Buyer Beware..A tale of my own stupidity regarding Toll Bros.

B

BurnedbyToll_IHB

New member
This will be long, but it is an important warning to anyone considering buying from Toll Bros.

-We sold our home in and in August ?08 and we wanted to buy a home at Toll Bros. Heritage development in Vista Del Verde (Yorba Linda). We signed a contract with Toll for a home priced at $814,995 with $20,000 in incentives. We paid the required deposit of $40,778.00. Days after signing this agreement Toll asked us to come in and pick the first options because they told us that slabs were to be poured within the next few weeks (the beginning of September). We felt pressured to give additional money so soon, but relied on the information we were given (that they would be pouring soon and didn?t want to miss out on the options we wanted.) Additional deposit required for options was $15,625.00 bringing our deposit with Toll to $56,403.00. A month later Toll lowered the prices of 6 remaining homes in our phase on or about 9/24/08 (they still hadn?t poured slabs at this point on our home or any others.)

-We asked for the same price reduction ($30,000) they taken off the base price of the other home identical to ours (ours was on the street side of the development and the other home was on the golf course). Toll said they would only give us $20,000 off and we were required to use it for more options AND pay them an additional $20,000 deposit.

-We, along with our Prudential agent met with the project manager and we asked for all $30,000 plus a price guarantee that would protect us just till we closed escrow. At this point we discussed our reservations about the delay in construction and the money we had already given them for a home which had not even been started. We also showed him information about price guarantees being given by other builders to insure consumer confidence and protect the buyers home value.

-Toll countered with the $30,000 reduction being given in options and no price guarantee, plus we would be required to pay another $30,000 up front for the options being offered. This would bring our deposit to $86,403.

-We canceled our contract because we were worried about the home losing value while they still hadn?t started construction.

-Also, Toll promised to build pool and recreation area in the first phase, our early purchase was influenced by this information (now they say they will build it sometime in 2010)

-Toll said they would subsidize HOA until build out, but we are not sure they can or will keep this commitment

-We recently learned that Toll is being sued by shareholders for insider trading (Standard Law Review info)

- In light of the fact that Toll stock has declined dramatically and Toll executives took huge cash bonuses despite shareholder protest, we were concerned about the financial stability of the company and didn?t want them keeping more than $80,000 of our money!

-As of this writing the homes are finally being built and the home we backed out on is being offered at about $60,000 less than our contract price.

_We obtained a real estate attorney who got our option money back from Toll, but they kept our $40,000 as liquidated damages even though when we cancelled the contract the lot was undeveloped (no power lines, phone, concrete..nothing) The attorney said Toll is notorious for keeping deposits because they know they can run you to the ground legally with in house attorneys.

Not looking for sympathy, I just don't want this to happen to anyone else!
 
Simply making a general post. Your story is more common than you might think:



<a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=toll+bros.+screwed+me&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7TSHB">Google search for Toll Bros. Screwed Me.</a>
 
Did you do your homework up front before you purchased? I am not trying to bash, but I have learned the hard way that you MUST research any and everybody you deal with. You must also have a clause for payback in the event ANYTHING goes wrong. Doesn't mean that they won't take forever to pay you back, but it just means it keeps the lawyers at bay for a while.



I also have to question your purchase of a custom home when everybody and their brother are going into BK.... Well I do hope things work out well for you. If anything look at it as a learning experience. Good luck.

-bix
 
We felt comfortable buying because we had just sold our home for $1.1 and were taking our $500,000 equity and buying a home that allowed each of our kids to have their own room (we have three kids), but with a smaller yard (we were no longer using our own pool, half basketball court ect. as our kids spend time in their respective sports). We thought (yes, mistakenly and naively) that in this market Toll would want to work with and keep a pre-qualified buyer with a large deposit and high 700 FICO scores. My husband is in healthcare and his job is stable. We intended to stay in the house for at least 8 years as my youngest is 10 and we wouldn't leave until she graduates high school. I am not sure what you mean by "custom home" as this was a large (3,200 sq. ft) attached condo. I wasn't worried about a decline in value after I closed, it's the principle of losing money before you even live in a house. Even if it lost value then, it makes more sense for a family of five to own rather than rent long term.
 
[quote author="BurnedbyToll" date=1237368184]Even if it lost value then, it makes more sense for a family of five to own rather than rent long term.</blockquote>


Uh oh.
 
Rents in this school district for the same size house are $3,600 to $4,500 a month! Bigger uh-oh to me because I am throwing away over $43,000 a year on rent! I am currently paying $3,100 for a 3 bedroom condo! The Yorba Linda fires displaced alot of people who are now renting and homes to rent are hard to get! If I rent for 8 years that's a $345,600 loss with no tax write-offs! That's a much bigger uh-oh if you ask me!
 
[quote author="BurnedbyToll" date=1237371499]Rents in this school district for the same size house are $3,600 to $4,500 a month! Bigger uh-oh to me because I am throwing away over $43,000 a year on rent! I am currently paying $3,100 for a 3 bedroom condo! The Yorba Linda fires displaced alot of people who are now renting and homes to rent are hard to get! If I rent for 8 years that's a $345,600 loss with no tax write-offs! That's a much bigger uh-oh if you ask me!</blockquote>


How much would the house you were going to buy sell for now (compared to when you had the accepted offer)? In other words, how much did you actually save by NOT buying that house (of course you had some unfortunate losses as a result). How much would the property tax, mello roos, improvements, insurance and payment have been per month? Factor in the drop in value and I'd imagine you probably would have been paying a lot more than the rent you are paying now. Rent really isn't throwing money away, it's providing a place to live at a cheaper cost than owning most likely. While you have been "throwing away" your money on rent, your landlord has been losing thousands of dollars in value on the place he is holding as a rental, but you aren't. From all that I have heard from both IAC renters and some friends in

LA, rents are dropping significantly. Please remember that on this site you are addressing a lot of people who are financially savvy and have made a conscious choice to rent for purely monetary reasons. If you want to whine about renting, this probably isn't the place to do it. And another thing, a tax write off gives you back maybe 35 cents on the dollar, you still have to pay the 65 cents. If you really want to go out and buy, do it, I'm not sure what your argument is.



I truly do thank you for your post and warning to others though.
 
[quote author="tmare date=1237372572] If you really want to go out and buy, do it, I'm not sure what your argument is.</blockquote>


I do.



<blockquote>A tale of my own stupidity </blockquote>


The SFR I occupy costs $1750 to rent. Over the past 36 months I have "thrown away" $63,000. Over that same period of time it's value has fallen from $675K to about $330k. My landlord has "thrown away" $345,000, or another way, $9580-1750 = $7830 a month BEFORE paying the property taxes, mortgage, and insurance.



I can pay for a lot of private school tuition with seven dimes a month.
 
Our payment was going to be $1900 a month then $237.00 a month HOA and probably about $1,200 a month in taxes (taxes in Vista Del Verde are lower because the golf course is public and they "bought" down the tax rate). No mello roos or special assesment. HOA maintained front and our backyard was about 18x36 ft. We had done a preliminary estimate to put in artificial grass for low maintenance. I am not "whining" about renting so I would appreciate exchanging ideas without the snarky holier than thou attitude. If I wasn't financially savvy at all I wouldn't have refused to take out a second on my equity and live above my means when the house I sold at $1.1 could have been refinanced with an artificial value of $1.4. I was under the impression this forum was for the exchange of ideas. I am not passing a judgement on renters. I was merely stating why I hate to do so and most people with three kids don't like to rent for many reasons. Were it my husband and I renting would be great.
 
By the way I was paying for private school tuition at $14,000 a year for each child. When I switched them to public this year they were actually behind in several subjects, and this was a Presidential Blue Ribbn private school in Yorba linda so it doesn't always work out the way you think it will by "paying" for a private education.
 
[quote author="BurnedbyToll" date=1237374038]By the way I was paying for private school tuition at $14,000 a year for each child. When I switched them to public this year they were actually behind in several subjects, and this was a Presidential Blue Ribbn private school in Yorba linda so it doesn't always work out the way you think it will by "paying" for a private education.</blockquote>


Now that is true. People often think, if you're not paying for it (as in tuition, ignoring taxes), then it can't be as good as paying for it. But in reality, the Venn diagram of public and private school quality overlaps greatly - it's more about which school and which staff your kids go to, than the "public" or "private" label that counts.
 
I was surprised how my straight "A" student in private school was almost a year behind in math when she went from private school to public. I was swayed by the "dog and pony" show till I figured out my student entering 7th grade wouldn't be taught by even one credentialed teacher. I switched her to public school this year and I was worried about her entering 7th grade in a K-8 school where friendships have allready been formed. She made many new friends right away and has never been harassed verbally and physically like she was at private school.
 
I would completely agree with the public versus private school arguments. I have frequently had students come back after going to a high prestige private high school and tell me that their math teacher doesn't know the subject and basically just has the students read the book and figure it out for themselves. The pay at many private schools is so low that consequentially you get a bunch of parents who are basically volunteers teaching classes, no need for credentials (not all, I know).
 
[quote author="BurnedbyToll" date=1237373907]Our payment was going to be $1900 a month then $237.00 a month HOA and probably about $1,200 a month in taxes (taxes in Vista Del Verde are lower because the golf course is public and they "bought" down the tax rate). No mello roos or special assesment. HOA maintained front and our backyard was about 18x36 ft. We had done a preliminary estimate to put in artificial grass for low maintenance. I am not "whining" about renting so I would appreciate exchanging ideas without the snarky holier than thou attitude.</blockquote>


But I <em>am </em>snarky. That's what I do.



<blockquote>If I wasn't financially savvy at all I wouldn't have refused to take out a second on my equity and live above my means when the house I sold at $1.1 could have been refinanced with an artificial value of $1.4.</blockquote>


What makes you think $1.1M isn't an articifical value?



<blockquote>I was under the impression this forum was for the exchange of ideas.</blockquote>


We are. Some of your ideas aren't sound. You won't believe this, but I'm being nice. <em> Really.</em>



<blockquote>I am not passing a judgement on renters. I was merely stating why I hate to do so and most people with three kids don't like to rent for many reasons. Were it my husband and I renting would be great. </blockquote>.



I fail to understand how fabricating three kids justifies owning a home that will depreciate to a tune of around $7,000-8,000 a month, and "just the two of us" does not. Can you explain it to me?
 
This happened to me a couple of years back. It was with D.R. Horton. I put down a small deposit and a few months later the price on the condo dropped. I freaked out and demanded my money back. Of course, the sales guy was reluctant. I went to their corp. satellite office in Irvine and found out they'd cleaned out and moved to the Inland Empire.



So I threatened them via email with....Ugh!....I forgot what's it called now. It's a legal term. Whereby the builder can keep my deposit but my name is still on title. As a result, they can't sell the property to anyone else. The property would just sit there losing more money than my little deposit. Of course, they returned my money. I'm surprise that your attorney didn't get all your money back. And yes, the builder at first were using reasons as to why they couldn't give me back my full deposit. That's just my story :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top