Call Transcript

[quote author="caycifish" date=1248998354]

a) I'm not a guy.

b) The premise has merit. I have a coworker who carries a knife around with him, and once upon a time when I was afraid for my personal safety he handed me his pepper spray to borrow for a while and proceeded to teach me how to use it. It was the object clipped to his pants at the time.

c) Comp folks often are forced to learn social skills to survive the workplace. Eventually the dorkiness from college wears off.</blockquote>


LOL!



I once asked Mr. SoCal (a nerdy engineer) if he would beat up a guy for me if he was threatening me. He said, "No. But, I'll build a robot to do it!"

<img src="http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/images/smileys/longface.gif" alt="" /> :lol:
 
[quote author="AZDavidPhx" date=1248998698][quote author="no_vaseline" date=1248994683]The "name calling" is also a violation of the IHB nice policy.</blockquote>


I am going to take exception with this. What is "nice"? This is a completely subjective policy.



Some people are offended by blunt conversation whereas others are not.



"Nice" amounts to a protocol of expected behavior which can vary from person to person and how they read the words and imagine them in their minds.



If I were to say to you that Hitler was a wonderful human being, you would most likely construe that as not being nice, when I was actually being nice.



If I said to you that Hitler was a lunatic who should burn in hell, you would most likely construe that as being nice, when I was not being very nice.



So let's dispense with the whole charade of trying to assert our will upon one-another by dictating what is nice and what is not nice. Instead let's stick to figuring out why the other person may think one way versus another. Much more productive that way.</blockquote>


Let me "define" nice for you... When people complain and report you using the report button, and the mods, like myself, get emails about the posts... then that means you are not being nice. Since you have been reported, I am going kindly ask you to tone down the name calling.
 
So you can't afford what Irvine is asking you to pay for their homes. Go buy somewhere else. They build for people who are willing to pay the premium to live in their city, and there is demand for those people who are willing and able. Is this unfair or wrong? To those who cannot afford their asking price, I'm sure it does. The fact remains, they only control the price they are willing to sell the house for. Someone has to walk up with the down payment and sign the contract to complete that purchase. If that person cannot be you because you cannot meet their asking price, perhaps you should take your money somewhere else that wants your money at the price you are able and willing to pay.



I'm going out to dinner tonight at Ruth Chris Steakhouse. I don't walk in and start complaining about how unaffordable the food is and demand that they lower their price to accomodate me. They have a price point they cater to and it is up to me to decide to go there or somewhere else that fits my budget. Some people live out their lives never having tried Ruth Chris (which to me sounds incredibly unfair), but that is how supply vs. demand works people.



And yes, I would do the same if I owned all this land in Irvine. I would do whatever I could to maximize my profit.
 
[quote author="AZDavidPhx" date=1248851023]Despite all the diplomatic ass kissing, it was received here as "double talk" and gets the "Sleazebag" title.</blockquote>


No name calling or strongly negative characterizations please.
 
[quote author="AZDavidPhx" date=1248999019] dumbass chatter

</blockquote>


Reading this thread shows me that AZDave has assimilated well.



Carry on...
 
[quote author="caycifish" date=1248998354][quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1248995725][quote author="reason" date=1248994586]Oh, and I find most computer programmers and IT guys are wacko, psychotic and have no social skills. Back to ignore mode.</blockquote>
Hey... don't let a few bad apples spoil it for the rest of us. Cayci is an IT person too.</blockquote>


a) I'm not a guy.

b) The premise has merit. I have a coworker who carries a knife around with him, and once upon a time when I was afraid for my personal safety he handed me his pepper spray to borrow for a while and proceeded to teach me how to use it. It was the object clipped to his pants at the time.

c) Comp folks often are forced to learn social skills to survive the workplace. Eventually the dorkiness from college wears off.</blockquote>
I did say "person". And I assume reason meant "guys" in the global sense... although most IT people tend to be males.



I don't know if IT men are wacko/psychotic in a way that will physically hurt people (Mr. SoCal for example... which was hilarious), they just tend to be more "thuggy" online because they feel it's their "territory" and they can hide behind their laser mouse and LCD screen.



Get them in a room with other people (especially pretty women) and see how hardcore they can be.



Jock: "Hey nerd, what would you do if I kicked you in the face?"

Nerd: "Twitter that to me online and see what happens!"



(see... now this is useless chatter)
 
<a href="http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/blog/rules">http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/blog/rules</a>



<blockquote>Shamelessly ripped from bimmerforums



<span style="color: red;"><span style="font-size: 16px;">1.Respect</span></span>

2.Don't Be Afraid to Post

3.Feel Free to "Lurk" and Listen

4.Tap into an Incredible Fountain of Information

5.Welcome Newcomers

<span style="color: red;"><span style="font-size: 16px;">6.Agree to Disagree, Respectfully</span></span>

7.Don't Attack Each Other

8.No Multiple Usernames

9.Keep Your Posts and Avatars

10.Quality, Not Quantity

11.Avatars and Signatures

12.Images and Linking

13.Finally We Reserve the Right

By becoming a member of IHB and participating on the message board, you are agreeing to abide by our rules. As with any rules, they are made for the purpose and benefit of our members as well as to protect the best interest of the message board. Please read them and understand them. If you should have any questions about them, feel free to ask for clarification.

</blockquote>
 
[quote author="SoCal78" date=1248999626][quote author="caycifish" date=1248998354]

a) I'm not a guy.

b) The premise has merit. I have a coworker who carries a knife around with him, and once upon a time when I was afraid for my personal safety he handed me his pepper spray to borrow for a while and proceeded to teach me how to use it. It was the object clipped to his pants at the time.

c) Comp folks often are forced to learn social skills to survive the workplace. Eventually the dorkiness from college wears off.</blockquote>


LOL!



I once asked Mr. SoCal (a nerdy engineer) if he would beat up a guy for me if he was threatening me. He said, "No. But, I'll build a robot to do it!"

<img src="http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/images/smileys/longface.gif" alt="" /> :lol:</blockquote>


Is it <em>possible</em> that said robot could be transported to Arizona?



<em>Just sayin'.</em>
 
Absolutely no preaching on my part in regards to name calling. I could care less who you deride and how.

I bring up name calling in regards to your argument. Your name calling shows that you have no argument.

It is not preaching. It is pointing out that your argument is ineffective and just a bunch of hot air spewing out invective as a substitution for intelligent discourse. Fine with me. Spew away.







Your accusation of preaching or being self-righteous is the same as calling Dan a sleazebag. I could care less how you characterize me or Dan Young. I bring it up to demonstrate that your points are invalid and initiate from a lack of intelligent argument or reasoning.
 
I can see that this is becoming a highly controversial thread and I think that it is unfortunate.



I am more than willing to respect the moderators wishes and take my message-of-hate out of the echo-chamber. You invited me and I can see that I have over-stayed my welcome.



Thank you for the debate. Bye all - it has definitely been an interesting ride. Good luck.
 
[quote author="awgee" date=1249002983]Absolutely no preaching on my part in regards to name calling. I could care less who you deride and how.

I bring up name calling in regards to your argument. Your name calling shows that you have no argument.

It is not preaching. It is pointing out that your argument is ineffective and just a bunch of hot air spewing out invective as a substitution for intelligent discourse. Fine with me. Spew away.







Your accusation of preaching or being self-righteous is the same as calling Dan a sleazebag. I could care less how you characterize me or Dan Young. I bring it up to demonstrate that your points are invalid and initiate from a lack of intelligent argument or reasoning.</blockquote>


Its not worth discussing. I've seen many of AZ's posts on the blog, and he's an extremely bitter and depressed dude. He blames his inability to afford a house in Arizona (because he would never want to live in Irvine or Orange County) with the fact that increased demand here has caused exotic financing to also push up prices in AZ.



I'm not sure if there were unfortunate circumstances that led to his financial distress, or if he just feels entitled to a 2000 sq ft. house without too much hard work, but either way, his method of coping is by insulting others.
 
[quote author="AZDavidPhx" date=1249004187]I can see that this is becoming a highly controversial thread and I think that it is unfortunate.



I am more than willing to respect the moderators wishes and take my message-of-hate out of the echo-chamber. You invited me and I can see that I have over-stayed my welcome.



Thank you for the debate. Bye all - it has definitely been an interesting ride. Good luck.</blockquote>


List of IHB quitters:



Nude

Trooper

SKEK

Winex

AZDavidPhx



That makes me sad. I miss Nude and Trooper. And on edit, Skek too.
 
AZDavidPHX as an outsider actually allow me to learn what it is like to view Irvine from far away. His perception is similar to my Arizona clients. The diversity of view point is good for this site and I will not stick around when it becomes an echo chamber. I hope he would stay and not be discouraged by the gang. Just be polite.
 
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1249007398][quote author="AZDavidPhx" date=1249004187]I can see that this is becoming a highly controversial thread and I think that it is unfortunate.



I am more than willing to respect the moderators wishes and take my message-of-hate out of the echo-chamber. You invited me and I can see that I have over-stayed my welcome.



Thank you for the debate. Bye all - it has definitely been an interesting ride. Good luck.</blockquote>


List of IHB quitters:



Nude

Trooper

SKEK

Winex

AZDavidPhx



That makes me sad. I miss Nude and Trooper. And on edit, Skek too.</blockquote>


Ten's feeling is hurt.
 
[quote author="AZDavidPhx" date=1249004187]I can see that this is becoming a highly controversial thread and I think that it is unfortunate.



I am more than willing to respect the moderators wishes and take my message-of-hate out of the echo-chamber. You invited me and I can see that I have over-stayed my welcome.



Thank you for the debate. Bye all - it has definitely been an interesting ride. Good luck.</blockquote>


Dave, you have had a bad day in the forums and on the blog, but don't be discouraged, and don't go away. You have had too much fun here, and we will all miss your posts and comments.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1249012489]AZDavidPHX as an outsider actually allow me to learn what it is like to view Irvine from far away. His perception is similar to my Arizona clients. The diversity of view point is good for this site and I will not stick around when it becomes an echo chamber. I hope he would stay and not be discouraged by the gang. Just be polite.</blockquote>


I have friends and colleagues who lives in other part of the country who have been complaining about how Californians moving to the local markets and driving up the prices. I completely understand their resentment. I probably will have the same resentment if I were to be in their shoes. However, it is different then the "entitlement" attitude someone demonstrated here. I think it is even more sickening for someone to drag out a relatively lower income family with lots of kids to justify their "entitlement" attitude. After "showing off" this lower income family can't afford to live in a generally expensive area, it is always ends the attack with calling the names of the evil corporation. I actually have a suggestion for this person: why don't you quit buying or using any products or services from all big corporations. No one holds a gun against your head. If you can actually do that, then I will at least have some respect for you.
 
[quote author="awgee" date=1248940139]I am shaking my head in disbelief. If TIC controls pricing, did TIC make the price go down the last few years?

Do you understand that homebuilders in Irvine and TIC have to compete for buyers with everywhere else in Orange County, not just new homes, but all the existing homes for sale? What percentage of all the homes for sale does TIC control? Prices control TIC, not the other way around. TIC does not have a monopoly. You may be myopic and only see the Irvine new home market, but TIC can not afford to be. TIC has to compete.

I am amazed at how little some folks understand about supply and demand. Yeah, TIC controls the price of homes Irvine. How absolutely moronic.</blockquote>


TIC does not control pricing, but they do have much influence on it because they control the quantity and asking prices of new houses. They can choose to keep prices high and not sell homes -- which is something they have done since the bubble burst. Eventually, this policy will create a shortage of supply that will work to keep prices high.



TIC does not control the bid because buyers and lenders control that. When credit tightened and unstable loan programs were eliminated, bids were reduced and prices fell. When bids no longer reach the asking prices of new homes -- which was the case before Woodbury East was launched -- then there are no transactions.



By continuing to limit supply, prices will stabilize at a higher equilibrium price level at lower volume.



TIC has to compete only if they wish to sell new homes. If they want to shut down production for 20 years, they have that option. As Dan pointed out, this does not serve them because it would harm their commercial developments, but it does not mean they have to produce enough new housing to completely meet the demand for housing in the market. Monopolies maximize profits by limiting production and increasing margins. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_profit">There is a theoretical point of profit maximization at prices about 30% above a fully supplied market</a>.



<img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/Monopoly_pricing.svg/405px-Monopoly_pricing.svg.png" alt="" />



[quote author="awgee" date=1248940139]I am shaking my head in disbelief... Yeah, TIC controls the price of homes Irvine. How absolutely moronic.</blockquote>


It is easier to discuss and debate with less hyperbole.
 
The way I understand it is the whole basis for TIC started with their "asset" in this case the Irvine Ranch and a vision "masterplan" to turn it into the community that we see developing right before us. Anything they do starts and ends with that vision. Obviously the profit/price component is factored in but unlike other companies that don't own the "asset" or have a long term vested interest in that asset have only short term profits to be concerned with. I am much more comfortable with TIC as the land steward than having some wall street corporation that is truly only concerned with profits develop the Irvine Ranch. Otherwise, we might be left with something like Dos Lagos. Although, many might appreciate that because the price has dropped to meet demand.
 
[quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1249017323]

TIC does not control pricing, but they do have much influence on it because <strong>they control the quantity and asking prices of new houses</strong>. They can choose to keep prices high and not sell homes -- which is something they have done since the bubble burst. Eventually, this policy will create a shortage of supply that will work to keep prices high.

</blockquote>
I'm a bit confused here... doesn't the bold part mean they control pricing of new homes? Or did I misread that?



What pricing was awgee referring to?
 
[quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1249017323] <a href="http://en.wiki.org/wiki/Monopoly_profit">There is a theoretical point of profit maximization at prices about 30% above a fully supplied market</a>.



<img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wiki/commons/thumb/1/10/Monopoly_pricing.svg/405px-Monopoly_pricing.svg.png" alt="" />





</blockquote>


IR, I am not so sure this chart applies, as TIC has no monopoly in Irvine. They only control the pricing for the new homes on their ranch, and they have no control over resales. Theoretically, one can argue resales will try to be as close to TIC's new home prices as possible, but it takes is couple outliers to upset it.
 
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