Left Wing Violence

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The lack Of ID goes to Pre incident as to intent. Takes some forethought to pack up Your gun, 2 clips and no ID then trot off to an obvious volatile event (Mikes hotel room). What he did wrong was to inject his armed And unID’d self int the middle Of an arrest, physically impeding an enforcement action, then not cooperating and following directions. Resisting and other laws Broken there🤷🏽‍♂️. Once The gun was exposed (wether brandished or not) officers felt the threat and deadly force decisions were made.
 
morekaos said:
The lack Of ID goes to Pre incident as to intent. Takes some forethought to pack up Your gun, 2 clips and no ID then trot off to an obvious volatile event (Mikes hotel room). What he did wrong was to inject his armed And unID’d self int the middle Of an arrest, physically impeding an enforcement action, then not cooperating and following directions. Resisting and other laws Broken there🤷🏽‍♂️. Once The gun was exposed (wether brandished or not) officers felt the threat and deadly force decisions were made.
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So if ice knocks on my door and I answer holding a gun…can they justify shooting me?
 
Imnotmoving said:
So if ice knocks on my door and I answer holding a gun…can they justify shooting me?
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make good decisions, why would you answer the door holding your gun? Have you ever done that? I have lots of guns and have never done that before🤷🏽‍♂️
 
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Imnotmoving said:
I might if an armed militia knocked on my door.
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Well, these are not an armed Militia, they are duly sworn Immigtation and custom enforcement officers. Physically and verbally identified as such. Don’t answer the door with a gun and they probably won’t shoot you🤷🏽‍♂️
 
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You mean what those ICE guys did not use? How simple is it to not murder someone? To use restraint with people instead of beating and shooting them. There is nothing you can say here. Nothing.
 
chose poorly. Any responsible gun owner 1) wouldn’t carry into a situation like this 2) wouldn’t interfere with a federal arrest 3) would not resist arrest 4) if you carry you must have your CcLicense and valid ID…(he had neither)…not too hard to predict the outcome.🤷🏽‍♂️ left his common sense at home with his id or deliberately endangerd himself and the officers.
 
There was no premeditation so it wasn't murder.

The officer that drew his gun and fired was initially focused on the arrest of the lady who was struggling on the ground near Pretti. IMPORTANTLY, the officer had something white in his right hand, which might have been mace?

Once it seems like the lady is subdued, the officer slowly turns around towards Pretti, who is struggling mightily. While the officer was capping the mace and putting it away somebody yells "He's got a gun!" five times, and the officer with the mace fumbles for a second, and only then draws his pistol. After that, the yeller yells "Gun! Gun! Gun!"

The armed officer then pushes the officer who got Pretti's gun out of his way, and is repositioning to Pretti's left side. It seems like the first shot might have been accidental because the officer visibly jumps when the shot goes off. After the first shot, there is a pause where Alex Pretti sits up into a kneeling position, and his right hand goes towards his waistband holster. Maybe he was reaching for his injury and not his gun, but that movement seems to have prompted the remaining shots from the armed officer.

SUMMARY: I don't think the officer went into this scuffle intending to shoot anybody. He was actually calmy putting the cap on his mace when Pretti's weapon was discovered. After the officer drew his weapon, his first shot seems to have caught him off guard. After that first shot, he didn't unload his weapon until Pretti motioned towards his waist band. That means he may have reasonably thought his life and that of everyone around them was in danger.

This is the video I'm referencing:
https://www.reddit.com/r/CCW/comments/1qm33h1/heres_a_slowed_down_zoomed_in_and_stabilized

Please respond with FACTS AND ANALYSIS ONLY not emotionally or politically driven comments.

If you think some of my facts are wrong, please point that out in a calm and civil way.
 
More nothing. What is that 6+ guys against one? Accidentally shoots him and continues to unload? Primary directive is to de-escalate and only use deadly force if absolutely necessary. They had him restrained and only let go when he was shot. Play it in real time and there was no “reacting to him possibly going for a gun”.

And the definition of murder does not require premeditation. I know you are going to challenge me on this and you will need to apologize to me a 4th time.

Please use logic and not political bias. This was reckless disregard for life. Period.

This is so silly, this is like rationalizing Kirk’s killer or Trump’s attempted assassination. Get the politics out of your head.
 
irvinehomeowner said:
And the definition of murder does not require premeditation. I know you are going to challenge me on this
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1st degree murder requires premeditation, like the Kirk shooter.

2nd degree murder would be a crime of passion, like a man finding his wife with another man.

Neither of those situations applies to this shooting. The officer was reacting to the fact that Pretti was: 1) armed 2) resisting arrest -- which led to a chaotic scene that unfolded in about 2 seconds. The way the officer fumbled the mace and the way he jumped after the first shot (which they are now saying didn't come from his gun) shows that he was incredibly nervous about the escalating danger of this situation.

Officers only need a reasonable fear that their life or the life of others is in danger to fire their weapon. They don't have the luxury of watching the video frame-by-frame from the comfort of home. Just because you saw Pretti's gun removed when the video was paused, doesn't mean the four officers on scene had the same line of sight, especially with a suspect thrashing around the way Pretti was.

I think it's terrible that he got shot, but he made choices that greatly increased the odds of something like this happening:

1) He brought a gun to a law enforcement operation.
2) He actively impeded the operation and wasn't protesting in a law abiding way.
3) He confronted a Border Patrol officer and got in his face while he was trying to clear the street.
4) He resisted arrest knowing the cops would find his gun and possibly escalate the situation.
 
That’s AI!!…Pretti was a gentle, soft spoken guy…🤦🏽‍♂️🤔😂. orrrrr..he was an Anti ICE jihhaddi loon…who knows? If he had been arrested (rightfully) then, he may still be alive.
 
Liar Loan said:
1st degree murder requires premeditation, like the Kirk shooter.

2nd degree murder would be a crime of passion, like a man finding his wife with another man.
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Good thing you're not a lawyer... I don't want to waste my time explaining it to you but you have 2nd degree wrong (and I was hoping you were going to try to go there):

2nd-Degree Murder​

  • Intentional killing without premeditation
    • Example: You get angry at someone and shoot them in the moment, but there’s no legal provocation like infidelity, assault, or extreme provocation that would reduce the charge.
  • Extreme reckless disregard for human life
    • Example: Shooting randomly into a crowd, or driving a car deliberately at someone with knowledge it could kill them.
  • Malice aforethought is implied — the law treats your conscious disregard for life as “malicious.”
And for Minnesota specifically:



🧠 Summary: Degrees of Murder in Minnesota​

DegreeTypical Meaning
1st‑Degree MurderIntentional and premeditated, or death occurring during specified felony crimes. MNCRIME.com
2nd‑Degree MurderIntentional but not premeditated killing; or unintentional death during a felony (felony murder). MN Revisor's Office
3rd‑Degree MurderUnintentional killing during an act eminently dangerous to others showing depraved mind. MN Revisor's Office

🧠 Major Note​

In Minnesota, third‑degree murder exists in addition to first and second — unlike many states that have only first and second degrees. MNCRIME.com
If you’d like, I can explain how these different degrees compare to manslaughter charges (like heat of passion vs reckless vs negligent killing) under Minnesota law.
 
irvinehomeowner said:
Good thing you're not a lawyer... I don't want to waste my time explaining it to you but you have 2nd degree wrong (and I was hoping you were going to try to go there):

2nd-Degree Murder​

  • Intentional killing without premeditation
    • Example: You get angry at someone and shoot them in the moment, but there’s no legal provocation like infidelity, assault, or extreme provocation that would reduce the charge.
  • Extreme reckless disregard for human life
    • Example: Shooting randomly into a crowd, or driving a car deliberately at someone with knowledge it could kill them.
  • Malice aforethought is implied — the law treats your conscious disregard for life as “malicious.”
And for Minnesota specifically:



🧠 Summary: Degrees of Murder in Minnesota​

DegreeTypical Meaning
1st‑Degree MurderIntentional and premeditated, or death occurring during specified felony crimes. MNCRIME.com
2nd‑Degree MurderIntentional but not premeditated killing; or unintentional death during a felony (felony murder). MN Revisor's Office
3rd‑Degree MurderUnintentional killing during an act eminently dangerous to others showing depraved mind. MN Revisor's Office

🧠 Major Note​

In Minnesota, third‑degree murder exists in addition to first and second — unlike many states that have only first and second degrees. MNCRIME.com
If you’d like, I can explain how these different degrees compare to manslaughter charges (like heat of passion vs reckless vs negligent killing) under Minnesota law.
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Doesn’t matter, nothing‘s gonna happen to that officer🤷🏽‍♂️
 
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