Another one bites the dust?

Interesting read.

As you can tell... they really miss the TI members... BK especially... he has no dog to whip. There was even a suggestion of *gasp* reunification:
Coltrane said:
LizzieBennet said:
Based on jumpcut's thoughts, combining the TI and OCR forums is one way of going about it. I know...THE HORROR!!! LOL! :twisted: :lol:
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I actually had the same thought. I think the IHB refugee community was damaged when it splintered. Self-inflicted, I know. But reunification might breath some life back into the community -- if we can all get along. Of course, some of us wouldn't be welcome over there and others would get flamed out pretty quick. But still, whether through an intentional merger, or through natural migration, TI seems the logical destination for those who want to continue the community and choose not to take it to Facebook...assuming OCR ceases to be.
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Not sure that's gonna' happen considering some of the insults that have been thrown around. But I'll put it out there now... I welcome every single OCR member to TI, there are tons of other sub-forums here for you to make your home... even BK.

But I think they'll be okay... they just need to post more threads, polls (shoutout to jumpcut!) and try to disagree with each other more often. I see a little irony in this because of a thread I started there back in March:

http://www.ocreader.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=114&t=777

IHOonOCR said:
Lloyd's farewell thread, some of the conversation in the New Member thread and some hyperbolic assumptions about other forums inspired me to post this. If this doesn't go over well with the 5 Cylons... err founding members... let me know and I'll delete it.

There are just my observations from being involved with other forums and what I think makes a community more accessible:

1. As much as we loved the IHB, it wasn't a very new person friendly forum. The established cliques and insider attitudes made it difficult for new people to want to participate. I've mentioned this several times but my first days there were not very welcoming. That "vibe" is a bit present here.

2. While many of you may not like the subject material of the other forum, there is a general consensus that it is much more welcoming than the IHB and while it's not proven that you can discern who were IHB regulars and who were not, I do think there are a lot of former lurkers and new people who are actively participating there. The point being... friendliness and openness to others opinions helps.

3. Let's face it, discussion dictates whether or not a forum succeeds. Without it, it's just the same people posting the same things over and over again. And frankly, that is what I saw here at the OCR the first few days/weeks/months. While the abundance of content is great, having no discussions about it is not as great. There is a reason why the initial 5 and friends started this site, because you guys have things in common... but at the same time, this really doesn't create lots of discussion among yourselves unless "I agree" and "I agree too" counts. And that's the thing... like it or not... differing opinions is one of the things that makes topics hot.

4. But, contention needs to be tempered. Having opposite opinions makes for a great read, but when it starts to get personal (and I am referencing a well known member here and over there), it tends to turn people off and make them less willing to participate. Now I know that member is a great person and really doesn't mean to be like that... sticking to generalities is fine (although even that can get polarizing) but making disparaging remarks about one's husband or personal choices becomes very off-putting. I know from experience because even to this day, he still stoops that low in our online thread conversations. Luckily, I'm already self-deprecating so I just reverse it on him but other people who haven't met him or don't understand him won't feel the same.

5. So given that, although most of you are supporters of that member, is it a surprise what kind of responses he gets? Seriously... if none of you knew who he was and he started posting that stuff here... you guys would break out the troll nooses. And don't deny it... refer back to number 1 and tell me how talking about what features one likes in a home should automatically label that person as "elitist" and "troll".

6. I'm not very keen on people publicly using controversy at one place as a way to prop up another. It's just bad form... and it may be how you feel but it comes off as looking a bit like envy. After all, like I said, those contentious threads get more hits than most threads combined. And that's not to say it's good to have efights... but don't knock it as something that would "never happen here" because quite honestly... it would... and probably faster because many of you have strong personalities here. If my recollection is correct... haiku's first days here weren't very drama-free... unless of course that was some pre-planned event to set an example for others.

I just feel there is some irony going on in the recent comments on the New Member thread (there is already a new member who has echoed that sentiment) and I don't think it's fair. Some of you may not realize this but when you bash another community, you may also be insulting those same members who would have participated here. You may say you don't want those Irvine Loving Financially Irresponsible Fools posting here... but then who can you snark on? Guess what thread has over 1000 views here and the most pages/posts other than the New Member thread?

So to sum it up, I feel this place needs more topics that invite discussion... and that may come with a great variety of members. But at the same time, as much as opinionated posts draw traffic... unnecessary drama remarks do not. And I'm not saying I'm innocent of any of these infractions... I'm just trying to point out what I feel makes a better community.
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You can have snark without getting too insulting... the CPW thread is a good example of people disagreeing with each other but not getting personal about it... probably the "Who are all these buyers?" one too. Or you can just insult me... I have low self-esteem so it's not going to really damage me anyhow.
 
I remember that post of yours, IHO. I think it was right around the time I quit TI because of all the fighting and drama. I agree that the OCR forums had a cliquey feel...like an inside joke you're not in on.

We'll see what happens.
 
1. I would post over there but I am still waiting for an explanation from someone over there. I just PM'ed them for the New Year but since they have not replied back to me, the message is loud and clear, they don't want me posting over there.

2. Drudging up that post has relevance because it's all related to the current state of OCR and also why I am not posting over there.

3. I actually like the fact I am spending less time over there... or else I would get nothing done.

4. Nice KPOP-jack of their poll.

And do notice I wish nothing bad on OCR... in fact, I purposely cross-post to help them with traffic (and I think only you notice).
 
OCR didn't grow on me because of the layout. I'm easily distracted by small coins and shiny objects. Could not follow what they were trying to do over there.
 
Heh... BK is at it on that thread with his TI-hate... he likes to imagine some big TI conspiracy where we are all wishing OCR would crumble.

That's probably farthest from the truth or else many of use woudn't cross-post or lurk. Too bad he's too busy trying to tear us down instead of building a bridge that would benefit both our forums... I respect his knowledge but sometimes he doesn't use his brain when he posts.

I think the rest of OCR won't let it go away... even if LizLane are too busy to keep it up, others will step in to keep at least the forums going. I wish them the best of luck... and who knows... maybe if some things change over there... they might get a peek at the IHO view lot.
 
irvinehomeowner said:
Heh... BK is at it on that thread with his TI-hate... he likes to imagine some big TI conspiracy where we are all wishing OCR would crumble.

That's probably farthest from the truth or else many of use woudn't cross-post or lurk. Too bad he's too busy trying to tear us down instead of building a bridge that would benefit both our forums... I respect his knowledge but sometimes he doesn't use his brain when he posts.

I think the rest of OCR won't let it go away... even if LizLane are too busy to keep it up, others will step in to keep at least the forums going. I wish them the best of luck... and who knows... maybe if some things change over there... they might get a peek at the IHO view lot.
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Well, BK has his reasons for his hatred of Irvine. It's not really Irvine he hates, but himself...the earlier, younger version of himself. The person he was when he lived in Irvine. A failed marriage, personal regrets, and professional embarrassment...I don't know that I blame him. That's a lot for anyone to deal with, and if you don't deal directly with your past head-on, it manifests in other ways, and you start looking for scapegoats (like the city where it all began). That's my pop psychology 101 take on things. Yes, I'm available to help any and all forum members or lurkers with their problems or psychological issues!

In all seriousness, I hope OCR stays around, because it makes me think about the ever-dreamy John Cusack. And IHO, I think they want you back so bad it huuuuuuuurts.
 
A little harsh but there seems to be some truth in it.

It was something I always wanted to address with BK because he did choose to live in Irvine at one point in his life and he actually still owns property here so he must know the pros of Irvine Real Estate. I think a lot of his hate is aimed at me because he tries to argue with opinion... which we all know already a losing battle because opinions really can't be wrong or right. Just because I like 3-car wide garages doesn't make me wrong... but for him to use my opinion to paint me as some architectural hack is laughable... and when PStar buys a 3CWG do you see BK disparaging him? Plus he still holds a grudge when I out math'ed him on the IHB. :D

Anyways, in the end, we need to remember that for BK it's fluff... he likes to be sensational but when it comes down to it, he's a great person and very knowledgeable. He just doesn't have a filter when it comes to Internet quarrels and he'll post something personal without realizing it. It's easier to look past the insults and find the true nuggets of wisdom he often posts.

Which brings me to an RC-style topic:
http://www.talkirvine.com/index.php?topic=1366.0

BTW: I finally received a response from my PM to OCR... and although it's not what I was hoping for, in the spirit of the new year, I may end my moratorium.
 
IHO - i think you on your own can save OCR, heck man you kept this place going almost by yourself for a while there.
 
BK has no peer when it comes to (1) education, (2) achievements, (3) generosity, (4) good taste, (5) affluence, (6) knowledge, (7) wisdom, (8) connections, (9) yard size, (10) influence, (11) popularity, and so on, and so on.  I?m not very smart so sometimes I forget these things.  Good thing BK reminds me of them in every single post he makes.
 
qwerty said:
IHO - i think you on your own can save OCR, heck man you kept this place going almost by yourself for a while there.
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I agree that IHO's return would be the event of the year for OCR:

Mac2.jpg
 
I should nip this before the rumors get over to OCR... I, in no way, think I can "save" anything. It takes more than one person to make a forum interesting and there are quite a few people who can do that over at OCR... but most of them don't have the time to or they don't disagree on many things.

By default, because of my love of Irvine and 3 car wide garages, I already have built-in points of contention but it does require others to make the conversation interesting. Plus I like to think I'm a bit more accepting of dissenting viewpoints because I believe you can learn from people who don't think like you do.

OCR will be fine with or without me (or anyone else for that matter). It's the Borg that's more important... resistance is futile. The reasons why I would start posting at OCR is because I still have connections with people over there who don't post or visit TI and I think it needs some opposing points of view. But that's also the reason why I'm hesitant, because of the time it will take me to formulate posts to properly support my positions. I've touched on that before on how tired I get of defending my personal preferences when I shouldn't have to. It's like trying to argue why I like the color blue over pink.

And again... maybe that thread will get more of the regulars posting as it seems they are at least on board regarding keeping the forums going. Plus, they already have BK to as their resident post hog.
 
irvinehomeowner said:
I, in no way, think I can "save" anything. It takes more than one person to make a forum interesting and there are quite a few people who can do that over at OCR... but most of them don't have the time to or they don't disagree on many things.
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Modesty, that's what I love about IHO.
 
For me, I think the biggest problem with both forums is the way the posts are split up into different categories.  There aren't enough different topic posts to keep clicking each group to see if anything new has been posted since the last visit.
 
locolocal said:
For me, I think the biggest problem with both forums is the way the posts are split up into different categories.  There aren't enough different topic posts to keep clicking each group to see if anything new has been posted since the last visit.
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That is why i click on "show unread posts since last visit"
 
Starlight East said:
qwerty said:
IHO - i think you on your own can save OCR, heck man you kept this place going almost by yourself for a while there.
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Right. It's on the scale of Steve Job's return to Apple.

IHO, I hope you are negotating some perks before returning. For example sign-on bonus, full admin rights, and renaming it to 'OCR featuring IHO'.
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You guys are hilarious.

But I am in discussion with Larry to change his logo from 'IHB' to 'IHO'.

In all seriousness... other people at OCR will keep it going... it's not disappearing any time soon.
 
So.... my lurk-fu uncovered these nuggets:

http://www.ocreader.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=13389&f=156#p13389
Irvine888onOCR said:
jumpcutonOCR said:
I hope OCR hangs around (and I think it will) but any grand ambitions for a wide readership should probably be jettisoned. It is what it is. It's ok that it's just a clubby group of Internet friends. Despite some best efforts by the mods, this forum really only seems to get going when the subject is Irvine or TI, and even then it's only more hits by the same small group, rarely any new posters.

    That's not for lack of trying. I remember when BK posted about a high hit count on OCR one day, and he assumed it was all TI lurkers coming over to the clearly superior site. I think it was Lizzie who corrected him by saying it was actually the result of an OCPAC email blast with a link to an OCR review of one of their performances. That was a great outreach idea, but it's clear that all the OCPAC people who came that day looked around and saw no reason to come back.

    The forums here are really not conducive to outsiders. They're even not always conducive to insiders, but that's another story! :lol: A good example is sgip...here's a guy who is a major contributor to Calculated Risk and has a wealth of work and life experience all around OC (not just Irvine). Yet he said the other day on TI that he couldn't follow "what they were trying to do over there.".

    "just my $.02" <---hat tip sgip
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The problem is that a public internet forum is not necessarily a good place for a group of friends to shoot the breeze. You will always be conscious of the fact that your posts can be read by anyone and will be around until the end of the universe so you will be restrained in what you say. I'll bet bk wishes there was a way for all of his Irvine praising IHB posts to just disappear. Billions of years in the future, long after the earth has been incinerated by our exploding sun, some alien in the far corner of the universe will point an antenna in the sky and pick up ancient packets of data drifting across the galaxies. Once decoded, that alien will wonder who was this "bkshopr" and what was this wordrous place called "Woodbury East."
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Those mirror my original sentiment back in March. And really... it's not that all the regulars portray that vibe actively... it's there non-actions. Allowing BK to go roughshod all over the place and "Thank"ing him for it sets the tone for that (an image of Borat yelling "High Five!" comes to mind for a strange reason). Oddly enough... their most moderate members (at least to me) don't post as often as they used to and I think OCR can use more of their middle-of-the-road viewpoints.

But... change is afoot. This was probably a good wake-up call and the people over there are aware of what's going on are they are willing to remedy it... like GI Joe says... "Knowing is half the battle".

And I actually encourage many of you lurkers to become posters at OCR... they have knowledgeable people over there who can give you a perspective beyond our unicorn of a city. You can always come back to the "safety of TalkIrvine" (<-- hehe... see what I did there?).
 
jumpcut said:
irvinehomeowner said:
Not sure that's gonna' happen considering some of the insults that have been thrown around.
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I dunno, IHO.  But your dredging up and posting old wounds certainly doesn't help that cause.

I know what would help.  How about going over there and posting again?  You'd be a trailblazer in the "Letting Bygones Be Bygones" camp and maybe others would follow your lead...both here and at OCR.  Coltrane even gave you nice shoutout recently...which I wholeheartedly agreed with.

I could never figure out why so few people post on both sites.  I think I can count them on one hand...Pat, Freedom, USC, RC, Cameray, a few others less often...and me!  Someone who actually lives in Irvine! Whodathunkit?

Kumbaya
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYJMtn6IJeE[/youtube]
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You know, I know there are a handful of folks over there that would love nothing better than to know that I fell flat on my face and even attempted to google any kind of dirt they could on me using their "googlfoo" skills when I did nothing to them but I keep go over and post every now and again when there's an interesting topic (guess I don't really give a crap about the haters since I have thick skin).  The problem with OCR is that the top posters are all "buddy-buddy" with each other so you get no constructive discussions because almost everyone thinks alike.  A successful forum has a good balance of posters who can have constructive discussions on their differing viewpoints.  It would be awesome if we could merge the two forums together and have it grow into another IHB.  I'm all for a more interesting more with more activity/posts. 
 
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