A call for a housing bottom worth listening to??????

working poor_IHB

New member
Hum, when the experts tell us that we are a year away after saying that we have hit bottom many times in the last two years, makes me think that we may be looking at 2011 or 12 to hit bottom and then flat for a year or two.



Your thoughts?







A call for a housing bottom worth listening to

A handful of economists and analysts predict that home prices will level off by next summer.

By Les Christie, CNNMoney.com staff writer

September 11, 2008: 3:53 PM EDT



NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Alan Greenspan famously declared the worst was over back in November of 2006. And the National Association of Realtors' erstwhile chief economist David Lereah called the bottom a few times, starting in May 2006.



Plenty of other economists and real estate analysts have attempted to do the same - and of course they've all been wrong.



But a consensus seemed to emerge among experts at a housing forum held by Standard & Poor's and the Chicago Mercantile Exchange on Wednesday in New York. Readers will be forgiven for taking this pronouncementwith a large grain of salt.



Several panelists, including Economy.com's chief economist Mark Zandi, Goldman Sachs (GS, Fortune 500) economist Charlie Himmelberg, S&P managing director David Blitzer and S&P senior economist Beth Ann Bovino all agreed that home prices would stabilize sometime during the summer of 2009.



"The bottom of the housing market is coming into view," said Zandi, whose recent book "Financial Shock," examines how the subprime mortgage crisis occurred. "House prices, based on the S&P Case-Shiller index, are down 20% peak-to-trough and I expect them to fall another 5% to 10%."



"The key is housing affordability," Zandi said. "The [price] decline is beginning to restore affordability, which is now near its long-term average. In some places, Boston, Chicago, Denver, Orange County, affordability has been restored and those markets have stabilized."

More declines ahead



One piece of good news noted was home sales volume. The number of homes sold each month has already leveled off nationally, staying within a narrow range nearly every month this year at an annualized rate of about 5.5 million units a year.



Bovino said her forecast for home price decline is slightly more bearish than Zandi's, mostly based on S&P's belief that the country is now in a recession. With the economy struggling, job losses rising and a tough lending environment, she expects prices to fall another 10%.



"We think there will be an overshoot [with prices going beyond their logical bottom]," she said, in part because so many buyers are afraid to get into the market. "Nobody wants to catch a falling knife," she said.



And after prices do bottom out, Himmelberg expects them to remain fairly flat for a year or so.



Everyone on the panel agreed that the government takeover of Fannie Mae (FNM, Fortune 500) and Freddie Mac (FRE, Fortune 500) should help the housing market.



"We expect Fannie and Freddie to be more aggressive [in buying loans] over the next few months," said Zandi. "We are at a low point in credit availability right now."



The panelists were careful to couch their optimism with caveats. Zandi, for example, points out that there is a lot of uncertainty about the fate of Fannie and Freddie, in the wake of their government takeover.



There is some speculation that the companies will be downsized by a new administration after the presidential election in November.



"Neither candidate," said S&P managing director David Blitzer, "has decided what they want to say about that." To top of page
 
Meh I never listen to these guys.



Simply watch for these few things and you can know when the end is near.



Inventory levels...Supply/Demand ECON 101

Forclosures sky high and going higher...is that possible?

The fact that economy is pretty much in a freeze and signs of recession are all over the place...

Credit crunch....huh we have a credit crunch? whats that?



But in all seriousness, let's say people do want to buy...banks are pretty much going back to the 20% down, have a good steady job for 100 years, credit score that looks like when you are high or dreaming and cash reserves you don't have.



So yeah....nowhere near the end.



*NOTE: "no where near the end" isn't obviously subject to all areas in the country.
 
I found this at Piggington regarding affordibility in OC.



http://articles.latimes.com/2000/oct/17/news/mn-37670





"The upward spiral of prices means housing is becoming less affordable and more people may be forced to move outside the county"



"?It?s getting harder and harder for families to afford a home in Orange County, and that?s what we?re worried about,? said Esmael Adibi, an economics professor at Chapman University in Orange."





This was written in Oct of 2000 when the median broke $300k.





At the time it was interesting because the RE agents were saying it was too high!!!!



"Affordability is the ?single most important factor right now that will slow our market,? said Kristen Fowler, a real estate agent at Coldwell Banker Yorba Linda."



Unless incomes have increased 100%-200% I don't think we are there yet.
 
<blockquote>A call for a housing bottom worth listening to?????? </blockquote>


When tanta and IR call bottom, I will clear my calendar...
 
[quote author="IrvineRealtor" date=1221257837]<blockquote>A call for a housing bottom worth listening to?????? </blockquote>


When tanta and IR call bottom, I will clear my calendar...</blockquote>
I would put much more weight on Irvinerenter's housing price analysis than Tanta's. She is incredible at understanding and explaining anything mortgage related, but I think her personal opinions and views get in the way of her being objective when projecting trends or markets. My guess is that even she would admit that market analysis is not her thing.
 
Until we get rid of the YOY price declines and get an increase in volumes..........calling a bottom is just wasting your time.



If you miss the bottom by one year it won't cost you more than 3-5% if the historics mean anything.
 
but isn't the best time to buy is right before the bottom when inventory is plenty? i mean you have more selection and you don't have to go into a bidding war with someone.
 
[quote author="jbatzmaru" date=1221284241]but isn't the best time to buy is right before the bottom when inventory is plenty? i mean you have more selection and you don't have to go into a bidding war with someone.</blockquote>


That is when I will start looking. Rental parity is my starting point. If I can save money or break even on my housing costs when compared to renting, I will look to buy. If there is overshoot (which seems likely) then there will be a plenty of inventory to choose from.
 
[quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1221286289]

That is when I will start looking. Rental parity is my starting point. If I can save money or break even on my housing costs when compared to renting, I will look to buy. If there is overshoot (which seems likely) then there will be a plenty of inventory to choose from.</blockquote>


Do you consider the tax deductions (for a mortgage) when looking for rental parity? Cause if so, I'd say some houses are starting to get there now...
 
[quote author="25w100k+" date=1221286896][quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1221286289]

That is when I will start looking. Rental parity is my starting point. If I can save money or break even on my housing costs when compared to renting, I will look to buy. If there is overshoot (which seems likely) then there will be a plenty of inventory to choose from.</blockquote>


Do you consider the tax deductions (for a mortgage) when looking for rental parity? Cause if so, I'd say some houses are starting to get there now...</blockquote>


The supposed tax benefit from the mortgage interest deduction is discounted into the price of the home.
 
Has California real estate bottomed?

<a href="http://www.safehaven.com/article-12373.htm">Maybe only in Irvine</a>
 
[quote author="awgee" date=1221276904][quote author="IrvineRealtor" date=1221257837]<blockquote>A call for a housing bottom worth listening to?????? </blockquote>


When tanta and IR call bottom, I will clear my calendar...</blockquote>
I would put much more weight on Irvinerenter's housing price analysis than Tanta's. She is incredible at understanding and explaining anything mortgage related, but I think her personal opinions and views get in the way of her being objective when projecting trends or markets. My guess is that even she would admit that market analysis is not her thing.</blockquote>


Tanta passed away just before Christmas...



SCHB
 
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1232448229]I have tried to make the same argument for a few years. Not nealry as elloquently as Mr. Rosendahl. He is completely correct.</blockquote>


<blockquote>#



The only potential issue not reflected in the above tables is higher unemployment and potentially a reduction in median income levels. Income is the denominator of the PE ratio, and a back slide in income levels would also intensify the real estate re-pricing issue. Since we are experiencing higher unemployment, and everyone is projecting it to grow into 2009, it's a concern worth noting for real estate values.

</blockquote>




I think that this is the deal killer. Those increases in income from 2000 to 2007 are going to evaporate, particularly in The OC
 
Right idea, "evaporate" is the wrong adjective.



You can't "evaporate" more than 100%. We are heading back to 1998 prices, and if we're lucky, 1998 adjusted for inflation.
 
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