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General => Real Estate => General Real Estate and Mortgage Talk => Topic started by: ps9 on December 14, 2011, 11:56:49 AM

Title: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on December 14, 2011, 11:56:49 AM
Just got an email from my provident broker today for 30 yr at 3.75% with no fees..  conforming jumbo at 3.875% no fees.. wish I have a house to buy...
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Liar Loan on December 14, 2011, 12:07:36 PM
Just got an email from my provident broker today for 30 yr at 3.75% with no fees..  conforming jumbo at 3.875% no fees.. wish I have a house to buy...

How many points?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: IndieDev on December 14, 2011, 12:18:22 PM
You can get those same rates from NAF in Irvine, 0 points.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on December 14, 2011, 12:23:43 PM
No points
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on December 14, 2011, 03:36:00 PM
Provident shows at 3.75% for a $417,000 1st and a $625,000 value Single Family Home a 3.75% loan rate with .50 rebate points ($2,085). Their fees are $1,099 for an Administration Fee, Appraisal - assume $350, and all third party fees charged - likely around $1,400. Adding up those costs there are some fees that the rebate won't cover. If you have a Condo, sub 740 FICO, don't want to impound, or other particulars that Provident (and all other lenders also must take into account)  the rates and rebates shown will be different.

Provident locks the rate only after your loan is submitted to their AUS system and an "Approval" is granted:

https://www.provident.com/Origination/Information/RatesAndPricing/RateLockNotes.aspx (https://www.provident.com/Origination/Information/RatesAndPricing/RateLockNotes.aspx)

If your loan flips from an Approve to an un-Approved loan the rate lock could be voided. That is really a pretty rare occurance, but keep it in mind. Sometimes your loan is the exception that proves the rule.

Rates are absolutely low, but not going to go much lower. We've had some continuing bad news from Europe plus a series of very good Treasury debt auctions that has for the moment forced rates to where they are at this moment. It's a fleeting opportunity, just as it was in September of this year. A week after hitting the mid 3% range low, some lenders were priced over 4.0% due to news that wasn't mortgage rate friendly.

My .02c
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: IrvineRes on December 14, 2011, 03:43:37 PM
Are these the rates across the board or jsut for Provident?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on December 14, 2011, 04:00:40 PM
Are these the rates across the board or jsut for Provident?

Basically across the board with small variations. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on December 14, 2011, 04:01:57 PM
I got a buyer into contract on a Freddie Mac REO and negotiated a 3% credit for closing costs.  My buyer will use those points to buy down the rate to 3.50% (maybe as low as 3.25%) on a 30-year fixed conforming loan. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: rkp on December 14, 2011, 04:03:04 PM
is 3.75 the absolute lowest for 30 year fixed no points loan or is it possible to go lower?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on December 14, 2011, 04:04:19 PM
is 3.75 the absolute lowest for 30 year fixed no points loan or is it possible to go lower?
I think it's either at an all-time low or very close to it.  Can rates go lower?  Sure why.  People were asking the same thing when rates touched 4% and I also said they could go lower.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on December 14, 2011, 04:47:00 PM
Isn't there a limit to how low it can go due to carrying costs? I remember SGIP threw out some numbers regarding that.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on December 14, 2011, 04:52:58 PM
Isn't there a limit to how low it can go due to carrying costs? I remember SGIP threw out some numbers regarding that.
I think mortgages in Japan can be had in the 2s so that means there's still some more room to move down.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Homer_Simpson on December 14, 2011, 04:53:53 PM
3.75% with no closing costs???  :-\  Man!!!
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on December 14, 2011, 04:54:57 PM
I'm with PS... no home that I like at a price I want... but hey... you're supposed buy when rates are double digits right?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on December 14, 2011, 04:55:41 PM
3.5% with no closing costs???  :-\  Man!!!
Yup, that's what my buyer is looking at.....maybe even a 3.375% rate depending on the cost.  If you (or your realtor) ask, sometimes you do receive.  ;)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on December 14, 2011, 04:56:15 PM
I'm with PS... no home that I like at a price I want... but hey... you're supposed buy when rates are double digits right?
Yeah, don't hold your breathe for that.  Like I said....Japan 2.0   I can see the US 10-year bond get down to 1% to 1.50% in 2012.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on December 14, 2011, 05:08:47 PM
I'm with PS... no home that I like at a price I want... but hey... you're supposed buy when rates are double digits right?
Yeah, don't hold your breathe for that.  Like I said....Japan 2.0   I can see the US 10-year bond get down to 1% to 1.50% in 2012.

i dont know if rates will go that low, but i dont see rates going up any time in the next 5 years. unfortunately i dont think i can hold out that long to buy a house.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on December 14, 2011, 05:27:49 PM
I'm with PS... no home that I like at a price I want... but hey... you're supposed buy when rates are double digits right?
Yeah, don't hold your breathe for that.  Like I said....Japan 2.0   I can see the US 10-year bond get down to 1% to 1.50% in 2012.

i dont know if rates will go that low, but i dont see rates going up any time in the next 5 years. unfortunately i dont think i can hold out that long to buy a house.
All depends on what happens in Europe.  If Europe gets messy then we go below 1.50% for sure.  The US Dollar and US Bonds are where people go when they are scared and/or crap is hitting the fan.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: rkp on December 14, 2011, 05:48:33 PM
I got a buyer into contract on a Freddie Mac REO and negotiated a 3% credit for closing costs.  My buyer will use those points to buy down the rate to 3.50% (maybe as low as 3.25%) on a 30-year fixed conforming loan.

When did the 3% credit for closing come enter the negotiations?  Do you write that in the initial offer or ask for it after opening escrow?
 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on December 14, 2011, 05:55:04 PM
I got a buyer into contract on a Freddie Mac REO and negotiated a 3% credit for closing costs.  My buyer will use those points to buy down the rate to 3.50% (maybe as low as 3.25%) on a 30-year fixed conforming loan.

When did the 3% credit for closing come enter the negotiations?  Do you write that in the initial offer or ask for it after opening escrow?
 
I wrote it into the original offer that I submitted to the REO bank (I always do that on REOs).  They only countered on price and closing date (most other REO banks countered the credit down between $0 and 1%).
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: rkp on December 14, 2011, 06:00:27 PM
does it make sense to asking for 3% credit for cash offers?  seems silly right?

i am looking at a short sale with bank approved asking and its had a few offers that have fallen out of escrow.  hence bank only wants cash offer and not 1 cent below their ask (it is priced low already so makes sense).  being the frugal minded and always looking for more, i would like to make the cash offer but still get back some.   
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on December 14, 2011, 06:10:18 PM
does it make sense to asking for 3% credit for cash offers?  seems silly right?

i am looking at a short sale with bank approved asking and its had a few offers that have fallen out of escrow.  hence bank only wants cash offer and not 1 cent below their ask (it is priced low already so makes sense).  being the frugal minded and always looking for more, i would like to make the cash offer but still get back some.   
The 3% credit for closing costs is a use it or lose it thing so they will only credit you up to the closing costs.  For cash buyers, that'll be around .50% to .75% of the purchase price (depending upon property tax and HOA prorations).  Asking for a credit with short sales is completely different than asking for them on REOs.  My guess is that the short sale lender is looking at particular net sales proceed amount that they want so they may push back on your request even for a 1% credit for closing costs.  But hey, I would ask for it....if you don't ask then you'll never know.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: IrvineRealtor on December 15, 2011, 12:25:49 AM
I got a buyer into contract on a Freddie Mac REO and negotiated a 3% credit for closing costs.  My buyer will use those points to buy down the rate to 3.50% (maybe as low as 3.25%) on a 30-year fixed conforming loan.

When did the 3% credit for closing come enter the negotiations?  Do you write that in the initial offer or ask for it after opening escrow?
 

Previously (and likely again in the future) HomePath® properties for Fannie Mae were eligible for up to a 3.5% of the agreed purchase price with some eligibility requirements:
Eligibility
•Buyer incentive must be requested at the initial offer submission.
•Initial offer must be submitted on or after April 11, 2011 (the effective date of the incentive program).
•The property sale must close on or before June 30, 2011 . No exceptions will be made to this deadline.
•Owner occupants only. Buyers purchasing a HomePath property as their primary residence may receive up to 3.5% of the final sales price towards closing cost assistance (second homes and investment properties are excluded). Additionally, buyers must sign the Owner Occupant Certification Rider to the Real Estate Purchase Addendum (available on the HomePath Resources page on efanniemae.com).
•Retail and public entities are eligible for the incentive; however pool and auction sales are NOT eligible. In certain instances where the insurer will not permit it, the incentive will not be available.
•Fannie Mae reserves the right to remove any property from the promotion or end the promotion at any time. Any dispute over the payment of the incentive shall be resolved by Fannie Mae in its sole discretion.

Currently Freddy Mac is currently offering 3% to the buyers of its HomeSteps® properties, similarly.
Full disclosure: The agents are offered an additional $1000, as well.
No negotiating necessary.
http://www.homesteps.com/homebuyer/offers.html

DURATION OF OFFER: Offers received between November 15, 2011 and January 31, 2012 with escrow closed on or before March 15, 2012.

-IR2
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on December 15, 2011, 08:27:43 AM
I got a buyer into contract on a Freddie Mac REO and negotiated a 3% credit for closing costs.  My buyer will use those points to buy down the rate to 3.50% (maybe as low as 3.25%) on a 30-year fixed conforming loan.

When did the 3% credit for closing come enter the negotiations?  Do you write that in the initial offer or ask for it after opening escrow?
 

Previously (and likely again in the future) HomePath® properties for Fannie Mae were eligible for up to a 3.5% of the agreed purchase price with some eligibility requirements:
Eligibility
•Buyer incentive must be requested at the initial offer submission.
•Initial offer must be submitted on or after April 11, 2011 (the effective date of the incentive program).
•The property sale must close on or before June 30, 2011 . No exceptions will be made to this deadline.
•Owner occupants only. Buyers purchasing a HomePath property as their primary residence may receive up to 3.5% of the final sales price towards closing cost assistance (second homes and investment properties are excluded). Additionally, buyers must sign the Owner Occupant Certification Rider to the Real Estate Purchase Addendum (available on the HomePath Resources page on efanniemae.com).
•Retail and public entities are eligible for the incentive; however pool and auction sales are NOT eligible. In certain instances where the insurer will not permit it, the incentive will not be available.
•Fannie Mae reserves the right to remove any property from the promotion or end the promotion at any time. Any dispute over the payment of the incentive shall be resolved by Fannie Mae in its sole discretion.

Currently Freddy Mac is currently offering 3% to the buyers of its HomeSteps® properties, similarly.
Full disclosure: The agents are offered an additional $1000, as well.
No negotiating necessary.
http://www.homesteps.com/homebuyer/offers.html

DURATION OF OFFER: Offers received between November 15, 2011 and January 31, 2012 with escrow closed on or before March 15, 2012.

-IR2
Yup, it is a Freddie Mac REO but I ask for 3% credit for REOs because it's a different beast.  If you read the fine print, that $1,000 bonus for agents is not available for sales in California. They also offer a 2-year HomeProtect home warranty for buyers.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on December 15, 2011, 11:25:28 AM
When you buy a HomePath REO property and get the closing cost credit, FNMA does not pay "Owners Title" or some of the other fees you'd normally see a seller pay with a traditional sale. Because of this the 3.x concession you might get nets out to 2.x as some of that concession is used to pay the owners costs. If you're buying a HomePath or Home Steps property and are being offered a sales concession, try and ensure that it's for buyer charges only, not traditionally seller paid fees as well.

My .02c
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on December 15, 2011, 02:26:16 PM
When you buy a HomePath REO property and get the closing cost credit, FNMA does not pay "Owners Title" or some of the other fees you'd normally see a seller pay with a traditional sale. Because of this the 3.x concession you might get nets out to 2.x as some of that concession is used to pay the owners costs. If you're buying a HomePath or Home Steps property and are being offered a sales concession, try and ensure that it's for buyer charges only, not traditionally seller paid fees as well.

My .02c
Received and reviewed the contract addendum for my buyer, looks like as long as we go with the escrow company that the REO seller selects the REO seller will pay for the owner's title policy and their share of the escrow fees (similar to all other REO addendums that I've seen).  The REO seller even paid for the termite repairs.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on January 25, 2012, 10:44:21 AM
Looks like the Fed is on hold until at least late 2014.  10-year treasury bonds have responded by doing down 14bps.  I wouldn't be betting that rates are going up in the near term.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: IndieDev on January 25, 2012, 10:56:46 AM
Japan 2.10

Features added

- More dividend and income strategies
- Less chance of inflating out of debt
- More unemployment
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on January 25, 2012, 11:51:40 AM
That reduction in the 10 year (and corresponding dip in Mortgage Backed Securities) might be enough to cover the .50 to .875 increase in some lenders rates because of the Agency Guarantee Fees that are starting to fade into the market. Most FHA insured loans are now solidly below 3.75% but we might not see as great of a push down in rates for all of the Fannie/Freddie loan products out there.

Some companies are quoting 10-15 day rate locks (assuming you can close before all G-Fee increases). If you ask for 45 or 60 day locks you should see how high they've gone up in the past week.

My .02c
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: freedomcm on January 25, 2012, 06:32:59 PM
SGIP-

so the agency fee increase is going to affect the rates across the board?  not just FHA or less than 20% down, but the wide market?

TIA
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on January 26, 2012, 10:44:45 AM
The Agency Fee increase has been implemented by many lenders on longer term locked loans. Most 15 day closing rates aren't yet seeing the impact, but loans locked longer (45-60) have seen on average a .50 to as high as .875 increase in fee. That fee increase translates into .125 to .25 in rate. We are starting to see the Freddie Mac Weekly Survey of lender rates creep up a bit partly due to the market, but certainly due to the Guarantee Fee increases. That Weekly Survey will get slammed back down because of yesterdays FedSpeak about 2014 rates, but in the long run that blip down will be swallowed up by the higher fees lenders are passing along.

FHA insured mortgage rates aren't impacted, but FHA Monthly Mortgage Insurance is. Per HUD sometime in March the 30 year MMI plan should rise from 1.1 per month to 1.2 or more. It's the slow boil that cooks an unaware frog.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: IndieDev on January 31, 2012, 10:19:27 AM
Rates nudge even lower this week. Japan 2.0 it is.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on January 31, 2012, 10:24:49 AM
Rates nudge even lower this week. Japan 2.0 it is.
Yup, we are in a world of deleveraging for the near term so Japan 2.0 here we come.  I'll go out on a limb and say that the US 10-year bond yield will trade below 1.50% this year.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: rimrattler6 on February 01, 2012, 08:59:04 AM
I'm in a battle with BofA to get 4.00%, 0 points, no fees and a 60 day lock on a jumbo conforming...wish me luck! *puts on headgear and grabs sword*

I fully believe that 3.75 or 3.875 is not unreasonable for a 30 day lock though.....

SGIP is the man and helping me out!!! Major props to him!
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on February 01, 2012, 09:13:37 AM
I'm in a battle with BofA to get 4.00%, 0 points, no fees and a 60 day lock on a jumbo conforming...wish me luck! *puts on headgear and grabs sword*

I fully believe that 3.75 or 3.875 is not unreasonable for a 30 day lock though.....

SGIP is the man and helping me out!!! Major props to him!
Good luck with BofA...with my experience both their service and rates leave a lot to be desired.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: IndieDev on February 01, 2012, 09:57:34 AM
BofA is barely solvent. Their offered rates should be in the high 7s.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Liar Loan on February 01, 2012, 12:22:15 PM
BofA is barely solvent. Their offered rates should be in the high 7s.

I'm guessing most of their loans get shipped out these days.  The .gov is the only entity willing to hold long term paper at 4%.  BofA is fighting over the scraps of razor thin origination fees just like every other lender is.  (No-cost loans have the fees built into the rate.)  BofA has economies of scale and doesn't need to spend much on marketing relative to their size which gives them an edge.  Continued government bailouts are contingent on extending credit to the American people, otherwise I wouldn't be surprised if they exited residential mortgage completely to focus on credit cards.  Lots of money to be made there.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: freedomcm on February 02, 2012, 10:15:06 AM
3.50% with half a point!

At least on the interwebs.  Is it really possible to get that kind of rate today?

Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on February 02, 2012, 10:19:08 AM
3.50% with half a point!

At least on the interwebs.  Is it really possible to get that kind of rate today?


Sure it is as long as your middle FICO is 740+ and you have a DTI below 40-45% and put 25% or more down and have documentable income for the past 2+ years.  These are getting to where it's almost free to borrow money (when you take into account inflation).
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on February 02, 2012, 10:27:53 AM
Big banks, no. Smaller mortgage bankers (like where I'm at now...) depends on circumstance, but difficult. Interweb lenders? Case by Case. AIM loan showed 1.5 points today. Amerisave showed .375. Both lenders had their own fees running about $1,200 (processing / appraisal, etc)  with title and escrow being charged based  on their preferred referral partners.

As noted earlier, you've got to be extraordinarily clean (75% LTV, impounding, standard income) and must close in 30 days. That's a steal frankly. If you can lock and close it in that time line, great!

My .02c
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: IndieDev on February 02, 2012, 10:28:34 AM
These rates are the only reason rental parity even exist in certain OC cities. So if you have the down payment, even with the downward market pressure, buying now in certain areas actually can make sense. This hasn't been seen in a long time.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: rkp on February 02, 2012, 10:58:28 AM
These rates are the only reason rental parity even exist in certain OC cities. So if you have the down payment, even with the downward market pressure, buying now in certain areas actually can make sense. This hasn't been seen in a long time.

wow - didnt think i would read those kinds of words from you Indie.  what areas do you have in mind?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on February 02, 2012, 11:04:55 AM
These rates are the only reason rental parity even exist in certain OC cities. So if you have the down payment, even with the downward market pressure, buying now in certain areas actually can make sense. This hasn't been seen in a long time.

wow - didnt think i would read those kinds of words from you Indie.  what areas do you have in mind?
Just to name a few....Yorba Linda, Anaheim Hills, Orange, Aliso Viejo, RSM are a few.  There are properties that trade below rental parity in those cities too.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: IndieDev on February 02, 2012, 11:22:01 AM
These rates are the only reason rental parity even exist in certain OC cities. So if you have the down payment, even with the downward market pressure, buying now in certain areas actually can make sense. This hasn't been seen in a long time.

wow - didnt think i would read those kinds of words from you Indie.  what areas do you have in mind?

Yeah I know I'm sort of seen as a perma bear on this forum, but that's simply not the case. If I was I would not have just closed on a home in CDM.

That being said, I'm not saying there are great deals out there right now, because with the exception of short sale fraud, or a unicorn, the deals out there aren't great. There are some homes on the market that are simply priced fair when you compare the alternative (renting). I'd say USCTrojan's list makes the cut, I'd also add north and south Laguna Niguel, non-coastal areas of Dana Point, Foothill Ranch, and even some parts of Irvine (older Irvine). Ladera Ranch is getting close, but when you figure in their tax rate, MR, and HOA, Ladera has another 5% to go before it starts looking better. Mission Viejo is still too bubbly for some reason when compared to rents but even in that city there are communities at rental parity.

Places not their yet, but could be there in the next 12-24 months, just off the top of my head: Columbus Grove, Tustin Fields, any of the Woodbury communities, Quail Hill, Northpark, Northwood, and Tustin Ranch. If you are planning to buy in those communities, I'd say a solid no for right now.

Still there are some pie-in-the-sky knife catchers that put their homes on the market and sit for 6 months because they still think it's 2007, just let those guys sit, their homes will be REO inventory in 2013-2014.

The market is becoming more friendly towards buyers. I wouldn't say we've turned the corner yet, because if not for these artificially low rates rental parity would not exist.

So if you're buying simply for a place to live and not trying to build a profit driven rental empire, now isn't a horrible time, it might not be the best time, but it's not going to destroy you financially as long as your are realistic about what you can afford, and have the down payment (and reserves).
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: IndieDev on February 02, 2012, 11:43:42 AM
Just to add, there are communities that won't hit rental parity no matter how long you wait, and weren't even at rental parity before the bubble: Balboa Island, Balboa Peninsula, CDM, Newport Coast, Laguna Beach, Monarch Beach(Dana Point). Obviously low inventory, and being beach communities are the real price props there. Not saying prices in those communities won't come down, because they will, but I don't see rental parity being part of the discussion there.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeshopper on February 02, 2012, 12:06:58 PM
Should the rental parity of your new castle be in the range of $50,000/month?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: IndieDev on February 02, 2012, 12:17:14 PM
Does that include pool privileges? Seems a bit low too me if that's included.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeshopper on February 02, 2012, 12:27:51 PM
I totally agree the exclusivity of the pool should be an extra. The hammock between the 2 trees I think you should throw in as a constellation incentive. I hope you don't charge me extra for the Catalina view because you begin to sound like the local developer who nickel and dime the heck out of renters and home buyers. I think I just broke the cardinal rule by using the word rent or should I say lease. Because rent is for the lower class rip raffs while you and I are much higher class than the population living east of the 405.

BTW Johns Creek is also considered east of the 405.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: IndieDev on February 02, 2012, 12:53:30 PM
We should make a special exception for John's Creek.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeshopper on February 02, 2012, 01:22:04 PM
Yes, John's Creek is nice and the homes there compared to wasteland east of the 405 deserve a higher level of recognition.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Panda on February 02, 2012, 01:31:18 PM
Hey are you guys making fun of me? It is johns creek without the '
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeshopper on February 02, 2012, 01:42:26 PM
I was right the first time. The weather is just the same like irvine but how about your neighbors? Are they super nice just like irvine being friendly, talkative, out going and super nice.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: rkp on February 02, 2012, 01:58:49 PM
IHS -  Johns Creek doesnt have the Asian density of Irvine yet.  They are more like this right now:  http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/387860/little-tokyo
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: IndieDev on February 02, 2012, 02:34:15 PM
IHS -  Johns Creek doesnt have the Asian density of Irvine yet.  They are more like this right now:  http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/387860/little-tokyo

Nice.  :D
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: freedomcm on February 02, 2012, 09:35:56 PM
Not to turn the conversation away from the wonders of rental parity in various locales, but:

Is 75%, not 80%, really the new black (i.e. needed for the best rates)?  is that for refi's, or purchase monies too?

Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on February 02, 2012, 10:23:25 PM
Not to turn the conversation away from the wonders of rental parity in various locales, but:

Is 75%, not 80%, really the new black (i.e. needed for the best rates)?  is that for refi's, or purchase monies too?


For detached SFRs, you get hit it a .25% fee if put less than 25% down.  You get hit with that same fee plus a .75% fee if you put less than 25% on a condo.  I believe this covers both purchase money loans and refi's, but I'll let SPIG confirm.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on February 03, 2012, 10:22:57 AM
SPIG - Spider Pig? D'oh!

25% down is the breaking point for most Fannie / Freddie Loan Level Price Adjustment hits. Yes, although you've got a 850 FICO score and 20% equity, the Agencies will increase your fees by .25 for having a FICO over 740. Counterintuitive, but what do you expect from this bunch!

My .02c

SGIP
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on February 03, 2012, 10:33:43 AM
So how easy is it to refi with Provident?

I've been getting calls from my current lender (Wells) to refi (we just refi'ed last at the end of 2010) and I'm wondering if it's easier to go with my current lender or switching.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on February 03, 2012, 11:15:35 AM
So how easy is it to refi with Provident?

I've been getting calls from my current lender (Wells) to refi (we just refi'ed last at the end of 2010) and I'm wondering if it's easier to go with my current lender or switching.
From what my buyers told me, Provident is one of the most conservative and strict lenders out there.  That being said, they have one of the best rates out there.  If you are a W-2ed person with a high credit score and nothing crazy going on with your tax returns, it should be no problem with them.  Big bank interest rates aren't the best (Wells, BofA, Chase, etc).
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on February 03, 2012, 11:16:12 AM
SPIG - Spider Pig? D'oh!

25% down is the breaking point for most Fannie / Freddie Loan Level Price Adjustment hits. Yes, although you've got a 850 FICO score and 20% equity, the Agencies will increase your fees by .25 for having a FICO over 740. Counterintuitive, but what do you expect from this bunch!

My .02c

SGIP
Opps, fat finger post. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: IrvineRealtor on February 03, 2012, 12:38:23 PM
So how easy is it to refi with Provident?

I've been getting calls from my current lender (Wells) to refi (we just refi'ed last at the end of 2010) and I'm wondering if it's easier to go with my current lender or switching.

There are (at least) two different Providents out there... which one are you talking about?
Neither has been good, but one has been downright evil, from my experience.

I'd recommend giving Spiderpig a call.

A plug from a recent assist that he helped with:
He performed very well to salvage a short sale buyer's deal, on an extremely short time window, and in spite of Snoopy's designs to pull the rug out from under him while we were in the middle of our transaction. 

The home was in very good condition and the buyer got the home at a $70K discount (relative to another identical floorplan that closed ~one month previously) due in large part to John's ability to get it done.

-IrvineRealtor
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: zovall on February 03, 2012, 01:54:25 PM
So how easy is it to refi with Provident?

I've been getting calls from my current lender (Wells) to refi (we just refi'ed last at the end of 2010) and I'm wondering if it's easier to go with my current lender or switching.

I had a positive experience with Provident.  I refi'd earlier last year and then Provident became my new lender.  Then in Dec, I took the opportunity to refi again (3.875% zero cost) and I did it all through Provident's website (www.provident.com).  The process wasn't too bad at all.  Their website told me exactly what the status of my loan application was and what documentation they were waiting for.  They are real sticklers with documentation (the notaries both times mentioned that to me).  It may have been easier when I refi'd this time since they were my current lender at the time.  Their rates have been some of the best I've seen.  I wouldn't hesitate to refi again with them. 

I'd also recommend contacting SGIP and at least one more lender.  It is always a good idea to get quotes from a few places before making any decisions.

Disclosure: I have no relationship with Provident other than that they debit my bank account each month for my mortgage payment.  I am in the process of working with SGIP and the company he works for, Intercap Lending,  to become sponsors of IHB/TI.


Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on February 03, 2012, 02:10:33 PM
I'd recommend giving Spiderpig a call.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Panda on February 03, 2012, 06:08:58 PM
Anyone here successfully re-fi with 3.75% no fees for a 30 yr fixed? I am assuming that lenders are being more careful.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on February 04, 2012, 08:59:17 AM
I used provident as well for my mortgage... they do service their own loans.. impounds are required but can be dissolved after 2 months of payment, this was what the broker told me and it was true.. just have to fax over to them in writing to cancel escrow account...

Their website is a bit clumsy, not as streamline as citi nor bofa (i.e. setting up auto debit is under the "Forms" tab, huh?)

Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: TSW on February 04, 2012, 11:36:00 PM
I recently worked with Provident on my condo in Woodbury East and the experience was mixed.  Their offer is above average.  The process is streamlined and the agent is responsive (although less motivated but I have no problem with that considering they are low cost).

But finally it did not go through becasue of some odd fineprints.  Basically, they require the condo project to be 100% built out and the HOA passed control to home owners.  That says, if you are in those new IVC communities like Woodbury, Woodbury East, etc., you don't have to waste time with Provident.

I am looking for another loan agent.  Would be great if you have any recommendations.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on February 04, 2012, 11:45:32 PM
I recently worked with Provident on my condo in Woodbury East and the experience was mixed.  Their offer is above average.  The process is streamlined and the agent is responsive (although less motivated but I have no problem with that considering they are lost cost).

But finally it did not go through becasue of some odd fineprints.  Basically, they require the condo project to be 100% built out and the HOA passed control to home owners.  That says, if you are in those new IVC communities like Woodbury, Woodbury East, etc., you don't have to waste time with Provident.

I am looking for another loan agent.  Would be great if you have any recommendations.

One of my buyers ran into the same issue trying to refi his Woodbury condo built by The New Home Company going with Amerisave.  So it's not a lender specific thing.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: rkp on February 05, 2012, 11:07:05 AM
wouldnt a smart builder already have this taken care of by partnering with a few lenders?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: TSW on February 05, 2012, 10:33:20 PM
I recently worked with Provident on my condo in Woodbury East and the experience was mixed.  Their offer is above average.  The process is streamlined and the agent is responsive (although less motivated but I have no problem with that considering they are low cost).

But finally it did not go through becasue of some odd fineprints.  Basically, they require the condo project to be 100% built out and the HOA passed control to home owners.  That says, if you are in those new IVC communities like Woodbury, Woodbury East, etc., you don't have to waste time with Provident.

I am looking for another loan agent.  Would be great if you have any recommendations.

One of my buyers ran into the same issue trying to refi his Woodbury condo built by The New Home Company going with Amerisave.  So it's not a lender specific thing.

Is there anybody in WB/WBE got approved for refinancing recently?  If so, who is the lender?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: LAtoOC on February 06, 2012, 11:55:47 AM
Dangers of Japan 2.0....

http://www.pimco.com/EN/Insights/Pages/Zero-Based-Money-Risks-Trapping-Recovery.aspx

Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Compressed-Village on February 07, 2012, 10:06:36 PM
I have a rate quote from Provident for 15 years @ 3.25 with credit of $1900 toward closing cost, so out of pocket only 500 dollars. I thought that this is was a pretty good deal. When I locked in my rate my paper work then get forward to a loan officer. The usual paper requested. W2 for two years, 1 month worth of pay stubs and banking and investment portfolios are requested. I have been refi before and this is my 6 times. This time Provident requested form Signed Tax Form 4506-T, Request for Copy of Transcript of Tax Form. This will essentially allow the lender to pull your tax return for the last 3 years or more. Every deduction and lines items on your tax can be view by an unknown and uncontrollable numbers of people.

I felt really uncomfortable with this. None of my previous refi in the past has ever ask for this type of document before. And my last refi was 15 months ago.

Does anyone here when refi have to sign and agree to form 4506-T with Provident or other lenders.

Please respond if you refi recently.

Thanks
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: zovall on February 08, 2012, 07:02:20 AM
Does anyone here when refi have to sign and agree to form 4506-T with Provident or other lenders.

I just finished a refi with Provident a couple weeks ago and we also had to sign form 4506-T. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Panda on February 08, 2012, 07:14:03 AM
Irvinebullhousing,

I am going through a re-finance now and i had to sign it too.

I have a rate quote from Provident for 15 years @ 3.25 with credit of $1900 toward closing cost, so out of pocket only 500 dollars. I thought that this is was a pretty good deal. When I locked in my rate my paper work then get forward to a loan officer. The usual paper requested. W2 for two years, 1 month worth of pay stubs and banking and investment portfolios are requested. I have been refi before and this is my 6 times. This time Provident requested form Signed Tax Form 4506-T, Request for Copy of Transcript of Tax Form. This will essentially allow the lender to pull your tax return for the last 3 years or more. Every deduction and lines items on your tax can be view by an unknown and uncontrollable numbers of people.

I felt really uncomfortable with this. None of my previous refi in the past has ever ask for this type of document before. And my last refi was 15 months ago.

Does anyone here when refi have to sign and agree to form 4506-T with Provident or other lenders.

Please respond if you refi recently.

Thanks

Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on February 08, 2012, 07:52:22 AM
What can they do with your old tax returns?  They already have all your info... what would you try to protect?  They are protecting their money and being conservative... better this route then the previous stated income.. you know what happened with that
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Homer_Simpson on February 08, 2012, 08:34:14 AM
My cousin refi'd last Friday 2.875% 15 Years, forgot to ask if he paid any points but I'm really thinking he didn't. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Panda on February 08, 2012, 08:58:30 AM
What are the current rates right now? Can you refi a 30 year at 3.75% with no fees if you were to lock today?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on February 08, 2012, 09:22:25 AM
What are the current rates right now? Can you refi a 30 year at 3.75% with no fees if you were to lock today?
Closer to 3.875% with 0pts today...you missed the window on 3.75% at 0pts.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Panda on February 08, 2012, 09:25:47 AM
Trojan, how small was that window where you can lock 3.75% with no fees?

What are the current rates right now? Can you refi a 30 year at 3.75% with no fees if you were to lock today?
Closer to 3.875% with 0pts today...you missed the window on 3.75% at 0pts.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on February 08, 2012, 09:26:42 AM
There's not enough information in your post to answer with any certainty. Rates are influenced by type of transaction, loan to value, FICO score, property type, etc.

I usually ping Amerisave to see what most InterWeb lenders are offering. Their interface is the fastest. Under this scenario:

"200k loan, $500k price, California property, no cash out refinance, 800 FICO, impounds" - Yes.

Under this scenario:

"$200k loan, $500k price, California property, no cash out refinance, 740 FICO, no impounds" - No.

Or even this scenario

$400k loan, $500k price, Georgia property, no cash out refinnace, 761 FICO, no impounds, - No.

So it all depends on the complete circumstance and structure. I'm working with someone who called Amerisave and got a 3.75% quote.... which was great, until the property was disclosed as a log cabin (Trabuco canyon), on a septic system with a dirt road driveway. The rate because of the unusual property is really going to be in the low 4's, not the lowest rate, but a deliverable one.

My .02c
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on February 08, 2012, 09:28:25 AM
I think that window will be opening and closing for a while... who said rates were going to skyrocket back in 08?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on February 08, 2012, 09:31:46 AM
Trojan, how small was that window where you can lock 3.75% with no fees?

What are the current rates right now? Can you refi a 30 year at 3.75% with no fees if you were to lock today?
Closer to 3.875% with 0pts today...you missed the window on 3.75% at 0pts.
about 2-3 weeks.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Panda on February 08, 2012, 09:43:53 AM
Darn!..... :(

Trojan, how small was that window where you can lock 3.75% with no fees?

What are the current rates right now? Can you refi a 30 year at 3.75% with no fees if you were to lock today?
Closer to 3.875% with 0pts today...you missed the window on 3.75% at 0pts.
about 2-3 weeks.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Compressed-Village on February 08, 2012, 09:49:52 AM
Thanks Panda, I suppose you are not using Provident then correct. Seem like this is the industry standard when getting a home loan nowaday. One thing that Provident did mentioned is that the loan will be sold to FannieMae so this is required from them. Everything is double check by each institution. Another thing is when I refi with Navy Fed Credit Union, I did not have to sign this documents. Navy Fed does not resale the loan to Fannie they own the life of the loan on their book.

Another point that the loan processing officer from Provident added is that Fannie Mae underwriting system is going thru a change and that will take effect Feb 9. This change will have a higher cost and the lender/broker will pass this on to the consumer as result in a slightly higher rate going forward?

SIGP and USCTrojan is this true or anyone that is expert in the subject matter can chime in.



Irvinebullhousing,

I am going through a re-finance now and i had to sign it too.

I have a rate quote from Provident for 15 years @ 3.25 with credit of $1900 toward closing cost, so out of pocket only 500 dollars. I thought that this is was a pretty good deal. When I locked in my rate my paper work then get forward to a loan officer. The usual paper requested. W2 for two years, 1 month worth of pay stubs and banking and investment portfolios are requested. I have been refi before and this is my 6 times. This time Provident requested form Signed Tax Form 4506-T, Request for Copy of Transcript of Tax Form. This will essentially allow the lender to pull your tax return for the last 3 years or more. Every deduction and lines items on your tax can be view by an unknown and uncontrollable numbers of people.

I felt really uncomfortable with this. None of my previous refi in the past has ever ask for this type of document before. And my last refi was 15 months ago.

Does anyone here when refi have to sign and agree to form 4506-T with Provident or other lenders.

Please respond if you refi recently.

Thanks

Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on February 08, 2012, 11:05:54 AM
The 4506-T depends on the loan's investor. Fannie, Freddie, Ginnie (VA/FHA), and even some private portfolio lenders will require the 4506-T to be executed. Some credit unions don't have it signed, but many CU's sell their loans to the Agencies. It's hit or miss.

Fannie isn't changing DU until March 17th, when the HARP Refinance V. 2.0 rolls out. This Loan Officer is likely talking about when Provident is going to be hitting customers with the higher Fannie / Freddie Guarantee fees mandated by Congress when they extended the payroll tax cut.

My .02c
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on February 08, 2012, 11:43:50 AM
The 4506-T depends on the loan's investor. Fannie, Freddie, Ginnie (VA/FHA), and even some private portfolio lenders will require the 4506-T to be executed. Some credit unions don't have it signed, but many CU's sell their loans to the Agencies. It's hit or miss.

Fannie isn't changing DU until March 17th, when the HARP Refinance V. 2.0 rolls out. This Loan Officer is likely talking about when Provident is going to be hitting customers with the higher Fannie / Freddie Guarantee fees mandated by Congress when they extended the payroll tax cut.

My .02c

So give with one hand and take away with the other huh?  Nice tax hike for the middle class/homebuyer...
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: The California Court Company on February 08, 2012, 11:56:59 AM
for new home constructions, any lenders other than Wells Fargo/BoA that can be used? don't want to be ripped off by these TBTF banks

I recently worked with Provident on my condo in Woodbury East and the experience was mixed.  Their offer is above average.  The process is streamlined and the agent is responsive (although less motivated but I have no problem with that considering they are low cost).

But finally it did not go through becasue of some odd fineprints.  Basically, they require the condo project to be 100% built out and the HOA passed control to home owners.  That says, if you are in those new IVC communities like Woodbury, Woodbury East, etc., you don't have to waste time with Provident.

I am looking for another loan agent.  Would be great if you have any recommendations.

One of my buyers ran into the same issue trying to refi his Woodbury condo built by The New Home Company going with Amerisave.  So it's not a lender specific thing.

Is there anybody in WB/WBE got approved for refinancing recently?  If so, who is the lender?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on February 08, 2012, 01:04:30 PM
You can but here's how it goes down:

Buyer - nice home, I'll take it.  ;D

Seller - OK. Here's the $500,000 price PLUS $4,000 for your design center IF you use our in house lender.  ;)

IHL - Hi Mr. and Ms. Buyer. Today's rate is 4.750 for 1.0 point  ???  :-X

Buyer - AYE CARAMBA! Not only are the design center prices redonkulous, but your rate is terrible. I'm calling someone else.  >:(

Other Lender - Hi Mr. and Ms. Buyer. Today's rate is 4.250 for -0- points.  ;D

Buyer - I'll tell the IHL about the great deal I'm getting.  :)

IHL - About that earlier quote of ours. Now we're at 4.25%, but I can't match the -0- points. You're getting a $4,000 design center credit which is like getting a 1.0 point credit, isnt' it?  :-X

Seller - You're going to use an outside lender? They don't close on time. We don't know if they're any good, you'll have to sign all these waivers, and if you use them we'll yank your $4,000 credit in the design center.  ;)


The long and the short of it is this: Yes, you can use another lender. You may have to give up some concessions, most of which were phantom to begin with. Every purchase contract, just like every home that a builder builds, is going to be a bit different than the scenario above, but I'm sure this dialogue will sound pretty familiar with anyone whose purchased new construction recently. In the end, you will likely get a better loan, but the margin between the builders deal and what you can get on the outside once all of the bells and whistles are added up isn't that huge of a difference.

My .02c

Soylent Green Is People
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: rimrattler6 on February 08, 2012, 05:21:07 PM
You can but here's how it goes down:

Buyer - nice home, I'll take it.  ;D

Seller - OK. Here's the $500,000 price PLUS $4,000 for your design center IF you use our in house lender.  ;)

IHL - Hi Mr. and Ms. Buyer. Today's rate is 4.750 for 1.0 point  ???  :-X

Buyer - AYE CARAMBA! Not only are the design center prices redonkulous, but your rate is terrible. I'm calling someone else.  >:(

Other Lender - Hi Mr. and Ms. Buyer. Today's rate is 4.250 for -0- points.  ;D

Buyer - I'll tell the IHL about the great deal I'm getting.  :)

IHL - About that earlier quote of ours. Now we're at 4.25%, but I can't match the -0- points. You're getting a $4,000 design center credit which is like getting a 1.0 point credit, isnt' it?  :-X

Seller - You're going to use an outside lender? They don't close on time. We don't know if they're any good, you'll have to sign all these waivers, and if you use them we'll yank your $4,000 credit in the design center.  ;)


The long and the short of it is this: Yes, you can use another lender. You may have to give up some concessions, most of which were phantom to begin with. Every purchase contract, just like every home that a builder builds, is going to be a bit different than the scenario above, but I'm sure this dialogue will sound pretty familiar with anyone whose purchased new construction recently. In the end, you will likely get a better loan, but the margin between the builders deal and what you can get on the outside once all of the bells and whistles are added up isn't that huge of a difference.

My .02c

Soylent Green Is People


For a second there, I thought you were talking about my cluster of a situation with BofA...ugh!
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on February 09, 2012, 06:13:40 AM
Ask USCTrojan or anyone else who bought  new construction  lately. It's the same narrative no matter the builder.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on February 11, 2012, 11:22:26 PM
Ask USCTrojan or anyone else who bought  new construction  lately. It's the same narrative no matter the builder.
You nailed it just about word for word....the phrase "after talking to my manager" it optional as it sometimes gets thrown in before "now we're at....."
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on March 05, 2012, 04:27:41 PM
So one of the brokers I've been working on refi quotes with just used the "hurry before rates go up" thing on me.

He thinks rates will be 6% by end of year... I can't see that happening considering what the Fed said they wanted to do until 2014.

What do you guys think?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on March 05, 2012, 04:31:44 PM
So one of the brokers I've been working on refi quotes with just used the "hurry before rates go up" thing on me.

He thinks rates will be 6% by end of year... I can't see that happening considering what the Fed said they wanted to do until 2014.

What do you guys think?
Just remember who is telling you that rates are going to 6% by the end of the year, if he has a financial incentive to spin it then you he is trying to push you to refi NOW.  You should have asked him what his justification was for rates going up 2% in 10 months is.  I would argue that real estate prices will take a big hit if rates go up that high, that fast.  It sounds very familiar to BUY NO OR BE PRICED OUT FOREVER.  Sounds like you should be working with someone else.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on March 05, 2012, 04:35:04 PM
Sorry... I phrased that wrong... I should have wrote "What do you guys think of that?"... as in -- I couldn't believe he pulled that on me.

During an election year... I don't think rising interest rates is what the Prez wants anyways... I just thought it was funny that he said that.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on March 05, 2012, 04:41:28 PM
Sorry... I phrased that wrong... I should have wrote "What do you guys think of that?"... as in -- I couldn't believe he pulled that on me.

During an election year... I don't think rising interest rates is what the Prez wants anyways... I just thought it was funny that he said that.
Not surprised here, there's a lot of mortgards out there too.  You should bet him that rates won't go even past 5% this year.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on March 05, 2012, 04:55:48 PM
IHO - just curious, lets say you just saw a house in irvine you loved and for 700K and submitted a full price offer and rates went up 2% before you could lock your rate. What would you do? Just play along, i know that scenario is unlikely.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on March 05, 2012, 05:00:22 PM
IHO - just curious, lets say you just saw a house in irvine you loved and for 700K and submitted a full price offer and rates went up 2% before you could lock your rate. What would you do? Just play along, i know that scenario is unlikely.
It depends... I actually think because we keep lowering our buy price range... we may still be able to afford a 2% rate increase (need to crunch the numbers for sure).

If it's not affordable... we get out. Disclaimer: The Mrs. may have a different answer altogether... depending on how much "love" we are talking here ("Hey dear... I... uh...  found more money in my rainy day shopping fund").
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on March 05, 2012, 05:12:39 PM
IHO - just curious, lets say you just saw a house in irvine you loved and for 700K and submitted a full price offer and rates went up 2% before you could lock your rate. What would you do? Just play along, i know that scenario is unlikely.
It depends... I actually think because we keep lowering our buy price range... we may still be able to afford a 2% rate increase (need to crunch the numbers for sure).

If it's not affordable... we get out. Disclaimer: The Mrs. may have a different answer altogether... depending on how much "love" we are talking here ("Hey dear... I... uh...  found more money in my rainy day shopping fund").

havent crunched the numbers but a 2% increase on a 700K purchase would add about 600-700 month. you would be a better man than i am for sticking with it.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on March 05, 2012, 05:18:28 PM
Not necessarily a better man... if the buy price was at the top of our range... we would have to walk because the lender wouldn't qualify us... heh.

It's not like the bubble days where the bank would massage the ratios for you.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on March 06, 2012, 09:19:03 AM
1) Mortgage rates rise during election years just as often as they stay the same or decline. Elections have zero impact on mortgage rates relative to market forces.

2) "Hurry up...." puh-leez. As USCT said, mortgage rates would really have to go in the can to crest over 5%. With gas rising, so might inflation (bad for rates). $120 to fill up your tank each week will retard mortgage growth (good for rates), and Europe is still on fire (good for rates). Time, as the song goes, is on your side. Yes it is.

3) Gubmint intervention. With FHA MIP and MMI increasing on 4/1, this may decrease home sales in our area given the nature of buyers we're seeing out there. Fewer sales, might lead to price stability even with very limited inventory.... which in turn might mean more Gubmint intervention in housing.

It's going to be a wild ride in 2012, but higher rates and sales prices? Not from what my Magic 8 Ball is telling me.

My .02c


Soylent Green Is People
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: WoodburyDad on March 06, 2012, 10:33:09 AM
Sorry... I phrased that wrong... I should have wrote "What do you guys think of that?"... as in -- I couldn't believe he pulled that on me.

During an election year... I don't think rising interest rates is what the Prez wants anyways... I just thought it was funny that he said that.

The current policy of a low, non-existent interest rate environment will continue.
Everything possible will be done between now and November to get the President re-elected.
A tremendous amount of dollars are being pumped into banks both here and in Europe (via swaps). 
Allowing the banks to clear the toxic waste from their balance sheets
It wouldn't surprise me to see rates drop even lower.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on April 18, 2012, 08:25:12 AM
hmmmm.. time for another refi?  noticed some brokers offering conforming 5/1 ARM at 2.5% with enough credit to cover all fees...
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: zubs on April 18, 2012, 11:18:55 AM
Can someone refute this argument:

Interest rates will never go up again.  It will stay flat to declining forever.  The reason is because of the US governments own debt.  US debt is so high now that any increase in interest rates will cause the servicing of US debt to become unmanageable.  Therefore interest rates will never go up again.

Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: IrvineRealtor on April 18, 2012, 11:53:26 AM
Can someone refute this argument:

Interest rates will never go up again.  It will stay flat to declining forever.  The reason is because of the US governments own debt.  US debt is so high now that any increase in interest rates will cause the servicing of US debt to become unmanageable.  Therefore interest rates will never go up again.

Yes. I refute the premise that an increase of interest will cause the debt servicing to "become" unmanageable.

I counterpropose that it already IS unmanageable.

Eventually, because of the high amount of existing debt, the popular belief (aka, the marketplace) will have no confidence that new or existing debts will be able to be paid. Interest rates will soar at that time, as they have in the past because whoever needs it, will pay through the nose to get it.
-IR2

"It's like a carousel. You put the quarter in, you get on the horse, it goes up and down, and around. Circular, circle. Feel it. Go with the flow." - Gary Potter
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on April 18, 2012, 12:04:37 PM
Can someone refute this argument:

Interest rates will never go up again.  It will stay flat to declining forever.  The reason is because of the US governments own debt.  US debt is so high now that any increase in interest rates will cause the servicing of US debt to become unmanageable.  Therefore interest rates will never go up again.


Interest rates will go up eventually, when and by how much are the big questions that no one knows.  Remember, the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay liquid/solvent. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: WoodburyDad on April 18, 2012, 12:23:16 PM
Can someone refute this argument:

Interest rates will never go up again.  It will stay flat to declining forever.  The reason is because of the US governments own debt.  US debt is so high now that any increase in interest rates will cause the servicing of US debt to become unmanageable.  Therefore interest rates will never go up again.


Interest rates will go up eventually, when and by how much are the big questions that no one knows.  Remember, the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay liquid/solvent.

That’s correct.
They are attempting to keep rates low by selling the short end and buying the long end, known as Operation Twist.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: zubs on April 18, 2012, 12:33:47 PM
So our government will try to keep interest rates down for as long as they can, but in the end they will not be able to contain it from exploding upwards.

So the big question is:
How long can the Bernanke hold down interest rates?
~Apparently he's running out of tools as every 500 billion dollars he QEs, has less and less of an effect.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: IndieDev on April 18, 2012, 02:06:25 PM
Ben is a suicidal dickhead.

He'll keep printing until the banks become solvent again (in 40-50 years), or society collapses under hyper inflation, and you can't buy a loaf of bread for $500,000,000 U.S. By then some starving mob will probably have eaten Ben, starting at his feet.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on April 18, 2012, 02:33:13 PM
Ben is a suicidal dickhead.

He'll keep printing until the banks become solvent again (in 40-50 years), or society collapses under hyper inflation, and you can't buy a loaf of bread for $500,000,000 U.S. By then some starving mob will probably have eaten Ben, starting at his feet.
But how do we get to hyperinflation when we still have trillions in realized bank losses?   My understanding is that defaults are a deflationary force and they bring the velocity of money down to a trickle.  The FED is basically propping up a lot of insolvent banks until they become solvent (could take a decade or more).  So once the losses have been through the system, then I think the velocity of money will increase and inflation with it.  Look how long Japan's rates have been low, we are going into the third decade and their debt is a lot higher than ours.  It's a sucker's game to try to predict when and by how much rates will increase.   Heck, they can even go lower than they already are.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: IndieDev on April 18, 2012, 02:38:22 PM
I think Japan will be much safer. In general, Japanese treasure dignity and respect as a cultural norm. So at least they will ask you politely before they attempt to disembowel you to feed their starving cannibal family.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: zubs on May 07, 2012, 11:31:09 AM
Bernanke says we will have low interest rates until at least 2014.
The US will collapse if interest move too far up.
Therefore, interest will never go up again if the government can help it.

Collapse definition
1. Run on banks
2. Empty shelves at the market
3. Unable to get paid by employer
4. CC stop working

I don't think the world wants a collapse, and we may not be able to stop it, but we will throw everything we have to prevent it until it actually happens...possibly 10+ years, but 10 years predictions are BS so, gotta keep looking at it to see where we @.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on May 07, 2012, 11:33:19 AM

Bernanke says we will have low interest rates until at least 2014.
The US will collapse if interest move too far up.
Therefore, interest will never go up again if the government can help it.

Collapse definition
1. Run on banks
2. Empty shelves at the market
3. Unable to get paid by employer
4. CC stop working

I don't think the world wants a collapse, and we may not be able to stop it, but we will throw everything we have to prevent it until it actually happens...possibly 10+ years ...will need to reassess every 3 years.
In the meanwhile, I think I'll refi a few of my properties.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: zubs on May 07, 2012, 11:35:23 AM
I was thinking that ARMS are a great deal now...if you believe in the theory above....high interest rates = US collapse.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on May 07, 2012, 11:38:11 AM
I was thinking that ARMS are a great deal now...if you believe in the theory above....high interest rates = US collapse.
I'm right there with you....BLUE HORSESHOE LOVES 7/1 ARM around 2.625%.  :D
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: rkp on May 07, 2012, 11:58:23 AM
uscT - have you updated your ARM analysis spreadsheet?  we always assumed we would get a 30 year fixed but now considering the 7/1 ARM. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on May 07, 2012, 01:43:02 PM
uscT - have you updated your ARM analysis spreadsheet?  we always assumed we would get a 30 year fixed but now considering the 7/1 ARM. 
I really should since rates have come down a good bit since I posted it.  Give me a few days and I'll get it updated for the current rates.  First i need to post the thread about my home.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Homer_Simpson on May 07, 2012, 02:17:24 PM
uscT - have you updated your ARM analysis spreadsheet?  we always assumed we would get a 30 year fixed but now considering the 7/1 ARM. 
I really should since rates have come down a good bit since I posted it.  Give me a few days and I'll get it updated for the current rates.  First i need to post the thread about my home.

Can't wait!! thanks Martin  8)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on May 07, 2012, 02:41:10 PM
uscT - have you updated your ARM analysis spreadsheet?  we always assumed we would get a 30 year fixed but now considering the 7/1 ARM. 
I really should since rates have come down a good bit since I posted it.  Give me a few days and I'll get it updated for the current rates.  First i need to post the thread about my home.

Can't wait!! thanks Martin  8)
Got the pool & spa up to speed last week so I'll include a before and after picture of that as well.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 07, 2012, 02:52:03 PM
Some questions you may want to answer in your House Hunters post:

1. So was a pool home one of your criteria?
2. What made you choose the neighborhood you bought in?
3. What other factors were buy/don't buy criteria?
4. Why didn't you buy in Santa Ana and just send your kids to private school? (<--- kidding... I know you don't have kids)
5. Why did you buy now?

I probably have more but will ask when your epic thread has been posted.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on May 14, 2012, 10:43:01 AM
We are slowing grinding down towards 3.50% at no cost on the 30-year fixed. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on May 14, 2012, 12:29:37 PM
Some, but not all rates are improving. From a daily Email I get on the mortgage market:


"Agency mortgage-backed security prices are on the moon: at the close on Friday Fannie, Freddie, and Ginnie 3.5% securities closed at roughly 104, 103.875, and 105.5, respectively. For the sake of simplicity, let's say those are the prices of 4% 30-yr mortgages. Are borrowers seeing those rates at those prices? Of course not - a four point premium for a 4% conventional loan or five points for a FHA/VA, even when you throw in the value of servicing? Companies have too much overhead now to pass all that along, of course, too much buy back risk, too many reserves to set aside, too much whatever, and on top of that, many lenders are at capacity - they don't have to!"[/b]

Emphasis mine.

If 3.5% for -0- fee comes on the radar, as it did in 2010 and 2011, it existed for only 2-3 days. It was followed by a pretty sharp rebound in rates above 4.0%.

With all of the HARP v 2.0 (and HARP 3.0 coming) Mortgage Backed Securities buyers are not going to invest in something that doesn't have an extended shelf life. That's a small part of the reason why we're not seeing rates back down into the mid 3's.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: rkp on May 14, 2012, 01:24:33 PM
so if a great rate does hit the market for a few days, is there any way to get a loan without a house?  we want a house in the next 6 months.  i know locks exist but not sure on the cost and how it works.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on May 14, 2012, 02:28:00 PM
so if a great rate does hit the market for a few days, is there any way to get a loan without a house?  we want a house in the next 6 months.  i know locks exist but not sure on the cost and how it works.
Gotta get into escrow first then you can pay for a forward lock.  The longer the lock period, the greater the cost.  That being said, with Europe having some major heartburn right now I don't think rates will rise that much in the next several months.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: woodburyowner on May 16, 2012, 09:47:06 AM
If 3.5% for -0- fee comes on the radar, as it did in 2010 and 2011, it existed for only 2-3 days. It was followed by a pretty sharp rebound in rates above 4.0%.

I didn't even realize that the 3.5% rate was available for a few days in 2010 and 2011.  What would be the best way to get this rate when it hits?  Should I get prequalified now and have my paperwork on file at a lender so they can pull the trigger when the rate bounces down for a day or two?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: SoCal on May 16, 2012, 10:20:21 AM
The notary was at my place last night. Had a Refi Party.  Raised the roof! :) For right now, I still prefer a 30 year fixed so I did a no-cost 3.875% with SGIP. My second time working with him. He also did my purchase loan 9 months ago. Great guy. As usual, I'll be keeping him on speed-dial for any future deals. Also, big thanks to my walking-almanac buddy, Zovall, for giving me impartial & helpful tips on what to look for in a refi. Believe it or not, I'm a newborn baby when it comes to doing a refi. Both men took great care of me.  :)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: rkp on May 16, 2012, 10:25:49 AM
what is the downside to refi in 9 months or multiple refis in short periods of time?  i have friends who have refi'd 5 years into their loan and while they are saving on their monthly, they tacked on 5 years more to their mortgage payoff date so are they really saving?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on May 16, 2012, 11:05:11 AM
what is the downside to refi in 9 months or multiple refis in short periods of time?  i have friends who have refi'd 5 years into their loan and while they are saving on their monthly, they tacked on 5 years more to their mortgage payoff date so are they really saving?
No downside of refi'ing as long as the cost of the previous refi's were covered by the monthly savings.  They can always increase their mortgage payment to what is was before and pay off the home in less than 25 years.  Yeah the loan get's re-set back to 30 years but the interest rate is reduced, you just have to do the math.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on May 16, 2012, 11:11:09 AM
The low price leaders for refi's out there seem to be Provident and Amerisave.  There is a price to be paid for their super low rates....you will be probed (you better be a clean borrower) and their service is a hit or miss.  Basically just passing on what some of my previous buyers told me.  A few of them told me that would NEVER use Amerisave for a purchase because they can take their sweet time.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Cubic Zirconia on May 16, 2012, 11:11:30 AM
If 3.5% for -0- fee comes on the radar, as it did in 2010 and 2011, it existed for only 2-3 days. It was followed by a pretty sharp rebound in rates above 4.0%.

I didn't even realize that the 3.5% rate was available for a few days in 2010 and 2011.  What would be the best way to get this rate when it hits?  Should I get prequalified now and have my paperwork on file at a lender so they can pull the trigger when the rate bounces down for a day or two?

For starters, take the call when your lender calls, and act immediately :-) SGIP called us, but we didn't act fast enough!
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: morekaos on May 16, 2012, 11:19:54 AM
Can someone refute this argument:

Interest rates will never go up again.  It will stay flat to declining forever.  The reason is because of the US governments own debt.  US debt is so high now that any increase in interest rates will cause the servicing of US debt to become unmanageable.  Therefore interest rates will never go up again.


Interest rates will go up eventually, when and by how much are the big questions that no one knows.  Remember, the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay liquid/solvent.

That’s correct.
They are attempting to keep rates low by selling the short end and buying the long end, known as Operation Twist.


Someone else got caught holding the bag with that very same strategy.  His name was Robert Citroen
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on May 16, 2012, 11:28:37 AM
Can someone refute this argument:

Interest rates will never go up again.  It will stay flat to declining forever.  The reason is because of the US governments own debt.  US debt is so high now that any increase in interest rates will cause the servicing of US debt to become unmanageable.  Therefore interest rates will never go up again.


Interest rates will go up eventually, when and by how much are the big questions that no one knows.  Remember, the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay liquid/solvent.

That’s correct.
They are attempting to keep rates low by selling the short end and buying the long end, known as Operation Twist.


Someone else got caught holding the bag with that very same strategy.  His name was Robert Citroen
Another saying I live by....DON'T FIGHT THE TAPE!
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: woodburyowner on May 16, 2012, 12:02:05 PM
No downside of refi'ing as long as the cost of the previous refi's were covered by the monthly savings.  They can always increase their mortgage payment to what is was before and pay off the home in less than 25 years.  Yeah the loan get's re-set back to 30 years but the interest rate is reduced, you just have to do the math.

This is the absolute key.  Just pay the same amount you were previously paying and you can never go wrong with refi'ing to a lower rate (if it is no cost refi).  If you are 5 years into a mortgage and refi to save .25% and then pay only the new amount, you will definitely be paying more over the course of the loan.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: SoCal on May 16, 2012, 12:39:33 PM
what is the downside to refi in 9 months or multiple refis in short periods of time?  i have friends who have refi'd 5 years into their loan and while they are saving on their monthly, they tacked on 5 years more to their mortgage payoff date so are they really saving?

For me, refinancing after a short period of time was a non-issue. In the early stages of the amortization schedule, so little of what you pay is applied towards the principal. So, I was totally comfortable hitting the "Restart" button. Since there is no prepayment penalty, we can pay off however we'd like. It was no cost, so I don't have to find that break-even point for when the loan becomes worth it.

Fwiw, I did consider Provident. Heard pretty good things about them. In our case: we have credit scores in the high 700s, clean credit histories, very healthy DTI ratios, carrying minimal debt, home appraisal came in higher than expected, sufficient equity, etc. We would be good candidates for the type of client that Provident caters to. So, I did not choose to work with the company that I did because we don't qualify for something better or anything like that. I have found good customer service with SGIP and have experienced enough in the past to come to really value that. It's not all about the rate for me. My rate was a bit higher than it probably would have been had I gone to Provident. However, it was okay with me. I was coming down from 4.5% and enjoy working with SGIP, so it's all good with me.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 16, 2012, 01:01:10 PM
Man... I remember when 8% was a great rate.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: davenlei on May 16, 2012, 01:16:40 PM
what is the downside to refi in 9 months or multiple refis in short periods of time?  i have friends who have refi'd 5 years into their loan and while they are saving on their monthly, they tacked on 5 years more to their mortgage payoff date so are they really saving?

For me, refinancing after a short period of time was a non-issue. In the early stages of the amortization schedule, so little of what you pay is applied towards the principal. So, I was totally comfortable hitting the "Restart" button. Since there is no prepayment penalty, we can pay off however we'd like. It was no cost, so I don't have to find that break-even point for when the loan becomes worth it.

Fwiw, I did consider Provident. Heard pretty good things about them. In our case: we have credit scores in the high 700s, clean credit histories, very healthy DTI ratios, carrying minimal debt, home appraisal came in higher than expected, sufficient equity, etc. We would be good candidates for the type of client that Provident caters to. So, I did not choose to work with the company that I did because we don't qualify for something better or anything like that. I have found good customer service with SGIP and have experienced enough in the past to come to really value that. It's not all about the rate for me. My rate was a bit higher than it probably would have been had I gone to Provident. However, it was okay with me. I was coming down from 4.5% and enjoy working with SGIP, so it's all good with me.

I totally agree.  Working with SGIP allows me to sleep well at night during a purchase or refi.  I know things will be taken care of and I don't have to worry about any bad surprises that could have been avoided.  I have worked with several Mortgage Brokers in the past and SGIP is the best I have worked with.  He has done my purchase and refi and I am waiting in the wings to refi again if he feels the benefit is there for me.  By the way, I have referred several co-workers to him and the ones that did work with him have all had very similar positive experiences.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: rkp on May 16, 2012, 01:21:04 PM
there are literally no out of pocket fees?  who pays for the appraisal?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: SoCal on May 16, 2012, 01:37:44 PM
there are literally no out of pocket fees?  who pays for the appraisal?

Welcome to my world, Rkp!  :) A few months ago, I said the exact same thing.  :) That's why I love this site! We can all help each other save monayyyy! (http://serve.mysmiley.net/party/party0003.gif)

The only risk capital for us was a $300 application fee, which is credited back at closing. I think the paperwork said that (theoretically) that could be used towards the cost of the appraisal if the client walked away at a certain point however I'm not sure how strict they are on that. Maybe SGIP can elaborate.


Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on May 16, 2012, 01:39:48 PM
there are literally no out of pocket fees?  who pays for the appraisal?
It comes down to the cost associated with the rate.  For example, SoCal probably got the rate of 3.875% with a .50% credit.  That credit amount was sufficient to absorb most all or all of the closings costs related with the refi, including the appraisal cost.  No such thing as a FREE refi unless you have a rate that provides a credit high enough to cover the closing costs.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: SoCal on May 16, 2012, 02:03:07 PM
Rkp, here is what you really want to know: I wrote 2 checks. One was for the application fee. The second was for next month's pro-rated interest like normal, except that amount was reduced by the amount of the first check. I like no-cost loans because it's easier to make an apples-to-apples comparison when you are shopping.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: daedalus on May 16, 2012, 11:14:34 PM
Just curious, for those who have or are planning to refi, what's the thinking behind going from a non-recourse loan to a recourse loan?  Are you convinced that, no matter what, you'll never be underwater?  Are you financially- or career-secure enough that it isn't an issue?  Do you see it as being worth the risk?  Or do you think recourse defaults will continue to be un-enforced debts?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: davenlei on May 17, 2012, 01:22:01 AM
Just curious, for those who have or are planning to refi, what's the thinking behind going from a non-recourse loan to a recourse loan?  Are you convinced that, no matter what, you'll never be underwater?  Are you financially- or career-secure enough that it isn't an issue?  Do you see it as being worth the risk?  Or do you think recourse defaults will continue to be un-enforced debts?

That did cross my mind when I refi'd but since I have a sizeable equity cushion with the house I am in, it would take a pretty harsh drop to dip me into negative equity.  To get that kind of drop in prop values, either a devastating earthquake would have hit or the economy would have fallen off a cliff much worse than the past few years.  If either of those happened, I think having a recourse loan would be one of the last worries on my mind.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: LAtoOC on May 17, 2012, 08:07:15 AM
By Christine Maurus
     May 17 (Bloomberg) -- Mortgage rates in the U.S. fell to a
record for a third straight week, reducing borrowing costs as
the housing market improves and home-loan defaults decline.
     The average rate for a 30-year  fixed loan dropped to 3.79
percent in the week ended today from 3.83 percent, Freddie Mac
said in a statement. It was the lowest in the McLean, Virginia-
based mortgage-finance company’s data dating to 1971. The
average 15-year  rate decreased to 3.04 percent, also a record,
from 3.05 percent.

.....

So, how low will we go, especially if Eurogeddon takes place?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on May 17, 2012, 10:41:16 AM
Remember that

A.) that stat is 1 week old,

2.) it's a national average, and

III.) It's not a zero point loan, but one that costs .8x in fees.

The bottom comes when banks can't make any money on a mortgage which so far has been 3.5% for a 30 year fixed rate for near zero fees. Anything below that would (IMHO) be neigh impossible to originate, service, and resell to an investor. ARM loans are lower because they've got a lit fuse.

My .02c
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on May 17, 2012, 10:53:33 AM
Remember that

A.) that stat is 1 week old,

2.) it's a national average, and

III.) It's not a zero point loan, but one that costs .8x in fees.

The bottom comes when banks can't make any money on a mortgage which so far has been 3.5% for a 30 year fixed rate for near zero fees. Anything below that would (IMHO) be neigh impossible to originate, service, and resell to an investor. ARM loans are lower because they've got a lit fuse.

My .02c
Just like with the stock and bond markets, the MBS market can become very irrational as well.  I didn't think we could get below 4% and then we cracked that lower so who the heck knows where the bottom for 30-year rates is.  That being said, I think that in Japan you can get a long term fixed mortgage in the 2% range so anything is possible.  To me, any rate below 3% is effectively an interest free loan due to inflation.  Penfed used to have a 5-year car loan at 2.49% and they recently lowered that rate to 1.99%.  Will we have the Japanese lost decade 2.0?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: WoodburyDad on May 17, 2012, 12:58:52 PM

.....

So, how low will we go, especially if Eurogeddon takes place?

The 10 is @ 1.70 today, a seven month low
I’m hoping it will break thru the record low of 1.67
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on May 17, 2012, 08:17:29 PM

.....

So, how low will we go, especially if Eurogeddon takes place?

The 10 is @ 1.70 today, a seven month low
I’m hoping it will break thru the record low of 1.67

If it breaks 1.67%, we'll probably get down to around 1.50%.  The big question is can we get down to 1.00% (I don't know if we'll get below 1.50% but if Germany did it who knows).
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: cash92104 on May 19, 2012, 02:18:32 PM
Just came to an agreement on a 15yr fixed at 2.875% with $515 in lender fees (not including 3rd party fees).  Sharing for benefit of others...
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on May 19, 2012, 03:57:06 PM
Just came to an agreement on a 15yr fixed at 2.875% with $515 in lender fees (not including 3rd party fees).  Sharing for benefit of others...
With inflation running at least at 3% per year, that's effectively an interest fee loan (on a real basis).
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: rkp on May 19, 2012, 11:08:55 PM
Just came to an agreement on a 15yr fixed at 2.875% with $515 in lender fees (not including 3rd party fees).  Sharing for benefit of others...

thanks for sharing...which lender?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on May 20, 2012, 12:51:58 AM
Just came to an agreement on a 15yr fixed at 2.875% with $515 in lender fees (not including 3rd party fees).  Sharing for benefit of others...

thanks for sharing...which lender?
Provident has 15yr fixed rates at 2.75% at 0pts plus lender fees.  https://www.provident.com/   You better be squeaky clean because they are one of the most strict lenders out there.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: cash92104 on May 20, 2012, 05:55:20 AM
Just came to an agreement on a 15yr fixed at 2.875% with $515 in lender fees (not including 3rd party fees).  Sharing for benefit of others...

thanks for sharing...which lender?

National Bank of Kansas City.  I just did a search on bankrate.com (or maybe it was google's service when they were still active) and called the lowest advertised rate.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on May 31, 2012, 08:19:59 AM
Wow, the 10-year bond is at 1.54% as I speak.  I thought that 1.50% was going to be as low as might be able to go, but maybe we can go down to 1% just like Japan.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 31, 2012, 08:54:41 AM
I just saw a Greenlight commercial on TV this morning with a 3% no-cost loan... redic.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on May 31, 2012, 09:18:02 AM
I just saw a Greenlight commercial on TV this morning with a 3% no-cost loan... redic.
That can't be for a 30-year fixed...probably either a 15-year or 20-year fixed (which is a touch high).  The 30-year fixed should be available at around 3.50% no points or a small credit (depending on the lender that you go with). 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 31, 2012, 09:52:09 AM
Yeah... not sure of the term as I caught it right before it finished.

So now we're at 3.5? So funny because they keep making the impossible possible.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: WoodburyDad on May 31, 2012, 10:09:55 AM
After yesterday’s drop, I expected the 10 would rally today.
Very happy to see it drop even further.
It got away a few weeks back (climbing up to around 2) but has come down considerably making new lows.
 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on May 31, 2012, 10:23:51 AM
After yesterday’s drop, I expected the 10 would rally today.
Very happy to see it drop even further.
It got away a few weeks back (climbing up to around 2) but has come down considerably making new lows.
 

The German 10-year bund was below 1.25% earlier today.  One thing I have learned is to expect the unexpected.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on May 31, 2012, 10:24:30 AM
Yeah... not sure of the term as I caught it right before it finished.

So now we're at 3.5? So funny because they keep making the impossible possible.
Yeah, we are solidily at 3.50% at par or with a small credit (looking at provident and amerisave).
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: WoodburyDad on May 31, 2012, 10:36:22 AM
Looks like MBS are rallying, the 10 back at 1.60
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on May 31, 2012, 10:50:16 AM
Looks like MBS are rallying, the 10 back at 1.60

Is there a website that I can track MBS bond pricing?  Or are you using a Bloomberg terminal?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on May 31, 2012, 01:05:51 PM
Without paying a fee, it's difficult to get live MBS prices. Try mortgagenewsdaily.com. They have very sharp data that's free. If you want the live stuff though it's pretty spendy.

Greenlight's website posts rates, but you're better off with Provident or Amerisave given the customer service ratings. That 3.0% rate is a 10 year fixed not 30.

http://www.greenlightloans.com/greenlight/web2/OurRates.html

Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 31, 2012, 02:31:54 PM
3.0% for 10-year seems high to me... especially if you can go sub-3% with a 15 or 20.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on May 31, 2012, 02:39:39 PM
3.0% for 10-year seems high to me... especially if you can go sub-3% with a 15 or 20.
It is high for a 10-year.  You should be able to get a 15-year around 2.75-2.875%.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on May 31, 2012, 02:40:43 PM
Without paying a fee, it's difficult to get live MBS prices. Try mortgagenewsdaily.com. They have very sharp data that's free. If you want the live stuff though it's pretty spendy.

Greenlight's website posts rates, but you're better off with Provident or Amerisave given the customer service ratings. That 3.0% rate is a 10 year fixed not 30.

http://www.greenlightloans.com/greenlight/web2/OurRates.html
Yeah, the MBS bond rate is the "wholesale" rate that no one can get, I'm more interested in tracking the movement of the rates on a daily basis. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: SoCal on May 31, 2012, 02:43:27 PM
3.0% for 10-year seems high to me... especially if you can go sub-3% with a 15 or 20.
It is high for a 10-year.  You should be able to get a 15-year around 2.75-2.875%.

Is the 10 year rate higher due to it not being as widely sought out as say, the 15 year?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on May 31, 2012, 02:56:16 PM
Right on the nose. No money in 10 year loans which is why we may see more attractive ARM loans coming. Lenders would rather gamble on a 2.75% ARM that could go higher than fund a market rate 2.625% loan that's fixed. 

We are at the bottom now. I've long held that we aren't likely to see a push through below 3.5% without substantial cost because it's not a loan that makes enough money to support the banking industry. We'll know soon enough if that's a viewpoint in need of changing. Europe isn't going to heal overnight so there's plenty of time to see these lower rates flop around at these levels.

My .02c

Soylent Green Is People
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on May 31, 2012, 03:21:15 PM
3.0% for 10-year seems high to me... especially if you can go sub-3% with a 15 or 20.
It is high for a 10-year.  You should be able to get a 15-year around 2.75-2.875%.

Is the 10 year rate higher due to it not being as widely sought out as say, the 15 year?
The 10-year rate should be a little bit lower than a 15-year rate.  The lender that is offering that 10-year rate is on the high side.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on May 31, 2012, 03:23:34 PM
Right on the nose. No money in 10 year loans which is why we may see more attractive ARM loans coming. Lenders would rather gamble on a 2.75% ARM that could go higher than fund a market rate 2.625% loan that's fixed. 

We are at the bottom now. I've long held that we aren't likely to see a push through below 3.5% without substantial cost because it's not a loan that makes enough money to support the banking industry. We'll know soon enough if that's a viewpoint in need of changing. Europe isn't going to heal overnight so there's plenty of time to see these lower rates flop around at these levels.

My .02c

Soylent Green Is People
I'm not shocked by many things anymore, but I would be surprised if the 30-year fixed did get below 3-3.25%.  Rates are dropping everywhere...I got a 2.49% 5-year used private party car loan from Penfed last year and I thought that was as low as it was going to get....nope, they dropped that rate down to 1.99% last month.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 31, 2012, 04:54:32 PM
I got a 2.49% 5-year used private party car loan from Penfed last year and I thought that was as low as it was going to get....nope, they dropped that rate down to 1.99% last month.
I should look into that... do they refi car loans?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on May 31, 2012, 06:03:55 PM
I got a 2.49% 5-year used private party car loan from Penfed last year and I thought that was as low as it was going to get....nope, they dropped that rate down to 1.99% last month.
I should look into that... do they refi car loans?
Yes they do, just not existing penfed car loans.   >:(   :'(  :-\
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Homer_Simpson on June 01, 2012, 10:15:28 AM
Penfed gets my nod as well. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: davenlei on June 01, 2012, 03:23:12 PM
I got a 2.49% 5-year used private party car loan from Penfed last year and I thought that was as low as it was going to get....nope, they dropped that rate down to 1.99% last month.
I should look into that... do they refi car loans?
Yes they do, just not existing penfed car loans.   >:(   :'(  :-\

OK, Who do I go to for doing this Penfed car loan refi?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: davenlei on June 01, 2012, 03:25:11 PM
I got a 2.49% 5-year used private party car loan from Penfed last year and I thought that was as low as it was going to get....nope, they dropped that rate down to 1.99% last month.
I should look into that... do they refi car loans?
Yes they do, just not existing penfed car loans.   >:(   :'(  :-\

OK, Who do I go to for doing this Penfed car loan refi?

Nevermind. I went to their site.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on June 20, 2012, 11:37:15 PM
Provident had a 30-year fixed for 3.375% at 0pts for a few days the past week (up to 3.375% at 1/2pt today).  They only lend conforming loans ($417k and under). 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Homer_Simpson on June 21, 2012, 09:34:51 AM
Any news on the 5/1 or 7/1 ARM with no fees?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on June 21, 2012, 10:19:33 AM
Any news on the 5/1 or 7/1 ARM with no fees?
The 5/1 ARM hit 2.375% with a small credit and 7/1 hit 2.50% with a small credit for few days recently.  Now we are back up to 2.50-2.625% for the 5/1 ARM and 2.75% for the 7/1 ARM (damn that operation twist).  I think QE3, if it includes MBS purchases, might push the 30-year fixed close to 3% and maybe the ARMs down.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on June 21, 2012, 10:45:09 AM
I think QE3, if it includes MBS purchases, might push the 30-year fixed close to 3% and maybe the ARMs down.
It's the end of the world!!!

Should really try to buy something this year before rates go back up.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: zubs on June 22, 2012, 12:49:27 AM
Didn't someone say that below a certain amount for 30 yr fixed, lender is not making money, so they won't lend?  Overhead is too high and mortgage rate too low.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on June 22, 2012, 06:29:36 AM
That was me.

Note that 3.25 has been with fees (conventional) even with a 1.6 10YT and MBS prices at all time highs. Some lenders are offering 3.25 fee free on an FHA loan simply because the loan has a government guarantee backing it. We're going to see the Freddie Mac Weekly Rate Survey hit 3.5x soon, but the costs to get that rate will likely go from. 75 to 1.0x.

Lenders capacity to process and close loans is stretching from 45-60 days out to 90-120 in many cases BTW.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: zubs on June 22, 2012, 11:08:11 AM
I wanted to know your opinions about the 30 yr fixed going down to 3.25% or even lower. 
Do you think that can happen? 
If lenders are already at the break even pt, it doesn't seem like we can get lower than now.  We may stay at this level for a long time though.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Homer_Simpson on June 22, 2012, 11:27:14 AM
Guess I'll be house hunting again this weekend.. PS9 or IHO wanna join in?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on June 22, 2012, 12:08:52 PM
Zubs - It's possible now to get 3.25%, but at what cost is the question. If you've got 40% equity, a 781 FICO, a $417,000 loan, and a SFD, 3.25% might run 1.0 point, plus fees. IF you've got an 80% loan for a Condo with a 739 FICO, and a $225,000 loan, 3.25% will cost about 3 points, plus fees. 

Even for the high FICO, low loan to value, right across the plate soft pitches that you can't miss hitting over the Left Field wall type of transactions, 3.25% will come at a cost. Then again, I've been wrong before. When the Government intervenes, who can know what's going to be the end result?

My .02c
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: SoCal on June 22, 2012, 12:53:32 PM
SGIP, have you seen the new "Yourgage" promo by Quicken Loans? Thoughts?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on June 22, 2012, 01:46:45 PM
SGIP, have you seen the new "Yourgage" promo by Quicken Loans? Thoughts?
It's crap....basically the same pricing as the product with the longer term.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on June 22, 2012, 04:42:58 PM
Guess I'll be house hunting again this weekend.. PS9 or IHO wanna join in?
We should run some ball in the morning and then hit up Open Houses in our sweaty clothes. :)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on June 22, 2012, 04:44:58 PM
When the Government intervenes, who can know what's going to be the end result?
0% APR just like the auto dealers!!!
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: SoCal on June 22, 2012, 05:52:27 PM
Guess I'll be house hunting again this weekend.. PS9 or IHO wanna join in?
We should run some ball in the morning and then hit up Open Houses in our sweaty clothes. :)

Before I met some of you guys, I never knew men liked to go house shopping as a pass-time.

Do you guys happen to be into shoe shopping, too? Just wondering.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Homer_Simpson on June 22, 2012, 06:59:46 PM
Guess I'll be house hunting again this weekend.. PS9 or IHO wanna join in?
We should run some ball in the morning and then hit up Open Houses in our sweaty clothes. :)

Before I met some of you guys, I never knew men liked to go house shopping as a pass-time.

Do you guys happen to be into shoe shopping, too? Just wondering.

Why yes!!
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on June 22, 2012, 07:16:36 PM
Used to buy tons of shoes... then I got married.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on June 22, 2012, 08:31:36 PM
You guys still looking at homes?  I thought we all decided on a IHO/Homer/ps9 view lot in Alderwood/Vista Verde... I got to save up for the $900k
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: daedalus on July 10, 2012, 02:10:42 PM
Just adding a data point here.  I just locked in a refi.  30 year fixed jumbo conforming @ 3.75% with $5k *credit* to closing...covering all costs plus helping to fund the impound account.  Keeping my fingers crossed on the appraisal!
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on July 10, 2012, 04:39:59 PM
Just adding a data point here.  I just locked in a refi.  30 year fixed jumbo conforming @ 3.75% with $5k *credit* to closing...covering all costs plus helping to fund the impound account.  Keeping my fingers crossed on the appraisal!

what bank was that with? 

right now provident is offering 3.625% with a 0.125 credit on loans over between 417K and 625K

https://www.provident.com/Origination/Information/RatesAndPricing/QuickRatesCalc.aspx
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: daedalus on July 10, 2012, 05:02:44 PM
I ended up going with Amerisave based on a couple co-workers' recommendations.  They give you a menu of rates/rebates and you choose.  Had I picked 3.625 my credit would have  been about .3%, and I could have picked 3.875 for roughly 1.3% credit.
I locked as soon as they would let me (all paperwork faxed in), but by the end of the day the $5k credit would have been $6k had I waited!  Interesting times. 
Final verdict is pending, but so far they seem to have this process down to an exact science.  I applied online yesterday AM, got an immediate phone call and email from the loan processor, locked the rate this AM, and the appraiser will be out tomorrow PM (with apologies for not being able to make it out today).  The only downside is everything is NOW NOW NOW.  48 hours time limit to fax the disclosures back, and all your statements need to be in too before you can lock the rate.  Wife and I pulled an all-nighter trying to track everything down.  Also, something I found interesting is that a credit score of 793 will get you a smaller rebate than a credit score of 800.  My middle credit score was 809, my wife's middle score was 793.  They used her median # and our credit showed up as less (and matched what their home page calculator shows for that #). 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on July 10, 2012, 05:25:18 PM
Just adding a data point here.  I just locked in a refi.  30 year fixed jumbo conforming @ 3.75% with $5k *credit* to closing...covering all costs plus helping to fund the impound account.  Keeping my fingers crossed on the appraisal!

Do u need that much credit too close?  Usually $1200-1500 is needed to cover most fees on refi's.  Save some interest if you go with less credit.  Funding ur impound account with credit is pretty expensive.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on July 10, 2012, 05:42:48 PM
I ended up going with Amerisave based on a couple co-workers' recommendations.  They give you a menu of rates/rebates and you choose.  Had I picked 3.625 my credit would have  been about .3%, and I could have picked 3.875 for roughly 1.3% credit.
I locked as soon as they would let me (all paperwork faxed in), but by the end of the day the $5k credit would have been $6k had I waited!  Interesting times. 
Final verdict is pending, but so far they seem to have this process down to an exact science.  I applied online yesterday AM, got an immediate phone call and email from the loan processor, locked the rate this AM, and the appraiser will be out tomorrow PM (with apologies for not being able to make it out today).  The only downside is everything is NOW NOW NOW.  48 hours time limit to fax the disclosures back, and all your statements need to be in too before you can lock the rate.  Wife and I pulled an all-nighter trying to track everything down.  Also, something I found interesting is that a credit score of 793 will get you a smaller rebate than a credit score of 800.  My middle credit score was 809, my wife's middle score was 793.  They used her median # and our credit showed up as less (and matched what their home page calculator shows for that #). 
Keep us posted on the process.  I know someone who had delays after delays and finally closed on his refi in about 75 days while someone else closed on their refi in about 30 days. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: daedalus on July 10, 2012, 06:40:02 PM
Do u need that much credit too close?  Usually $1200-1500 is needed to cover most fees on refi's.  Save some interest if you go with less credit.  Funding ur impound account with credit is pretty expensive.
Not sure what you mean by "expensive".  It was pretty much the sweet spot, plus I wanted to make sure the refi was truly no-cost.  As crazy as it sounds, I won't abandon all hope that I may get to refi again at some point!  Had I gone 1/8% lower on rate, the credit may not have covered all costs.

Keep us posted on the process.  I know someone who had delays after delays and finally closed on his refi in about 75 days while someone else closed on their refi in about 30 days. 
I will stay on top of it.  Maybe it's who you get, but I also think  they're just trending better.  1 coworker purchased with them years ago, and he was satisfied, but not overly so.  Another co-worker has refi'd with them 2x in 2 years.  The first time, service was good, but with a couple minor snags.  The 2nd time, things went much better.  But even he was impressed with their responsiveness yesterday.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on July 10, 2012, 08:17:56 PM
I usually refi with just enough credit to cover all costs, if there is anything leftover then I could've gotten a better rate...

so if we assume your mortgaged amount is $625k and typical refi cost is ~$1500 (that's my own experience, anything more I would be looking elsewhere)

at 3.75% interest starts at $1953/month, $5000 credit -$1500 refi fees = $3500 leftover for ur impound per ur post

at 3.625% (per ur post) interest starts at $1888/month, $1875 credit - $1500 refi fees = $375 leftover

Difference in interest paid is $65/month.. at 1 year the interest difference is $780..so instead of depositing ur own INTEREST free money (~$3000) in ur impound, going with the banks credit after a year will cost you $780 more in interest.   So is it worth paying $780 per year for an extra $3000?

I'm getting dizzy.. tired.. don't know if this makes sense.. i'll read it again tomorrow to see .. maybe SGIP can chime in?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: woodburyowner on July 10, 2012, 08:37:36 PM
I ended up going with Amerisave based on a couple co-workers' recommendations.  They give you a menu of rates/rebates and you choose.  Had I picked 3.625 my credit would have  been about .3%, and I could have picked 3.875 for roughly 1.3% credit.
I locked as soon as they would let me (all paperwork faxed in), but by the end of the day the $5k credit would have been $6k had I waited!  Interesting times. 
Final verdict is pending, but so far they seem to have this process down to an exact science.  I applied online yesterday AM, got an immediate phone call and email from the loan processor, locked the rate this AM, and the appraiser will be out tomorrow PM (with apologies for not being able to make it out today).  The only downside is everything is NOW NOW NOW.  48 hours time limit to fax the disclosures back, and all your statements need to be in too before you can lock the rate.  Wife and I pulled an all-nighter trying to track everything down.  Also, something I found interesting is that a credit score of 793 will get you a smaller rebate than a credit score of 800.  My middle credit score was 809, my wife's middle score was 793.  They used her median # and our credit showed up as less (and matched what their home page calculator shows for that #). 

I had the same decision a few weeks back when I locked with Provident.  I regret not taking the highest rate with largest credit since I can refi again to a lower rate already.  I basically cost myself $1500 since that was the difference between 3.75% and 3.875%.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on July 10, 2012, 08:48:13 PM
Amerisave gives a big credit of around $3k for a refi of $410k at 3.375% so the rate for the loans $417,001 to $625,500 are 1/4% higher than the conforming rate.  I'm hoping for 3.25% with $1,500 to $2,000 in credits.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on July 10, 2012, 08:55:45 PM
Wouldn't there be a seasoning clause to prevent people from taking too much credit and then refi again before the break even point?  If there isn't, sign me up too.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on July 10, 2012, 09:13:56 PM
Do u need that much credit too close?  Usually $1200-1500 is needed to cover most fees on refi's.  Save some interest if you go with less credit.  Funding ur impound account with credit is pretty expensive.
Not sure what you mean by "expensive".  It was pretty much the sweet spot, plus I wanted to make sure the refi was truly no-cost.  As crazy as it sounds, I won't abandon all hope that I may get to refi again at some point!  Had I gone 1/8% lower on rate, the credit may not have covered all costs.

Keep us posted on the process.  I know someone who had delays after delays and finally closed on his refi in about 75 days while someone else closed on their refi in about 30 days. 
I will stay on top of it.  Maybe it's who you get, but I also think  they're just trending better.  1 coworker purchased with them years ago, and he was satisfied, but not overly so.  Another co-worker has refi'd with them 2x in 2 years.  The first time, service was good, but with a couple minor snags.  The 2nd time, things went much better.  But even he was impressed with their responsiveness yesterday.
Did you refi with amerisave that you can fund your impound account via the lender credit?  I thought most lenders didn't allow that.  I don't have an impound account on my current loan but if I can lock into a 30-year fixed in the low 3s I'll set up an impound account.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on July 10, 2012, 09:17:48 PM
Wouldn't there be a seasoning clause to prevent people from taking too much credit and then refi again before the break even point?  If there isn't, sign me up too.
You are limited to how much in credits you can take up to your allowable closing costs.  Let's say your allowable closing costs are $2k and your credit is $3k then you'll only be able to use $2k of the credit and the rest goes to waste because lender will not cut you a check at the close of the refi.  I think the loan has to be sold to Fannie/Freddie before you can refi but I'd defer to SGIP to be sure.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: woodburyowner on July 10, 2012, 10:48:04 PM
You are limited to how much in credits you can take up to your allowable closing costs.  Let's say your allowable closing costs are $2k and your credit is $3k then you'll only be able to use $2k of the credit and the rest goes to waste because lender will not cut you a check at the close of the refi.  I think the loan has to be sold to Fannie/Freddie before you can refi but I'd defer to SGIP to be sure.

The alternative is to set up an impound account.  The excess credit can be used to fund this account.  Once the loan funds, you can cancel the impound account and receive a check for the balance.  That's what I just did...
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: daedalus on July 11, 2012, 02:52:07 PM
so if we assume your mortgaged amount is $625k and typical refi cost is ~$1500 (that's my own experience, anything more I would be looking elsewhere)

at 3.75% interest starts at $1953/month, $5000 credit -$1500 refi fees = $3500 leftover for ur impound per ur post

at 3.625% (per ur post) interest starts at $1888/month, $1875 credit - $1500 refi fees = $375 leftover

Difference in interest paid is $65/month.. at 1 year the interest difference is $780..so instead of depositing ur own INTEREST free money (~$3000) in ur impound, going with the banks credit after a year will cost you $780 more in interest.   So is it worth paying $780 per year for an extra $3000?

Please provide a breakdown of that $1500 from your experience.  Title insurance alone will eat up most of that, though it is based on home value and not loan value.  Application, appraisal, certifications, notary, recording, etc...it all adds up.   And the closing costs are just an estimate.  I wanted to be SURE they were completely covered.  As I stated before, I will roll the refi dice and hold out hope I can do even better, even though the odds are slim.  If I knew for certain I would have the option, then chasing the biggest rebate makes the most sense, as long as it does not exceed total settlement costs.  Also, $66 is the difference in interest in the 1st month but not every month, and on a FRM the delta in payment is only $44...$528/year not $780.

The alternative is to set up an impound account.  The excess credit can be used to fund this account.  Once the loan funds, you can cancel the impound account and receive a check for the balance.  That's what I just did...
+1  Looking at the settlement sheet now, and that is exactly what they did.  The entire credit is an "adjusted origination charge" and is deducted from the  "charges for all other settlement".  Had I gone with the bigger rebate, I might have wasted some of it.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on July 12, 2012, 07:42:33 AM
3.25% with rebates today from Intarweb Lenders only. Didn't think I'd ever see it but it's certainly here. Even stranger - 15 year fixed in the upper 2's. We finally hit USC's 1.49 10 year T yesterday. Can't wait to see a negative yield 2 year note like the Swiss have. Crazy times.


There isn't a limit in the amount of lender rebate you can be given. It must be spent on things other than principal reductions. You could theoretically refinance at 3.5% and get an impound account paid for, 90 days later kill off the impound account, then refinance again at 3.375%, get the impound account, and so on.

Lenders have both seasoning and benefit to borrower requirements to prevent this kind of "churning". No one wants to book a loan that's in the short run a loser for them only to see it refinanced off the books not long after x number of payments are made. Expect 90 days (3 payments) before you can get rid of an impound account, and most lenders want to see you have 4 to 6 months in your current loan before they will approve a new refinance. From there, the "benefit to borrower" piece comes into play. If you closed at 4.0% and refinance to 3.75% - there's a benefit. If you close at 3.75% and refinance again to 3.75% simply to get a new impound account, that's "churning" and no one's going to take the deal. Some lenders have a percentage of benefit, not just a .125% rate increment requirement in their guidelines.

During the boom, I knew of an accountant in Huntington Beach who refinanced with Countrywide ever 120 days. He had a 1.0% Option ARM that had a great teaser rate and a massive rebate to cover closing costs, while still making the loan officer a rich man for time and effort. Remember in context that this was during the days of a 5.0% 30 fixed and a 4.0% 5/1 ARM market. Eventually as we know today the music stopped and someone was left standing without a chair to sit on. The guy didn't get forclosed on, but for the time that revolving door was going round and round he did very well for himself.


My .02c
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Homer_Simpson on July 12, 2012, 08:29:01 AM
What are the 5/1 or 7/1 ARM rates as of today?? Wheres the best place to check?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on July 12, 2012, 08:43:51 AM
What are the 5/1 or 7/1 ARM rates as of today?? Wheres the best place to check?
The pricing for 5/1 and 7/1 ARM rates sucks.  Provident or Amerisave are the best places online to track those rates.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Homer_Simpson on July 12, 2012, 08:46:25 AM
Thanks Mart :)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on July 24, 2012, 10:57:07 AM
10-year bond has hit 1.39% and looks like you get get a confirming loan (<=$417k) at par for 3.25%.  I'm thinking if the 10-year does hit 1%, we could see 3% flat at par for the 30-year fixed conforming loan.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Homer_Simpson on July 24, 2012, 11:05:09 AM
10-year bond has hit 1.39% and looks like you get get a confirming loan (<=$417k) at par for 3.25%.  I'm thinking if the 10-year does hit 1%, we could see 3% flat at par for the 30-year fixed conforming loan.

0 Fees?  :-*
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on July 24, 2012, 11:07:25 AM
10-year bond has hit 1.39% and looks like you get get a confirming loan (<=$417k) at par for 3.25%.  I'm thinking if the 10-year does hit 1%, we could see 3% flat at par for the 30-year fixed conforming loan.

0 Fees?  :-*
If your credit score is over 800 then amerisave will give you a small credit for 3.25%.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: gld2 on July 24, 2012, 01:29:54 PM
I saw the credit over $2,000, which can cover your cost of $1500,  you still have $500 left for interests.

10-year bond has hit 1.39% and looks like you get get a confirming loan (<=$417k) at par for 3.25%.  I'm thinking if the 10-year does hit 1%, we could see 3% flat at par for the 30-year fixed conforming loan.

0 Fees?  :-*
If your credit score is over 800 then amerisave will give you a small credit for 3.25%.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on July 24, 2012, 01:53:27 PM
I saw the credit over $2,000, which can cover your cost of $1500,  you still have $500 left for interests.

10-year bond has hit 1.39% and looks like you get get a confirming loan (<=$417k) at par for 3.25%.  I'm thinking if the 10-year does hit 1%, we could see 3% flat at par for the 30-year fixed conforming loan.

0 Fees?  :-*
If your credit score is over 800 then amerisave will give you a small credit for 3.25%.
It was less than $1,000 when I looked in the morning, looks like it's increased as the market has tanked.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on July 24, 2012, 07:57:03 PM
With AAPL missing it's possible we'll see stocks slump tomorrow, pushing more cash out of risk and into government paper. I've given up on telling how low things can go. Every day is a greater surprise with these numbers.

Some companies are experiencing pushbacks from the Agencies for paper they closed recently. One local radio ad heavy who also makes "Personal Loans" is going through a FNMA audit and it's not going well from what we've been told.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: OCgasman on August 08, 2012, 03:48:13 PM
Just giving another data point.  I'm refi'ing a conventional 30 yr fixed for 3.5%, no fees, no impounds.  Locked a couple weeks ago.  I'm happy with the rate and can't see ever refi'ing again, but who knows. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: woodburyowner on August 15, 2012, 12:39:56 PM
Mortgage rates really spiked up today (also last 2 weeks or so).  Best bet now is cashcall since they are still offering 3.75% for Super Conforming 30 with no points/fees.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on August 15, 2012, 01:20:50 PM
provident is showing 4.25 with a quarter point. damn. we need another europe scare.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on August 15, 2012, 02:13:21 PM
provident is showing 4.25 with a quarter point. damn. we need another europe scare.
Amerisave is at 3.875% with a $1k credit for jumbo conforming.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on August 15, 2012, 03:42:20 PM
Provident is trying to slow the business down as their pipelines are full.

Rates spiked up a bit last year, but in 60 days they were back in line with the market prior to the spike. It's a blip - a significant one - but not a trend.

My .02c
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on August 15, 2012, 05:08:54 PM
Provident is trying to slow the business down as their pipelines are full.

Rates spiked up a bit last year, but in 60 days they were back in line with the market prior to the spike. It's a blip - a significant one - but not a trend.

My .02c
So when lenders get too full of any particular type of loan, they'll just jack up their rates to steer the business away?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on August 16, 2012, 09:35:21 AM
All the time. Just as some banks will lower rates on specific products and try to increase market share, the opposite is also true. When a lender has it's fill of business, struggling to close what it has, they often will raise their rates causing inflow of new business to collapse. Give them another month. I'm sure they'll come back in the market soon.

My .02c
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: daedalus on August 16, 2012, 12:52:26 PM
The 10yr going up 30% in less than a month was surely a factor.  People were willing to lock money up @ 1.4% for 10 years...think about that.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on August 22, 2012, 06:07:28 PM
Quote
WASHINGTON -- Federal Reserve officials signaled Wednesday that they may be ready to launch a new bond buying program when they next meet in September.

The goal would be to try to lower long-term interest rates to encourage more borrowing and spending.

Minutes of the July 31-Aug. 1 policy meeting released Wednesday don't explicitly say what action the Fed would most likely take. But they hint that the central bank is preparing to begin more bond buying.

Get ready for some more drops.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/22/federal-reserve-_n_1823353.html
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on August 24, 2012, 09:49:53 AM
Quote
WASHINGTON -- Federal Reserve officials signaled Wednesday that they may be ready to launch a new bond buying program when they next meet in September.

The goal would be to try to lower long-term interest rates to encourage more borrowing and spending.

Minutes of the July 31-Aug. 1 policy meeting released Wednesday don't explicitly say what action the Fed would most likely take. But they hint that the central bank is preparing to begin more bond buying.

Get ready for some more drops.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/22/federal-reserve-_n_1823353.html
Rates have drifted down about 1/8% this week.  The fun in Europe is not over yet so I could see rates coming down a bit more this year.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on August 27, 2012, 08:33:51 AM
Put in a refi application with Amerisave for a 7-year ARM at 2.625% (loan amount under $417k) with enough credit to pay for most all of the closing costs on Friday.  Appraiser already scheduled to come out on Tuesday afternoon and he reminded me to have my carbon monoxide detectors installed (one of each floor).  We'll see how the refi goes.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on August 27, 2012, 08:41:20 AM
My company is allergic to ARM products. Had a buyer on a $1.7m second home go to Compass Bank and get a $1.25m loan, 5/1 ARM at 2.5% for minor closing costs. Not a bad deal at all considering most 2nd home loans require 30% down.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on August 27, 2012, 09:35:59 AM
My company is allergic to ARM products. Had a buyer on a $1.7m second home go to Compass Bank and get a $1.25m loan, 5/1 ARM at 2.5% for minor closing costs. Not a bad deal at all considering most 2nd home loans require 30% down.
I noticed that some lenders have crappy pricing for ARM so I'm guessing like you say they don't want any more of them for the time being.  That 5/1 ARM loan at such a high balance is a great rate....I think in the $417k you would get 2.50% with credits to pick up most of your costs. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Crispy3 on September 18, 2012, 04:45:54 PM
My company is allergic to ARM products. Had a buyer on a $1.7m second home go to Compass Bank and get a $1.25m loan, 5/1 ARM at 2.5% for minor closing costs. Not a bad deal at all considering most 2nd home loans require 30% down.
I noticed that some lenders have crappy pricing for ARM so I'm guessing like you say they don't want any more of them for the time being.  That 5/1 ARM loan at such a high balance is a great rate....I think in the $417k you would get 2.50% with credits to pick up most of your costs.

Just filled out an application with Amerisave myself to refi... $2.5% with around -200 on fees/costs for a 400ish loan.
wondering if I should lock yet...

I'll setup the appraisal appointment for thurs/friday and see where rates are then.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Cubic Zirconia on September 18, 2012, 04:53:13 PM
Crispy, I was writing a post about my experience with Amerisave :-)

Been two months already, they have promised us a great rate with a credit also. Appraisal happened in two days, credit check within minutes, but the paperwork just doesn't end! And the papers they are asking for.. no other lender has ever asked for! I have a feeling something isn't right here.. first they wanted a new insurance policy that covered almost twice of what was covered now. No other lender did that- our insurance agent had to send a letter to them that this coverage was sufficient. Latest issue? Our homes have a different name and HOA a different one- they mention it one their website that they cover both, but Amerisave wants it written on a letterhead of the HOA, addressed to them.

One of those moments where you feel you should have gone the conventional way even if the rate was a little high! These delays with an excellent credit, good appraisal and all clean paperwork. Phew! Waiting for it close. Will never recommend their services, or go back to them. Search the net for 'amerisave scam'.

That said, if it closes, YAY for the best rate!
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on September 18, 2012, 07:09:05 PM
Crispy, I was writing a post about my experience with Amerisave :-)

Been two months already, they have promised us a great rate with a credit also. Appraisal happened in two days, credit check within minutes, but the paperwork just doesn't end! And the papers they are asking for.. no other lender has ever asked for! I have a feeling something isn't right here.. first they wanted a new insurance policy that covered almost twice of what was covered now. No other lender did that- our insurance agent had to send a letter to them that this coverage was sufficient. Latest issue? Our homes have a different name and HOA a different one- they mention it one their website that they cover both, but Amerisave wants it written on a letterhead of the HOA, addressed to them.

One of those moments where you feel you should have gone the conventional way even if the rate was a little high! These delays with an excellent credit, good appraisal and all clean paperwork. Phew! Waiting for it close. Will never recommend their services, or go back to them. Search the net for 'amerisave scam'.

That said, if it closes, YAY for the best rate!
That's the downside of using them....they can be painfully slow.  I've been told that they are easier to deal with on detached SFRs versus condos (especially if you have no HOA).  Another option would be Provident or PenFed (for the 5/5 ARM).
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvine_Dreamer on September 18, 2012, 08:07:14 PM
Crispy, I was writing a post about my experience with Amerisave :-)

Been two months already, they have promised us a great rate with a credit also. Appraisal happened in two days, credit check within minutes, but the paperwork just doesn't end! And the papers they are asking for.. no other lender has ever asked for! I have a feeling something isn't right here.. first they wanted a new insurance policy that covered almost twice of what was covered now. No other lender did that- our insurance agent had to send a letter to them that this coverage was sufficient. Latest issue? Our homes have a different name and HOA a different one- they mention it one their website that they cover both, but Amerisave wants it written on a letterhead of the HOA, addressed to them.

One of those moments where you feel you should have gone the conventional way even if the rate was a little high! These delays with an excellent credit, good appraisal and all clean paperwork. Phew! Waiting for it close. Will never recommend their services, or go back to them. Search the net for 'amerisave scam'.

That said, if it closes, YAY for the best rate!
I guess I won't be contacting Amerisave.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvine_Dreamer on September 18, 2012, 08:16:13 PM
That's the downside of using them....they can be painfully slow.  I've been told that they are easier to deal with on detached SFRs versus condos (especially if you have no HOA).  Another option would be Provident or PenFed (for the 5/5 ARM).
Thanks for the recommendation.
I will try Provident Funding.
Is PenFed's rate for 30 years fixed not competitive?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on September 18, 2012, 08:23:02 PM
That's the downside of using them....they can be painfully slow.  I've been told that they are easier to deal with on detached SFRs versus condos (especially if you have no HOA).  Another option would be Provident or PenFed (for the 5/5 ARM).
Thanks for the recommendation.
I will try Provident Funding.
Is PenFed's rate for 30 years fixed not competitive?
Their rates would be except that PenFed tacks on a 1% origination fee to all their fixed rate products which makes their 30-year fixed rate high.  Provident is usually a touch higher in pricing than Amerisave but isnt as slow.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Crispy3 on September 18, 2012, 10:13:38 PM
well I got all the docs uploaded already... lets see how it it takes to close... I figure they would be better than going through my regular brokers since they advertise that they are a direct lender
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Homer_Simpson on September 20, 2012, 10:25:35 AM
What are the rates today?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on September 20, 2012, 10:42:45 AM
What are the rates today?
For 30-year fixed rates....3.25% with a credit back for a loan <$417k and 3.50% with a smaller credit back for a loan >$417k.  5-year ARM is around 2.375% near par and 7-year ARM is around 2.625% near par.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Homer_Simpson on September 20, 2012, 10:51:53 AM
It's generally add .25% for a detached condo right?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on September 20, 2012, 11:13:45 AM
It's generally add .25% for a detached condo right?
Lenders will add a 1pt Fannie Mae based fee (.75pt condo fee and .25pt fee for being above 75% LTV) if you have an LTV of 75.01% to 80% on a condo (both attached and detached).  1pt can range from 1/8% to 1/4% in the rate.  If you are at 75% LTV or lower, that 1pt fee goes away.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Crispy3 on September 20, 2012, 12:01:55 PM
well I got all the docs uploaded already... lets see how it it takes to close... I figure they would be better than going through my regular brokers since they advertise that they are a direct lender

Guess what.. I submitted an offer last night and the seller accepted... gotta cancel the refi on my current place now... The appraisal was just done yesterday... hopefully they'll only charge me a "going out fee"

3.5% with $-2962 towards closing on a high balance conforming seems like the sweet spot today... will still be about 1k out of pocket to close.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on September 20, 2012, 12:20:10 PM
@Crispy: Are you selling your current place?

If you are keeping it, you may want to try to finish out the refi to make your payments lower.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on September 20, 2012, 12:24:14 PM
@Crispy: Are you selling your current place?

If you are keeping it, you may want to try to finish out the refi to make your payments lower.
You can't have two loans going where you get primary residence pricing.  His current property will need to be classified as an investment property which will result in a 2pt adjust or about a 3/8% to 1/2% higher interest rate.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on September 20, 2012, 02:17:02 PM
Or... you can close on your refi before you open your new loan.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Crispy3 on September 20, 2012, 02:31:28 PM
Or... you can close on your refi before you open your new loan.

I wish I could but I don't think it can happen (escrow is gonna open tomorrow).. plus I don't want to risk it.. I think it might be fraud.. don't want to get a letter from my lender one day to tell me to pay off the entirety of the loan cause they determined that it was fraud.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on September 20, 2012, 02:42:22 PM
Or... you can close on your refi before you open your new loan.
Refi's take longer to close than purchase loans.  I personally wouldn't risk it and I'm fairly risk tolerant. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on September 20, 2012, 03:02:01 PM
Not recommending it... just saying it's an option.

One other thing... you may want to check what a refi on an secondary home is... it might be better than your current one.

The refi rate we did on our rental is actually better than on our primary home (which we are currently trying to refi too).
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on September 20, 2012, 03:11:58 PM
Not recommending it... just saying it's an option.

One other thing... you may want to check what a refi on an secondary home is... it might be better than your current one.

The refi rate we did on our rental is actually better than on our primary home (which we are currently trying to refi too).
Adjustment for a rental/investment property is 2pt or around 1/2% higher.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Crispy3 on September 20, 2012, 03:12:12 PM
Not recommending it... just saying it's an option.

One other thing... you may want to check what a refi on an secondary home is... it might be better than your current one.

The refi rate we did on our rental is actually better than on our primary home (which we are currently trying to refi too).

It doesn't qualify as a secondary cause it's less than 50miles apart from each other...

rates on a rental property like USC said is usually a lot more.. in this case it was 1.25 higher than the rate I was trying to refi for...
I knew I was going to sell my current place within 2 years so I was going for a 5/1 arm at 2.75 with -3047 towards closing.. which would net me around -1321.

I might start refinancing my other investment properties soon if rates continue to drop.. they are all duplexes so the rates are even higher...
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on September 20, 2012, 03:15:40 PM
Not recommending it... just saying it's an option.

One other thing... you may want to check what a refi on an secondary home is... it might be better than your current one.

The refi rate we did on our rental is actually better than on our primary home (which we are currently trying to refi too).

It doesn't qualify as a secondary cause it's less than 50miles apart from each other...

rates on a rental property like USC said is usually a lot more.. in this case it was 1.25 higher than the rate I was trying to refi for...
I knew I was going to sell my current place within 2 years so I was going for a 5/1 arm at 2.75 with -3047 towards closing.. which would net me around -1321.

I might start refinancing my other investment properties soon if rates continue to drop.. they are all duplexes so the rates are even higher...
Yup, 2nd home rates are very similar to primary residence rates.  They hit you with another 1pt for a duplex and then another 1.5pts if it's 3-4 units.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on September 20, 2012, 04:51:28 PM
When I said "secondary home" I meant rental/investment... sorry.

But it already sounds like you're a land baron so don't mind me. :)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on September 20, 2012, 06:16:11 PM
There isn't a mileage issue with 2nd homes. You can't receive any rent on the property and when the appraiser shows up, don't have your slacker cousin open the door as he cleans up after the party last night. Although family often live in "second homes" full time without paying rent, second homes have to be for your exclusive use and enjoyment.

My .02c
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on September 20, 2012, 06:34:54 PM
There isn't a mileage issue with 2nd homes. You can't receive any rent on the property and when the appraiser shows up, don't have your slacker cousin open the door as he cleans up after the party last night. Although family often live in "second homes" full time without paying rent, second homes have to be for your exclusive use and enjoyment.

My .02c
Interesting...I didn't know that.  I had always assumed that there was a 50-mile radius rule.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Crispy3 on September 20, 2012, 06:38:59 PM
There isn't a mileage issue with 2nd homes. You can't receive any rent on the property and when the appraiser shows up, don't have your slacker cousin open the door as he cleans up after the party last night. Although family often live in "second homes" full time without paying rent, second homes have to be for your exclusive use and enjoyment.

My .02c
Interesting...I didn't know that.  I had always assumed that there was a 50-mile radius rule.

There is a 50 mile radius rule as far as I know...
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: IrvineRealtor on September 20, 2012, 06:46:50 PM
Just for clarification...

Second home ≠ investment property.

-IR2
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Cubic Zirconia on September 21, 2012, 09:36:20 AM
An update on our refi with Amerisave. I had a little mood swing and sent an email sharing my love and affection with the person who was working on our loan, and we are on track, all documents suddenly found, all notifications now deemed as clerical errors, we are a step away from closing. Like I said before, YAY for the rate, rest sucks :-) USC- ours is a detached condo, may be that's why the delay. They wanted just way too much paperwork.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Homer_Simpson on September 21, 2012, 09:44:53 AM
So I was locked into 3.375% no closing as of today.  yay!
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Cubic Zirconia on September 21, 2012, 09:52:15 AM
So I was locked into 3.375% no closing as of today.  yay!

3.125 with credit today..
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on September 21, 2012, 09:53:02 AM
An update on our refi with Amerisave. I had a little mood swing and sent an email sharing my love and affection with the person who was working on our loan, and we are on track, all documents suddenly found, all notifications now deemed as clerical errors, we are a step away from closing. Like I said before, YAY for the rate, rest sucks :-) USC- ours is a detached condo, may be that's why the delay. They wanted just way too much paperwork.
Yeah, that's how it can be with those guys.  You get the best rate out there but you have to pay for it in terms of spotty service.  They do need up closing but it's not the smoothest process out there.  Best they are the low price leader they do get swamped because a lot of people will want to refi with them so that could be a part of the problem (not enough live bodies over there to handle all the volume that they are getting).
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on September 21, 2012, 09:53:39 AM
So I was locked into 3.375% no closing as of today.  yay!

3.125 with credit today..
3% at no cost coming soon!  haha
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Homer_Simpson on September 21, 2012, 09:55:24 AM
So I was locked into 3.375% no closing as of today.  yay!

3.125 with credit today..
3% at no cost coming soon!  haha

That's a great rate!!  :)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Cubic Zirconia on September 21, 2012, 09:55:39 AM
So I was locked into 3.375% no closing as of today.  yay!

3.125 with credit today..
3% at no cost coming soon!  haha

Love-love-love being a homeowner with the ability to refi :P
When we bought, it was a good 6.125%..
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on September 21, 2012, 09:57:06 AM
So I was locked into 3.375% no closing as of today.  yay!

3.125 with credit today..
3% at no cost coming soon!  haha

Love-love-love being a homeowner with the ability to refi :P
When we bought, it was a good 6.125%..
I agree....I'm refi'ing my home, I refi'ed my dad's home in vegas, and I refi'ed one of my rentals.  I'm just going refi happy in 2012.  Homeownership FTW!
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Homer_Simpson on September 21, 2012, 09:58:24 AM
yay!!!! we should have a home refi party/potluck!! I can bring chicken breast and brussel sprouts  ;)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Cubic Zirconia on September 21, 2012, 09:59:55 AM
yay!!!! we should have a home refi party/potluck!! I can bring chicken breast and brussel sprouts  ;)

I will make kahlua and bailey's enriched protein shake :P (30 gms of protein at least, promise!)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on September 21, 2012, 10:09:22 AM
yay!!!! we should have a home refi party/potluck!! I can bring chicken breast and brussel sprouts  ;)
I'll bring the perogies (poland food I actually like).  haha
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on September 21, 2012, 11:38:16 AM
2.875 no closing!!!


Just kidding. :)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehusky on September 21, 2012, 12:25:12 PM
Assuming someone got a 5 or 7 year ARM earlier this year or last year (assume in the low 2s like under 2.5%), at what point do you say it's just better to go fixed at the low 3s (hopefully, even lower, and refinance) to eliminate the uncertainty after the fixed period ends?  Assume the plan is to stay in the home for a long time.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on September 21, 2012, 01:47:01 PM
Probably any 30 fixed under 3.25% is worth flipping from an ARM to a fixed. Yes, there are some pretty low ARM rates in the mid to low 2's (costs vary), but when you can fix it and forget it at 3.25%, well worth it.

I have to confess not believing things would settle below 3.5% for zero fees, but we're at that point of see 3.5% as the new baseline even through some of the majors, not just the Intarweb funding companies. If you pay for some of your closing fees, you can get rates in the upper 2's and not just on a 10 year fixed loan!

A CPA Question: At what point does the MID really not mean anything? Assuming $400,000 at 2.75% that's $11,000 per year + property tax of somewhere around $5,000 there isn't much benefit from a tax relief perspective on home ownership. Thoughts?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: gaogi on September 21, 2012, 02:04:11 PM
So I've moved in to my new home for about 2.5 months now.  My loan agent gouged me on the rate (long story), so I'm looking to refi.  My cash reserve right now is pretty low since I've pretty much emptied out my savings to buy the house.  I could sell some stocks to bring the cash reserve up, but would the lender see this as unseasoned funds?  I'm pretty much set to refi now, but my cash reserve is the only thing holding me back.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: woodburyowner on September 21, 2012, 02:23:35 PM
So I've moved in to my new home for about 2.5 months now.  My loan agent gouged me on the rate (long story), so I'm looking to refi.  My cash reserve right now is pretty low since I've pretty much emptied out my savings to buy the house.  I could sell some stocks to bring the cash reserve up, but would the lender see this as unseasoned funds?  I'm pretty much set to refi now, but my cash reserve is the only thing holding me back.

You can usually use your 401k account to show cash reserves.  The lender will give you 70-80% (can't remember exact %) credit per dollar in the account.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on September 21, 2012, 02:42:20 PM
Reserves:

Conventional - 2 months, all of which can be in 401k account
FHA - 0 reserves needed.
Over $625,500 Jumbo - under $1,000,000 6 months PITIHOA. Half of that amount can be in a retirement plan.
Over $625,500 Jumbo - over $1,000,000 12 months PITIHOA. Half of that amount can be in a retirement plan.

Retirement plans are valued at 60% of the asset ($100k IRA = $60k available reserves)

Got a rental property? Need 6 months reserves per property, but that's also case by case.

One caveat: The guidelines are 2 months for Conventional, but sometimes the Automated Underwriting Systems (DU / Loan Prospector) prefer multi-month reserves when the application data is run through for approval.

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehusky on September 21, 2012, 03:08:46 PM
Taking your assumption of about a $400K loan, and a zero cost 30 year at 3.5%. 

Would you be able to give me a couple ballpark figures of how much it would cost to bring it down to the upper 2s, etc.?

Thank you very much.

Probably any 30 fixed under 3.25% is worth flipping from an ARM to a fixed. Yes, there are some pretty low ARM rates in the mid to low 2's (costs vary), but when you can fix it and forget it at 3.25%, well worth it.

I have to confess not believing things would settle below 3.5% for zero fees, but we're at that point of see 3.5% as the new baseline even through some of the majors, not just the Intarweb funding companies. If you pay for some of your closing fees, you can get rates in the upper 2's and not just on a 10 year fixed loan!

A CPA Question: At what point does the MID really not mean anything? Assuming $400,000 at 2.75% that's $11,000 per year + property tax of somewhere around $5,000 there isn't much benefit from a tax relief perspective on home ownership. Thoughts?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on September 21, 2012, 04:17:50 PM
Every bank will have slightly better or worse pricing. As well you run into the law of diminishing returns as you go deep on rate.

I'm showing 2.875% costing 4.0 points, plus closing costs for a 45 day lock (80% LTV, Impounds, 781 FICO, Detached Home) through one Bog Box vendor. That's a payment of $1,660 but will cost $18,000 in total fees to get that rate. Talk to USCTrojan about deductible points.

Greenpoint Funding, a long vanished mortgage company, once ran a program to finance that $16,000 into your new loan balance to get a 4ish rate back in the mid 2000's. I'm sure at the time it was a fantastic idea, but not so grand after values collapsed and rates fell to where we are today.

3.00% is 2.75 points (-$5,000 in cost, +$26 per month in payments)

Amerisave is showing $9,500 in total closing costs to get to 2.875%, but that's for a short term lock which is not going to happen.
Greenlight doesn't show that rate, neither does Provident Funding. AIM loans, with a comparable 60 day lock is showing a 3.00% rate for about $10,000 in closing fees. That's pretty much what the Big Box is saying so my guess is that's the market today - 3.0% for $10 - $12k in total fees.


SGIP
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on September 21, 2012, 04:23:24 PM
Just as an education to myself and your listeners... does your company give you access to any loans or are you limited to specific vendors?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on September 21, 2012, 04:38:46 PM
There are three kinds of lenders:

Banks - Lending funds they draw from the Federal Reserve, or sometimes depositor funds to structure mortgage loans.
Mortgage Bankers - (my company) who draw funds from various Banks, close loans in our name, then re-sell a few loans to various investors
Mortgage Brokers  - they package loans and have them underwritten, approved, and funded through the best service provider at the highest rate of return to the broker.

Hey, they're in business to make money so I don't begrudge them trying to make a buck. They aren't however trying to get "the lowest rate" for you. Neither for that matter are Mortgage Bankers or Banks. They're all trying to balance market competitive rates with sustaining income for the company.

Being a mortgage banker and broker, you can see net pricing from Wells, Chase, Citi, etc. Go directly to Wells and you might get 3.25% for 1.0 point. Wells might offer a 1.0 rebate to a mortgage banker or broker at that very same 3.25% because they don't have to deal with their overhead costs. This is why you will get a lower rate from most bankers/brokers even though the loan will end up at Wells, Chase, Citi, etc.

Mature mortgage bankers have acces to a good couple dozen established funding lines. Some of these lines are great for Jumbo's while others are FHA only. Brokers have access to 50 or so companies, but really fund only to a small pool of reliable funding conduits.

My .02c
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on September 21, 2012, 04:45:15 PM
You can deduct paying points to buy down your interest rate for a purchase or a refi, but you have to be careful that some of that deduction isn't phased out via AMT and high income phase-outs.  Rule of thumb that I would use for deciding where to pay extra for a rate buydown is see if it has a 5 year payback (on a gross basis).  Since rates are so low, going down an 1/8% gets more and more expenive so most people shouldn't spend money buying down the rate.  Besideds, if rates keep going lower you can always just refinance to the lower rate later.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on September 21, 2012, 05:20:55 PM
A CPA Question: At what point does the MID really not mean anything? Assuming $400,000 at 2.75% that's $11,000 per year + property tax of somewhere around $5,000 there isn't much benefit from a tax relief perspective on home ownership. Thoughts?

For 2011, the standard deduction for single filers was 5,800 or 11,600 for married filing joinlty. If you assume that you were only itemizing the interest and property taxes for the 16K you mention, then the only tax relief for a married couple filing jointly being provided by the home is difference between 11,600 and 16K, which is 4,400. Take that 4,400 times a combined (fed/state) marginal rate of say 30%, the actual cash savings is 1,320, so in this scenario (also assumes income is low enough for property taxes to still be deductible), your MID and prop taxes are only saving you 1,320, not much at all.

In irvine im guessing there are more higher income earners than most places so the income taxes paid to CA alone are probably higher than the standard deduction, in this scenario, assuming you had enough income, at the combined marginal rate of say 30%, to absorb the entire 16,000 deduction, the the tax benefit would be 16,000 x 30%, which is a tax savings of 4,800.  This is why for people in low home cost areas such as the midwest, a lot of folks dont get much benefit from MID, if any.

not sure if i answered your question or not, i think this is what you were looking for though.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on September 21, 2012, 05:28:28 PM
A CPA Question: At what point does the MID really not mean anything? Assuming $400,000 at 2.75% that's $11,000 per year + property tax of somewhere around $5,000 there isn't much benefit from a tax relief perspective on home ownership. Thoughts?

For 2011, the standard deduction for single filers was 5,800 or 11,600 for married filing joinlty. If you assume that you were only itemizing the interest and property taxes for the 16K you mention, then the only tax relief for a married couple filing jointly being provided by the home is difference between 11,600 and 16K, which is 4,400. Take that 4,400 times a combined (fed/state) marginal rate of say 30%, the actual cash savings is 1,320, so in this scenario (also assumes income is low enough for property taxes to still be deductible), your MID and prop taxes are only saving you 1,320, not much at all.

In irvine im guessing there are more higher income earners than most places so the income taxes paid to CA alone are probably higher than the standard deduction, in this scenario, assuming you had enough income, at the combined marginal rate of say 30%, to absorb the entire 16,000 deduction, the the tax benefit would be 16,000 x 30%, which is a tax savings of 4,800.  This is why for people in low home cost areas such as the midwest, a lot of folks dont get much benefit from MID, if any.

not sure if i answered your question or not, i think this is what you were looking for though.
I'd be a FBC in the midwest.  :P
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on September 21, 2012, 05:28:49 PM
Yep. That works. For the $300k Condo buyer at 3.5% it's looking fairly thin on the tax benefits of home ownership - unless I am still missing something.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Cubic Zirconia on September 22, 2012, 11:39:12 AM
Amerisave update : all set to close this week, rate is 3.25 with 3k+ credit.
Real estate bubble 2.0, here we come.

So, the question now is to prepay or not to prepay considering the rate.. When we had a 3.5 10 YR ARM, I had doubled the payment to pay down the principal. Doesn't make sense now.. Or does it?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on September 22, 2012, 12:52:22 PM
Amerisave update : all set to close this week, rate is 3.25 with 3k+ credit.
Real estate bubble 2.0, here we come.

So, the question now is to prepay or not to prepay considering the rate.. When we had a 3.5 10 YR ARM, I had doubled the payment to pay down the principal. Doesn't make sense now.. Or does it?
Only if you don't believe that you can find better opportunities to make a return greater than 3.25%.  Why not let inflation eat away at your loan and use the money to invest in something else?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: zubs on September 24, 2012, 11:47:19 AM
So I have this question about the 10 year bond and today's rate.

10 yr treasury as of 09/24/2012 ~ 1.722
30 yr mortgage rate as of 09/24/2012 ~ 3.500

I thought the 30 yr mortgage is derived from the 10 yr bond.  If so, then how come the 30 yr mortgage is cheaper now then it was 2 months ago when the 10 yr bond was around 1.5 and the the 30 yr was higher at 3.875?

Why are mortgage rates going down when the 10 yr bond is going up?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on September 24, 2012, 11:50:39 AM
So I have this question about the 10 year bond and today's rate.

10 yr treasury as of 09/24/2012 ~ 1.722
30 yr mortgage rate as of 09/24/2012 ~ 3.500

I thought the 30 yr mortgage is derived from the 10 yr bond.  If so, then how come the 30 yr mortgage is cheaper now then it was 2 months ago when the 10 yr bond was around 1.5 and the the 30 yr was higher at 3.875?
No, 30-year mortgage rates are derived from MBS bonds not the 10-year bond rates.  That being said, they tend to trade in tandum but they do diverge every now again (like they did when the Fed said they'd be buying MBS bonds).  There's a thread on fatwallet that talks about mortgages and there's someone in there that posted how MBS bonds are doing on a daily basis.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on September 24, 2012, 11:54:57 AM
10 Y-T is an indicative gauge, but not one that sets the price of a mortgage rate. Mortgage Backed Securities (MBS) are what the Fed is buying and those MBS's set the price of a mortgage rate.

Unfortunately without a Bloomberg terminal or pay access through services Mortgage Market Guide it's near impossible to get real time MBS data. Mortgage News Daily has about an hours lag on MBS pricing, but that resource does show accurately the change in pricing for MBS's. These MBS's are rallying while many investors roll out of Treasury debt. Although MBS's aren't "Government Guaranteed" they are in essence when the Fed is buying them all up.

USC you are a faster typist than I which is cause for the similar post data.

Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: zovall on September 24, 2012, 01:10:42 PM
I'm glad the pros have spoken :)

I use the charts on Mortgage News Daily to see MBS pricing (I think it is what SGIP is referring to).  Note that you need to track the most applicable MBS.  The link below tracks the 30 Year Fannie Mae 3.0% MBS:
http://www.mortgagenewsdaily.com/mbs/charts.aspx?Product=FNMA30&interval=5

And I believe this is the Fatwallet thread USC is referring to:
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/788032/
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on September 24, 2012, 01:30:05 PM
10 Y-T is an indicative gauge, but not one that sets the price of a mortgage rate. Mortgage Backed Securities (MBS) are what the Fed is buying and those MBS's set the price of a mortgage rate.

Unfortunately without a Bloomberg terminal or pay access through services Mortgage Market Guide it's near impossible to get real time MBS data. Mortgage News Daily has about an hours lag on MBS pricing, but that resource does show accurately the change in pricing for MBS's. These MBS's are rallying while many investors roll out of Treasury debt. Although MBS's aren't "Government Guaranteed" they are in essence when the Fed is buying them all up.

USC you are a faster typist than I which is cause for the similar post data.


I have youth behind me.  haha  But I like how you fill the gaps on my threads to give a nice in depth touch to what I might have said.  Your posts expand on my posts very nicely.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on September 24, 2012, 01:32:59 PM
I'm glad the pros have spoken :)

I use the charts on Mortgage News Daily to see MBS pricing (I think it is what SGIP is referring to).  Note that you need to track the most applicable MBS.  The link below tracks the 30 Year Fannie Mae 3.0% MBS:
http://www.mortgagenewsdaily.com/mbs/charts.aspx?Product=FNMA30&interval=5

And I believe this is the Fatwallet thread USC is referring to:
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/788032/
When you see the person posting +8 or -5 (in 32 increments...+8/32 or -5/32) they are taking about the movement in price of the most relevant MBS bond (the 30-year Fannie 3.0% coupon at the moment).  Also, just because the pricing of the MBS bond increases (and the yield falls) doesn't mean that lenders (some or all) will re-price their interest rate sheet.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: zubs on September 24, 2012, 03:39:11 PM
Thanks for the answers.  I usually look at the 10 yr bond to see where mortgages are heading, but I guess that won't work now.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on September 26, 2012, 11:52:38 AM
If Europe flares up, we are going to 3% on the 30-year fixed...maybe even a touch lower.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Homer_Simpson on October 09, 2012, 02:24:34 PM
My buddy just refied his home with a 3.375% rate and had about $1800 worth of credit leftover.. the mortgage guy told him he can use that toward his property taxes.. is this true?  can he just get it in cash form?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on October 09, 2012, 02:40:33 PM
Impound account?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: akim997 on October 09, 2012, 02:44:36 PM
a lot of people i know just got a check back for whatever was left over. 

The lowest I've seen the 30 year (for a $625K agency jumbo) is 3.5% with zero points.  Today, its still at 3.625% (from what I've been told).  Has anyone seen lower?   I locked at 3.625% w/ no points. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on October 09, 2012, 02:56:13 PM
So who is everyone going through to get these credits... I see CZ used Amerisave.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Homer_Simpson on October 09, 2012, 03:16:15 PM
mortgage broker.  :P
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehusky on October 09, 2012, 04:17:54 PM
The mortgage broker I used when I purchased the house quoted 3.375% 30 year fixed with $500 for the appraisal as the only cost.  No impound, I can purchase own homeowner's insurance, no early payment penalty. That was about 2 weeks ago so things might have changed.  I've been unscientifically taking screenshots of 30 year fixed rates from Provident Funding and Amerisave (not every day) for about the last week or so but the credits have shrunk about $3500.  So, definitely going the wrong way right now, but still great.

I know many of you are in the process of closing on homes so you all must have gotten decent rates.

If you're refinancing, why are you?  To squeeze out as much as you can (Greed is good)?  Nothing wrong with that.

For me, I started out with the great ARM (5/7 year) strategy that USCTrojan described on these boards but with the 30 year rates down so much, lately I've been thinking I would like to remove the unknown after the fixed period.  I hate to say it so I don't jinx myself...but it probably won't go much lower than now.   :P  Rates may stay very low for a long time but who knows what will happen? 

When I bought my first condo, the 30 year was about 12%.  Even then, the rates dropped around when I purchased so I felt "lucky".  Then, many years later, when one bank gave me a refinance quote much lower than others at 6.5%, I felt I was robbing the bank or they mistook me for a high roller or a scam.  But it was Wells Fargo so that made me feel a little comfortable.  Mid to low 3s?  Who would have thought it would be possible?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on October 09, 2012, 04:21:39 PM
The mortgage broker I used when I purchased the house quoted 3.375% 30 year fixed with $500 for the appraisal as the only cost.  No impound, I can purchase own homeowner's insurance, no early payment penalty. That was about 2 weeks ago so things might have changed.  I've been unscientifically taking screenshots of 30 year fixed rates from Provident Funding and Amerisave (not every day) for about the last week or so but the credits have shrunk about $3500.  So, definitely going the wrong way right now, but still great.

I know many of you are in the process of closing on homes so you all must have gotten decent rates.

If you're refinancing, why are you?  To squeeze out as much as you can (Greed is good)?  Nothing wrong with that.

For me, I started out with the great ARM (5/7 year) strategy that USCTrojan described on these boards but with the 30 year rates down so much, lately I've been thinking I would like to remove the unknown after the fixed period.  I hate to say it so I don't jinx myself...but it probably won't go much lower than now.   :P  Rates may stay very low for a long time but who knows what will happen? 

When I bought my first condo, the 30 year was about 12%.  Even then, the rates dropped around when I purchased so I felt "lucky".  Then, many years later, when one bank gave me a refinance quote much lower than others at 6.5%, I felt I was robbing the bank or they mistook me for a high roller or a scam.  But it was Wells Fargo so that made me feel a little comfortable.  Mid to low 3s?  Who would have thought it would be possible?
I know that I didn't if you would have asked me years ago, but in the past year or so I've started to realize the FED wants to jump start housing so I figured 30-year rates might have an outside shot of getting to 3%.  Will they get there or go a little lower?  Who knows, anything is possible.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: woodburyowner on October 10, 2012, 09:13:07 AM
I've done 2 refi's in the past 4 months.  First one through Provident, I netted around 3k and second one, through BoxHomeLoans, I netted $800.  Now I'm $3800 richer with a 3.5% interest rate on my agency jumbo loan. :)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on October 10, 2012, 10:02:05 AM
I think I need to find another broker.

A refi I'm getting quoted for has costs and only a 3.50% rate (conforming). I checked Amerisave and theirs is 3.375% and you get $4400 back... boo.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: woodburyowner on October 10, 2012, 10:25:28 AM
I think I need to find another broker.

A refi I'm getting quoted for has costs and only a 3.50% rate (conforming). I checked Amerisave and theirs is 3.375% and you get $4400 back... boo.

Definitely.  If your finances are solid, then go the online lender route.  It's strange how I have to convince friends and family to ditch their broker that they've been using for years to go with an online lender.  A lot of times, they don't trust the online lender or they think there is a catch, etc.  I've done it twice now and I can say that I'll never go to a broker again (unless they match/beat the online prices).  The difference is usually in the thousands of dollars and in some cases, the process is actually much smoother.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehusky on October 10, 2012, 01:48:23 PM
Good grief,

My present loan is with Provident but as you probably know, they're a really pain in the you know what to get to closing.  You must like
pain?  :P  But $3800 is nice.

I'm not sure if it's the same with all the deals but I was told that once you lock, unless it goes down quite a bit, you're stuck.  Well, locking works both ways.  Maybe if it goes down to the high 2s we'll all be refi'ing again.

I've done 2 refi's in the past 4 months.  First one through Provident, I netted around 3k and second one, through BoxHomeLoans, I netted $800.  Now I'm $3800 richer with a 3.5% interest rate on my agency jumbo loan. :)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: akim997 on October 10, 2012, 02:26:17 PM
Brokers are definitely not easy.  I think they ask for more because they don't want the loan to come back to them.   I've had to provide some interesting documentation... I won't be suprised if "take a picture of your left nut and send it w a medallion guarantee" is a future requirement...   
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: woodburyowner on October 10, 2012, 04:07:51 PM
Good grief,

My present loan is with Provident but as you probably know, they're a really pain in the you know what to get to closing.  You must like
pain?  :P  But $3800 is nice.

I'm not sure if it's the same with all the deals but I was told that once you lock, unless it goes down quite a bit, you're stuck.  Well, locking works both ways.  Maybe if it goes down to the high 2s we'll all be refi'ing again.

To be honest, my experience with Provident was pretty easy.  BHL was a bit more work to deal with since they pass your file along to multiple "processors" during the refi process.  Each have a specific job to do, but some will miss something and then it will get caught later when it is crunch time.  I hate being asked for information I already provided and it happened a few times with BHL.  With Provident, you deal with just 2 people and it was much more smooth. 

My financials are very clean so there wasn't anything out of the ordinary requested.   Maybe I got lucky....
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Crispy3 on October 10, 2012, 10:01:24 PM

I locked with Amerisave a couple of weeks ago @ 3.5 with 6800 credit towards closing for a 624k loan (I was pretty lucky with timing). But I am pretty concerned since I am two days late on releasing contingencies and I still have not gotten underwriter approval yet for the loan.. I keep calling Amerisave everyday for a ETA but they seem to have no clue on when the underwriter would get back to them... 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on October 10, 2012, 10:08:47 PM

I locked with Amerisave a couple of weeks ago @ 3.5 with 6800 credit towards closing for a 624k loan (I was pretty lucky with timing). But I am pretty concerned since I am two days late on releasing contingencies and I still have not gotten underwriter approval yet for the loan.. I keep calling Amerisave everyday for a ETA but they seem to have no clue on when the underwriter would get back to them... 
I would have opted to go with Provident versus Amerisave for a purchase (amerisave can be slow).  I'd only use them for refi's.  Keep us posted on the status.  Has the appraisal been done and reviewed?  Have you completed the inspection and gotten the HOA docs?  If so, you can lift all the contingencies EXCEPT for the loan contingency if the seller/listing agent push you.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on October 10, 2012, 10:11:15 PM
Good grief,

My present loan is with Provident but as you probably know, they're a really pain in the you know what to get to closing.  You must like
pain?  :P  But $3800 is nice.

I'm not sure if it's the same with all the deals but I was told that once you lock, unless it goes down quite a bit, you're stuck.  Well, locking works both ways.  Maybe if it goes down to the high 2s we'll all be refi'ing again.

To be honest, my experience with Provident was pretty easy.  BHL was a bit more work to deal with since they pass your file along to multiple "processors" during the refi process.  Each have a specific job to do, but some will miss something and then it will get caught later when it is crunch time.  I hate being asked for information I already provided and it happened a few times with BHL.  With Provident, you deal with just 2 people and it was much more smooth. 

My financials are very clean so there wasn't anything out of the ordinary requested.   Maybe I got lucky....

No way could I ever go with Provident....I have way too many things going on with my finances.  Hell, my tax return is over 60 pages.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Crispy3 on October 10, 2012, 10:23:09 PM

I locked with Amerisave a couple of weeks ago @ 3.5 with 6800 credit towards closing for a 624k loan (I was pretty lucky with timing). But I am pretty concerned since I am two days late on releasing contingencies and I still have not gotten underwriter approval yet for the loan.. I keep calling Amerisave everyday for a ETA but they seem to have no clue on when the underwriter would get back to them... 
I would have opted to go with Provident versus Amerisave for a purchase (amerisave can be slow).  I'd only use them for refi's.  Keep us posted on the status.  Has the appraisal been done and reviewed?  Have you completed the inspection and gotten the HOA docs?  If so, you can lift all the contingencies EXCEPT for the loan contingency if the seller/listing agent push you.

yep I've done everything else and released all but loan contingency... but loan contingency is what burned the sellers last time.. (this fell out of escrow) so they have a right to be concerned...
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on October 10, 2012, 10:41:33 PM

I locked with Amerisave a couple of weeks ago @ 3.5 with 6800 credit towards closing for a 624k loan (I was pretty lucky with timing). But I am pretty concerned since I am two days late on releasing contingencies and I still have not gotten underwriter approval yet for the loan.. I keep calling Amerisave everyday for a ETA but they seem to have no clue on when the underwriter would get back to them... 
I would have opted to go with Provident versus Amerisave for a purchase (amerisave can be slow).  I'd only use them for refi's.  Keep us posted on the status.  Has the appraisal been done and reviewed?  Have you completed the inspection and gotten the HOA docs?  If so, you can lift all the contingencies EXCEPT for the loan contingency if the seller/listing agent push you.

yep I've done everything else and released all but loan contingency... but loan contingency is what burned the sellers last time.. (this fell out of escrow) so they have a right to be concerned...
Just keep the lines of communication open and let them know the status.  As soon as you get conditional approval, that might be when you lift the loan contingency.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: jlam on October 11, 2012, 08:04:50 AM
I locked in my refinance with Provident a couple of weeks ago at super conforming at 3.375% with $3700 back.  This goes to cover the fees and prepaid interest and I net about $800, which I can use to pay down principal or just pocket.  I used Provident's calculator to time my refinance.  So long as you have good financials, the calculator is accurate with what they can offer you.  This morning, the same loan will COST YOU $4,400...yikes.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: fluffy on October 11, 2012, 01:09:31 PM
Good grief,

My present loan is with Provident but as you probably know, they're a really pain in the you know what to get to closing.  You must like
pain?  :P  But $3800 is nice.

I'm not sure if it's the same with all the deals but I was told that once you lock, unless it goes down quite a bit, you're stuck.  Well, locking works both ways.  Maybe if it goes down to the high 2s we'll all be refi'ing again.

To be honest, my experience with Provident was pretty easy.  BHL was a bit more work to deal with since they pass your file along to multiple "processors" during the refi process.  Each have a specific job to do, but some will miss something and then it will get caught later when it is crunch time.  I hate being asked for information I already provided and it happened a few times with BHL.  With Provident, you deal with just 2 people and it was much more smooth. 

My financials are very clean so there wasn't anything out of the ordinary requested.   Maybe I got lucky....

No way could I ever go with Provident....I have way too many things going on with my finances.  Hell, my tax return is over 60 pages.

haha i am curious to how much u write off... lol...
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on October 11, 2012, 01:22:14 PM
Good grief,

My present loan is with Provident but as you probably know, they're a really pain in the you know what to get to closing.  You must like
pain?  :P  But $3800 is nice.

I'm not sure if it's the same with all the deals but I was told that once you lock, unless it goes down quite a bit, you're stuck.  Well, locking works both ways.  Maybe if it goes down to the high 2s we'll all be refi'ing again.

To be honest, my experience with Provident was pretty easy.  BHL was a bit more work to deal with since they pass your file along to multiple "processors" during the refi process.  Each have a specific job to do, but some will miss something and then it will get caught later when it is crunch time.  I hate being asked for information I already provided and it happened a few times with BHL.  With Provident, you deal with just 2 people and it was much more smooth. 

My financials are very clean so there wasn't anything out of the ordinary requested.   Maybe I got lucky....

No way could I ever go with Provident....I have way too many things going on with my finances.  Hell, my tax return is over 60 pages.

haha i am curious to how much u write off... lol...
I have several rental properties, various streams of income, short/long term gains on options trading, a 2nd home (where my dad lives), my primary residence, and all my business related expenses.  I think the trading activity takes up 10-15 pages.  The underwriters that had my loan files were probably not happy campers, I was the complete opposite of a vanilla borrower.  There was a lot of email explanations, additional documents that I needed to provide, and several letters of explanation detailing various things.  I write off whatever I'm legally entitled to write off per IRs regulations.   :P
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Cubic Zirconia on October 11, 2012, 01:24:57 PM
Good grief,

My present loan is with Provident but as you probably know, they're a really pain in the you know what to get to closing.  You must like
pain?  :P  But $3800 is nice.

I'm not sure if it's the same with all the deals but I was told that once you lock, unless it goes down quite a bit, you're stuck.  Well, locking works both ways.  Maybe if it goes down to the high 2s we'll all be refi'ing again.

To be honest, my experience with Provident was pretty easy.  BHL was a bit more work to deal with since they pass your file along to multiple "processors" during the refi process.  Each have a specific job to do, but some will miss something and then it will get caught later when it is crunch time.  I hate being asked for information I already provided and it happened a few times with BHL.  With Provident, you deal with just 2 people and it was much more smooth. 

My financials are very clean so there wasn't anything out of the ordinary requested.   Maybe I got lucky....

No way could I ever go with Provident....I have way too many things going on with my finances.  Hell, my tax return is over 60 pages.

haha i am curious to how much u write off... lol...
I have several rental properties, various streams of income, short/long term gains on options trading, a 2nd home (where my dad lives), my primary residence, and all my business related expenses.  I think the trading activity takes up 10-15 pages.  The underwriters that had my loan files were probably not happy campers, I was the complete opposite of a vanilla borrower.  There was a lot of email explanations, additional documents that I needed to provide, and several letters of explanation detailing various things.  I write off whatever I'm legally entitled to write off per IRs regulations.   :P

Anything that you DON'T do USC?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: fluffy on October 11, 2012, 01:35:58 PM
Good grief,

My present loan is with Provident but as you probably know, they're a really pain in the you know what to get to closing.  You must like
pain?  :P  But $3800 is nice.

I'm not sure if it's the same with all the deals but I was told that once you lock, unless it goes down quite a bit, you're stuck.  Well, locking works both ways.  Maybe if it goes down to the high 2s we'll all be refi'ing again.

To be honest, my experience with Provident was pretty easy.  BHL was a bit more work to deal with since they pass your file along to multiple "processors" during the refi process.  Each have a specific job to do, but some will miss something and then it will get caught later when it is crunch time.  I hate being asked for information I already provided and it happened a few times with BHL.  With Provident, you deal with just 2 people and it was much more smooth. 

My financials are very clean so there wasn't anything out of the ordinary requested.   Maybe I got lucky....

No way could I ever go with Provident....I have way too many things going on with my finances.  Hell, my tax return is over 60 pages.

haha i am curious to how much u write off... lol...
I have several rental properties, various streams of income, short/long term gains on options trading, a 2nd home (where my dad lives), my primary residence, and all my business related expenses.  I think the trading activity takes up 10-15 pages.  The underwriters that had my loan files were probably not happy campers, I was the complete opposite of a vanilla borrower.  There was a lot of email explanations, additional documents that I needed to provide, and several letters of explanation detailing various things.  I write off whatever I'm legally entitled to write off per IRs regulations.   :P

Anything that you DON'T do USC?

i tend to prefer the the holdings company path style... for ur rental properties, do u hold it under a REIT? if u dont feel comfy talking about taxes u dont have to respond... i ask cause im not a CPA so everything i do ive learned from rich ppl guiding me, so im always interested in learning new tactics/strategies... i actually learned a few tricks cause of romney (since theres all these pundits out there that wrote articles on how they would have done it via trust funds etc if they were romney)... haha perfectly legal of course... to me, only idiots dont take advantage of it... lol hey no argument there, no one says the tax rate is the maximum u can pay uncle sam, since everybody is always free to willingly pay more on their tax returns if they feel benevolent , right? hahahaha
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on October 11, 2012, 01:40:59 PM
Good grief,

My present loan is with Provident but as you probably know, they're a really pain in the you know what to get to closing.  You must like
pain?  :P  But $3800 is nice.

I'm not sure if it's the same with all the deals but I was told that once you lock, unless it goes down quite a bit, you're stuck.  Well, locking works both ways.  Maybe if it goes down to the high 2s we'll all be refi'ing again.

To be honest, my experience with Provident was pretty easy.  BHL was a bit more work to deal with since they pass your file along to multiple "processors" during the refi process.  Each have a specific job to do, but some will miss something and then it will get caught later when it is crunch time.  I hate being asked for information I already provided and it happened a few times with BHL.  With Provident, you deal with just 2 people and it was much more smooth. 

My financials are very clean so there wasn't anything out of the ordinary requested.   Maybe I got lucky....

No way could I ever go with Provident....I have way too many things going on with my finances.  Hell, my tax return is over 60 pages.

haha i am curious to how much u write off... lol...
I have several rental properties, various streams of income, short/long term gains on options trading, a 2nd home (where my dad lives), my primary residence, and all my business related expenses.  I think the trading activity takes up 10-15 pages.  The underwriters that had my loan files were probably not happy campers, I was the complete opposite of a vanilla borrower.  There was a lot of email explanations, additional documents that I needed to provide, and several letters of explanation detailing various things.  I write off whatever I'm legally entitled to write off per IRs regulations.   :P

Anything that you DON'T do USC?
Running a hedge fund.  haha
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: fluffy on October 11, 2012, 01:47:50 PM
Good grief,

My present loan is with Provident but as you probably know, they're a really pain in the you know what to get to closing.  You must like
pain?  :P  But $3800 is nice.

I'm not sure if it's the same with all the deals but I was told that once you lock, unless it goes down quite a bit, you're stuck.  Well, locking works both ways.  Maybe if it goes down to the high 2s we'll all be refi'ing again.

To be honest, my experience with Provident was pretty easy.  BHL was a bit more work to deal with since they pass your file along to multiple "processors" during the refi process.  Each have a specific job to do, but some will miss something and then it will get caught later when it is crunch time.  I hate being asked for information I already provided and it happened a few times with BHL.  With Provident, you deal with just 2 people and it was much more smooth. 

My financials are very clean so there wasn't anything out of the ordinary requested.   Maybe I got lucky....

No way could I ever go with Provident....I have way too many things going on with my finances.  Hell, my tax return is over 60 pages.

haha i am curious to how much u write off... lol...
I have several rental properties, various streams of income, short/long term gains on options trading, a 2nd home (where my dad lives), my primary residence, and all my business related expenses.  I think the trading activity takes up 10-15 pages.  The underwriters that had my loan files were probably not happy campers, I was the complete opposite of a vanilla borrower.  There was a lot of email explanations, additional documents that I needed to provide, and several letters of explanation detailing various things.  I write off whatever I'm legally entitled to write off per IRs regulations.   :P

Anything that you DON'T do USC?
Running a hedge fund.  haha

lol technically ur transfer of income to stock equity is by definition a mini-micro fund lol... there are lots of hedge funds that only play with one individuals wealth only and dont play with other ppls wealth, haha ur just not big enough to call "hedge" fund hahaha... ull soon get there if u do well hehe :)...
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on October 11, 2012, 01:50:29 PM
Good grief,

My present loan is with Provident but as you probably know, they're a really pain in the you know what to get to closing.  You must like
pain?  :P  But $3800 is nice.

I'm not sure if it's the same with all the deals but I was told that once you lock, unless it goes down quite a bit, you're stuck.  Well, locking works both ways.  Maybe if it goes down to the high 2s we'll all be refi'ing again.

To be honest, my experience with Provident was pretty easy.  BHL was a bit more work to deal with since they pass your file along to multiple "processors" during the refi process.  Each have a specific job to do, but some will miss something and then it will get caught later when it is crunch time.  I hate being asked for information I already provided and it happened a few times with BHL.  With Provident, you deal with just 2 people and it was much more smooth. 

My financials are very clean so there wasn't anything out of the ordinary requested.   Maybe I got lucky....

No way could I ever go with Provident....I have way too many things going on with my finances.  Hell, my tax return is over 60 pages.

haha i am curious to how much u write off... lol...
I have several rental properties, various streams of income, short/long term gains on options trading, a 2nd home (where my dad lives), my primary residence, and all my business related expenses.  I think the trading activity takes up 10-15 pages.  The underwriters that had my loan files were probably not happy campers, I was the complete opposite of a vanilla borrower.  There was a lot of email explanations, additional documents that I needed to provide, and several letters of explanation detailing various things.  I write off whatever I'm legally entitled to write off per IRs regulations.   :P

Anything that you DON'T do USC?

i tend to prefer the the holdings company path style... for ur rental properties, do u hold it under a REIT? if u dont feel comfy talking about taxes u dont have to respond... i ask cause im not a CPA so everything i do ive learned from rich ppl guiding me, so im always interested in learning new tactics/strategies... i actually learned a few tricks cause of romney (since theres all these pundits out there that wrote articles on how they would have done it via trust funds etc if they were romney)... haha perfectly legal of course... to me, only idiots dont take advantage of it... lol hey no argument there, no one says the tax rate is the maximum u can pay uncle sam, since everybody is always free to willingly pay more on their tax returns if they feel benevolent , right? hahahaha
I've considered using LLCs and/or S-corps but at the end of the day the cost didn't justify the benefits for me so I just report them on my Schedule E.  Because I'm considered a full-time real estate professional I'm not bound by the IRS active real estate tax losses income limitations.  I have general umbrella liability insurance that I got to cover me for the rentals.  I read a lot on the IRS website and if there are ways for me to reduce my tax liability then I do those things. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Crispy3 on October 15, 2012, 04:26:46 PM
Good grief,

My present loan is with Provident but as you probably know, they're a really pain in the you know what to get to closing.  You must like
pain?  :P  But $3800 is nice.

I'm not sure if it's the same with all the deals but I was told that once you lock, unless it goes down quite a bit, you're stuck.  Well, locking works both ways.  Maybe if it goes down to the high 2s we'll all be refi'ing again.

To be honest, my experience with Provident was pretty easy.  BHL was a bit more work to deal with since they pass your file along to multiple "processors" during the refi process.  Each have a specific job to do, but some will miss something and then it will get caught later when it is crunch time.  I hate being asked for information I already provided and it happened a few times with BHL.  With Provident, you deal with just 2 people and it was much more smooth. 

My financials are very clean so there wasn't anything out of the ordinary requested.   Maybe I got lucky....

No way could I ever go with Provident....I have way too many things going on with my finances.  Hell, my tax return is over 60 pages.

haha i am curious to how much u write off... lol...
I have several rental properties, various streams of income, short/long term gains on options trading, a 2nd home (where my dad lives), my primary residence, and all my business related expenses.  I think the trading activity takes up 10-15 pages.  The underwriters that had my loan files were probably not happy campers, I was the complete opposite of a vanilla borrower.  There was a lot of email explanations, additional documents that I needed to provide, and several letters of explanation detailing various things.  I write off whatever I'm legally entitled to write off per IRs regulations.   :P

I just submitted my 12th Letter of Explanation to Amerisave this morn..
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Crispy3 on October 15, 2012, 04:30:12 PM
Good grief,

My present loan is with Provident but as you probably know, they're a really pain in the you know what to get to closing.  You must like
pain?  :P  But $3800 is nice.

I'm not sure if it's the same with all the deals but I was told that once you lock, unless it goes down quite a bit, you're stuck.  Well, locking works both ways.  Maybe if it goes down to the high 2s we'll all be refi'ing again.

To be honest, my experience with Provident was pretty easy.  BHL was a bit more work to deal with since they pass your file along to multiple "processors" during the refi process.  Each have a specific job to do, but some will miss something and then it will get caught later when it is crunch time.  I hate being asked for information I already provided and it happened a few times with BHL.  With Provident, you deal with just 2 people and it was much more smooth. 

My financials are very clean so there wasn't anything out of the ordinary requested.   Maybe I got lucky....

No way could I ever go with Provident....I have way too many things going on with my finances.  Hell, my tax return is over 60 pages.

haha i am curious to how much u write off... lol...
I have several rental properties, various streams of income, short/long term gains on options trading, a 2nd home (where my dad lives), my primary residence, and all my business related expenses.  I think the trading activity takes up 10-15 pages.  The underwriters that had my loan files were probably not happy campers, I was the complete opposite of a vanilla borrower.  There was a lot of email explanations, additional documents that I needed to provide, and several letters of explanation detailing various things.  I write off whatever I'm legally entitled to write off per IRs regulations.   :P

Anything that you DON'T do USC?

i tend to prefer the the holdings company path style... for ur rental properties, do u hold it under a REIT? if u dont feel comfy talking about taxes u dont have to respond... i ask cause im not a CPA so everything i do ive learned from rich ppl guiding me, so im always interested in learning new tactics/strategies... i actually learned a few tricks cause of romney (since theres all these pundits out there that wrote articles on how they would have done it via trust funds etc if they were romney)... haha perfectly legal of course... to me, only idiots dont take advantage of it... lol hey no argument there, no one says the tax rate is the maximum u can pay uncle sam, since everybody is always free to willingly pay more on their tax returns if they feel benevolent , right? hahahaha
I've considered using LLCs and/or S-corps but at the end of the day the cost didn't justify the benefits for me so I just report them on my Schedule E.  Because I'm considered a full-time real estate professional I'm not bound by the IRS active real estate tax losses income limitations.  I have general umbrella liability insurance that I got to cover me for the rentals.  I read a lot on the IRS website and if there are ways for me to reduce my tax liability then I do those things.

single member llc in CA gets passed to individual anyway??? I have a llc for just a couple of rentals... are you telling me that I'm not gaining anything by forming an llc for it?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on October 15, 2012, 04:42:29 PM
Good grief,

My present loan is with Provident but as you probably know, they're a really pain in the you know what to get to closing.  You must like
pain?  :P  But $3800 is nice.

I'm not sure if it's the same with all the deals but I was told that once you lock, unless it goes down quite a bit, you're stuck.  Well, locking works both ways.  Maybe if it goes down to the high 2s we'll all be refi'ing again.

To be honest, my experience with Provident was pretty easy.  BHL was a bit more work to deal with since they pass your file along to multiple "processors" during the refi process.  Each have a specific job to do, but some will miss something and then it will get caught later when it is crunch time.  I hate being asked for information I already provided and it happened a few times with BHL.  With Provident, you deal with just 2 people and it was much more smooth. 

My financials are very clean so there wasn't anything out of the ordinary requested.   Maybe I got lucky....

No way could I ever go with Provident....I have way too many things going on with my finances.  Hell, my tax return is over 60 pages.

haha i am curious to how much u write off... lol...
I have several rental properties, various streams of income, short/long term gains on options trading, a 2nd home (where my dad lives), my primary residence, and all my business related expenses.  I think the trading activity takes up 10-15 pages.  The underwriters that had my loan files were probably not happy campers, I was the complete opposite of a vanilla borrower.  There was a lot of email explanations, additional documents that I needed to provide, and several letters of explanation detailing various things.  I write off whatever I'm legally entitled to write off per IRs regulations.   :P

I just submitted my 12th Letter of Explanation to Amerisave this morn..
Wow, you beat me....I had 8 letters of explanations to close on my loan to purchase my house.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on October 15, 2012, 04:44:42 PM
Good grief,

My present loan is with Provident but as you probably know, they're a really pain in the you know what to get to closing.  You must like
pain?  :P  But $3800 is nice.

I'm not sure if it's the same with all the deals but I was told that once you lock, unless it goes down quite a bit, you're stuck.  Well, locking works both ways.  Maybe if it goes down to the high 2s we'll all be refi'ing again.

To be honest, my experience with Provident was pretty easy.  BHL was a bit more work to deal with since they pass your file along to multiple "processors" during the refi process.  Each have a specific job to do, but some will miss something and then it will get caught later when it is crunch time.  I hate being asked for information I already provided and it happened a few times with BHL.  With Provident, you deal with just 2 people and it was much more smooth. 

My financials are very clean so there wasn't anything out of the ordinary requested.   Maybe I got lucky....

No way could I ever go with Provident....I have way too many things going on with my finances.  Hell, my tax return is over 60 pages.

haha i am curious to how much u write off... lol...
I have several rental properties, various streams of income, short/long term gains on options trading, a 2nd home (where my dad lives), my primary residence, and all my business related expenses.  I think the trading activity takes up 10-15 pages.  The underwriters that had my loan files were probably not happy campers, I was the complete opposite of a vanilla borrower.  There was a lot of email explanations, additional documents that I needed to provide, and several letters of explanation detailing various things.  I write off whatever I'm legally entitled to write off per IRs regulations.   :P

Anything that you DON'T do USC?

i tend to prefer the the holdings company path style... for ur rental properties, do u hold it under a REIT? if u dont feel comfy talking about taxes u dont have to respond... i ask cause im not a CPA so everything i do ive learned from rich ppl guiding me, so im always interested in learning new tactics/strategies... i actually learned a few tricks cause of romney (since theres all these pundits out there that wrote articles on how they would have done it via trust funds etc if they were romney)... haha perfectly legal of course... to me, only idiots dont take advantage of it... lol hey no argument there, no one says the tax rate is the maximum u can pay uncle sam, since everybody is always free to willingly pay more on their tax returns if they feel benevolent , right? hahahaha
I've considered using LLCs and/or S-corps but at the end of the day the cost didn't justify the benefits for me so I just report them on my Schedule E.  Because I'm considered a full-time real estate professional I'm not bound by the IRS active real estate tax losses income limitations.  I have general umbrella liability insurance that I got to cover me for the rentals.  I read a lot on the IRS website and if there are ways for me to reduce my tax liability then I do those things.

single member llc in CA gets passed to individual anyway??? I have a llc for just a couple of rentals... are you telling me that I'm not gaining anything by forming an llc for it?
The only thing that you gain is liability protection.  Single member LLCs do not file 1065s, they are flow through entities that get reported on either Schedule C (if you have a non real estate rental generating business) or Schedule E (for real estate generating businesses).  Your CPA didn't tell you that???
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: fluffy on October 16, 2012, 02:55:11 AM
yeah my understanding is the same too, only partnership llcs can elect the scorp route... sole member is pass through...

not necessarily completely useless... depends on which state u file ur taxes in and where ur llc is incorporated (ur cpa may have incorporated u in delaware/nevada so ur saving via that route instead by side stepping california state n california llc tax/fee) lol...

i think irvine pacific is incorporated in delaware too... tham basterds~ lol
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on October 16, 2012, 11:20:10 AM
not necessarily completely useless... depends on which state u file ur taxes in and where ur llc is incorporated (ur cpa may have incorporated u in delaware/nevada so ur saving via that route instead by side stepping california state n california llc tax/fee) lol...

i think irvine pacific is incorporated in delaware too... tham basterds~ lol

Chaos - FYI, where a company is incorporated has little to do about where it pays taxes. The incorporation in Delaware is due to favorable laws (takeovers, etc) and ease of setup, but just because a company is incorporated in Delaware or Nevada it doesnt mean it pays taxes in that state at some lower rate or none at all.  You do have to pay your state of incorporation fees every year and that is calculated based on net assets or stock calculation.

Regarding the taxes though, a company pays taxes on earnings depending on the state in which those earnings are generated. A company apportions its income to various states - typically most companies do an apportionment analysis every year to determine where they have a tax liability and need to file a tax return. I can guarantee you that The Irvine Company pays California a hefty amount of taxes each year on the profits from the new home building in irvine as well as all of its rental income located in California.  Same thing with an LLC, it may be incorporated in Nevada where there is no corporate income tax, but if all of the LLC's work is being performed in CA because the owner is here and is a resident of CA, then the LLC will pay taxes on all of its earning based on CA tax rates even though the LLC is based in Nevada.  Essentially in any state where a company operates is has established nexxus (a presence that requires you to pay taxes in that state).  Similar rules apply to regular employees, if you are a CA resident and you are say a consultant who works half the year in NYC, you will bay income taxes both in CA an NY.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: fluffy on October 16, 2012, 04:03:57 PM
im a bit confused... how come these lower tax states like nevada always advertise like no corporate tax, no personal tax?...
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on October 16, 2012, 04:15:33 PM
im a bit confused... how come these lower tax states like nevada always advertise like no corporate tax, no personal tax?...

if you open up a business in Nevada, like a new casino, the casino would not pay state taxes.  If you are a resident of nevada and work for a company there, you will not pay state income taxes.  Using your llc examples you can set up an LLC and have all of your operations in CA, you would pay taxes in CA, but not Nevada - so there advertisements are correct.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Crispy3 on October 16, 2012, 05:47:06 PM
Good grief,

My present loan is with Provident but as you probably know, they're a really pain in the you know what to get to closing.  You must like
pain?  :P  But $3800 is nice.

I'm not sure if it's the same with all the deals but I was told that once you lock, unless it goes down quite a bit, you're stuck.  Well, locking works both ways.  Maybe if it goes down to the high 2s we'll all be refi'ing again.

To be honest, my experience with Provident was pretty easy.  BHL was a bit more work to deal with since they pass your file along to multiple "processors" during the refi process.  Each have a specific job to do, but some will miss something and then it will get caught later when it is crunch time.  I hate being asked for information I already provided and it happened a few times with BHL.  With Provident, you deal with just 2 people and it was much more smooth. 

My financials are very clean so there wasn't anything out of the ordinary requested.   Maybe I got lucky....

No way could I ever go with Provident....I have way too many things going on with my finances.  Hell, my tax return is over 60 pages.

haha i am curious to how much u write off... lol...
I have several rental properties, various streams of income, short/long term gains on options trading, a 2nd home (where my dad lives), my primary residence, and all my business related expenses.  I think the trading activity takes up 10-15 pages.  The underwriters that had my loan files were probably not happy campers, I was the complete opposite of a vanilla borrower.  There was a lot of email explanations, additional documents that I needed to provide, and several letters of explanation detailing various things.  I write off whatever I'm legally entitled to write off per IRs regulations.   :P

Anything that you DON'T do USC?

i tend to prefer the the holdings company path style... for ur rental properties, do u hold it under a REIT? if u dont feel comfy talking about taxes u dont have to respond... i ask cause im not a CPA so everything i do ive learned from rich ppl guiding me, so im always interested in learning new tactics/strategies... i actually learned a few tricks cause of romney (since theres all these pundits out there that wrote articles on how they would have done it via trust funds etc if they were romney)... haha perfectly legal of course... to me, only idiots dont take advantage of it... lol hey no argument there, no one says the tax rate is the maximum u can pay uncle sam, since everybody is always free to willingly pay more on their tax returns if they feel benevolent , right? hahahaha
I've considered using LLCs and/or S-corps but at the end of the day the cost didn't justify the benefits for me so I just report them on my Schedule E.  Because I'm considered a full-time real estate professional I'm not bound by the IRS active real estate tax losses income limitations.  I have general umbrella liability insurance that I got to cover me for the rentals.  I read a lot on the IRS website and if there are ways for me to reduce my tax liability then I do those things.

single member llc in CA gets passed to individual anyway??? I have a llc for just a couple of rentals... are you telling me that I'm not gaining anything by forming an llc for it?
The only thing that you gain is liability protection.  Single member LLCs do not file 1065s, they are flow through entities that get reported on either Schedule C (if you have a non real estate rental generating business) or Schedule E (for real estate generating businesses).  Your CPA didn't tell you that???

Oh I knew that single member LLCs are pass through it was meant to be a statement not a question.. I am just wondering if I should even have a llc at all for my income properties... I have a huge umbrella as well.. what do I gain for having the llc besides the pleasure of writing uncle sam a check for $800 a year?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on October 16, 2012, 05:59:34 PM
Good grief,

My present loan is with Provident but as you probably know, they're a really pain in the you know what to get to closing.  You must like
pain?  :P  But $3800 is nice.

I'm not sure if it's the same with all the deals but I was told that once you lock, unless it goes down quite a bit, you're stuck.  Well, locking works both ways.  Maybe if it goes down to the high 2s we'll all be refi'ing again.

To be honest, my experience with Provident was pretty easy.  BHL was a bit more work to deal with since they pass your file along to multiple "processors" during the refi process.  Each have a specific job to do, but some will miss something and then it will get caught later when it is crunch time.  I hate being asked for information I already provided and it happened a few times with BHL.  With Provident, you deal with just 2 people and it was much more smooth. 

My financials are very clean so there wasn't anything out of the ordinary requested.   Maybe I got lucky....

No way could I ever go with Provident....I have way too many things going on with my finances.  Hell, my tax return is over 60 pages.

haha i am curious to how much u write off... lol...
I have several rental properties, various streams of income, short/long term gains on options trading, a 2nd home (where my dad lives), my primary residence, and all my business related expenses.  I think the trading activity takes up 10-15 pages.  The underwriters that had my loan files were probably not happy campers, I was the complete opposite of a vanilla borrower.  There was a lot of email explanations, additional documents that I needed to provide, and several letters of explanation detailing various things.  I write off whatever I'm legally entitled to write off per IRs regulations.   :P

Anything that you DON'T do USC?

i tend to prefer the the holdings company path style... for ur rental properties, do u hold it under a REIT? if u dont feel comfy talking about taxes u dont have to respond... i ask cause im not a CPA so everything i do ive learned from rich ppl guiding me, so im always interested in learning new tactics/strategies... i actually learned a few tricks cause of romney (since theres all these pundits out there that wrote articles on how they would have done it via trust funds etc if they were romney)... haha perfectly legal of course... to me, only idiots dont take advantage of it... lol hey no argument there, no one says the tax rate is the maximum u can pay uncle sam, since everybody is always free to willingly pay more on their tax returns if they feel benevolent , right? hahahaha
I've considered using LLCs and/or S-corps but at the end of the day the cost didn't justify the benefits for me so I just report them on my Schedule E.  Because I'm considered a full-time real estate professional I'm not bound by the IRS active real estate tax losses income limitations.  I have general umbrella liability insurance that I got to cover me for the rentals.  I read a lot on the IRS website and if there are ways for me to reduce my tax liability then I do those things.

single member llc in CA gets passed to individual anyway??? I have a llc for just a couple of rentals... are you telling me that I'm not gaining anything by forming an llc for it?
The only thing that you gain is liability protection.  Single member LLCs do not file 1065s, they are flow through entities that get reported on either Schedule C (if you have a non real estate rental generating business) or Schedule E (for real estate generating businesses).  Your CPA didn't tell you that???

Oh I knew that single member LLCs are pass through it was meant to be a statement not a question.. I am just wondering if I should even have a llc at all for my income properties... I have a huge umbrella as well.. what do I gain for having the llc besides the pleasure of writing uncle sam a check for $800 a year?
Not much if you have an umbrella policy.  I would only use LLCs and/or S-Corps if there are 2 or more members along with an operating agreement and a bank account for the entity. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: SoCal on October 16, 2012, 07:30:07 PM
My eyes!  :'(
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on October 16, 2012, 07:47:49 PM

Oh I knew that single member LLCs are pass through it was meant to be a statement not a question.. I am just wondering if I should even have a llc at all for my income properties... I have a huge umbrella as well.. what do I gain for having the llc besides the pleasure of writing uncle sam a check for $800 a year?

in theory, if your properties are in an LLC, you dont need an umbrella policy for the purpose of covering yourself against liabilities against the LLC, that is the point of the LLC, since the LLC is liable (one of your renters slips and breaks their neck, it is only liable to the extent it has net assets, then you can just bankrupt it.  I would put each property in a separate LLC so an issue with one property doesnt bring down the other properties (especially if you have equity) - this is where World Chaos' holding company strategy can help. you can have the holding company wholly own each LLC. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Crispy3 on October 16, 2012, 10:00:00 PM

Oh I knew that single member LLCs are pass through it was meant to be a statement not a question.. I am just wondering if I should even have a llc at all for my income properties... I have a huge umbrella as well.. what do I gain for having the llc besides the pleasure of writing uncle sam a check for $800 a year?

in theory, if your properties are in an LLC, you dont need an umbrella policy for the purpose of covering yourself against liabilities against the LLC, that is the point of the LLC, since the LLC is liable (one of your renters slips and breaks their neck, it is only liable to the extent it has net assets, then you can just bankrupt it.  I would put each property in a separate LLC so an issue with one property doesnt bring down the other properties (especially if you have equity) - this is where World Chaos' holding company strategy can help. you can have the holding company wholly own each LLC.

Yep but I have been told that's a little extreme and it can get expensive real fast. My umbrella policy costs less than $500 a year. I never transferred the properties to my LLC yet since I still plan to refi soon. Just rening and operating under the LLC.  If there isn't much to be gained with having an LLC on top of the umbrella then I might just dissolve it this year...
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on October 16, 2012, 10:36:40 PM

Oh I knew that single member LLCs are pass through it was meant to be a statement not a question.. I am just wondering if I should even have a llc at all for my income properties... I have a huge umbrella as well.. what do I gain for having the llc besides the pleasure of writing uncle sam a check for $800 a year?

in theory, if your properties are in an LLC, you dont need an umbrella policy for the purpose of covering yourself against liabilities against the LLC, that is the point of the LLC, since the LLC is liable (one of your renters slips and breaks their neck, it is only liable to the extent it has net assets, then you can just bankrupt it.  I would put each property in a separate LLC so an issue with one property doesnt bring down the other properties (especially if you have equity) - this is where World Chaos' holding company strategy can help. you can have the holding company wholly own each LLC.

Yep but I have been told that's a little extreme and it can get expensive real fast. My umbrella policy costs less than $500 a year. I never transferred the properties to my LLC yet since I still plan to refi soon. Just rening and operating under the LLC.  If there isn't much to be gained with having an LLC on top of the umbrella then I might just dissolve it this year...

It's all relative right, it's extreme and expensive until you get hit with a multimillion dollar lawsuit. But remember, it's just like a different form of insurance. But I understand what you are saying. Rental income margins can be tight and all the administrative expenses can add up fast. In your case, if the title is not in an an LLC then I don't see much benefit, since you still hold title, you would still be liable, I pay several hundred for a million dollar umbrella policy, so I'm assuming yours is several million since your paying 500 for it - hope your never in a situation where u have to use it.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Crispy3 on October 17, 2012, 01:56:06 PM

Oh I knew that single member LLCs are pass through it was meant to be a statement not a question.. I am just wondering if I should even have a llc at all for my income properties... I have a huge umbrella as well.. what do I gain for having the llc besides the pleasure of writing uncle sam a check for $800 a year?

in theory, if your properties are in an LLC, you dont need an umbrella policy for the purpose of covering yourself against liabilities against the LLC, that is the point of the LLC, since the LLC is liable (one of your renters slips and breaks their neck, it is only liable to the extent it has net assets, then you can just bankrupt it.  I would put each property in a separate LLC so an issue with one property doesnt bring down the other properties (especially if you have equity) - this is where World Chaos' holding company strategy can help. you can have the holding company wholly own each LLC.

Yep but I have been told that's a little extreme and it can get expensive real fast. My umbrella policy costs less than $500 a year. I never transferred the properties to my LLC yet since I still plan to refi soon. Just rening and operating under the LLC.  If there isn't much to be gained with having an LLC on top of the umbrella then I might just dissolve it this year...

It's all relative right, it's extreme and expensive until you get hit with a multimillion dollar lawsuit. But remember, it's just like a different form of insurance. But I understand what you are saying. Rental income margins can be tight and all the administrative expenses can add up fast. In your case, if the title is not in an an LLC then I don't see much benefit, since you still hold title, you would still be liable, I pay several hundred for a million dollar umbrella policy, so I'm assuming yours is several million since your paying 500 for it - hope your never in a situation where u have to use it.

I kept telling myself that I need to change the titles to the LLC but I keep refinancing cause rates keep coming down.. I didn't want to keep moving it around so they were actually only under my name.. the rental contract was made with the LLC though.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on October 17, 2012, 02:27:13 PM
one thing to consider though about dropping your property's title into an LLC - i believe under most loan arrangement, if not all, the change in title allows the bank to call the loan and make you pay it all at once. from a practical perspective though, ive never heard of a bank calling the loan in that scenario.  as long the monthly payments are being made nothing would ever come to their attention.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: gld2 on October 17, 2012, 02:28:22 PM
a question of Umbrella insurance:

do i have to have several rentals to get the umbrella insurance?   which insurance company offers good umbrells insurance with a cheap rate?  Thanks
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on October 17, 2012, 02:33:49 PM
a question of Umbrella insurance:

do i have to have several rentals to get the umbrella insurance?   which insurance company offers good umbrells insurance with a cheap rate?  Thanks
Nope, you can get an umbrella liability policy without an rental properties (you may have to have auto coverage and the liability coverage on that have to be set to the max).  Just like with all insurance products, shop around (maybe your home and auto carrier might give you a better rate than other carriers).
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on October 17, 2012, 02:37:43 PM
an umbrella policy is just a rider for additional coverage above and beyond your existing coverage. Some insurance companies make you raise your existing limits before issuing you an umbrella policy.  So if you have car insurance with the typical 100/300 coverage they may make you increase it to 250/500 then they will issue you an umbrella for say $1M of additional coverage for $200-300.  Which of course reduces the insurance companies chance of ever using the umbrella for a payout.  I use Farmers.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: daedalus on October 31, 2012, 10:24:01 PM
Just adding a data point here.  I just locked in a refi.  30 year fixed jumbo conforming @ 3.75% with $5k *credit* to closing...covering all costs plus helping to fund the impound account.  Keeping my fingers crossed on the appraisal!
Furthering the data points...I *think* we finally closed our loan last week.  At the very least I know our old mortgage account is closed.  I ended up having a very negative experience.  In the end, aside from it taking way longer than it should have, I got most of what I thought I would, but Amerisave did not make it easy or pleasant.  Here is a list of some of my gripes:

Phone calls most often went unanswered.  Messages went without reply.  Same for emails. 

There were no commitments on dates (I asked repeatedly) or any sense of urgency on their part.

Initially I was told an in-process kitchen cabinet replacement would not need to be completed, but this ended up being a lie.  I expected it would be a requirement, but when they said "no problem", the project went to the back burner.  I had to take off from work to get it done since, at that point, I had less than 2 weeks.

Initial rate lock expiration was 9/10 (60 days); I found out on 9/26 (after week-to-week lock extensions) I did indeed have to get the kitchen completed.

This work required a follow-up for the appraisal, to the tune of $175 against the credit.

Right before closing they tried to reduce the closing credit on me, claiming I was the reason they kept having to extend the rate lock.  I sent a very stern and very fact-ridden letter to them.  I cited some of the emails and calls made.  I reminded them, among other things, that they still did not have all of their ducks in a row (in October!), and that this really should have been a complete slam dunk.  They backed off immediately, and things really moved fast at that point.  I wonder if my reply finally got past the schlep, er, I mean rep that I was wasting my time with.

Others have mentioned how silly the underwriters are with their requests for "explanations".  We had our fair share.  The most annoying thing was they kept asking for things we had already provided.  They asked us to explain a $900 deposit (REALLY??  I make THIS much a month, I'm borrowing THIS much for 30 years, I have THIS much in net assets, and you want me to explain a $900 "large sum deposit"?? ???).  They wanted us to explain addresses that showed up on our credit reports (You're saying you don't know how to read a credit report?  No problem, I guess I can google them for you and figure out which banks they belong to ).

I'm reminded of the Seinfeld "soup nazi", who exposed an interesting facet of human nature.  No one likes the soup nazi, but most people will put their principles aside to enjoy his yummy yummy offerings.  I hate the thought of ever doing business with Amerisave again, but in all honestly, if they dangle that yummy yummy carrot in my face (say, in 6 months?), I'll probably go after it.  If a friend asks for advice, though, I"ll tell them to avoid Amerisave like the plague.  Disingenuous?

Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: zubs on November 01, 2012, 11:42:03 AM
When I started looking for a home, I cleaned up my main bank account so salary deposits were the only big deposits in the transactions.  I did this for 2 months so I had atleast 2 months of a clean statement.  If you are looking for a house and need a mortgage, I would suggest cleaning out your main bank account and getting all the money into it first.  Then just use another bank account if you have a non normal transaction over $500.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on November 01, 2012, 11:57:21 AM
Man... you guys are ballers with your off-shore Cayman Islands bank accounts. :)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on November 01, 2012, 12:05:20 PM
The lender will only see the bank account that you give them.  Obviously you'll need to give them the account/s where your payroll deposits go.  I have a few bank accounts and only provided the statements for where the majority of my income goes into.  I refi'ed with PenFed for a 5/5 ARM with a 2.75% rate at 0pts and no refi costs (they pick up all of your costs if you use their escrow/title company).  It went pretty smooth just took a while because they were backed up with other refi's and purchases.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: fluffy on November 01, 2012, 12:19:04 PM
my originator told me not to include foreign bank accounts... if i do include it, itll raise red flags with the lender cause they will want to know if u are in debt in the caymans or what nots... so if u dont, then theyll just assume ur 100% domeestic and take the info you provide as it is... they also told me only to include business accounts if you own 100% of the business... if u own less then 100% then they will want more info on the business and who the other owners are and what nots, and even with that, they can only accept a certain amount within that business account to count towards ur assets... i dunno i forgot the specifics so im not 100% sure though since its been a month since the last time i talked with my originator about this

srsly getting alzheimer or something, cant remember anything well past yesterday =_=;;...
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Crispy3 on November 01, 2012, 09:39:42 PM
Just adding a data point here.  I just locked in a refi.  30 year fixed jumbo conforming @ 3.75% with $5k *credit* to closing...covering all costs plus helping to fund the impound account.  Keeping my fingers crossed on the appraisal!
Furthering the data points...I *think* we finally closed our loan last week.  At the very least I know our old mortgage account is closed.  I ended up having a very negative experience.  In the end, aside from it taking way longer than it should have, I got most of what I thought I would, but Amerisave did not make it easy or pleasant.  Here is a list of some of my gripes:

Phone calls most often went unanswered.  Messages went without reply.  Same for emails. 

There were no commitments on dates (I asked repeatedly) or any sense of urgency on their part.

Initially I was told an in-process kitchen cabinet replacement would not need to be completed, but this ended up being a lie.  I expected it would be a requirement, but when they said "no problem", the project went to the back burner.  I had to take off from work to get it done since, at that point, I had less than 2 weeks.

Initial rate lock expiration was 9/10 (60 days); I found out on 9/26 (after week-to-week lock extensions) I did indeed have to get the kitchen completed.

This work required a follow-up for the appraisal, to the tune of $175 against the credit.

Right before closing they tried to reduce the closing credit on me, claiming I was the reason they kept having to extend the rate lock.  I sent a very stern and very fact-ridden letter to them.  I cited some of the emails and calls made.  I reminded them, among other things, that they still did not have all of their ducks in a row (in October!), and that this really should have been a complete slam dunk.  They backed off immediately, and things really moved fast at that point.  I wonder if my reply finally got past the schlep, er, I mean rep that I was wasting my time with.

Others have mentioned how silly the underwriters are with their requests for "explanations".  We had our fair share.  The most annoying thing was they kept asking for things we had already provided.  They asked us to explain a $900 deposit (REALLY??  I make THIS much a month, I'm borrowing THIS much for 30 years, I have THIS much in net assets, and you want me to explain a $900 "large sum deposit"?? ???).  They wanted us to explain addresses that showed up on our credit reports (You're saying you don't know how to read a credit report?  No problem, I guess I can google them for you and figure out which banks they belong to ).

I'm reminded of the Seinfeld "soup nazi", who exposed an interesting facet of human nature.  No one likes the soup nazi, but most people will put their principles aside to enjoy his yummy yummy offerings.  I hate the thought of ever doing business with Amerisave again, but in all honestly, if they dangle that yummy yummy carrot in my face (say, in 6 months?), I'll probably go after it.  If a friend asks for advice, though, I"ll tell them to avoid Amerisave like the plague.  Disingenuous?

my god.. I am going through the same thing... endless LOX for deposits and asking for items that I have already provided. I am scheduled to close NEXT Monday and I still have not gotten a undewriter approval nor any date commitments. They just sent the appraiser out again on Tuesday (actually I called the appraiser up and made the appointment myself cause they are slower than pregnant banana slugs) just to take a picture of the carbon  monoxide detector the seller installed. I am pulling my hair out as the seller has a all cash backup offer and I cannot miss the deadline. I honestly think they are intentionally delaying things to charge me extra fees like a rush fee to close. My fico is 804 and has enough in the bank to buy the place in cash, I should be the ideal person to lend to. This is the worst lending experience I have ever gone through... I would not recommend Amerisave to anyone.  >:(
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on November 01, 2012, 09:43:06 PM
I would never recommend anyone go with Amerisave for a purchase, only for a refi when you can wait it out to get the bottom rate.  Even PenFed took over 2 months to close my refi.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on February 14, 2013, 09:00:53 PM
So looking to refi again...here's my current quote

5/1 Jumbo ARM 2.875% with no closing costs (app and appraisal fee refunded at closing), no impounds, 57 day lock, primary residence, FICO 760+

Interest I'll save around $100 per month versus my old mortgage.. plus I'll get to cash out my old impound account for more liquidity.  No cost plus lower rate should be a no brainer..

Lender is a zillow broker which will be serviced by wells fargo or chase.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: momopi on February 15, 2013, 03:40:55 PM
How long do you plan to keep the property?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on February 15, 2013, 03:49:33 PM
Forever...or until Orchard Hills comes out.. But I doubted..I need headroom in my house :). Haven't seen any new construction with the layout/vaulted ceiling that I like
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: dealcatcher on February 22, 2013, 11:42:53 AM
Anyone here use Amerisave for a new purchase? How long did they take to close?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: SoCal on February 22, 2013, 11:50:32 AM
Forever...or until Orchard Hills comes out.. But I doubted..I need headroom in my house :). Haven't seen any new construction with the layout/vaulted ceiling that I like

Amen!!! I consider myself fortunate that homes are not sold based on the cubic foot because that is the only thing I can happily live in.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: daedalus on February 22, 2013, 12:33:15 PM
Anyone here use Amerisave for a new purchase? How long did they take to close?
Do a search.  Not good for refis.  REALLY not good for purchases.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: dealcatcher on February 23, 2013, 07:18:48 AM
Anyone here use Amerisave for a new purchase? How long did they take to close?
Do a search.  Not good for refis.  REALLY not good for purchases.

I did a search and most people complained about refis. According to them they guarantee a close on time for new purchases. They said it takes 30 days as they prioritize new purchases over refis.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: momopi on March 04, 2013, 05:35:06 PM
Forever...or until Orchard Hills comes out.. But I doubted..I need headroom in my house :). Haven't seen any new construction with the layout/vaulted ceiling that I like

@_@?  If you intend to (or might) keep the property for the long haul, why get 5/1 jumbo ARM?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on March 05, 2013, 06:45:39 AM
Forever...or until Orchard Hills comes out.. But I doubted..I need headroom in my house :). Haven't seen any new construction with the layout/vaulted ceiling that I like

@_@?  If you intend to (or might) keep the property for the long haul, why get 5/1 jumbo ARM?


I like kicking cans
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on April 24, 2013, 07:28:58 AM
Just finished one no cost no impounds refi at 2.875% jumbo 5/1 now seeing it at 2.5%, lets go again...
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on April 24, 2013, 08:18:00 AM
It's possible to get 30 year fixed FHA money under 3.0% today (sub $417k only) on a zero point basis.  Yes, there's MI, but the underlying rate is crazy low.

Recovery? Where??? Mortgage rates ain't buying it.

Unfortunately in May FNMA/FHLMC fees are going up by about .25 point as Congress hiked the charges the Agencies levy to purchase loans, which gets pushed back to banks, who then off load it to borrowers. A .25 in fee boost can sometimes tip rates by .125%.
 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on April 24, 2013, 08:27:04 AM
Here's a tip, when seaching for no cost refi on zillow, after the list of lenders show up, click on the Filter drop down, and check the "no fees no points" box.  Otherwise zillow by default will not show the lenders who are giving enough credit to cover all costs.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: nosuchreality on April 24, 2013, 02:18:59 PM
Just finished one no cost no impounds refi at 2.875% jumbo 5/1 now seeing it at 2.5%, lets go again...

PS, I'm assuming you covered it, but you've got 2/2/5 or 2/2/6 style cap?  I'm seeing a lot of the low-ball loans as 5/2/5 caps.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on April 24, 2013, 02:36:50 PM
Just finished one no cost no impounds refi at 2.875% jumbo 5/1 now seeing it at 2.5%, lets go again...

PS, I'm assuming you covered it, but you've got 2/2/5 or 2/2/6 style cap?  I'm seeing a lot of the low-ball loans as 5/2/5 caps.
The 5 and 7 year arms have the 5/2/5 caps.  I think it's the 3 year arm that has the 2/2/6 cap.  Anyhow, you can get a 7 year arm with no closing costs around 2.50% and a 5 year arm with no closing costs around 2.25%.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on April 24, 2013, 02:50:03 PM
Just finished one no cost no impounds refi at 2.875% jumbo 5/1 now seeing it at 2.5%, lets go again...

PS, I'm assuming you covered it, but you've got 2/2/5 or 2/2/6 style cap?  I'm seeing a lot of the low-ball loans as 5/2/5 caps.
The 5 and 7 year arms have the 5/2/5 caps.  I think it's the 3 year arm that has the 2/2/6 cap.  Anyhow, you can get a 7 year arm with no closing costs around 2.50% and a 5 year arm with no closing costs around 2.25%.

Are those jumbo rates?  If so where at?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on April 24, 2013, 02:54:55 PM
Just finished one no cost no impounds refi at 2.875% jumbo 5/1 now seeing it at 2.5%, lets go again...

PS, I'm assuming you covered it, but you've got 2/2/5 or 2/2/6 style cap?  I'm seeing a lot of the low-ball loans as 5/2/5 caps.
The 5 and 7 year arms have the 5/2/5 caps.  I think it's the 3 year arm that has the 2/2/6 cap.  Anyhow, you can get a 7 year arm with no closing costs around 2.50% and a 5 year arm with no closing costs around 2.25%.

Are those jumbo rates?  If so where at?
Nope, those rates are for loans under $417k (looks like it's closer to 2.125% for a 5 year arm and 2.375% for a 7 year arm) on the amerisave website.   The 7 year arm I/O is at 2.75% with no cost....I might refi to this since I'm on a 5/5 arm from PenFed at 2.75%.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: octrends on April 25, 2013, 09:38:06 AM
On zillow, i do see so many small lenders showing very competitive rates. Did anybody use one of these lenders from Zillow, reviews looks good too. I am getting 3.375 for 500k+ loan from Kensas State Bank, never heard of this bank as well as many other lenders. Anybody tried any of these lenders...
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: nosuchreality on April 25, 2013, 10:19:43 AM
Just finished one no cost no impounds refi at 2.875% jumbo 5/1 now seeing it at 2.5%, lets go again...

PS, I'm assuming you covered it, but you've got 2/2/5 or 2/2/6 style cap?  I'm seeing a lot of the low-ball loans as 5/2/5 caps.
The 5 and 7 year arms have the 5/2/5 caps.  I think it's the 3 year arm that has the 2/2/6 cap.  Anyhow, you can get a 7 year arm with no closing costs around 2.50% and a 5 year arm with no closing costs around 2.25%.

At 5/2/5 cap, that's potentially a must refi-out or pay-off if rates move against you.  You're first adjustment could be to 7.25% rate.  A payment jump from just under $1600 for a $417K to $2700 on the remaining balance... 

You'll save $16K over 5 years compared to the 30 year, hope you've got the money handy or the Fed plays interest rate chicken a long time.

Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: woodburyowner on April 26, 2013, 03:15:37 PM
I think we are back to record lows for 30yr fixed rates.  3.375% no cost/fee for high balance conforming.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on April 26, 2013, 03:21:35 PM
On zillow, i do see so many small lenders showing very competitive rates. Did anybody use one of these lenders from Zillow, reviews looks good too. I am getting 3.375 for 500k+ loan from Kensas State Bank, never heard of this bank as well as many other lenders. Anybody tried any of these lenders...

My last three refi's were thru a zillow broker.  Worked out so far.  If doing a purchase loan go with a local broker (SGIP), in case of snafus.  Remember they are loaning you hundreds of thousands of their money, it's on you to dot the I's and cross the T's.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on April 26, 2013, 04:04:57 PM
Just finished one no cost no impounds refi at 2.875% jumbo 5/1 now seeing it at 2.5%, lets go again...

PS, I'm assuming you covered it, but you've got 2/2/5 or 2/2/6 style cap?  I'm seeing a lot of the low-ball loans as 5/2/5 caps.
The 5 and 7 year arms have the 5/2/5 caps.  I think it's the 3 year arm that has the 2/2/6 cap.  Anyhow, you can get a 7 year arm with no closing costs around 2.50% and a 5 year arm with no closing costs around 2.25%.

At 5/2/5 cap, that's potentially a must refi-out or pay-off if rates move against you.  You're first adjustment could be to 7.25% rate.  A payment jump from just under $1600 for a $417K to $2700 on the remaining balance... 

You'll save $16K over 5 years compared to the 30 year, hope you've got the money handy or the Fed plays interest rate chicken a long time.
I'm not too concerned, I'm socking enough away that I'll be able to pay the mortgage off if I want to (not that I will though).  The powers that be will do whatever they need to do to keep rates low for a while.  My thought is that we are going to go through what Japan is still going through....ultra low rates along with sub average growth.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Cubic Zirconia on April 26, 2013, 04:14:52 PM
USC, what's stopping you from locking at low rate for thirty years? Ps9, you too..
I didn't see a huge difference in monthly when we were refinancing our property if we went with 7 or 5. Am I missing something?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on April 26, 2013, 04:31:21 PM
USC, what's stopping you from locking at low rate for thirty years? Ps9, you too..
I didn't see a huge difference in monthly when we were refinancing our property if we went with 7 or 5. Am I missing something?
Why pay a higher rate when I don't believe that rates will go higher significantly in the intermediate future?  I may not even own the house in 5-7 years so why pay for the extra insurance of a 30-year fixed mortgage.  I'm less risk adverse than most people so I don't necessarily recommend everybody do what I'm doing though.  You can get a 5-year ARM at no cost with a rate of 2.125% and a 7-year ARM at no cost with a rate of 3.375% compared for a 30-year fixed loan.  I might even do a 7-year ARM I/O at 2.625% to really drop my payment.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on April 26, 2013, 04:36:43 PM
USC, what's stopping you from locking at low rate for thirty years? Ps9, you too..
I didn't see a huge difference in monthly when we were refinancing our property if we went with 7 or 5. Am I missing something?
There is a difference between 30-year fixed and a 7/1 or 5/1 ARM... save the money in the short term while it's cheap.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on April 26, 2013, 04:59:27 PM
I look at interest mostly, 30yr vs 5/1 ARM, big difference in how much of that monthly breaks down to interest and principal.  Things change quick, I don't see myself 30 years in one house.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: SoCal on May 09, 2013, 04:24:52 PM
USC, what's stopping you from locking at low rate for thirty years? Ps9, you too..
I didn't see a huge difference in monthly when we were refinancing our property if we went with 7 or 5. Am I missing something?

Refi Party at my house soon.  :) Woohoo!  I started another one with my favorite "Relationship Loan Officer", SGIP.  :)

(http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/new-year/party-blower-smiley-emoticon.gif)

I'm with you, CZ. Even fans of ARMs know they are not for everybody. The intended timeline in my place is much longer than 5-7 years. With historically low rates, I am comfortable sticking with a 30 FRM.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 09, 2013, 04:39:43 PM
I keep hearing ads on ESPN for Greenlight and CashCall... has anyone used them?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on May 09, 2013, 04:51:00 PM
Used Cashcall for my first no fee refi...  No different than any other zillow lender for refi's.  Don't expect them to hold your hand... If you do your homework should be ok. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 09, 2013, 04:52:52 PM
@ps9:

Which Zillow broker have been using for your can kicking? Has it been the same one?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 09, 2013, 04:54:38 PM
The intended timeline in my place is much longer than 5-7 years.
I thought you were Open House Hunting.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on May 09, 2013, 07:21:53 PM
@ps9:

Which Zillow broker have been using for your can kicking? Has it been the same one?

Whoever is the lowest...  Right now emortgage based out of Jersey..  5/1 Arm jumbo, no closing fees at 2.5%  no other broker is even close.... 

I haven't paid a mortgage since Feb since I'm refi'ing back to back....the broker credit is covering most of the interest at closing as well....kick kick kick
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: quattroporte on May 20, 2013, 06:28:04 PM
Do you see the mortgage rates to go down or head up like the past few weeks?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 20, 2013, 07:26:32 PM
I think they went up a bit.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on May 22, 2013, 09:39:17 PM
crap, appraiser had my most recent refi at 76% LTV so I won't get the max lender credit.. appeal failed as well.  sucky appraiser.. unprofessional phone calls... appraisal report listed my home in QUAIL HILL (hello?), used comps that were still under pending status.. ignored closed sales that were the same builder and same floorplan as my neighbors.....oh well.. at least i'm paying down my principal by bringing more cash to closing.. but still hate how a single incompetent person can make me lose cash liquidity.  Funny how my previous refi a month ago had a higher appraisal..
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: cowlemon on May 22, 2013, 10:18:40 PM
crap, appraiser had my most recent refi at 76% LTV so I won't get the max lender credit.. appeal failed as well.  sucky appraiser.. unprofessional phone calls... appraisal report listed my home in QUAIL HILL (hello?), used comps that were still under pending status.. ignored closed sales that were the same builder and same floorplan as my neighbors.....oh well.. at least i'm paying down my principal by bringing more cash to closing.. but still hate how a single incompetent person can make me lose cash liquidity.  Funny how my previous refi a month ago had a higher appraisal..

no bueno
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: SoCal on May 23, 2013, 01:00:41 PM
crap, appraiser had my most recent refi at 76% LTV so I won't get the max lender credit.. appeal failed as well.  sucky appraiser.. unprofessional phone calls... appraisal report listed my home in QUAIL HILL (hello?), used comps that were still under pending status.. ignored closed sales that were the same builder and same floorplan as my neighbors.....oh well.. at least i'm paying down my principal by bringing more cash to closing.. but still hate how a single incompetent person can make me lose cash liquidity.  Funny how my previous refi a month ago had a higher appraisal..

I'm kind of surprised to read that, as I was just reading a post on an O.C. real estate blog a minute ago called: "Appraisers Now Complicit in Efforts to Reflate the Housing Bubble." It's mainly about how appraisals are no longer derailing sales.

I guess I'll find out. I have an appraiser coming to my house in 10 minutes!
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on May 23, 2013, 01:37:05 PM
Bake them a cake!  I should've...
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: SoCal on May 23, 2013, 01:52:48 PM
Bake them a cake!  I should've...

Phew, she just left. Yup, I followed my BFF around with a glass of lemonade, cake with an icing message: "I <3 Appraisers", and offered to be a kidney donor if she needs it. The appraisal better be awesome or I'm cancelling our lunch date next Tuesday.  >:(

All joking aside, I got a really good vibe. We talked for half an hour and I learned all about her life story: How she immigrated from Romania, her husband was a professional wrestler who dated Nadia Comaneci. He defected from the country and became a refugee in Greece. She has 4 kids, lives in Anaheim Hills, I know what kind of car she drives, her favorite color, and her cat's name, etc., etc. I like meeting people.  :D It was cute, she called this market a "steroid bubble." I hadn't heard that one before.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Cubic Zirconia on May 23, 2013, 02:06:30 PM
Bake them a cake!  I should've...

Phew, she just left. Yup, I followed my BFF around with a glass of lemonade, cake with an icing message: "I <3 Appraisers", and offered to be a kidney donor if she needs it. The appraisal better be awesome or I'm cancelling our lunch date next Tuesday.  >:(

All joking aside, I got a really good vibe. We talked for half an hour and I learned all about her life story: How she immigrated from Romania, her husband was a professional wrestler who dated Nadia Comaneci. He defected from the country and became a refugee in Greece. She has 4 kids, lives in Anaheim Hills, I know what kind of car she drives, her favorite color, and her cat's name, etc., etc. I like meeting people.  :D It was cute, she called this market a "steroid bubble." I hadn't heard that one before.

LOL! I imagined you doing all those things with your appraiser -She will throw in an extra 100k ih the value ;-)
Steroid Bubble is a good word- describes the condition perfectly.

I sooo want to pick a fight with you.. so that we can make up with a "I am sorry" cake!!!
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 23, 2013, 02:20:00 PM
The appraisal we got a few months ago came in lower than an appraisal 6 months before that... both I and my broker were shocked because prices were on an uptick. We were still within the proper ratios but it was just irritating.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: SoCal on May 23, 2013, 02:27:49 PM
The appraisal we got a few months ago came in lower than an appraisal 6 months before that... both I and my broker were shocked because prices were on an uptick. We were still within the proper ratios but it was just irritating.

You were supposed to bake a cake, not bake it then eat it!!! Silly Iho. Try harder next time.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on June 06, 2013, 10:15:42 AM
Bond yields dropping again...dipping below the 2% mark earlier today.  We're back to about where we were in late May.  Investors running back to the UST after bad news in Europe and Asia.  I don't think we will ever see it drop to 1.7% in early May but 1.8-1.9 seems realistic. 

That jobs report on Friday should interesting.  I wonder if Clarence Beeks will have the inside information.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: daedalus on June 06, 2013, 12:28:50 PM
Jobs report, not crop report, Mortimer.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: cowlemon on June 08, 2013, 11:44:53 PM
http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2450237505001/where-are-the-jobs-today/ (http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2450237505001/where-are-the-jobs-today/)

In summary, he thinks tapering of QE will start at the beginning of '14.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on June 09, 2013, 09:08:06 AM
Lasner wrote an interesting article in the OCReg today about rising rates and home prices.

No link because of paywall but the gist was that in the past 40 years of data on single family homes, in the 15 years when rates rose, there was average 14% price gain from the previous year compared to the 24 years when rates declined, there was an average of only 8% price gain.

Of course there are other factors involved like unemployment and state of the economy but in the numbers he looked at, they don't necessarily reflect the common notion thrown around that rising rates usually results in lower prices.

And in places like Irvine, where cash buys are high, I think rates have an even smaller impact on pricing.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on June 10, 2013, 07:17:21 AM
Closing today on my Jumbo 5/1 refi, despite rates edging up recently, still can get 2.5% rate at 75%LTV from a zillow broker today with little to no fees
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on June 19, 2013, 02:17:59 PM
the bond yield just jumped to 2.36...thank Bernake  :'(
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: daedalus on June 19, 2013, 03:38:46 PM
It's all over now.  Time for your medicine, Mr. Nussbaum.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on June 19, 2013, 04:21:08 PM
We'll see in September when tapering begins or is stalled until 2015. The "Faux-covery" will need to generate more stories about how the real economy isn't roaring back enough to support higher rates.

Want a good read about the Fed and their understanding of the real world? Try this:

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2013/06/job-fair-shocks-fed-governor-raskin/ (http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2013/06/job-fair-shocks-fed-governor-raskin/)

which is part of the reason why I don't give the turn in rates much hope of going over 4.5%. Still a fantastic deal in a relative sense.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: freedomcm on June 20, 2013, 06:56:16 AM
conforming no point rate appears to be up 50-75bp in the past year.

same true for the super-conforming and jumbo market?

Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Goriot on June 20, 2013, 09:51:56 AM
10 year treasury breaking through important resistance at 2.39%.  Yields up to 2.41% as of 12:50 p.m. EST.  Hopefully, it will stay below 2.4% so it does not breakthrough the resistance and go upwards.  I think market is overreacting and should calm down tomorrow.  Just signed contract on a new home and locking in the rate at end of Oct.  If the trend continues, I will be very unhappy person. >:D
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: nosuchreality on June 20, 2013, 10:25:37 AM
Depends on how cynical you are.

Is the market being a petulant child whining about being told their candy will get cut off at Christmas or are they junkie who's being told their juice is getting cut at Christmas.

I think the market knows they're a junkie.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on June 20, 2013, 11:45:01 AM
10 year treasury breaking through important resistance at 2.39%.  Yields up to 2.41% as of 12:50 p.m. EST.  Hopefully, it will stay below 2.4% so it does not breakthrough the resistance and go upwards.  I think market is overreacting and should calm down tomorrow.  Just signed contract on a new home and locking in the rate at end of Oct.  If the trend continues, I will be very unhappy person. >:D

I am about 45 days away from closing...kicking myself for not locking in at 60 days and 4.2 but there was a .4 % spread between the 30 and 60 days.  Thinking about locking at 45 days.

I have never cared about bonds yields so much in my life.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on June 21, 2013, 10:58:34 AM
I think this thread has finally answered the title question: "How low can we go...". Roughly 3.0% Conforming 30 with some costs, 3.375% Jumbo conforming with costs.

10 year T is at 2.50 and that's probably where it will float for a while. Watch Mortgage Backed Securities at www.mortgagenewsdaily.com. That's a better picture of where rates are going.

Expect to see most of the refi jockey's (Greenlight/Cash Call) suddenly remake themselves as purchase loan specialists and try to conquer that market or rotate into ARM products to stay afloat. For those waiting for their home to be built, the question is "Should I try an ARM?" A sub 4% 7/1 ARM is still a pretty strong alternative to 30 fixes that are going to stay in the 4's for a while.

I was told that a national wholesale lender my company competes with (one in which with thousands of brokers are sending them business) this Tuesday booked a grand total of 7 new loans. The usual number is in the mid 300's. Plenty of people in the business are going to get bounced out pretty soon. As one person put it, if your lending shop exist only as a result of the support to the market given by the Federal Reserve, it's past the time to rethink that model.

My .02c
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on June 21, 2013, 11:32:29 AM
I think this thread has finally answered the title question: "How low can we go...". Roughly 3.0% Conforming 30 with some costs, 3.375% Jumbo conforming with costs.

10 year T is at 2.50 and that's probably where it will float for a while. Watch Mortgage Backed Securities at www.mortgagenewsdaily.com. That's a better picture of where rates are going.

Expect to see most of the refi jockey's (Greenlight/Cash Call) suddenly remake themselves as purchase loan specialists and try to conquer that market or rotate into ARM products to stay afloat. For those waiting for their home to be built, the question is "Should I try an ARM?" A sub 4% 7/1 ARM is still a pretty strong alternative to 30 fixes that are going to stay in the 4's for a while.

I was told that a national wholesale lender my company competes with (one in which with thousands of brokers are sending them business) this Tuesday booked a grand total of 7 new loans. The usual number is in the mid 300's. Plenty of people in the business are going to get bounced out pretty soon. As one person put it, if your lending shop exist only as a result of the support to the market given by the Federal Reserve, it's past the time to rethink that model.

My .02c

Do you have a sense whether I should lock at 45 vs 30?  I am really sick of watching the yield go up...I thought it would settle after yesterday but now we're up another .09.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on June 21, 2013, 11:37:34 AM
We're approaching a peak oversold position in the mortgage market. If you have the guts to wait it out, that's what I'd do. If you're wanting a solid nights sleep, lock it and forget it.

At this point, we're talking about .25% in rate more, up or down. If it's up, a refinance is in your eventual future. If it's down, are you going to be comfortable waiting for it to happen? Can you personally absorb a worse case scenario of .25% higher?

Not knowing the full extent of your circumstances, this is the best I can suggest at this time.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on June 21, 2013, 11:40:43 AM
We're approaching a peak oversold position in the mortgage market. If you have the guts to wait it out, that's what I'd do. If you're wanting a solid nights sleep, lock it and forget it.

At this point, we're talking about .25% in rate more, up or down. If it's up, a refinance is in your eventual future. If it's down, are you going to be comfortable waiting for it to happen? Can you personally absorb a worse case scenario of .25% higher?

Not knowing the full extent of your circumstances, this is the best I can suggest at this time.

Thanks :)  We can make the payments even at the current rates but to watch it jump one percent over the last week has been more than shocking...I though about locking it in a week ago at 4.2 but thought that the 0.4 spread between the 30 and 60 day was too big to cross...boy was I wrong.  Oh well, I think I may leaning with sticking it out.

The other problem is that my 30 day lock falls just after job reports come out...if the report is good I can see the bond market falling some more. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: nosuchreality on June 21, 2013, 01:27:27 PM
I think this thread has finally answered the title question: "How low can we go...". Roughly 3.0% Conforming 30 with some costs, 3.375% Jumbo conforming with costs.

I think you're an 1/8th too low.

But that's kibble.  Today, probably a mere 45 days later and it's 4.25% conforming with costs and 4.625% non-conforming with costs.

That's a little more than 10% shock to payment power in less than two months.   Still not much, but it is $300/month on a $400K loan and about $400 on a $600K loan pushing PITI on a $600K to nearly $50K/yr.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on June 21, 2013, 01:41:55 PM
Yes, those sellers thinking they can still require -0- contingencies and $20k over asking will begin to see that buyer ebbing away quickly with higher rates at hand. Plenty of resale buyers didn't lock as they could have and they're in for some sticker shock. Even more refinance customers are finding out that they weren't locked either. I feel for the new home buyer who can't lock until you're 60 days from closing. I still believe this spike in rates will come back into the 3.875% or lower range later this year.

For about 2 weeks in May you could get a sub 2.875% FHA 30 Fixed Conforming for -0- points, sometimes with a small lender credit for closing fees. If you paid points you could get a 30 fixed at 2.50% and it might still have made sense for some to buy that low of a rate. Today? 3.5 to 3.75% FHA for now with 4.25 to 4.75% Conforming.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on June 24, 2013, 08:26:45 AM
Yields at 2.61 this morning with a high of 2.66  :'(  Rates are up to 4.5%
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Goriot on June 24, 2013, 08:38:12 AM
Yields at 2.61 this morning with a high of 2.66  :'(  Rates are up to 4.5%

It is increasing way too fast, which is brining shock to the market.  The rise needs to be slow and gradual.
China is little concerning as well.  There stock market crashed close to 6% yesterday because of significant bank liquidity issues and no announcement of Chinese gov't intervention.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on June 24, 2013, 08:42:08 AM
Yields at 2.61 this morning with a high of 2.66  :'(  Rates are up to 4.5%

It is increasing way too fast, which is brining shock to the market.  The rise needs to be slow and gradual.
China is little concerning as well.  There stock market crashed close to 6% yesterday because of significant bank liquidity issues and no announcement of Chinese gov't intervention.

That's my concern...the more seems to be more about panic/dumping rather than a slow reasonable retreat.  I wonder if Bernake will float some calming comments before the next job report.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on June 24, 2013, 08:48:02 AM
Huh, still see 5/1 ARM Jumbo at 2.5% with $2000 credit at 75% LTV from a zillow broker.. Not enough to cover all closing costs... but pretty close..

Provident has similar loan at 3.25% with $3000 credit..
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Goriot on June 24, 2013, 09:05:59 AM
Huh, still see 5/1 ARM Jumbo at 2.5% with $2000 credit at 75% LTV from a zillow broker.. Not enough to cover all closing costs... but pretty close..

Provident has similar loan at 3.25% with $3000 credit..

Mortgage rates lag the treasury a little.  You will see those rates rise.  Also, the spread between the mortgage rates and the treasuries was wider then normal because of strong demand for loan originations.  The spread right now is contracting really fast, which means, further rate increase will pass on to the consumers.  Also, long-term maturity securities (30-year fixed) are a lot more sensitive to rate movements.  Long-term bonds are getting hammered.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: nosuchreality on June 24, 2013, 09:25:13 AM
Mortgage rates lag the treasury a little.  You will see those rates rise.  Also, the spread between the mortgage rates and the treasuries was wider then normal because of strong demand for loan origination.  The spread right now is contracting really fast, which means, further rate increase will pass on to the consumers.  Also, long-term maturity securities (30-year fixed) are a lot more sensitive to rate movements.  Long-term bonds are getting hammered.

I'm seeing 30 year non-conforming at 4.99%.  It's pushing the 5% mark which will definitely be a psychological shock for higher end buyers.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on June 24, 2013, 09:40:21 AM
Ads on TV are already saying 'Refinance now or be rated out forever". :)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: quattroporte on June 24, 2013, 09:51:30 AM
This sucks. This is insane! So high so fast.

I just feel bad for the buyers of new construction who close in 5-6 months. They probably got quoted monthly payments based on ~3.5%. Imagine the payment shock they will get at ~5%!
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on June 24, 2013, 09:55:00 AM
This sucks. This is insane! So high so fast.

I just feel bad for the buyers of new construction who close in 5-6 months. They probably got quoted monthly payments based on ~3.5%. Imagine the payment shock they will get at ~5%!

Or people closing in 30-45 day.  Actually, I think it will be okay for those people closing far out...the summer will allow time for the fed thing to shake out and maybe stabilize the rate.  My hope at this point is that the rates will go back down and I can refi in 6 months. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on June 24, 2013, 10:35:02 AM
Hopefully...statements like these will the start the "recovery" for bonds. 

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100838070

FWIW...the bond yield has flattened out at 2.6...I expect some buying tomorrow and a drop in the yield to about 2.3-2.4 levels by the end of the week (I hope).  Anyone knows when the Fed actually implements QE on a monthly basis? 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: quattroporte on June 24, 2013, 11:08:25 AM
This sucks. This is insane! So high so fast.

I just feel bad for the buyers of new construction who close in 5-6 months. They probably got quoted monthly payments based on ~3.5%. Imagine the payment shock they will get at ~5%!

Or people closing in 30-45 day.  Actually, I think it will be okay for those people closing far out...the summer will allow time for the fed thing to shake out and maybe stabilize the rate.  My hope at this point is that the rates will go back down and I can refi in 6 months.

When do you close? Were you able to lock something?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on June 24, 2013, 11:11:18 AM
This sucks. This is insane! So high so fast.

I just feel bad for the buyers of new construction who close in 5-6 months. They probably got quoted monthly payments based on ~3.5%. Imagine the payment shock they will get at ~5%!

Or people closing in 30-45 day.  Actually, I think it will be okay for those people closing far out...the summer will allow time for the fed thing to shake out and maybe stabilize the rate.  My hope at this point is that the rates will go back down and I can refi in 6 months.

When do you close? Were you able to lock something?

I close in August...I could have locked at 60 days at 4.2 but now...not so much.  I am stuck between 30 and 45 days...trying to figure out whether I should lock it now and at the 0.2% or wait it out.  So far, not a great gamble.  It does look like the bond market is flatting out and actually going back to what we opened at.  At this point...somewhere around 4.3-4.5 looks like a bargain.

Looks like the Fed is trying to "walk back" Bernake's comments.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/dudley-says-fed-isnt-accommodative-enough-2013-06-24-1010311
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: quattroporte on June 24, 2013, 11:15:06 AM
This sucks. This is insane! So high so fast.

I just feel bad for the buyers of new construction who close in 5-6 months. They probably got quoted monthly payments based on ~3.5%. Imagine the payment shock they will get at ~5%!

Or people closing in 30-45 day.  Actually, I think it will be okay for those people closing far out...the summer will allow time for the fed thing to shake out and maybe stabilize the rate.  My hope at this point is that the rates will go back down and I can refi in 6 months.

When do you close? Were you able to lock something?

I close in August...I could have locked at 60 days at 4.2 but now...not so much.  I am stuck between 30 and 45 days...trying to figure out whether I should lock it now and at the 0.2% or wait it out.  So far, not a great gamble.  It does look like the bond market is flatting out and actually going back to what we opened at.  At this point...somewhere around 4.3-4.5 looks like a bargain.

Sorry to hear that. Hopefully things get better.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on June 24, 2013, 11:18:40 AM
This sucks. This is insane! So high so fast.

I just feel bad for the buyers of new construction who close in 5-6 months. They probably got quoted monthly payments based on ~3.5%. Imagine the payment shock they will get at ~5%!

Or people closing in 30-45 day.  Actually, I think it will be okay for those people closing far out...the summer will allow time for the fed thing to shake out and maybe stabilize the rate.  My hope at this point is that the rates will go back down and I can refi in 6 months.

When do you close? Were you able to lock something?

I close in August...I could have locked at 60 days at 4.2 but now...not so much.  I am stuck between 30 and 45 days...trying to figure out whether I should lock it now and at the 0.2% or wait it out.  So far, not a great gamble.  It does look like the bond market is flatting out and actually going back to what we opened at.  At this point...somewhere around 4.3-4.5 looks like a bargain.

Sorry to hear that. Hopefully things get better.

It's cool.  I don't like handing banks more money per month but the rates are still super low.  30% of me still think that the interest rates will settle somewhere between 4 and 4.3...both the bond and stock markets are rallying...let's see if it keeps up.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: LiefinIrvine on June 26, 2013, 07:34:26 AM
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/u-first-quarter-growth-cut-123222216.html


The 10-Year bond is already down to 2.52, will this news bring the mortgage rates down to less than 4%?



Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on June 26, 2013, 07:47:40 AM
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/u-first-quarter-growth-cut-123222216.html


The 10-Year bond is already down to 2.52, will this news bring the mortgage rates down to less than 4%?

I think you need to get back to 2.2.-2.3 to get it to below four.  Weird movement...big rise yesterday but a huge drop overnight.  Looks like the overseas investors have more faith in the treasury bond than the US investor.   It's pretty much stuck between 2.2 and 2.3 today...the downward adjustment of the GDP certainly made an impact. 

It will probably stay around 2.5 until the jobs report in early July.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on June 26, 2013, 12:45:26 PM
Remember thought that the 10 year is simply an indicator of the direction in rates. Mortgage loan terms are dependent upon the trading price of Mortgage Backed Securities (MBS) which sometimes move in opposition to the 10 YT. You can see the 10y improve by 20-30 basis points in a day, but no one wants a 3.5% FNMA MBS based on the current coupon price.

My .02 bpts.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on June 26, 2013, 12:47:50 PM
Remember thought that the 10 year is simply an indicator of the direction in rates. Mortgage loan terms are dependent upon the trading price of Mortgage Backed Securities (MBS) which sometimes move in opposition to the 10 YT. You can see the 10y improve by 20-30 basis points in a day, but no one wants a 3.5% FNMA MBS based on the current coupon price.

My .02 bpts.

So I should be looking at this instead?

http://themortgagereports.com/13110/mortgage-rates-today-real-time-mbs-pricing-june-26-2013

Not sure what I am reading...Up is good right?  How does it correlate?

Actually...this looks like the better site

http://www.mortgagenewsdaily.com/mortgage_rates/
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on June 26, 2013, 12:59:21 PM
The first link says it's "real time" but the last shot was as of 11:38 EST (8:38 PST) and I'm writing this at almost 1:00 PST.

The second link is a bit dated as well and doesn't give that clear of a picture of the direction of rates. It's better though than the first link.

The main page of Mortgage News Daily has a "market snapshot" section on the RH side. They post 10yr T data and MBS prices that are about 20 minutes behind the market. For people who just want a quick look at things, that's the place I'd recommend looking.

Here's another page within MND to use to see trends:

http://www.mortgagenewsdaily.com/mortgage_rates/daily.aspx (http://www.mortgagenewsdaily.com/mortgage_rates/daily.aspx)

Sometimes people will say "the markets IMPROVING because bond prices are rising!!!", and it had from 6/24 to 6/25. It's hard to consider rates to have improved much when the average has gone from 4.59 down to 4.57. It's important to view things also in context. These rates are structured under "best case scenarios". If a borrowers FICO is 665, they're putting 10% down, and buying a Condo, the rate will be 5.25% because of the Agency Loan Level Price Adjustments.

My .02 euros.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on June 26, 2013, 01:13:41 PM
The first link says it's "real time" but the last shot was as of 11:38 EST (8:38 PST) and I'm writing this at almost 1:00 PST.

The second link is a bit dated as well and doesn't give that clear of a picture of the direction of rates. It's better though than the first link.

The main page of Mortgage News Daily has a "market snapshot" section on the RH side. They post 10yr T data and MBS prices that are about 20 minutes behind the market. For people who just want a quick look at things, that's the place I'd recommend looking.

Here's another page within MND to use to see trends:

http://www.mortgagenewsdaily.com/mortgage_rates/daily.aspx (http://www.mortgagenewsdaily.com/mortgage_rates/daily.aspx)

Sometimes people will say "the markets IMPROVING because bond prices are rising!!!", and it had from 6/24 to 6/25. It's hard to consider rates to have improved much when the average has gone from 4.59 down to 4.57. It's important to view things also in context. These rates are structured under "best case scenarios". If a borrowers FICO is 665, they're putting 10% down, and buying a Condo, the rate will be 5.25% because of the Agency Loan Level Price Adjustments.

My .02 euros.

Thanks a bunch!  I am still shocked from the 0.5% jumped in the past week...just amazing.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on June 28, 2013, 07:16:11 AM
Finally go some relief the last few days and the 30 year fixed rate loan settled at 4.5%...of course the 10-year treasury jumped to 2.56 for absolutely no reason.  Chicago PMI was much lower than expected but UMich consumer sentiment was better than expected...thus mixed news.  A Fed comes out and says that QE may be increased.

Yet...still a 11 basis point jump in 4 hours.  Just ridiculous.  I cannot wait to lock in in a few day before the jobs report...I don't want to be a bonds trader anymore.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on June 28, 2013, 01:29:35 PM
Peaks and valleys. It's the trend from this point forward you want to watch. The daily stuff is going to drive you to despair so don't do it. We're not going to see sub 3.75% 30 fixed for some time so work within what the world has given and let's hope together for better days.

Be thankful your loan wasn't at some of the big refinance houses (Greenlight, CC, etc). Most of the larger refi-only places didn't lock their 3.25% 30 fixed deals that were supposed to close in July. That's going to cause some real problems....

Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: SoCal on June 28, 2013, 01:36:51 PM

Be thankful your loan wasn't at some of the big refinance houses (Greenlight, CC, etc). Most of the larger refi-only places didn't lock their 3.25% 30 fixed deals that were supposed to close in July. That's going to cause some real problems....

Uh-oh. What will the repercussions be?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on June 28, 2013, 07:58:13 PM
Real problems in OC..... Beyond the pissed clients - from my sources there are a' plenty who thought their rates were locked but weren't.  - every loan file is touched at some point by about 20+ people.

10 at least at the lender: Loan officer, Processor, Underwriter, Doc Department, Funder, Appraisal review, Management, Post Closing Review, Investor relations, Shipping. 7 + Service providers: Appraiser, Title Officer, Title staff, Escrow officer, Escrow staff, Messengers, Mobile Notaries, Everyone else: Receptionists, part time copy staff, landlords, etc.

When a Greenlight (now pushing Reverse Mortgages) or a Cash Call (now selling 125% LTV second loans) and their counterparts like AIM and a myriad of brokers wholly focused on refinances hit an air pocket like this, layoffs are inevitable. This happen once before in 2007 when the music stopped and someone didn't have a chair to sit in.

Expect local employment issues to crop up within what is in essence a service industry. Every good tree needs pruning every so often. Now is that time.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on June 28, 2013, 08:51:59 PM
Real problems in OC..... Beyond the pissed clients - from my sources there are a' plenty who thought their rates were locked but weren't.  - every loan file is touched at some point by about 20+ people.

10 at least at the lender: Loan officer, Processor, Underwriter, Doc Department, Funder, Appraisal review, Management, Post Closing Review, Investor relations, Shipping. 7 + Service providers: Appraiser, Title Officer, Title staff, Escrow officer, Escrow staff, Messengers, Mobile Notaries, Everyone else: Receptionists, part time copy staff, landlords, etc.

When a Greenlight (now pushing Reverse Mortgages) or a Cash Call (now selling 125% LTV second loans) and their counterparts like AIM and a myriad of brokers wholly focused on refinances hit an air pocket like this, layoffs are inevitable. This happen once before in 2007 when the music stopped and someone didn't have a chair to sit in.

Expect local employment issues to crop up within what is in essence a service industry. Every good tree needs pruning every so often. Now is that time.
If rates continue to move up towards 4.5%-5% I can see where refi volume will dry as fast as water on hot pavement.  I think Wells also staffed up to meet the increased mortgage level.  Always good to have market cycles to clear out the dead wood out of the system.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ducky on June 29, 2013, 12:23:57 PM
Greenlight was recently sold to Nationstar.  Nationstar is trying to buy every loan or servicing right they can.

Can't imagine layoffs at Greenlight at this point.  Cash call would be a different story.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on July 01, 2013, 10:06:25 AM
More up and down today in the bond yields but right now about even with the close on Friday (2.48)...Looks like the lackluster data is calming the market down a little.

But that job report on Friday is omnious...trying to decide whether I should lock before or after the reports come out.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: nosuchreality on July 02, 2013, 08:05:53 AM
Welcome to the mortgage roller coaster.  Looks like we're back to 4.125% and possibly closing in on 4.0% for a conforming.  That's still a lot higher than it was two months ago, but a heck of a lot better, psychologically, than the 4.5% or more we were eyeballing last week.

Jumbos are back to 4.5% instead of 5.0% too.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on July 02, 2013, 08:11:32 AM
Welcome to the mortgage roller coaster.  Looks like we're back to 4.125% and possibly closing in on 4.0% for a conforming.  That's still a lot higher than it was two months ago, but a heck of a lot better, psychologically, than the 4.5% or more we were eyeballing last week.

Jumbos are back to 4.5% instead of 5.0% too.

That would be awesome!  Looks like there was some margin built in and the lenders have let go off those margins.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on July 02, 2013, 10:14:55 AM
The yield is bouncing around 2.48 today after an overnight low of 2.45.  Looks like we're going to stay here until Friday.

It is interesting to me how the overnight/foreign market seems to be big buyers of T-notes while there is a selloff when Americans are at the helm.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on July 03, 2013, 08:04:03 AM
Well...after a hopefully overnight session that saw yields dropping to 2.42...yields have returned to about 2.47.  Mortgage rates dropped a bit over last week and it looks like 4.375 is going to where we are going to be today.

ADP numbers came out better than expected...caused the yield to go up.  Dry run for Friday's jobs number.   

I am 99% certainly I am going to lock today.  A few days out of 30 days but the broker says that he can get an extension to cover the difference.  I am already thankful for the drop in the past week...not need to get greedy.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: quattroporte on July 03, 2013, 09:13:23 AM
Well...after a hopefully overnight session that saw yields dropping to 2.42...yields have returned to about 2.47.  Mortgage rates dropped a bit over last week and it looks like 4.375 is going to where we are going to be today.

ADP numbers came out better than expected...caused the yield to go up.  Dry run for Friday's jobs number.   

I am 99% certainly I am going to lock today.  A few days out of 30 days but the broker says that he can get an extension to cover the difference.  I am already thankful for the drop in the past week...not need to get greedy.

Even if you lock your rate today, you might be able to get one float down if the rate goes down. You might want to check.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on July 03, 2013, 09:27:26 AM
One thing I will gar-on-tee: The moment you lock, someone will say they can offer a better deal.

At this point, fix it and forget it. How many gray hairs have been created since you began watching this day by day, hour by hour? Once you lock, be at peace. That's how home buying should be.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: LiefinIrvine on July 03, 2013, 10:32:52 AM
Well...after a hopefully overnight session that saw yields dropping to 2.42...yields have returned to about 2.47.  Mortgage rates dropped a bit over last week and it looks like 4.375 is going to where we are going to be today.

ADP numbers came out better than expected...caused the yield to go up.  Dry run for Friday's jobs number.   


I am also in the same situtaion, hasn't locked the rate yet.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/07/02/news/economy/june-jobs-report-preview/
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: nosuchreality on July 03, 2013, 11:26:20 AM
Even if you lock your rate today, you might be able to get one float down if the rate goes down. You might want to check.

LOL, no your rate will NOT float down.  The only way your rate is going down is if you walk, or threaten to walk enough that they really bite and get another loan at a lower rate.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on July 03, 2013, 02:38:15 PM
Well...after a hopefully overnight session that saw yields dropping to 2.42...yields have returned to about 2.47.  Mortgage rates dropped a bit over last week and it looks like 4.375 is going to where we are going to be today.

ADP numbers came out better than expected...caused the yield to go up.  Dry run for Friday's jobs number.   


I am also in the same situtaion, hasn't locked the rate yet.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/07/02/news/economy/june-jobs-report-preview/

I think the jobs report is going to be better than expected.  The ADP beat expectation (188,000 v. 160,000).   It had 135,000 in May and the jobs report showed 175,000...I think the report may hit above 200K.  Bond yield went up to 2.51, a 0.03 increase from the day before but a 0.06% jump in rates. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on July 03, 2013, 04:04:02 PM
Locked in at 4.625...the last two days costs me .125% and Bernake costs me nearly a full point.  :'(

Could have locked in at 4.2 but no....I thought there would be no way there would be a 0.4% jump. 

Anyways...it's in the bag.  Maybe the economy will tank again I can refinance in 6 months.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: quattroporte on July 03, 2013, 04:09:15 PM
Even if you lock your rate today, you might be able to get one float down if the rate goes down. You might want to check.

LOL, no your rate will NOT float down.  The only way your rate is going down is if you walk, or threaten to walk enough that they really bite and get another loan at a lower rate.

Where did you get your information from? I have talked to both Wells Fargo as well as with Stearns Lending and both of them told me that I can have one float down if the interest rate goes down. I dont know about Wells, but Stearns told me there is no fee associated with this. Also, Stearns mentioned that you can do an 60 day lock with a 30 day extention for free. Besides, not all lenders are the same. It doesnt hurt to ask. It only takes a phone call.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on July 03, 2013, 04:10:02 PM
Even if you lock your rate today, you might be able to get one float down if the rate goes down. You might want to check.

LOL, no your rate will NOT float down.  The only way your rate is going down is if you walk, or threaten to walk enough that they really bite and get another loan at a lower rate.

Where did you get your information from? I have talked to both Wells Fargo as well as with Stearns Lending and both of them told me that I can have one float down if the interest rate goes down. I dont know about Wells, but Stearns told me there is no fee associated with this. Also, Stearns mentioned that you can do an 60 day lock with a 30 day extention for free. Besides, not all lenders are the same. It doesnt hurt to ask. It only takes a phone call.

The float down is definitely not free...depending the type of financing...it's not even available.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: quattroporte on July 03, 2013, 04:11:45 PM
Locked in at 4.625...the last two days costs me .125% and Bernake costs me nearly a full point.  :'(

Could have locked in at 4.2 but no....I thought there would be no way there would be a 0.4% jump. 

Anyways...it's in the bag.  Maybe the economy will tank again I can refinance in 6 months.

Well at least now you can sleep better at night.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: quattroporte on July 03, 2013, 04:12:25 PM
Even if you lock your rate today, you might be able to get one float down if the rate goes down. You might want to check.

LOL, no your rate will NOT float down.  The only way your rate is going down is if you walk, or threaten to walk enough that they really bite and get another loan at a lower rate.

Where did you get your information from? I have talked to both Wells Fargo as well as with Stearns Lending and both of them told me that I can have one float down if the interest rate goes down. I dont know about Wells, but Stearns told me there is no fee associated with this. Also, Stearns mentioned that you can do an 60 day lock with a 30 day extention for free. Besides, not all lenders are the same. It doesnt hurt to ask. It only takes a phone call.

The float down is definitely not free...depending the type of financing...it's not even available.

Who is your lender? Also, I am just saying what was told to me. I assumed what the lender tells me is accurate. But, I could be wrong.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on July 03, 2013, 04:15:36 PM
Even if you lock your rate today, you might be able to get one float down if the rate goes down. You might want to check.

LOL, no your rate will NOT float down.  The only way your rate is going down is if you walk, or threaten to walk enough that they really bite and get another loan at a lower rate.

Where did you get your information from? I have talked to both Wells Fargo as well as with Stearns Lending and both of them told me that I can have one float down if the interest rate goes down. I dont know about Wells, but Stearns told me there is no fee associated with this. Also, Stearns mentioned that you can do an 60 day lock with a 30 day extention for free. Besides, not all lenders are the same. It doesnt hurt to ask. It only takes a phone call.

The float down is definitely not free...depending the type of financing...it's not even available.

Who is your lender?

Rather not say...but I have asked around. Float downs are not available for new purchases for me and it's a tough market right now.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: quattroporte on July 03, 2013, 04:16:43 PM
Even if you lock your rate today, you might be able to get one float down if the rate goes down. You might want to check.

LOL, no your rate will NOT float down.  The only way your rate is going down is if you walk, or threaten to walk enough that they really bite and get another loan at a lower rate.

Where did you get your information from? I have talked to both Wells Fargo as well as with Stearns Lending and both of them told me that I can have one float down if the interest rate goes down. I dont know about Wells, but Stearns told me there is no fee associated with this. Also, Stearns mentioned that you can do an 60 day lock with a 30 day extention for free. Besides, not all lenders are the same. It doesnt hurt to ask. It only takes a phone call.

The float down is definitely not free...depending the type of financing...it's not even available.

Who is your lender?

Rather not say...but I have asked around. Float downs are not available for new purchases for me and it's a tough market right now.

I understand. But congratulations!
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on July 03, 2013, 04:20:57 PM
I do have a question for those in the lending business..why is there such a divergent range of rates online?  I look at bankrate and some are offering 4.3 (Amerisave) v. others are at 4.75% for same lock period and no points. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on July 03, 2013, 08:10:45 PM
Some lenders offer a .25 fee benefit (not rate) if you impound. Most internet lenders will require impounds based on their best available rate quotes. Some companies won't lock at application. The lock term (30 days) might be the same, but one will lock now, the other will lock after the application is approved or the appraisal is in which allows for some rate quotes to be less equal in terms than others.

Since the spike, many lenders have seen volume crash by 2/3rds. What used to be a business model based on ringing phones and fat margin loan even at a low rate to the consumer, is now meaningless because phones now aren't ringing. Some companies will push their rates lower by reducing margins just to get some business to come through the door. Other companies don't have those kinds of margins to press into lower rates because they have such a high overhead (brick and mortar stores, 10,000 staff memebers) so they can't cut rates as quickly like the low cost providers do.

When you get a torque in rates like this, some are capable of reactive pricing. Others don't. In about 3 weeks you'll see everyones prices back to about the same spread as before. You'll also hear about some of those 10,000 back office staff getting the hook as well.

My .02c
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on July 03, 2013, 08:17:19 PM
Re: float downs.

Want to know if you're getting a float down? First, ask for their lock policy in writing. Can't get that? Wonder why? I don't. It's uncommon for lenders to give float downs or have said same policy in writing.

If you get a float down agreement, does it say you'll get market rates? No. It will likely say you'll get 1/2 way between the rate you locked and the rate that's at market.

Ask your L.O. "If I lock at 4.0% and see your bank offering 3.75% in a week, will you give me the 3.75% without cost?" Then ask "Great, can I sign that rate lock agreement that says this?".

iMortgage has a form of a rate lock with a float down, but it requires an up front fee, a lock over market rates, and when you float down it's over market rates. Is that a deal?

If you have a float down rate lock agreement, can you send me a copy? It would be one of the few I've seen "in the wild" before, other than iMortgage's program and an old one that Wells Fargo had in the 1990's.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on July 04, 2013, 09:53:16 AM
Some lenders offer a .25 fee benefit (not rate) if you impound. Most internet lenders will require impounds based on their best available rate quotes. Some companies won't lock at application. The lock term (30 days) might be the same, but one will lock now, the other will lock after the application is approved or the appraisal is in which allows for some rate quotes to be less equal in terms than others.

Since the spike, many lenders have seen volume crash by 2/3rds. What used to be a business model based on ringing phones and fat margin loan even at a low rate to the consumer, is now meaningless because phones now aren't ringing. Some companies will push their rates lower by reducing margins just to get some business to come through the door. Other companies don't have those kinds of margins to press into lower rates because they have such a high overhead (brick and mortar stores, 10,000 staff memebers) so they can't cut rates as quickly like the low cost providers do.

When you get a torque in rates like this, some are capable of reactive pricing. Others don't. In about 3 weeks you'll see everyones prices back to about the same spread as before. You'll also hear about some of those 10,000 back office staff getting the hook as well.

My .02c

But doesn't it boil down to what the investor is willing to pay for?  I mean it seems silly for anyone to go to a high margin banker/lender.  I mean why would I go to the dealership with a higher selling price?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on July 05, 2013, 07:39:33 AM
Wow...job numbers came close to 200K and in line with the ADP numbers of 188K. 

Bond yields shot up to 2.71 and are down a little to 2.68.   I don't see how rates don't go up to 5% now with jumbos at 5.25% or higher. 

I wonder how many times the bond market are going to get "shocked" before good economic numbers are no longer a big deal. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on July 05, 2013, 08:54:46 AM
Thru Zillow refi

30 yr Jumbo 75%LTV at 4.25% (need around $1500 to close)

5/1 ARM 75% LTV at 2.5% (need around $1000 to close)

both require FICO 760+, single family home, primary residence, not sure if they require impounds.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: quattroporte on July 05, 2013, 10:10:57 AM
10 Year Treasury Note at 2.72. Up 0.21 (8.25%) for the day.  :-\


Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: quattroporte on July 05, 2013, 10:11:59 AM
Wow...job numbers came close to 200K and in line with the ADP numbers of 188K. 

Bond yields shot up to 2.71 and are down a little to 2.68.   I don't see how rates don't go up to 5% now with jumbos at 5.25% or higher. 

I wonder how many times the bond market are going to get "shocked" before good economic numbers are no longer a big deal.

Good you locked! Even if you had a float down option, I think you wont have needed it. Lol.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: furioussugar on July 05, 2013, 11:47:29 AM
Perhaps it's time to change the name of this thread to "How high can we go?"  LOL
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: nosuchreality on July 05, 2013, 01:13:49 PM
Thru Zillow refi

30 yr Jumbo 75%LTV at 4.25% (need around $1500 to close)

5/1 ARM 75% LTV at 2.5% (need around $1000 to close)

both require FICO 760+, single family home, primary residence, not sure if they require impounds.

Not sure where you're looking but the lowest I see is 4.5% with a 4.6% Apr. Most are 4.625 or 4.75%

I don't even see 4.25% on a conforming.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on July 05, 2013, 07:26:00 PM
It was there this morning.... Not a VA as well...   
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Westsiiide! on July 05, 2013, 08:11:41 PM
any predictions on rates next week / next month?

if one could lock this weekend at today (friday's) rates, sound like a good move?   8)

Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on July 08, 2013, 09:15:31 AM
Some reprieve from last Friday's unprecedented move...yield is down about 0.07 at 2.67.  You would expect a little pull back today. 

Question is what is what the yield do in the next few weeks...there are some projections that yield will hit 4% by 2016 while others say that it will be slow uptick for the rest the of year.  Minutes of the Fed meeting is going to come out and Bernake is supposed to speak publicly today.

Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on July 08, 2013, 03:54:12 PM
Very interesting day...yield fell about 0.11 to 2.64, getting back about half of the losses on Friday.  Of course, it is still about 0.13 above the opening on Friday.  Interesting to see what happens over the next week.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: lnc on July 18, 2013, 12:40:47 PM
Mortgage rates cool off:
http://freddiemac.mwnewsroom.com/press-releases/mortgage-rates-cool-off-otcqb-fmcc-1035474

"30-year fixed-rate mortgage (FRM) averaged 4.37 percent with an average 0.7 point for the week ending July 18, 2013, down from last week when it averaged 4.51 percent. Last year at this time, the 30-year FRM averaged 3.53 percent"

Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on July 24, 2013, 08:25:41 AM
Wacky day today...Yield jump 0.09 to 2.60 for no real reason.  There were some good economic news from Europe but nothing really earthshattering.  That's a 0.125 to 0.25 difference in rates from a couple days ago  :-\
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: LAtoOC on July 31, 2013, 10:17:16 AM
Decent article on Bond Yields -

http://online.barrons.com/article/SB50001424052748704329604578637791455942204.html

Key line -
"It is widely believed that tapering of asset purchases will occur this coming September, but Bernanke reiterated the analogy that the Fed will merely be letting up on the accelerator rather than braking. The current consensus is for a reduction from $85 billion per month to $60 billion – $65 billion in September.

To provide some perspective, the experts at PIMCO's mortgage-backed securities (MBS) desk have pointed out that the expected $10 billion reduction in Agency MBS purchases – the other $10 billion – $15 billion will be from Treasuries – will be less than the reduction in MBS origination occurring as a result of the recent plunge in mortgage refinancing activity tied to the increase in mortgage rates. The net effect is that we expect the Fed will be purchasing, on a percentage basis, more Agency MBS than it did when the program began. "

Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Homer_Simpson on August 15, 2013, 09:08:33 AM
What are the rates today??
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: LiefinIrvine on August 15, 2013, 10:13:27 AM
What are the rates today??

10 Yr Bond at 2.78 and 30 Year Fixed at 4.42.

Not bad , considering the good news on the jobs front.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on August 15, 2013, 10:16:57 AM
What are the rates today??

10 Yr Bond at 2.78 and 30 Year Fixed at 4.42.

Not bad , considering the good news on the jobs front.

Serious jumps the last couple of days though.  Interestingly enough, Jumbo and conforming loans have the same rates.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on August 15, 2013, 12:30:54 PM
What are the rates today??

10 Yr Bond at 2.78 and 30 Year Fixed at 4.42.

Not bad , considering the good news on the jobs front.

Serious jumps the last couple of days though.  Interestingly enough, Jumbo and conforming loans have the same rates.
Probably means that the mortgage spreads to treasuries have compressed.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on August 16, 2013, 09:18:02 AM
The 4.42 number is from the Freddie Mac Weekly Survey.

http://www.freddiemac.com/pmms/ (http://www.freddiemac.com/pmms/)

Which is data from a week prior. It's also assuming .70 in lender fees.

The 2.78 10 year is present day.

I'd expect the weekly average next week to be around 4.50%, rising to 4.6 by September 1 - still with .70 in fee which means real rates with zero points are about .125% higher.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: quattroporte on August 16, 2013, 11:16:06 AM
10 Year Ts just touched 2.87
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on August 19, 2013, 10:26:39 AM
Looks like the march to 3 for the treasury is on...just hit 2.9.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on August 19, 2013, 11:48:14 AM
Fee free closing and locked for 60 days, 4.125% is about right.  To think, 60 days ago one could have gotten something in the low 3's. How things have turned.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on September 05, 2013, 02:29:47 PM
the yield on the 10 year treasure has reached the 3.00 mark....best performing is probably somewhere around 4.8 today...which mean the average borrowers are going to get a 5+% interest.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on September 06, 2013, 11:34:33 AM
5.0% Jumbo Conforming was hit yesterday, but with today payroll report, 4.75% or lower with costs is coming back. See/Saw until September Taper news is confirmed.

My .02c
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: test on September 18, 2013, 12:43:11 PM
the yield on the 10 year treasure has reached the 3.00 mark....best performing is probably somewhere around 4.8 today...which mean the average borrowers are going to get a 5+% interest.

Back down to 2.7% today.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on September 18, 2013, 01:19:44 PM
the yield on the 10 year treasure has reached the 3.00 mark....best performing is probably somewhere around 4.8 today...which mean the average borrowers are going to get a 5+% interest.

Back down to 2.7% today.

No tapering!  Gold jumped 56 points.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on September 18, 2013, 07:51:56 PM
10 year likely to hit 2.50, then hover until more economic news comes out. Anyone who closed a loan from August to September 18th should be looking at a fee free refinance pretty soon.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: test on September 24, 2013, 10:26:30 AM
Treasury Yields Plunge To 7-Week Lows

(http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2013/09/20130924_10y2_0.jpg)

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-09-24/treasury-yields-plunge-7-week-lows

Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: test on September 25, 2013, 03:44:34 PM
Down to 2.6%
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: test on October 22, 2013, 09:16:44 AM
Down to 2.5%
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on October 22, 2013, 10:48:39 AM
30-year rates should be around 4% now.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Logik on October 22, 2013, 09:29:10 PM
Where will rates be at end of 1st quarter next year, higher or lower than today?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on October 22, 2013, 09:53:31 PM
5/1 ARM Jumbo 2.625% 60%LTV but WITH $5,262 in lender credit.  Enough for free refi and maybe a nice weeks vacation or cruise left over.  Worth it to run my house thru the wash again?  Monthlies would be the same.  Not sure if impounds required.

(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/Ps99472/zillow_zps330dc447.jpg) (http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/Ps99472/media/zillow_zps330dc447.jpg.html)

Would it seem fishy to the bank to refi from 2.5% to 2.625%? 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: adventurous on October 22, 2013, 10:09:32 PM
Where will rates be at end of 1st quarter next year, higher or lower than today?
Noone can say for sure. I can guess, but I wouldn't bet my money on it.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on October 23, 2013, 08:05:09 AM
Those 2.875% "True Jumbo" 5/1 ARM rates are legitimate and you can get them from brick and mortar banks as well. Here's the difficulty:

1) Does a 760 credit score get me that rate? Perhaps not.

2) Is less than 24 months of cash reserves gonna get me that rate? Perhaps not.

3) Attached properties work at 2.875%? No, not at this time.

4) Want to pay your taxes and insurance on your own? Sorry, not at that 2.875% rate. How's 3.125%?

It takes a lot of weaving in and out while jumping up and down, like a running back heading down field against a strong defense for a borrower to get a rate like what's posted on line. These unbelievable terms exist, but not everyone has the superstar credentials to get them.

PS - Don't expect many of these refi-heavy lenders to stick around much longer. Case in point: CashCall filed a WARN notice with the State regarding 700+ workers to get the boot in December.  Expect some of the others (GreenLight, Provident, etc) to do the same pretty soon.

My .02c
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: test on November 08, 2013, 10:51:06 AM
Down to 2.5%

Up to 2.75% today.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on November 08, 2013, 03:01:39 PM
And Lo, the 5th Seal was opened. The pale horseman read aloud "200+ Non Farm Payroll Jobs Created!" and thus there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth. Mortgage Loan Officers tore their garments, dressing in sackcloth and ashes saying "why, why o Lord didn't we lock everyone in yesterday....!"

This too shall pass. If anyone thinks the Fed is going to perform any meaningful tapering, I've got a nice bridge in New York City that I'd like to sell them.

My .02c
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: nosuchreality on November 08, 2013, 03:07:11 PM
The juice will be on until after the 2014 election.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on November 26, 2013, 06:35:23 AM
Zillow update:  primary residence, FICO 760+, LTV 60%, SFR, Jumbo, impounds?

5/1 ARM 2.625% w/$7000 credit

30 yr 4.375% w/$7000 credit

7/1 ARM 3.125% w/ $8000 credit

5/1 ARM trending down?  30yr is moving sideways
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Homer_Simpson on November 26, 2013, 09:17:30 AM
Zillow update:  primary residence, FICO 760+, LTV 60%, SFR, Jumbo, impounds?

5/1 ARM 2.625% w/$7000 credit

30 yr 4.375% w/$7000 credit

7/1 ARM 3.125% w/ $8000 credit

5/1 ARM trending down?  30yr is moving sideways

How soon can one refi after purchasing a home??
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on November 26, 2013, 09:22:42 AM
I refi'd 4 months after close of escrow
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on November 26, 2013, 09:28:54 AM
After that, refi'd again a month later, feeling the itch again
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Chairman on November 26, 2013, 09:32:46 AM
Zillow update:  primary residence, FICO 760+, LTV 60%, SFR, Jumbo, impounds?

5/1 ARM 2.625% w/$7000 credit

30 yr 4.375% w/$7000 credit

7/1 ARM 3.125% w/ $8000 credit

5/1 ARM trending down?  30yr is moving sideways

4.375% seems kind of high...
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on November 26, 2013, 10:44:51 AM
Zillow update:  primary residence, FICO 760+, LTV 60%, SFR, Jumbo, impounds?

5/1 ARM 2.625% w/$7000 credit

30 yr 4.375% w/$7000 credit

7/1 ARM 3.125% w/ $8000 credit

5/1 ARM trending down?  30yr is moving sideways
Easy call...5/1 ARM all the way.  The 1-year LIBOR which will determine your annual floating rate is slowly bleeding lower.  If your ARM reset today, your rate would be 2.875% today.  The 1-year LIBOR is indirectly based upon the Fed Funds Rate not what the 10-year is doing or if the Fed will taper and the Fed won't be increasing interest rates for a long while.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on November 26, 2013, 01:26:20 PM
For those quotes, you have to be willing to impound, or the cost difference is significant.

Once the application is in, you'll also find that many Jumbo quotes are for "true jumbos" - any loan over $625,500 - not simply "loans over $417,000". It's an important distinction to ask about.

The lenders may also require an auto pay from the bank offering those terms. For example, you can walk into a Wells Fargo and get those rates as listed on-line through Zillow directly from the bank. It might take 90 days to close, but you'll get the deal. You can go on-line to lender ABCDEFG, and get that rate, but you have to auto pay with a Wells Fargo account. 

ARM loans are so competitive today and with 2/2/5 caps, they make great sense. A 3.0% 7/1 ARM no cost jumbo refi (estimating for example purposes...) is a far better deal than a 4.375% 30 fixed.  7 years at 3.0 with a possible 8th year at 5, 9th year at 7.0% etc, you break even in a bit over 10 years. This assumes you're going to see significantly higher rates.

If we start seeing mortgage rates over 7% for ARM loans, I don't care if you have a 3.50% 30 fixed, the economy will be in such peril that anyone and everyone could find themselves caught in a home price deflationary swirl, leading to a repeat of 2006-2008. The question then is, does rate in years 10-30 make a difference? For some people it does, and that's OK. For other's there are great options out there.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: nosuchreality on November 26, 2013, 01:35:02 PM
The only difference is that my 30 year is already funded and when I need to get out of the ARM, I may not be able to fund.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on November 26, 2013, 02:00:22 PM
i have a 30 year fixed at 3.75, i redid the amort over the first five years of the loan using the 5/1 ARM rate 2.65% (making sizable lump sum payments at the end of every year for the first five years under both scenarios). after the first five years, i will have paid an extra 19K in interest (net of tax benefits) under the fixed 30 year vs the 5/1 ARM. Saving 19K over the first five years wasnt worth the peace of mind of having the flexibility of the 30 year. Im planning on paying off the loan in the first 10 years, so at most i would save 40K over 10 years (interest will be lower in years 6-10). but id rather have the flexibility of the 30 year fixed in the event that a life changing event happened and derailed my 10 year plan.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: bones on November 26, 2013, 02:39:46 PM
[/
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on November 26, 2013, 02:44:40 PM
i have a 30 year fixed at 3.75, i redid the amort over the first five years of the loan using the 5/1 ARM rate 2.65% (making sizable lump sum payments at the end of every year for the first five years under both scenarios). after the first five years, i will have paid an extra 19K in interest (net of tax benefits) under the fixed 30 year vs the 5/1 ARM. Saving 19K over the first five years wasnt worth the peace of mind of having the flexibility of the 30 year. Im planning on paying off the loan in the first 10 years, so at most i would save 40K over 10 years (interest will be lower in years 6-10). but id rather have the flexibility of the 30 year fixed in the event that a life changing event happened and derailed my 10 year plan.


5 years better than chairman mao and josef stalin?


I think the important distinction you have above is that you always knew that you wanted to pull up and move prior to that 30 year period ending.  Not everyone has that desire - for example, i took out a loan on my first home in 2001, and took out a 30 year fixed.  I just refinanced it for a 15 year fixed at 4.125, since i know the tenant will pay it off.


I don't have the time to round up every loose end that the loan processors, underwriters and bank ask for.  So i would rather have the peace of mind of the fixed rate, and re-fi as it becomes prudent.



yeah the plan is to move to SD at some point and i dont like having debt. just something about having debt outstanding that drives me nuts.  i dont always do the best thing from a pure financial perspective, if i did i wouldnt have gotten married and had a kid. so the plan is to have the house paid at 46 the we dont have to be slaves to anyone from then on.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on November 26, 2013, 02:46:18 PM
super anal

that is all i got out of this statement :-)

i can see why bones thinks im a perv now.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on November 26, 2013, 04:00:51 PM
me nuts.
Yeah... that's all I got out of your statement. :)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on November 26, 2013, 05:04:00 PM
ARM loans are definitely not for everybody.  You need to be financially savvy and take that saved capital and invest it active to obtain a higher return.  You also have to periodically evaluate the credit markets and where you think the index that drives the adjustment (1-year LIBOR rate) is going to be going in the intermediate term.  You also have to consider how long you expect to be in a home (on average people sell their homes in 6-7 years so a 7-year ARM is perfect for that situation).  I'm a bit less risk adverse than most people so I'm willing to tolerate the interest rate risk as long as I'm getting compensated for it.  Having a 30-year fixed loan is nothing more than paying for additional insurance and for some people it's worth for the extra piece of mind.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on November 26, 2013, 05:25:44 PM
ARM loans are definitely not for everybody.  You need to be financially savvy and take that saved capital and invest it active to obtain a higher return.  You also have to periodically evaluate the credit markets and where you think the index that drives the adjustment (1-year LIBOR rate) is going to be going in the intermediate term.  You also have to consider how long you expect to be in a home (on average people sell their homes in 6-7 years so a 7-year ARM is perfect for that situation).  I'm a bit less risk adverse than most people so I'm willing to tolerate the interest rate risk as long as I'm getting compensated for it.  Having a 30-year fixed loan is nothing more than paying for additional insurance and for some people it's worth for the extra piece of mind.

You could pay more per month.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on November 26, 2013, 07:29:35 PM
ARM loans are definitely not for everybody.  You need to be financially savvy and take that saved capital and invest it active to obtain a higher return.  You also have to periodically evaluate the credit markets and where you think the index that drives the adjustment (1-year LIBOR rate) is going to be going in the intermediate term.  You also have to consider how long you expect to be in a home (on average people sell their homes in 6-7 years so a 7-year ARM is perfect for that situation).  I'm a bit less risk adverse than most people so I'm willing to tolerate the interest rate risk as long as I'm getting compensated for it.  Having a 30-year fixed loan is nothing more than paying for additional insurance and for some people it's worth for the extra piece of mind.

You could pay more per month.
I'm willing to take that risk for the benefit that I'm getting today (lower monthly payment and more of my payment goes towards the principal).  Time value of money is important for me as inflation is higher than it's reported to be.  Besides, I can easily get a 4-5% annual return on the savings from the lower payments so if for the slight chance that rates do skyrocket I'll just pay down or pay off the loan.  I never got an ARM loan without having a Plan B if rates spike.  ;)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on November 26, 2013, 09:28:47 PM
I'm willing to take that risk for the benefit that I'm getting today (lower monthly payment and more of my payment goes towards the principal).
That's one of big things I like about an ARM that I didn't know about until I looked at an amortization table... paying down the principal faster.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on November 26, 2013, 10:26:59 PM
I'm willing to take that risk for the benefit that I'm getting today (lower monthly payment and more of my payment goes towards the principal).
That's one of big things I like about an ARM that I didn't know about until I looked at an amortization table... paying down the principal faster.
that is not ARM specific, that is just a function of the lower interest rate.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Chairman on January 10, 2014, 09:33:10 AM
Love that drop in rates for the 10yr!

Per Amerisave:

01/08/14

  4.000%  $2,626  4.313%  $19,556  View  View 
  4.125%  $2,666  4.342%  $13,374  View  View 
  4.250%  $2,706  4.383%  $7,891  View  View 
  4.375%  $2,746  4.459%  $4,756  View  View 
  4.500%  $2,787  4.528%  $-2,300  View  View 
  4.625%  $2,828  4.653%  $-7,894  View  View 

01/09/14

  4.000%  $2,626  4.321%  $20,068  View  View 
  4.125%  $2,666  4.350%  $13,892  View  View 
  4.250%  $2,706  4.391%  $8,402  View  View 
  4.375%  $2,746  4.446%  $3,914  View  View 
  4.500%  $2,787  4.528%  $-1,855  View  View 
  4.625%  $2,828  4.653%  $-7,454  View  View 

01/10/14

  4.125%  $2,666  4.280%  $9,464  View  View 
  4.250%  $2,706  4.321%  $3,975  View  View 
  4.375%  $2,746  4.402%  $840  View  View 
  4.500%  $2,787  4.527%  $-5,221  View  View 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on January 10, 2014, 09:47:19 AM
On Zillow:

30 yr Jumbo 60% LTV at 4.5% with almost $7000 in credit from AnnieMac

5/1 Jumbo 60% LTV at 2.5% with $2800 in credit (almost no fee refi) from AIMloans

7/1 Jumbo 60% LTV at 3.0% with $5000 in credit from AIMloans

If that 5/1 rate is really true from AIM, it is close to the bottom from my last refi in April '13
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Homer_Simpson on January 10, 2014, 09:58:06 AM
On Zillow:

30 yr Jumbo 60% LTV at 4.5% with almost $7000 in credit from AnnieMac

5/1 Jumbo 60% LTV at 2.5% with $2800 in credit (almost no fee refi) from AIMloans

7/1 Jumbo 60% LTV at 3.0% with $5000 in credit from AIMloans

If that 5/1 rate is really true from AIM, it is close to the bottom from my last refi in April '13

PS9- You got me on a Refi trip! 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on January 10, 2014, 09:59:39 AM
Gonna buy a 4K TV with the leftover lender credit!
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on January 10, 2014, 10:22:05 AM
Nevermind, just got off the phone with them, they show on THEIR side 2.5% with $10,000 in closing costs.. what a bunch of BS.  Not even in the ball park.  Crossing AIM off the list. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on January 10, 2014, 10:26:06 AM
@ps9: Just let us know which is the best deal and we'll follow you into refi chain addiction.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on January 10, 2014, 10:27:12 AM
So the next best is at 2.875% with $5000 in credit with AnnieMac
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on January 10, 2014, 10:28:17 AM
@ps9: Just let us know which is the best deal and we'll follow you into refi chain addiction.

Hey maybe we can close on the same date and have a notary party and save costs!
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Homer_Simpson on January 10, 2014, 11:00:18 AM
So the next best is at 2.875% with $5000 in credit with AnnieMac

Jumbo?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on January 10, 2014, 12:01:39 PM
So the next best is at 2.875% with $5000 in credit with AnnieMac
I'd love to join the refi party but I'm on a 5/5 ARM with PenFed at 2.625%. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Homer_Simpson on January 10, 2014, 12:58:23 PM
So the next best is at 2.875% with $5000 in credit with AnnieMac
I'd love to join the refi party but I'm on a 5/5 ARM with PenFed at 2.625%.

Me rike youl lates!
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on January 10, 2014, 01:21:07 PM
So the next best is at 2.875% with $5000 in credit with AnnieMac

Jumbo?

Yes.  My current is at 2.5, so I'll wait unless I can get 2.625% with a huge credit.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on January 10, 2014, 01:26:39 PM
Just checked zillow again, AIMloan still advertising 2.5% with $1000 credit, I want whatever they're smoking over there in San Diego.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: zubs on January 13, 2014, 01:09:22 PM
Today, mish had a nice post about why the FED cannot raise interest rates.  While the FED may say low interest rates is there to help grow the economy and add more jobs, the actual reason is that the interest payments the government makes to service it's own debt would explode and become unmanageable if interest rates were to go back to it's historical norm of 5.7%.

So expect low interest rates forever or until we crash and go into a depression.

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2014/01/when-will-interest-on-us-national-debt.html
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on January 13, 2014, 01:53:08 PM
Today, mish had a nice post about why the FED cannot raise interest rates.  While the FED may say low interest rates is there to help grow the economy and add more jobs, the actual reason is that the interest payments the government makes to service it's own debt would explode and become unmanageable if interest rates were to go back to it's historical norm of 5.7%.

So expect low interest rates forever or until we crash and go into a depression.

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2014/01/when-will-interest-on-us-national-debt.html

Pretty sure...US doesn't have an adjustable rate mortgage.  Aren't the debts basically treasury bills?  So the rate of returns on thus t-bills are already fixed.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on January 13, 2014, 02:00:10 PM
Today, mish had a nice post about why the FED cannot raise interest rates.  While the FED may say low interest rates is there to help grow the economy and add more jobs, the actual reason is that the interest payments the government makes to service it's own debt would explode and become unmanageable if interest rates were to go back to it's historical norm of 5.7%.

So expect low interest rates forever or until we crash and go into a depression.

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2014/01/when-will-interest-on-us-national-debt.html

Pretty sure...US doesn't have an adjustable rate mortgage.  Aren't the debts basically treasury bills?  So the rate of returns on thus t-bills are already fixed.

once the debt comes due then new debt is issued, that debt would be at higher rates which the US can not afford (without issuing new debt at even higher rates).
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on January 13, 2014, 02:04:36 PM
Today, mish had a nice post about why the FED cannot raise interest rates.  While the FED may say low interest rates is there to help grow the economy and add more jobs, the actual reason is that the interest payments the government makes to service it's own debt would explode and become unmanageable if interest rates were to go back to it's historical norm of 5.7%.

So expect low interest rates forever or until we crash and go into a depression.

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2014/01/when-will-interest-on-us-national-debt.html

Pretty sure...US doesn't have an adjustable rate mortgage.  Aren't the debts basically treasury bills?  So the rate of returns on thus t-bills are already fixed.

once the debt comes due then new debt is issued, that debt would be at higher rates which the US can not afford (without issuing new debt at even higher rates).

We're talking about mostly 10 or 30 year bonds.  US sold bonds are much much higher rates in in 1980s and 1990s.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on January 14, 2014, 08:01:16 AM
5/1 ARM Jumbo (~50-60% LTV, 760+ FICO) inching lower:

Two lenders at 2.75% with enough credit (~$3000) for free refi (Guaranteed rate and Smarter mortgages)

One lender at 2.625% but need to bring ~$1500 to table to cover all fees (good mortgage)

I used Smarter Mortgages in the past (aka Fearon Financials), they were pretty good, easy refi.

Ready to pull trigger as soon as rates get to 2.5% no fees or 2.625% with enough credit leftover for a 4K TV.  Got some good comps for appraiser this time.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on January 14, 2014, 08:07:43 AM
You should contact SGIP... I believe he works for one of those lenders.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on January 14, 2014, 08:21:11 AM
Didn't know that, SGIP on Zillow?  That soothes my fears for a purchase loan if I ever buy again. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on January 14, 2014, 01:35:15 PM
Thanks for the shout out.

Back in the day I had been on Zillow Mortgage Market, but it was a complete "hive of scum and villainy"... so I stopped being a member. My profile is there, but I've not updated it for some time.

Lenders would quote 2% rates in a 6% market. Then ZMM began trolling for $$$ to prop up their business model. I'd get the call once a week "hey, this is so and so from ZMM. I think we can raise your profile and lead generation if you pay X for ad space..."

This was well before Z went public. They've put some restrictions in place and tightened up guidelines a bit, but there still are so many paid reviews and misquotes that you've really got to be ready to research the lenders reputation outside of what you see on ZMM.

Every barrel of apples has a few bad ones. The inverse of that there are plenty of good ones in there also. The trick is finding which one is which before taking a bite.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: 0$ on February 01, 2014, 04:14:59 AM
 :)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: lnc on February 01, 2014, 07:35:34 AM
Who woke up 4am on Saturday morning to post on TI?  ;)

BTW, that's an awesome rate.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on February 01, 2014, 08:30:38 AM
BTW, Wells needed 80% LTV, plus a full year's payments (including tax + HOA) in reserve to do the deal. Is that reserve requirement new?
The reserves requirement is new. I think that before it was 3-6 months and recently required 6 months as a minimum (depending on your bank).

12 months is new to me, but I guess Wells wants to be sure.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: 0$ on February 01, 2014, 10:13:11 AM
 :P
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Chairman on February 01, 2014, 10:21:14 AM
What were the rates and credits/points that Wells was offering?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Chairman on February 01, 2014, 10:25:36 AM
BTW, congrats OpenSky on locking! I know it can be quite a stressful process.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: 0$ on February 01, 2014, 10:31:55 AM
 :P
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Chairman on February 01, 2014, 11:08:27 AM
I meant with your 30 yr fixed. What were points at 4.125? I am assuming at 4.25 there was a credit?

I like your saying! Sleep well vs eat well! It's like enjoy now and risk paying later!
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on February 01, 2014, 01:17:27 PM
I meant with your 30 yr fixed. What were points at 4.125? I am assuming at 4.25 there was a credit?

I like your saying! Sleep well vs eat well! It's like enjoy now and risk paying later!

who the hell can sleep well without eating well? thats crazy.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: 0$ on February 01, 2014, 01:52:35 PM
 8)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: 0$ on February 01, 2014, 03:02:37 PM
 ::)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on February 03, 2014, 03:51:40 PM
Whoa...10 year yield down to 2.58.  Down almost 0.5 since the high in early January.

Mortgage Daily has the best execution at 4.25 to 4.375%

Would love to see that drop another .25 or even 0.5
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: sega on February 03, 2014, 10:14:51 PM
BTW, Wells needed 80% LTV, plus a full year's payments (including tax + HOA) in reserve to do the deal. Is that reserve requirement new?
The reserves requirement is new. I think that before it was 3-6 months and recently required 6 months as a minimum (depending on your bank).

12 months is new to me, but I guess Wells wants to be sure.

Based on my recent experience with Wells they have different requirements for different mortgage products. They still have mortgages that require 3 or 6 months of reserves.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: 0$ on February 03, 2014, 11:35:16 PM
 8)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: 0$ on February 04, 2014, 08:59:39 PM
 >:D
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on February 05, 2014, 09:05:53 AM
Thanks for the shout out.

It's pretty common for this kind of "oops, did I forget to tell you...." nonsense to come up when finding a low rate that appears to be a great deal. Either it's tied to an impound account, (undisclosed), an automatic payment (also undisclosed), or some other hoop like also closing with a HELOC at the same time (a notorious practice of some banks back in the day).

The deal isn't just the rate or fees, it's the terms - loan, lock, and language within the agreement -that often turn what looks like a great deal into something else.

Most borrowers sign up for the auto-pay, but I'm curious to know what happens if you cancel it. Mortgage bankers like myself can offer the WF rate reduction program, but the locked rate isn't at the .25% reduction. Post closing, the payment terms are delivered to the customer at -.25% from the note rate. If the auto-pay is cancelled, the payment does revert to the note rate.

Any closed buyers finding they can remove the auto pay and not see a corresponding .25 increase in their rate?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: paperboyNC on February 05, 2014, 11:22:25 AM
Mini-update:

Thanks to Soylent Green is People, I discovered my 4% rate has the "auto-pay" feature baked in, which accounts for .25% -- so I need to sign up for a Wells bank account. Surprisingly, this is nowhere (that I can find) in my disclosures. And it isn't mentioned anywhere in the GFE nor rate lock agreement, yet the loan officer confirmed it. Really odd. Not a deal breaker but the rate makes more sense now.

Secondly... my other lender, Union, is floating but is "matching" the 4.25% rate sans origination fee. So they're essentially at parity.

Choice 1 is Wells with auto-pay and customary fees of ~$2k (appraisal + orig), amounting to less than 1/2 point
Choice 2 is Union with no auto-pay BS and no costs. Buy downs are crazy expensive - a point buys 1/8th.

Feeling Choice 1 is the way to go.... the payback is ~16 months.

I have a Wells Fargo mortgage (both 1st and 2nd). They told me that it's illegal for them to do auto-pay rate reductions on a 1st mortgage (they can't offer lower rates to only certain people as it might be illegal discrimination) and they only offered it to me on my second mortgage.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: 0$ on February 05, 2014, 11:36:03 AM
 :P
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: lnc on February 24, 2014, 11:14:16 AM
Here's interesting graph of 30-year conventional mortgage rate since 1970 from FRED- St Luis Fed.  http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?id=MORTG

I remember my parent bought their home in late 70's with an interest rate of 18%.   When I bough my first home with an interest rate of 9.5%, I though I got the deal of the century.



Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: myirvine on February 25, 2014, 01:39:30 PM
just to update this thread, loan amounts greater than $417,000 with 20% down could get a 4.000% 30 year fixed with 0.25 points in credit.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Westsiiide! on February 25, 2014, 01:56:05 PM
From where?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on February 25, 2014, 02:09:12 PM
I see a 5/1 Jumbo ARM 55%LTV at 2.625% with enough lender credit to cover all costs.  Annie Mac mortgage on zillow.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Homer_Simpson on February 25, 2014, 02:46:20 PM
I see a 5/1 Jumbo ARM 55%LTV at 2.625% with enough lender credit to cover all costs.  Annie Mac mortgage on zillow.

i'm on it!!
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on February 26, 2014, 09:16:23 PM
I see a 5/1 Jumbo ARM 55%LTV at 2.625% with enough lender credit to cover all costs.  Annie Mac mortgage on zillow.

Annie Mac's lender credit went up a bit for the same loan, should have enough leftover to buy a nice Vizio TV now.  Smarter Mortgage also has a 2.625% with almost enough credit to close with no fees.  Trending lower.. need to track closely the next few days
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: 0$ on February 26, 2014, 10:28:35 PM
 :P
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: myirvine on February 27, 2014, 07:19:43 AM
Wow, everyone always seems so skeptical and trying to call BS on everything on this site.  I could offer it at the time of posting.  Not sure what it is today but it should be something close to what I posted on the 25th (if not better due to bond movement yesterday and today).

It was my understanding that this thread was to share general information about what is occurring in the market without having to fully disclose every piece required by law.  The point of "sharing" was to help those looking to buy a home get a general reference point as to where rates stood.  I didn't realize that I needed to attach a 10 page disclaimer anytime I wanted to share a bit of information that I thought might help readers of this site.

I guess that unless my name is OpenSky, SGIP, Irvinehomeowner, etc… everyone else is just spitting BS.

By the way… nice white e-class.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on February 27, 2014, 07:26:01 AM
@myirvine:

I guess you can mention the names of lenders that offer such detail without trying to sell yourself.

Don't let it dissuade you... I'm okay with generalized posts... even ones that "take your breath away". :)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: 0$ on February 27, 2014, 08:25:27 AM
 :P
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: bones on February 27, 2014, 09:04:54 AM
[quote /
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on February 27, 2014, 09:37:30 AM
MyIrvine, that's a pretty wide brush you're spattering with. I don't recall saying that some of these quotes are BS, only to check out the source and confirm.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on February 27, 2014, 10:17:21 AM
Obviously a newbie. IHO spits the most BS!! 
Yeah, you got that right,
I can spit B.S. all day and night.
Cuz that's how I roll,
with my Homie I troll...
And like a bully, I'll beat you in any fight.

I have a patent pending on that by the way... it's called Limerapping.

Word.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: bones on February 27, 2014, 10:34:03 AM
/
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: SoCal on February 27, 2014, 10:39:02 AM
(http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m225/maritajan/smileys/girliepopcorn.gif)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on February 27, 2014, 10:40:12 AM
that.was.terrible.
Also the 90s called and would like their word back.  Word.
Bully!
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: bones on February 27, 2014, 10:41:09 AM
/
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on February 27, 2014, 10:43:07 AM
Also the 90s called and would like their word back.  Word.
You forgot... I love the 80s-90s.

But it should have been "Wood"... qwerter insurance.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: SoCal on February 27, 2014, 10:51:04 AM
Score

Bones: 1
Iho: 0
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Homer_Simpson on February 27, 2014, 11:14:00 AM
I'm glad myirvine didn't call me out!! Phew!
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on March 03, 2014, 12:46:30 PM
Well, the one "good" thing (maybe the only thing) that has come out of the Russia invasion of Ukraine is that investors are buying up T-bills again...yield went from 2.70 to 2.60 in a day.   
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: 0$ on March 03, 2014, 01:08:23 PM
:P
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on March 03, 2014, 05:16:03 PM
Mortgage Daily says best execution is still 4.375% but I am not sure about the points.

http://www.mortgagenewsdaily.com/consumer_rates/346905.aspx

Also, this guy clearly has his priorities straight

Quote
"Temporary help from Russia with love. We'll take what ever we can in a week like this one. Hard to see rates being better this morning if not for Russia. If you can lock it's a good idea. Lots of economic data out starting today and getting juicy on Weds with Friday the big jobs report. We're hoping that Fridays report builds on the poor Dec and Jan reports. If it surprises to the upside with any upward revisions to previous months, then hold on because rates are going higher." -Michael Owens, VP of Mortgage Lending at Guaranteed Rate, Inc NMLS # 107434.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: 0$ on March 03, 2014, 05:33:54 PM
 :o
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: paperboyNC on March 04, 2014, 09:21:45 AM

Quick update - we closed, they funded same day based on a scan copy of signed docs. Wells also credited $1k to the deal (!!!); SGIP thinks it was based on the "oops" surrounding lack of disclosure of the auto-pay requirement, they said it was based on the commercial relationship with my employer. Personally, I don't care why -- I'll take it, along with the tax write-off for the origination fee.  8)

So I changed the auto-pay option today to my non-Wells bank of choice. Faxed it in and called to follow up, confirming it was changed accordingly. My loan hasn't turned into a 4.25% pumpkin yet.

Per SGIP "if it isn't in writing, it doesn't exist" so I trust my rate won't escalate with the change. Still at 4.0% :)

I'll close my account with Wells next month then report an update.

Sounds like fun. Wells gave me last minute lender credits too when I closed with them. Best of luck and enjoy the new home.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on April 10, 2014, 03:00:42 PM
Plenty of analysts are coming out with "sub 2.50% 10 yr Treasuries ahead" research. Perhaps all of that "It's all weather related..." economic commentary is starting to give way to a more realistic view of where we're headed. The FOMC minutes, falling stocks, and weak econ news are combining to  push mortgage rates back into buyer friendly territory. What are you seeing out there today?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: lnc on April 10, 2014, 03:40:27 PM
Plenty of analysts are coming out with "sub 2.50% 10 yr Treasuries ahead" research. Perhaps all of that "It's all weather related..." economic commentary is starting to give way to a more realistic view of where we're headed. The FOMC minutes, falling stocks, and weak econ news are combining to  push mortgage rates back into buyer friendly territory. What are you seeing out there today?

Yep, looks like the fixed mortgage rate tick down a bit..

30-year fixed-rate mortgage (FRM) averaged 4.34 percent with an average 0.7 point for the week ending April 10, 2014, down from last week when it averaged 4.41 percent. A year ago at this time, the 30-year FRM averaged 3.43 percent.

15-year FRM this week averaged 3.38 percent with an average 0.6 point, down from last week when it averaged 3.47 percent. A year ago at this time, the 15-year FRM averaged 2.65 percent.

http://freddiemac.mwnewsroom.com/press-releases/fixed-mortgage-rates-tick-down-otcqb-fmcc-1105833
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on April 10, 2014, 03:42:39 PM
5/1 Jumbo 55%LTV, 2.625%, Annie Mac on Zillow

Quite a bit of movement last few days.

@SGIP, is there a sweet spot for loans around 55%LTV?  If I change the loan amt by a dollar the rates change quite a bit.  We're talking a dollar difference here (55.05 vs 55.049). 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on April 10, 2014, 03:45:44 PM
That was with enough credit to close with no fees and a little to spare
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on April 10, 2014, 03:55:31 PM
For most lenders it's 60% LTV. It also helps if you have a pre-existing relationship with the funding bank. Most of the "biggies" have some strong discounts in rate for current bank / credit card / loan clients.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: gld2 on April 10, 2014, 04:00:53 PM
Wow,  this is low.  Have you used Annie Mac on Zillow before?


5/1 Jumbo 55%LTV, 2.625%, Annie Mac on Zillow

Quite a bit of movement last few days.

@SGIP, is there a sweet spot for loans around 55%LTV?  If I change the loan amt by a dollar the rates change quite a bit.  We're talking a dollar difference here (55.05 vs 55.049).
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on April 10, 2014, 04:37:26 PM
55% LTV? See, ps9 is a 1%er FCB.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on April 10, 2014, 05:27:21 PM
Wow,  this is low.  Have you used Annie Mac on Zillow before?


5/1 Jumbo 55%LTV, 2.625%, Annie Mac on Zillow

Quite a bit of movement last few days.

@SGIP, is there a sweet spot for loans around 55%LTV?  If I change the loan amt by a dollar the rates change quite a bit.  We're talking a dollar difference here (55.05 vs 55.049).

Nope, NJ broker, did contact them when rates were this low awile back, seems like any other Jersey mortgage broker business I dealt with in the past, refi's are pretty boilerplate
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on April 10, 2014, 05:29:46 PM
55% LTV? See, ps9 is a 1%er FCB.

Just money on paper, bought at the right time.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 28, 2014, 04:59:30 PM
10 year note just hit a yield of 2.45...dropping it to about where it was July/August of last year.  Mortgage rates are at about 4-4.25 for a 30 year. 

http://www.mortgagenewsdaily.com/consumer_rates/367678.aspx

Japan just came out with terrible retail numbers and China's real estate market and economy is slowing down again.   Germany had a disappointing jobs report.

All that means that people may be buying US Treasuries again...I wonder how far the yield will go until the Fed removes more bond buying.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on May 28, 2014, 08:02:50 PM
Already submitted my application, just waiting for the target rate before pulling trigger
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: paperboyNC on May 29, 2014, 08:17:45 AM
Any recommendations for a mortgage lender with the following scenario:

Jumbo Loan
Looking for 5/1 or 5/5 ARM under 3% starting rate
LTV around 60% for a cash-out refi to pay off 2nd mortgage and other debts
No or low fees
Debt-to-Income ratio at 3% around 45% of easily verifiable income
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on May 29, 2014, 08:53:14 AM
Annie Mac, smarter mortgage, and aurora financial,all three on zillow, typical east coast mortgage shop, if you're self sufficient with refi, these guys are quick.  Trying for 2.5% 5/1 Jumbo 55% LTV, no impounds, no cash out, and no COSTS at closing.  This is with Annie Mac.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 29, 2014, 10:23:04 AM
In 30 years, ps9 will still be refi'ing his loan. :)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: paperboyNC on May 29, 2014, 10:25:00 AM
Annie Mac, smarter mortgage, and aurora financial,all three on zillow, typical east coast mortgage shop, if you're self sufficient with refi, these guys are quick.  Trying for 2.5% 5/1 Jumbo 55% LTV, no impounds, no cash out, and no COSTS at closing.  This is with Annie Mac.

Will they do the same rate for 60% LTV? Do they allow cash out? Is it advantageous for me to contact your guy there (PM ME?) or should I just apply online?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on May 29, 2014, 11:54:59 AM
In 30 years, ps9 will still be refi'ing his loan. :)

I like gambling with paper money :)

The way I see it, I'm paying lower interest and making additional principal payments annually when I refi, I'll be done with this loan quicker than a 30yr.  I'm not scared of the 'what if' scenario just care about the 'now' scenario. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on May 29, 2014, 11:56:47 AM
Just spoke with Annie Mac, looks like Chase requires 30-45 days to approve jumbos.  So 30 day lock today at 2.5% with $2400 credit won't work.  Back to the drawing board.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: paperboyNC on May 29, 2014, 01:08:05 PM
Just spoke with Annie Mac, looks like Chase requires 30-45 days to approve jumbos.  So 30 day lock today at 2.5% with $2400 credit won't work.  Back to the drawing board.

Why won't it work? I must be slow because I don't get it.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on May 29, 2014, 02:00:50 PM
Lock is 30 days, if loan doesn't get approved its gonna cost money past the 30 day mark
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on May 29, 2014, 02:19:25 PM
@ paperboy, I would just punch your info thru zillow, my guy was Don Latka from Annie Mac, he speaks well, a faint jersey accent (I had worse).  Seems to be on top of things.  I believe rates should be better past the 55% LTV mark.  Cash out would also bump up rates as well, though I never refi w/cash out before, so not 100%.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: paperboyNC on May 29, 2014, 04:35:52 PM
@ paperboy, I would just punch your info thru zillow, my guy was Don Latka from Annie Mac, he speaks well, a faint jersey accent (I had worse).  Seems to be on top of things.  I believe rates should be better past the 55% LTV mark.  Cash out would also bump up rates as well, though I never refi w/cash out before, so not 100%.

Zillow didn't list Annie Mac anywhere in the first page for me. They showed 2.5% for a 5/1 with no cash-out and 2.625% with cash-out through Home Loans.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on May 29, 2014, 04:44:49 PM
I would check tomorrow, lenders sometimes pull their listing, not sure why, I check rates almost religiously twice weekly, the three lenders I mentioned has been consistently lowest, especially Annie Mac.  Check or call tomorrow around 6am PST, I would at least put in applications with 2-3 lenders, then towards the end of day have them contact you if the rates hit your target, so you can lock right away.  If you wait and put in your app, they'll get flooded when rates drop and would be hard to lock.  My experience with 2.5% rates is that they don't last that long.  Jump in now.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on May 30, 2014, 07:16:05 AM
Rates are trending up, missed my chance
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 30, 2014, 08:11:41 AM
Rates are trending up, missed my chance

It will move up and down.  Sellers are coming back after the run up.  The jobs numbers watch will start again.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: hexa on June 11, 2014, 08:23:32 AM
Citi has good rates. You can get as low as 3.625% on a 30 year fixed jumbo with a bit of credit back if you move a lot of your savings/investment accounts over to them. Base rate is competitive and then a sliding scale to lower rate up to 3/8% depending on what you move over. But NO requirement to keep accounts there as soon as day loan closes. Assumes 80% ltv and good credit.
Service ok, but prob not as good as SGIP or WF.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: LiveAtOC on June 30, 2014, 02:45:13 PM
Does any lender offering better discount rates compare to internet display market rates  for 30 years fixed or 15/15 year ARM on new purchase jumbo loan?

Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on June 30, 2014, 09:57:31 PM
The 15/15 ARM is really a rare breed so whatever you see from PenFed or Wescom is about as good as it's going to get.   The caps on those ARM loans really make it interesting, however given the half life of most loans today means most borrowers are not going to experience a rate change and or cap.

I saw PenFed (6/30/2014) has a sweet 3.875% for .25 points.....er wait a second.... what's that 1.0% origination fee??  So the rate is actually 3.875% for 1.25 points - a "meh" rate compared to most. It's pretty tough to get a really outstanding 30 fixed without going directly to one of the biggies. As noted earlier, Citi's got a nice program if you're willing to push some cash over to their bank. I'd ask around as to who's closed through Citi before proceeding. Don't know anyone who has, so that's not a slur against them - just be sure you speak to a borrower, not the loan officer, on what the process was like.

What I do know is that their origination software is still Win 95 level tech which is likely to cause some friction in the process along the way towards closing.

My .02c

Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on June 30, 2014, 10:02:50 PM
The 15/15 ARM is really a rare breed so whatever you see from PenFed or Wescom is about as good as it's going to get.   The caps on those ARM loans really make it interesting, however given the half life of most loans today means most borrowers are not going to experience a rate change and or cap.

I saw PenFed (6/30/2014) has a sweet 3.875% for .25 points.....er wait a second.... what's that 1.0% origination fee??  So the rate is actually 3.875% for 1.25 points - a "meh" rate compared to most. It's pretty tough to get a really outstanding 30 fixed without going directly to one of the biggies. As noted earlier, Citi's got a nice program if you're willing to push some cash over to their bank. I'd ask around as to who's closed through Citi before proceeding. Don't know anyone who has, so that's not a slur against them - just be sure you speak to a borrower, not the loan officer, on what the process was like.

What I do know is that their origination software is still Win 95 level tech which is likely to cause some friction in the process along the way towards closing.

My .02c


Yeah, the only loan program where PenFed doesn't hit you with the 1% origination fee is on the 5/5 ARM loan. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on July 12, 2014, 12:11:37 AM
Seems like I got a zillow broker to play ball:  2.5% 5/1 ARM Jumbo, no impounds, 55%LTV and most important enough credit to cover all third party costs.  This is with RWMI lender.  They're based in San Diego, so that's a plus we're in the same time zone.  My lender was emailing up until 9:30pm tonight!  That's service!  Usually these zillow brokers don't hold your hand much and I have to press to get things done, hopefully this one will be a slam dunk.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on July 14, 2014, 04:16:14 PM
Looks like i have to pay $71 at closing to cover all costs, so not a no cost refi, but Ill take it.  Time to kick the can again.  No other zillow lender is close to RWMI. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on July 14, 2014, 07:09:12 PM
Looks like i have to pay $71 at closing to cover all costs, so not a no cost refi, but Ill take it.  Time to kick the can again.  No other zillow lender is close to RWMI. 
I'll give them a jingle since I'm at 2.75% and about 2.5 years into my PenFed 5/5 ARM loan. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on July 15, 2014, 07:21:22 AM
Now i wonder if all this is worth it, refi from 2.5% to 2.5%, paying some principal down at closing, so I'm saving about $600/year in interest, my monthly payment goes down by $150, and I have 5 more years to live in the house.  Probably refi a few more times and pay more principal down the road.

If I refi into a 30yr instead, I will pay about $50k more in interest alone versus a 5/1 ARM at the end of the 5th year.  Not to mention less principal will be paid down as well.  I just don't see myself getting a 30yr ever again.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on July 15, 2014, 08:09:33 AM
If this is not your last home (which I don't think it is)... kicking the can isn't a bad thing as you are basically helping your cash flow and increasing equity (by lowering principal quicker).

We've wondered if our last home really would be our "last" home considering that once the kids move out, the home will be too large for us and that's when you downsize as the equity built even over 15 years should be enough to cover a smaller home. My wife says that we should keep it so we have something to give our kids but who knows what the kids will want at that time. For all I know, they will sell it, split the proceeds among themselves and put us in an old folks home.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: bones on July 15, 2014, 08:10:59 AM
asdf
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Homer_Simpson on July 15, 2014, 08:14:05 AM
If this is not your last home (which I don't think it is)... kicking the can isn't a bad thing as you are basically helping your cash flow and increasing equity (by lowering principal quicker).

We've wondered if our last home really would be our "last" home considering that once the kids move out, the home will be too large for us and that's when you downsize as the equity built even over 15 years should be enough to cover a smaller home. My wife says that we should keep it so we have something to give our kids but who knows what the kids will want at that time. For all I know, they will sell it, split the proceeds among themselves and put us in an old folks home.

No home is too big for you IHO!
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on July 15, 2014, 08:27:10 AM
Whats your exit when rates go up?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: bones on July 15, 2014, 08:31:08 AM
asdf
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on July 15, 2014, 08:35:37 AM
Whats your exit when rates go up?
Depending on how far you kicked the can and with what terms, if you do take your ARM to either 5 or 7 and rates have gone up, you have a few options:

1. Wait it out, most ARMs have a provision on how high it can jump per year and what it maxes out at, if you can afford both... you may just sit.

2. Refi into another ARM when your adjusted rate is higher than that refi.

3. Refi into a 15 or 10 fixed that may have a lower rate than your adjusted rate.

4. Don't pay and squat for free for at least 1 or 2 years. :)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Homer_Simpson on July 15, 2014, 09:16:49 AM
Exit plan would to pay it off..
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on July 15, 2014, 09:20:32 AM
Exit plan would to pay it off..
Stupid 1%er logic. :)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on July 15, 2014, 09:28:05 AM
Just trying to think of a 'worst scenario' with 5/1 ARMs.  Kinda like the Tenth Man scenario from World War Z.  I just can't find a situation where a 30 yr makes sense to me.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on July 15, 2014, 09:30:58 AM
Exit plan would to pay it off..

Straight cash homie.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on July 15, 2014, 10:12:02 AM
Worst scenario with any ARM is what is the maximum rate you will have to pay and can you afford it.

So if your 5/1 ARM is 2.5%, what is the cap? Most ARMs usually have a 5% max cap, so can you afford payments at a 7.5% rate, because that is your 10th man.

In the case of a real 10th man scenario... you win... zero mortgage payments and you saved money to buy Tyler Durden shotguns and extra momopi survival kits.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on July 15, 2014, 11:44:11 AM
Whats your exit when rates go up?
As mentioned before....payoff/pay down the loan, suck it up and pay the higher rate, refi into a lower rate ARM or fixed loan, or sell. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: bones on July 15, 2014, 01:29:12 PM
zxcv
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on July 15, 2014, 02:02:44 PM
I'm not playing 10th Man anymore, somebody paint me a worst scenario, maybe OpenSky?

I just can't get over the fact that the 30yr mortgage is the most popular program out there, why do people pay all that interest to lenders?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on July 15, 2014, 02:03:54 PM
I'm assuming when you say "rates go up", they go really up so a refi scenario is out of the equation?
In that case, the exit would be to sell or deal with the cap payments.  My cap is around 7%.  Would suck but not doomsday.
Yup, I'd suck it up and probably do a paydown to get the payment increase minimized.  As if you have strong savings/cash reserves, getting an ARM loan is a no brainer since you can bring the payment down if the worst case happens and your rate goes to the cap. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on July 15, 2014, 02:07:09 PM
I'm not playing 10th Man anymore, somebody paint me a worst scenario, maybe OpenSky?

I just can't get over the fact that the 30yr mortgage is the most popular program out there, why do people pay all that interest to lenders?
Doomsday is you hit the cap at the end of the fixed period and you stay there for the rest of the amortizing term.  Because most people are highly risk averse and they can't stomach any kind of interest rate risk.  As I tell my buyers, getting a 30-year fixed loan is like buying $10m of liability insurance and having your car coverage at $5m.  It basically covers you head to toe.  However, if buyers can handle a little interest rate risk and have good cash management then an ARM loan is a great option.  ARM loans are no these scary things that came along in the bubble days 10 years ago, they have been around for decades and decades.  I love the fast that I have a lower monthly payment AND I pay down my loan balance faster each month. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: bones on July 15, 2014, 02:08:53 PM
[qzxcv
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on July 15, 2014, 02:12:30 PM
I had this crazy idea (throwing this out there to PS9)....what happens if you had enough cash to pay off your loan but you choose to refi every few months and with a lender credit to where you fund your property tax & insurance impound reserve.  You pay off the loan days/weeks after you close it....rinse and repeat....you basically keep walking away with lender credits each refi.  In summary....

1. Refi paid off home
2. Get lender credits to fund impound reserves
3. Payoff loan days/weeks after closing
4. Lender refunds your impound reserves
5. Profit
6. Rinse & Repeat
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on July 15, 2014, 02:14:08 PM
It's possible, unless Chase catches on to you...
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on July 15, 2014, 02:17:54 PM
I just can't get over the fact that the 30yr mortgage is the most popular program out there, why do people pay all that interest to lenders?
Uncertainty mainly.

If a 30-year is at 5% now, people don't want to risk paying 7.5% later even though odds are they will probably sell that home before then. And the whole "refi" solution is also uncertain because what if their financial situation has changed and they can't qualify for a refi (self-employed, job loss, etc)?

After my first home, I've never carried a 30-year fixed on my primary rez. I even had one of those toxic O-Arms that everyone claimed were going to explode during the bubble (it didn't, since interest rates dropped, I was actually paying off more principal because my minimum payment was higher than fully amortized P&I).

So the 10th man actually is if you have a job loss or drop in income and can't afford the fully capped rate. At that point, you can't refi because you won't qualify and the 2.5% difference in rate payment is what puts you into foreclosure rather than scraping by.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: 0$ on July 15, 2014, 02:28:09 PM
8)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: bones on July 15, 2014, 02:29:36 PM
[quote azxcv
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on July 15, 2014, 02:32:44 PM
Yes... on our rental it's a 30-year. More 10th man scenarios with property that is not your primary residence... esp ones where you can't charge market rent.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on July 15, 2014, 02:36:35 PM
That's a lot of shit hitting the fan at the same time.  Job loss.  In the 7th year of a 5/1 ARM.  But didn't do anything about it in Years 1-6 so I'm guessing super high rate environment.  At that point - just squat.
Health problems is a 10th man you may not be able to prepare for.

Can't get re-employed, disability might only cover your lower rate payment... etc etc.

Being young and healthy doesn't really protect you... as it won't stop a bad car accident that leaves you unable to earn income.

ps9 is making me scare myself.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on July 15, 2014, 02:55:40 PM
I would also add that the mortgage market and rates are incredibly outside of historic norms.  During the bubble times, Greenspan's free market philosophies, the separation of mortgage risk from the lender to general investors, and the toxic nature of how mortgages were sold led to insanely low rates.  Home value, and not risk, became the primary (and sometimes only) measure to issue loans.

When the bubble burst, the global market went into meltdown mode, interest rates remained super low because of things like QE.  Thus, if you got an ARM 5 years ago, there is a good chance that your loan rate is not significantly high because rates like LIBOR is basically zero.

Going forward however, I expect the interest rates to go back up to 7-9% in the next 5 years or so.  Since I intend to stay in my house for the next 20 years, I see no reason to risk that jump when I already have an incredibly low rate historically. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on July 15, 2014, 03:07:07 PM
Going forward however, I expect the interest rates to go back up to 7-9% in the next 5 years or so.
I'm not so sure about that... which is why a 5/1 would be ideal right now.

When rates were 7, people said they would get to 10, and when it got down to 5, people said back to 8. The economy has adjusted to this low rate environment and to go back to the 7-9% range in 5 years would be a drastic shift.

Maybe in 10-15 years... but 5 or so? But then again, no one ever thought rates would dip below 3.5%.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on July 15, 2014, 03:14:45 PM
Going forward however, I expect the interest rates to go back up to 7-9% in the next 5 years or so.
I'm not so sure about that... which is why a 5/1 would be ideal right now.

When rates were 7, people said they would get to 10, and when it got down to 5, people said back to 8. The economy has adjusted to this low rate environment and to go back to the 7-9% range in 5 years would be a drastic shift.

Maybe in 10-15 years... but 5 or so? But then again, no one ever thought rates would dip below 3.5%.

In a "normal" economy rates of 7-9% is pretty much what you get.  Only the unprecedented events in the past 10 years in both monetary policy, lending standards, and global economic issues have caused the low rates.  5 years is about when I expect the economy to fully recover.

http://www.freddiemac.com/pmms/pmms30.htm

1990s was close to "normal" and had interest rate between 7-10%.  You couple that with very high home prices, a lot of pain will be felt if rates readjusts 3-4%. 

A $750,000 loan at 3% has a P&I payment of about $3,200.  At 4.5%, payment is $3,800.  That loan at 7% bumps the payment up to $5,000.  9% is over $6,000. 

This is not even doomsday stuff.  Doomsday would have the Fed pulling QE and letting rates go whereever they may.  Banks and lenders remain risk averse and overcompensate risk with interest rates and pushing rates into double digit.  Meanwhile, investors sensing a rise in interests, pull out of stock and buy bonds/commodities leading to more increase in rates.  We haven't even gotten to possible inflation.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: paperboyNC on July 15, 2014, 03:47:33 PM
In a "normal" economy rates of 7-9% is pretty much what you get.  Only the unprecedented events in the past 10 years in both monetary policy, lending standards, and global economic issues have caused the low rates.  5 years is about when I expect the economy to fully recover.

http://www.freddiemac.com/pmms/pmms30.htm

1990s was close to "normal" and had interest rate between 7-10%.  You couple that with very high home prices, a lot of pain will be felt if rates readjusts 3-4%. 

A $750,000 loan at 3% has a P&I payment of about $3,200.  At 4.5%, payment is $3,800.  That loan at 7% bumps the payment up to $5,000.  9% is over $6,000. 

This is not even doomsday stuff.  Doomsday would have the Fed pulling QE and letting rates go whereever they may.  Banks and lenders remain risk averse and overcompensate risk with interest rates and pushing rates into double digit.  Meanwhile, investors sensing a rise in interests, pull out of stock and buy bonds/commodities leading to more increase in rates.  We haven't even gotten to possible inflation.

One reason why an ARM is great for me is that I don't plan to stay in my home for 30 years and don't want to feel stuck in my home because of my fixed rate mortgage and prop 13.

In response to your prediction of higher rates - global economic growth is slowing so it's hard to find good investment opportunities for cash. High quality mortgages are a great investment so rates will likely stay low for the rest of my life. Maybe not 4% low, but I doubt they ever get to 7% again.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: 0$ on July 15, 2014, 03:59:45 PM
8)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on July 15, 2014, 04:14:13 PM
Going forward however, I expect the interest rates to go back up to 7-9% in the next 5 years or so.
I'm not so sure about that... which is why a 5/1 would be ideal right now.

When rates were 7, people said they would get to 10, and when it got down to 5, people said back to 8. The economy has adjusted to this low rate environment and to go back to the 7-9% range in 5 years would be a drastic shift.

Maybe in 10-15 years... but 5 or so? But then again, no one ever thought rates would dip below 3.5%.

In a "normal" economy rates of 7-9% is pretty much what you get.  Only the unprecedented events in the past 10 years in both monetary policy, lending standards, and global economic issues have caused the low rates.  5 years is about when I expect the economy to fully recover.

http://www.freddiemac.com/pmms/pmms30.htm

1990s was close to "normal" and had interest rate between 7-10%.  You couple that with very high home prices, a lot of pain will be felt if rates readjusts 3-4%. 

A $750,000 loan at 3% has a P&I payment of about $3,200.  At 4.5%, payment is $3,800.  That loan at 7% bumps the payment up to $5,000.  9% is over $6,000. 

This is not even doomsday stuff.  Doomsday would have the Fed pulling QE and letting rates go whereever they may.  Banks and lenders remain risk averse and overcompensate risk with interest rates and pushing rates into double digit.  Meanwhile, investors sensing a rise in interests, pull out of stock and buy bonds/commodities leading to more increase in rates.  We haven't even gotten to possible inflation.

You really think the US govt can afford to let rates go that high with the amount of debt that the US has?  Come on, the Fed will keep rates in check as the economy will continue to improve slowly.  So if rates do go to 9%, my rate is capped at 7.5% so I'd be in good shape (besides the fact that I could pay down my loan amount).  Remember that the loan payment adjustments both on the rate AND on the loan balance when it re-amortizes after the fixed period. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on July 15, 2014, 04:33:22 PM
Going forward however, I expect the interest rates to go back up to 7-9% in the next 5 years or so.
I'm not so sure about that... which is why a 5/1 would be ideal right now.

When rates were 7, people said they would get to 10, and when it got down to 5, people said back to 8. The economy has adjusted to this low rate environment and to go back to the 7-9% range in 5 years would be a drastic shift.

Maybe in 10-15 years... but 5 or so? But then again, no one ever thought rates would dip below 3.5%.

In a "normal" economy rates of 7-9% is pretty much what you get.  Only the unprecedented events in the past 10 years in both monetary policy, lending standards, and global economic issues have caused the low rates.  5 years is about when I expect the economy to fully recover.

http://www.freddiemac.com/pmms/pmms30.htm

1990s was close to "normal" and had interest rate between 7-10%.  You couple that with very high home prices, a lot of pain will be felt if rates readjusts 3-4%. 

A $750,000 loan at 3% has a P&I payment of about $3,200.  At 4.5%, payment is $3,800.  That loan at 7% bumps the payment up to $5,000.  9% is over $6,000. 

This is not even doomsday stuff.  Doomsday would have the Fed pulling QE and letting rates go whereever they may.  Banks and lenders remain risk averse and overcompensate risk with interest rates and pushing rates into double digit.  Meanwhile, investors sensing a rise in interests, pull out of stock and buy bonds/commodities leading to more increase in rates.  We haven't even gotten to possible inflation.

You really think the US govt can afford to let rates go that high with the amount of debt that the US has?  Come on, the Fed will keep rates in check as the economy will continue to improve slowly.  So if rates do go to 9%, my rate is capped at 7.5% so I'd be in good shape (besides the fact that I could pay down my loan amount).  Remember that the loan payment adjustments both on the rate AND on the loan balance when it re-amortizes after the fixed period.

Fed is already start the ease up on the policy...I think that 1% a year is about where the Fed wants to go.  That's why I put 5 years.  I believe that the US economy could be back to "normal" growth and inflation by that point.

I definitely think that ARM works for you but it doesn't work for many people especially in this era of high housing prices.   Most people are already buying at or near their max and with wages being stagnant, they can't bare the risk.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on July 15, 2014, 07:49:44 PM
Going forward however, I expect the interest rates to go back up to 7-9% in the next 5 years or so.
I'm not so sure about that... which is why a 5/1 would be ideal right now.

When rates were 7, people said they would get to 10, and when it got down to 5, people said back to 8. The economy has adjusted to this low rate environment and to go back to the 7-9% range in 5 years would be a drastic shift.

Maybe in 10-15 years... but 5 or so? But then again, no one ever thought rates would dip below 3.5%.

In a "normal" economy rates of 7-9% is pretty much what you get.  Only the unprecedented events in the past 10 years in both monetary policy, lending standards, and global economic issues have caused the low rates.  5 years is about when I expect the economy to fully recover.

http://www.freddiemac.com/pmms/pmms30.htm

1990s was close to "normal" and had interest rate between 7-10%.  You couple that with very high home prices, a lot of pain will be felt if rates readjusts 3-4%. 

A $750,000 loan at 3% has a P&I payment of about $3,200.  At 4.5%, payment is $3,800.  That loan at 7% bumps the payment up to $5,000.  9% is over $6,000. 

This is not even doomsday stuff.  Doomsday would have the Fed pulling QE and letting rates go whereever they may.  Banks and lenders remain risk averse and overcompensate risk with interest rates and pushing rates into double digit.  Meanwhile, investors sensing a rise in interests, pull out of stock and buy bonds/commodities leading to more increase in rates.  We haven't even gotten to possible inflation.

You really think the US govt can afford to let rates go that high with the amount of debt that the US has?  Come on, the Fed will keep rates in check as the economy will continue to improve slowly.  So if rates do go to 9%, my rate is capped at 7.5% so I'd be in good shape (besides the fact that I could pay down my loan amount).  Remember that the loan payment adjustments both on the rate AND on the loan balance when it re-amortizes after the fixed period.

Fed is already start the ease up on the policy...I think that 1% a year is about where the Fed wants to go.  That's why I put 5 years.  I believe that the US economy could be back to "normal" growth and inflation by that point.

I definitely think that ARM works for you but it doesn't work for many people especially in this era of high housing prices.   Most people are already buying at or near their max and with wages being stagnant, they can't bare the risk.
One thing that I will agree on with you is that people should not use ARM loans to stretch to buy a property (i.e. they qualify using an ARM loan but can't qualify if they get a 30-year fixed loan).  You definitely want to have cash reserves and be good with your money management before you think about getting an ARM loan.  Gotta go into it with your eyes wide open.  Btw, most people don't even realize that the adjustments for the ARM loans are based upon SHORT TERM LIBOR rates, not long term bonds rates or what 30-year fixed loan rates are. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: i1 on July 15, 2014, 08:06:39 PM
I'm not playing 10th Man anymore, somebody paint me a worst scenario, maybe OpenSky?

I just can't get over the fact that the 30yr mortgage is the most popular program out there, why do people pay all that interest to lenders?
Let's assume you can comfortably pay off your balance and/or comfortably make cap rate payments so forget the worst case of losing home. Still think 30 yr can make sense even though i doubt rates go up more than 1-2pts in next ~5 years. But suppose avg rates are ~2-3pts higher from 2020-2040 (50/50 chance?).

There is a big oppty cost if you have to pay down your loan or make higher payments 2020-2040. If you're wired to paying down a mortgage for "peace of mind" reasons, then you don't care because you'll be mortgage-free by then anyway, but then in that case you may miss out on some of the benefits of current low long-term rates.

Hypothetically, why not cash-out refi to 80% ltv on 30-yr fixed to guarantee yourself cheap source of funds if you want to move up to a larger home in the future (like la vita 4) while keeping your current place a rental? Rather than be "all-in" on low rates when you're ready to move up later?

On the margin, having an ARM on primary residence reduces your ability to take risk elsewhere imo. Buy or co-invest in a side biz? Buy another rental? Bonds, stocks? If your primary residence is fixed, you can more safely do those things imo.

Even at today's rates, it's not hard to get a return similar to mortgage rates in tax-free munis. Or get a ~7-8% return in bonds with modest leverage and reasonable risk. If rates go higher, you'll be able to get even higher return than your mortgage with lower risk.

So instead of saving the $$ upfront, you might make more over 20-30 yrs by taking as much cheap money as you can now and some modest risk.

Also, if rates go up, you might lose some flexibility. Maybe the move up home is less feasible now? Or maybe you can't sell your current place for as much as you hoped?

So if your goal is to pay off home quick, i'd agree 5-year arm is better. if goal is to take advantage of cheap long-term money and you want more freedom to make other investments, i'd say 30-year may make sense.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on July 15, 2014, 08:35:18 PM
I'm not playing 10th Man anymore, somebody paint me a worst scenario, maybe OpenSky?

I just can't get over the fact that the 30yr mortgage is the most popular program out there, why do people pay all that interest to lenders?
Let's assume you can comfortably pay off your balance and/or comfortably make cap rate payments so forget the worst case of losing home. Still think 30 yr can make sense even though i doubt rates go up more than 1-2pts in next ~5 years. But suppose avg rates are ~2-3pts higher from 2020-2040 (50/50 chance?).

There is a big oppty cost if you have to pay down your loan or make higher payments 2020-2040. If you're wired to paying down a mortgage for "peace of mind" reasons, then you don't care because you'll be mortgage-free by then anyway, but then in that case you may miss out on some of the benefits of current low long-term rates.

Hypothetically, why not cash-out refi to 80% ltv on 30-yr fixed to guarantee yourself cheap source of funds if you want to move up to a larger home in the future (like la vita 4) while keeping your current place a rental? Rather than be "all-in" on low rates when you're ready to move up later?

On the margin, having an ARM on primary residence reduces your ability to take risk elsewhere imo. Buy or co-invest in a side biz? Buy another rental? Bonds, stocks? If your primary residence is fixed, you can more safely do those things imo.

Even at today's rates, it's not hard to get a return similar to mortgage rates in tax-free munis. Or get a ~7-8% return in bonds with modest leverage and reasonable risk. If rates go higher, you'll be able to get even higher return than your mortgage with lower risk.

So instead of saving the $$ upfront, you might make more over 20-30 yrs by taking as much cheap money as you can now and some modest risk.

Also, if rates go up, you might lose some flexibility. Maybe the move up home is less feasible now? Or maybe you can't sell your current place for as much as you hoped?

So if your goal is to pay off home quick, i'd agree 5-year arm is better. if goal is to take advantage of cheap long-term money and you want more freedom to make other investments, i'd say 30-year may make sense.
I can't speak for PS9 of anyone else who got an ARM loan but I got an ARM because I wanted to have more money to invest with.  I would say that a lot of the people that get 30-year fixed loans do so because they don't understand how an ARM loan works.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: i1 on July 15, 2014, 08:45:52 PM
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Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Westsiiide! on July 15, 2014, 08:57:51 PM
not a perfect analogy, but if a company took on debt, would the company be stupid for taking on 30 yr fixed rate debt (at today's rates)?

Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: bones on July 15, 2014, 09:05:10 PM
asdf
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: paperboyNC on July 15, 2014, 09:08:02 PM
not a perfect analogy, but if a company took on debt, would the company be stupid for taking on 30 yr fixed rate debt (at today's rates)?

Quite different. If I could borrow money that was not attached to anything (the equivalent of a corporate 30 year bond) I would definitely get a fixed rate mortgage.  I would probably split the home loan into 3 loans with 1 loan being a 30 year fixed, 1 loan being a 10yr ARM and the last loan being a 5yr ARM.

I am refinancing my mortgage right now after having an ARM for a few years. I saved $9,400 total in 28 months with the ARM compare to the 30yr fixed and since I'm refi-ing the 30yr fixed would have been a complete waste of almost 10 grand.

The biggest reason 30yr mortgages suck is that you lose your locked in rate if you move to another home. Corporations don't face that problem. Of course you can keep your old home as a rental and still keep that locked in rate, but I don't plan to do that.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: i1 on July 15, 2014, 09:09:57 PM
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Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on July 15, 2014, 10:41:19 PM
not a perfect analogy, but if a company took on debt, would the company be stupid for taking on 30 yr fixed rate debt (at today's rates)?

Quite different. If I could borrow money that was not attached to anything (the equivalent of a corporate 30 year bond) I would definitely get a fixed rate mortgage.  I would probably split the home loan into 3 loans with 1 loan being a 30 year fixed, 1 loan being a 10yr ARM and the last loan being a 5yr ARM.

I am refinancing my mortgage right now after having an ARM for a few years. I saved $9,400 total in 28 months with the ARM compare to the 30yr fixed and since I'm refi-ing the 30yr fixed would have been a complete waste of almost 10 grand.

The biggest reason 30yr mortgages suck is that you lose your locked in rate if you move to another home. Corporations don't face that problem. Of course you can keep your old home as a rental and still keep that locked in rate, but I don't plan to do that.

well you gambled and won. a lot of folks have gambled with ARMS and lost.  i could have done a 5 yr ARM at 2.65 back in december of 2012 but went with a 30 year at 3.75% instead.  from a pure financial perspective i probably would have been better off, in the first 5 years i would have saved about 30K in interest before the tax benefit and about 17K after the tax benefit, but after that its unknown and having the fixed rate gives me more flexibility and peace of mind. Im not going to sweat over 17K over a five year period. im paying off our house in 10 years, so the savings over the next 5 years after that would be even less than the 17K. So what about 30K after taxes in 10 years?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on July 15, 2014, 11:20:11 PM
a lot of folks have gambled with ARMS and lost.

these folks that 'lost', given the same predicament, how would a 30 yr mortgage save them?  As discussed above, lots of creative scenarios to get out of any bad situations.  Unless you lose your job, get divorced, etc. all in the same year, I still don't see how $30-50k is worth my 'peace of mind'.  In fact, I would be tossing and turning nightly thinking about the money I could've saved. 

So if you were to refi today, what mortgage would you do?  If your goal is to pay off your principal, and have the confidence to, wouldn't the lowest interest payment be the wisest?  The amount of interest paid on a 5/1 ARM is even lower than a 15 yr conv after the 5 year mark. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on July 15, 2014, 11:36:41 PM
a lot of folks have gambled with ARMS and lost.

these folks that 'lost', given the same predicament, how would a 30 yr mortgage save them?  As discussed above, lots of creative scenarios to get out of any bad situations.  Unless you lose your job, get divorced, etc. all in the same year, I still don't see how $30-50k is worth my 'peace of mind'.  In fact, I would be tossing and turning nightly thinking about the money I could've saved. 

So if you were to refi today, what mortgage would you do?  If your goal is to pay off your principal, and have the confidence to, wouldn't the lowest interest payment be the wisest?  The amount of interest paid on a 5/1 ARM is even lower than a 15 yr conv after the 5 year mark. 

ive thought about refinancing into a ARM.  while i do have the confidence that the mortgage will be paid off in 8.5 more years, that is just a plan. things could change that could derail my plan, if my company gets bought out, which is always possible, ill likely have a tough time replacing my comp package in OC, etc.  like i said, its likely not the best financial move, but like i also said, im not going to sweat 17K over 5 years and 30K over 10 years.  for me, i dont always make the best financial decision, but im completely ok with that. i make whatever financial decision im the most comfortable with, even it costs me a little more.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on July 16, 2014, 07:27:42 AM
Is there really a right or wrong answer here?  We all make financial decisions based on our personal situations. This is no different.
yeah, def no right or wrong. but i think PS9 was just trying to find any scenarios under which a 30 year fixed could make sense.

Agreed.  There is no right or wrong in making the decision.  I just don't like the narrative that if you take out a 30 year fixed rate loan, you are a financial dummy.

BTW:  Wholesale prices went up 0.4% this month and is up 2% Year-over-year.  This is a good thing as it indicates raising wages and a better economy.  It also indicates that rate could be going up. 

Yellen testified yesterday that the Fed is already looking to ease up on the gas pedal and may start raising rates if the economy continues.

Quote
While continuing to stress that "a high degree of monetary policy accommodation remains appropriate," Ms. Yellen's acknowledgment that rates could rise sooner than planned marks a notable new hedge. She made a similar comment at a news conference in June, but without pointing out that the unemployment rate and other job-market measures were improving more quickly than officials expected.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/feds-yellen-u-s-economy-continues-to-improve-but-recovery-not-yet-complete-1405432838
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: bones on July 16, 2014, 07:52:33 AM
[quasdf
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on July 16, 2014, 08:05:44 AM
My first place was a 30 year mortgage.  Paid points too.  My first refi was into another 30 year, this was what, maybe 2 years after the 1st mortgage.  I believe I paid fees.  I'm in the dummy club as well.  The 5/1 ARM was never offered, the only person I can think of that tried to steer me away from the 30 was my uncle.  Should've taken his advice.  But he lost his house in the downturn so we ignored him.  People keep saying the interest is deductible, but why would you spend $4 to save $1?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on July 16, 2014, 08:09:51 AM
My first place was a 30 year mortgage.  Paid points too.  My first refi was into another 30 year, this was what, maybe 2 years after the 1st mortgage.  I believe I paid fees.  I'm in the dummy club as well.  The 5/1 ARM was never offered, the only person I can think of that tried to steer me away from the 30 was my uncle.  Should've taken his advice.  But he lost his house in the downturn so we ignored him.  People keep saying the interest is deductible, but why would you spend $4 to save $1?

I can't speak to your particular situation but I am pretty certain that rates are going up in the next few years so there is no reason to believe that you can refinance in a few years at better rates.   Also, with the prices as high as they are, it makes the move-up strategy more and more difficult.  So, a lot of people are just buying the most house they can and staying there for awhile.

ARM products can be good for certain situations but I would say that it's not for most people.

As for the tax deduction...I don't think anyone gets a 30 year fixed because of the tax deductions.  It's just an ancillary consideration.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on July 16, 2014, 08:34:33 AM
Bottom line: There is a real price for peace of mind. Some people will sleep very well at night with a 4.x rate 30 fixed. Could they do better financially with another product? It's possible. Will that borrower be comfortable chasing lowest rate/cost/plan/adjustment terms/caps/margins/payments? Not always.

In the past when a borrower said "I only want a 30 fixed" lenders could work.under those restrictions. Today we are compelled to present all options (a good thing IMHO) and in many cases a fully informed borrower will end up with a 30 fixed rate. Is that their best choice? Yes. It fits their unique and personal needs, which is all that matters.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on July 16, 2014, 08:38:03 AM
My first place was a 30 year mortgage.  Paid points too.  My first refi was into another 30 year, this was what, maybe 2 years after the 1st mortgage.  I believe I paid fees.  I'm in the dummy club as well.  The 5/1 ARM was never offered, the only person I can think of that tried to steer me away from the 30 was my uncle.  Should've taken his advice.  But he lost his house in the downturn so we ignored him.  People keep saying the interest is deductible, but why would you spend $4 to save $1?
So the question is... why did you go 30 year to being with? There's your 10th man.

@qwerty: Not sweating $17k over 5 years is 1%er speak. For me that's an extra $17k in my 401k which will translate to much more when I'm playing shuffleboard in Laguna Woods.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on July 16, 2014, 08:40:23 AM
My first place was a 30 year mortgage.  Paid points too.  My first refi was into another 30 year, this was what, maybe 2 years after the 1st mortgage.  I believe I paid fees.  I'm in the dummy club as well.  The 5/1 ARM was never offered, the only person I can think of that tried to steer me away from the 30 was my uncle.  Should've taken his advice.  But he lost his house in the downturn so we ignored him.  People keep saying the interest is deductible, but why would you spend $4 to save $1?
So the question is... why did you go 30 year to being with? There's your 10th man.

@qwerty: Not sweating $17k over 5 years is 1%er speak. For me that's an extra $17k in my 401k which will translate to much more when I'm playing shuffleboard in Laguna Woods.

I don't think he is saying that $17K is not a good amount of money.  My view of it is that you can get $17K in benefits going with an ARM but if the loan adjusts badly for you, it may cost you a lot more than $17K over the remainder of the loan. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on July 16, 2014, 08:47:44 AM
I don't think he is saying that $17K is not a good amount of money.  My view of it is that you can $17K but if the loan adjusts badly for you, it may cost you a lot more than $17K over the remainder of the loan. 
No... trust me... a guy who doesn't care if an HOA quadruples his penalties or wants to renovate his new home just after 2 years thinks $17k is pocket change.

CPAs only care about managing funds at work... not at home. :)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on July 16, 2014, 09:04:51 AM
My first place was a 30 year mortgage.  Paid points too.  My first refi was into another 30 year, this was what, maybe 2 years after the 1st mortgage.  I believe I paid fees.  I'm in the dummy club as well.  The 5/1 ARM was never offered, the only person I can think of that tried to steer me away from the 30 was my uncle.  Should've taken his advice.  But he lost his house in the downturn so we ignored him.  People keep saying the interest is deductible, but why would you spend $4 to save $1?
So the question is... why did you go 30 year to being with? There's your 10th man.

@qwerty: Not sweating $17k over 5 years is 1%er speak. For me that's an extra $17k in my 401k which will translate to much more when I'm playing shuffleboard in Laguna Woods.

I don't think he is saying that $17K is not a good amount of money.  My view of it is that you can get $17K in benefits going with an ARM but if the loan adjusts badly for you, it may cost you a lot more than $17K over the remainder of the loan. 

Correct. Id like an extra 17k over 5 years, that's a couple of nice vacations, but it's money I'm willing to forego for the peace of mind. Likely not the best financial move but in 8.5 years we will have a, hopefully, have a paid off $1M+ home so that 17-30k hurts a little less. Then I can switch jobs and take a 99%er job :-)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: paperboyNC on July 16, 2014, 09:24:54 AM

I can't speak to your particular situation but I am pretty certain that rates are going up in the next few years so there is no reason to believe that you can refinance in a few years at better rates.   Also, with the prices as high as they are, it makes the move-up strategy more and more difficult.  So, a lot of people are just buying the most house they can and staying there for awhile.

ARM products can be good for certain situations but I would say that it's not for most people.

As for the tax deduction...I don't think anyone gets a 30 year fixed because of the tax deductions.  It's just an ancillary consideration.

The move-up market is mostly caused by family situations. I have several friends in the OC area that moved up to larger homes in the last year - all did it because of an expanding family. You might be surprised how many people live in apartments, rentals or small homes that can afford buying a huge home with 20%+ down payment.

I know that as soon as my wife got pregnant she insisted we move out of our 2 bedroom apartment and into a house. I pointed out that all of our neighbors had kids so obviously it was possible to raise 1 baby in a 2 bedroom apartment and she pointed out that our neighbors probably couldn't afford a nice house like we could or they'd move too. She won and we moved and stopped saving as much.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: IrvineRealtor on July 16, 2014, 09:31:23 AM
"The hand that rocks the cradle is the hand that rules the world." - Wm Wallace
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on July 16, 2014, 09:41:33 AM

I can't speak to your particular situation but I am pretty certain that rates are going up in the next few years so there is no reason to believe that you can refinance in a few years at better rates.   Also, with the prices as high as they are, it makes the move-up strategy more and more difficult.  So, a lot of people are just buying the most house they can and staying there for awhile.

ARM products can be good for certain situations but I would say that it's not for most people.

As for the tax deduction...I don't think anyone gets a 30 year fixed because of the tax deductions.  It's just an ancillary consideration.

The move-up market is mostly caused by family situations. I have several friends in the OC area that moved up to larger homes in the last year - all did it because of an expanding family. You might be surprised how many people live in apartments, rentals or small homes that can afford buying a huge home with 20%+ down payment.

I know that as soon as my wife got pregnant she insisted we move out of our 2 bedroom apartment and into a house. I pointed out that all of our neighbors had kids so obviously it was possible to raise 1 baby in a 2 bedroom apartment and she pointed out that our neighbors probably couldn't afford a nice house like we could or they'd move too. She won and we moved and stopped saving as much.

Agreed.  That's why we moved.  But because of the bubble, the difficulty in getting loans, and jump in prices in the past year or so, most buyers these days cannot do the traditional move-up from a 2 bedroom condo to a 3 bedroom house, and then to a 4 bedroom house.   Most buyers are jumping from renting to the 4 bedroom because they were either priced out during the bubble or were waiting/saving for the right moment.   

I think the move-up model was still viable about 2 years ago when prices were stagnant/low and rates were insanely low.  But now, prices are high and the rates are not as low, people are just biting the bullet to buy the biggest house they can.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: paperboyNC on July 16, 2014, 11:11:25 AM
Agreed.  That's why we moved.  But because of the bubble, the difficulty in getting loans, and jump in prices in the past year or so, most buyers these days cannot do the traditional move-up from a 2 bedroom condo to a 3 bedroom house, and then to a 4 bedroom house.   Most buyers are jumping from renting to the 4 bedroom because they were either priced out during the bubble or were waiting/saving for the right moment.   

I think the move-up model was still viable about 2 years ago when prices were stagnant/low and rates were insanely low.  But now, prices are high and the rates are not as low, people are just biting the bullet to buy the biggest house they can.

I have a friend that is buying at Orchard Hills and even though both the husband and wife work they are buying a house they qualify for with only one income (I did the same) with plans to move up in 4-5 years. I'm sure some people are doing what you say, but I highly doubt they are the majority of Irvine buyers. If Irvine buyers were stretched you'd see a lot more FHA loans IMO.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: 0$ on July 16, 2014, 11:23:55 AM
 :P
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on July 16, 2014, 02:23:30 PM
ps9 is going to refi for more than 30 years.

2044:

Bank: Uh... your loan balance is only $73, why do you want to refi?
ps9: Because it will save me $20 over the refi I just did 2 months ago.


:)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on July 16, 2014, 02:29:13 PM
Agreed.  That's why we moved.  But because of the bubble, the difficulty in getting loans, and jump in prices in the past year or so, most buyers these days cannot do the traditional move-up from a 2 bedroom condo to a 3 bedroom house, and then to a 4 bedroom house.   Most buyers are jumping from renting to the 4 bedroom because they were either priced out during the bubble or were waiting/saving for the right moment.   

I think the move-up model was still viable about 2 years ago when prices were stagnant/low and rates were insanely low.  But now, prices are high and the rates are not as low, people are just biting the bullet to buy the biggest house they can.

I have a friend that is buying at Orchard Hills and even though both the husband and wife work they are buying a house they qualify for with only one income (I did the same) with plans to move up in 4-5 years. I'm sure some people are doing what you say, but I highly doubt they are the majority of Irvine buyers. If Irvine buyers were stretched you'd see a lot more FHA loans IMO.

The fact that your friend can qualify for a house in Irvine with just one income makes him (and you) very rare.   FHA has significant limits and forced mortgage insurance that makes payments higher.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: bones on July 16, 2014, 02:43:33 PM
[asdfasdf
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on July 16, 2014, 02:58:28 PM
Agreed.  That's why we moved.  But because of the bubble, the difficulty in getting loans, and jump in prices in the past year or so, most buyers these days cannot do the traditional move-up from a 2 bedroom condo to a 3 bedroom house, and then to a 4 bedroom house.   Most buyers are jumping from renting to the 4 bedroom because they were either priced out during the bubble or were waiting/saving for the right moment.   

I think the move-up model was still viable about 2 years ago when prices were stagnant/low and rates were insanely low.  But now, prices are high and the rates are not as low, people are just biting the bullet to buy the biggest house they can.

I have a friend that is buying at Orchard Hills and even though both the husband and wife work they are buying a house they qualify for with only one income (I did the same) with plans to move up in 4-5 years. I'm sure some people are doing what you say, but I highly doubt they are the majority of Irvine buyers. If Irvine buyers were stretched you'd see a lot more FHA loans IMO.

The fact that your friend can qualify for a house in Irvine with just one income makes him (and you) very rare.   FHA has significant limits and forced mortgage insurance that makes payments higher.

Is it though?  There are a ton of stay at home moms in irvine living in brand new construction or expensive resale.

I would say that the major of those are FCB who don't employ the  mortgage industry anyways. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: bones on July 16, 2014, 03:12:53 PM
[qasdf
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: 0$ on July 16, 2014, 03:25:00 PM
 ::)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: bones on July 16, 2014, 03:26:52 PM
[quoteasdf
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: paperboyNC on July 16, 2014, 03:58:35 PM
Is it though?  There are a ton of stay at home moms in irvine living in brand new construction or expensive resale.

I would say that the major of those are FCB who don't employ the  mortgage industry anyways.

My wife worked when we bought our house but is a stay at home now and is friends with a lot of other stay at home moms. None of them are married to FCBs. Take that for what it's worth.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on July 18, 2014, 09:58:25 AM
appraiser's coming in a hour, time to cram de-clutter everything into the closet!
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on July 18, 2014, 12:07:07 PM
Now I can relax, appraisal done, kept the chit chat to a minimum, offered water, let him keep his shoes on, gave him the addresses of three houses that closed sales recently in my same area, should be a slam dunk.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: paperboyNC on July 18, 2014, 12:13:20 PM
Now I can relax, appraisal done, kept the chit chat to a minimum, offered water, let him keep his shoes on, gave him the addresses of three houses that closed sales recently in my same area, should be a slam dunk.

Gotta keep that 55% LTV! I'm getting my appraisal tomorrow. Wish me luck.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on July 18, 2014, 12:30:12 PM
Did you point out your LED lights?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on July 18, 2014, 03:07:14 PM
Gotta treat it like an open house, you never know what type of appraiser will show up.  And they take pics, lots of them.  Mostly of smoke and carbon monoxide alarms, and the separate rooms.  A newer built would save them some time, as it's just one big picture :)

I think I got lucky.  Dude was professional, unlike my last run in with these folks.  At least he didn't look like he just rolled out of bed.  His shoes are clean, that's a good sign.  Had an electronic measure instead of the old school tape.  He asked about HOA, how many bed/baths.  Since we had so many neighbors close escrow recently, pointed him in the right direction for comps.  Made sure to mention those homes are smaller sq footage, even the one with the same floorplan:  it counted the 3rd garage space as living space in the listing, when I know you cannot.  That means when I list, I can 'bump' up my house size.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: bones on July 18, 2014, 03:11:19 PM
It's hard to take you seriously with that avatar.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on July 18, 2014, 03:12:44 PM
WTTCMA!
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on July 21, 2014, 07:34:51 AM
Now I can relax, appraisal done, kept the chit chat to a minimum, offered water, let him keep his shoes on, gave him the addresses of three houses that closed sales recently in my same area, should be a slam dunk.

Gotta keep that 55% LTV! I'm getting my appraisal tomorrow. Wish me luck.

How did your appraisal go?  So they work on Saturdays?  Are you using the same Zillow lender? 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: paperboyNC on July 21, 2014, 08:18:17 AM
Now I can relax, appraisal done, kept the chit chat to a minimum, offered water, let him keep his shoes on, gave him the addresses of three houses that closed sales recently in my same area, should be a slam dunk.

Gotta keep that 55% LTV! I'm getting my appraisal tomorrow. Wish me luck.

How did your appraisal go?  So they work on Saturdays?  Are you using the same Zillow lender?

Yes the guy came out on Saturday. I'm using a different lender. The appraiser was surprised I had comps printed out for him. He asked "Where did you get these from?" (it said redfin on the printouts) "Are you a realtor?" He also asked what value I needed for my re-fi (I need less than the comps). My lender said I'll still qualify with 65% LTV so I'm not too worried. He did bring up the fact that I paid much less for it. I'm like.. doh.. housing prices have gone up 30%.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on July 22, 2014, 02:36:33 PM
Got the appraisal back  ;D

@paperboy

You got the 5/1 product as well?  Here's to another 5 years!
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: paperboyNC on July 22, 2014, 03:11:00 PM
Got the appraisal back  ;D

@paperboy

You got the 5/1 product as well?  Here's to another 5 years!

Congratulations ps9! Yes I am getting that as well. I hope to get mine back today or tomorrow and will give you cheers then :)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on July 22, 2014, 05:03:00 PM
You notice refi appraisals are always lower than say a purchase appraisal?  Funny how things work out in the end :)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on July 23, 2014, 12:33:51 PM
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/Ps99472/59E0E86B-C326-4713-841B-0CD25C072686_zpsapuvkkhf.png)

This lender's rates are low today, if anyone's interested.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: paperboyNC on July 23, 2014, 01:49:22 PM
You notice refi appraisals are always lower than say a purchase appraisal?  Funny how things work out in the end :)

Got my appraisal back. It was significantly higher than I expected and way higher than I needed.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on July 23, 2014, 02:30:45 PM
Good to hear! 

Smoothest refi for me so far.  Hopefully we close on time.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: paperboyNC on July 23, 2014, 02:37:25 PM
Good to hear! 

Smoothest refi for me so far.  Hopefully we close on time.

Awesome. One reason I was in a hurry to refi is that the recent closings had been favorable while future transactions are looking dicey (nothing is selling around me with over 90 days on the market and multiple price reductions).
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on July 23, 2014, 02:42:05 PM
My appraiser used the comps I gave him, the top 3 most weighted one too.  They were pretty expensive, charged almost $600 for the appraisal (lender will credit at closing).
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: paperboyNC on July 23, 2014, 02:57:16 PM
My appraiser used the comps I gave him, the top 3 most weighted one too.  They were pretty expensive, charged almost $600 for the appraisal (lender will credit at closing).

Mine was $425. We used the comps I provided as well plus included two more similar comps of his own.

My closing is not 100% fee-free so I probably will be paying for the appraisal out of pocket. My total lender credit is around $2,000.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: 0$ on July 23, 2014, 03:05:32 PM
 :P
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: 0$ on July 23, 2014, 05:18:08 PM

 :D
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on July 23, 2014, 06:03:55 PM
Called RWMI.

Not competitive at all (we're ~70% LTV). Quoted 3.5% on a 5/1 ARM plus what sounds like a ton of closing costs. Same loan through UBOC (private lending arm) is 3.25% no cost.

Just got the deets... 3.625% no cost 5/1. $2k for 3.5%, $3500 for 3.375%. Guesstimating 73% LTV.

It's a dogshit loan. I guess you need 65%+ LTV for RWMI to be competitive.

3.25% with UBOC for a 5/1 with no cost looks damn good by comparison.
Funk that, you should be in the 2s with a 5/1 ARM loan.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on July 23, 2014, 08:31:11 PM
Here's what I got for you at 70%LTV (assuming the inputs below are similar to your own):

(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/Ps99472/openskyrefi_zps7e50f415.jpg)
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/Ps99472/openskyrefi1_zps37a8185f.jpg)
So both lenders can close at 2.875% with more than enough credit to cover all fees, and leftover for your escrow account.  You usually need about ~$2500 in lender credit to cover all fees at closing, so you'll come out ahead if you go this route.  Annie Mac offers ~$6100 in credit and Sebonic at ~$5100.


But let's compare at 55%LTV (holding all other variables the same):

(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/Ps99472/openskyrefi2_zpsc4fedf75.jpg)
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/Ps99472/openskyrefi3_zps32c3e58e.jpg)
Smarter and Annie Mac are the best deals.  I would go with the lower rate with less credit.  At ~$3200, that's still more than enough to close. 

I would check again when markets open tomorrow.  Did you submit request thru Zillow?  Or did you call Residential Mortgage direct?  My deal at 2.5% 5/1 ARM 55%LTV is thru a Zillow request.  I saw them post a 2.625% with about $4000 in credit.  I put in a inquiry thru Zillow to see if they can do 2.5% with enough credit to cover all fees at closing.  They responded, haggled thru email a little back and forth, and finally agreed upon $71 in out of pocket fees for me at closing for the 2.5% rate. 

That's why I thought it would be a good deal today, since they posted the same 2.625% rate with the same credit that caught my attention a few weeks ago, I'm thinking the 2.5% would be attainable again. 

Good luck, I'll buy you a McRib if you dump your interest bleeding 30 year and refi into a 5/1 :)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on July 23, 2014, 08:41:36 PM
I'll give u $17k to keep your 30 year :-)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: 0$ on July 23, 2014, 08:56:57 PM
8)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on July 23, 2014, 09:01:08 PM
I'm paying a good amount of extra principal every month, so the balance at the end of 5 years would be pretty nominal with the right interest rate at the same payment. This group has softened my thinking a bit...

But you cannot beat the interest rate, lower is always better no matter how you spin it.  If you paid extra principal with a 5/1 ARM you'll be really ahead.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on July 23, 2014, 09:04:30 PM
That's the biggest pro for me, reducing my principal faster and paying less interest.

I did the math with a 5/1 vs a 7/1 vs a 30 year and at the time, the 7/1 was the best match for me since the interest rate against the 5/1 was not that much difference (but huge compared to the 30).
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: 0$ on July 23, 2014, 09:29:05 PM
:P
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: bones on July 23, 2014, 09:37:05 PM
[quoasdf
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on July 23, 2014, 09:47:36 PM
I'm paying a good amount of extra principal every month, so the balance at the end of 5 years would be pretty nominal with the right interest rate at the same payment. This group has softened my thinking a bit...

But you cannot beat the interest rate, lower is always better no matter how you spin it.  If you paid extra principal with a 5/1 ARM you'll be really ahead.

Yes, that's what I'm trying to say. And apparently failing.

Enlighten us please?

Here's what I'm trying to say: 

Let's say we have a $800,000 mortgage, 5/1 at 2.5% and a 30yr at 4.0%, both with extra $500 extra principal payment each month.  What's the data at the 5 yr endpoint?

30 yr:

(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/Ps99472/openskyrefi6_zps46783ca5.jpg)
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/Ps99472/openskyrefi7_zps7a4f93ba.jpg)

5/1:

(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/Ps99472/openskyrefi6_zps46783ca5.jpg)
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/Ps99472/openskyrefi8_zpsa3ee8224.jpg)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: 0$ on July 23, 2014, 09:56:15 PM
 :)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on July 23, 2014, 10:11:11 PM
And then there is one.....
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on July 23, 2014, 10:36:56 PM
damn, i feel like i have no choice but to refi now. but for 17K (after tax benefit) after five years just doesnt seem worth it. hmmm. ill have to reconsider tomorrow.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Homer_Simpson on July 23, 2014, 11:45:07 PM
Here's what I got for you at 70%LTV (assuming the inputs below are similar to your own):

(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/Ps99472/openskyrefi_zps7e50f415.jpg)
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/Ps99472/openskyrefi1_zps37a8185f.jpg)
So both lenders can close at 2.875% with more than enough credit to cover all fees, and leftover for your escrow account.  You usually need about ~$2500 in lender credit to cover all fees at closing, so you'll come out ahead if you go this route.  Annie Mac offers ~$6100 in credit and Sebonic at ~$5100.


But let's compare at 55%LTV (holding all other variables the same):

(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/Ps99472/openskyrefi2_zpsc4fedf75.jpg)
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/Ps99472/openskyrefi3_zps32c3e58e.jpg)
Smarter and Annie Mac are the best deals.  I would go with the lower rate with less credit.  At ~$3200, that's still more than enough to close. 

I would check again when markets open tomorrow.  Did you submit request thru Zillow?  Or did you call Residential Mortgage direct?  My deal at 2.5% 5/1 ARM 55%LTV is thru a Zillow request.  I saw them post a 2.625% with about $4000 in credit.  I put in a inquiry thru Zillow to see if they can do 2.5% with enough credit to cover all fees at closing.  They responded, haggled thru email a little back and forth, and finally agreed upon $71 in out of pocket fees for me at closing for the 2.5% rate. 

That's why I thought it would be a good deal today, since they posted the same 2.625% rate with the same credit that caught my attention a few weeks ago, I'm thinking the 2.5% would be attainable again. 

Good luck, I'll buy you a McRib if you dump your interest bleeding 30 year and refi into a 5/1 :)

Went with sebonic today.. Enough credits to cover all cost and some to prepay my HOA.  2.5% 5/1 ARM. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on July 24, 2014, 07:42:30 AM
Went with sebonic today.. Enough credits to cover all cost and some to prepay my HOA.  2.5% 5/1 ARM. 
Lies.

We all know you only do cash.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on July 24, 2014, 08:12:43 AM
damn, i feel like i have no choice but to refi now. but for 17K (after tax benefit) after five years just doesnt seem worth it. hmmm. ill have to reconsider tomorrow.

Wouldn't that tax benefit apply to all interests regardless of 30yr or 5/1 ARM?  The comparison I did above shows you'll save almost $60,000 in interest payments over 5 years by going with the 5/1.  So ~$1000/month, you can pay your HOA fines with that :)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on July 24, 2014, 08:22:41 AM
You have to use qwerchete's numbers for him to see the LEDs.

We somewhat know his ballpark purchase price and if he's going to pay off his loan in 10 years, he probably put more than 20% down.

ps9... can you do the breakdown on $500k loan 5/1 vs 30, no extra payments and see what the interest savings are?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on July 24, 2014, 08:30:14 AM
Called RWMI.

Not competitive at all (we're ~70% LTV). Quoted 3.5% on a 5/1 ARM plus what sounds like a ton of closing costs. Same loan through UBOC (private lending arm) is 3.25% no cost.

Just emailed my contact at RWMI, at 70%LTV no cash out, the rate is still 2.5% 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on July 24, 2014, 08:53:34 AM
damn, i feel like i have no choice but to refi now. but for 17K (after tax benefit) after five years just doesnt seem worth it. hmmm. ill have to reconsider tomorrow.

Wouldn't that tax benefit apply to all interests regardless of 30yr or 5/1 ARM?  The comparison I did above shows you'll save almost $60,000 in interest payments over 5 years by going with the 5/1.  So ~$1000/month, you can pay your HOA fines with that :)

the difference in interest was 60K but then when you deduct that 60K, you would save (or at least i would) about 43% in taxes. so the 60K is really 34,200.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on July 24, 2014, 09:25:18 AM
You have to use qwerchete's numbers for him to see the LEDs.

We somewhat know his ballpark purchase price and if he's going to pay off his loan in 10 years, he probably put more than 20% down.

ps9... can you do the breakdown on $500k loan 5/1 vs 30, no extra payments and see what the interest savings are?

so a 5/1 arm 500K loan at 2.5% vs a 30 year at 3.75% would result in an extra interest of 30,408 through month 60.  the tax benefit from the interest deduction at a combined rate of 43% would be 13,075, so the next cost is 17,333 over 5 years, or about $288/month
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on July 24, 2014, 09:27:52 AM
And what is the remaining principal after Year 5?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on July 24, 2014, 09:30:27 AM
You have to use qwerchete's numbers for him to see the LEDs.

We somewhat know his ballpark purchase price and if he's going to pay off his loan in 10 years, he probably put more than 20% down.

ps9... can you do the breakdown on $500k loan 5/1 vs 30, no extra payments and see what the interest savings are?

every december i send in a large principal payment. this december will be my second large principal payment, then 8 more to go.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on July 24, 2014, 09:30:35 AM
damn, i feel like i have no choice but to refi now. but for 17K (after tax benefit) after five years just doesnt seem worth it. hmmm. ill have to reconsider tomorrow.

Wouldn't that tax benefit apply to all interests regardless of 30yr or 5/1 ARM?  The comparison I did above shows you'll save almost $60,000 in interest payments over 5 years by going with the 5/1.  So ~$1000/month, you can pay your HOA fines with that :)

the difference in interest was 60K but then when you deduct that 60K, you would save (or at least i would) about 43% in taxes. so the 60K is really 34,200.

But that's still $60k in your pocket no? 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on July 24, 2014, 09:34:30 AM
And what is the remaining principal after Year 5?

440K vs 450K
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: 0$ on July 24, 2014, 09:47:36 AM
:P
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on July 24, 2014, 09:48:53 AM
damn, i feel like i have no choice but to refi now. but for 17K (after tax benefit) after five years just doesnt seem worth it. hmmm. ill have to reconsider tomorrow.

Wouldn't that tax benefit apply to all interests regardless of 30yr or 5/1 ARM?  The comparison I did above shows you'll save almost $60,000 in interest payments over 5 years by going with the 5/1.  So ~$1000/month, you can pay your HOA fines with that :)

the difference in interest was 60K but then when you deduct that 60K, you would save (or at least i would) about 43% in taxes. so the 60K is really 34,200.

But that's still $60k in your pocket no? 

so using that scenario, i would pay 60K out my pocket for interest over 5 years. but since i get to offset income taxes that i would have otherwise paid to the tune of 25,800, my net cash out the door is 34,200. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on July 24, 2014, 10:19:56 AM
i may have been converted. i PMd PS9 for his mortgage contact as well. at 2.5% and if it covers closing costs it seems like a good move, i feel like i have been cornered by a pack of wolves and had no choice :-)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Homer_Simpson on July 24, 2014, 10:28:48 AM
Qwerty- It's a good move if you don't plan on staying for the long haul at your current place.  If you do, you can always refi later again.. :)  You're saving within that time frame though..

#Convertthemexican
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on July 24, 2014, 10:34:55 AM
Qwerty- It's a good move if you don't plan on staying for the long haul at your current place.  If you do, you can always refi later again.. :)  You're saving within that time frame though..

#Convertthemexican

yeah ill refi as necessary to pay it off in the original 10 year window as planned, worst case scenario we will just pay off the house at the end of year 5 if everything goes sideways. by then we would be at almost year 7 from the original purchase date anyway. thanks everyone.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on July 24, 2014, 11:10:41 AM
Since you were already planning on a 10-year window... you have less to worry about risk wise so a 30-year lock doesn't make sense.

Pay as little interest as possible... esp if you don't plan to finance over the long haul.

#AnotherOneBitesTheARM
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: 0$ on July 24, 2014, 11:18:37 AM
 ::)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on July 24, 2014, 11:43:30 AM
i feel like i have been cornered by a pack of wolves and had no choice :-)
(http://i60.tinypic.com/2zjampe.jpg)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: 0$ on July 24, 2014, 12:02:56 PM
 :)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on July 24, 2014, 12:22:22 PM
Please PM me that lender contact info...since everyone is in refi mode I might as well refi too.   >:D
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on July 24, 2014, 01:32:22 PM
Pm sent
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on July 24, 2014, 01:35:42 PM
Rate should be around 2.5-2.625 with enough credit to close with close to no fees.  Good luck
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: 0$ on July 24, 2014, 01:54:42 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: bones on July 24, 2014, 02:02:22 PM
Bff
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on July 24, 2014, 02:42:59 PM
That's not a laundry chute... that's the OS pole.

#qwermemebait
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on July 24, 2014, 08:42:22 PM
You have to use qwerchete's numbers for him to see the LEDs.

We somewhat know his ballpark purchase price and if he's going to pay off his loan in 10 years, he probably put more than 20% down.

ps9... can you do the breakdown on $500k loan 5/1 vs 30, no extra payments and see what the interest savings are?

so a 5/1 arm 500K loan at 2.5% vs a 30 year at 3.75% would result in an extra interest of 30,408 through month 60.  the tax benefit from the interest deduction at a combined rate of 43% would be 13,075, so the next cost is 17,333 over 5 years, or about $288/month

I picked a rate for 4.0% which would correlate better today with the 2.5% no fees. 

30 yr

(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/Ps99472/openskyrefi6_zps46783ca5.jpg)
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/Ps99472/iho3_zpsdd340942.jpg)


5/1

(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/Ps99472/openskyrefi6_zps46783ca5.jpg)
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/Ps99472/iho2_zpsfed601b9.jpg)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on July 24, 2014, 09:33:50 PM
uploaded the documents necessary to lock in the afternoon.  not sure if the rates moved, but i got quoted 2.75% with no closing costs. so i told her ill just wait for the 2.5% with no closing costs. she will monitor it and lock for me when it hits 2.5%.

thanks everyone.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: 0$ on July 25, 2014, 12:59:42 PM
 :)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Homer_Simpson on July 25, 2014, 01:15:07 PM
Refi party at the NorthPark bball courts!!
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on July 25, 2014, 01:17:32 PM
So after sleeping on this and pencil-fucking it a bit, it's an interesting mixed bag.

Adjusted for tax savings on a monthly basis, the 5/1 isn't a ton cheaper than we're paying now -- just a couple hundred bucks or so.

But after 5 years, making the same payment as we do today (which already has additional principal reduction), our mortgage balance would be ~$60k lower with the 5/1 ARM vs our 4% 30 year fixed. This is offset by ~$4500 higher tax liability over the same term.


Doesn't the presume the same interest in 5 years?  Don't you need to factor in some rise in the rate in 5 years?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on July 25, 2014, 01:30:15 PM
So after sleeping on this and pencil-fucking it a bit, it's an interesting mixed bag.

Adjusted for tax savings on a monthly basis, the 5/1 isn't a ton cheaper than we're paying now -- just a couple hundred bucks or so.

But after 5 years, making the same payment as we do today (which already has additional principal reduction), our mortgage balance would be ~$60k lower with the 5/1 ARM vs our 4% 30 year fixed. This is offset by ~$4500 higher tax liability over the same term.


Doesn't the presume the same interest in 5 years?  Don't you need to factor in some rise in the rate in 5 years?
If the rate adjusted today on an ARM loan, the rate would be 2.875%.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on July 25, 2014, 01:39:43 PM
most arms use the 1 year libor as the base rate and add 2.0 to 2.5% to the rate.

the libor this week is .55%

http://www.bankrate.com/rates/interest-rates/1-year-libor.aspx
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on July 25, 2014, 01:48:23 PM
most arms use the 1 year libor as the base rate and add 2.0 to 2.5% to the rate.

the libor this week is .55%

http://www.bankrate.com/rates/interest-rates/1-year-libor.aspx
All the loans I've done and seen do 1-year LIBOR plus 2.25% except for one.  I have an old Bank of America loan that I got when I worked for them where the loan has a 2% margin (employee discount) to LIBOR.  The bank takes the 1-year LIBOR rate approx. 45 days prior to the anniversary date and rounds up to the next 1/8% when the rate is re-set and the loan is re-amortized. 

I like to use the following site to track where LIBOR rates are at (you can also pull up a 3-year chart too):  http://www.erate.com/Libor.htm
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: 0$ on July 26, 2014, 09:37:34 AM
 :-*
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: 0$ on August 04, 2014, 10:22:08 AM
 :P
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Homer_Simpson on August 04, 2014, 10:28:32 AM
Mine should be set to fund next week :)  woohoo..

congrats bud
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on August 04, 2014, 12:58:59 PM
I should be closing this week, pretty fast considering it was a 45 day lock.

Nice to see you back from sabbatical OS. 

Refi closing party at Rita's Ice!
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on August 04, 2014, 12:59:45 PM
So how much are you guys saving a month compared to your previous loans?  I'm waiting for 2.5% with no fees before I pull the trigger (since I'm at 2.75% as we speak). 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Homer_Simpson on August 04, 2014, 01:06:15 PM
I should be closing this week, pretty fast considering it was a 45 day lock.

Nice to see you back from sabbatical OS. 

Refi closing party at Rita's Ice!

Was Rita's Ice any good?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Homer_Simpson on August 04, 2014, 01:07:06 PM
So how much are you guys saving a month compared to your previous loans?  I'm waiting for 2.5% with no fees before I pull the trigger (since I'm at 2.75% as we speak).

Saved about $200 and extended my term another 5 years  ;D
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on August 04, 2014, 01:15:13 PM
I should be closing this week, pretty fast considering it was a 45 day lock.

Nice to see you back from sabbatical OS. 

Refi closing party at Rita's Ice!

Was Rita's Ice any good?

i went to ritas ice on friday for the first time. sampled their custard, nothing special. i did try some italian ice, the starburst strawberry and that was very good.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on August 04, 2014, 01:18:55 PM
ive been holding out for 2.5% but just emailed the loan person that i would do 2.75% with no closing costs. it would save me 300 net per month.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: bones on August 04, 2014, 01:23:19 PM
dghgdh
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: 0$ on August 04, 2014, 01:27:31 PM
 :)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on August 04, 2014, 01:29:17 PM
I should be closing this week, pretty fast considering it was a 45 day lock.

Nice to see you back from sabbatical OS. 

Refi closing party at Rita's Ice!

Was Rita's Ice any good?

i went to ritas ice on friday for the first time. sampled their custard, nothing special. i did try some italian ice, the starburst strawberry and that was very good.
The cherry that I got last week was better.  I dropped by offer my open house on Saturday and got the strawberry ice too since they didn't have the cherry...not bad but I liked the cherry better.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on August 04, 2014, 01:29:54 PM
For those refi-ing from one arm loan into another - how many years were left on your original loan term?
About 28 years left on my 5/5 ARM.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on August 04, 2014, 02:17:37 PM
Went to Rita's Ice this weekend (but in Laguna Hills).

Eh... overpriced and not as good on variety as Confetti's.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on August 04, 2014, 02:31:16 PM
I'm refi'ing from 5/1 ARM to 5/1 ARM.  Current ARM is a little over 1 year, saving about $150/month in P/I payment with this refi.  Also paying principal down at closing, slowly trying to reach a mortgage where I can solo qualify.

Thumbs down on Rita's Ice, no places to sit (notice the trend?) and don't like eating in the dark outside.  We rather get Yogurtland.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: jmoney74 on August 04, 2014, 02:51:58 PM
I'm refi'ing from 5/1 ARM to 5/1 ARM.  Current ARM is a little over 1 year, saving about $150/month in P/I payment with this refi.  Also paying principal down at closing, slowly trying to reach a mortgage where I can solo qualify.

Thumbs down on Rita's Ice, no places to sit (notice the trend?) and don't like eating in the dark outside.  We rather get Yogurtland.

The Ice cream and ice is good though.  Yes.. they need to put up some lights for outside seating.  Not sure how they will do on during non summer days?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on August 04, 2014, 05:16:35 PM
I think Strickland's custard ice cream is better (made in the store!).

@ps9:

Why not invest that money instead of paying down the principal?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on August 04, 2014, 05:35:22 PM
Principal preservation plus guaranteed 2.5% return.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on August 04, 2014, 05:38:17 PM
When I was down 20k plus on that HLF trade a couple weeks ago, one of the things I thought about was that I could have paid down the mortgage. Luckily it bounced back the next day and then some.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on August 04, 2014, 06:48:08 PM
When I was down 20k plus on that HLF trade a couple weeks ago, one of the things I thought about was that I could have paid down the mortgage. Luckily it bounced back the next day and then some.
Then it tanked again because their earnings weren't up to par.  That's one volatile stock.  You might as well trade the VIX.  ;)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on August 04, 2014, 07:44:11 PM
I think Strickland's custard ice cream is better (made in the store!).

@ps9:

Why not invest that money instead of paying down the principal?

Confetti in CM is still our go to place for custard and Italian ice.  Jolli rancher, big stick, cactus cooler flavors are my childhood memories.  Rita's ice menu selection is kinda confusing, I like some preselected choices so the average joe don't make a bad decision choice, like pairing coffee with tropical.

I don't have the stomach for the stock roller coaster, since we didn't buy in OH, wanted to get some better return on cash money that's better than my 0.8% savings rate.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on August 04, 2014, 08:16:47 PM
When I was down 20k plus on that HLF trade a couple weeks ago, one of the things I thought about was that I could have paid down the mortgage. Luckily it bounced back the next day and then some.
Then it tanked again because their earnings weren't up to par.  That's one volatile stock.  You might as well trade the VIX.  ;)

Yeah man, I got out the day of the ackman recovery after I erased my losses. Then I told myself to stay on the sidelines till after earnings, which I did. Thank goodness. Now is a really good entry point for long term holding if you believe the FTC investigation won't result in shutting the company down, which I don't think it will. But on the off chance the FTC hits them hard that thing is going to single digits in a day. A 40 dollar drop is too much for me to stomach
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: 0$ on August 04, 2014, 08:46:20 PM
 :)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on August 05, 2014, 08:00:44 PM
Either I got a dumb notary or broker.  Notary claimed can't print docs due to not being given password.  Broker stated otherwise.  Loan signing delayed till tomorrow.

Looking over the HUD, I'm up about $20 after closing and all refunds for padding and extra interest are given back.  Gonna spend that on jalapeño burgers and Rita's ice (gonna give them one more chance).
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: 0$ on August 05, 2014, 08:02:14 PM
 :)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on August 06, 2014, 09:09:28 PM
found these guys tonite. they have a three year arm at 2.29% with no point/fees and $295 for closing costs. you need to have your payment automatically deducted from your checking account. the rate relock is a nice feature.

https://thirdfederal.mortgagewebcenter.com/

from their site:



Smart Rate Adjustable Mortgage: a minimal fee in Closing Costs (depending on the state where the property is located).

Wouldn't it be great if you could purchase or refinance your home at today's record low rates and not worry about closing costs? Well, with our Smart Rate Adjustable Mortgage, you can because you only pay a minimal fee in closing costs (depending on the state where the property is located). All other closing costs are paid by Third Federal, saving you thousands of dollars up front. And the interest rate is typically lower than what other lenders charge for their full closing cost loans.

The 3/1 Smart Rate Mortgage offers an interest rate lower than that of a fixed rate loan, usually more than 1½% lower. This lower rate can save you thousands over the first five years. After that, the interest rate adjusts to the Prime Rate once a year. You are not charged a margin or markup.

The 3/1 Smart Rate Mortgage offers you the following benefits:

Low Closing Cost Options - With the Smart Rate Mortgage you have the option to pay only a minimal fee in closing costs (depending on the state where the property is located). All other closing costs will be paid by Third Federal, saving you thousands of dollars up front. The interest rate on our Low Cost Smart Rate Mortgage is usually lower than what other lenders charge for their full closing cost loans.

Rate Relock - Our Rate Relock gives you control to relock your rate for five more years anytime, during the entire life of your loan. You can relock your rate for another five years to the current five year rate as often as you like, anytime you like for just $295 - 595 (depending on the state where the property is located), saving you thousands of dollars compared to the cost of refinancing. And no mortgage application or home appraisal is required. Rate Relock even allows you to relock your rate every five years so that you're never without a five-year fixed rate commitment. With Rate Relock, you'll never have to refinance again!

No PMI with 85% Loan to Value (LTV) - For those with excellent credit history we offer the ability to borrow up to 85% of your home's value without paying expensive mortgage insurance premiums. In fact there's no rate increase at all. If you are purchasing a new home, you can put 15% down and not pay PMI. If you are refinancing, you could qualify for a loan at 85% loan to value. Most other lenders require 80% LTV to refinance (85% LTV only available in OH, FL and KY).

Jumbo Loans at Discounted Rates - There are no rate increases on Jumbo Smart Rate Mortgages up to $1,000,000; in fact there is a discount. Other lenders typically add as much as 1% to your interest rate for loans over $417,000. Not with the Smart Rate Mortgage - your jumbo loan receives a lower interest rate than our conventional loan.

Indexed to Prime - After the first five years, your interest rate resets annually to the Prime Rate, the rate offered by most banks to only the very best customers. There is no margin or markup on the Prime Rate.

Margin - The margin is zero, no markup is added to your rate.

30, 15 and 10-Year Terms Available - We offer an option of a 30, 15 or 10-year Smart Rate Mortgage. If you would like to pay off your mortgage faster, the 15 or 10-year is a great option for you.

Periodic Rate Cap +/-2% - Your rate cannot increase or decrease by more than 2% in any one year.

Lifetime Rate Cap (Initial Rate +6%) - Your rate can never increase by more than 6% during the entire life of the loan.

No Prepayment Penalty - There is never a prepayment penalty or other incremental charge associated with paying off your loan.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on August 06, 2014, 09:17:06 PM
3/1 ARM looks interesting.  I'm gonna have to look into this.  Wait... Cleveland?  I'm coming home...
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on August 06, 2014, 09:42:29 PM
That's an interesting loan.  I'm still leaning towards a 5/1 ARM because after the ARM period the rate would be 2.875% versus 3.25%.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on August 07, 2014, 09:01:15 AM
I like ARM products, but not those tied to Prime. It's the fastest changing index there is for ARM loans and can be increase by percentage points swiftly. Nice features on the product, but a pass olfor me due to the index.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: 0$ on August 07, 2014, 09:04:09 AM
:P
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: IrvineRealtor on August 07, 2014, 09:15:35 AM
I like ARM products, but not those tied to Prime. It's the fastest changing index there is for ARM loans and can be increase by percentage points swiftly. Nice features on the product, but a pass olfor me due to the index.

+1. Prime for credit cards, LIBOR for ARMs.

I, much like SGIP and OS, am not ready for primetime.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on August 07, 2014, 09:20:26 AM
Agh... IR2 beat me to it.

#NotTimeForPrime
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: 0$ on August 07, 2014, 09:53:31 AM
 :P
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on August 07, 2014, 07:16:03 PM
Closed books on another refi.  Fastest signing ever, was done in about 30 minutes with the notary.  So my next mortgage payment won't be due until October.  Make sure you make a principal payment during this "payment" free period.  You paid the interest already during escrow.  Make sure you send a principal payment to the bank.  So with $20 coming back and the $30 I spent on wiring fees, I paid net $10 for the refi. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on August 07, 2014, 07:50:33 PM
Congrats man.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: bones on August 07, 2014, 08:35:26 PM
Congrats. Where's the celebration meal at?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on August 07, 2014, 08:54:22 PM
Congrats. Where's the celebration meal at?
All That BBQ, where else?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on August 07, 2014, 09:19:55 PM
Thanks, should be funding on Monday, will celebrate then,  probably a Ren/La Sirena combo followed by dessert at Jin Bei.  Can't do ATB too often, remember I want to reach sub 200lbs by Xmas?  I'm already lost about 4 lbs since I started going to the gym more.  Gonna start wearing hoodies on the elliptical to sweat more.

Another thing, print out your last mortgage statement from the old bank before payoff.  I do online statements, and if you don't snap shot your last statement it will be gone after it is paid off.  Some banks completely delete your account.  I even print out the YTD interest/principal summary page just in case for taxes.


Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on August 07, 2014, 09:31:25 PM
Can't do ATB too often, remember I want to reach sub 200lbs by Xmas?  I'm already lost about 4 lbs since I started going to the gym more.

just call lebron and ask him for his daily meal plans. you will be 175 in 6 weeks.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on August 07, 2014, 09:43:27 PM
Not changing meals that much, still eating the foods i like, smaller portions, cut out soda, cut out places where I can over-indulge, and limit my beer intake.   I recall at the peak of my fitness decades ago, I did a sub 7 minute mile (good by my standards).  Hoping to repeat that soon when my knee is 110%.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: 0$ on August 11, 2014, 10:18:08 PM
:P
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on August 11, 2014, 10:46:00 PM
now we will have to see who refis more often in the future, PS9 or OS.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on August 11, 2014, 10:59:27 PM
Mine funded today, my lender called me the "referral machine".   Must've pulled in a lot of business for her.  Friendly emails, never actually talked to her, which always make these transactions kinda weird.  I liked the fact she emailed me on doc signing day saying she's available if any question arises.  This is at 7-8pm, never had this kind of service for a refi.  My Jersey Shore brokers are always hard to get a hold of and when you do talk to them, the heavy accents can be daunting.  Her being in the same time zone is a great plus. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on August 11, 2014, 11:14:43 PM
Mine funded today, my lender called me the "referral machine".   Must've pulled in a lot of business for her.  Friendly emails, never actually talked to her, which always make these transactions kinda weird.  I liked the fact she emailed me on doc signing day saying she's available if any question arises.  This is at 7-8pm, never had this kind of service for a refi.  My Jersey Shore brokers are always hard to get a hold of and when you do talk to them, the heavy accents can be daunting.  Her being in the same time zone is a great plus. 

you should take her out to lunch to say thanks - she is cute. i go down to SD about once a month, so if you dont i may have to :-)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: 0$ on August 12, 2014, 06:28:51 AM
 ???
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on August 12, 2014, 07:59:03 AM
ps9 will just send her a smart switch.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: LiveAtOC on August 14, 2014, 11:38:08 AM
I came to know through one of my friend experience with Wescom.
Delay in closing loan on time.
At least 2 to 3 days delay even through various followup escalation process.

FYI... caution when lending through Wescom even though they are local to SoCal.

Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Homer_Simpson on August 20, 2014, 01:54:53 PM
We sign docs Sunday and should shortly.  Got enough to prepay the HOA dues for half a year LOL.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: 0$ on August 20, 2014, 02:04:10 PM
8)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on August 25, 2014, 07:51:10 PM
My latest refi just populated my chase log in, turned on auto pay to October 15th to maximize my grace period, and I'm done.  Gonna make a principal payment soon to catch up with the two months no mortgage payment (paid interest at closing but no principal). 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: paperboyNC on August 27, 2014, 10:03:54 AM
The company I went with was unable to "find an investor" to fund the loan. My wife switched recently from a W2 income to a 1099 income so most lenders won't count her income. This one said they had it approved with only my income (my income is also not cut and dry). I paid for an appraisal based on their assurance that if the appraisal was good, the loan would close. The appraisal is non-transferable. Should they pay for any of it or am I stuck eating the cost?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on August 27, 2014, 10:38:43 AM
Only in the very rarest of circumstances can a lender use income from a borrower who recently switches from W-2 to 1099/Self Employment. The best case scenario is when a Lawyer within a partnership forms their own law firm, or a Doctor leaves Kaiser and forms their own medical practice. Depending on the nature of the employment (not income) that your spouse is in, there could be an option, but again it's rare.

The appraisal for the most part is good for that lender only. You have to pay for a new appraisal if another company other than the one you started with is going to fund your loan. I'd ask if there is an appraisal review process required at any of the lenders you're working with. Many mortgage bankers will need 2 appraisals, or an appraisal with a second review ($100-$300) depending on the value of your home.

My .02c
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: paperboyNC on August 27, 2014, 10:41:22 AM
Only in the very rarest of circumstances can a lender use income from a borrower who recently switches from W-2 to 1099/Self Employment. The best case scenario is when a Lawyer within a partnership forms their own law firm, or a Doctor leaves Kaiser and forms their own medical practice. Depending on the nature of the employment (not income) that your spouse is in, there could be an option, but again it's rare.

The appraisal for the most part is good for that lender only. You have to pay for a new appraisal if another company other than the one you started with is going to fund your loan. I'd ask if there is an appraisal review process required at any of the lenders you're working with. Many mortgage bankers will need 2 appraisals, or an appraisal with a second review ($100-$300) depending on the value of your home.

My .02c

I'm not going to refinance at this point. My question is whether the lender should pay for the appraisal given that they misled me in order to get me to order it.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: eyephone on August 27, 2014, 10:45:10 AM
Only in the very rarest of circumstances can a lender use income from a borrower who recently switches from W-2 to 1099/Self Employment. The best case scenario is when a Lawyer within a partnership forms their own law firm, or a Doctor leaves Kaiser and forms their own medical practice. Depending on the nature of the employment (not income) that your spouse is in, there could be an option, but again it's rare.

The appraisal for the most part is good for that lender only. You have to pay for a new appraisal if another company other than the one you started with is going to fund your loan. I'd ask if there is an appraisal review process required at any of the lenders you're working with. Many mortgage bankers will need 2 appraisals, or an appraisal with a second review ($100-$300) depending on the value of your home.

My .02c

I'm not going to refinance at this point. My question is whether the lender should pay for the appraisal given that they misled me in order to get me to order it.

I think you have to eat the appraisal cost.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on August 27, 2014, 10:51:48 AM
Sorry for misunderstanding. I thought the process was ongoing with another company.

The person being paid for the appraisal is the appraiser. It's a pass through from the appraiser to the lender to you. Since the appraiser did some work they are owed for that work performed. That's the clinical, high level view.

The real world, rubber meets the road view is that if the lender doesn't refund the appraisal, I'd take it up with the manager. If the manager won't, I'd take it up with Zillow in their review section, or Yelp! The income issue was lending 101 and should have been stopped at the gate before anyone ordered the appraisal.

With a review threat, that may be enough to move their footsteps in the right direction.

My .02c
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on August 27, 2014, 01:13:26 PM
Hey...it may work out to your benefit.  Treasury yield are dropping quickly.  As I type this, it's at 2.36, down from a high of 3.04 in January, 2.7s in June, and 2.5s a month ago.

MGD has best performing Jumbo 30 years at 3.98, 30 year at 4.11%, FHA at 3.75, and 15 year at 3.26.  I think this is not factoring the drop in yield today.

GDP numbers come out tomorrow...hopefully it as expected and doesn't upset the market.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on August 27, 2014, 01:48:33 PM
It's ps9 time!
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on August 27, 2014, 02:02:04 PM
3 TI members pm'd me today for referral contact.  Just checked zillow, Residential Wholesale Mortgage is at 2.625% with $5800 credit for a 5/1 ARM Jumbo, 55%LTV.  Should be able to get 2.5% with enought credit (~$2200) to close with no fees.  I should've waited, might be close to 2.375% no fees if I push hard.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on August 27, 2014, 02:15:59 PM
3 TI members pm'd me today for referral contact.  Just checked zillow, Residential Wholesale Mortgage is at 2.625% with $5800 credit for a 5/1 ARM Jumbo, 55%LTV.  Should be able to get 2.5% with enought credit (~$2200) to close with no fees.  I should've waited, might be close to 2.375% no fees if I push hard.

so i just checked zillow. and i get 2.625 for $1 lender fees + 3rd party fees not included. Do you actually call your contact? or is the info you listed straight off of the results page?

how bout the 55%LTV? are you just saying 55% LTV because those are the inputs you use? or is there some field im missing?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: iHeartIrvine on August 27, 2014, 02:28:45 PM
3 TI members pm'd me today for referral contact.  Just checked zillow, Residential Wholesale Mortgage is at 2.625% with $5800 credit for a 5/1 ARM Jumbo, 55%LTV.  Should be able to get 2.5% with enought credit (~$2200) to close with no fees.  I should've waited, might be close to 2.375% no fees if I push hard.

so i just checked zillow. and i get 2.625 for $1 lender fees + 3rd party fees not included. Do you actually call your contact? or is the info you listed straight off of the results page?

how bout the 55%LTV? are you just saying 55% LTV because those are the inputs you use? or is there some field im missing?

I got the same result as you with 54% LTV.  Interested in how PS9 can get the killer deal.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on August 27, 2014, 02:53:06 PM
Curious if anyone has had this discussion - the framework first....

If Lender A makes a 2.625% 5/1 ARM with $5,000 in rebate, the full rebate is closer to $6,500. A portion is kept by the originating lender and $500 or so to the person on the phone you're working with. That loan closes and is then sold off to Chase/Wells/Ocwen, etc.

Suddenly rates drop and Lender B now has a 5/1 ARM at 2.500. You refi and close within 60-90 days of your last refi.  More often than not there will be a clawback from the investor to Lender A for that YSP of $6,500.

Most people will just say "Who cares?!? It's my right to refi!", but the lender and the loan officer are now on the hook for that $6,500. Curious if anyone's been called about the early pay off, if there are any requests not to refinance within a specific time frame, or other pushbacks from the Lender A's out there who are taking it in the shorts when an early payoff happens.  OK to PM me if you don't want to post here.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on August 27, 2014, 02:59:17 PM
Curious if anyone has had this discussion - the framework first....

If Lender A makes a 2.625% 5/1 ARM with $5,000 in rebate, the full rebate is closer to $6,500. A portion is kept by the originating lender and $500 or so to the person on the phone you're working with. That loan closes and is then sold off to Chase/Wells/Ocwen, etc.

Suddenly rates drop and Lender B now has a 5/1 ARM at 2.500. You refi and close within 60-90 days of your last refi.  More often than not there will be a clawback from the investor to Lender A for that YSP of $6,500.

Most people will just say "Who cares?!? It's my right to refi!", but the lender and the loan officer are now on the hook for that $6,500. Curious if anyone's been called about the early pay off, if there are any requests not to refinance within a specific time frame, or other pushbacks from the Lender A's out there who are taking it in the shorts when an early payoff happens.  OK to PM me if you don't want to post here.

I have no idea but I don't understand why rebates would be lower.  Aren't the rebates there to incentivize the borrower and the agent to pick that lender over others?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on August 27, 2014, 03:00:49 PM
I'm curious if anyone knows....what was the lowest rate at no points on the 5/1 ARM last year before rates popped?  2.25%?  2.125%?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on August 27, 2014, 03:33:25 PM
Apparently Russia just invaded Ukraine, which means more money flowing into US Treasuries.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: paperboyNC on August 27, 2014, 03:37:09 PM
Curious if anyone has had this discussion - the framework first....

If Lender A makes a 2.625% 5/1 ARM with $5,000 in rebate, the full rebate is closer to $6,500. A portion is kept by the originating lender and $500 or so to the person on the phone you're working with. That loan closes and is then sold off to Chase/Wells/Ocwen, etc.

Suddenly rates drop and Lender B now has a 5/1 ARM at 2.500. You refi and close within 60-90 days of your last refi.  More often than not there will be a clawback from the investor to Lender A for that YSP of $6,500.

Most people will just say "Who cares?!? It's my right to refi!", but the lender and the loan officer are now on the hook for that $6,500. Curious if anyone's been called about the early pay off, if there are any requests not to refinance within a specific time frame, or other pushbacks from the Lender A's out there who are taking it in the shorts when an early payoff happens.  OK to PM me if you don't want to post here.

I have no idea but I don't understand why rebates would be lower.  Aren't the rebates there to incentivize the borrower and the agent to pick that lender over others?

I had a mortgage with an early payment penalty for the first X years.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on August 27, 2014, 03:58:47 PM
Curious if anyone has had this discussion - the framework first....

If Lender A makes a 2.625% 5/1 ARM with $5,000 in rebate, the full rebate is closer to $6,500. A portion is kept by the originating lender and $500 or so to the person on the phone you're working with. That loan closes and is then sold off to Chase/Wells/Ocwen, etc.

Suddenly rates drop and Lender B now has a 5/1 ARM at 2.500. You refi and close within 60-90 days of your last refi.  More often than not there will be a clawback from the investor to Lender A for that YSP of $6,500.

Most people will just say "Who cares?!? It's my right to refi!", but the lender and the loan officer are now on the hook for that $6,500. Curious if anyone's been called about the early pay off, if there are any requests not to refinance within a specific time frame, or other pushbacks from the Lender A's out there who are taking it in the shorts when an early payoff happens.  OK to PM me if you don't want to post here.

I have no idea but I don't understand why rebates would be lower.  Aren't the rebates there to incentivize the borrower and the agent to pick that lender over others?

I had a mortgage with an early payment penalty for the first X years.

Ahh...I misunderstood the scenario.  Thanks.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on August 27, 2014, 07:05:41 PM
3 TI members pm'd me today for referral contact.  Just checked zillow, Residential Wholesale Mortgage is at 2.625% with $5800 credit for a 5/1 ARM Jumbo, 55%LTV.  Should be able to get 2.5% with enought credit (~$2200) to close with no fees.  I should've waited, might be close to 2.375% no fees if I push hard.

so i just checked zillow. and i get 2.625 for $1 lender fees + 3rd party fees not included. Do you actually call your contact? or is the info you listed straight off of the results page?

how bout the 55%LTV? are you just saying 55% LTV because those are the inputs you use? or is there some field im missing?

I got the same result as you with 54% LTV.  Interested in how PS9 can get the killer deal.

(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/Ps99472/A01F5B3D-AD2D-4D89-BD10-B2699AA6E179_zpsjwv69kjd.png)

(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/Ps99472/E3B9E0F8-9037-4A8A-A090-F867AAE48001_zpsll5qeq86.png)

(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/Ps99472/94DA9C09-8AF6-4FE1-94FB-DE23C199043A_zpsuulsp2lf.png)

Did the search at around 2pm today.  I notice RWM removes the listing towards the end of day.  I had the search saved in my zillow app.  My loan search parameters are set to:

Irvine
FICO 760+
amount financed at 55% LTV (i.e. $550,000/$1,000,000)
Primary residence
No cash out
Single family
Income $200,000+
Monthly debt $7000

And sort the results by 'Lender Fees'

If you're at the zillow desktop site instead of app/smartphone/tablet, make sure you check 'no fee no points' which is in the 'Filter' drop down box in the upper right after you do your search.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ob1 on August 28, 2014, 07:32:15 AM
3 TI members pm'd me today for referral contact.  Just checked zillow, Residential Wholesale Mortgage is at 2.625% with $5800 credit for a 5/1 ARM Jumbo, 55%LTV.  Should be able to get 2.5% with enought credit (~$2200) to close with no fees.  I should've waited, might be close to 2.375% no fees if I push hard.

Your SN has somehow become synonymous with 5/1. 
Thanks for the info.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on August 28, 2014, 09:50:33 AM
Lowest 5/1 -0- cost was 2.125% during the last swing. Most lenders do not price loans below their margin. Since most margins today are 2.25%, my guess is that's the next possible low point.

Every so often in our servicing portfolio I've seen 3/1 ARM's that closed at 1.8% rate. They had to have locked at the bottom and had some kind of banking relationship benefit to get below the ARM margin.

My .02c

Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on September 04, 2014, 03:29:07 PM
loan funded today. I am now officially part of 5/1 ARM club. 

thanks to everyone for showing me the light.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on September 04, 2014, 04:21:51 PM
thanks to everyone for showing me the light.
It's really ps9 hadoken'ing you the light:

(http://i62.tinypic.com/2nb7tqd.jpg)

(gonna repost that picture whenever I have a chance)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on October 04, 2014, 06:05:52 PM
those that refi'd a couple months ago, remember your payment "free" 2 month holiday is now over.  still Chase for me, so easy to setup auto payment on the 15th every month. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: lnc on October 06, 2014, 03:35:48 PM
How about a near 0%, 0.125% 15 year mortgage?  :o

If this type of loan catches on, it could be a game changer.

Quote
New 15-Year Mortgage May Open Homeownership Door For More Buyers

The 30-year mortgage is the foundation of the real estate market largely because it makes housing more affordable. But the truth is, it's a lousy loan for building actual ownership or equity in your home during the first 5 or 7 years, which caused big trouble when housing crashed.

But there's something new that's getting a lot of attention. It's called the Wealth Building Home Loan because it helps people own more of their house more quickly. A pilot project is already up and running to offer this new type of affordable 15-year loan to thousands of homeowners.

Kimberly Wright of Memphis, Tenn., just closed on one of those 15-year loans, with an interest rate that's close to zero. It's just 0.125 percent - as in about one-tenth of one percent.  With a near zero percent interest rate, nearly all of her monthly $650 payment will go to pay off her principal, quickly building an ownership stake in her house.
http://www.npr.org/2014/10/03/353521437/new-15-year-mortgage-may-open-homeownership-door-for-more-buyers

More Link to related story: 
http://www.latimes.com/business/realestate/la-fi-lew-20141005-story.html
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on October 06, 2014, 05:56:39 PM
How about a near 0%, 0.125% 15 year mortgage?  :o

If this type of loan catches on, it could be a game changer.

Quote
New 15-Year Mortgage May Open Homeownership Door For More Buyers

The 30-year mortgage is the foundation of the real estate market largely because it makes housing more affordable. But the truth is, it's a lousy loan for building actual ownership or equity in your home during the first 5 or 7 years, which caused big trouble when housing crashed.

But there's something new that's getting a lot of attention. It's called the Wealth Building Home Loan because it helps people own more of their house more quickly. A pilot project is already up and running to offer this new type of affordable 15-year loan to thousands of homeowners.

Kimberly Wright of Memphis, Tenn., just closed on one of those 15-year loans, with an interest rate that's close to zero. It's just 0.125 percent - as in about one-tenth of one percent.  With a near zero percent interest rate, nearly all of her monthly $650 payment will go to pay off her principal, quickly building an ownership stake in her house.
http://www.npr.org/2014/10/03/353521437/new-15-year-mortgage-may-open-homeownership-door-for-more-buyers
So you pay 5-6pts up-front and get a .125% rate for 15 years, huh?  Interesting. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on October 06, 2014, 06:25:26 PM
FYI - At 5 points you're able to get into the low to mid 2% range on a 15 year fixed rate - purchase or refinance, sub $417k. Sellers / Agents can contribute up to 6% of the purchase price when 20% or more is put down. Most lenders have a "floor rate" when it comes to pricing loans however some might reach down sub 2% with enough points paid.

The many buyers don't look through the prism of "ownership" but "tax benefit" when buying a home. There is a lack of a substantial MID writeoff with a low rate loan. Is the MID worth giving up when you're plowing so much cash into the principal? It's an interesting sell, one that is worth exploring.

My .02c
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on October 06, 2014, 08:29:29 PM
The many buyers don't look through the prism of "ownership" but "tax benefit" when buying a home. There is a lack of a substantial MID writeoff with a low rate loan. Is the MID worth giving up when you're plowing so much cash into the principal? It's an interesting sell, one that is worth exploring.

My .02c

That's because most buyers are financially illiterate. It's never good to pay one dollar to save 30-40 cents.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on October 08, 2014, 11:46:40 AM
FYI - At 5 points you're able to get into the low to mid 2% range on a 15 year fixed rate - purchase or refinance, sub $417k. Sellers / Agents can contribute up to 6% of the purchase price when 20% or more is put down. Most lenders have a "floor rate" when it comes to pricing loans however some might reach down sub 2% with enough points paid.

The many buyers don't look through the prism of "ownership" but "tax benefit" when buying a home. There is a lack of a substantial MID writeoff with a low rate loan. Is the MID worth giving up when you're plowing so much cash into the principal? It's an interesting sell, one that is worth exploring.

My .02c

Well most people don't have the money to put down to buy points, especially with the market prices at where it is. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: lovinLife on October 08, 2014, 12:53:52 PM
For this new Wealth Building Home loan, if you have a high enough downpayment, can't you roll those points into the mortgage...it's not like the interest on that is much (at ~0.1%)?  What about the points as a deduction on your taxes?  Can you write them off all in one year if paid upfront? 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: RandomLetters on October 10, 2014, 02:14:53 PM
My pricing on amortizing 5/1 and 7/1 are identical (3.125%).
Now, I'm considering an Interest Only, which will bump the rate to 3.375%, but give me added flexibility.

I know TI is 5/1 Land, but anyone have any strong pro/con feelings on IOs?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on October 10, 2014, 02:18:03 PM
One of the benefits for 5or7/1s is the accelerated pay down of principal.

So IO isn't prime time / EV / Solar / ARM.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on October 10, 2014, 02:36:45 PM
IO is preferred if you can qualify for it. The rules for these loans tend to be very restrictive given the risk profile they represent. As seen with IO Option ARM's, in some peoples hands they were great. Others... not so much.

If you intend to amortize the loan as fast as possible, interest charges on IO loans are based on the principal balance. If you put X down on principal in December, your January payment will have lower interest costs, and so on as you pay down the balance faster. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on October 10, 2014, 02:40:08 PM
Where are you seeing these IO loans?

Does that mean we will see the return of the Options ARMs too?

Personally, we used an Option ARM long ago, used the IO payment and it was great in helping manage cash flow but seeing the principal balance not move after a few years made us finance into a 30-year when rates dropped.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: RandomLetters on October 10, 2014, 03:17:11 PM
Where are you seeing these IO loans?

Does that mean we will see the return of the Options ARMs too?

Personally, we used an Option ARM long ago, used the IO payment and it was great in helping manage cash flow but seeing the principal balance not move after a few years made us finance into a 30-year when rates dropped.

I dont think they're widely available.
I have a "special relationship."
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on October 10, 2014, 04:30:12 PM
IO is available. They do require a terrific amount of post closing cash reserves and you qualify under very tight ratios. Major banks have it, along with a few mortgage bankers.

Option ARM's are for all intents and purposes banned. Never say never though....
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: i1 on October 10, 2014, 10:12:35 PM
IO rate is too high a price to pay for the added flexibility. I wouldn't do it unless I had a very good reason I wanted the extra funds. But I like the concept of io.

3.125 also seems too high for a regular 5/1.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on October 10, 2014, 10:22:21 PM
Can you get a 2.5% no cost 5/1 ARM for a <$417k loan with 50-55% LTV?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on October 14, 2014, 07:46:46 AM
Holy falling yields...it's at around 2.21 with an overnight low of 2.18.  We are getting back into 2012 levels.

I guess Germany and US treasuries are the two places people are flocking to put their money in with the stocks correcting.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on October 14, 2014, 08:33:47 AM
Saw a 3.75% 30yr jumbo with $6000 in lender credits.  Annie Mac thru Zillow.  5/1 ARM Jumbo saw 2.5% yesterday with Annie Mac, can't wait to see what RWM will have today
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on October 14, 2014, 09:30:22 AM
Saw a 3.75% 30yr jumbo with $6000 in lender credits.  Annie Mac thru Zillow.  5/1 ARM Jumbo saw 2.5% yesterday with Annie Mac, can't wait to see what RWM will have today

Let us know what u see. Your quotes are somehow better than everyone else's :-)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: RandomLetters on October 14, 2014, 10:03:48 AM
Saw a 3.75% 30yr jumbo with $6000 in lender credits.  Annie Mac thru Zillow.  5/1 ARM Jumbo saw 2.5% yesterday with Annie Mac, can't wait to see what RWM will have today

Let us know what u see. Your quotes are somehow better than everyone else's :-)

I'm glad it's not just me.
I'm not seeing 5/1 at 2.5%.
Maybe I'm in SuperJumbo range though.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on October 14, 2014, 10:25:18 AM
It's the LTV that pushes the rate further down. 70-80% is X, and 55-69.9 is X minus.

Althought the 10 yr T is falling, mortgage rates aren't tied directly to that security - it's an indicator of the direction of rates. Watch the MBS market when possible for the price of mortgage rates. Given rate swings (just like Stock market movement) banks aren't giving away their product as low as they could without some confirmation we're going to see all rates this low for some time (needing QE4EVER to do so). It's uncharted territory come November when the Fed pulls back and part of the reason rates aren't in the 3's across the board.   

Once lenders hit index plus margin - about 2.375-2.50% that's about as far down as you'll likely see 5/1 ARM rates for -0- pts. -0- fees. It would be great if I'm wrong and time will tell.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on October 15, 2014, 08:49:36 AM
10/15/2014: 10yr T 1.99%

Sub 4x% 30 fixed back again pretty much across the spectrum.

Some thoughts at these levels: A couple of additional -200pt stock market days and the whispering about QE4 / low rates forever is going to get significantly louder. Rates don't fall to the ground, nor do stocks. There will likely be a snap back rally in stocks in some near term. Mortgage rates will torque back higher when that happens. The old saw "make hay while the sun shines" applies here. If you can get .125-.25% better than what you have, take it. In 6 months loan rates could be above 4.0% (who knows), or below 3.5% (who knows). If you capture 3.75%, it's always possible to refinance again for free should the current trend continue lower into 2015.

My .02c

Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on October 15, 2014, 08:56:46 AM
2.375% 5/1 ARM 55% LTV!!!  Annie Mac with $4000 credit
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: RandomLetters on October 15, 2014, 09:11:39 AM
2.375% 5/1 ARM 55% LTV!!!  Annie Mac with $4000 credit

Now I see my problem.  #99%er
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Harajuku on October 15, 2014, 09:23:50 AM
2.375% 5/1 ARM 55% LTV!!!  Annie Mac with $4000 credit

I want to get your computer or mobile phone because with the same exact criteria I could never get that rate. 
It's 2.5%, $479 fee from AnnieMac


Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on October 15, 2014, 02:08:34 PM
So called my contact at Annie Mac, 5/1 ARM Jumbo 55%LTV, Fico 760+, at around 1pm, got quoted with $2200 in credits.  Had to go back to work so couldn't lock, call back around 2pm and the credit is now $1300.  He says lots of swings in the mortgage rates today, not typical, not sure if what he's saying is true.  Gonna table it until I can hit that $2200 credit sweet spot for another free refi.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on October 15, 2014, 02:09:54 PM
So what about 80% LTV rates for us 99%ers?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: The California Court Company on October 15, 2014, 02:13:52 PM
got too much cash in the bank with puny interest rates that wife has been complaining. trying to convince her to invest that into LTV or US treasuries or RMB or 2nd house in OH
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on October 15, 2014, 08:54:39 PM
Huh, just got an email from my contact at RWMI (last broker I refi'd with).  2.25% with no cost for 5/1 ARM jumbo.  Was told to call early tomorrow to lock.  Keep you guys updated. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: i1 on October 15, 2014, 08:59:10 PM
So called my contact at Annie Mac, 5/1 ARM Jumbo 55%LTV, Fico 760+, at around 1pm, got quoted with $2200 in credits.  Had to go back to work so couldn't lock, call back around 2pm and the credit is now $1300.  He says lots of swings in the mortgage rates today, not typical, not sure if what he's saying is true.  Gonna table it until I can hit that $2200 credit sweet spot for another free refi.
You've made me a bit more inclined towards a 5/1 than before.
But, is there any rate delta at which you would take a 30 yr fixed over a 5/1? I would imagine given the good quotes you're seeing on a 5/1, you might find a 30 yr fixed at 3.00% flat.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on October 15, 2014, 11:48:18 PM
So called my contact at Annie Mac, 5/1 ARM Jumbo 55%LTV, Fico 760+, at around 1pm, got quoted with $2200 in credits.  Had to go back to work so couldn't lock, call back around 2pm and the credit is now $1300.  He says lots of swings in the mortgage rates today, not typical, not sure if what he's saying is true.  Gonna table it until I can hit that $2200 credit sweet spot for another free refi.
You've made me a bit more inclined towards a 5/1 than before.
But, is there any rate delta at which you would take a 30 yr fixed over a 5/1? I would imagine given the good quotes you're seeing on a 5/1, you might find a 30 yr fixed at 3.00% flat.

The 30-year fixed loan never got to 3.00%...I think it got down to 3.125%-3.25%. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on October 16, 2014, 02:46:32 PM
residential wholesale mortgage quoted me jumbo 5/1 ARM at 2.625 with no closing costs. im at 2.75% right now. so no go.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on October 16, 2014, 03:38:55 PM
Should've called in sick to work yesterday, probably could've gotten that 2.25% with Residential Wholesale if I had time to lock. Rates really spiked up today. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: rkp on October 16, 2014, 06:40:51 PM
residential wholesale mortgage quoted me jumbo 5/1 ARM at 2.625 with no closing costs. im at 2.75% right now. so no go.

How do you decide its worth pulling the trigger?  In Qwerty's example, if we assume the jumbo is $500K, the .125 would be $30 a month. While trivial, its still more moola in your pocket and takes a few hours of paperwork. 

Or is there more to refinancing that I am missing?  I have never refinanced and looks like we can save $200 a month if we pay about $2500 and trying to decide if we should or shouldn't.

Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on October 16, 2014, 07:15:05 PM
RKP - I don't have a set threshold. My gross payment would have gone down a little more than u calculated but the net payment wouldn't be as much because my tax bill is going to go up. But clearly u still come out ahead. At this point in only two months into my refi, don't have threshold just go with my gut to wait it out a little longer for the rate to drop to 2.5. In a year, if I'm still at 2.75 and can refi into the same rate I'll do it since it would give me another year of 2.75%.

In your case, for 200 (assuming it's gross) I would do it, if you are equipped to handle the outcomes when your 5 year rate expires.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on October 16, 2014, 07:37:54 PM
residential wholesale mortgage quoted me jumbo 5/1 ARM at 2.625 with no closing costs. im at 2.75% right now. so no go.

How do you decide its worth pulling the trigger?  In Qwerty's example, if we assume the jumbo is $500K, the .125 would be $30 a month. While trivial, its still more moola in your pocket and takes a few hours of paperwork. 

Or is there more to refinancing that I am missing?  I have never refinanced and looks like we can save $200 a month if we pay about $2500 and trying to decide if we should or shouldn't.


The rule with refi's is to get a zero cost refi and never pay for them (sometimes you have to take a 1/8% higher rate to get enough credit to cover the costs).
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: eyephone on October 16, 2014, 07:53:58 PM
residential wholesale mortgage quoted me jumbo 5/1 ARM at 2.625 with no closing costs. im at 2.75% right now. so no go.

How do you decide its worth pulling the trigger?  In Qwerty's example, if we assume the jumbo is $500K, the .125 would be $30 a month. While trivial, its still more moola in your pocket and takes a few hours of paperwork. 

Or is there more to refinancing that I am missing?  I have never refinanced and looks like we can save $200 a month if we pay about $2500 and trying to decide if we should or shouldn't.
If you can save 200 a month with no fees. That's a car payment for a leaf! ;)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on October 16, 2014, 08:56:34 PM
If you can save 200 a month with no fees. That's a car payment for a leaf! ;)
So 5/1s are prime time are EVs?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: rkp on October 16, 2014, 10:12:54 PM
I am too risk averse to join the 5/1 club.  Its going from a 30y fixed to a 30y fixed but saving $200 a month. 

I am not sure I understand the zero cost refi.  Yes ideally I can get that but this is for my primary residence that we definitely will stay in for a while.  The $2500 in fees will be covered in a little over a year. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on October 16, 2014, 10:23:41 PM
I am too risk averse to join the 5/1 club.  Its going from a 30y fixed to a 30y fixed but saving $200 a month. 

I am not sure I understand the zero cost refi.  Yes ideally I can get that but this is for my primary residence that we definitely will stay in for a while.  The $2500 in fees will be covered in a little over a year. 

the reason i would want to do a zero cost refi (where the lender credit, which is given to the borrower in exchange for going with a higher rate, covers any lender fees and third party closing costs) is because if rates drop .25% or more than the rate i refinanced into, i can just go ahead and refi without losing out on any money i paid. in your example, your payback is a little over a year. say you close on your refi and three months later rates drop another half a %, you just lost out on about $2K if you refi again, or will take you longer to break even on the new refi. good luck.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on October 17, 2014, 08:41:12 AM
#NoCostIsFiveOneTime
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehusky on October 17, 2014, 09:57:41 AM
Maybe I'm missing a point or two here (always possible) but when you are a serial refi'er, doesn't the loan go back to 30 years each time?  Isn't there a cost to extend the loan back from 28 years back to 30 years, etc. again due to the additional payments?  Even with the faster principal payback on those ARMs, I can't imagine the principal will go down that much more than a 30 year fixed for that short a time?  Well, I guess if you pay it back sooner all will be o.k.?  Is that the plan?  What if you are not able to for whatever reason?

I plan to die in this house (unless I win the Lotto, which I don't buy so no chance) so I want to pay off my loan as fast as possible.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on October 17, 2014, 10:58:22 AM
If you look at an amortization schedule, I think if you combo multiple 5/1s over a 15 year period, at year 15, your balance may not be that different at year 15 for your fixed rate (although you would have more years left to pay off). At that point in time, get a 15-year fixed and the higher LTV could give you a better rate than your 30-year one.

Add to that the fact that you saved probably $200+ a month each time you refi and that should make up for any balance difference.

In ps9's case, this doesn't matter as I don't think he plans to stay in his current home even 10 years.

Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on October 17, 2014, 11:01:43 AM
Maybe I'm missing a point or two here (always possible) but when you are a serial refi'er, doesn't the loan go back to 30 years each time?  Isn't there a cost to extend the loan back from 28 years back to 30 years, etc. again due to the additional payments?  Even with the faster principal payback on those ARMs, I can't imagine the principal will go down that much more than a 30 year fixed for that short a time?  Well, I guess if you pay it back sooner all will be o.k.?  Is that the plan?  What if you are not able to for whatever reason?

I plan to die in this house (unless I win the Lotto, which I don't buy so no chance) so I want to pay off my loan as fast as possible.

my plan is to pay off the house in 8 more years after this. so the pushing back of the final payment on a 30 year isnt an issue for me. my plan when we bought the house 2 years ago was to pay it off in no more than 10 years, so far im still on pace. so for the next 5 years ill have 2.75% (or less if i refi) and year 6 would be no more than 4.75%, so that covers me for 6 of the 8 years. im hoping to get lucky on the refi's to all 8 years are at no more than 2.75%.

however, if i was going to refi a 30 year mortgage and my plan was to pay it off over 30 years then i would ensure that even with refis i paid enough to make sure that i only had that mortgage for 30 years. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: lnc on October 29, 2014, 07:48:15 PM
Lock in to those low mortgage rate soon because rates might be headed toward 5 percent.  Unless there's QE4....

Mortgage rates are headed to 5 percent (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/10/29/mortgage-rates-are-headed-to-5-percent-but-dont-blame-the-fed/)

Quote
The Mortgage Bankers Association expects the average rate on a 30-year, fixed rate mortgage to rise slowly to 5.1 percent by the end of 2015 -- a full percentage point higher than where it was last week -- as the U.S. economy grows and the job market improves. (Generally, strong economic performance pushes mortgage rates up.)  If not for the economic and political turmoil that's erupted in other parts of the world, the forecasts for mortgage rates would probably be even higher.  "In our forecast, we're assuming that the global issues remain at a simmer," said Michael Fratantoni, the MBA's chief economist. "If they were to come to a full boil, rates would stay lower for longer."

Still, the Fed’s program – also known as “quantitative easing” – was a useful tool when it was needed most, research shows. It was launched late into the 2008 financial crisis as part of a push to stimulate the economy. The purchases immediately pushed mortgage rates reliably below the 6 percent mark for the first time in years. The central bank then conducted two more rounds of purchases that pushed rates down even further, causing them to fall to some of the lowest levels ever recorded.

Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on October 30, 2014, 02:19:44 PM
The Mortgage Bankers Association thought rates would end up over 5% at this time when they rolled out their 2014 rate predictions.


Mortgage rates will likely rise above 5 percent in 2014 and average 5.3 percent by the end of 2015, according to the Mortgage Bankers Association’s forecast.



http://realtormag.realtor.org/daily-news/2013/10/30/where-are-mortgage-rates-heading-in-2014

The bottom line you can count on: Who knows? No one.*

*including SGIP
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: lnc on December 04, 2014, 11:55:49 AM
Looks like the mortgage rates drop a little bit recently.  Anyone seeing a 30 year, 3.75% with no fee yet?

Mortgage Rates Lower Across the Board (http://freddiemac.mwnewsroom.com/press-releases/mortgage-rates-lower-across-the-board-otcqb-fmcc-1163118)
Quote
30-year fixed-rate mortgage (FRM) averaged 3.89 percent with an average 0.5 point for the week ending December 4, 2014

15-year FRM this week averaged 3.10 percent with an average 0.5 point, down from last week when it averaged 3.17 percent.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: A S on December 08, 2014, 06:18:38 PM
I was quoted 3.75% with no points no credit last week.  Think it will go lower?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Bullsback on December 08, 2014, 08:47:15 PM
Is a refi rate typically cheaper then new purchase? 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on December 08, 2014, 09:13:32 PM
Is a refi rate typically cheaper then new purchase? 

I say yes, lender either yours or builder's has no leverage over you since you already have the house.  If you get squeezed you can always walk away (maybe lose the appraisal fee) but you still have the house.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: i1 on December 09, 2014, 06:50:47 AM
ANew purchase is cheaper. Check on any large lender website
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on December 09, 2014, 10:04:20 AM
Get your paperwork ready, if the market continues this week, get ready to pounce on that 2.375% Jumbo ARM refi!  Right now checking with Residential Wholesale it's 2.5% with enough credit to close with no costs. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Homer_Simpson on December 09, 2014, 10:10:42 AM
Get your paperwork ready, if the market continues this week, get ready to pounce on that 2.375% Jumbo ARM refi!  Right now checking with Residential Wholesale it's 2.5% with enough credit to close with no costs.

Got a call from Cardinal and they said 2.5% today.. REFI party if it hits 2.375!
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: The California Court Company on December 09, 2014, 01:08:20 PM
what's the typical time to get a refi loan closed these days? is 30 day rate lock sufficient? especially with Holidays around the corner.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on December 09, 2014, 01:10:11 PM
what's the typical time to get a refi loan closed these days? is 30 day rate lock sufficient? especially with Holidays around the corner.

30 days should be plenty. Residential wholesale mortgage funds in 20-25 days
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: The California Court Company on December 09, 2014, 01:12:23 PM
how about other lenders? does it vary quite a bit?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Harajuku on December 09, 2014, 01:39:16 PM
what's the typical time to get a refi loan closed these days? is 30 day rate lock sufficient? especially with Holidays around the corner.

30 days should be plenty. Residential wholesale mortgage funds in 20-25 days

Same lender.  60 days and no end in sight.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on December 09, 2014, 01:47:11 PM
Residential stated 45 days lock, their investor (chase?) is swamped
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: eyephone on December 09, 2014, 02:10:58 PM
Just hope for the world stock market to tank. The rates should drop.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on December 09, 2014, 05:09:49 PM
Residential stated 45 days lock, their investor (chase?) is swamped

I had a pretty easy application and they didn't ask many questions since my finances are pretty straightforward, not sure if that plays into how fast they fund
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: The California Court Company on December 09, 2014, 07:16:27 PM
Just got a 45 day lock for 30 yr fixed @ 3.75 with net estimated closing credit of $1800 that can be used for prop tax and HOI. I'd have to pay net $700 for 3.675. For the puny diff in monthly bill I sure like taking the money now.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: bones on December 09, 2014, 07:25:07 PM
Just got a 45 day lock for 30 yr fixed @ 3.75 with net estimated closing credit of $1800 that can be used for prop tax and HOI. I'd have to pay net $700 for 3.675. For the puny diff in monthly bill I sure like taking the money now.

I agree. Curious - what LTV is that rate for?  I'm not getting as low. Not sure if its a broker issue or an LTV issue.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: The California Court Company on December 09, 2014, 07:32:20 PM
LTV is 51
Could have lived mortgage free with comfy reserve but wife says no.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on December 09, 2014, 08:06:46 PM
LTV is 51
Could have lived mortgage free with comfy reserve but wife says no.


Then why not 5/1 ARM and save some interest?  If SHTF/bug out time, you have the 1%er option of paying off your mortgage. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on December 09, 2014, 08:07:59 PM
Just got a 45 day lock for 30 yr fixed @ 3.75 with net estimated closing credit of $1800 that can be used for prop tax and HOI. I'd have to pay net $700 for 3.675. For the puny diff in monthly bill I sure like taking the money now.

I agree. Curious - what LTV is that rate for?  I'm not getting as low. Not sure if its a broker issue or an LTV issue.

Are u looking at a 30 year? Weren't you in the 5/1 arm club?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: eyephone on December 09, 2014, 08:14:35 PM
Just got a 45 day lock for 30 yr fixed @ 3.75 with net estimated closing credit of $1800 that can be used for prop tax and HOI. I'd have to pay net $700 for 3.675. For the puny diff in monthly bill I sure like taking the money now.

I'm greedy, I'm waiting for 30 year fixed @ 3.5 no fees. Give it a couple weeks or so.


Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: rkp on December 09, 2014, 09:03:47 PM
When you guys say no fees, are you including the lenders title insurance and all closing costs?  Zillow only shows me loans where the credit covers origination fee and appraisal fee but not title insurance and the other closing costs. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on December 09, 2014, 09:14:53 PM
I'm greedy, I'm waiting for 30 year fixed @ 3.5 no fees. Give it a couple weeks or so.
If you're really greedy, serial refi 5/1s.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on December 09, 2014, 09:22:58 PM
When you guys say no fees, are you including the lenders title insurance and all closing costs?  Zillow only shows me loans where the credit covers origination fee and appraisal fee but not title insurance and the other closing costs. 

My experience:  lender credit of ~$2500 will cover all closing costs for a jumbo 5/1 arm refi
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: The California Court Company on December 09, 2014, 09:45:57 PM
I think it is better to actually talk to the agent to get that clarified. Zillow does say 3rd party fees such as title insurance, escrow and other costs may not be covered. When I called, some lenders did tell me 3rd party fees are excluded, but some worked out the credit to have everything covered.
Also the total closing costs (including origination fees and title insurance) vary quite a bit. It is between $1400 to $2600. 1400 seems quite low to be realistic.

For my case though, there is $4000 credit difference between 3.675 and 3.75. Who in the right mind will take 3.675 that will take 12+ years to break even?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on December 09, 2014, 09:48:57 PM
When you guys say no fees, are you including the lenders title insurance and all closing costs?  Zillow only shows me loans where the credit covers origination fee and appraisal fee but not title insurance and the other closing costs. 

Correct. no fees means zero out of pocket. My refi with Residential wholesale cost me $26. I did have to pay for the appraisal initially but it got credited back at closing. That was the only out of pocket cost.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on December 10, 2014, 07:35:58 PM
When you guys say no fees, are you including the lenders title insurance and all closing costs?  Zillow only shows me loans where the credit covers origination fee and appraisal fee but not title insurance and the other closing costs. 

My experience:  lender credit of ~$2500 will cover all closing costs for a jumbo 5/1 arm refi
Yup, that's about what the fees that Alyson is showing.  Looking at a 2.625% 5/1 ARM at no cost with her (down from my 2.75% 5/5 ARM). 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: The California Court Company on December 11, 2014, 05:42:03 PM
for the experts here, is the impound escrow account (used to pay property tax and insurance) interest bearing in California?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on December 11, 2014, 07:56:00 PM
for the experts here, is the impound escrow account (used to pay property tax and insurance) interest bearing in California?

Yes, well for me it did, quite a few years back, recall the rate is pretty good as well
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: woodburyowner on December 11, 2014, 08:15:24 PM
for the experts here, is the impound escrow account (used to pay property tax and insurance) interest bearing in California?

Yes it is.  Since there is a minimum floor amount, the interest is much higher than what you would get at a bank right now.  I can't remember mine, but it was definitely more than 1%. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on December 16, 2014, 01:52:34 PM
Gonna lock with Alyson this afternoon on a 2.50% 5-year ARM with a few hundred back.  Looked at the 7-year ARM but I'd have to go 2.875% to get money back. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on December 16, 2014, 03:42:17 PM
Still waiting to bite on 2.375%, she said we're close, and can lock immediately when available, already got my docs in to her.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on December 16, 2014, 04:07:23 PM
Still waiting to bite on 2.375%, she said we're close, and can lock immediately when available, already got my docs in to her.
If they get that low, I'll just refi again.  If I recall correctly, the bottom for the 5-year ARM was 2.25%.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: The California Court Company on December 16, 2014, 05:25:23 PM
how soon you can start refi again? technically as soon as the day after the current refi closes?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on December 16, 2014, 06:15:52 PM
Guessing game: How many refis has ps9 done?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: rkp on December 16, 2014, 06:19:48 PM
how soon you can start refi again? technically as soon as the day after the current refi closes?

is there really no downside or risk to serial refinancing?  you reset the 30y clock every single time so i imagine you are paying more interest than someone not refinancing right?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: eyephone on December 16, 2014, 08:06:33 PM
how soon you can start refi again? technically as soon as the day after the current refi closes?

is there really no downside or risk to serial refinancing?  you reset the 30y clock every single time so i imagine you are paying more interest than someone not refinancing right?

The key is to get a no cost or credit back when you do a refi. The traditional storefront bank will typically charge you fees and the processing time might be a while.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on December 16, 2014, 08:17:06 PM
how soon you can start refi again? technically as soon as the day after the current refi closes?

is there really no downside or risk to serial refinancing?  you reset the 30y clock every single time so i imagine you are paying more interest than someone not refinancing right?

The key is to get a no cost or credit back when you do a refi. The traditional storefront bank will typically charge you fees and the processing time might be a while.
Yeah, smaller mortgage shops tend to have more competitive rates than most storefront banks.  If rates go lower then I'll refi again (as long as I get net credits back).  Refi costs seem to be around $2,500 +/- and the best part is that you can pick your own escrow company/escrow officer. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on December 16, 2014, 08:48:23 PM
how soon you can start refi again? technically as soon as the day after the current refi closes?

is there really no downside or risk to serial refinancing?  you reset the 30y clock every single time so i imagine you are paying more interest than someone not refinancing right?

The key is to get a no cost or credit back when you do a refi. The traditional storefront bank will typically charge you fees and the processing time might be a while.
Yeah, smaller mortgage shops tend to have more competitive rates than most storefront banks.  If rates go lower then I'll refi again (as long as I get net credits back).  Refi costs seem to be around $2,500 +/- and the best part is that you can pick your own escrow company/escrow officer. 

I didn't know you can pick your own escrow... if you don't mind me asking.. who do you recommend?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on December 16, 2014, 10:17:49 PM
how soon you can start refi again? technically as soon as the day after the current refi closes?

is there really no downside or risk to serial refinancing?  you reset the 30y clock every single time so i imagine you are paying more interest than someone not refinancing right?

The key is to get a no cost or credit back when you do a refi. The traditional storefront bank will typically charge you fees and the processing time might be a while.
Yeah, smaller mortgage shops tend to have more competitive rates than most storefront banks.  If rates go lower then I'll refi again (as long as I get net credits back).  Refi costs seem to be around $2,500 +/- and the best part is that you can pick your own escrow company/escrow officer. 

I didn't know you can pick your own escrow... if you don't mind me asking.. who do you recommend?
Alyson asked me who I wanted to use for my escrow since she knew I was a realtor.  She mentioned that you were her best customer.  haha  Check your PM. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: rkp on December 17, 2014, 12:30:16 AM
best part is that you can pick your own escrow company/escrow officer. 

what is the benefit of picking your own escrow?  do they offer rebate or discounted rate to you as you are realtor? 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Homer_Simpson on December 17, 2014, 07:01:31 AM
Can you guys pass Alyson's and the preferred Escrow's info my way?  I'm getting that itch to refi again!!  ;D
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on December 17, 2014, 07:14:12 AM
Can you guys pass Alyson's and the preferred Escrow's info my way?  I'm getting that itch to refi again!!  ;D
Don't lie... we all know you only deal in cash.

#FarmmieCashBuyer
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Homer_Simpson on December 17, 2014, 07:35:13 AM
Can you guys pass Alyson's and the preferred Escrow's info my way?  I'm getting that itch to refi again!!  ;D
Don't lie... we all know you only deal in cash.

#FarmmieCashBuyer

 :P  but seriously... pass along that info heh!
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on December 17, 2014, 12:28:11 PM
best part is that you can pick your own escrow company/escrow officer. 

what is the benefit of picking your own escrow?  do they offer rebate or discounted rate to you as you are realtor? 
The benefit is that I can pick the escrow officer that I've worked with previously (a known commodity to me).  Yeah, I get a small discount because I give her all the business on my listings.  But more than that she is great to work with and executes. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on December 17, 2014, 12:28:30 PM
Can you guys pass Alyson's and the preferred Escrow's info my way?  I'm getting that itch to refi again!!  ;D
Check your PM.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on December 17, 2014, 02:59:44 PM
Appraiser coming out to the house on Friday afternoon and I already sent him closed comps. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on December 17, 2014, 04:23:34 PM
Do you get to pick the appraiser too :) ?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on December 17, 2014, 04:37:11 PM
Do you get to pick the appraiser too :) ?
Nope, the Alyson picked him.  It's a local appraiser from Orange County though.  When you refi'ed with Alyson, how long after the appraiser showed up did you close on the loan/s? 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on December 17, 2014, 04:58:09 PM
Do you get to pick the appraiser too :) ?
Nope, the Alyson picked him.  It's a local appraiser from Orange County though.  When you refi'ed with Alyson, how long after the appraiser showed up did you close on the loan/s? 

Your stuff is probably too complicated for a fast close. The underwriters  are going to ask you tons of questions is my guess. Mine is pretty simple And had to still do like five letters of explanation.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on December 17, 2014, 05:10:49 PM
Do you get to pick the appraiser too :) ?
Nope, the Alyson picked him.  It's a local appraiser from Orange County though.  When you refi'ed with Alyson, how long after the appraiser showed up did you close on the loan/s? 

Your stuff is probably too complicated for a fast close. The underwriters  are going to ask you tons of questions is my guess. Mine is pretty simple And had to still do like five letters of explanation.
I told Alyson that I'm going to be one of her more complicated clients and to let me know what documents/letters of explanations they need.  I'm hoping things have loosened up since the loan volume has dropped in the past 3+ months. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Logik on January 02, 2015, 08:30:14 PM
Interesting LA Times article on new home loan product.

New home loan helps lower-income borrowers build equity quickly

1. Key feature of the so-called wealth-building home loan is a sharply reduced interest rate on a 15-year term
2. New loan aims primarily to help low- and moderate-income borrowers seeking to buy modestly priced homes
3. Inventors of new mortgage believe wealth-building effect is attractive to many borrowers and bankers

http://www.latimes.com/business/realestate/la-fi-equity-building-mortgage-20150103-story.html#page=1
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: eyephone on January 02, 2015, 11:38:43 PM
Interesting LA Times article on new home loan product.

New home loan helps lower-income borrowers build equity quickly

1. Key feature of the so-called wealth-building home loan is a sharply reduced interest rate on a 15-year term
2. New loan aims primarily to help low- and moderate-income borrowers seeking to buy modestly priced homes
3. Inventors of new mortgage believe wealth-building effect is attractive to many borrowers and bankers

http://www.latimes.com/business/realestate/la-fi-equity-building-mortgage-20150103-story.html#page=1

Another bubble in the making.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on January 02, 2015, 11:40:44 PM
Interesting, so instead of a down payment, you give that money to the bank as points to buy down the rate.   On a $400,000 0.5% loan (bought down from 4%), that's a $2300 monthly payment with the interest portion starting at $166/month!  At the end of 180 months total interest is around $15,000 plus the $16,000 (4%) paid as points = $31,000. 

A traditional 30 year 20% down on $400,000 loan with a rate of 3.5% = $1437 monthly payment.  But you would've paid $31,000 in interest at month 34.  If you do get to 30 years, the interest is close to $200,000. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: lnc on January 03, 2015, 09:31:25 AM
Interesting LA Times article on new home loan product.

New home loan helps lower-income borrowers build equity quickly

1. Key feature of the so-called wealth-building home loan is a sharply reduced interest rate on a 15-year term
2. New loan aims primarily to help low- and moderate-income borrowers seeking to buy modestly priced homes
3. Inventors of new mortgage believe wealth-building effect is attractive to many borrowers and bankers

http://www.latimes.com/business/realestate/la-fi-equity-building-mortgage-20150103-story.html#page=1

I first read about it back in October and posted on page 54 (http://www.talkirvine.com/index.php/topic,2184.795.html) of this thread.

I hope this type of loan became more readily available, its especially beneficial for home owners to build equality.   

Typical 30yr mortgage don't build any significant equility in the first few years of ownership unless the home gain in value. It's almost like renting in the first few yeas with 30 yr mortgage.

One down side of this mortgage is that with the ultra low interest rate, home owner don't have much interest rate deduction when filing tax returns but I don't think most home owner with 0.125% interest rate will complain about that.

New 15-Year Mortgage May Open Homeownership Door For More Buyers (http://www.npr.org/2014/10/03/353521437/new-15-year-mortgage-may-open-homeownership-door-for-more-buyers)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Westsiiide! on January 03, 2015, 10:45:06 AM
and if the homeowner(s) loses his/her job(s) or needs to move… then what?  let me guess… they are entitled to a refund of their upfront interest rate pay down?  surely, that feature would make this the best loan available out there…

Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: paperboyNC on January 06, 2015, 09:46:55 AM
Interesting, so instead of a down payment, you give that money to the bank as points to buy down the rate.   On a $400,000 0.5% loan (bought down from 4%), that's a $2300 monthly payment with the interest portion starting at $166/month!  At the end of 180 months total interest is around $15,000 plus the $16,000 (4%) paid as points = $31,000. 

A traditional 30 year 20% down on $400,000 loan with a rate of 3.5% = $1437 monthly payment.  But you would've paid $31,000 in interest at month 34.  If you do get to 30 years, the interest is close to $200,000.

So what is the break-even point? (Assuming no refund of the 4% points if you refi or sell)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on January 06, 2015, 09:59:49 AM
and if the homeowner(s) loses his/her job(s) or needs to move… then what?  let me guess… they are entitled to a refund of their upfront interest rate pay down?  surely, that feature would make this the best loan available out there…



Bank giving back money?  You're funny.  Still if your financially sound, the amount of interest you save is incredible compared to any other product out there. 

Not getting the interest deduction?  Perfect, why try to get pennies on the dollar?  Mortgage interest deduction is like finding a lollipop while your plane is crashing, a nice bonus but try to avoid the situation if possible.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on January 06, 2015, 10:09:25 AM
Interesting, so instead of a down payment, you give that money to the bank as points to buy down the rate.   On a $400,000 0.5% loan (bought down from 4%), that's a $2300 monthly payment with the interest portion starting at $166/month!  At the end of 180 months total interest is around $15,000 plus the $16,000 (4%) paid as points = $31,000. 

A traditional 30 year 20% down on $400,000 loan with a rate of 3.5% = $1437 monthly payment.  But you would've paid $31,000 in interest at month 34.  If you do get to 30 years, the interest is close to $200,000.

So what is the break-even point? (Assuming no refund of the 4% points if you refi or sell)

At around 17-18 months with a 30 year you would approach $16,000 in mortgage interest.  So after 1.5 years, you would be ahead by going with the 15 year 0.5% versus the 30 year 3.5%, not to mention your principal will be quite a bit lower as well.  A win win if you can stomach the higher monthly payment.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on January 06, 2015, 10:22:47 AM
A few words to the wise for anyone watching rates fall and wondering what the best path forward is:

1) With low rates comes a "rush to the exit" - meaning processing time will stretch from 60 days to 90 days. Plan accordingly.

2) Trees don't grow to the sky and mortgage rates don't fall to zero. At any moment I'd anticipate a .25% in rate or .50 in fee snap back rally. Should someone from the Royal House of Saudi come out and say they'll begin to pump less oil, or if Greece rejects their Anti-Euro candidates, rates will rise pretty fast. Take what you can because timing the market is very, very difficult - even for professionals.

3) If you closed a purchase or refi within the past 90 days, some lenders can't refi your loan. Ask your loan officer if "seasoning is an issue" and always get the answer in writing.

4) Regretfully, your escrow, title report, and appraisal from your last deal can't be used - even if your refi is through the same lender. I get that question often and may as well burp up the answer ahead of it being asked.

5) Will the Fed raise rates mid 2015? Perhaps, but it often has zero impact on mortgages. Don't make refinance or purchase loan lock plans in relation to a possible Fed rate increase.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: bones on January 06, 2015, 12:14:26 PM
Day 27 of refi.  Appraiser shows up.  Super intimidating - no nonsense, no small talk.  Had a list of comps to show/give.  Appraiser claims to be "very" familiar with this area so wussed out and decided to keep the comps to myself. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on January 06, 2015, 12:18:57 PM
Day 27 of refi.  Appraiser shows up.  Super intimidating - no nonsense, no small talk.  Had a list of comps to show/give.  Appraiser claims to be "very" familiar with this area so wussed out and decided to keep the comps to myself. 
It took 27 days for the appraiser to come out?  Wow, that's slow.  I had the appraiser at my home about 9 days after I locked and said to proceed.  Got conditional approval last night with a load of letters of explanations along with providing full back-up for the commission that my broker wired me in the past 3 months.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: bones on January 07, 2015, 05:18:48 PM
Day 27 of refi.  Appraiser shows up.  Super intimidating - no nonsense, no small talk.  Had a list of comps to show/give.  Appraiser claims to be "very" familiar with this area so wussed out and decided to keep the comps to myself. 
It took 27 days for the appraiser to come out?  Wow, that's slow.  I had the appraiser at my home about 9 days after I locked and said to proceed.  Got conditional approval last night with a load of letters of explanations along with providing full back-up for the commission that my broker wired me in the past 3 months.

Yea slow appraisal.  But took 40 days to close.  Well within the 60 day discussed upfront.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: rkp on January 07, 2015, 10:42:31 PM
locked a jumbo 30 year fixed for 3.625 with 1 free relock if rate drops at watermark.  this is what they offered me today:

3.5% 30 day - $946 credit
3.5% 45 day - $2275 cost
3.625 30 day - $5077 credit
3.625 45 day - $2802 credit <-- took this one
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: . on January 08, 2015, 02:41:12 PM
anyone here can refinance? i am trying to refinance if interest rate is low.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on January 08, 2015, 02:48:26 PM
Looks like I just missed the low yesterday, 2.5% with $3800 in credit, could've gotten a nice chunk of change left after closing.  Today is only with $1800 credit.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on January 09, 2015, 08:33:28 AM
Looks like I just missed the low yesterday, 2.5% with $3800 in credit, could've gotten a nice chunk of change left after closing.  Today is only with $1800 credit.

Lock today!  10 year down to 1.95!
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvine Dream on January 09, 2015, 08:43:28 AM
Looks like I just missed the low yesterday, 2.5% with $3800 in credit, could've gotten a nice chunk of change left after closing.  Today is only with $1800 credit.

Lock today!  10 year down to 1.95!
Vow.  Where can you get this rate?  May be this explains the $480K appreciation in 3 years
https://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/74-Statuary-92620/home/40101332
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: . on January 09, 2015, 08:50:12 AM
Looks like I just missed the low yesterday, 2.5% with $3800 in credit, could've gotten a nice chunk of change left after closing.  Today is only with $1800 credit.

Lock today!  10 year down to 1.95!
where?  i can't find that info
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on January 09, 2015, 09:01:51 AM
Looks like I just missed the low yesterday, 2.5% with $3800 in credit, could've gotten a nice chunk of change left after closing.  Today is only with $1800 credit.

Lock today!  10 year down to 1.95!
where?  i can't find that info

I think he is talking about the 10 year treasury yield not mortgage rate
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on January 09, 2015, 09:51:07 AM
Looks like I just missed the low yesterday, 2.5% with $3800 in credit, could've gotten a nice chunk of change left after closing.  Today is only with $1800 credit.

Lock today!  10 year down to 1.95!

Hmmm, so come Monday we might see a dip?  My lender said Chase re-prices rates only once a day in the morning and is reflected the following business day after a market dip. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on January 09, 2015, 11:29:24 AM
Looks like I just missed the low yesterday, 2.5% with $3800 in credit, could've gotten a nice chunk of change left after closing.  Today is only with $1800 credit.

Lock today!  10 year down to 1.95!

Hmmm, so come Monday we might see a dip?  My lender said Chase re-prices rates only once a day in the morning and is reflected the following business day after a market dip.

Just call him today and see where you are at.  Monday may be a bounce back day.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: eyephone on January 09, 2015, 12:53:17 PM
Looks like I just missed the low yesterday, 2.5% with $3800 in credit, could've gotten a nice chunk of change left after closing.  Today is only with $1800 credit.

Lock today!  10 year down to 1.95!
where?  i can't find that info

10 year treasury rate - yahoo finance
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on January 09, 2015, 05:11:56 PM
10y - indicator only.
Mortgage Backed Securities (MBS) - reality.

Plenty of times the 10y stayed stable, while MBS's rose radically or dropped drastically same trading day.

As for Chase re-pricing a day later... pfffft. Everyone changes pricing daily if the MBS swings warrant it.

The big news is the FHA MMI changes. If the refi houses were just ramping up on Conventional volume, the FHA refi volume will clog most companies pipelines. Be sure to take the 60 day lock OR ask what the lenders rate extension policies are. Most banks (not all) will extend for free if your loan is delayed by the bank. Most mortgage bankers and brokers? Need to get the policy it in writing.

See that Impac is buying CashCall?  CC had their share of difficulties over the past 12 months.

My .02c
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: i1 on January 09, 2015, 07:40:32 PM
a
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on January 11, 2015, 10:18:11 PM
So got a request for another 2 letters of explanations from the underwriter before they approve the loan.  That's 7 letters of explanations.  haha  Looking to close on the refi at the end of this week and if rates fall a bit more Alyson said I'd get half of the additional savings. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on January 12, 2015, 08:54:18 AM
So got a request for another 2 letters of explanations from the underwriter before they approve the loan.  That's 7 letters of explanations.  haha  Looking to close on the refi at the end of this week and if rates fall a bit more Alyson said I'd get half of the additional savings.

I went through heck and back for a refinancing attempt and finally dropped it because it dragged on too long.  I can see being careful with a purchase loan but it makes little sense with a refinancing loan where there is a history of payment and the payments are lower.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: paperboyNC on January 12, 2015, 03:38:51 PM
I went through heck and back for a refinancing attempt and finally dropped it because it dragged on too long.  I can see being careful with a purchase loan but it makes little sense with a refinancing loan where there is a history of payment and the payments are lower.

Same here. Lost around $500 paying for an appraisal :(
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: eyephone on January 12, 2015, 03:59:07 PM
Just curious - they asked questions regarding 1099 income and letter of explanations were not sufficient?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on January 12, 2015, 04:24:06 PM
This could be interesting:

Quote
Starting Jan. 26, Fannie Mae plans to offer mortgage lenders access to proprietary home valuation databases that they can use to assess the accuracy of and risks posed by the reports submitted by appraisers. The Fannie data will flag possible errors in the appraiser's work before the lender commits to fund the loan, score the appraisal for overall risk of inaccuracy and may provide as many as 20 alternative "comps" — properties in the area that have sold recently and are roughly comparable to the house the lender is considering approving for financing but were not used by the appraiser.

Lenders can then forward Fannie's alternative comps and risk scores to the appraiser or the management company that hired the appraiser requesting explanations and changes to the appraisal.

http://www.latimes.com/business/realestate/la-fi-harney-20150111-story.html

I had my issues with appraisers and with Frank-Dodd...their estimate is basically unchallengable.  I like the concept but I feel like the new system is going to cause appraisal value to be lower...and increased fees.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on January 12, 2015, 04:34:29 PM
Just curious - they asked questions regarding 1099 income and letter of explanations were not sufficient?
I can't speak to the experience that anyone else had but I'm not a vanilla borrower.  I have income coming from a handful of sources (1099, rental, trading, CPA work, etc) so underwriter wanted to get a firm understanding of every source of income along with fully documenting the home that I bought in Vegas for my dad the middle of last year.  I think it's basically a CYA for the underwriter and make the file as clean as possible. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on January 12, 2015, 04:43:28 PM
So got a request for another 2 letters of explanations from the underwriter before they approve the loan.  That's 7 letters of explanations.  haha  Looking to close on the refi at the end of this week and if rates fall a bit more Alyson said I'd get half of the additional savings.

I went through heck and back for a refinancing attempt and finally dropped it because it dragged on too long.  I can see being careful with a purchase loan but it makes little sense with a refinancing loan where there is a history of payment and the payments are lower.

Easy for us to say since we are the ones taking their money. How much due diligence would you do on someone who you were going to lend $500,000 to?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on January 12, 2015, 04:51:30 PM
So got a request for another 2 letters of explanations from the underwriter before they approve the loan.  That's 7 letters of explanations.  haha  Looking to close on the refi at the end of this week and if rates fall a bit more Alyson said I'd get half of the additional savings.

I went through heck and back for a refinancing attempt and finally dropped it because it dragged on too long.  I can see being careful with a purchase loan but it makes little sense with a refinancing loan where there is a history of payment and the payments are lower.

Easy for us to say since we are the ones taking their money. How much due diligence would you do on someone who you were going to lend $500,000 to?
Not as much as they did with me for them to lend me less than 50% of the value of the home.  haha
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on January 12, 2015, 04:59:49 PM
So got a request for another 2 letters of explanations from the underwriter before they approve the loan.  That's 7 letters of explanations.  haha  Looking to close on the refi at the end of this week and if rates fall a bit more Alyson said I'd get half of the additional savings.

I went through heck and back for a refinancing attempt and finally dropped it because it dragged on too long.  I can see being careful with a purchase loan but it makes little sense with a refinancing loan where there is a history of payment and the payments are lower.

Easy for us to say since we are the ones taking their money. How much due diligence would you do on someone who you were going to lend $500,000 to?

Sure...but they're not lending based upon my word...the debt is secured.  It's the same reason why business/commercial lending has be reduced. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on January 12, 2015, 05:48:36 PM
I know the debt is secured but they still take the risk, your property value can plummet and they get stuck holding the bag.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on January 13, 2015, 12:49:00 PM
Refi loan approved and in the queue for loan docs.  They should get to escrow by EOD Wednesday and we should fund/close by Friday. 

Where we having the 5-year ARM refi party?  ;D
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: rkp on January 13, 2015, 02:05:17 PM
locked a jumbo 30 year fixed for 3.625 with 1 free relock if rate drops at watermark.  this is what they offered me today:

3.5% 30 day - $946 credit
3.5% 45 day - $2275 cost
3.625 30 day - $5077 credit
3.625 45 day - $2802 credit <-- took this one

Appraiser came out next day and completed appraisal today.  Also they use docmagic so signing all the documents took about 15 minutes vs hours previously spent.  So far nothing but good things to say about them.  I referred over two friends who are experiencing similar.

With rates dropping, my loan officer thinks I might be able to re-lock in at 3.5%! Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: The California Court Company on January 14, 2015, 01:41:41 PM
Cardinal/Sebonic financial that we are working with for refi is dropping the ball; they denied my loan due to a very correctable mistake from a 3rd party, but failed to notify me until I called to check the status and found out the mistake. I am working feverishly to get the mistake corrected and get my loan back on track but the rate lock window is fast approaching. Hopefully I can get this resolved in time; what happens if the rate lock expires and we cannot close? if the new rate is lower than our locked rate (current rate is), get the new rate, otherwise, ask for an extension?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on January 14, 2015, 02:23:43 PM
Cardinal/Sebonic financial that we are working with for refi is dropping the ball; they denied my loan due to a very correctable mistake from a 3rd party, but failed to notify me until I called to check the status and found out the mistake. I am working feverishly to get the mistake corrected and get my loan back on track but the rate lock window is fast approaching. Hopefully I can get this resolved in time; what happens if the rate lock expires and we cannot close? if the new rate is lower than our locked rate (current rate is), get the new rate, otherwise, ask for an extension?

You can ask for an extension but it costs money.  You can go to another broker as long as you are not trying to get a loan from the same lender.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: The California Court Company on January 14, 2015, 02:34:15 PM
the lender should cover the extension for free; they did not notify me that the loan is being denied when there was ample time to fix the mistake. Perhaps I should start thinking about small claim lawsuit to get my appraisal fee back?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: rkp on January 14, 2015, 02:51:11 PM
What does the loan officer say?  If new rate is lower than old rate, why not just open a new lock or will they not do that?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvine Dream on January 14, 2015, 02:57:34 PM
the lender should cover the extension for free; they did not notify me that the loan is being denied when there was ample time to fix the mistake. Perhaps I should start thinking about small claim lawsuit to get my appraisal fee back?

Usually the lender may indicate a higher rate or ask for an extension fee but when you refuse they will close per original terms
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: The California Court Company on January 14, 2015, 04:12:24 PM
got the 3rd party to correct their error in writing however the explanation is not very detailed. now let's see how Sebonic/Cardinal is responding. I am ready to raise hell and file small claim suits.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on January 14, 2015, 04:17:42 PM
Most companies will extend for no cost in cases like this. The good news is that if they don't there are many other companies willing and able to get this done for you - perhaps even by covering your cost of the appraisal fee at the other lender.

Raise hell, but then lie down for a bit and let the fever pass. One ball gets dropped, and another will gladly pick it up from that point.

My .02c

Soylent Green Is People.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: eyephone on January 14, 2015, 04:59:03 PM
The 10 year bond is dropping.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: zubs on January 15, 2015, 12:06:21 PM
I like how SGIP doesn't say "Drop your current guy and USE ME!"...but subtly pushes the reader toward himself.  So nuanced.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: The California Court Company on January 15, 2015, 12:57:57 PM
 ;)

I like how SGIP doesn't say "Drop your current guy and USE ME!"...but subtly pushes the reader toward himself.  So nuanced.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on January 15, 2015, 01:30:58 PM
Locked at 2.5% with about 3000 credit.  Have some pocket change at closing.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: 8porkchop on January 15, 2015, 01:54:30 PM
2.5%? and for how many years is that? 5/1 or 7/1? That's great. I locked last month 3.875 and I am hoping to float down to a lower rate.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvine Dream on January 15, 2015, 02:12:11 PM
Locked at 2.5% with about 3000 credit.  Have some pocket change at closing.
Could you tell us where to get these super rates?  I am too lazy to use the Search function, even if I try by the time I find it the rate might be gone.  thanks.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: bones on January 15, 2015, 02:19:16 PM
Locked at 2.5% with about 3000 credit.  Have some pocket change at closing.

Congrats. I ended up with about a week's worth of prepaid ren dinners after my last refi.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Homer_Simpson on January 15, 2015, 02:22:31 PM
locked at 2.5 as well.. .thanks for the referral guys  8)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: rkp on January 15, 2015, 02:40:07 PM
is the delta between a 7/1 ARM and 30y fixed pretty consistent?  since i started tracking it, it seems like its about a 1% interest rate savings which is about $50 a month per 100K borrowed. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvine Dream on January 15, 2015, 02:45:12 PM
locked at 2.5 as well.. .thanks for the referral guys  8)

Can you give me the info too? thanks.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on January 15, 2015, 03:19:12 PM
2.5%? and for how many years is that? 5/1 or 7/1? That's great. I locked last month 3.875 and I am hoping to float down to a lower rate.

5/1 Jumbo, 55% LTV, credit is around $3200, gonna use the leftover for my samsung 4k :)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: The California Court Company on January 15, 2015, 03:55:32 PM
wow what a turnaround of events.

yesterday morning I was led to believe a good chance the loan is dead. then I found the 3rd party mistake, got the correction and submitted it to the lender in the afternoon.

Just 1 hour ago got words the loan is now approved and it is time to pick closing dates.

Gotta give Cardinal/Sebonic credits for moving this fast.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on January 15, 2015, 04:23:34 PM
Almost regretting that I refinanced...Europe is apparently melting down and everyone wants US T-bills.

10 year yield down to 1.71 with 30 year fixed rates at 3.60.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on January 15, 2015, 04:31:01 PM
Almost regretting that I refinanced...Europe is apparently melting down and everyone wants US T-bills.

10 year yield down to 1.71 with 30 year fixed rates at 3.60.

im getting the pricing tomorrow morning, the loan rep said the rate could be better than 2.5% with closing costs covered.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: The California Court Company on January 15, 2015, 05:12:44 PM
I believe some lenders can start refi-ing right after you close. Just do it again?

Almost regretting that I refinanced...Europe is apparently melting down and everyone wants US T-bills.

10 year yield down to 1.71 with 30 year fixed rates at 3.60.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: The California Court Company on January 15, 2015, 11:26:03 PM
and then there is a plot twist. Just realized they fat fingered my settlement statement (estimate, I hope).
They have an extra $100k (yes one hundred grand) in my existing loan balance so I need to prepare extra $100k in cash. I am not farmie nor qwerty so I cannot just ignore $100k.
Time to wake up early tomorrow to check with these East coast people. maybe I should just walk away...

wow what a turnaround of events.

yesterday morning I was led to believe a good chance the loan is dead. then I found the 3rd party mistake, got the correction and submitted it to the lender in the afternoon.

Just 1 hour ago got words the loan is now approved and it is time to pick closing dates.

Gotta give Cardinal/Sebonic credits for moving this fast.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: eyephone on January 16, 2015, 04:38:58 AM
Almost regretting that I refinanced...Europe is apparently melting down and everyone wants US T-bills.

10 year yield down to 1.71 with 30 year fixed rates at 3.60.

Hip-hop-hurray!!! 

The Euro area is a mess!

#socialismneverworks

Aka benefits for free
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: rkp on January 16, 2015, 07:07:34 AM
and then there is a plot twist. Just realized they fat fingered my settlement statement (estimate, I hope).
They have an extra $100k (yes one hundred grand) in my existing loan balance so I need to prepare extra $100k in cash. I am not farmie nor qwerty so I cannot just ignore $100k.
Time to wake up early tomorrow to check with these East coast people. maybe I should just walk away...

wow what a turnaround of events.

yesterday morning I was led to believe a good chance the loan is dead. then I found the 3rd party mistake, got the correction and submitted it to the lender in the afternoon.

Just 1 hour ago got words the loan is now approved and it is time to pick closing dates.

Gotta give Cardinal/Sebonic credits for moving this fast.

they thought you need $100K less loan than you really need or giving you a loan $100K over what you need?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on January 16, 2015, 07:59:08 AM
and then there is a plot twist. Just realized they fat fingered my settlement statement (estimate, I hope).
They have an extra $100k (yes one hundred grand) in my existing loan balance so I need to prepare extra $100k in cash. I am not farmie nor qwerty so I cannot just ignore $100k.
Time to wake up early tomorrow to check with these East coast people. maybe I should just walk away...

wow what a turnaround of events.

yesterday morning I was led to believe a good chance the loan is dead. then I found the 3rd party mistake, got the correction and submitted it to the lender in the afternoon.

Just 1 hour ago got words the loan is now approved and it is time to pick closing dates.

Gotta give Cardinal/Sebonic credits for moving this fast.

this is based off the payoff demand from your current bank, check with them as well, you should get a copy of the demand from your broker. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: The California Court Company on January 16, 2015, 10:41:17 AM
We are paying back some principal, and we should pay about $80k at closing. Their calculation had $100k more on my existing loan balance,  so we were to pay $180k at closing....the loan amount with them has been correct.

and then there is a plot twist. Just realized they fat fingered my settlement statement (estimate, I hope).
They have an extra $100k (yes one hundred grand) in my existing loan balance so I need to prepare extra $100k in cash. I am not farmie nor qwerty so I cannot just ignore $100k.
Time to wake up early tomorrow to check with these East coast people. maybe I should just walk away...

wow what a turnaround of events.

yesterday morning I was led to believe a good chance the loan is dead. then I found the 3rd party mistake, got the correction and submitted it to the lender in the afternoon.

Just 1 hour ago got words the loan is now approved and it is time to pick closing dates.

Gotta give Cardinal/Sebonic credits for moving this fast.

they thought you need $100K less loan than you really need or giving you a loan $100K over what you need?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: The California Court Company on January 16, 2015, 10:46:09 AM
Yes. I've seen the payoff demand from my current bank. There is no prepayment penalty and they charge $39 for recording and obligation fee. certainly not $100k.

and then there is a plot twist. Just realized they fat fingered my settlement statement (estimate, I hope).
They have an extra $100k (yes one hundred grand) in my existing loan balance so I need to prepare extra $100k in cash. I am not farmie nor qwerty so I cannot just ignore $100k.
Time to wake up early tomorrow to check with these East coast people. maybe I should just walk away...

wow what a turnaround of events.

yesterday morning I was led to believe a good chance the loan is dead. then I found the 3rd party mistake, got the correction and submitted it to the lender in the afternoon.

Just 1 hour ago got words the loan is now approved and it is time to pick closing dates.

Gotta give Cardinal/Sebonic credits for moving this fast.

this is based off the payoff demand from your current bank, check with them as well, you should get a copy of the demand from your broker.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: eyephone on January 16, 2015, 10:56:26 AM
Maybe a fat finger typo? They typed an extra one in front of the 8.

On a totally different note, that's why I ask for a credit card receipt when I use my credit card. They can type an extra zero to the amount. #fatfinger

We are paying back some principal, and we should pay about $80k at closing. Their calculation had $100k more on my existing loan balance,  so we were to pay $180k at closing....the loan amount with them has been correct.

and then there is a plot twist. Just realized they fat fingered my settlement statement (estimate, I hope).
They have an extra $100k (yes one hundred grand) in my existing loan balance so I need to prepare extra $100k in cash. I am not farmie nor qwerty so I cannot just ignore $100k.
Time to wake up early tomorrow to check with these East coast people. maybe I should just walk away...

wow what a turnaround of events.

yesterday morning I was led to believe a good chance the loan is dead. then I found the 3rd party mistake, got the correction and submitted it to the lender in the afternoon.

Just 1 hour ago got words the loan is now approved and it is time to pick closing dates.

Gotta give Cardinal/Sebonic credits for moving this fast.

they thought you need $100K less loan than you really need or giving you a loan $100K over what you need?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on January 16, 2015, 12:33:41 PM
My refi loan funded today.  :D
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on January 16, 2015, 01:01:09 PM
Almost regretting that I refinanced...Europe is apparently melting down and everyone wants US T-bills.

10 year yield down to 1.71 with 30 year fixed rates at 3.60.

Hip-hop-hurray!!! 

The Euro area is a mess!

#socialismneverworks

Aka benefits for free

And yet Germany is chugging along nicely...as is England. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: The California Court Company on January 16, 2015, 01:02:29 PM
rates are climbing. The last couple of days were the lows.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on January 16, 2015, 01:19:53 PM
Almost regretting that I refinanced...Europe is apparently melting down and everyone wants US T-bills.

10 year yield down to 1.71 with 30 year fixed rates at 3.60.

im getting the pricing tomorrow morning, the loan rep said the rate could be better than 2.5% with closing costs covered.

Any luck?  My recent experience is lock at the end of a two day Dow tailspin which would've been yesterday.  2.375% at no cost hasn't been achieved in awhile per broker.  We've been close but it will cost about a $1000 to close.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on January 16, 2015, 01:43:37 PM
A Job 1:21 day... The Lord gives, the Lord taketh away... blessed be the name of the Lord.

Most lenders repriced for the worse this AM, with a follow up mid day. Much of today's price action is more of an issue with the mortgage market getting ahead of itself (2 solid days of improvements), as well as the looming weekend, where tape bombs other uncontrolled events can move markets.

Monday should be interesting to see if the trend lower continues or if we've reached a near term bottom.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on January 16, 2015, 02:33:16 PM
Almost regretting that I refinanced...Europe is apparently melting down and everyone wants US T-bills.

10 year yield down to 1.71 with 30 year fixed rates at 3.60.

im getting the pricing tomorrow morning, the loan rep said the rate could be better than 2.5% with closing costs covered.

Any luck?  My recent experience is lock at the end of a two day Dow tailspin which would've been yesterday.  2.375% at no cost hasn't been achieved in awhile per broker.  We've been close but it will cost about a $1000 to close.

No luck. Came back at 2.75 with a 2200 credit. So no go.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: The California Court Company on January 16, 2015, 04:29:56 PM
So the mortgage rate went up despite Swiss central bank's bomb.

For the last year, Euro against USD is declining steadily, which kind of mirrors the general trend of US 30 year fixed mortgage rate.

Not sure what we will see next week. ECB may announce a new QE program.

It gets even better after that. Greece may drop another bomb soon after the ECB meeting.

I believe we are in a fun ride.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on January 16, 2015, 05:24:57 PM
Almost regretting that I refinanced...Europe is apparently melting down and everyone wants US T-bills.

10 year yield down to 1.71 with 30 year fixed rates at 3.60.

im getting the pricing tomorrow morning, the loan rep said the rate could be better than 2.5% with closing costs covered.

Any luck?  My recent experience is lock at the end of a two day Dow tailspin which would've been yesterday.  2.375% at no cost hasn't been achieved in awhile per broker.  We've been close but it will cost about a $1000 to close.

No luck. Came back at 2.75 with a 2200 credit. So no go.

Sorry to hear, always try next week, I believe last week I could've locked with even more credit than $3200 at 2.5%.  I'm happy I bottom ticked yesterday, though in this market who knows.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: qwerty on January 16, 2015, 05:34:29 PM
Even if I can't get lower than 2.75, at the one year mark I would refi again at 2.75 with no closing costs (if available) to reset the 5 year clock.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on January 16, 2015, 05:51:30 PM
The fun is not over with Europe, we'll get more chances to refi at 2.50% or lower.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: The California Court Company on January 16, 2015, 06:04:23 PM
I am waiting for more bombs from Europe and hoping we can reach the lows like in the end of 2012. Somehow I am becoming an addict to refi's, thanks to you guys.

The fun is not over with Europe, we'll get more chances to refi at 2.50% or lower.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: eyephone on January 16, 2015, 06:14:50 PM
Also, it's earnings season on Wall St. So far it's not looking good.

I am waiting for more bombs from Europe and hoping we can reach the lows like in the end of 2012. Somehow I am becoming an addict to refi's, thanks to you guys.

The fun is not over with Europe, we'll get more chances to refi at 2.50% or lower.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: tooslow4u on January 19, 2015, 10:26:22 AM
how are rates looking for this week??
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: The California Court Company on January 19, 2015, 10:33:43 AM
today it looks like the same or slightly better than last Friday.

how are rates looking for this week??
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on January 19, 2015, 01:37:47 PM
Banks are closed for MLK Day. Best time to check on Monday's rates: Bloomberg, US Futures, around 8-9:00 PM.

My .02c
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Chairman on January 20, 2015, 10:22:33 AM
USGG10YR @ 1.7880%
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on January 20, 2015, 10:56:35 AM
USGG10YR @ 1.7880%
Yeah but how are the MBS bonds doing?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: The California Court Company on January 21, 2015, 08:45:20 AM
ECB proposes 1.1 trillion Euro QE. more than double of previous expert consensus. Canada's central bank just cuts its rates. It looks like everywhere else is heading for a deflation, while US is relatively the strongest economy of them all. Let's hope the money keep pouring in to US stock and more importantly, US MBS
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: eyephone on January 21, 2015, 08:47:19 AM
ECB proposes 1.1 trillion Euro QE. more than double of previous expert consensus. Canada's central bank just cuts its rates. It looks like everywhere else is heading for a deflation, while US is relatively the strongest economy of them all. Let's hope the money keep pouring in to US stock and more importantly, US MBS

Hmm-if the US stocks go up doesn't the 10 year bond go up also? Therefore interest rate will rise.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on January 21, 2015, 08:48:20 AM
ECB proposes 1.1 trillion Euro QE. more than double of previous expert consensus. Canada's central bank just cuts its rates. It looks like everywhere else is heading for a deflation, while US is relatively the strongest economy of them all. Let's hope the money keep pouring in to US stock and more importantly, US MBS

It's funny how people were screaming about QE being terrible...looks like everyone else finally caught on and the US Fed was about 3 years ahead of the curve.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on January 21, 2015, 08:51:05 AM
Wonky-ish article on disconnect between Treasuries and MBS prices.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-01-21/mortgage-bond-spreads-widen-to-three-month-high-on-refinancing.html (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-01-21/mortgage-bond-spreads-widen-to-three-month-high-on-refinancing.html)

My 2/32nds

SGIP
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on January 21, 2015, 08:51:52 AM
ECB proposes 1.1 trillion Euro QE. more than double of previous expert consensus. Canada's central bank just cuts its rates. It looks like everywhere else is heading for a deflation, while US is relatively the strongest economy of them all. Let's hope the money keep pouring in to US stock and more importantly, US MBS

Also, hope people buy US treasuries drive the rate lower.

MBS is more important/directly tied to mortgage rates.  10 year treasury yields are indicative of lower rates but not always...yesterday for example, rates were mixed while the yield was way down
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on January 21, 2015, 08:52:45 AM
Wonky-ish article on disconnect between Treasuries and MBS prices.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-01-21/mortgage-bond-spreads-widen-to-three-month-high-on-refinancing.html (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-01-21/mortgage-bond-spreads-widen-to-three-month-high-on-refinancing.html)

My 2/32nds

SGIP

At some point, that spread has to narrow right?  Of course, there is probably a bottom in which lenders won't go any lower.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: eyephone on January 21, 2015, 09:10:49 AM
Re: treasury and mortgage rates

"Yields on 10-year and 30-year Treasury securities are typically used to set long-term mortgage rates. Loans with short initial terms (1-, 3-, and 5- year ARMs, e.g.) are pegged to shorter-term securities. So when bond yields drop, typically, conventional mortgage rates fall as well (see historical graph below). Conversely, when yields rise, so do mortgage rates. Why? If a lender chooses to sell your mortgage loan to an investor, the lender will likely use Treasury yields as a benchmark for value."

Source: http://mortgage-x.com/general/treasury.asp

Click the link for the graphs



Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: eyephone on January 21, 2015, 09:13:47 AM
ECB proposes 1.1 trillion Euro QE. more than double of previous expert consensus. Canada's central bank just cuts its rates. It looks like everywhere else is heading for a deflation, while US is relatively the strongest economy of them all. Let's hope the money keep pouring in to US stock and more importantly, US MBS

Also, hope people buy US treasuries drive the rate lower.

MBS is more important/directly tied to mortgage rates.  10 year treasury yields are indicative of lower rates but not always...yesterday for example, rates were mixed while the yield was way down

FYI - I modified my statement. See above for modified statement.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on January 21, 2015, 09:18:20 AM
ECB proposes 1.1 trillion Euro QE. more than double of previous expert consensus. Canada's central bank just cuts its rates. It looks like everywhere else is heading for a deflation, while US is relatively the strongest economy of them all. Let's hope the money keep pouring in to US stock and more importantly, US MBS

Hmm-if the US stocks go up doesn't the 10 year bond go up also? Therefore interest rate will rise.

Stocks and bonds are usually inversely related but if the US is the only safe market to invest...both could do well.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on January 21, 2015, 10:36:41 AM
Eyephone - the 10yr is a "benchmark" but not tied directly to the street price of a loan. Most investors would rather purchase a guaranteed rate from the UST than a possible loser of a MBS. MBS's then have price incentives relative to UST's to attract investors in those MBS's.

As UST's plunge also, many banks see accellerated prepayments of older MBS's (AKA Pipeline Runoff) which the banks will do all they can to prevent. This is why we're not seeing 3.5% on average 30 fixed rates today, even with the lower rates experienced in the UST market. The runoff is being artificially stemmed by the servicing banks as best as they can by witholding market pricing to the consumer. Cartel-ish? You betcha!
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: The California Court Company on January 21, 2015, 02:54:55 PM
http://www.cnbc.com/id/102356672

this guy predicted 10 year T yield below 2% in last August, and is now calling it to hit 1.5%
let's certainly hope he is right again, and of course MBS yield will also track 10 year T yield eventually
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Chairman on January 21, 2015, 04:03:44 PM
Is there a specific mbs bond I should be looking at on Bloomberg? Pools or TBAs?

USGG10YR @ 1.7880%
Yeah but how are the MBS bonds doing?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Chairman on January 21, 2015, 04:07:26 PM
ECB proposes 1.1 trillion Euro QE. more than double of previous expert consensus. Canada's central bank just cuts its rates. It looks like everywhere else is heading for a deflation, while US is relatively the strongest economy of them all. Let's hope the money keep pouring in to US stock and more importantly, US MBS

Hmm-if the US stocks go up doesn't the 10 year bond go up also? Therefore interest rate will rise.

Stocks go up when when risk is on and US Tsy yields are low yielding. If there is an event that causes uncertainty there is typically a flight to quality and people pile into Tsys, driving yields down.

Bond prices and interest rates are inversely related. If the 10 year bond goes up, rates go down.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Chairman on January 21, 2015, 04:17:55 PM
Eyephone - the 10yr is a "benchmark" but not tied directly to the street price of a loan. Most investors would rather purchase a guaranteed rate from the UST than a possible loser of a MBS. MBS's then have price incentives relative to UST's to attract investors in those MBS's.

As UST's plunge also, many banks see accellerated prepayments of older MBS's (AKA Pipeline Runoff) which the banks will do all they can to prevent. This is why we're not seeing 3.5% on average 30 fixed rates today, even with the lower rates experienced in the UST market. The runoff is being artificially stemmed by the servicing banks as best as they can by witholding market pricing to the consumer. Cartel-ish? You betcha!

Also known as contraction risk in MBS space. Since all these MBS are being paid down, investors that get their money back can only rebuy newly issued MBS at lower rates which would lead to less demand which is keeping interest rates from going down further.

Definition: Contraction risk is a component of prepayment risk that increases as interest rates decline. This is because a decline in rates may create an incentive for the borrower to prepay all or part of the outstanding debt, which results in the life of the debt instrument being reduced. As interest rates decrease, the likelihood of prepayment increases.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on January 21, 2015, 04:51:37 PM
Eyephone - the 10yr is a "benchmark" but not tied directly to the street price of a loan. Most investors would rather purchase a guaranteed rate from the UST than a possible loser of a MBS. MBS's then have price incentives relative to UST's to attract investors in those MBS's.

As UST's plunge also, many banks see accellerated prepayments of older MBS's (AKA Pipeline Runoff) which the banks will do all they can to prevent. This is why we're not seeing 3.5% on average 30 fixed rates today, even with the lower rates experienced in the UST market. The runoff is being artificially stemmed by the servicing banks as best as they can by witholding market pricing to the consumer. Cartel-ish? You betcha!

Also known as contraction risk in MBS space. Since all these MBS are being paid down, investors that get their money back can only rebuy newly issued MBS at lower rates which would lead to less demand which is keeping interest rates from going down further.

Definition: Contraction risk is a component of prepayment risk that increases as interest rates decline. This is because a decline in rates may create an incentive for the borrower to prepay all or part of the outstanding debt, which results in the life of the debt instrument being reduced. As interest rates decrease, the likelihood of prepayment increases.

I am also curious if lenders are going to stretch out the refinancing period...I was told that I can't refinance for 6 payments...that seems like a very long time.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: The California Court Company on January 21, 2015, 05:22:33 PM
Same lender for refi?

Eyephone - the 10yr is a "benchmark" but not tied directly to the street price of a loan. Most investors would rather purchase a guaranteed rate from the UST than a possible loser of a MBS. MBS's then have price incentives relative to UST's to attract investors in those MBS's.

As UST's plunge also, many banks see accellerated prepayments of older MBS's (AKA Pipeline Runoff) which the banks will do all they can to prevent. This is why we're not seeing 3.5% on average 30 fixed rates today, even with the lower rates experienced in the UST market. The runoff is being artificially stemmed by the servicing banks as best as they can by witholding market pricing to the consumer. Cartel-ish? You betcha!

Also known as contraction risk in MBS space. Since all these MBS are being paid down, investors that get their money back can only rebuy newly issued MBS at lower rates which would lead to less demand which is keeping interest rates from going down further.

Definition: Contraction risk is a component of prepayment risk that increases as interest rates decline. This is because a decline in rates may create an incentive for the borrower to prepay all or part of the outstanding debt, which results in the life of the debt instrument being reduced. As interest rates decrease, the likelihood of prepayment increases.

I am also curious if lenders are going to stretch out the refinancing period...I was told that I can't refinance for 6 payments...that seems like a very long time.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on January 21, 2015, 05:28:16 PM
If rates are favorable, you can refinance 1 week after closing on your last refi. The opportunity to do so doesn't come along very often, but as rates suddenly torque lower, many borrowers will give it a go.

 Two pieces to this:

1) In order to refinance there has to be a "tangible benefit to borrower" and most lenders have to see .125% or a certain monthly payment savings in order to justify the refinance going through. Churning is frowned on by lenders for a great host of reasons which is why benefit to borrower exists.

2) Now why everyone's being told they can't refi for 90-150 days:

Mortgage Banker A gives you a very good rate and "no closing costs". Those fees had to be paid by someone. In this case it's the Investor B willing to buy the loan from Mortgage Banker A. Your $400k loan cost about $3,000 in hard costs and $1000 in commissions. There's also about $3,000 being kept by the loan broker owning the place. Let's work with $7k in payments by Investor B to Mortgage Banker A. 

Bank C gives you a better rate 1 week after you close your loan with Mortgage Banker A. You close in 45 days.

Mortgage Banker A get's a phone call from Investor B asking for their $7,000 back. Their investment value was vaporized by Bank C's refinance. That $7k doesn't all come from the owner of the mortgage bank, but clawed back sometimes from the manager, loan officer, and others involved. Much tears. Very money.

Bank C will have a somewhat similar policy. Most of the majors will allow employees to flip a borrower within 90 days, but they won't pay the loan officer when it's done. There isn't any $$$ in the deal. Banks sell loans to investors (retaining the servicing though) so the $$$ loss isn't so hard.

Should you refinance 30 - 60 days after your last refi or purchase? Why not?  "It's not personal, just business....". 

My .02c

Soylent Green Is People.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: rkp on January 21, 2015, 05:56:09 PM
SGIP - why don't all loans just have an 6 month early payoff penalty which would protect lenders from serial refinancing?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on January 21, 2015, 06:43:20 PM
Because we're not N. Korea
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on January 21, 2015, 07:30:47 PM
RKP - the payback to the investor might be longer than 3 months, 9 months, etc. It's also not in the better interests of the consumer or the banks that want to attract both the loan and the borrowers deposits.

Anti-Churning rules have stopped many of the abuses that took place in the 2005-2008 time period. People would play musical chairs with their refi business, then when the tune stopped, we know now what kind of problems that behaviour caused. ( example: I knew of an Accountant in Huntington Beach area who would spin his $900k Neg Am 1.0% rate ARM loan every 90 days, barely making a house payment until he had to... then the SHTF for him. How'd you like THAT guy handling your financials! )

I'm A-OK with Anti-Churning rules. There should be a realistic benefit to borrower when the deal is done. Most readers here know there has to be a compelling reason to refi, but for others out there, predatory LO's still swim these waters, restrained only by the sort of consumer protections put in place over the past few years.  As for a blanket 6-9 month prepayment penalty? Not a great idea.

My .02c
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on January 27, 2015, 06:40:54 AM
MBS going up, so mortgage rates going down today?  If you haven't locked yet, I would watch carefully the next few days.  If we take a tumble today and tomorrow, good time to lock.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on January 27, 2015, 06:57:29 AM
Just got the appraisal done and going with USCtrojans rec on escrow.  Should be another slam dunk, but my FICO has been taking a hit with all these hard inquiries, might take a pause after this.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on January 27, 2015, 08:01:19 AM
(http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/Ps99472/IO_zps8e16a8b2.jpg)

Got this in the mail from MorganStanley, so a 10 yr interest only mortgage that can adjust monthly on LIBOR rates.  After 10 years, its 15 years of P&I payments.  I'm actually considering this... pros cons?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on January 27, 2015, 08:40:42 AM
1st con is you are not paying down your principal.

This was the main issue with the OptionARMs during the 90's and oughts.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on January 27, 2015, 08:46:16 AM
Since you are paying less interest, more can be funneled into principal payments.  That's what I'm thinking.  Yes dangerous for people not financially mature, or stretching their budget to afford a home price out of their range, but if you have the funds to pay your principal down to zero, shouldn't the lowest interest/month product be first choice?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: bones on January 27, 2015, 08:56:06 AM
IO loans are popular with the finance set that get a lot of income from YE bonuses.  Smaller monthly interest only payments during the year and then they take a portion of their huge bonus to pay down the principal once a year.  I say do it if you're interested.  What's the worst that can happen?  You refi again?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: The California Court Company on January 27, 2015, 09:13:30 AM
I rather lock in as low as interest rate as possible, then doing potentially infinite refis as the interest rate resets. Obviously when the music chair stops, you can pay down the principal all at once. But then a lot of money is tied to the house.

Since you are paying less interest, more can be funneled into principal payments.  That's what I'm thinking.  Yes dangerous for people not financially mature, or stretching their budget to afford a home price out of their range, but if you have the funds to pay your principal down to zero, shouldn't the lowest interest/month product be first choice?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on January 27, 2015, 09:27:14 AM
2nd con is if for some reason the LIBOR jumps above 4% (unlikely but possible).

Is there a prepayment penalty?

For someone like ps9 who can manage their funds, this is probably a good match, and for anyone who may sell before the 10 years are up.

I wonder how stringent the qual process is.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: The California Court Company on January 27, 2015, 09:34:54 AM
that's my point. When LIBOR jumps, you can pay back the principal but a lot of money will be in the house. At that point you better wish the house will appreciate faster than other investment vehicles.

locked in a cheaper rate also gives you flexibility.  you can turn the house into a rental and have tenants pay the mortgage for you. lower monthly payment = easier to break even.

2nd con is if for some reason the LIBOR jumps above 4% (unlikely but possible).

Is there a prepayment penalty?

For someone like ps9 who can manage their funds, this is probably a good match, and for anyone who may sell before the 10 years are up.

I wonder how stringent the qual process is.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on January 27, 2015, 09:57:19 AM
that's my point. When LIBOR jumps, you can pay back the principal but a lot of money will be in the house. At that point you better wish the house will appreciate faster than other investment vehicles.

locked in a cheaper rate also gives you flexibility.  you can turn the house into a rental and have tenants pay the mortgage for you. lower monthly payment = easier to break even.

2nd con is if for some reason the LIBOR jumps above 4% (unlikely but possible).

Is there a prepayment penalty?

For someone like ps9 who can manage their funds, this is probably a good match, and for anyone who may sell before the 10 years are up.

I wonder how stringent the qual process is.

A couple of thoughts

1)  I'm not as much of a gambler on rates as most others here.  With the rates so low, I think it makes a heck of a lot of sense to lock in the rates for the next 30 years and forget about it.  Yes, I can save some money in the short term but rates are very likely to go up in the next year or two...then I  have another 28 years to stress about.

2)  I think I/O and adjustable rate loan make a lot more sense for investment properties or if you are flipping homes.  For my primary residence, I will lock in the rate and know exactly much I need to allocate a month.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on January 27, 2015, 10:00:54 AM
A pro is obviously better cashflow.

The LIBOR rate is a strange index as it doesn't reflect US economy as much. Is it so low right now because of the turmoil in Europe? Do you expect it to stay that way for the next 10 years?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on January 27, 2015, 10:13:44 AM
I doubt I'll take it to the full 10 years, I'm thinking 1, 2 years tops.  Just for comparison to a 5/1 ARM at 2.5% versus this 1 month LIBOR ARM IO at 1.75%, if rates are stable I'll save about $400 per month in interest. 

Wanna take your monthly mortgage below a thousand?  Cheaper than Montessori :)
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: irvinehomeowner on January 27, 2015, 10:24:19 AM
Is this another 55% LTV loan?

Unlike you, my 99%er status has a much higher LTV but if you go first, tell me how the process is and I'll follow.

Even at IO, my mortgage will probably still be higher than TWO Montessori tuitions (thank goodness those days are over).
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: rkp on January 27, 2015, 10:28:34 AM
I doubt I'll take it to the full 10 years, I'm thinking 1, 2 years tops.  Just for comparison to a 5/1 ARM at 2.5% versus this 1 month LIBOR ARM IO at 1.75%, if rates are stable I'll save about $400 per month in interest. 

Wanna take your monthly mortgage below a thousand?  Cheaper than Montessori :)

5/1 ARM includes principal payments.  Your real savings is about $40 per month per $100K borrowed. 

I am with others.  For my primary, I want to be stress free.  For my investments, this makes a ton of sense.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on January 27, 2015, 10:30:35 AM
I'll look into it after my refi closes, the example loan in the pic I uploaded shows a 70% LTV, also need to factor in impounds, if any.  Probably have to add on closing fees, if you tack on a 1/4% to account for a no cost refi, will decrease monthly interest savings to about $275-300
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on January 27, 2015, 10:32:38 AM
I doubt I'll take it to the full 10 years, I'm thinking 1, 2 years tops.  Just for comparison to a 5/1 ARM at 2.5% versus this 1 month LIBOR ARM IO at 1.75%, if rates are stable I'll save about $400 per month in interest. 

Wanna take your monthly mortgage below a thousand?  Cheaper than Montessori :)

5/1 ARM includes principal payments.  Your real savings is about $40 per month per $100K borrowed. 

I am with others.  For my primary, I want to be stress free.  For my investments, this makes a ton of sense.

I just look at the interest part of my 5/1 ARM P&I payment.  Comparing apples to apples, right?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: rkp on January 27, 2015, 10:45:46 AM
I doubt I'll take it to the full 10 years, I'm thinking 1, 2 years tops.  Just for comparison to a 5/1 ARM at 2.5% versus this 1 month LIBOR ARM IO at 1.75%, if rates are stable I'll save about $400 per month in interest. 

Wanna take your monthly mortgage below a thousand?  Cheaper than Montessori :)

5/1 ARM includes principal payments.  Your real savings is about $40 per month per $100K borrowed. 

I am with others.  For my primary, I want to be stress free.  For my investments, this makes a ton of sense.

I just look at the interest part of my 5/1 ARM P&I payment.  Comparing apples to apples, right?

then you have a big loan :) with 55% LTV, you are def 1% :p
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on January 27, 2015, 12:17:51 PM
I doubt I'll take it to the full 10 years, I'm thinking 1, 2 years tops.  Just for comparison to a 5/1 ARM at 2.5% versus this 1 month LIBOR ARM IO at 1.75%, if rates are stable I'll save about $400 per month in interest. 

Wanna take your monthly mortgage below a thousand?  Cheaper than Montessori :)
What's the LIBOR margin on the 1-month LIBOR ARM IO loan?
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on January 27, 2015, 04:11:34 PM
I doubt I'll take it to the full 10 years, I'm thinking 1, 2 years tops.  Just for comparison to a 5/1 ARM at 2.5% versus this 1 month LIBOR ARM IO at 1.75%, if rates are stable I'll save about $400 per month in interest. 

Wanna take your monthly mortgage below a thousand?  Cheaper than Montessori :)
What's the LIBOR margin on the 1-month LIBOR ARM IO loan?

1.625%
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on January 27, 2015, 05:14:42 PM
I doubt I'll take it to the full 10 years, I'm thinking 1, 2 years tops.  Just for comparison to a 5/1 ARM at 2.5% versus this 1 month LIBOR ARM IO at 1.75%, if rates are stable I'll save about $400 per month in interest. 

Wanna take your monthly mortgage below a thousand?  Cheaper than Montessori :)
What's the LIBOR margin on the 1-month LIBOR ARM IO loan?

1.625%
Who offers that one?  Alyson?  If so, I'm all over it. 
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: The California Court Company on January 27, 2015, 05:32:42 PM
checked with the escrow company earlier this afternoon. loan was funded, old lender was paid off and recorded with county office. now my next adventure with Cardinal is to figure out who/where to pay my mortgage; they are selling my mortgage and I will have a different lender to pay back.

so Euro 1.1 billion QE did not do much to the rates. Greek anti austerity party victory did not either. Fingers crossed for the Fed statement tomorrow. Hopefully they don't drop a bomb that will negatively affect mortgage rates.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: ps9 on January 27, 2015, 05:41:13 PM
I doubt I'll take it to the full 10 years, I'm thinking 1, 2 years tops.  Just for comparison to a 5/1 ARM at 2.5% versus this 1 month LIBOR ARM IO at 1.75%, if rates are stable I'll save about $400 per month in interest. 

Wanna take your monthly mortgage below a thousand?  Cheaper than Montessori :)
What's the LIBOR margin on the 1-month LIBOR ARM IO loan?

1.625%
Who offers that one?  Alyson?  If so, I'm all over it. 

Not sure if she has an IO product, I'll email her.  Found the offer thru a letter Morgan Stanley sent me, found an online copy here:

http://luxuryloftsnyc.com/uploads/3/4/4/1/3441678/libor_loan.pdf

Googlefu came up Morgan Stanley being sued for manipulating LIBOR rates or something, anyone remember that?  From 2012.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Goriot on January 28, 2015, 12:04:41 PM
10 Year Treasury Down 5% to 1.73% near 52 week low.  Do you think it might go down further with growing deflationary pressure and all the turmoil in the global market? My refi rate on float. 

I might just lock the rate now.
Title: Re: How low can we go? 30 yr fixed at 3.75% with no fees...
Post by: Irvinecommuter on January 28, 2015, 12:19:35 PM
10 Year Treasury Down 5% to 1.73% near 52 week low.&n