Author Topic: Selfish, Hateful NIMBYs  (Read 4642 times)

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Offline StarmanMBA

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Selfish, Hateful NIMBYs
« on: April 24, 2018, 09:01:00 AM »
I simply cannot fathom how selfish, how hateful, how narrow-minded people can be as they DEMAND that as few houses as possible be built.  They're against everything.
Their laughable excuses include, but are not limited to:

1.  Too much traffic
[How many NIMBYs drive their children to and from school, creating traffic.  How many NIMBYs drive their children to and from swimming practice and meets, softball and baseball practice and games, piano lessons, tennis, summer camp, the Global Village Festival, the Sawdust Festival, you name it.  This in addition to preaching the gospel of climate change sharia, while driving everywhere all the time.]

2.  "Greedy" developers
[Aren't teachers always clamoring for more money?  Can you say "greedy teachers," "greedy attorneys," "greedy politicians," "greedy senior citizens"?   We're all greedy, really, so why bother labeling developers, or for that matter "big oil" and "big business" greedy?]

WHERE ARE OUR CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN supposed to live?  Answer that, NIMBYs.  The price of housing is INSANE, and NIMBYs are partly responsible for the insanity, the raving, lunatic hypocrisy.
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Offline Irvinecommuter

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Re: Selfish, Hateful NIMBYs
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2018, 09:18:58 AM »
I simply cannot fathom how selfish, how hateful, how narrow-minded people can be as they DEMAND that as few houses as possible be built.  They're against everything.
Their laughable excuses include, but are not limited to:

1.  Too much traffic
[How many NIMBYs drive their children to and from school, creating traffic.  How many NIMBYs drive their children to and from swimming practice and meets, softball and baseball practice and games, piano lessons, tennis, summer camp, the Global Village Festival, the Sawdust Festival, you name it.  This in addition to preaching the gospel of climate change sharia, while driving everywhere all the time.]

2.  "Greedy" developers
[Aren't teachers always clamoring for more money?  Can you say "greedy teachers," "greedy attorneys," "greedy politicians," "greedy senior citizens"?   We're all greedy, really, so why bother labeling developers, or for that matter "big oil" and "big business" greedy?]

WHERE ARE OUR CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN supposed to live?  Answer that, NIMBYs.  The price of housing is INSANE, and NIMBYs are partly responsible for the insanity, the raving, lunatic hypocrisy.

Okay.

1)  I am not sure why fewer homes mean that you are NIMBY.  I mean I assume then you are totally okay with homeless shelters being built in in Irvine.

2)  Wanting less traffic has nothing to do with climate change.

3)  Greed is not about asking for more...it's about wanting to excess. 

Offline Ready2Downsize

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Re: Selfish, Hateful NIMBYs
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2018, 09:39:47 AM »
I simply cannot fathom how selfish, how hateful, how narrow-minded people can be as they DEMAND that as few houses as possible be built.  They're against everything.
Their laughable excuses include, but are not limited to:

1.  Too much traffic
[How many NIMBYs drive their children to and from school, creating traffic.  How many NIMBYs drive their children to and from swimming practice and meets, softball and baseball practice and games, piano lessons, tennis, summer camp, the Global Village Festival, the Sawdust Festival, you name it.  This in addition to preaching the gospel of climate change sharia, while driving everywhere all the time.]

2.  "Greedy" developers
[Aren't teachers always clamoring for more money?  Can you say "greedy teachers," "greedy attorneys," "greedy politicians," "greedy senior citizens"?   We're all greedy, really, so why bother labeling developers, or for that matter "big oil" and "big business" greedy?]

WHERE ARE OUR CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN supposed to live?  Answer that, NIMBYs.  The price of housing is INSANE, and NIMBYs are partly responsible for the insanity, the raving, lunatic hypocrisy.

How long have you lived in Irvine or are you a Irvine wannabe? There is no way the roads were designed for the number of cars that travel them during peak hours.

And there is absolutely no way we'd have the traffic we do if Irvine hadn't annexed the great park and built that out.

As for where will the kids/grandkids go? First off, as they age, their parents downsize and eventually die which opens up a house.

Second there is plenty of land. My kids moved long ago when prices were much lower.

No one is forcing them to live in Irvine.

And no.......... I don't live in Irvine any more but it's not like it was, it's getting worse due to traffic which is a direct result of more and higher density housing.

So........... do I think enough is enough? You bet.

Offline misme

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Re: Selfish, Hateful NIMBYs
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2018, 09:49:04 AM »
I agree that more homes need to be built, but the problem is that developers and the city are not putting in the necessary transit infrastructure to accommodate what is becoming a real city. Irvine started as a bunch of suburban "villages", but now is starting to build much denser, more urban-type housing product, but unfortunately, the infrastructure is still stuck in a suburban mindset. 

There needs to be a meaningful plan to develop an actually usable mass transit network, like light rail, buses, streetcars, etc, that will allow people to stop using their cars for everything. Let's face it, being "walkable" to Great Park recreational facilities and/or Woodbury Town Center to eat at a restaurant is not going to obviate the need for most people to get in their cars most days and drive to work or school, thereby clogging up all the surface streets. I think this traffic situation is what a lot of NIMBY's are reacting to.

If Irvine really does continue to evolve into a real city, as it seems to want to do, eventually, what's going to happen is that most regular folks are going to live in attached townhouses, condos and flats, and single family homes with driveways and yards are going to become premium housing product reserved for the wealthy. Expect teardowns of old houses sitting on large yards in good locations. The process is already starting in the older areas of Irvine.  Eventually, people will just accept this as a normal way of life and adjust their expectations.

For those who can't stand living here while a denser city develops around them, they should sell and move away to farther reaches of exurbs/suburbs which are still bedroom communities. Cities need to grow and change, or they wither away and die. You can't expect things to stay static, frozen in a previous time.



« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 10:02:27 AM by misme »

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Offline momopi

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Re: Selfish, Hateful NIMBYs
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2018, 10:45:29 AM »
I simply cannot fathom how selfish, how hateful, how narrow-minded people can be as they DEMAND that as few houses as possible be built.  They're against everything.
Their laughable excuses include, but are not limited to:

1.  Too much traffic
[How many NIMBYs drive their children to and from school, creating traffic.  How many NIMBYs drive their children to and from swimming practice and meets, softball and baseball practice and games, piano lessons, tennis, summer camp, the Global Village Festival, the Sawdust Festival, you name it.  This in addition to preaching the gospel of climate change sharia, while driving everywhere all the time.]

2.  "Greedy" developers
[Aren't teachers always clamoring for more money?  Can you say "greedy teachers," "greedy attorneys," "greedy politicians," "greedy senior citizens"?   We're all greedy, really, so why bother labeling developers, or for that matter "big oil" and "big business" greedy?]

WHERE ARE OUR CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN supposed to live?  Answer that, NIMBYs.  The price of housing is INSANE, and NIMBYs are partly responsible for the insanity, the raving, lunatic hypocrisy.


I'm fine with high density (affordable) housing with following suggestions:

1.  Mass transit (light rail) is built with the housing.  You cannot build enough roads to accommodate suburban car culture in this scenario.

2.  Water recycling/reclamation is built with the community development.  This is critical for our area as our water supply is subject to "boom and bust" rain cycles.  We can build nice water features as part of the reclamation plant.

3.  The new construction is built to energy and water efficiency standards.

4.  Housing size is reduced to improve affordability.  In 1950's the average size of new SFR was 983 sq ft with 2-3 bed and 1-1.5 baths.  Today that's the size of a 1 bed condo here.

5.  By moving people into higher density housing, more local land is allocated to open space & agricultural zone.  However the "open space" needs to be designed in a way that limits mass protest/civil unrest in the housing districts.  That is, divert future mass protests away from residential & commercial areas ("go hold your large scale protest over yonder at the park/farm").

6.  Underground 50 & 100 yard shooting ranges are built to accommodate the high density residential areas (above ground ranges near high density housing is not practical due to safety and noise concerns).

7.  Every community is required to have on-site storage of emergency food, water, and basic medical supplies for the residents.  Otherwise it's just increased liability to FEMA in emergencies.

8.  For mid to high rise residential buildings, look to Singapore's example of turning the ground (1st) floor into open space patio to improve air flow and open space availability to residents.

9.  Employ French designers to improve the appearance of the residential buildings.  No more fake Tuscon style homes with fake Spanish tiles, please.  We don't need a fake Eiffel Tower, but some Paris style buildings would be nice.

10.  Employ local police like British Bobbies -- unarmed foot patrol in high density residential and commercial districts, backed by mobile firearm units.  Real human officers and not egg shaped robots.  In case of trouble have trained foot patrol officers talk to the trouble maker first, and make them aware that if they refuse to comply and escalate to armed confrontation, a mobile firearm unit will arrive shortly in SWAT gear.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 10:59:44 AM by momopi »

Offline HMart

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Re: Selfish, Hateful NIMBYs
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2018, 10:49:12 AM »
I agree that more homes need to be built, but the problem is that developers and the city are not putting in the necessary transit infrastructure to accommodate what is becoming a real city. Irvine started as a bunch of suburban "villages", but now is starting to build much denser, more urban-type housing product, but unfortunately, the infrastructure is still stuck in a suburban mindset. 

There needs to be a meaningful plan to develop an actually usable mass transit network, like light rail, buses, streetcars, etc, that will allow people to stop using their cars for everything. Let's face it, being "walkable" to Great Park recreational facilities and/or Woodbury Town Center to eat at a restaurant is not going to obviate the need for most people to get in their cars most days and drive to work or school, thereby clogging up all the surface streets. I think this traffic situation is what a lot of NIMBY's are reacting to.

If Irvine really does continue to evolve into a real city, as it seems to want to do, eventually, what's going to happen is that most regular folks are going to live in attached townhouses, condos and flats, and single family homes with driveways and yards are going to become premium housing product reserved for the wealthy. Expect teardowns of old houses sitting on large yards in good locations. The process is already starting in the older areas of Irvine.  Eventually, people will just accept this as a normal way of life and adjust their expectations.

For those who can't stand living here while a denser city develops around them, they should sell and move away to farther reaches of exurbs/suburbs which are still bedroom communities. Cities need to grow and change, or they wither away and die. You can't expect things to stay static, frozen in a previous time.

Absolutely the most sane post I have read on TI about growth. This city has a damn good opportunity to grow and become a real economic engine. Is there an Irvine politician who espouses these beliefs?

Offline Irvinecommuter

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Re: Selfish, Hateful NIMBYs
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2018, 10:51:11 AM »
I agree that more homes need to be built, but the problem is that developers and the city are not putting in the necessary transit infrastructure to accommodate what is becoming a real city. Irvine started as a bunch of suburban "villages", but now is starting to build much denser, more urban-type housing product, but unfortunately, the infrastructure is still stuck in a suburban mindset. 

There needs to be a meaningful plan to develop an actually usable mass transit network, like light rail, buses, streetcars, etc, that will allow people to stop using their cars for everything. Let's face it, being "walkable" to Great Park recreational facilities and/or Woodbury Town Center to eat at a restaurant is not going to obviate the need for most people to get in their cars most days and drive to work or school, thereby clogging up all the surface streets. I think this traffic situation is what a lot of NIMBY's are reacting to.

If Irvine really does continue to evolve into a real city, as it seems to want to do, eventually, what's going to happen is that most regular folks are going to live in attached townhouses, condos and flats, and single family homes with driveways and yards are going to become premium housing product reserved for the wealthy. Expect teardowns of old houses sitting on large yards in good locations. The process is already starting in the older areas of Irvine.  Eventually, people will just accept this as a normal way of life and adjust their expectations.

For those who can't stand living here while a denser city develops around them, they should sell and move away to farther reaches of exurbs/suburbs which are still bedroom communities. Cities need to grow and change, or they wither away and die. You can't expect things to stay static, frozen in a previous time.

Absolutely the most sane post I have read on TI about growth. This city has a damn good opportunity to grow and become a real economic engine. Is there an Irvine politician who espouses these beliefs?

No because Irvine politicians are amateur.  They all speak in generalities but essential they want to keep things status quo.   There is no benefit in trying to do more or be forward looking. 

Offline Mety

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Re: Selfish, Hateful NIMBYs
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2018, 11:07:30 AM »
Do you think Irvine is too dense and the roads are not big enough?
Try visiting other cities around. Not to mention LA county has way more cars with way narrower roads with way much more expensive 800sq condos asking for about $800K - $1M and they are built in 1920s. I'm originally from Beverly Hills and Irvine is almost too wide and open space for me (which I like).
#fepo

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Offline Compressed-Village

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Re: Selfish, Hateful NIMBYs
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2018, 11:27:13 AM »
Agree, bubble livin’. Should try to go down town LA once in awhile. Then the appreciation for Irvine is all refreshed.😀

Offline acpme

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Re: Selfish, Hateful NIMBYs
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2018, 11:28:23 AM »
Live in Irvine again but work in LA. This is after spending about the last 10 years in Manhattan. It's hard to see how the Great Park adds density. When most cities need to grow, they build up and it gets denser. There's some of that in Irvine, a la Jamboree corridor. But Irvine also had the luxury of simply adding 700 acres of land to accommodate growth.

Traffic hour on Culver and Jamboree is a blessing. Yes, a blessing! Ok, it's more crowded than it used to be. It's also 50 mph between the lights. It's also lined with homes that have gained significant value and surrounded by plenty of major corporations employing growing numbers of high paying workers.

The reality is in the post Great Recession economy is that America has re-urbanized. Jobs and growth have concentrated a handful of top markets. And within those markets, employers and residents have concentrated in the urban core instead of far flung suburbs and exurbs. That means densification is a reality.

Consider any other market that has a growing presence from today's top employers and compare both cost of living and ease of living to Irvine. I would not trade Irvine for SF, SJ, LA, NY, DC, Chi. Irvine is one of the handful of larger US cities like Dallas/Plano, Austin, and Nashville where companies are growing and -- despite complaints about the good ol' days -- people aren't living on top of each other literally.

I have my day to day gripes, but after living elsewhere I've come to appreciate how well planned Irvine continues to be.

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Offline Ready2Downsize

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Re: Selfish, Hateful NIMBYs
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2018, 11:36:44 AM »
Do you think Irvine is too dense and the roads are not big enough?
Try visiting other cities around. Not to mention LA county has way more cars with way narrower roads with way much more expensive 800sq condos asking for about $800K - $1M and they are built in 1920s. I'm originally from Beverly Hills and Irvine is almost too wide and open space for me (which I like).

Yes I do. Then again, I have been in the area since the 1980's when Bryan and Culver was a four way stop and Bryan was one lane in each direction.

It shouldn't take 30-45 min to go a few miles on Jamboree at 5 PM.

To say well this isn't like traffic in Beverly Hills is like saying well the recent downturn the economy wasn't that bad. We could have been worse like in the Great Depression and maybe the farmers should be glad we don't have the dustbowl because it could always be worse.

The point is GOING FORWARD, not what was. The roads are congested enough and we have enough houses. The kids and grandkids can and will find a place to live. Building more NOW helps them buy a house in 20-40 years? Yeah, I'd like to see how that works. Cuz THEN there is no more land. We built it all out now.

AND building, building, building and then complaining we don't have enough water for everyone? Don't even get me started on that.

Offline acpme

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Re: Selfish, Hateful NIMBYs
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2018, 11:48:41 AM »
Yes I do. Then again, I have been in the area since the 1980's when Bryan and Culver was a four way stop and Bryan was one lane in each direction.

It shouldn't take 30-45 min to go a few miles on Jamboree at 5 PM.

The kids and grandkids can and will find a place to live. Building more NOW helps them buy a house in 20-40 years? Yeah, I'd like to see how that works. Cuz THEN there is no more land. We built it all out now.

Attached is a picture of North Irvine in 1994. That's as far back as Google Earth had available. There were homes and agriculture. Back then Irvine was largely a bedroom community. Maybe some people lived and worked there, but most were probably commuting to North OC or LA where the industrial base of SoCal was centered.

Today the center of gravity for OC is in Irvine, attracting corporate HQs from auto, pharma, and tech companies. You can both live and work here. I for one and worried less about where kids and grandkids live, but where they can find a job in the future. Thinking about housing is a 2nd derivative. Without jobs, the whole thing is moot.

On the whole thing being built out, well... we have also been hearing that for 30 years. There's still agriculture in North Irvine, a massive military base to the west, and even more massive one to the east. Legacy has been slowly building out since before the last recession. At some point we'll hit another downturn and that will stall development. It'll take another 30 years before these existing swaths of land are fully built out.

And by then who knows, maybe I will probably be complaining about the good ol days too.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 11:54:16 AM by acpme »

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Offline Mety

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Re: Selfish, Hateful NIMBYs
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2018, 11:55:55 AM »
Do you think Irvine is too dense and the roads are not big enough?
Try visiting other cities around. Not to mention LA county has way more cars with way narrower roads with way much more expensive 800sq condos asking for about $800K - $1M and they are built in 1920s. I'm originally from Beverly Hills and Irvine is almost too wide and open space for me (which I like).

Yes I do. Then again, I have been in the area since the 1980's when Bryan and Culver was a four way stop and Bryan was one lane in each direction.

It shouldn't take 30-45 min to go a few miles on Jamboree at 5 PM.

To say well this isn't like traffic in Beverly Hills is like saying well the recent downturn the economy wasn't that bad. We could have been worse like in the Great Depression and maybe the farmers should be glad we don't have the dustbowl because it could always be worse.

The point is GOING FORWARD, not what was. The roads are congested enough and we have enough houses. The kids and grandkids can and will find a place to live. Building more NOW helps them buy a house in 20-40 years? Yeah, I'd like to see how that works. Cuz THEN there is no more land. We built it all out now.

AND building, building, building and then complaining we don't have enough water for everyone? Don't even get me started on that.

Not just Irvine, but this world is not getting better. It only gets worse and worse.
There is nothing in this world that is good and forever.
But I find Irvine still has some balance I can stay put for a certain time being.

BTW, I never said we need to build, build, build more homes. I'm just speaking of the current Irvine situation that compare to many other cities, it still offers quite a bit of connivence to residents.
#fepo

Offline Soylent Green Is People

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Re: Selfish, Hateful NIMBYs
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2018, 11:59:43 AM »
NIMBY's blocked the construction of an Airport. The Great Park was as we know now, was the "carrot" of open space vs an 24/7 International Airport, and not sold with the "stick" - housing, and now way more than expected. That said, I'm very happy that NIMBY's were used for the betterment of the community. I'd be hard pressed to find anyone who said otherwise in this case. NIMBY's can serve a purpose.

My 02c

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Offline Mety

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Re: Selfish, Hateful NIMBYs
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2018, 12:22:36 PM »
NIMBY's blocked the construction of an Airport. The Great Park was as we know now, was the "carrot" of open space vs an 24/7 International Airport, and not sold with the "stick" - housing, and now way more than expected. That said, I'm very happy that NIMBY's were used for the betterment of the community. I'd be hard pressed to find anyone who said otherwise in this case. NIMBY's can serve a purpose.

My 02c

Everyone, even that homeless person who you don't want in your neighbor, serves a purpose.
#fepo

 

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