American Idol Season 11
- Thread starter irvinehomeowner
- Start date
NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
Darn you, IHO. You just had to stay up all night dialing for Phillip until your fingers were sore. :'(
As a whole, I wouldn't say there is much of a white streak: Reuben Studdard (black) beat Clay Aiken (white). Jordin Sparks (half black) beat Blake Lewis (white). Another black winner was Fantasia Barrino who competed against Hispanic Diana DeGarmo.
As for male winners: There have been 7 seasons in which it came down to man vs. woman. Out of those, 3 times the woman won, and 4 times - the man.
Although, I will give you that the winners for the past 5 consecutive seasons have been white males.
I haven't watched the finale yet but caught a couple minutes. I was happy to see Mantasia perform with Fantasia, who, by the way, couldn't have chosen a more unflattering outfit to wear. :-X It was really cool to see them together, though.
You being snotty? I said I agree with you on that.
How do you define success - album sales? I don't know about you but as far as contestants go, although she didn't win the title, I believe Jennifer Hudson would count as one of the two most successful from the show. She's the only contestant to have won an Oscar along with her Grammys. She is ethnic.
I knew you were going to say that about them being from her area!!! How did I know? Because we think alike.
How many albums of hers do I have? Ummm... All of them. Check, mate.
Man. Getting you to admit I'm right just once is like nailing Jello to a tree. Just once is all I ask.
I feel you are right here... I do think Josh is more talented than the other two... and he should try to unsaddle himself from that "Mantasia" moniker because he is much better than Fantasia.
Jessica and P2 are also talented but I'm not sure of the 3, who will garner more album sales. Jessica should try to get herself a role on Glee (like Charice) or she will disappear like all the other female Asians on AI. P2 will probably end up like Kris Allen/Lee Dewyze and the other WGWGs... maybe one or two singles but not much else. Maybe they should form a band since other than One Direction... there is no dominant boy band out there.
Anyone catch Duets? I have it DVR'ed and watched the 1st performance and I'm not impressed... it's like The Voice... very fabricated.
@SoCal: Top 3 doesn't necessarily mean he was getting a good amount of the midwest/southern block... throughout the season he was probably getting enough from voters like us to get to the Top 3... but when it came down to the finals... he didn't hit with the tween audience as well as Jessica and P2 did. Too bad AI doesn't publicly post the voting numbers so we could see the voting trend throughout the season. I don't even recall them mentioning how close Jessica was to P2 in votes... so it may have been a lopsided victory for P2. He's a likable guy so I can see how he got the votes.
socal78
Well-known member
irvinehomeowner said:So the streak of young caucasian males continues... AI is racist!!!
Darn you, IHO. You just had to stay up all night dialing for Phillip until your fingers were sore. :'(
As a whole, I wouldn't say there is much of a white streak: Reuben Studdard (black) beat Clay Aiken (white). Jordin Sparks (half black) beat Blake Lewis (white). Another black winner was Fantasia Barrino who competed against Hispanic Diana DeGarmo.
As for male winners: There have been 7 seasons in which it came down to man vs. woman. Out of those, 3 times the woman won, and 4 times - the man.
Although, I will give you that the winners for the past 5 consecutive seasons have been white males.
I haven't watched the finale yet but caught a couple minutes. I was happy to see Mantasia perform with Fantasia, who, by the way, couldn't have chosen a more unflattering outfit to wear. :-X It was really cool to see them together, though.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Uh... by streak I mean the last consecutive winners.
And the two most successful Idols are not ethnic... but then again... they are not males either.
I did not like Fantasia at all... just shows how the quality of Idols has improved... not sure how she won since we all know that Jennifer Hudson is the true Season 3 Idol. Comparing Josh to Fantasia just makes Josh look bad because he really sings... she just screams. And yes... the Mrs. was appalled by her choice of attire.
BTW: We don't even vote for AI... we just pick our favorites and hope that the voting block agrees with us.
I do hope Josh gets a career... he was amazing last night during his performances... and the best thing out of the Finale was the Phone Book song... they should release that as a single. When I find a good YouTube video of it... I'll post it here.
And the two most successful Idols are not ethnic... but then again... they are not males either.
I did not like Fantasia at all... just shows how the quality of Idols has improved... not sure how she won since we all know that Jennifer Hudson is the true Season 3 Idol. Comparing Josh to Fantasia just makes Josh look bad because he really sings... she just screams. And yes... the Mrs. was appalled by her choice of attire.
BTW: We don't even vote for AI... we just pick our favorites and hope that the voting block agrees with us.
I do hope Josh gets a career... he was amazing last night during his performances... and the best thing out of the Finale was the Phone Book song... they should release that as a single. When I find a good YouTube video of it... I'll post it here.
socal78
Well-known member
irvinehomeowner said:
You being snotty? I said I agree with you on that.
irvinehomeowner said:
How do you define success - album sales? I don't know about you but as far as contestants go, although she didn't win the title, I believe Jennifer Hudson would count as one of the two most successful from the show. She's the only contestant to have won an Oscar along with her Grammys. She is ethnic.
He has a deal with Interscope.irvinehomeowner said:
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
I think anyone in the record industry defines success by album sales and concert tours. While Jennifer Hudson has nice awards... I don't think she's generated the revenue from songs and events as much as Clarkson or Underwood. And I think Underwood might have more trophies than she does (country music related).
And I think the argument can be made that either Clay Aiken, Daughtrey or Adam Lambert have been the most successful males (what ethnicity are those guys?).
As qwerty said... it's the American way.
P.S. There has been data that suggests that AI is heavily favored by the Southern US both in ratings, voting and album sales ( I believe 2 of the ethnic winners are from the south actually). And I didn't know they had a term for the streak... it's WGWG (white guy with guitar).
And I think the argument can be made that either Clay Aiken, Daughtrey or Adam Lambert have been the most successful males (what ethnicity are those guys?).
As qwerty said... it's the American way.
P.S. There has been data that suggests that AI is heavily favored by the Southern US both in ratings, voting and album sales ( I believe 2 of the ethnic winners are from the south actually). And I didn't know they had a term for the streak... it's WGWG (white guy with guitar).
socal78
Well-known member
Regarding the first part: Correlation does not imply causation.
About the second: Kelly Clarkson has had a career spanning a decade. I don't know how you would begin to compare her success to a more recent AI graduate especially in terms of records sales. However, imho, Jennifer Hudson is more of a household name. Kelly's movie "From Justin to Kelly" bombed at the box office while Jennifer won an Oscar for her role. With endorsements and everything, Jennifer has become a bigger star. I actually love them both personally (I've bought Kelly's albums) but can't say Kelly is the more successful of the two.
Edited for typos.
About the second: Kelly Clarkson has had a career spanning a decade. I don't know how you would begin to compare her success to a more recent AI graduate especially in terms of records sales. However, imho, Jennifer Hudson is more of a household name. Kelly's movie "From Justin to Kelly" bombed at the box office while Jennifer won an Oscar for her role. With endorsements and everything, Jennifer has become a bigger star. I actually love them both personally (I've bought Kelly's albums) but can't say Kelly is the more successful of the two.
Edited for typos.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
I believe you can take the first 5 years of Kelly's career and compare it to Jennifer's and album/concert sales will be in Kelly's favor.
First and foremost... they are singers... not actors... so I don't count movies into AI "success" as much as you do. I don't think Jennifer Hudson is as much as a household name as you think... and I do admit that Kelly has the advantage of being the FIRST Idol (you can also watch her tonight on Duets, a new singing show on ABC).
The southern influence makes sense (related to my middle America theory)... it's the only way you can explain Taylor Hicks.
First and foremost... they are singers... not actors... so I don't count movies into AI "success" as much as you do. I don't think Jennifer Hudson is as much as a household name as you think... and I do admit that Kelly has the advantage of being the FIRST Idol (you can also watch her tonight on Duets, a new singing show on ABC).
The southern influence makes sense (related to my middle America theory)... it's the only way you can explain Taylor Hicks.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
I am familiar with that story
Being a highly publicized case prior to trial and having a juror pool from the local area would lead me to expect them to know who she is.
That does not make her a household name in EVERY household.
But you broached the subject of "household name"... I was focusing on music success... how many albums of Jennifer Hudson do you have?
Being a highly publicized case prior to trial and having a juror pool from the local area would lead me to expect them to know who she is.
That does not make her a household name in EVERY household.
But you broached the subject of "household name"... I was focusing on music success... how many albums of Jennifer Hudson do you have?
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
And since you mentioned success by hardware... I looked up the awards and this actually amazed me:
Kelly Clarkson has 4 AMA awards, 12 Billboard Music Awards and TWO Grammys. So while Jennifer does have that one Oscar... in regards to music, Kelly dominates Jennifer.
Kelly Clarkson has 4 AMA awards, 12 Billboard Music Awards and TWO Grammys. So while Jennifer does have that one Oscar... in regards to music, Kelly dominates Jennifer.
socal78
Well-known member
irvinehomeowner said:
I knew you were going to say that about them being from her area!!! How did I know? Because we think alike.
How many albums of hers do I have? Ummm... All of them. Check, mate.
Man. Getting you to admit I'm right just once is like nailing Jello to a tree. Just once is all I ask.
socal78
Well-known member
Finally watched the last four episodes of A.I. I'm starting to think Nat King Cole couldn't win today. (And not because the talent has improved.) It was nothing short of tragic to see Joshua come in 3rd place. A star was born the likes of which we haven't seen since Al Green, Otis Redding or James Brown. As a throwback, I hope he does manage to revive that whole genre. Close (Bruno Mars) but no cigar. Island Def Jam could be a more suitable label for him than Interscope.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Here is your "once".SoCal78 said:
I feel you are right here... I do think Josh is more talented than the other two... and he should try to unsaddle himself from that "Mantasia" moniker because he is much better than Fantasia.
Jessica and P2 are also talented but I'm not sure of the 3, who will garner more album sales. Jessica should try to get herself a role on Glee (like Charice) or she will disappear like all the other female Asians on AI. P2 will probably end up like Kris Allen/Lee Dewyze and the other WGWGs... maybe one or two singles but not much else. Maybe they should form a band since other than One Direction... there is no dominant boy band out there.
Anyone catch Duets? I have it DVR'ed and watched the 1st performance and I'm not impressed... it's like The Voice... very fabricated.
socal78
Well-known member
Wooo! Being right one time feels so good. 
Here's what I don't really get about the WGWG / Southern-vote phenomenon if it is actually grounded in reality. I don't get why that would catapult Joshua to the top-3 yet prevent him from taking the title if it is indeed mostly (white? Southern?) teen & tween girls voting. To be frank, if you're from a traditional family from a particular region be it Southern or Midwestern like mine, then yeah, our Daddy warns us about them - them, meaning - black guys like Joshua. Told you I'm being blunt. You get the finger-wagging. But a lot of times that makes them MORE appealing because they are the "forbidden fruit" to us. Kids don't always react the way their parents intend. So, in reality, that could have the opposite effect on these type of voters, I'd think, if that is truly who is voting. Maybe it has less to do with ethnicity and more to do with the trend in music today. WGWG is more contemporary. If Phillip was stuck in Joshua's body maybe he'd have still won - BGWG-style. You don't see that often enough to know for sure. I can't recall a BGWG winner on AI ever. Like I said, I may know a little something about the psychology that comes from those families and I don't see it having that strong of an effect - unless it is the parents voting! It is more of a family show in some regions of America.
How could THIS have lost to Phil writing in pain from stones? Who is REALLY voting? I'm not 13 years old but I'm just not feeling it from P-squared. Whereas Joshua melts women everywhere into a puddle.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTubjUPWQWA&feature=relmfu[/youtube]
Here's what I don't really get about the WGWG / Southern-vote phenomenon if it is actually grounded in reality. I don't get why that would catapult Joshua to the top-3 yet prevent him from taking the title if it is indeed mostly (white? Southern?) teen & tween girls voting. To be frank, if you're from a traditional family from a particular region be it Southern or Midwestern like mine, then yeah, our Daddy warns us about them - them, meaning - black guys like Joshua. Told you I'm being blunt. You get the finger-wagging. But a lot of times that makes them MORE appealing because they are the "forbidden fruit" to us. Kids don't always react the way their parents intend. So, in reality, that could have the opposite effect on these type of voters, I'd think, if that is truly who is voting. Maybe it has less to do with ethnicity and more to do with the trend in music today. WGWG is more contemporary. If Phillip was stuck in Joshua's body maybe he'd have still won - BGWG-style. You don't see that often enough to know for sure. I can't recall a BGWG winner on AI ever. Like I said, I may know a little something about the psychology that comes from those families and I don't see it having that strong of an effect - unless it is the parents voting! It is more of a family show in some regions of America.
How could THIS have lost to Phil writing in pain from stones? Who is REALLY voting? I'm not 13 years old but I'm just not feeling it from P-squared. Whereas Joshua melts women everywhere into a puddle.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTubjUPWQWA&feature=relmfu[/youtube]
socal78
Well-known member
Funny moments on the finale:
Joshua trying to do a James Brown half-split, falling, and had trouble getting off center-stage quickly.
P2 getting confetti stuck in his mouth when it was falling from the sky during the singing of his last song.
Not funny but kind of shocking... Chaka Khan's outfit. It was almost as bad as Fantasia's. The wardrobe stylist who allowed them to wear these should be sent to the guillotine.
Joshua trying to do a James Brown half-split, falling, and had trouble getting off center-stage quickly.
P2 getting confetti stuck in his mouth when it was falling from the sky during the singing of his last song.
Not funny but kind of shocking... Chaka Khan's outfit. It was almost as bad as Fantasia's. The wardrobe stylist who allowed them to wear these should be sent to the guillotine.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
Neh... if you read my earlier post... it's a term I just recently found. I knew about the streak of white young guys winning... didn't really connect the whole guitar thing although I think Scotty is probably better without the guitar and Kris Allen plays a mean piano.Soylent Green Is People said:
@SoCal: Top 3 doesn't necessarily mean he was getting a good amount of the midwest/southern block... throughout the season he was probably getting enough from voters like us to get to the Top 3... but when it came down to the finals... he didn't hit with the tween audience as well as Jessica and P2 did. Too bad AI doesn't publicly post the voting numbers so we could see the voting trend throughout the season. I don't even recall them mentioning how close Jessica was to P2 in votes... so it may have been a lopsided victory for P2. He's a likable guy so I can see how he got the votes.
