Awgee is this you?
- Thread starter graphrix_IHB
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NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
awgee_IHB
New member
Wow, I already have a rep as a nutter, huh? Well, that is ok because the truth is always better, and even though that wasn't me hounding the Treasury Dept, the Federal Reserve, and the IRS, it could have been.
My understanding, and don't hold me to it as my memory is faulty, is that the Constitution and the Original Monetary Act specifies the dollar as one ounce of pure silver or 371.25 grains of pure silver, and a silver dollar as 412.5 grains of standard or 90% silver. The paper we use a money is actually a dollar bill or a Federal Reserve Note and is actually a bill of credit or debt, which the Constituion mandates against.
This probably seems irrelevant, but my guess is the relevancy will become more obvious within the next few years.
My understanding, and don't hold me to it as my memory is faulty, is that the Constitution and the Original Monetary Act specifies the dollar as one ounce of pure silver or 371.25 grains of pure silver, and a silver dollar as 412.5 grains of standard or 90% silver. The paper we use a money is actually a dollar bill or a Federal Reserve Note and is actually a bill of credit or debt, which the Constituion mandates against.
This probably seems irrelevant, but my guess is the relevancy will become more obvious within the next few years.
lendingmaestro_IHB
New member
You're right awgee. The dollar is an IOU from the US treasury. Our paper money is nol onger backed by anything other than the faith of the US gov't. Scary.
lendingmaestro_IHB
New member
scared to guess. Now that I think about it, is it an IOU from the Treasury or the Federal Reserve itself?
graphrix_IHB
New member
awgee,
Luckily you are not alone here. I plan on listening to the Liarnar conference call later today. I will probably yell questions out loud as if A. I was actually on the conference call B. if the call was actually live and C. as if they would actually let me ask a question anyway. But for some reason I do feel better when I do that.
While I could see you hounding for a definition of the dollar and pointing out how technically it is unconstitutional just know that we all have our quirks.
Luckily you are not alone here. I plan on listening to the Liarnar conference call later today. I will probably yell questions out loud as if A. I was actually on the conference call B. if the call was actually live and C. as if they would actually let me ask a question anyway. But for some reason I do feel better when I do that.
While I could see you hounding for a definition of the dollar and pointing out how technically it is unconstitutional just know that we all have our quirks.
awgee_IHB
New member
It seems no one wants to guess. Or maybe no one cares. But, if you are curious and want to guess, you will not look ridiculous if you guess wrong, because no guess could possibly be any more ridiculous than the truth. I'll ask again in case anyone forgot the question.
What does the Federal Reserve owe you for the dollar bill you are holding?
What does the Federal Reserve owe you for the dollar bill you are holding?
EvaLSeraphim_IHB
New member
Nothing and/or different notes.
"Federal Reserve Notes are fiat currency, which means that the government is not obligated to give the holder of a note gold, silver, or any specific tangible property in exchange for the note. Before 1971, the notes were "backed" by gold—i.e., the law provided that holders of Federal Reserve notes could exchange them on demand for a fixed amount of gold (though from 1934–1971 only foreign holders of the notes could exchange the notes on demand).<sup class="reference" id="_ref-0">[1][/SUP] Since 1971, federal reserve notes have not been backed by any specific asset. While U.S.C. 12,411 states that "Federal Reserve Notes . . . shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand" this means only that Federal Reserve banks will exchange the notes on demand for new Federal Reserve notes. Thus today the notes are backed only by the "full faith and credit of the U.S. government"—the government's ability to levy taxes to pay its debts. In another sense, because the notes are legal tender, they are "backed" by all the goods and services in the economy; they have value because the public accepts them in exchange for valued goods and services. Intrinsically they are worth the value of their ink and paper components."
Source: Wikipedia.
"Federal Reserve Notes are fiat currency, which means that the government is not obligated to give the holder of a note gold, silver, or any specific tangible property in exchange for the note. Before 1971, the notes were "backed" by gold—i.e., the law provided that holders of Federal Reserve notes could exchange them on demand for a fixed amount of gold (though from 1934–1971 only foreign holders of the notes could exchange the notes on demand).<sup class="reference" id="_ref-0">[1][/SUP] Since 1971, federal reserve notes have not been backed by any specific asset. While U.S.C. 12,411 states that "Federal Reserve Notes . . . shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand" this means only that Federal Reserve banks will exchange the notes on demand for new Federal Reserve notes. Thus today the notes are backed only by the "full faith and credit of the U.S. government"—the government's ability to levy taxes to pay its debts. In another sense, because the notes are legal tender, they are "backed" by all the goods and services in the economy; they have value because the public accepts them in exchange for valued goods and services. Intrinsically they are worth the value of their ink and paper components."
Source: Wikipedia.
lendingmaestro_IHB
New member
yep
No_Such_Reality_IHB
New member
What does the Federal Reserve owe you for the dollar bill you are holding?
The full faith and credit of the US Government. They owe me, one fiat currency US dollar.
The full faith and credit of the US Government. They owe me, one fiat currency US dollar.
graphrix_IHB
New member
So according to Wiki the notes are backed by the credit of the U.S. Didn't Moody's just downgrade them to Ba1 and S&P to BB?
mino2126_IHB
New member
So I guess that means its worth what ever we can wipe on it...glad they are using a softer paper now.
awgee_IHB
New member
Wow, the wikipedia answer is the official answer, but all the other answers seem more accurate, ( and entertaining ), to me.
It seems ironic to me that the government acknowledges that the dollar bill represents debt, but the only thing they will pay that debt with is more dollar bills, which the Federal Reserve can print at will. You have to work for those peices of paper, but the government can just print them.
It seems ironic to me that the government acknowledges that the dollar bill represents debt, but the only thing they will pay that debt with is more dollar bills, which the Federal Reserve can print at will. You have to work for those peices of paper, but the government can just print them.
graphrix_IHB
New member
I bought a really good copier so I just print my own. I just don't think Ben can print money fast enough for me so I just do it on my own.
CalGal_IHB
New member
LOL
CalGal_IHB
New member
Just make sure you print large bills. That toner can get expensive!
IrvineCommuter_IHB
New member
but graphix, pretty soon the paper that you're printing the money on will cost more than the currency (i.e. the penny).