken in the 50's, and one concern of the family was this exact situation - contamination! What an irony, huh? O, and Myford Irvine was murdered a short time later after this all happened, and it was found to be a "suicide." I wish I could speak to Myford and see how one could shot himself twice in the stomach and once in the head with a different caliber bullet, because that is what I call an epic suicide.
Not true. Or at least I have never heard of this.
The reality is that this is one of Americas dirty secrets. Groundwater all over the nation has been contaminated with TCE and other stuff. Think about how long ago the industrial revolution started in America. All those factories had to dump the waste somewhere.
It's a video game where a bespectacled scientist beats up alien crabs from another dimension with a crowbar?
Back away from the tinfoil. I bet you think Jewish bankers blew up the World Trade Center as well.
Hey, most of those in charge of Chernobyl at the time of the meltdown had no prior nuclear experience. Their specialties were turbines, coal-fired plants, etc. When I hear all of this crap about car emissions, SUVs, miles per gallon, etc... The disgusting ways that industry was/is destroying the environment really put things in perspective.
reason_IHB
New member
Hey, is this the same Marsha that used to post her pics wearing the 80's outfit?
no_vaseline_IHB
New member
reason said:
No.
Marsha_IHB
New member
Imagine living in Irvine and suddenly finding out your house you paid big bucks for sits right on top of a toxic plume of contamination that's been migrating from the former El Toro base for years. Well, that's what hapened to me and my husband; a subject we have been doing a lot of research on. Today, I talked with a realtor who told me houses in Irvine that are on top of or anywhere near this contamination are likely worthless because most buyers--if they knew about the contamination--wouldn't buy any home that sits on top of or anywhere near toxic contaminaiton. I can only wonder what is going to happen when other Irvine residents suddenly realize their homes are in the same situation my home is in. Imagine living in a home that nobody would want to buy if you had to sell it. Imagine what could happen to your health insurance if your insurance provider discovered you live in a toxic area like we do in Irvine. Imagine what could happen to your homeowner's insurance if the company issuing the policy found out about the toxic plume under your house. The sad thing is this is not just a Woodbridge issue; many other Irvine neighborhoods are impacted just the same. The city of Irvine knows all about this mess, but they haven't offered any assistance except to turn a deaf ear. Meanwhile, Irvine realtors continue to try to sell homes in Irvine without saying a thing about the contamination despite being asked. I look forward to the day when a class-action lawsuit is brought forth by angry Irvine residents because having a home that's worthless is sure to get a lot of Irvine residents hopping mad when they find out they've been duped.
I continue to follow ElToroNow.com because they seem to be the only organization reporting on this.
We Irvine residents deserve better, and I can only hope some attorneys take notice of what's happening and take action.
I continue to follow ElToroNow.com because they seem to be the only organization reporting on this.
We Irvine residents deserve better, and I can only hope some attorneys take notice of what's happening and take action.
frank69m_IHB
New member
Did the moderator move a posting to here?
Marsha, what is the purpose of this post. You've posted something on this before and I think most of us know of this.
I guess you live in Woodbridge where the plume is suppose to be coming down from El Toro.
I think the plume is know for the most part. Not sure about El Toro, but I believe in the Villages of Columbus and Tustin Field, they ask you to sign some sort of disclaimer about growing food on that land. Someone verify this for me, but I recall something like this when I was looking at those homes.
So, why don't you sell your home now if you know of this? Are you so under in your payments that you would lose out?
Marsha, what is the purpose of this post. You've posted something on this before and I think most of us know of this.
I guess you live in Woodbridge where the plume is suppose to be coming down from El Toro.
I think the plume is know for the most part. Not sure about El Toro, but I believe in the Villages of Columbus and Tustin Field, they ask you to sign some sort of disclaimer about growing food on that land. Someone verify this for me, but I recall something like this when I was looking at those homes.
So, why don't you sell your home now if you know of this? Are you so under in your payments that you would lose out?
zovall_IHB
New member
frank69m said:
Yes, I noticed a new thread on this topic had just been created and merged it into this existing thread.
kayochan_IHB
New member
The IRWD site has an updated Q&A section re: the TCE/El Toro issue which seems to answer the most commonly asked questions and questions that have come up at IHB on this subject. It looks like it was last updated 4/5/09:
"1. Does IRWD’s drinking water contain TCE?
No. TCE has never been detected in the drinking water served to any IRWD customers. IRWD obtains drinking water from two sources: 1) water imported by the Metropolitan Water District of Southern California from the Colorado River or Northern California, and 2) locally-available groundwater. Most of IRWD’s groundwater supplies are obtained from its Dyer Road Wellfield, which consists of 18 drinking water wells located in Santa Ana. IRWD does not have any drinking water wells that are located in the TCE plume emanating from the former El Toro Marine Corps Air Station (ETMCAS). IRWD’s Dyer Road Wellfield is nearly 3.5 miles from the leading edge of the ETMCAS plume.
TCE has never been detected in the IRWD drinking water distribution system, which is routinely tested for TCE. In addition its standard testing protocol, IRWD has performed specific testing on five separate occasions since May 2006 at seven locations throughout the Woodbridge area; no TCE was detected in IRWD’s drinking water.
2. What about the IRWD 2008 Annual Water Quality Report shows trace levels of TCE in IRWD’s?
In 2007, TCE was detected at trace levels in one of IRWD’s 18 drinking water wells, Well No. 3, located in Santa Ana. At the time the TCE was detected in this well, it was removed from service. IRWD’s 2008 Annual Water Quality Report, which reflects the results of testing performed in 2007, reported water quality sampling data from all water sources to the IRWD drinking water system.
The concentration of TCE noted in the 2008 IRWD water quality report for Well No. 3 indicated a range of detections from non-detect to 0.8 parts per billion. The laboratory detection limit for TCE is 0.5 parts per billion. The allowable California Safe Drinking Water standard is 5.0 parts per billion – more than six times the highest amount found in IRWD’s Well No. 3.
Note: The 2009 IRWD Annual Water Quality Report will show that no TCE was detected in any IRWD wells or drinking water in 2008.
...
6. Isn’t the TCE plume emanating from the former ETMCAS changing its shape?
Yes. The objective of the TCE plume clean-up program is to reduce the size and concentration of the plume. Because of the groundwater tends to move “down-gradient” (toward lower pressures), the size, shape, depth and location of a plume will change over time. Since the clean-up of the TCE plume at the former ETMCAS began, moderate changes in the shape and location of the plume were expected and have been observed.
The shape and location of the TCE plume is based on data obtained from wells monitored by OCWD and the Navy. Water samples from these wells are tested on a quarterly basis and, from these tests, the lateral and vertical dimensions of the plume are calculated using proven scientific methods. The dimensions of the plume are included in updated maps of the TCE plume which are available for public viewing in groundwater monitoring reports at the Heritage Park Library.
The most current map shows the leading edge of the plume (where TCE has been detected) is located approximately three miles from the former ETMCAS, near Culver Drive in Irvine. The plume is not threatening San Diego Creek because gradient pressures in the aquifer pushes the water down and away from, not up and towards, San Diego Creek. At this time we estimate the depth of the TCE plume ranges from 150 to 500 feet beneath the Woodbridge area in Irvine.
7. Since TCE is “volatile”, do IRWD customers risk exposure to TCE vapors while taking a shower?
No. IRWD’s drinking water has no detectable levels of TCE, so there is no risk of exposure to TCE “vapors” while taking a shower. Furthermore, pink scum that may be present in shower stalls is not linked to TCE; it is a type of bacteria (Seratia marcescens) that can be removed with a common household cleaning product.
8. Is there an elevated frequency of cancer in the Woodbridge area of Irvine?
No. Inquiries with the California Department of Public Health’s California Cancer Registry show that this agency has not identified any elevated cancer frequencies in the Woodbridge area of Irvine. The mission of the California Department of Public Health’s California Cancer Registry is to collect statewide data, and conduct surveillance and research into the causes, controls, and cures of cancer and communicate the results to the public. Residents that concerned about cancer frequencies in the Irvine area should contact Dr. Thomas Mack of the California Cancer Registry at (323) 865-0445.
9. Is there a risk of TCE vapors rising out of the TCE plume from the former ETMCAS base and contaminating homes and businesses over the plume?
No. The United States Environmental Protection Agency (US EPA) has determined that there is no risk of TCE vapors emanating from the TCE plume and contaminating existing homes and businesses located above the plume. The US EPA will continue to evaluate the groundwater data from the Woodbridge area to ensure that the plume does not present a risk for residents in this area. Contact Rich Muza of the US EPA, at (415) 972-3349 or muza.richard@epa.gov for further information.
It is incorrect to conclude that TCE vapors could be present in homes overlying the plume simply because TCE vapors have been found in homes in other areas of the United States where TCE is present in groundwater. The following three existing conditions prevent TCE vapors from migrating from the plume to the ground surface: 1) layers of soil, rock and water, as confirmed by technical mapping of the groundwater basin, seal off and restrict the ability of TCE (in liquid or gaseous form) from moving though these layers to the surface; 2) TCE dissolved in water can only transform into a gaseous state under dry conditions, which is impossible in the Woodbridge area due to the observed presence of layers of shallow groundwater without TCE; and 3) the natural vertical flow of the groundwater is downward, thereby causing the plume to also trend downward, not upward toward the ground surface. Because of these conditions, it is impossible for TCE vapors to emanate from the plume and migrate through the soil to the surface. ..."
"1. Does IRWD’s drinking water contain TCE?
No. TCE has never been detected in the drinking water served to any IRWD customers. IRWD obtains drinking water from two sources: 1) water imported by the Metropolitan Water District of Southern California from the Colorado River or Northern California, and 2) locally-available groundwater. Most of IRWD’s groundwater supplies are obtained from its Dyer Road Wellfield, which consists of 18 drinking water wells located in Santa Ana. IRWD does not have any drinking water wells that are located in the TCE plume emanating from the former El Toro Marine Corps Air Station (ETMCAS). IRWD’s Dyer Road Wellfield is nearly 3.5 miles from the leading edge of the ETMCAS plume.
TCE has never been detected in the IRWD drinking water distribution system, which is routinely tested for TCE. In addition its standard testing protocol, IRWD has performed specific testing on five separate occasions since May 2006 at seven locations throughout the Woodbridge area; no TCE was detected in IRWD’s drinking water.
2. What about the IRWD 2008 Annual Water Quality Report shows trace levels of TCE in IRWD’s?
In 2007, TCE was detected at trace levels in one of IRWD’s 18 drinking water wells, Well No. 3, located in Santa Ana. At the time the TCE was detected in this well, it was removed from service. IRWD’s 2008 Annual Water Quality Report, which reflects the results of testing performed in 2007, reported water quality sampling data from all water sources to the IRWD drinking water system.
The concentration of TCE noted in the 2008 IRWD water quality report for Well No. 3 indicated a range of detections from non-detect to 0.8 parts per billion. The laboratory detection limit for TCE is 0.5 parts per billion. The allowable California Safe Drinking Water standard is 5.0 parts per billion – more than six times the highest amount found in IRWD’s Well No. 3.
Note: The 2009 IRWD Annual Water Quality Report will show that no TCE was detected in any IRWD wells or drinking water in 2008.
...
6. Isn’t the TCE plume emanating from the former ETMCAS changing its shape?
Yes. The objective of the TCE plume clean-up program is to reduce the size and concentration of the plume. Because of the groundwater tends to move “down-gradient” (toward lower pressures), the size, shape, depth and location of a plume will change over time. Since the clean-up of the TCE plume at the former ETMCAS began, moderate changes in the shape and location of the plume were expected and have been observed.
The shape and location of the TCE plume is based on data obtained from wells monitored by OCWD and the Navy. Water samples from these wells are tested on a quarterly basis and, from these tests, the lateral and vertical dimensions of the plume are calculated using proven scientific methods. The dimensions of the plume are included in updated maps of the TCE plume which are available for public viewing in groundwater monitoring reports at the Heritage Park Library.
The most current map shows the leading edge of the plume (where TCE has been detected) is located approximately three miles from the former ETMCAS, near Culver Drive in Irvine. The plume is not threatening San Diego Creek because gradient pressures in the aquifer pushes the water down and away from, not up and towards, San Diego Creek. At this time we estimate the depth of the TCE plume ranges from 150 to 500 feet beneath the Woodbridge area in Irvine.
7. Since TCE is “volatile”, do IRWD customers risk exposure to TCE vapors while taking a shower?
No. IRWD’s drinking water has no detectable levels of TCE, so there is no risk of exposure to TCE “vapors” while taking a shower. Furthermore, pink scum that may be present in shower stalls is not linked to TCE; it is a type of bacteria (Seratia marcescens) that can be removed with a common household cleaning product.
8. Is there an elevated frequency of cancer in the Woodbridge area of Irvine?
No. Inquiries with the California Department of Public Health’s California Cancer Registry show that this agency has not identified any elevated cancer frequencies in the Woodbridge area of Irvine. The mission of the California Department of Public Health’s California Cancer Registry is to collect statewide data, and conduct surveillance and research into the causes, controls, and cures of cancer and communicate the results to the public. Residents that concerned about cancer frequencies in the Irvine area should contact Dr. Thomas Mack of the California Cancer Registry at (323) 865-0445.
9. Is there a risk of TCE vapors rising out of the TCE plume from the former ETMCAS base and contaminating homes and businesses over the plume?
No. The United States Environmental Protection Agency (US EPA) has determined that there is no risk of TCE vapors emanating from the TCE plume and contaminating existing homes and businesses located above the plume. The US EPA will continue to evaluate the groundwater data from the Woodbridge area to ensure that the plume does not present a risk for residents in this area. Contact Rich Muza of the US EPA, at (415) 972-3349 or muza.richard@epa.gov for further information.
It is incorrect to conclude that TCE vapors could be present in homes overlying the plume simply because TCE vapors have been found in homes in other areas of the United States where TCE is present in groundwater. The following three existing conditions prevent TCE vapors from migrating from the plume to the ground surface: 1) layers of soil, rock and water, as confirmed by technical mapping of the groundwater basin, seal off and restrict the ability of TCE (in liquid or gaseous form) from moving though these layers to the surface; 2) TCE dissolved in water can only transform into a gaseous state under dry conditions, which is impossible in the Woodbridge area due to the observed presence of layers of shallow groundwater without TCE; and 3) the natural vertical flow of the groundwater is downward, thereby causing the plume to also trend downward, not upward toward the ground surface. Because of these conditions, it is impossible for TCE vapors to emanate from the plume and migrate through the soil to the surface. ..."
LoudRoar_IHB
New member
Dear Marsha,
Just curious as to what the situation is. When did you buy your home? And when you bought it, did it mention anything about this contamination in the disclosure documents (which can be a huge stack of documents sometimes)? It seems the prices in that area are still very high, and in all honesty, Woodbridge is my absolute favorite area in Irvine (biased cause i grew up there). Who doesn't have fond memories of the lagoon! So if you sell now, you are saying you have to tell buyers, and they never told you? Im confused, please enlighten
Thanks!
Just curious as to what the situation is. When did you buy your home? And when you bought it, did it mention anything about this contamination in the disclosure documents (which can be a huge stack of documents sometimes)? It seems the prices in that area are still very high, and in all honesty, Woodbridge is my absolute favorite area in Irvine (biased cause i grew up there). Who doesn't have fond memories of the lagoon! So if you sell now, you are saying you have to tell buyers, and they never told you? Im confused, please enlighten
Thanks!
xoneinax_IHB
New member
Is the TCE plume projected to keep spreading toward the Dyer wells in Santa Ana ?
frank69m_IHB
New member
Marsha Marsha Marsha seems to post 1 thing, then doesn't respond to anything when people ask her questions. Go back to Greg Brady
Marsha_IHB
New member
Yes, from what I have been able to gather, the plume has reached the wells in santa ana, and there is evidence that shows this dates back several years. In february, there was an article in the OC Register talking about how the ocwd was going to do some more testing in that area to see how far the plume has spread. The bad part of all this is the fact that this is the area where the wells are that distribute water to irvine residents. Reports I saw on eltoronow.com show concentrations of tce were found in the well area going back several years at least. The more i dig, the more i find--info that shows we have been lied to about this for a very long time. Perhaps this may explain the high level of cancers in irvine. Even hoag hospital said irvine has a high rate of breast cancers; breast cancer just so happens to be one of the things tce causes. A boston doctor said tce exposure is "like a world trade center in slow motion--you wouldn't know it was happening to you until it was too late."
This has turned out to be a huge irvine cover-up the irwd, the city of irvine, realtors, and others don't want irvine residents to know about. The tough part is nobody can sell their houses who live atop or near the contamination because of a law that says the contamination must be revealed to the new buyer otherwise you can get sued later for failing to disclose.
If I can uncover this info, others can too--it just takes a little effort.
If irvine residents only knew what was really going on...
This has turned out to be a huge irvine cover-up the irwd, the city of irvine, realtors, and others don't want irvine residents to know about. The tough part is nobody can sell their houses who live atop or near the contamination because of a law that says the contamination must be revealed to the new buyer otherwise you can get sued later for failing to disclose.
If I can uncover this info, others can too--it just takes a little effort.
If irvine residents only knew what was really going on...
ABC123_IHB
New member
Marsha said:
Marsha, do you know where I can find information about the rate of cancer in Irvine compared to other areas? I'm curious about the statistics.
xoneinax_IHB
New member
It looks like the projected path of the expanding TCE plume now has a general border of Irvine Center Drive/Edinger to the north and Barranca to the south. Does MCAS Tustin require any such cleanup ?
Is there a reason why TCE plume originates at the southern half of MCAS El Toro; was that area a dump site/etc for the Navy ? Will the northern half of the base need much cleanup ?
Is there a reason why TCE plume originates at the southern half of MCAS El Toro; was that area a dump site/etc for the Navy ? Will the northern half of the base need much cleanup ?
LoudRoar_IHB
New member
xoneinax said:
There are dump sites, burn pits, and land fills all over the old el toro. Its a dump. Supposedly, small amounts of enriched uranium were found in the north part of the base. Radium was also found but that is no surprise since radium paint was used to make the gauges for planes glow. It was poured down the drain and radium has a 1600 year half life, so cleaning it up would cost BILLIONS. The reason is because it is still radioactive, but doesnt glow. Here is some pics:
This seems to be why it originates from south of the base, as you can see the type of dumping done near 50 years ago:
Marsha, if you are truly afraid of cancer or contamination, may I suggest an idea I read in a novel? Get a lymphocyte count and a T-cell assay. These two tests won't tell you if you have something, but you can find abnormalities that may show you have been contaminated.
Also, and this is a conspiracy theory, but the reason I bring it up is that I grew up in Irvine and I believe it to be a profound observation.
Have you ever noticed how big the Tustin hangers are? El Toro is 10 times the size of Tustin, but the hangers at Tustin are bigger than any hangers at El Toro. Does that make any sense? You must see it in context. I have heard that someone has seen planes enter the hangers at El Toro, and disappear a short time later! Well, look at a map and follow the train tracks from el toro to tustin. I have a feeling there is some underground railroad connecting tustin and el toro, because back during the pearl harbor years, they couldnt risk leaving planes in mere hangers. This may be the reason the plume is headed the direction it is, but then again, it could just be underground elevations of groundwater.
James Irvine was only convinced to open el toro after commanders told him the japanese would take over his land. El toro was the MOST FERTILE LAND in So Cal when is was taken in the 50's, and one concern of the family was this exact situation - contamination! What an irony, huh? O, and Myford Irvine was murdered a short time later after this all happened, and it was found to be a "suicide." I wish I could speak to Myford and see how one could shot himself twice in the stomach and once in the head with a different caliber bullet, because that is what I call an epic suicide.
LoudRoar_IHB
New member
zubs said:
Not true. Or at least I have never heard of this.
The reality is that this is one of Americas dirty secrets. Groundwater all over the nation has been contaminated with TCE and other stuff. Think about how long ago the industrial revolution started in America. All those factories had to dump the waste somewhere.
xoneinax_IHB
New member
Save $100,000 to lose a billion. Didnt those who authorized those who authorized it be poured down the drain understand what Half Life means ?LoudRoar said:
Geotpf_IHB
New member
xoneinax said:
It's a video game where a bespectacled scientist beats up alien crabs from another dimension with a crowbar?
Geotpf_IHB
New member
LoudRoar said:
Back away from the tinfoil. I bet you think Jewish bankers blew up the World Trade Center as well.
Shadax_IHB
New member
xoneinax said:
Hey, most of those in charge of Chernobyl at the time of the meltdown had no prior nuclear experience. Their specialties were turbines, coal-fired plants, etc. When I hear all of this crap about car emissions, SUVs, miles per gallon, etc... The disgusting ways that industry was/is destroying the environment really put things in perspective.