Columbus Square - homeless shelter

My apologies for the lack of clarity in my last post, LoudRoar. The Village of Hope is not a permanent housing community, but is what is known as transitional housing. This type of shelter is intended as a bridge between emergency shelter (typically 3 months or less) and permanent housing. I don't know all the specifics of this program's eligibility requirements, but usually tranisitional stays are between 12 and 24 months, with various requirements for clients to engage in supportive services, such as job training.



bkshpr - point well taken. Just as a side note on the cost issue, it is my understanding that the Rescue Mission's executive director, Jim Palmer, chooses not to accept government grants. So the planning and construction of the Village of Hope project has been in the works as private funding has become available, since the Navy granted them the land during the base transfer process back in the mid-90's. When all is said and done, the final construction costs will be at the several million mark, with some amount (tens of thousands at least) per year for operating expenses. For those that like to dabble in conspiracy theories, let me just say right off the bat that this was long before Jim was a Tustin city council member.
 
I'm curious, why would Rescue Mission turn down government grants? Are there certain restrictions he can avoid by being privately-funded?
 
[quote author="ocresident73" date=1249082400]My apologies for the lack of clarity in my last post, LoudRoar. The Village of Hope is not a permanent housing community, but is what is known as transitional housing. This type of shelter is intended as a bridge between emergency shelter (typically 3 months or less) and permanent housing. I don't know all the specifics of this program's eligibility requirements, but usually tranisitional stays are between 12 and 24 months, with various requirements for clients to engage in supportive services, such as job training. </blockquote>


Huell Howser had a program last night on transitional/permanent housing in Santa Barbara. Basically applicants who qualified would get a studio apartment, then after 2 years would upgrade to a one bedroom (permanent housing) if they maintain a job. I think Huell said the policy was zero tolerance. The apartment complex was SO NICE, nicer than some expensive apartments around here, and it had a view!!! I really think this is the best solution for the homeless. They can feel independent, and the program last night really shows that people turn their lives around. If you're interested the show is called California's Communities (on public tele).
 
[quote author="LoudRoar" date=1249096105]

The apartment complex was SO NICE, nicer than some expensive apartments around here, and it had a view!!!</blockquote>


Maybe I should apply?



I can move out from my current apartment and just roam the streets, then I get a nice condo with view :)



Talk about socialism. Disgusting :)



-G
 
[quote author="Gemini" date=1249096778][quote author="LoudRoar" date=1249096105]

The apartment complex was SO NICE, nicer than some expensive apartments around here, and it had a view!!!</blockquote>


Maybe I should apply?



I can move out from my current apartment and just roam the streets, then I get a nice condo with view :)



Talk about socialism. Disgusting :)



-G</blockquote>


You get rewarded for bad behavior. From bank CEOs to the homeless.
 
[quote author="Gemini" date=1249096778][quote author="LoudRoar" date=1249096105]

The apartment complex was SO NICE, nicer than some expensive apartments around here, and it had a view!!!</blockquote>


Maybe I should apply?



I can move out from my current apartment and just roam the streets, then I get a nice condo with view :)



Talk about socialism. Disgusting :)



-G</blockquote>


Nobody should get a handout, but all these people had some sort of disability. And maybe it is somewhat rewarding bad behavior, but it at LEAST creates a chance for people to emerge from their plight. Who is going to hire a guy who didn't take a shower? Nobody.



Unfettered capitalism is just as bad (if not worse that) socialism. Society should be a hybrid, some socialism some capitalism. Reward those with the good ideas that benefit society, help those who are helpless.



Some white collars give no labor and make the most money. That is socialism (even if it is disguised).
 
<blockquote>Some white collars give no labor and make the most money. That is socialism (even if it is disguised). </blockquote>


Are you kidding me? White collar work can create <strong>value</strong>, just like physical labor. Describing that process as socialism is also ludicrous.
 
[quote author="asianinvasian" date=1249097029][quote author="Gemini" date=1249096778][quote author="LoudRoar" date=1249096105]

The apartment complex was SO NICE, nicer than some expensive apartments around here, and it had a view!!!</blockquote>


Maybe I should apply?



I can move out from my current apartment and just roam the streets, then I get a nice condo with view :)



Talk about socialism. Disgusting :)



-G</blockquote>


You get rewarded for bad behavior. From bank CEOs to the homeless.</blockquote>


How is being homeless "bad behavior"? While the demographics of the homeless population in any community is varied, there are many characteristics that remain consistent. I don't recall "bad behavior" being included in any of the research data I've seen.
 
[quote author="Gemini" date=1249096778][quote author="LoudRoar" date=1249096105]

The apartment complex was SO NICE, nicer than some expensive apartments around here, and it had a view!!!</blockquote>


Maybe I should apply?



I can move out from my current apartment and just roam the streets, then I get a nice condo with view :)



Talk about socialism. Disgusting :)



-G</blockquote>


I've heard of the complex that LoudRoar referred to, although I haven't visited it personally. It, like most permanent supportive housing or shelter facilities for homeless/formerly homeless in California, is financed by a variety of private financing and government loans. The way I see it, this kind of housing is being subsidized much in the same way that every homeowner's home is subsidized by the federal mortgage deduction. Is it only socialism when you're expendable (as the homeless are perceived), but not when you are a homeowner?



Further, if these dollars weren't spent to house these folks, it would instead be spent on these homeless individuals and families cycling in and out of jails, hospitals and other public facilities. As numerous cost studies have shown over the last decade, housing and supportive services can reduce the drain on these public funds and services by more than 50%, depending on the region of the country you're looking at.
 
[quote author="SoCal78" date=1249112258]^ I keep thinking you're nude.</blockquote>


That would be a kinder, more compassionate Nude than I remember. Or are you talking about LoudRoar?
 
[quote author="tmare" date=1249112400]

That would be a kinder, more compassionate Nude than I remember. Or are you talking about LoudRoar?</blockquote>


The Tigger "blech" avatar.
 
[quote author="MojoJD" date=1249107727]<blockquote>Some white collars give no labor and make the most money. That is socialism (even if it is disguised). </blockquote>


Are you kidding me? White collar work can create <strong>value</strong>, just like physical labor. Describing that process as socialism is also ludicrous.</blockquote>


Which is why I said SOME.



Labor does not mean physical labor. Mental labor also counts.



Just because there is a middleman doesn't make it capitalism, it's still socialism. When your company fails and the government is subsidizing you, that is socialism. Even if that isn't socialism because of the indirect nature of the circumstance, its clearly not free market capitalism.



When I cannot grow my own wheat on my own farm for my own family without the fed being involved, that is definitely not freedom.



Who is Nude?
 
[quote author="SoCal78" date=1249112538][quote author="tmare" date=1249112400]

That would be a kinder, more compassionate Nude than I remember. Or are you talking about LoudRoar?</blockquote>


The Tigger "blech" avatar.</blockquote>


I'm super curious how he's reminding you of Nude/Oscar.



LoudRoar, just search for Nude or Oscar's comments. He is gone now, some are happy, some are sad.
 
I was joking when I mentioned the "socialism" thingy.

Just to poke at these pure capitalists infesting these forums :)



Socialism this, socialism that, just shut up and be glad you are in much better situation than other people (probably because you, your parents or your ancestors somehow got lucky and used socialism to rise from poverty and make you the "powerful and hardworking" person you are today).



-G
 
[quote author="tmare" date=1249135334][quote author="SoCal78" date=1249112538]

The Tigger "blech" avatar.</blockquote>


I'm super curious how he's reminding you of Nude/Oscar.</blockquote>


The Tigger "blech" avatar.
 
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1248989327][quote author="sad.machine" date=1248965288]i think everyone needs to stop sh*ttin on the starter of this thread



the homeless shelter for me would make me concerned about property values and my kids if i had any.



no ones saying homeless = evil, but its a fact that the statistical majority of homeless are either mentally ill or substance abusers. would you want to live next to a mental hospital or a drug rehab center if you had a choice?



we should leave our emotions aside and be objective here</blockquote>


You disgust me.</blockquote>


awesome job responding to my post and the issues.



your answer shows a lack of thinking.
 
[quote author="sad.machine" date=1249408901][quote author="no_vaseline" date=1248989327][quote author="sad.machine" date=1248965288]i think everyone needs to stop sh*ttin on the starter of this thread



the homeless shelter for me would make me concerned about property values and my kids if i had any.



no ones saying homeless = evil, but its a fact that the statistical majority of homeless are either mentally ill or substance abusers. would you want to live next to a mental hospital or a drug rehab center if you had a choice?



we should leave our emotions aside and be objective here</blockquote>


You disgust me.</blockquote>


awesome job responding to my post and the issues.



your answer shows a lack of thinking.</blockquote>


You missed the sarcasm so, just for you, I'll clarify.



I've been on a rant that the VoC/CS is a shithole (community with bad floorplans ) built on a superfund site (it's not really a superfund site, but there are serious groundwater and subsoil contaiminaton issues) for, oh, two or so years now on this board. All of a sudden, somebody discovers that there is a tranitional housing unit operating in the neighborhood and it's "OH NOEZ!"



Or, the homeless shelter is the least of your concerns. Plunging property values because poor products were developed on a site that shouldn't of been developed should be enough. I'm a little peeved that the priorities got out of wack. The NIMBYism just pisses me off in general, but that's a greater Irvine problem and not specific to VoC/CS.
 
[quote author="LoudRoar" date=1249112996]When I cannot grow my own wheat on my own farm for my own family without the fed being involved, that is definitely not freedom.</blockquote>


Have you seen my "milk" thread? Growing for other peoples consumption ain't so hot either.



<blockquote>Who is Nude?</blockquote>


Some quitter, who I miss a lot.
 
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1249420037][quote author="sad.machine" date=1249408901][quote author="no_vaseline" date=1248989327][quote author="sad.machine" date=1248965288]i think everyone needs to stop sh*ttin on the starter of this thread



the homeless shelter for me would make me concerned about property values and my kids if i had any.



no ones saying homeless = evil, but its a fact that the statistical majority of homeless are either mentally ill or substance abusers. would you want to live next to a mental hospital or a drug rehab center if you had a choice?



we should leave our emotions aside and be objective here</blockquote>


You disgust me.</blockquote>


awesome job responding to my post and the issues.



your answer shows a lack of thinking.</blockquote>


You missed the sarcasm so, just for you, I'll clarify.



I've been on a rant that the VoC/CS is a shithole (community with bad floorplans ) built on a superfund site (it's not really a superfund site, but there are serious groundwater and subsoil contaiminaton issues) for, oh, two or so years now on this board. All of a sudden, somebody discovers that there is a tranitional housing unit operating in the neighborhood and it's "OH NOEZ!"



Or, the homeless shelter is the least of your concerns. Plunging property values because poor products were developed on a site that shouldn't of been developed should be enough. I'm a little peeved that the priorities got out of wack. The NIMBYism just pisses me off in general, but that's a greater Irvine problem and not specific to VoC/CS.</blockquote>


Although I am no longer surprised by the amount of misinformation and general prejudice against the homeless (which is why I felt obligated to comment in the first place), I think your points are more relevant than the concerns over the VOH being on the other side of the development. The yahoos who thought it would be a great idea to build pseudo-million dollar homes on what amounts to a toxic waste dump under massive electric transmission lines were clearly smokin' something the rest of us didn't have. I think overpaying for a house in a crappy location should be the bigger concern here.
 
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