Talk Irvine

General => Real Estate => Owner's Issues => Topic started by: woodburyowner on May 05, 2019, 11:11:52 AM

Title: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on May 05, 2019, 11:11:52 AM
Just saw that Tesla is lowering their solar panel cost.
https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/30/18523750/tesla-solar-panels-price-slash-decline-sales-roof

Does anyone have any experience with Tesla solar installation (not Solarcity as it's evolved over the last few years).  Price is getting to be very attractive now.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 05, 2019, 05:00:40 PM
Price need to drop more.

(Like a: how low can you go price drop?)  ;)
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: daedalus on May 05, 2019, 09:34:00 PM
I wonder if SCE actually pays customers for excess generation.  4KW is way more than I need, even with 1 electric car, assuming 8 hours of generation a day.  I assume there's some basic monthly grid fee even if you generate more than you consume.  Ignoring this, it's still a 8 year payoff for me. though I guess electricity will only go up in price over time.

There's still the question of how do you replace your roofing shingles every 30 years and still keep everything working and warrantied, and how much extra that will cost.  Maybe just replace the whole system every 30 years along with the roof.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 06, 2019, 07:21:57 AM
Prices may drop after the tax credit expires.

I wonder if SCE actually pays customers for excess generation.  4KW is way more than I need, even with 1 electric car, assuming 8 hours of generation a day.  I assume there's some basic monthly grid fee even if you generate more than you consume.  Ignoring this, it's still a 8 year payoff for me. though I guess electricity will only go up in price over time.

There's still the question of how do you replace your roofing shingles every 30 years and still keep everything working and warrantied, and how much extra that will cost.  Maybe just replace the whole system every 30 years along with the roof.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on May 06, 2019, 08:57:50 AM
I wonder if SCE actually pays customers for excess generation.  4KW is way more than I need, even with 1 electric car, assuming 8 hours of generation a day.  I assume there's some basic monthly grid fee even if you generate more than you consume.  Ignoring this, it's still a 8 year payoff for me. though I guess electricity will only go up in price over time.

There's still the question of how do you replace your roofing shingles every 30 years and still keep everything working and warrantied, and how much extra that will cost.  Maybe just replace the whole system every 30 years along with the roof.

4KW is a small system. I am doubtful you have anywhere near 100% offset with an electric car if you had a system that size. California probably averages 5 hours of sun a day throughout the year. That's only 7300 kWh (not accounting for losses) which is not that much for a house without an electric car. We barely use air condition and if you remove our 2 electric cars from the equation we're probably averaging just around 7000 kWh annually.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on May 06, 2019, 09:08:08 AM
I wonder if SCE actually pays customers for excess generation.  4KW is way more than I need, even with 1 electric car, assuming 8 hours of generation a day.  I assume there's some basic monthly grid fee even if you generate more than you consume.  Ignoring this, it's still a 8 year payoff for me. though I guess electricity will only go up in price over time.

There's still the question of how do you replace your roofing shingles every 30 years and still keep everything working and warrantied, and how much extra that will cost.  Maybe just replace the whole system every 30 years along with the roof.

4kWh system will yield 6,238 kWh per year.  M3 EV uses ~2500 kWh for 10k miles.  Low range of standard electricity usage in a avg SFR would be around 5000 kWh per year (light AC use).  --> It's very unlikely you will have any excess with 1 EV in the mix.  BTW, the SCE buy back rate is very low and not even worth calculating.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 06, 2019, 09:12:08 AM
I think eventually will be getting solar.

Once we get an EV that still qualifies for Fed credit, we will use that to help finance panels.

I'm wondering if more and more homes get solar, residential areas can actually become generators and we may see electricity costs go down.

Imagine free AC for your home and free fuel for your cars... that might be more beneficial than automated driving. :)
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: momopi on May 06, 2019, 09:25:54 AM
Personally, I like the roof tile style solar concept.  When I need to replace my roof, I'd seriously consider it if the price is acceptable.  I mean, you're already paying to replace the roof anyway.

But for now I'm not going to buy all electric cars.  Hybrids yes -- the technology is now quite mature.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 06, 2019, 10:11:12 AM
I wonder if SCE actually pays customers for excess generation.  4KW is way more than I need, even with 1 electric car, assuming 8 hours of generation a day.  I assume there's some basic monthly grid fee even if you generate more than you consume.  Ignoring this, it's still a 8 year payoff for me. though I guess electricity will only go up in price over time.

There's still the question of how do you replace your roofing shingles every 30 years and still keep everything working and warrantied, and how much extra that will cost.  Maybe just replace the whole system every 30 years along with the roof.

4kWh system will yield 6,238 kWh per year.  M3 EV uses ~2500 kWh for 10k miles.  Low range of standard electricity usage in a avg SFR would be around 5000 kWh per year (light AC use).  --> It's very unlikely you will have any excess with 1 EV in the mix.  BTW, the SCE buy back rate is very low and not even worth calculating.

It’s not worth it, unless you work from home or you have the AC on 247 or use a lot of electricity. (not prime time)

Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on May 06, 2019, 11:57:28 AM
I wonder if SCE actually pays customers for excess generation.  4KW is way more than I need, even with 1 electric car, assuming 8 hours of generation a day.  I assume there's some basic monthly grid fee even if you generate more than you consume.  Ignoring this, it's still a 8 year payoff for me. though I guess electricity will only go up in price over time.

There's still the question of how do you replace your roofing shingles every 30 years and still keep everything working and warrantied, and how much extra that will cost.  Maybe just replace the whole system every 30 years along with the roof.

4kWh system will yield 6,238 kWh per year.  M3 EV uses ~2500 kWh for 10k miles.  Low range of standard electricity usage in a avg SFR would be around 5000 kWh per year (light AC use).  --> It's very unlikely you will have any excess with 1 EV in the mix.  BTW, the SCE buy back rate is very low and not even worth calculating.

It’s not worth it, unless you work from home or you have the AC on 247 or use a lot of electricity. (not prime time)


It's better to view purchasing solar panels as a fix income purchase.  $8k net for $1k yield a year.  That's a 12.5% yield per year (with high probability the yield will increase due to rising kWh costs).  Where else are you getting this type of return?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 06, 2019, 12:03:10 PM
Hmm. Good point Woodbury. I appreciate your post. That is something to consider.

Let’s say if your not sure you might move or you might rent out the place in the future. (It’s hard to recover dollar for dollar the amount of money you spent. Also, who knows if you can charge a premium on the rent.)

Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: nosuchreality on May 06, 2019, 12:53:58 PM
I think eventually will be getting solar.

Once we get an EV that still qualifies for Fed credit, we will use that to help finance panels.

I'm wondering if more and more homes get solar, residential areas can actually become generators and we may see electricity costs go down.

Imagine free AC for your home and free fuel for your cars... that might be more beneficial than automated driving. :)

Minimum charges.

TOU charges that will shift peak use charges. They've already pushed them back, but going forward as more solar comes online, expect feature peak charges to occur in the 6PM-10PM window. 
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on May 06, 2019, 01:08:49 PM
Looks like Tesla won't install on any spanish tile or clay roofs.  I think this limits most newer homes.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 06, 2019, 01:25:24 PM
Also, a lot can change by 8 or x amount of years. The ruling in Nevada was not favorable then it changed.

(So who knows?)
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 06, 2019, 01:26:53 PM
Do people even consider the previous Nevada ruling? What if the energy companies lobby the Board is to change the rules in Cali.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on May 06, 2019, 01:43:25 PM
Hmm. Good point Woodbury. I appreciate your post. That is something to consider.

Let’s say if your not sure you might move or you might rent out the place in the future. (It’s hard to recover dollar for dollar the amount of money you spent. Also, who knows if you can charge a premium on the rent.)

This is exactly what happened to me. I installed a system on my old house and enjoyed solar for 7 months before moving and renting it out. Now I'm pondering if I should install it on this house now that we have 2 Teslas instead of one.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 06, 2019, 01:56:08 PM
Hmm. Good point Woodbury. I appreciate your post. That is something to consider.

Let’s say if your not sure you might move or you might rent out the place in the future. (It’s hard to recover dollar for dollar the amount of money you spent. Also, who knows if you can charge a premium on the rent.)

This is exactly what happened to me. I installed a system on my old house and enjoyed solar for 7 months before moving and renting it out. Now I'm pondering if I should install it on this house now that we have 2 Teslas instead of one.

Did you charge above market rent since it had solar?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on May 06, 2019, 02:16:14 PM
Hmm. Good point Woodbury. I appreciate your post. That is something to consider.

Let’s say if your not sure you might move or you might rent out the place in the future. (It’s hard to recover dollar for dollar the amount of money you spent. Also, who knows if you can charge a premium on the rent.)

This is exactly what happened to me. I installed a system on my old house and enjoyed solar for 7 months before moving and renting it out. Now I'm pondering if I should install it on this house now that we have 2 Teslas instead of one.

Did you charge above market rent since it had solar?

No because renters typically don't know enough about it to care about it. They tried to negotiate my rent down though and I did explain how it offsets some electricity bills.

When selling houses too, generally people aren't going to be paying extra just because solar panels are installed.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 06, 2019, 02:33:04 PM
Hmm. Good point Woodbury. I appreciate your post. That is something to consider.

Let’s say if your not sure you might move or you might rent out the place in the future. (It’s hard to recover dollar for dollar the amount of money you spent. Also, who knows if you can charge a premium on the rent.)

This is exactly what happened to me. I installed a system on my old house and enjoyed solar for 7 months before moving and renting it out. Now I'm pondering if I should install it on this house now that we have 2 Teslas instead of one.

Did you charge above market rent since it had solar?

No because renters typically don't know enough about it to care about it. They tried to negotiate my rent down though and I did explain how it offsets some electricity bills.

When selling houses too, generally people aren't going to be paying extra just because solar panels are installed.

Unbelievable! I can’t believe they tried to negotiate you down. I’m glad it turned out okay? (I hope)
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: nosuchreality on May 06, 2019, 03:04:27 PM
Do people even consider the previous Nevada ruling? What if the energy companies lobby the Board is to change the rules in Cali.

If?

They successfully did it multiple times already.  They changed to include minimum charges.  They changed the buy back rate to be a fraction of the market rate.    They changed to shift everyone to TOU metering.  They changed new installations to include certification they do not produce excess electricity.

You all got your California Climate Credit on your gas bill correct?  LOL.

Maybe they'll bring back the TTA charges and the mandated 10% reduction...
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 06, 2019, 06:10:59 PM
Do people even consider the previous Nevada ruling? What if the energy companies lobby the Board is to change the rules in Cali.

If?

They successfully did it multiple times already.  They changed to include minimum charges.  They changed the buy back rate to be a fraction of the market rate.    They changed to shift everyone to TOU metering.  They changed new installations to include certification they do not produce excess electricity.

You all got your California Climate Credit on your gas bill correct?  LOL.

Maybe they'll bring back the TTA charges and the mandated 10% reduction...

Good post. For the common person to understand. There was a bigger subsidy and also the shift people to the time of use.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 06, 2019, 06:17:12 PM
I am putting panels up for the mere fact that I am not beholdened to Edison...new Cal law allows them to cut power when there is high fire risk/danger...which could literally be every day. 

Also, electric vehicles are going to be the norm...why not get 30% rebate for it.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 06, 2019, 06:46:29 PM
I am putting panels up for the mere fact that I am not beholdened to Edison...new Cal law allows them to cut power when there is high fire risk/danger...which could literally be every day. 

Also, electric vehicles are going to be the norm...why not get 30% rebate for it.

So your planning to go off the grid?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: daedalus on May 06, 2019, 08:08:23 PM
4KW is a small system. I am doubtful you have anywhere near 100% offset with an electric car if you had a system that size. California probably averages 5 hours of sun a day throughout the year. That's only 7300 kWh (not accounting for losses) which is not that much for a house without an electric car. We barely use air condition and if you remove our 2 electric cars from the equation we're probably averaging just around 7000 kWh annually.

My average daily usage over the past few years has varied from 12 to 20 kwh.  A 4kw system would be adequate for me.  I would rather be a bit over and pay for a few kwh per month, rather than get a larger system.   It'll be a serious consideration when I replace my shingles, which won't be for a while.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 07, 2019, 07:23:17 AM
I am putting panels up for the mere fact that I am not beholdened to Edison...new Cal law allows them to cut power when there is high fire risk/danger...which could literally be every day. 

Also, electric vehicles are going to be the norm...why not get 30% rebate for it.

So your planning to go off the grid?

Unless your off the grid or have the power bank. Then you are acceptable to what you mentioned.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 07, 2019, 07:57:42 AM
I am putting panels up for the mere fact that I am not beholdened to Edison...new Cal law allows them to cut power when there is high fire risk/danger...which could literally be every day. 

Also, electric vehicles are going to be the norm...why not get 30% rebate for it.

So who you going with?

I'm with you on an EV, once you drive one, it's hard to go back to a gas or even non plug-in hybrid.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 07, 2019, 08:28:01 AM
I am putting panels up for the mere fact that I am not beholdened to Edison...new Cal law allows them to cut power when there is high fire risk/danger...which could literally be every day. 

Also, electric vehicles are going to be the norm...why not get 30% rebate for it.

So who you going with?

I'm with you on an EV, once you drive one, it's hard to go back to a gas or even non plug-in hybrid.

We went to Tesla because we were already at the Tesla place.  They took a lot longer than expected with the HOA and approval process with Irvine.  Set to get them on this month.   We are also getting two batteries so we will covered if there is a power issue.

I also priced it with SolarRun and the pricing is basically the same.   I heard Solarrun has better service.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 07, 2019, 08:28:47 AM
I am putting panels up for the mere fact that I am not beholdened to Edison...new Cal law allows them to cut power when there is high fire risk/danger...which could literally be every day. 

Also, electric vehicles are going to be the norm...why not get 30% rebate for it.

So your planning to go off the grid?

Unless your off the grid or have the power bank. Then you are acceptable to what you mentioned.

I am getting two power banks to have full backup...so hopefully off the grid.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 07, 2019, 08:36:13 AM
I am putting panels up for the mere fact that I am not beholdened to Edison...new Cal law allows them to cut power when there is high fire risk/danger...which could literally be every day. 

Also, electric vehicles are going to be the norm...why not get 30% rebate for it.

So your planning to go off the grid?

Unless your off the grid or have the power bank. Then you are acceptable to what you mentioned.

I am getting two power banks to have full backup...so hopefully off the grid.

So what’s the estimate time for you that the system will break even.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 07, 2019, 08:41:05 AM
I am putting panels up for the mere fact that I am not beholdened to Edison...new Cal law allows them to cut power when there is high fire risk/danger...which could literally be every day. 

Also, electric vehicles are going to be the norm...why not get 30% rebate for it.

So your planning to go off the grid?

Unless your off the grid or have the power bank. Then you are acceptable to what you mentioned.

I am getting two power banks to have full backup...so hopefully off the grid.

So what’s the estimate time for you that the system will break even.

That's hard to say...we don't use much electricity now because we were pretty frugal but with one EV (maybe two) and growing kids, I am thinking that it will go way up.  I am thinking that it would be like like 5 to 8 years to break even...but then I'm covered for the future.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on May 07, 2019, 08:51:13 AM
I'm heavily weighing if I want to get a new system on my house. I will likely need a 10-12 kW system though and would like to install 1 or 2 PowerWalls. It'll definitely be an expensive system but this is the last year for 30% rebate.

I don't think Tesla can deliver before year end though.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 07, 2019, 09:12:21 AM
I'm heavily weighing if I want to get a new system on my house. I will likely need a 10-12 kW system though and would like to install 1 or 2 PowerWalls. It'll definitely be an expensive system but this is the last year for 30% rebate.

I don't think Tesla can deliver before year end though.

They are supposed to be more efficient but SolarRun is super fast.  They have a powerwall equivalent.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 07, 2019, 09:18:31 AM
I am putting panels up for the mere fact that I am not beholdened to Edison...new Cal law allows them to cut power when there is high fire risk/danger...which could literally be every day. 

Also, electric vehicles are going to be the norm...why not get 30% rebate for it.

So your planning to go off the grid?

Unless your off the grid or have the power bank. Then you are acceptable to what you mentioned.

I am getting two power banks to have full backup...so hopefully off the grid.

So what’s the estimate time for you that the system will break even.

That's hard to say...we don't use much electricity now because we were pretty frugal but with one EV (maybe two) and growing kids, I am thinking that it will go way up.  I am thinking that it would be like like 5 to 8 years to break even...but then I'm covered for the future.

Don’t they tell you the calculation?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 07, 2019, 09:21:13 AM

Don’t they tell you the calculation?

I told them don't bother....I can do the math.  Based upon my current usage, it would be like 10 to 12 years to break even. 
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 07, 2019, 09:44:38 AM
I'm heavily weighing if I want to get a new system on my house. I will likely need a 10-12 kW system though and would like to install 1 or 2 PowerWalls. It'll definitely be an expensive system but this is the last year for 30% rebate.

I don't think Tesla can deliver before year end though.

They are supposed to be more efficient but SolarRun is super fast.  They have a powerwall equivalent.

Is SolarRun's Brightbox as good as Tesla's Powerwall? It's lower capacity so is the pricing the same?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 07, 2019, 09:51:13 AM
I'm heavily weighing if I want to get a new system on my house. I will likely need a 10-12 kW system though and would like to install 1 or 2 PowerWalls. It'll definitely be an expensive system but this is the last year for 30% rebate.

I don't think Tesla can deliver before year end though.

They are supposed to be more efficient but SolarRun is super fast.  They have a powerwall equivalent.

Is SolarRun's Brightbox as good as Tesla's Powerwall? It's lower capacity so is the pricing the same?

I didn't look nearly as deeply into Sunrun (my bad) as I did for Tesla...just the pricing.  I believe the total package to be pretty darn close. 

This seems like a decent breakdown.

https://www.earthsfriends.com/sunrun-vs-solarcity-vs-sungevity-vs-verengo/
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 07, 2019, 09:51:45 AM
I'm heavily weighing if I want to get a new system on my house. I will likely need a 10-12 kW system though and would like to install 1 or 2 PowerWalls. It'll definitely be an expensive system but this is the last year for 30% rebate.

I don't think Tesla can deliver before year end though.

Someone explained to me that solar will get cheaper like how flat screen TVs got cheaper.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 07, 2019, 09:55:55 AM
I'm heavily weighing if I want to get a new system on my house. I will likely need a 10-12 kW system though and would like to install 1 or 2 PowerWalls. It'll definitely be an expensive system but this is the last year for 30% rebate.

I don't think Tesla can deliver before year end though.

Someone explained to me that solar will get cheaper like how flat screen TVs got cheaper.

Probably but it will take awhile for it to get 30% cheaper.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 07, 2019, 09:59:58 AM
I'm heavily weighing if I want to get a new system on my house. I will likely need a 10-12 kW system though and would like to install 1 or 2 PowerWalls. It'll definitely be an expensive system but this is the last year for 30% rebate.

I don't think Tesla can deliver before year end though.

Someone explained to me that solar will get cheaper like how flat screen TVs got cheaper.

Probably but it will take awhile for it to get 30% cheaper.

Lower the installations costs and allow panels from China (this administration put a tarriff on China panels) Not that many people cares about buying things for cheap. If they want to lose money to grow their brand name or to get rid of inventory because they over produced. I say let them. 

The cost is reasonable if a person does a DIY. (not like I’m going to do it just saying)
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 07, 2019, 10:04:51 AM
I'm heavily weighing if I want to get a new system on my house. I will likely need a 10-12 kW system though and would like to install 1 or 2 PowerWalls. It'll definitely be an expensive system but this is the last year for 30% rebate.

I don't think Tesla can deliver before year end though.

Someone explained to me that solar will get cheaper like how flat screen TVs got cheaper.

Probably but it will take awhile for it to get 30% cheaper.

Lower the installations costs and allow panels from China

The cost is reasonable if a person does a DIY. (not like I’m going to do it just saying)

Panels have been coming in from China...installation costs are pretty darn low as it is.   

https://blog.pickmysolar.com/the-price-of-a-solar-panel-system-over-the-years

https://news.energysage.com/should-i-use-chinese-solar-panels-for-my-solar-installation/

Quote
Although there isn’t a universal truth when it comes to price or quality regarding solar panels, it is safe to say that Chinese solar manufacturers typically offer lower prices than other brands because of the incredibly low cost of production in China. This contrast between Chinese and specifically American solar panels has recently gotten some media attention following the bankruptcy of U.S. solar maker Suniva. After filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in early 2017, Suniva filed a petition with the United States International Trade Commission (USITC) to suggest a hefty tariff be placed on solar panel imports from China.

Quote
Moving on to the question of whether solar panels manufactured in China are of lower quality than other manufacturer origins (a concern we hear frequently from homeowners), the straightforward answer is “no they are not lower quality”. The specific country that a solar panel is made in will have little impact on the actual quality of the product put on your roof. In the above table, two trends are evident:

The large majority of solar manufacturing occurs in Asia and the top 3 solar panel brands by market share are producing their product in China (Trina, SunPower, Yingli Solar)

Solar panels of all ranges in quality (Economy, Standard, Premium) are made in China so there is no current correlation between the level of panel quality and whether it’s produced in China or elsewhere

The data table above shows that the only reason a homeowner should use country of origin to select solar panels is an external reason unrelated to quality or price, such as a desire to buy “Made in the USA” products or help stimulate American manufacturing jobs.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 07, 2019, 10:08:10 AM
From my understanding Trump put a tarriff on it.

I'm heavily weighing if I want to get a new system on my house. I will likely need a 10-12 kW system though and would like to install 1 or 2 PowerWalls. It'll definitely be an expensive system but this is the last year for 30% rebate.

I don't think Tesla can deliver before year end though.

Someone explained to me that solar will get cheaper like how flat screen TVs got cheaper.

Probably but it will take awhile for it to get 30% cheaper.

Lower the installations costs and allow panels from China

The cost is reasonable if a person does a DIY. (not like I’m going to do it just saying)

Panels have been coming in from China...installation costs are pretty darn low as it is.   

https://blog.pickmysolar.com/the-price-of-a-solar-panel-system-over-the-years

https://news.energysage.com/should-i-use-chinese-solar-panels-for-my-solar-installation/

Quote
Although there isn’t a universal truth when it comes to price or quality regarding solar panels, it is safe to say that Chinese solar manufacturers typically offer lower prices than other brands because of the incredibly low cost of production in China. This contrast between Chinese and specifically American solar panels has recently gotten some media attention following the bankruptcy of U.S. solar maker Suniva. After filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in early 2017, Suniva filed a petition with the United States International Trade Commission (USITC) to suggest a hefty tariff be placed on solar panel imports from China.

Quote
Moving on to the question of whether solar panels manufactured in China are of lower quality than other manufacturer origins (a concern we hear frequently from homeowners), the straightforward answer is “no they are not lower quality”. The specific country that a solar panel is made in will have little impact on the actual quality of the product put on your roof. In the above table, two trends are evident:

The large majority of solar manufacturing occurs in Asia and the top 3 solar panel brands by market share are producing their product in China (Trina, SunPower, Yingli Solar)

Solar panels of all ranges in quality (Economy, Standard, Premium) are made in China so there is no current correlation between the level of panel quality and whether it’s produced in China or elsewhere

The data table above shows that the only reason a homeowner should use country of origin to select solar panels is an external reason unrelated to quality or price, such as a desire to buy “Made in the USA” products or help stimulate American manufacturing jobs.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 07, 2019, 10:09:52 AM
Blame it on Selling and Installation cost.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 07, 2019, 10:15:34 AM
From my understanding Trump put a tarriff on it.


He did...30% but companies were already oversupplied so it doesn't make much difference.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/01/05/solar-panels-are-cheap-despite-trump-tariffs.aspx
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 07, 2019, 10:16:24 AM
@IC:

Hah... yeah, SunRun, not SolarRun.

I think someone on TI did some comparison and liked SunPower. This site says SunRun is the cheapest:

https://solartribune.com/your-home/solar-companies/california/

Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 07, 2019, 10:19:45 AM
From my understanding Trump put a tarriff on it.


He did...30% but companies were already oversupplied so it doesn't make much difference.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/01/05/solar-panels-are-cheap-despite-trump-tariffs.aspx

So I was right he did.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 07, 2019, 10:20:00 AM
@IC:

Hah... yeah, SunRun, not SolarRun.

I think someone on TI did some comparison and liked SunPower. This site says SunRun is the cheapest:

https://solartribune.com/your-home/solar-companies/california/

I called SunRun while I was working with Tesla and they gave me a quote that was essentially the same..so I went with Tesla. 
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 07, 2019, 10:20:32 AM
From my understanding Trump put a tarriff on it.


He did...30% but companies were already oversupplied so it doesn't make much difference.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/01/05/solar-panels-are-cheap-despite-trump-tariffs.aspx

So I was right he did.

Of course he did.  25% tariff incoming for many other things!
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 07, 2019, 10:21:55 AM
@IC:

Hah... yeah, SunRun, not SolarRun.

I think someone on TI did some comparison and liked SunPower. This site says SunRun is the cheapest:

https://solartribune.com/your-home/solar-companies/california/

I called SunRun while I was working with Tesla and they gave me a quote that was essentially the same..so I went with Tesla. 

Keep us updated on how it goes. Thinking about doing this before the Fed credit expires.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 07, 2019, 10:32:29 AM
From my understanding Trump put a tarriff on it.


He did...30% but companies were already oversupplied so it doesn't make much difference.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/01/05/solar-panels-are-cheap-despite-trump-tariffs.aspx

So I was right he did.

Of course he did.  25% tariff incoming for many other things!

Therefore if this is lifted. It might drive prices down more. Who knows? The industry needs to understand people don’t need solar. But in my opinion they price it like people do.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 07, 2019, 11:00:48 AM

Therefore if this is lifted. It might drive prices down more. Who knows? The industry needs to understand people don’t need solar. But in my opinion they price it like people do.

California is making solar mandatory for all new homes in 2020 and I am pretty sure something will be coming for existing home down the line.

https://psmag.com/environment/california-becomes-the-first-state-to-make-solar-panels-mandatory

As an aside, I found this to be the issue for me.  Irvine delayed things for like 1.5 months.

Quote
But research shows that local regulations, rather than state-level environmental laws, do more to delay development with "redundant" reviews and convoluted land-use regulations.

https://psmag.com/environment/california-becomes-the-first-state-to-make-solar-panels-mandatory
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 07, 2019, 11:04:54 AM
I don’t think they can force existing homes. Unless it’s cheap and affordable then they can’t force it.

Right now it’s a luxury item and they price it like it.

Also, Who knows if companies will be around after the federal subsidies drop.


Therefore if this is lifted. It might drive prices down more. Who knows? The industry needs to understand people don’t need solar. But in my opinion they price it like people do.

California is making solar mandatory for all new homes in 2020 and I am pretty sure something will be coming for existing home down the line.

https://psmag.com/environment/california-becomes-the-first-state-to-make-solar-panels-mandatory

As an aside, I found this to be the issue for me.  Irvine delayed things for like 1.5 months.

Quote
But research shows that local regulations, rather than state-level environmental laws, do more to delay development with "redundant" reviews and convoluted land-use regulations.

https://psmag.com/environment/california-becomes-the-first-state-to-make-solar-panels-mandatory
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 07, 2019, 11:08:29 AM
Pricing is a problem for the solar industry and they know it. They have a bunch of inventory sitting. I say let it sit.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 07, 2019, 11:09:28 AM
I don’t think they can force existing homes. Unless it’s cheap and affordable then they can’t force it.

Right now it’s a luxury item and they price it like it.

Also, Who knows if companies will be around after the federal subsidies drop.


I don't think it's priced like a luxury item at all...it's front-loaded costwise but that's every home improvement project.  There is a ton of financing too..
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 07, 2019, 11:12:29 AM
Let’s look at Sony and Microsoft gaming consule. Do they make a lot of money on the console itself or the royltaty and services?

They figured out people don’t want to spend the cost and plus 30-50% margin. (expectation of a company selling products in general) So they came up with a model to sell it to consumers.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 07, 2019, 11:13:14 AM
I don’t think they can force existing homes. Unless it’s cheap and affordable then they can’t force it.

Right now it’s a luxury item and they price it like it.

Also, Who knows if companies will be around after the federal subsidies drop.


I don't think it's priced like a luxury item at all...it's front-loaded costwise but that's every home improvement project.  There is a ton of financing too..

Yeah it is. Maybe they should put a luxury tax on it. Let’s go!
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 07, 2019, 11:15:08 AM
Pricing is a problem for the solar industry and they know it. They have a bunch of inventory sitting. I say let it sit.

There is a hurdle to overcome...it is an interesting issue because solar sort of hurts itself by making electricity overall so the benefits of solar gets reduced.

https://www.vox.com/2016/4/18/11415510/solar-power-costs-innovation

I would say that there may be a tipping point with people going off the grid in which utility companies are not economically viable.  Question is whether we get to that point soon.

https://e360.yale.edu/features/utilities-grapple-with-rooftop-solar-and-the-new-energy-landscape
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 07, 2019, 11:17:45 AM
So I am right. They have inventory sitting. If it was a car company they will discount. They will heavily discount it to get it off the lot. (Same with electronics.)

Why don’t they do that with solar?

Pricing is a problem for the solar industry and they know it. They have a bunch of inventory sitting. I say let it sit.

There is a hurdle to overcome...it is an interesting issue because solar sort of hurts itself by making electricity overall so the benefits of solar gets reduced.

https://www.vox.com/2016/4/18/11415510/solar-power-costs-innovation

I would say that there may be a tipping point with people going off the grid in which utility companies are not economically viable.  Question is whether we get to that point soon.

https://e360.yale.edu/features/utilities-grapple-with-rooftop-solar-and-the-new-energy-landscape
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 07, 2019, 11:18:32 AM
Because the demand is not high and even if they discount it 10% people would not buy.

So I am right. They have inventory sitting. If it was a car company they will discount. They will heavily discount it to get it off the lot. (Same with electronics.)

Why don’t they do that with solar?

Pricing is a problem for the solar industry and they know it. They have a bunch of inventory sitting. I say let it sit.

There is a hurdle to overcome...it is an interesting issue because solar sort of hurts itself by making electricity overall so the benefits of solar gets reduced.

https://www.vox.com/2016/4/18/11415510/solar-power-costs-innovation

I would say that there may be a tipping point with people going off the grid in which utility companies are not economically viable.  Question is whether we get to that point soon.

https://e360.yale.edu/features/utilities-grapple-with-rooftop-solar-and-the-new-energy-landscape
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 07, 2019, 11:24:09 AM
So I am right. They have inventory sitting. If it was a car company they will discount. They will heavily discount it to get it off the lot. (Same with electronics.)

Why don’t they do that with solar?

Pricing is a problem for the solar industry and they know it. They have a bunch of inventory sitting. I say let it sit.

There is a hurdle to overcome...it is an interesting issue because solar sort of hurts itself by making electricity overall so the benefits of solar gets reduced.

https://www.vox.com/2016/4/18/11415510/solar-power-costs-innovation

I would say that there may be a tipping point with people going off the grid in which utility companies are not economically viable.  Question is whether we get to that point soon.

https://e360.yale.edu/features/utilities-grapple-with-rooftop-solar-and-the-new-energy-landscape

Because the cost is not with the panels..the costs are with other parts.  Panels are not perishable so there is no incentive to discount.   

Car companies don't discount...dealership do because they are trying to make quota and get bigger fleet discounts.  They have also carrying costs affiliated holding older cars...people don't care if the panels are 2018 or 2019 models.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 07, 2019, 11:25:56 AM
It’s all about demand. The supply is there.

Watch when the 30% goes. Then the demand will drop and the price will drop.

(Economics 101)
The prices are currently inflated.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 07, 2019, 11:28:25 AM
It’s all about demand. The supply is there.

Watch when the 30% goes. Then the demand will drop and the price will drop.

(Economics 101)

It depends on a lot of factors....for example PG&E is going to start raise rates because of all the wildfire its causing.  Utility will have to step up their fire preventation budgets...which means higher rates.  At some point, there will be a tipping point where people will install solar/batteries to get out of the grid.  The profileration of EV cars is another factor.

Quote
When a customer installs solar panels, it hurts the utility in two ways.

One, it reduces demand for utility power. Utilities generally don’t want lower demand. To justify building stuff, they need to be able to project higher demand.

Two, the more solar customers reduce their utility bills by generating their own power, the more utilities have to charge other, non-solar customers more, to cover their costs-plus-returns. This pisses the other customers off. And it incentivizes them to install solar themselves!

Utilities are terrified of the “death spiral” that could ensue as more customers are driven to generate their own power. So they are increasingly fighting back.

“The utilities’ response,” McKinsey writes, “has been to design rates that reduce the incentive to install solar by moving to time-of-use pricing structures, implementing demand charges, or trying to reduce how much they pay customers for the electricity they produce that is exported to the grid.”

https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2017/7/7/15927250/utilities-rooftop-solar-batteries

It's playing out very similarly to the cable tv industry where the internet speed finally makes it possible for streaming to be a viable alternative. 
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 07, 2019, 11:53:58 AM
Compare it to the cable industry and streaming. Sorry it’s not the same. Also, cable companies are still making money and turning a profit. I don’t think I can say that about solar companies.
 
A person can get a roku or Apple TV device for cheap. You can’t say that about solar panels.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 07, 2019, 12:01:39 PM
Compare it to the cable industry and streaming. Sorry it’s not the same. Also, cable companies are still making money and turning a profit. I don’t think I can say that about solar companies.
 
A person can get a roku or Apple TV device for cheap. You can’t say that about solar panels.

Cable TV is losing money due to cord cutters...not because Roku/Apple TV.  Cable companies are making money on providing internet service and merging with content producers.  solar companies just provide the initial set up...no long term commitments like high speed internet.

Quote
AT&T lost a net 544,000 premium TV subscribers, a category that includes DirecTV satellite and U-verse television customers. Analysts had expected a loss of 385,000 customers across DirecTV and U-verse, according to research firm FactSet.

Pay-TV providers have struggled to keep customers as viewers move to streaming services like Netflix Inc. AT&T has launched its own streaming service, but that too lost customers in the quarter.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-at-t-results/att-misses-revenue-estimates-as-pay-tv-subscribers-bleed-away-idUSKCN1S01AT

Quote
NEW YORK (AP) — Comcast is still losing U.S. cable customers but is racking up more internet subscribers and has gotten a revenue boost from Sky, its big bet on European TV.

The Philadelphia company said Wednesday that it lost 29,000 U.S. cable customers in the fourth quarter but added 351,000 internet subscribers. It also gained customers in its new cellphone-plan business.


The company is dealing with a growing number of people who are cutting their cable bundles to save money, enticed by Netflix and several other companies offering cheaper streaming services.

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/comcast-loses-cable-users-but-internet-subscribers-rise/
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on May 07, 2019, 12:02:22 PM
Prices ARE dropping while efficiency of the panels are increasing.  When I first started getting quotes 5 years ago, the prices were $4/watt.  Then a few years ago I revisited the cost and it was $3.50/watt.  Now the cost is $3/watt.  These are all pre-tax credit numbers.  Tesla is setting a new lower bar with a transparent $3/watt price.  Hopefully this will translate into some further downward price pressure from competitors.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 07, 2019, 12:05:48 PM
Prices ARE dropping while efficiency of the panels are increasing.  When I first started getting quotes 5 years ago, the prices were $4/watt.  Then a few years ago I revisited the cost and it was $3.50/watt.  Now the cost is $3/watt.  These are all pre-tax credit numbers.  Tesla is setting a new lower bar with a transparent $3/watt price.  Hopefully this is translate into some further downward price pressure from competitors.

Yeah...Tesla didn't sell me it with the rebate price factored in. 

Also with financing, my payment would be like $200-$300 a month....it would be like writing a check to Tesla instead of Edison monthly.

Edit:  It would be more like $400 but still.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 07, 2019, 12:15:59 PM
Wait more for prime time.

Prices ARE dropping while efficiency of the panels are increasing.  When I first started getting quotes 5 years ago, the prices were $4/watt.  Then a few years ago I revisited the cost and it was $3.50/watt.  Now the cost is $3/watt.  These are all pre-tax credit numbers.  Tesla is setting a new lower bar with a transparent $3/watt price.  Hopefully this will translate into some further downward price pressure from competitors.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 07, 2019, 12:57:02 PM
It depends on a lot of factors....for example PG&E is going to start raise rates because of all the wildfire its causing.  Utility will have to step up their fire preventation budgets...which means higher rates.  At some point, there will be a tipping point where people will install solar/batteries to get out of the grid.  The profileration of EV cars is another factor.

Quote
When a customer installs solar panels, it hurts the utility in two ways.

One, it reduces demand for utility power. Utilities generally don’t want lower demand. To justify building stuff, they need to be able to project higher demand.

Two, the more solar customers reduce their utility bills by generating their own power, the more utilities have to charge other, non-solar customers more, to cover their costs-plus-returns. This pisses the other customers off. And it incentivizes them to install solar themselves!

Utilities are terrified of the “death spiral” that could ensue as more customers are driven to generate their own power. So they are increasingly fighting back.

“The utilities’ response,” McKinsey writes, “has been to design rates that reduce the incentive to install solar by moving to time-of-use pricing structures, implementing demand charges, or trying to reduce how much they pay customers for the electricity they produce that is exported to the grid.”

https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2017/7/7/15927250/utilities-rooftop-solar-batteries

It's playing out very similarly to the cable tv industry where the internet speed finally makes it possible for streaming to be a viable alternative. 

I agree.

The automotive industry is moving to EVs and with rising electricity rates (like rising cable costs), people will look for ways to decrease their expenses.

The bigger picture here is as more homes adopt solar, as I've mentioned before, is we become group generators rather than just consumers and that will help everyone as a whole.

It may even help lower gas prices (over $4 a gallon what?!?) as people become less dependent on fossil fuel.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 07, 2019, 01:09:28 PM
Compare it to the cable industry and streaming. Sorry it’s not the same. Also, cable companies are still making money and turning a profit. I don’t think I can say that about solar companies.


Is the solar company going to be around in 10 years to service or honor the warranty of the solar panels? I don’t lnlw
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 07, 2019, 01:15:37 PM
Compare it to the cable industry and streaming. Sorry it’s not the same. Also, cable companies are still making money and turning a profit. I don’t think I can say that about solar companies.


Is the solar company going to be around in 10 years to service or honor the warranty of the solar panels? I don’t lnlw

Yes.   Because most panels have both manufacture and installer warranties.   Panels warranties are between 12-25 years.  Battery warranties are 10 years.

https://news.energysage.com/shopping-solar-panels-pay-attention-to-solar-panels-warranty/

I mean...you get no warranty with most home improvements.  And best you get the 4/10 year statute of limitation to sue.

Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on May 07, 2019, 01:17:08 PM
The biggest plus for me to have solar is that during the summer, I will actively turn off my AC because I am cheap.
Now with solar, I will be able to set my AC at 70 degrees and leave it on w/o thinking about ever turning it off.
Plus in 8 years it will be paid off.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 07, 2019, 01:18:44 PM
The biggest plus for me to have solar is that during the summer, I will actively turn off my AC because I am cheap.
Now with solar, I will be able to set my AC at 70 degrees and leave it on w/o thinking about ever turning it off.
Plus in 8 years it will be paid off.

Agreed...you can use electricity whenever you want and with the new time slot usage system, it's going to be a serious issue.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 07, 2019, 01:39:04 PM
Compare it to the cable industry and streaming. Sorry it’s not the same. Also, cable companies are still making money and turning a profit. I don’t think I can say that about solar companies.


Is the solar company going to be around in 10 years to service or honor the warranty of the solar panels? I don’t lnlw

Yes.   Because most panels have both manufacture and installer warranties.   Panels warranties are between 12-25 years.  Battery warranties are 10 years.

https://news.energysage.com/shopping-solar-panels-pay-attention-to-solar-panels-warranty/

I mean...you get no warranty with most home improvements.  And best you get the 4/10 year statute of limitation to sue.

Have you taken a look at the financials of top public solar comapanies?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 07, 2019, 01:56:13 PM
Compare it to the cable industry and streaming. Sorry it’s not the same. Also, cable companies are still making money and turning a profit. I don’t think I can say that about solar companies.


Is the solar company going to be around in 10 years to service or honor the warranty of the solar panels? I don’t lnlw

Yes.   Because most panels have both manufacture and installer warranties.   Panels warranties are between 12-25 years.  Battery warranties are 10 years.

https://news.energysage.com/shopping-solar-panels-pay-attention-to-solar-panels-warranty/

I mean...you get no warranty with most home improvements.  And best you get the 4/10 year statute of limitation to sue.

Have you taken a look at the financials of top public solar comapanies?

Have you looked the financials for most home improvement contractors?  I get your concern but solar is to stay...companies will get bought and sold but it will be around.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 07, 2019, 02:07:18 PM
As an aside, my electric offered to buy my electricity from a solar farm. But it will cost me 15% more because they said it costs more for renewable energy than non-renewable.

Bullocks!!
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 07, 2019, 02:33:55 PM
Compare it to the cable industry and streaming. Sorry it’s not the same. Also, cable companies are still making money and turning a profit. I don’t think I can say that about solar companies.


Is the solar company going to be around in 10 years to service or honor the warranty of the solar panels? I don’t lnlw

Yes.   Because most panels have both manufacture and installer warranties.   Panels warranties are between 12-25 years.  Battery warranties are 10 years.

https://news.energysage.com/shopping-solar-panels-pay-attention-to-solar-panels-warranty/

I mean...you get no warranty with most home improvements.  And best you get the 4/10 year statute of limitation to sue.

Have you taken a look at the financials of top public solar comapanies?

Have you looked the financials for most home improvement contractors?  I get your concern but solar is to stay...companies will get bought and sold but it will be around.

Since you won’t break it down I will. Explain the net loss. If the demand is there? Why the net loss?

Maybe they should charge higher for the solar panels come to think of it.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 07, 2019, 03:15:44 PM
This point in time. Bottom line this is considered a luxury item. It’s not an item that is needed like a refrigerator.

You previously mentioned that your break even point is like 15 years. I think that’s a long time from now.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on May 07, 2019, 03:55:58 PM
My edison bill is about $135/month, but can get to $220 in the Summer time like AUG. 
This $220/month is with me trying to minimize my electricity usage.  If I were to keep my AC at 70 degrees from JUN - SEP, it would probably be more like $350/month.

So lets say I average $150/month * 12 = $1,800/year

After 10 years I would have paid out $18,000. 
TESLA's website quotes me at around $16,000 (with 30% rebate).

So break even is 9 years plus I can keep my AC at 70 degrees all the time.


Is that worth $16,000 with a possible breakeven in 9 years?..I think so.

Ofcourse if you take the $16,000 and put it into something like AVGO, perhaps you would be even better financially, but then you couldn't keep your AC at 70 degrees all the time!!! 


So yeah it's a luxury item, set it and forget it.



Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 07, 2019, 04:02:28 PM
This point in time. Bottom line this is considered a luxury item. It’s not an item that is needed like a refrigerator.

You previously mentioned that your break even point is like 15 years. I think that’s a long time from now.

No...my break even point assuming my current usage is 10-12 years but that's with small children and no EV.

With one EV and older children...it will be 5 to 8 years.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 07, 2019, 04:06:58 PM
How about this? Will you move in the future?
(Better job opportunity, rent your current place out)

My edison bill is about $135/month, but can get to $220 in the Summer time like AUG. 
This $220/month is with me trying to minimize my electricity usage.  If I were to keep my AC at 70 degrees from JUN - SEP, it would probably be more like $350/month.

So lets say I average $150/month * 12 = $1,800/year

After 10 years I would have paid out $18,000. 
TESLA's website quotes me at around $16,000 (with 30% rebate).

So break even is 9 years plus I can keep my AC at 70 degrees all the time.


Is that worth $16,000 with a possible breakeven in 9 years?..I think so.

Ofcourse if you take the $16,000 and put it into something like AVGO, perhaps you would be even better financially, but then you couldn't keep your AC at 70 degrees all the time!!! 


So yeah it's a luxury item, set it and forget it.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 07, 2019, 04:11:32 PM
This point in time. Bottom line this is considered a luxury item. It’s not an item that is needed like a refrigerator.

You previously mentioned that your break even point is like 15 years. I think that’s a long time from now.

No...my break even point assuming my current usage is 10-12 years but that's with small children and no EV.

With one EV and older children...it will be 5 to 8 years.

People can’t even plan what they want to do next weekend or during the summer better yet 10 plus years.

Too much of a commitment.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on May 07, 2019, 04:17:57 PM
How about this? Will you move in the future?

My edison bill is about $135/month, but can get to $220 in the Summer time like AUG. 
This $220/month is with me trying to minimize my electricity usage.  If I were to keep my AC at 70 degrees from JUN - SEP, it would probably be more like $350/month.

So lets say I average $150/month * 12 = $1,800/year

After 10 years I would have paid out $18,000. 
TESLA's website quotes me at around $16,000 (with 30% rebate).

So break even is 9 years plus I can keep my AC at 70 degrees all the time.


Is that worth $16,000 with a possible breakeven in 9 years?..I think so.

Ofcourse if you take the $16,000 and put it into something like AVGO, perhaps you would be even better financially, but then you couldn't keep your AC at 70 degrees all the time!!! 


So yeah it's a luxury item, set it and forget it.

Buying a solar system would make me not want to move.  However, if after 5 years, I'm making double my income, I would be tempted to move to a more expensive mansion even though the one I'm in is quite adequate.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 07, 2019, 04:20:48 PM
How about this? Will you move in the future?

My edison bill is about $135/month, but can get to $220 in the Summer time like AUG. 
This $220/month is with me trying to minimize my electricity usage.  If I were to keep my AC at 70 degrees from JUN - SEP, it would probably be more like $350/month.

So lets say I average $150/month * 12 = $1,800/year

After 10 years I would have paid out $18,000. 
TESLA's website quotes me at around $16,000 (with 30% rebate).

So break even is 9 years plus I can keep my AC at 70 degrees all the time.


Is that worth $16,000 with a possible breakeven in 9 years?..I think so.

Ofcourse if you take the $16,000 and put it into something like AVGO, perhaps you would be even better financially, but then you couldn't keep your AC at 70 degrees all the time!!! 


So yeah it's a luxury item, set it and forget it.

Buying a solar system would make me not want to move.  However, if after 5 years, I'm making double my income, I would be tempted to move to a more expensive mansion even though the one I'm in is quite adequate.

Aren’t you a CEO already?  ;)
Like the other TI member. I forgot his name. He moved and he couldn’t charge extra for the solar feature.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on May 07, 2019, 07:00:12 PM
How about this? Will you move in the future?

My edison bill is about $135/month, but can get to $220 in the Summer time like AUG. 
This $220/month is with me trying to minimize my electricity usage.  If I were to keep my AC at 70 degrees from JUN - SEP, it would probably be more like $350/month.

So lets say I average $150/month * 12 = $1,800/year

After 10 years I would have paid out $18,000. 
TESLA's website quotes me at around $16,000 (with 30% rebate).

So break even is 9 years plus I can keep my AC at 70 degrees all the time.


Is that worth $16,000 with a possible breakeven in 9 years?..I think so.

Ofcourse if you take the $16,000 and put it into something like AVGO, perhaps you would be even better financially, but then you couldn't keep your AC at 70 degrees all the time!!! 


So yeah it's a luxury item, set it and forget it.

Buying a solar system would make me not want to move.  However, if after 5 years, I'm making double my income, I would be tempted to move to a more expensive mansion even though the one I'm in is quite adequate.

Aren’t you a CEO already?  ;)
Like the other TI member. I forgot his name. He moved and he couldn’t charge extra for the solar feature.

Hey that was just poor planning on my part. I enjoyed 8 months of my new solar system though! Either way I'm still likely going to pursue solar on my new house. Worth it to me to freely use electricity that I know is "prepaid".
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 07, 2019, 08:13:31 PM
How about this? Will you move in the future?

My edison bill is about $135/month, but can get to $220 in the Summer time like AUG. 
This $220/month is with me trying to minimize my electricity usage.  If I were to keep my AC at 70 degrees from JUN - SEP, it would probably be more like $350/month.

So lets say I average $150/month * 12 = $1,800/year

After 10 years I would have paid out $18,000. 
TESLA's website quotes me at around $16,000 (with 30% rebate).

So break even is 9 years plus I can keep my AC at 70 degrees all the time.


Is that worth $16,000 with a possible breakeven in 9 years?..I think so.

Ofcourse if you take the $16,000 and put it into something like AVGO, perhaps you would be even better financially, but then you couldn't keep your AC at 70 degrees all the time!!! 


So yeah it's a luxury item, set it and forget it.

Buying a solar system would make me not want to move.  However, if after 5 years, I'm making double my income, I would be tempted to move to a more expensive mansion even though the one I'm in is quite adequate.

Aren’t you a CEO already?  ;)
Like the other TI member. I forgot his name. He moved and he couldn’t charge extra for the solar feature.

Hey that was just poor planning on my part. I enjoyed 8 months of my new solar system though! Either way I'm still likely going to pursue solar on my new house. Worth it to me to freely use electricity that I know is "prepaid".

Might as well drop 20-30 on a index fund or stock of choice.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: marmott on May 07, 2019, 10:08:41 PM
It depends on a lot of factors....for example PG&E is going to start raise rates because of all the wildfire its causing.  Utility will have to step up their fire preventation budgets...which means higher rates.  At some point, there will be a tipping point where people will install solar/batteries to get out of the grid.  The profileration of EV cars is another factor.
Quote

PG&E boast themselves as having the highest solar adoption rate in the country for years: https://www.pge.com/en/about/newsroom/newsdetails/index.page?title=20150325_pge_leads_us_as_largest_solar_utility_with_more_than_150000_solar_customer_installations

They are the second most expensive utility provider in the country, so what you are saying has been happening for years.

Around where I live it’s not uncommon for people to get $800 electricity bills in the summer if they don’t have solar.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on May 20, 2019, 10:13:44 PM
Got a quote from sunrun today through Costco:
$22,475 for a 6 KwH system
-$6,742 for the 30% rebate
-$632 10% back Costco card
----------
$15,101
$15,101/6,000 = $2.52 per Watt

Compare this with Tesla's $15,960 which is a 8 KwH system
$15,960/8,000 = $1.99 per Watt

The Costco/Sunrun system also has some credit card and executive account stuff you can game to make it go down another $450, but Tesla is still cheaper.  However, I hear Tesla service is pretty shit and their stock dropped to $205/share today.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: marmott on May 20, 2019, 11:02:16 PM
I have a Solar City system  now managed by Tesla and the after sale service was pretty good for us. We “inherited” the system from the previous buyer and having it transferred to our name was a breeze.

The solar gateway (the small device that sits between the inverter and Tesla’s servers) was not working because the previous owner never plugged it in so it expired. It was easy to get a new one sent to us at no cost but they were on back order for 3 months so no tracking of our production or consumption online during that time. It feels like supply chain management is an issue for both car and solar at Tesla.

My last interaction with them was about the power consumption monitoring device not working (it always reported that we were using twice as much power than we were producing). I had an appointment within a week but they had to come two time to fix it completely because we have 2 inverters and they were missing some probes for the indoor electric panel. Everything works now and the technicians that came by were really good.

The main thing that would worry me with Tesla is how long it will take them to complete the installation, the after sale support is good.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on May 21, 2019, 09:33:05 AM
Got a quote from sunrun today through Costco:
$22,475 for a 6 KwH system
-$6,742 for the 30% rebate
-$632 10% back Costco card
----------
$15,101
$15,101/6,000 = $2.52 per Watt

Compare this with Tesla's $15,960 which is a 8 KwH system
$15,960/8,000 = $1.99 per Watt

The Costco/Sunrun system also has some credit card and executive account stuff you can game to make it go down another $450, but Tesla is still cheaper.  However, I hear Tesla service is pretty shit and their stock dropped to $205/share today.

As stupid as it sounds, I enjoy having my solar monitoring app integrated into my car app and that is a strong driver of why I'm going to go with Tesla again.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on May 21, 2019, 09:42:30 AM
So last night, I was doing my due diligence on solar and this site energysage.com kept coming up.

So I signed up and they sent me these quotes thismorning: (after 30% tax credit prices)
Infinity Solar ~ $13,243/6,930 = $1.91 per watt (21 panels using panasonic)
LA Solar Group ~ $16,814/8,580 = $1.95 per watt (26 panels using panasonic)
Solar MAX ~ $14,345/7,590 = $1.89 per watt (23 panels using panasonic)

It looks like Sunrun and Tesla are the big players and more expensive, but the smaller players have better value.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 21, 2019, 09:48:03 AM
Did you see what Morgan recently said about Tesla stock and company?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 21, 2019, 10:55:02 AM
@zubs:

Did you try solar.com? I keep hearing their ads on the radio how they can get you the best quotes from different solar companies.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on May 21, 2019, 10:56:24 AM
So last night, I was doing my due diligence on solar and this site energysage.com kept coming up.

So I signed up and they sent me these quotes thismorning: (after 30% tax credit prices)
Infinity Solar ~ $13,243/6,930 = $1.91 per watt (21 panels using panasonic)
LA Solar Group ~ $16,814/8,580 = $1.95 per watt (26 panels using panasonic)
Solar MAX ~ $14,345/7,590 = $1.89 per watt (23 panels using panasonic)

It looks like Sunrun and Tesla are the big players and more expensive, but the smaller players have better value.

Tesla price matches any quote. What I did was take LA Solar's quote after bartering them down to Tesla and they matched it.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 21, 2019, 11:01:06 AM
So last night, I was doing my due diligence on solar and this site energysage.com kept coming up.

So I signed up and they sent me these quotes thismorning: (after 30% tax credit prices)
Infinity Solar ~ $13,243/6,930 = $1.91 per watt (21 panels using panasonic)
LA Solar Group ~ $16,814/8,580 = $1.95 per watt (26 panels using panasonic)
Solar MAX ~ $14,345/7,590 = $1.89 per watt (23 panels using panasonic)

It looks like Sunrun and Tesla are the big players and more expensive, but the smaller players have better value.

Tesla price matches any quote. What I did was take LA Solar's quote after bartering them down to Tesla and they matched it.

That is pretty much the pricing i got...but add like 8k for the 2 powerwalls
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 21, 2019, 11:01:55 AM
Did you see what Morgan recently said about Tesla stock and company?

Tesla shares could drop to $10 in a worst-case scenario, Morgan Stanley says

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/05/21/morgan-stanley-tesla-shares-could-drop-to-10-in-worst-case-scenario.html
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 21, 2019, 11:12:00 AM
I'm tempted to do solar before this summer and because of the Fed cuts. I'm also planning to add an EV soon... hmmm.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on May 21, 2019, 11:17:06 AM
If you look at all these quotes, the sunrun/costco quote is the highest.
You're better off using a small player, or even Tesla.

But I think Tesla service is pretty bad as my friend had a small accident with her model 3 and after 5 months, the part she needs is still on order..LOL.  I know the car company doesn't translate to the solar company, but they are connected, and with Elon squeezing costs as much as possible, I don't think service is going to get better any time soon.



Public service announcement...don't get into an accident when you drive your Tesla.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 21, 2019, 11:45:55 AM
Again, a bathroom or a kitchen upgrade probably would be a better roi than solar.

The ROI or solar is around like 10 plus years. If you work from home or have 2 hvac units it might be sooner. Also, look at the weather change. (Kind is gloomy and rainy. Seems like more cooler than before which may effect the panels. I hope they factor that in.)

Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 21, 2019, 12:58:07 PM
Again, a bathroom or a kitchen upgrade probably would be a better roi than solar.

The ROI or solar is around like 10 plus years. If you work from home or have 2 hvac units it might be sooner. Also, look at the weather change. (Kind is gloomy and rainy. Seems like more cooler than before which may effect the panels. I hope they factor that in.)

Depends on what you need. If you live in a newer home, you may not need a bathroom/kitchen remodel.

With gas over $4 a gallon and EV ownership on the rise, that offset of cost should be considered. Plus, you are greener and help the environment. :)
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on May 21, 2019, 02:14:18 PM
So last night, I was doing my due diligence on solar and this site energysage.com kept coming up.

So I signed up and they sent me these quotes thismorning: (after 30% tax credit prices)
Infinity Solar ~ $13,243/6,930 = $1.91 per watt (21 panels using panasonic)
LA Solar Group ~ $16,814/8,580 = $1.95 per watt (26 panels using panasonic)
Solar MAX ~ $14,345/7,590 = $1.89 per watt (23 panels using panasonic)

It looks like Sunrun and Tesla are the big players and more expensive, but the smaller players have better value.

Tesla price matches any quote. What I did was take LA Solar's quote after bartering them down to Tesla and they matched it.

Does Tesla care about which panels and inverters you price match to?  They use Hanwha panels only which aren't very popular among smaller solar installer companies.  Most use LG or Panasonic.   Just curious what their price match terms are.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on May 21, 2019, 02:17:37 PM
Again, a bathroom or a kitchen upgrade probably would be a better roi than solar.

The ROI or solar is around like 10 plus years. If you work from home or have 2 hvac units it might be sooner. Also, look at the weather change. (Kind is gloomy and rainy. Seems like more cooler than before which may effect the panels. I hope they factor that in.)

The payback on a smaller system (ie. 4kw) is around 8 years and can go down to 6 years if you use an above average amount of electricity.  This is not taking into account any price increases from SCE.

I'm not sure how you're getting 10 years.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 21, 2019, 02:30:21 PM
Again, a bathroom or a kitchen upgrade probably would be a better roi than solar.

The ROI or solar is around like 10 plus years. If you work from home or have 2 hvac units it might be sooner. Also, look at the weather change. (Kind is gloomy and rainy. Seems like more cooler than before which may effect the panels. I hope they factor that in.)

The payback on a smaller system (ie. 4kw) is around 8 years and can go down to 6 years if you use an above average amount of electricity.  This is not taking into account any price increases from SCE.

I'm not sure how you're getting 10 years.

It all depends. It depends on the SIZE of the system, brand, wall battery, etc.

Didn’t someone on TI say 10 years.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 21, 2019, 04:14:54 PM
So last night, I was doing my due diligence on solar and this site energysage.com kept coming up.

So I signed up and they sent me these quotes thismorning: (after 30% tax credit prices)
Infinity Solar ~ $13,243/6,930 = $1.91 per watt (21 panels using panasonic)
LA Solar Group ~ $16,814/8,580 = $1.95 per watt (26 panels using panasonic)
Solar MAX ~ $14,345/7,590 = $1.89 per watt (23 panels using panasonic)

It looks like Sunrun and Tesla are the big players and more expensive, but the smaller players have better value.

Tesla price matches any quote. What I did was take LA Solar's quote after bartering them down to Tesla and they matched it.

Does Tesla care about which panels and inverters you price match to?  They use Hanwha panels only which aren't very popular among smaller solar installer companies.  Most use LG or Panasonic.   Just curious what their price match terms are.

My understanding is that Tesla uses Panasonic.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 21, 2019, 04:15:20 PM
Again, a bathroom or a kitchen upgrade probably would be a better roi than solar.

The ROI or solar is around like 10 plus years. If you work from home or have 2 hvac units it might be sooner. Also, look at the weather change. (Kind is gloomy and rainy. Seems like more cooler than before which may effect the panels. I hope they factor that in.)

The payback on a smaller system (ie. 4kw) is around 8 years and can go down to 6 years if you use an above average amount of electricity.  This is not taking into account any price increases from SCE.

I'm not sure how you're getting 10 years.

It all depends. It depends on the SIZE of the system, brand, wall battery, etc.

Didn’t someone on TI say 10 years.

No...most people are around 5 to 8.

Interior remodeling is worst ROI...you never get the same value back. 

Quote
According to Remodeling Magazine (http://www.remodeling.hw.net/) you're less likely to recoup your investment in a major kitchen or bathroom remodel than you are to get back what you spend on basic home maintenance such as new siding. Siding replacement recouped 92.8 percent of its cost, according to the study. The only home improvement likely to return more at resale was a minor (roughly $15,000) kitchen remodel, which returned 92.9 percent. Replacing roofs and windows were also high on the list, returning 80 percent or more at resale.

https://www.hgtv.com/design/decorating/clean-and-organize/which-home-improvements-pay-off
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on May 21, 2019, 04:22:55 PM
So last night, I was doing my due diligence on solar and this site energysage.com kept coming up.

So I signed up and they sent me these quotes thismorning: (after 30% tax credit prices)
Infinity Solar ~ $13,243/6,930 = $1.91 per watt (21 panels using panasonic)
LA Solar Group ~ $16,814/8,580 = $1.95 per watt (26 panels using panasonic)
Solar MAX ~ $14,345/7,590 = $1.89 per watt (23 panels using panasonic)

It looks like Sunrun and Tesla are the big players and more expensive, but the smaller players have better value.

Tesla price matches any quote. What I did was take LA Solar's quote after bartering them down to Tesla and they matched it.

Does Tesla care about which panels and inverters you price match to?  They use Hanwha panels only which aren't very popular among smaller solar installer companies.  Most use LG or Panasonic.   Just curious what their price match terms are.

My understanding is that Tesla uses Panasonic.

They are quoting: Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G5 / SC 315

I have a 11.655kW 37 panel system quoted at $33,217 before incentives. After incentives $1.99 per watt. Probably should be able to negotiate them down a little bit. I don't know why they are quoting 315 watt panels instead of 330 watt that others are using since they maxed out my roof and I'm still only at about 75% offset.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 21, 2019, 04:35:43 PM
So last night, I was doing my due diligence on solar and this site energysage.com kept coming up.

So I signed up and they sent me these quotes thismorning: (after 30% tax credit prices)
Infinity Solar ~ $13,243/6,930 = $1.91 per watt (21 panels using panasonic)
LA Solar Group ~ $16,814/8,580 = $1.95 per watt (26 panels using panasonic)
Solar MAX ~ $14,345/7,590 = $1.89 per watt (23 panels using panasonic)

It looks like Sunrun and Tesla are the big players and more expensive, but the smaller players have better value.

Tesla price matches any quote. What I did was take LA Solar's quote after bartering them down to Tesla and they matched it.

Does Tesla care about which panels and inverters you price match to?  They use Hanwha panels only which aren't very popular among smaller solar installer companies.  Most use LG or Panasonic.   Just curious what their price match terms are.

My understanding is that Tesla uses Panasonic.

They are quoting: Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G5 / SC 315

I have a 11.655kW 37 panel system quoted at $33,217 before incentives. After incentives $1.99 per watt. Probably should be able to negotiate them down a little bit. I don't know why they are quoting 315 watt panels instead of 330 watt that others are using since they maxed out my roof and I'm still only at about 75% offset.

Hole-Moleeey

Do you have like 2 AC units, EV, a pool, electronics galore and doing bitcoin mining?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Kings on May 21, 2019, 04:55:09 PM
So last night, I was doing my due diligence on solar and this site energysage.com kept coming up.

So I signed up and they sent me these quotes thismorning: (after 30% tax credit prices)
Infinity Solar ~ $13,243/6,930 = $1.91 per watt (21 panels using panasonic)
LA Solar Group ~ $16,814/8,580 = $1.95 per watt (26 panels using panasonic)
Solar MAX ~ $14,345/7,590 = $1.89 per watt (23 panels using panasonic)

It looks like Sunrun and Tesla are the big players and more expensive, but the smaller players have better value.

Tesla price matches any quote. What I did was take LA Solar's quote after bartering them down to Tesla and they matched it.

Does Tesla care about which panels and inverters you price match to?  They use Hanwha panels only which aren't very popular among smaller solar installer companies.  Most use LG or Panasonic.   Just curious what their price match terms are.

My understanding is that Tesla uses Panasonic.

They are quoting: Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G5 / SC 315

I have a 11.655kW 37 panel system quoted at $33,217 before incentives. After incentives $1.99 per watt. Probably should be able to negotiate them down a little bit. I don't know why they are quoting 315 watt panels instead of 330 watt that others are using since they maxed out my roof and I'm still only at about 75% offset.

everyone's inventory is a little different depending on when they purchased the panels wholesale and how long they may have been sitting, but generally speaking 315W panels are cheaper than 330W and give the installer a bigger margin
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on May 21, 2019, 04:55:24 PM
So last night, I was doing my due diligence on solar and this site energysage.com kept coming up.

So I signed up and they sent me these quotes thismorning: (after 30% tax credit prices)
Infinity Solar ~ $13,243/6,930 = $1.91 per watt (21 panels using panasonic)
LA Solar Group ~ $16,814/8,580 = $1.95 per watt (26 panels using panasonic)
Solar MAX ~ $14,345/7,590 = $1.89 per watt (23 panels using panasonic)

It looks like Sunrun and Tesla are the big players and more expensive, but the smaller players have better value.

Tesla price matches any quote. What I did was take LA Solar's quote after bartering them down to Tesla and they matched it.

Does Tesla care about which panels and inverters you price match to?  They use Hanwha panels only which aren't very popular among smaller solar installer companies.  Most use LG or Panasonic.   Just curious what their price match terms are.

My understanding is that Tesla uses Panasonic.

They are quoting: Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G5 / SC 315

I have a 11.655kW 37 panel system quoted at $33,217 before incentives. After incentives $1.99 per watt. Probably should be able to negotiate them down a little bit. I don't know why they are quoting 315 watt panels instead of 330 watt that others are using since they maxed out my roof and I'm still only at about 75% offset.

Hole-Moleeey

Do you have like 2 AC units, EV, a pool, electronics galore and doing bitcoin mining?

2 Teslas and my wife and I probably drive combined 35-38k miles annually.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 21, 2019, 04:58:05 PM
Did your quote include battery storage?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on May 21, 2019, 10:20:43 PM
Did your quote include battery storage?

No strictly panels
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: marmott on May 22, 2019, 06:48:12 AM
That is pretty much the pricing i got...but add like 8k for the 2 powerwalls

$8K for 2 Powerwalls? I always wondered how much it would cost. I’ve heard wait time is really long for these.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 22, 2019, 08:24:13 AM
That is pretty much the pricing i got...but add like 8k for the 2 powerwalls

$8K for 2 Powerwalls? I always wondered how much it would cost. I’ve heard wait time is really long for these.

Pretty sure it's $8k for one PW.  It's like $10K before rebate.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on May 22, 2019, 08:54:51 AM
Well if any readers who have had solar for 3+ years would like to chime in on the good and bad of it, that would be helpful.
I'm currently trying to figure out if I want to put more panels on my roof or less.  Sunrun said I only needed 21 panels, but I feel like I need 26+.

I don't want to run into a situation where I'm paying edison $600/year for electricity over runs because I didn't get enough panels.


something interesting I noticed:
Sunrun ~ 21 panels = 6,090 watts = 290 watt panels


The local installers are quoting 330 watt panels.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on May 22, 2019, 09:03:09 AM
That is pretty much the pricing i got...but add like 8k for the 2 powerwalls

$8K for 2 Powerwalls? I always wondered how much it would cost. I’ve heard wait time is really long for these.

Tesla has stock for immediate install (after permitting and all that) right now. Most people are looking for 3rd party installers though because Tesla is maxed out on the SGIP rebate whereas 3rd party can still get $3000+ back.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on May 22, 2019, 09:08:48 AM
11,665 watts / 37 panels = 315 watts per panel.
Thanks cares for your info.


Now I'm wondering if I can get 350 watt panels.


Actually I just got another quote in this morning:
Altair Solar ~ 8,030 watts with 22 panels = 365 watts per panel made by LG.
However, they are $1.99/watt so more expensive than the 330 watt local makers.


Maybe LG panels are bigger than Panasonic panels and that's why they are rated higher.  I'll look into it.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 22, 2019, 09:27:44 AM
Again, a bathroom or a kitchen upgrade probably would be a better roi than solar.

The ROI or solar is around like 10 plus years. If you work from home or have 2 hvac units it might be sooner. Also, look at the weather change. (Kind is gloomy and rainy. Seems like more cooler than before which may effect the panels. I hope they factor that in.)

The payback on a smaller system (ie. 4kw) is around 8 years and can go down to 6 years if you use an above average amount of electricity.  This is not taking into account any price increases from SCE.

I'm not sure how you're getting 10 years.

It all depends. It depends on the SIZE of the system, brand, wall battery, etc.

Didn’t someone on TI say 10 years.

No...most people are around 5 to 8.

Interior remodeling is worst ROI...you never get the same value back. 

Quote
According to Remodeling Magazine (http://www.remodeling.hw.net/) you're less likely to recoup your investment in a major kitchen or bathroom remodel than you are to get back what you spend on basic home maintenance such as new siding. Siding replacement recouped 92.8 percent of its cost, according to the study. The only home improvement likely to return more at resale was a minor (roughly $15,000) kitchen remodel, which returned 92.9 percent. Replacing roofs and windows were also high on the list, returning 80 percent or more at resale.

https://www.hgtv.com/design/decorating/clean-and-organize/which-home-improvements-pay-off

IC  The best ROI is to remodel a kitchen or bathroom.

When someone buys a house one of the first two things they look at is the kitchen and bathroom. I would even say that goes for renters. (Probably not the same when it comes to solar.) So if a person was planning to rent out there place consider doing a small upgrade to those places. That’s if you want to get like top dollar.

Btw - There’s a TI member that has solar panel for his rental and did not get top dollar. As a matter of fact they low balled him. They didn’t care if he had solar or not. Let’s say he had an upgraded kitchen or bathrooms he might have listed his house for rent for top dollar.

maxROI is a live
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: qwerty on May 22, 2019, 09:47:24 AM
I would never buy a house with solar. Hopefully you can opt out of that requirement when buying a new home after that law requiring new homes to have solar kicks in.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 22, 2019, 09:57:09 AM
I would never buy a house with solar. Hopefully you can opt out of that requirement when buying a new home after that law requiring new homes to have solar kicks in.

Why not? Doesn't solar help your monthly costs, esp if you are EVing it?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on May 22, 2019, 09:57:29 AM
11,665 watts / 37 panels = 315 watts per panel.
Thanks cares for your info.


Now I'm wondering if I can get 350 watt panels.


Actually I just got another quote in this morning:
Altair Solar ~ 8,030 watts with 22 panels = 365 watts per panel made by LG.
However, they are $1.99/watt so more expensive than the 330 watt local makers.


Maybe LG panels are bigger than Panasonic panels and that's why they are rated higher.  I'll look into it.

There are huge margins in solar panels. Look at random wholesale prices of panels and take Panasonic 330w as an example.

https://www.wholesalesolar.com/shop/solar-panels#panasonic - $370 per

Using your LA Solar quote that amounts to $9620 in panel cost (they probably get it cheaper).  They are marking you up $23k for labor (putting tax incentive back in). Pretty good margin padding there. Negotiate them down!
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: nosuchreality on May 22, 2019, 10:25:42 AM
Perhaps I'm remembering wrong, but we put our system in over eight  years ago and honestly, the pre-rebate numbers you're talking seem basically the same. We then sucked down a 80% rebate.



Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on May 22, 2019, 10:44:30 AM
Supposedly the panasonic panel can take a 1" hail stone going 55 mph and hold up while the LG panel cannot.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: qwerty on May 22, 2019, 11:24:21 AM
I would never buy a house with solar. Hopefully you can opt out of that requirement when buying a new home after that law requiring new homes to have solar kicks in.

Why not? Doesn't solar help your monthly costs, esp if you are EVing it?

I just don’t like to mess with the structure. The installers can break tiles or perhaps create an opening in your roof that eventually leaks, etc. so would rather not deal with any potential issues regardless of the probability. Then there is the issue of potentially limiting the buying pool should I choose to sell (this piece is less relevant but still something to consider).

Also, it’s easier to put the initial cost of the system in a fund like SPY and use the return there as well to offset my electricity costs. If a system costs 15k, if it returns 6% in the first year that is 900 or about 500 after taxes. My average bill for 2018 was about $150 or about 1800 for the year.

Not concerned about the financial aspect of my electricity usage, it’s just any potential headaches the system may cause that I don’t want to deal with
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 22, 2019, 11:38:14 AM
Also, technology gets cheaper like the flatscreen tv.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 22, 2019, 12:16:18 PM
Not concerned about the financial aspect of my electricity usage, it’s just any potential headaches the system may cause that I don’t want to deal with

I understand this.

But just like any technology, it will become standard in your life... like Internet and streaming media.

Oh... and AI. :)
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on May 22, 2019, 01:02:31 PM
One negative thing solar companies don't explain clearly is that most people on Edison are on  a tier 1, tier 2, tier 3 system:
Tier 1: 0.19 - up to 307 KwH/month
Tier 2: 0.24
Tier 3: 0.45

If you get solar, they will place you on the TOU (time of use) system.
8am-4pm: 0.22
4pm-9pm: 0.42
9pm-8am: 0.22

I think TOU system was calculated as $10 more per month on average.


This was started in 2017.  Before 2017, solar customers could keep the tier system.  So early adopters do get some benefit.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on May 22, 2019, 03:00:30 PM
duplicate
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on May 22, 2019, 03:00:47 PM
Perhaps I'm remembering wrong, but we put our system in over eight  years ago and honestly, the pre-rebate numbers you're talking seem basically the same. We then sucked down a 80% rebate.


I would double check your numbers from 8 years ago.  From what I remember, the cost was around $4.25-$4.75 per watt back then.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 22, 2019, 03:05:12 PM
Perhaps I'm remembering wrong, but we put our system in over eight  years ago and honestly, the pre-rebate numbers you're talking seem basically the same. We then sucked down a 80% rebate.


I would double check your numbers from 8 years ago.  From what I remember, the cost was around $4.25-$4.75 per watt back then.

That means it’s getting cheaper and cheaper?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on May 22, 2019, 03:10:43 PM
Perhaps I'm remembering wrong, but we put our system in over eight  years ago and honestly, the pre-rebate numbers you're talking seem basically the same. We then sucked down a 80% rebate.


I would double check your numbers from 8 years ago.  From what I remember, the cost was around $4.25-$4.75 per watt back then.

That means it’s getting cheaper and cheaper?

Yes.. question is how much cheaper can they get.  Labor costs are going up.  Panel efficiency improvements are slowing down.  Not sure it's worthwhile to wait if you know you're going to go solar.  You'll be missing out on the guaranteed savings in hopes that the prices drop at a faster rate.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 22, 2019, 03:41:41 PM
Prices are inflated higher due to the rebate.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on May 22, 2019, 04:12:09 PM
One negative thing solar companies don't explain clearly is that most people on Edison are on  a tier 1, tier 2, tier 3 system:
Tier 1: 0.19 - up to 307 KwH/month
Tier 2: 0.24
Tier 3: 0.45

If you get solar, they will place you on the TOU (time of use) system.
8am-4pm: 0.22
4pm-9pm: 0.42
9pm-8am: 0.22

I think TOU system was calculated as $10 more per month on average.


This was started in 2017.  Before 2017, solar customers could keep the tier system.  So early adopters do get some benefit.

SCE just eliminated TOU-D-A and TOU-D-B earlier this year. These TOU plans were very good for solar customers as your peak hours (and most $ credit generation) were during sunny hours. Now with 4-9PM and 5-8PM they shifted the highest credits away from sun hours. If you were on TOU-D-A or B before then you would be grandfathered until 2020.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 23, 2019, 08:54:38 AM
One negative thing solar companies don't explain clearly is that most people on Edison are on  a tier 1, tier 2, tier 3 system:
Tier 1: 0.19 - up to 307 KwH/month
Tier 2: 0.24
Tier 3: 0.45

If you get solar, they will place you on the TOU (time of use) system.
8am-4pm: 0.22
4pm-9pm: 0.42
9pm-8am: 0.22

I think TOU system was calculated as $10 more per month on average.


This was started in 2017.  Before 2017, solar customers could keep the tier system.  So early adopters do get some benefit.

The tier system is going to be permanent for everyone soon...so it's not really a big deal.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 23, 2019, 08:56:55 AM
I would never buy a house with solar. Hopefully you can opt out of that requirement when buying a new home after that law requiring new homes to have solar kicks in.

Why not? Doesn't solar help your monthly costs, esp if you are EVing it?

I just don’t like to mess with the structure. The installers can break tiles or perhaps create an opening in your roof that eventually leaks, etc. so would rather not deal with any potential issues regardless of the probability. Then there is the issue of potentially limiting the buying pool should I choose to sell (this piece is less relevant but still something to consider).

Also, it’s easier to put the initial cost of the system in a fund like SPY and use the return there as well to offset my electricity costs. If a system costs 15k, if it returns 6% in the first year that is 900 or about 500 after taxes. My average bill for 2018 was about $150 or about 1800 for the year.

Not concerned about the financial aspect of my electricity usage, it’s just any potential headaches the system may cause that I don’t want to deal with

Well...when the utility companies start shutting down power like 30 times in the summer, you will have to deal with that.

Most installers have a 10 year warranty and the panels/parts have 25 year warranties....which is basically what you get for your existing roof.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on May 23, 2019, 03:17:11 PM
I found a good installer with lots of Yelp reviews currently at $2.61 per watt. This is so cheap compared to my previous install that was barely under $3.00 per watt.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 23, 2019, 03:45:38 PM
I found a good installer with lots of Yelp reviews currently at $2.61 per watt. This is so cheap compared to my previous install that was barely under $3.00 per watt.

Wait. Are you the one that rented out your place with solar and they made a Low Ball Offer?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on May 23, 2019, 04:41:14 PM
It's been 3 days since I dove into this solar power rabbit hole.  Here are the results:


SUNRUN: $14,600/6,090 WATTS = $2.40/WATT (21 PANELS (290 WATT) SOLAREDGE STRING INVERTER W/OPTIMIZER) ~ annual output 9,986
SOLARMAX: $16,198/8,580 WATTS = $1.89/WATT (26 PANELS (330 WATT) SOLAREDGE STRING INVERTER W/OPTIMIZER)~ annual output 13,198
SOLARMAX: $17,417/8,580 WATTS = $2.03/WATT (26 PANELS (330 WATT) ENPHASE MICROINVERTER) ~ annual output 13,198
SOLAR OPTIMUM: $16,336/8,580 WATTS = $1.90/WATT (26 PANELS (330 WATT) ENPHASE MICROINVERTER) ~ annual output 13,513

So I'm probably going with the last one.  I don't really use that much electricity, but I thought I would just add more panels, because fuck it, I got the roof space.  I'll decide who to pick next week and write something on how it goes when I get more info.


Regarding inverters. 
Enphase microinveters are supposedly better because it runs cooler and each solar panel produces it's own electricity while....
Solaredge inverters uses old technology where if one panel is dirty, it affects all the panels, so if 1 panel is 50% all panels work at 50%.


When I asked sunrun to quote 26 panels, the sales guy said "You don't need that much electricity"...So don't quote me then fucker.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 23, 2019, 04:53:14 PM
It's been 3 days since I dove into this solar power rabbit hole.  Here are the results:


SUNRUN: $14,600/6,090 WATTS = $2.40/WATT (21 PANELS (290 WATT) SOLAREDGE STRING INVERTER W/OPTIMIZER) ~ annual output 9,986
SOLARMAX: $16,198/8,580 WATTS = $1.89/WATT (26 PANELS (330 WATT) SOLAREDGE STRING INVERTER W/OPTIMIZER)~ annual output 13,198
SOLARMAX: $17,417/8,580 WATTS = $2.03/WATT (26 PANELS (330 WATT) ENPHASE MICROINVERTER) ~ annual output 13,198
SOLAR OPTIMUM: $16,336/8,580 WATTS = $1.90/WATT (26 PANELS (330 WATT) ENPHASE MICROINVERTER) ~ annual output 13,513

So I'm probably going with the last one.  I don't really use that much electricity, but I thought I would just add more panels, because fuck it, I got the roof space.  I'll decide who to pick next week and write something on how it goes when I get more info.


Regarding inverters. 
Enphase microinveters are supposedly better because it runs cooler and each solar panel produces it's own electricity while....
Solaredge inverters uses old technology where if one panel is dirty, it affects all the panels, so if 1 panel is 50% all panels work at 50%.

Are you getting Battery Pack? (Around $3k or more)
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on May 23, 2019, 04:58:19 PM
I thought I would, but batteries degrade pretty fast.  I think tesla said their batteries die 3% per year.  After 10 years you need to buy a new one?  I'm not sure about that and I'm not going to research it.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 23, 2019, 05:07:54 PM
I thought I would, but batteries degrade pretty fast.  I think tesla said their batteries die 3% per year.  After 10 years you need to buy a new one?  I'm not sure about that and I'm not going to research it.

How about the other brands like LG, etc...?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 23, 2019, 05:59:22 PM
I thought I would, but batteries degrade pretty fast.  I think tesla said their batteries die 3% per year.  After 10 years you need to buy a new one?  I'm not sure about that and I'm not going to research it.

10 year warranty...battery is supposed to be 70% viable after 10 years...that's not bad.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 23, 2019, 06:01:01 PM
I thought I would, but batteries degrade pretty fast.  I think tesla said their batteries die 3% per year.  After 10 years you need to buy a new one?  I'm not sure about that and I'm not going to research it.

How about the other brands like LG, etc...?

Tesla's is best for your money...you get about 14 KwH storage for about $7K (after rebate).  LG's battery is a little less expensive but only 10 kwH for $6K
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: nosuchreality on May 24, 2019, 08:01:26 AM
It's been 3 days since I dove into this solar power rabbit hole.  Here are the results:


SUNRUN: $14,600/6,090 WATTS = $2.40/WATT (21 PANELS (290 WATT) SOLAREDGE STRING INVERTER W/OPTIMIZER) ~ annual output 9,986
SOLARMAX: $16,198/8,580 WATTS = $1.89/WATT (26 PANELS (330 WATT) SOLAREDGE STRING INVERTER W/OPTIMIZER)~ annual output 13,198
SOLARMAX: $17,417/8,580 WATTS = $2.03/WATT (26 PANELS (330 WATT) ENPHASE MICROINVERTER) ~ annual output 13,198
SOLAR OPTIMUM: $16,336/8,580 WATTS = $1.90/WATT (26 PANELS (330 WATT) ENPHASE MICROINVERTER) ~ annual output 13,513

So I'm probably going with the last one.  I don't really use that much electricity, but I thought I would just add more panels, because fuck it, I got the roof space.  I'll decide who to pick next week and write something on how it goes when I get more info.


Regarding inverters. 
Enphase microinveters are supposedly better because it runs cooler and each solar panel produces it's own electricity while....
Solaredge inverters uses old technology where if one panel is dirty, it affects all the panels, so if 1 panel is 50% all panels work at 50%.


When I asked sunrun to quote 26 panels, the sales guy said "You don't need that much electricity"...So don't quote me then fucker.

You might want to check in with your electric provider if they'll sign off on a system thst produces !ore than you use.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on May 24, 2019, 08:43:28 AM
If I'm putting solar panels on my roof, I don't want an Edison "true up" bill at the end of the year.  Even if I use less than what my solar provides, I want to be over covered.  I want my electricity to feel like it's free...or as close to 0 as possible.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Compressed-Village on May 24, 2019, 08:45:19 AM
If I'm putting solar panels on my roof, I don't want an Edison "true up" bill at the end of the year.  Even if I use less than what my solar provides, I want to be over covered.  I want my electricity to feel like it's free...or as close to 0 as possible.

This is the way to go Zub. Now, I have to convince my wife.

Been wanting this.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on May 24, 2019, 08:49:22 AM
Plus I feel like all that real estate on my roof for energy generation would go to waste if I'm not using it for the betterment of society.  All that power I'm creating is benefiting everyone by making Edison not have to make it. 


Why not cover your entire west and south side roof so more electricty can be made?


Actually you can cover your entire roof with solar panels, but the west and south side produce the most electricity.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 24, 2019, 08:56:05 AM
Plus I feel like all that real estate on my roof for energy generation would go to waste if I'm not using it for the betterment of society.  All that power I'm creating is benefiting everyone by making Edison not have to make it. 

That's what I'm saying. If your whole street had solar and batteries, no one would need Edison. :)
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 24, 2019, 08:57:47 AM
For those of us with backyards, how feasible is a non-roof unit?

What's the average size per wattage for solar panels? If I could put it on my patio trellis, that would do dual duty of shade/rain protection and solar.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on May 24, 2019, 09:01:56 AM
There are some problems with it.  I asked this of the sunrun sales guy and he said they only do roof installs.  Plus the tile composition of your roof matters.  If it's concrete it's ok.  If it's clay, then it's harder to do. 

I think you need a special permit to put it on a patio.  These solar panels get real hot and can be a fire hazard.  That's why the inverter matters too as the microinverter runs cooler than the string inverter.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 24, 2019, 09:02:55 AM
Plus I feel like all that real estate on my roof for energy generation would go to waste if I'm not using it for the betterment of society.  All that power I'm creating is benefiting everyone by making Edison not have to make it. 

That's what I'm saying. If your whole street had solar and batteries, no one would need Edison. :)

That's a real thing in about 10 years...utilities needs lots of people to spread out the costs...the more people that go off the grid, the higher the rates will be, which will lead to more people getting off the grid.  Death spiral.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: nosuchreality on May 24, 2019, 09:08:12 AM
If I'm putting solar panels on my roof, I don't want an Edison "true up" bill at the end of the year.  Even if I use less than what my solar provides, I want to be over covered.  I want my electricity to feel like it's free...or as close to 0 as possible.

Minimum  charges, bill will just under $10.  But that's a side issue, LADWP and others are requiring certification by homepwners that they are not over building and no credit will be given for excess energy.

What kind of maintenance does the tesla battery pack have?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on May 24, 2019, 09:08:42 AM
I read that the rooms under your solar panel will be cooler as well.
The panels act like a heat shield.  Not sure how much cooler, or it could just be a sellers gimmick.


After pondering this, I think if you use a microinverter where the panels run cooler than a string inverter, the room under your panels would be cooler.  However, using a string inverter, the solar panels run hot, and so heat shielding has a minimal effect.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 24, 2019, 09:09:09 AM
If I'm putting solar panels on my roof, I don't want an Edison "true up" bill at the end of the year.  Even if I use less than what my solar provides, I want to be over covered.  I want my electricity to feel like it's free...or as close to 0 as possible.

That’s why you need a storage battery.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 24, 2019, 09:11:27 AM
Plus I feel like all that real estate on my roof for energy generation would go to waste if I'm not using it for the betterment of society.  All that power I'm creating is benefiting everyone by making Edison not have to make it. 

That's what I'm saying. If your whole street had solar and batteries, no one would need Edison. :)

That's a real thing in about 10 years...utilities needs lots of people to spread out the costs...the more people that go off the grid, the higher the rates will be, which will lead to more people getting off the grid.  Death spiral.

Then you can argue they might do a Nevada. Claw back the solar benefits or something.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on May 24, 2019, 09:15:25 AM
The grandfathering for the tier 1,2,3 for the early adopters of solar is 20 years (before 2017).  So perhaps edison will give me the present adopter using the Time Of USE  TOU system a grandfathering of 20 years as well.  I'll buy a battery if edison does a clawback.  Don't need one right now.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 24, 2019, 09:16:22 AM
If I'm putting solar panels on my roof, I don't want an Edison "true up" bill at the end of the year.  Even if I use less than what my solar provides, I want to be over covered.  I want my electricity to feel like it's free...or as close to 0 as possible.

Minimum  charges, bill will just under $10.  But that's a side issue, LADWP and others are requiring certification by homepwners that they are not over building and no credit will be given for excess energy.

What kind of maintenance does the tesla battery pack have?

Apparently nothing...Tesla monitors and maintains for 10 years...25 for the panels.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 24, 2019, 09:37:22 AM
The grandfathering for the tier 1,2,3 for the early adopters of solar is 20 years (before 2017).  So perhaps edison will give me the present adopter using the Time Of USE  TOU system a grandfathering of 20 years as well.  I'll buy a battery if edison does a clawback.  Don't need one right now.

The State’s energy commission can change the rules. (look at Nevada)
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on May 24, 2019, 09:39:02 AM
It's been 3 days since I dove into this solar power rabbit hole.  Here are the results:


SUNRUN: $14,600/6,090 WATTS = $2.40/WATT (21 PANELS (290 WATT) SOLAREDGE STRING INVERTER W/OPTIMIZER) ~ annual output 9,986
SOLARMAX: $16,198/8,580 WATTS = $1.89/WATT (26 PANELS (330 WATT) SOLAREDGE STRING INVERTER W/OPTIMIZER)~ annual output 13,198
SOLARMAX: $17,417/8,580 WATTS = $2.03/WATT (26 PANELS (330 WATT) ENPHASE MICROINVERTER) ~ annual output 13,198
SOLAR OPTIMUM: $16,336/8,580 WATTS = $1.90/WATT (26 PANELS (330 WATT) ENPHASE MICROINVERTER) ~ annual output 13,513

So I'm probably going with the last one.  I don't really use that much electricity, but I thought I would just add more panels, because fuck it, I got the roof space.  I'll decide who to pick next week and write something on how it goes when I get more info.


Regarding inverters. 
Enphase microinveters are supposedly better because it runs cooler and each solar panel produces it's own electricity while....
Solaredge inverters uses old technology where if one panel is dirty, it affects all the panels, so if 1 panel is 50% all panels work at 50%.


When I asked sunrun to quote 26 panels, the sales guy said "You don't need that much electricity"...So don't quote me then fucker.

I'm going with Solar Optimum as well it seems. They priced you high though but maybe because I have more volume. I'm at $1.84 after tax credit with them for same panels and inverters.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on May 24, 2019, 09:39:38 AM
I found a good installer with lots of Yelp reviews currently at $2.61 per watt. This is so cheap compared to my previous install that was barely under $3.00 per watt.

Wait. Are you the one that rented out your place with solar and they made a Low Ball Offer?

Yes but I still got them to pay close to what I was asking for.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 24, 2019, 09:41:40 AM
I found a good installer with lots of Yelp reviews currently at $2.61 per watt. This is so cheap compared to my previous install that was barely under $3.00 per watt.

Wait. Are you the one that rented out your place with solar and they made a Low Ball Offer?

Yes but I still got them to pay close to what I was asking for.

Acutually it’s not your fault. There are many supply out there. (many homes for rent)
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 24, 2019, 09:42:32 AM
The grandfathering for the tier 1,2,3 for the early adopters of solar is 20 years (before 2017).  So perhaps edison will give me the present adopter using the Time Of USE  TOU system a grandfathering of 20 years as well.  I'll buy a battery if edison does a clawback.  Don't need one right now.

The State’s energy commission can change the rules. (look at Nevada)

Yes they could but California actually wants to push for green energy...Nevada is super beholdened to special interest.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on May 24, 2019, 09:43:28 AM
I found a good installer with lots of Yelp reviews currently at $2.61 per watt. This is so cheap compared to my previous install that was barely under $3.00 per watt.

Wait. Are you the one that rented out your place with solar and they made a Low Ball Offer?

Yes but I still got them to pay close to what I was asking for.

Acutually it’s not your fault. There are many supply out there. (many homes for rent)

That was in the city of Cerritos at my other house. Rental inventory is actually low for the area. My asking rent was "high". I'm breaking even with just 25% equity in the house which is unheard of in Irvine where you might not even break even with 50%.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on May 24, 2019, 09:45:58 AM
So I'm probably going with the last one.  I don't really use that much electricity, but I thought I would just add more panels, because fuck it, I got the roof space.  I'll decide who to pick next week and write something on how it goes when I get more info.

And by the way because you are going the micro-inverter route, you can always add panels easily versus string inverters so you don't necessarily have to oversize right now.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 24, 2019, 09:50:35 AM
The grandfathering for the tier 1,2,3 for the early adopters of solar is 20 years (before 2017).  So perhaps edison will give me the present adopter using the Time Of USE  TOU system a grandfathering of 20 years as well.  I'll buy a battery if edison does a clawback.  Don't need one right now.

The State’s energy commission can change the rules. (look at Nevada)

Yes they could but California actually wants to push for green energy...Nevada is super beholdened to special interest.

Also, maybe they won’t take all the benefits away. But they can add a tax.

Hypothetical: I can see a scenario that they do an analysis to see the household income. Maybe add additional tax for solar.

Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 24, 2019, 10:15:01 AM
The grandfathering for the tier 1,2,3 for the early adopters of solar is 20 years (before 2017).  So perhaps edison will give me the present adopter using the Time Of USE  TOU system a grandfathering of 20 years as well.  I'll buy a battery if edison does a clawback.  Don't need one right now.

The State’s energy commission can change the rules. (look at Nevada)

Yes they could but California actually wants to push for green energy...Nevada is super beholdened to special interest.

Also, maybe they won’t take all the benefits away. But they can add a tax.

Hypothetical: I can see a scenario that they do an analysis to see the household income. Maybe add additional tax for solar.

They wont...they already mandated that solar panels be put on all new residential constructions.  It would make no sense to hinder people from upgrading on existing residences. 

California already sent a target of being free from carbon power generation by 2045. 

Having people go off the grid actually makes a lot of sense for economic and regulatory reasons.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on May 24, 2019, 10:16:44 AM
I found a good installer with lots of Yelp reviews currently at $2.61 per watt. This is so cheap compared to my previous install that was barely under $3.00 per watt.

Wait. Are you the one that rented out your place with solar and they made a Low Ball Offer?

Yes but I still got them to pay close to what I was asking for.

The closer I come to picking a company, the more I look....
Solar Optimum is in Glendale, CA.  It is freaking far away if anything goes wrong.  So now I'm looking at Infinity Solar.  They have the same equipment, but they are more expensive, but at least they are in Orange.  I'm going to ask them to lower their prices to optimum's.


I'll prob. use your $1.84/watt price and see what they say.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on May 24, 2019, 10:19:14 AM
So I'm probably going with the last one.  I don't really use that much electricity, but I thought I would just add more panels, because fuck it, I got the roof space.  I'll decide who to pick next week and write something on how it goes when I get more info.

And by the way because you are going the micro-inverter route, you can always add panels easily versus string inverters so you don't necessarily have to oversize right now.

The string inverter made by solar max has optimizers on each panel, so you can add more panels in the future....it is a tech upgrade from old string inverters.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on May 24, 2019, 10:30:24 AM
I don't understand what difference it makes being in Glendale vs Irvine. They will come to you and not you going to them.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on May 24, 2019, 10:33:31 AM
Their trucks and service people are 1.5 hours away as opposed to 15-30 min away. 
It matters to me.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 24, 2019, 10:41:58 AM
What about SemperFi Solar? I hear their ads on the radio... veteran owned.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 24, 2019, 10:42:23 AM
The grandfathering for the tier 1,2,3 for the early adopters of solar is 20 years (before 2017).  So perhaps edison will give me the present adopter using the Time Of USE  TOU system a grandfathering of 20 years as well.  I'll buy a battery if edison does a clawback.  Don't need one right now.

The State’s energy commission can change the rules. (look at Nevada)

Yes they could but California actually wants to push for green energy...Nevada is super beholdened to special interest.

Also, maybe they won’t take all the benefits away. But they can add a tax.

Hypothetical: I can see a scenario that they do an analysis to see the household income. Maybe add additional tax for solar.

They wont...they already mandated that solar panels be put on all new residential constructions.  It would make no sense to hinder people from upgrading on existing residences. 

California already sent a target of being free from carbon power generation by 2045. 

Having people go off the grid actually makes a lot of sense for economic and regulatory reasons.

To be honest that might be roll backed. It costs darn too much to do that.

The California Democrats legislation needs to becareful passing laws that are way to expensive to achieve. The voter base will revolt. As the little guy will get totally shafted both ways.

It’s like wait a minute you want me to get panels, but I can barely afford to get by. (Pay check to paycheck/getting advances on paychecks is the norm.)

Wild card: This is why I think they might subsidize the cost and make it dirt cheap.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on May 24, 2019, 10:45:13 AM
Their trucks and service people are 1.5 hours away as opposed to 15-30 min away. 
It matters to me.

Just to set your expectation, no one is going to same day service your solar panels. They will make an appointment with you. So say they will be there in a week bewteen 9am-12pm then who cares where they come from?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 24, 2019, 10:48:51 AM

To be honest that might be roll backed. It costs darn too much to do that.

The California Democrats legislation needs to becareful passing laws that are way to expensive to achieve. The voter base will revolt. As the little guy will get totally shafted both ways.

It’s like wait a minute you want me to get panels, but I can barely afford to get by. (Pay check to paycheck/getting advances on paychecks is the norm.)

Wild card: This is why I think they might subsidize the cost and make it dirt cheap.

What?  It's already in place...it is set to be in effect for 2020.

Quote
In the long-term, solar panels benefit homeowners. While the upfront cost for building a home will increase—by as much as $10,000, according to the California Energy Commission, or as much as $25,000-30,000, according to home construction company Meritage Homes—long-term energy bill savings will be considerable.

Reuters reports that a homeowner could expect to save $19,000 in energy costs over 30 years, while Meritage Homes predicts reduced operating costs could amount to as much as $50,000-60,000 over a 25-year period.

http://fortune.com/2018/12/06/california-solar-panels-new-homes/

This is not a requirement for existing homes...people buying new homes are not exactly going paycheck to paycheck. 
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 24, 2019, 10:51:54 AM

To be honest that might be roll backed. It costs darn too much to do that.

The California Democrats legislation needs to becareful passing laws that are way to expensive to achieve. The voter base will revolt. As the little guy will get totally shafted both ways.

It’s like wait a minute you want me to get panels, but I can barely afford to get by. (Pay check to paycheck/getting advances on paychecks is the norm.)

Wild card: This is why I think they might subsidize the cost and make it dirt cheap.

What?  It's already in place...it is set to be in effect for 2020.

Quote
In the long-term, solar panels benefit homeowners. While the upfront cost for building a home will increase—by as much as $10,000, according to the California Energy Commission, or as much as $25,000-30,000, according to home construction company Meritage Homes—long-term energy bill savings will be considerable.

Reuters reports that a homeowner could expect to save $19,000 in energy costs over 30 years, while Meritage Homes predicts reduced operating costs could amount to as much as $50,000-60,000 over a 25-year period.

http://fortune.com/2018/12/06/california-solar-panels-new-homes/

This is not a requirement for existing homes...people buying new homes are not exactly going paycheck to paycheck.

I’m talking about the 2045 goal. Unless they give away money. I don’t see how the average guy working minimum wage or above can afford solar. Unless they make it dirttttt cheap.

Or they have a private report/analysis that solar cost will drop by then. (Just guessing)
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 24, 2019, 10:54:25 AM

To be honest that might be roll backed. It costs darn too much to do that.

The California Democrats legislation needs to becareful passing laws that are way to expensive to achieve. The voter base will revolt. As the little guy will get totally shafted both ways.

It’s like wait a minute you want me to get panels, but I can barely afford to get by. (Pay check to paycheck/getting advances on paychecks is the norm.)

Wild card: This is why I think they might subsidize the cost and make it dirt cheap.

What?  It's already in place...it is set to be in effect for 2020.

Quote
In the long-term, solar panels benefit homeowners. While the upfront cost for building a home will increase—by as much as $10,000, according to the California Energy Commission, or as much as $25,000-30,000, according to home construction company Meritage Homes—long-term energy bill savings will be considerable.

Reuters reports that a homeowner could expect to save $19,000 in energy costs over 30 years, while Meritage Homes predicts reduced operating costs could amount to as much as $50,000-60,000 over a 25-year period.

http://fortune.com/2018/12/06/california-solar-panels-new-homes/

This is not a requirement for existing homes...people buying new homes are not exactly going paycheck to paycheck.

I’m talking about the 2045 goal. Unless they give away money. I don’t see how the average guy working minimum wage or above can afford solar. Unless they make it dirttttt cheap.

It's a goal...and it's not just about residential solar panels.  It's about shift power generation from carbon sources to green energy for utilities.  It's about encourage businesses and landlords to install solar panels/alternative energy. 

2045 is 25 years away...think about what technology looked like 25 years ago.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on May 24, 2019, 10:55:49 AM
Their trucks and service people are 1.5 hours away as opposed to 15-30 min away. 
It matters to me.

Just to set your expectation, no one is going to same day service your solar panels. They will make an appointment with you. So say they will be there in a week bewteen 9am-12pm then who cares where they come from?

I expect that the company that is closer to me will have more flexibility when it comes to scheduling service.  When you ask solar optimum to come out, they will look on their schedule and try to put all their services out in Irvine on the same day.  When you ask infinity solar to come out, they will have more open days to come out because of proximity to their truck yard.


no company wants their service people wasting time driving 3 hours round trip.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 24, 2019, 10:57:30 AM

To be honest that might be roll backed. It costs darn too much to do that.

The California Democrats legislation needs to becareful passing laws that are way to expensive to achieve. The voter base will revolt. As the little guy will get totally shafted both ways.

It’s like wait a minute you want me to get panels, but I can barely afford to get by. (Pay check to paycheck/getting advances on paychecks is the norm.)

Wild card: This is why I think they might subsidize the cost and make it dirt cheap.

What?  It's already in place...it is set to be in effect for 2020.

Quote
In the long-term, solar panels benefit homeowners. While the upfront cost for building a home will increase—by as much as $10,000, according to the California Energy Commission, or as much as $25,000-30,000, according to home construction company Meritage Homes—long-term energy bill savings will be considerable.

Reuters reports that a homeowner could expect to save $19,000 in energy costs over 30 years, while Meritage Homes predicts reduced operating costs could amount to as much as $50,000-60,000 over a 25-year period.

http://fortune.com/2018/12/06/california-solar-panels-new-homes/

This is not a requirement for existing homes...people buying new homes are not exactly going paycheck to paycheck.

I’m talking about the 2045 goal. Unless they give away money. I don’t see how the average guy working minimum wage or above can afford solar. Unless they make it dirttttt cheap.

It's a goal...and it's not just about residential solar panels.  It's about shift power generation from carbon sources to green energy for utilities.  It's about encourage businesses and landlords to install solar panels/alternative energy. 

2045 is 25 years away...think about what technology looked like 25 years ago.

Just imagine if you are on fixed income and they want you to get high prices solar.

Hey it’s about the pocketbook. Farmers are not that happy about the tarriffs . People that don’t care about politics, but the tax salt deductions are not happy. (Just like the CNBC video I posted, people are tweeting the hosts about the salt deductions.)
People only care about what affects them and forcing people to get solar is a big time issue. So I can’t eat or pay my rent and I need to get solar!!!
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 24, 2019, 11:24:59 AM

Just imagine if you are on fixed income and they want you to get high prices solar.

Hey it’s about the pocketbook. Farmers are not that happy about the tarriffs . People that don’t care about politics, but the tax salt deductions are not happy. (Just like the CNBC video I posted, people are tweeting the hosts about the salt deductions.)
People only care about what affects them and forcing people to get solar is a big time issue. So I can’t eat or pay my rent and I need to get solar!!!

No one is telling anyone to get anything.  There are going to be subsidies and tax breaks...people said the same things about retrofitting building for energy efficiency and to efforts to reduce water consumption. 

At some point, you need to be proactive...it's what makes California great.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 24, 2019, 12:07:35 PM

It's a goal...and it's not just about residential solar panels.  It's about shift power generation from carbon sources to green energy for utilities.  It's about encourage businesses and landlords to install solar panels/alternative energy. 

2045 is 25 years away...think about what technology looked like 25 years ago.

Just imagine if you are on fixed income and they want you to get high prices solar.

Hey it’s about the pocketbook. Farmers are not that happy about the tarriffs . People that don’t care about politics, but the tax salt deductions are not happy. (Just like the CNBC video I posted, people are tweeting the hosts about the salt deductions.)
People only care about what affects them and forcing people to get solar is a big time issue. So I can’t eat or pay my rent and I need to get solar!!!

No one is telling anyone to get anything.  There are going to be subsidies and tax breaks...people said the same things about retrofitting building for energy efficiency and to efforts to reduce water consumption. 

At some point, you need to be proactive...it's what makes California great.
[/quote]

You are stretching it. Water consumption is different than getting forced to get solar. If the state forced you to get a $10k-$20k rain container system to catch the water when it rains then I think you can compare it with solar. But they didn’t.

Your statement that a subsidy/tax break may need to happen proves my point.
Or else the average guy needs to choose between food, rent, legal drug precriptions or SOLAR. (Due to the mandate)

This can be a potential political diaster. (Big time)

Maybe they should share with us a forecast report that they predict solar will be dirt cheap if they have one. (If not my theory might be correct.)

Paycheck to paycheck = can’t afford solar (so change the mandate)
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 24, 2019, 12:28:58 PM
Plus the roi doesn’t make sense. If you ask a business to buy a machine they don’t really need and it might take 8-15 years to break even. (Factoring the battery cost with solar panels, to get like the true bang out of solar panels.)

Most likely the business won’t get the machine that they really don’t need.

Just say you want to be more green.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 24, 2019, 12:35:12 PM
Plus the roi doesn’t make sense. If you ask a business to buy a machine they don’t really need and it might take 8-15 years to break even. (Factoring the battery cost, to get the true bang out of solar.)

Most likely the business won’t get the machine that they really don’t need.

Just say you want to be more green.

You keep saying that...Business love stability...solar power gives them that.  They don't have worry about power disruptions, changing rates, and have the potential to scale up whenever they like.    They can also sell the use of solar to their customers...a ton of commercial builders tout how green their buildings are...they can even offer power/energy credits to their customers.

California also has a cap and trade system...shifting to solar power helps businesses reduce their carbon footprint. 
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 24, 2019, 12:47:38 PM

You are stretching it. Water consumption is different than getting forced to get solar. If the state forced you to get a $10k-$20k rain container system to catch the water when it rains then I think you can compare it with solar. But they didn’t.

Your statement that a subsidy/tax break may need to happen proves my point.
Or else the average guy needs to choose between food, rent, legal drug precriptions or SOLAR. (Due to the mandate)

This can be a potential political diaster. (Big time)

Maybe they should share with us a forecast report that they predict solar will be dirt cheap if they have one. (If not my theory might be correct.)

Paycheck to paycheck = can’t afford solar (so change the mandate)

Who is telling the "average" guy to choose between necessity or solar power?  Why do you keep propping up this strawman?

Do people who live paycheck to paycheck now not pay for power now?

Just like California increased higher and higher emission and mileage standards...people seem to deal with that fine.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on May 24, 2019, 12:57:22 PM
Plus the roi doesn’t make sense. If you ask a business to buy a machine they don’t really need and it might take 8-15 years to break even. (Factoring the battery cost, to get the true bang out of solar.)

Most likely the business won’t get the machine that they really don’t need.

Just say you want to be more green.

You keep saying that...Business love stability...solar power gives them that.  They don't have worry about power disruptions, changing rates, and have the potential to scale up whenever they like.    They can also sell the use of solar to their customers...a ton of commercial builders tout how green their buildings are...they can even offer power/energy credits to their customers.

California also has a cap and trade system...shifting to solar power helps businesses reduce their carbon footprint.

My office just installed a HUGE solar array plus got like 50x Tesla commercial version of their Powerwalls.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 24, 2019, 12:58:20 PM
Plus the roi doesn’t make sense. If you ask a business to buy a machine they don’t really need and it might take 8-15 years to break even. (Factoring the battery cost, to get the true bang out of solar.)

Most likely the business won’t get the machine that they really don’t need.

Just say you want to be more green.

You keep saying that...Business love stability...solar power gives them that.  They don't have worry about power disruptions, changing rates, and have the potential to scale up whenever they like.    They can also sell the use of solar to their customers...a ton of commercial builders tout how green their buildings are...they can even offer power/energy credits to their customers.

California also has a cap and trade system...shifting to solar power helps businesses reduce their carbon footprint.

Just use the concept of 8-15 years of break even point. Machine equipment that they don’t need.

You are stretching it again.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 24, 2019, 01:01:42 PM
Plus the roi doesn’t make sense. If you ask a business to buy a machine they don’t really need and it might take 8-15 years to break even. (Factoring the battery cost, to get the true bang out of solar.)

Most likely the business won’t get the machine that they really don’t need.

Just say you want to be more green.

You keep saying that...Business love stability...solar power gives them that.  They don't have worry about power disruptions, changing rates, and have the potential to scale up whenever they like.    They can also sell the use of solar to their customers...a ton of commercial builders tout how green their buildings are...they can even offer power/energy credits to their customers.

California also has a cap and trade system...shifting to solar power helps businesses reduce their carbon footprint.

Just use the concept of 8-15 years of break even point. Machine equipment that they don’t need.

You are stretching it again.

Because there are a lot of things businesses consider beyond straight ROI.

Quote
Solar’s changing economics are already influencing business consumption and investment. In consumption, a number of companies with large physical footprints and high power costs are installing commercial-scale rooftop solar systems, often at less than the current price of buying power from a utility. For example, Wal-Mart Stores has stated that it will switch to 100 percent renewable power by 2020, up from around 20 percent today. Mining and defense companies are looking to solar in remote and demanding environments. In the hospitality sector, Starwood Hotels and Resorts has partnered with NRG Solar to begin installing solar at its hotels. Verizon is spending $100 million on solar and fuel-cell technology to power its facilities and cell-network infrastructure. Why are companies doing such things? To diversify their energy supply, save money, and appeal to consumers. These steps are preliminary, but if they work, solar initiatives could scale up fast.

As for investment, solar’s long-term contracts and relative insulation from fuel-price fluctuations are proving increasingly attractive. The cost of capital also is falling. Institutional investors, insurance companies, and major banks are becoming more comfortable with the risks (such as weather uncertainty and the reliability of components) associated with long-term ownership of solar assets. Accordingly, investors are more and more willing to underwrite long-term debt positions for solar, often at costs of capital lower than those of traditional project finance.

https://www.mckinsey.com/business-functions/sustainability/our-insights/the-disruptive-potential-of-solar-power

There is a reason why airlines lock in fuel prices for like 10 year windows...it may not be the cheapest but it provides stability.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 24, 2019, 01:10:44 PM
I guess these companies don't know any better:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/28/10-massive-corporations-going-big-on-solar-power.html

Storage, not installation of panels, has always been the biggest issue for renewable energy because they are dependent on natural elements and thus you can't just turn them on whenever you like.  But that becomes less and less of an issue in recent years.

Li-ion technology has greatly improved but the future has so many potential options.

https://www.saftbatteries.com/media-resources/our-stories/three-battery-technologies-could-power-future

https://archpaper.com/2018/11/energy-vault-gravity-powered-battery-35-ton-concrete-blocks/

https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/electric-power-and-natural-gas/our-insights/why-the-future-of-commercial-battery-storage-is-bright
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 24, 2019, 01:12:48 PM
So let’s talk about companies going solar. They will save money. Is there break even point 8-15 years? Probably not.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on May 24, 2019, 01:15:41 PM
So let’s talk about companies going solar. They will save money. Is there break even point 8-15 years? Probably not.

Wait why would you say there isn't a break even in 8-15 years? All solar projects will have an eventual break even point probably less than 10 years at the current cost of panels.

My personal home system being quoted is between 5-6 years.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 24, 2019, 01:16:45 PM
I think your solar threat is outrages and you won’t adress the points. Your bringing water consumption reduction and comparing it to solar. This is starting to waste my time.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Kings on May 24, 2019, 01:16:59 PM
companies have even more incentive to go solar and it will generally pay back quicker than residential homeowners because companies can take advantage of 100% depreciation in the first year.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 24, 2019, 01:18:33 PM
So let’s talk about companies going solar. They will save money. Is there break even point 8-15 years? Probably not.

Energy has always been a cost...so the ability to stabilize costs while there is a future for it no longer being a cost are incredibly attractive.

It would be like comparing leasing versus buying a car...yes you can pay less now but with buying, you have an end date to those payments.  Plenty of people  keep their cars beyond the 5-7 years it takes to break even.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 24, 2019, 01:21:49 PM
So let’s talk about companies going solar. They will save money. Is there break even point 8-15 years? Probably not.

Wait why would you say there isn't a break even in 8-15 years? All solar projects will have an eventual break even point probably less than 10 years at the current cost of panels.

My personal home system being quoted is between 5-6 years.

But if you add the Tesla wall battery or 2 another $7k x 2 = $14k. (Is that including installation and warranty?)

For optimal performance. That what I hear. What do I know? But it make sense that you use the energy from the day to night and that you don’t have to use the electric company during night.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 24, 2019, 01:22:19 PM
companies have even more incentive to go solar and it will generally pay back quicker than residential homeowners because companies can take advantage of 100% depreciation in the first year.

Exactly
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 24, 2019, 01:25:33 PM
I think your solar threat is outrages and you won’t adress the points. Your bringing water consumption reduction and comparing it to solar. This is starting to waste my time.

There are these things call batteries.

I feel like you believe companies/people only work on a spreadsheet level, when in reality there are a lot of important factors to consider for both people and businesses when they make decisions. 

I was talking about California's mandates on those issues...in fact, the mandate to reduce water has been much more draconian.  State actually mandated that cities reduces their usage by specific percentage over the last few years...they have also imposed water restrictions on various businesses while allowing water rates and incentives to convince people to reduce water consumption.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/california-governor-orders-25-reduction-in-water-usage-statewide/?redirect=1

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/05/31/california-drought-jerry-brown-sets-permanent-water-conservation-rules-with-new-laws/

https://www.kqed.org/science/1915327/drought-rules-lone-gone-yet-california-keeps-saving-water

We all seem to be doing okay.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 24, 2019, 01:36:34 PM
This was the exact same discussion that people had about car emission and fuel standards that California put into place.  It will be too expensive, too burdensome, and technologically impossible.

Quote
If the air quality arguments for tough rules today mimic those of 1967, so do the arguments for regulatory restraint. “I was distressed to learn that the Senate Public Works Committee has voted approval of an air pollution bill that would require that 1975-model cars have a 90 per cent reduction in emissions from 1970 models,” wrote General Motors’ president E.M. Cole to the Senate in September, 1970. “As ‘you may recall, in our meeting Aug. 25 I stated that General Motors does not at this time know how to get production vehicles down to the emission levels that your bill would require for 1975 models, ” he continued. “Accomplishment of these goals, as far as we now know, simply is not technologically possible within the time frame required.”

Technically, Cole was right, in that it took a few years longer to reach the EPA’s mandate, But it was far from impossible. GM cars eventually met the emission standards of the 1970 Clean Air Act a couple of years later.

When the new federal standards were being proposed, according to a 1973 research paper by Congressional Quarterly, “The Society of Automotive Engineers predicted that,” — at a time when the average car cost less than $5,000 — “catalytic converters could add $860 to the price and operating costs of 1976 models, compared with 1970 models.” But a 2004 study done for the Air Resources Board by Institute of Transportation Studies University of California, Davis found that eight cost analyses showed that, at most, the per-car price increase was half that amount. Like Cole’s prediction, the automotive engineers’ warning was significantly exaggerated.

https://earth.stanford.edu/news/californias-vehicle-emissions-fight-continues-50-year-struggle#gs.dl9rce

That was clearly wrong by a lot.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 24, 2019, 01:48:44 PM
When new home prices go up for no reason, you don't look at ROI.

So when solar is getting added to a new home (at additional cost), why would you consider ROI?

For existing homes, and you do kitchen/bath renovation, ROI is only considered if you sell and then even at that, you have no idea if it was due to appreciation or whatever.

If you do solar, not only do you protect yourself against rising utility costs, but it also allows you to save money on gas consumption if you are also driving an EV. To me that's a better "ROI"... and you can run your AC more often. :)

Because solar is a reduction of utility use, I'm not sure you can apply just an ROI argument to it.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 24, 2019, 01:53:29 PM
When new home prices go up for no reason, you don't look at ROI.

So when solar is getting added to a new home (at additional cost), why would you consider ROI?

For existing homes, and you do kitchen/bath renovation, ROI is only considered if you sell and then even at that, you have no idea if it was due to appreciation or whatever.

If you do solar, not only do you protect yourself against rising utility costs, but it also allows you to save money on gas consumption if you are also driving an EV. To me that's a better "ROI"... and you can run your AC more often. :)

Because solar is a reduction of utility use, I'm not sure you can apply just an ROI argument to it.

Yeah...I don't understand the argument.  The ROI for kitchen/bathroom remodel decreases as you go away from the remodel.  If you remodel just before you sell, you can see good ROI but you would get next to no ROI if your remodel was 5 to 7 year prior.  You may enjoy your bathroom or kitchen more but it is basically utilitarian return, not financial.

With solar panels...your ROI is immediate.  You are already paying for power so that cost is immediately eliminate...that elimination of cost is at least 10-20 years in length.  So you can actually calculate the return as you go along.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 24, 2019, 02:06:29 PM
Call it what you want ROI or break even analysis. Ask the TI members that got solar or researching solar. They know what I’m talking about.

When new home prices go up for no reason, you don't look at ROI.

So when solar is getting added to a new home (at additional cost), why would you consider ROI?

For existing homes, and you do kitchen/bath renovation, ROI is only considered if you sell and then even at that, you have no idea if it was due to appreciation or whatever.

If you do solar, not only do you protect yourself against rising utility costs, but it also allows you to save money on gas consumption if you are also driving an EV. To me that's a better "ROI"... and you can run your AC more often. :)

Because solar is a reduction of utility use, I'm not sure you can apply just an ROI argument to it.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on May 24, 2019, 02:10:08 PM
I hope the smart folks here don't confuse ROI and break even analysis...

My solar will provide a 18.4% ROI with 5.2 year break even. Better than S&P500 off the bat. Considering I'm hedged against rising cost of utility too.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 24, 2019, 02:21:27 PM
I hope the smart folks here don't confuse ROI and break even analysis...

Good point you brought it up. Does it add value to your home? Can you get more rent? With your example for renting. It did not. House in Cerritos and a good school district. (Isn’t Whitney HS ranked higher than high schools in Irvine?)  I really don’t know if you can sell your house and ask for more.

Break even analysis: How many years would it take me to recover the cost of the whole system? (the amount you pay a month times 12 month) Also, inclide the cost of batrrry backup for optimal performance. (You need power windows for your car. Wink)


Fail grade to MAXROI and fail to break even on the amount of time it will take to recover the cost with the solar battery back up)

Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on May 24, 2019, 02:24:20 PM
I already said that the rent I was asking was at a premium already. Like I mentioned I rented at a price that breaks even PITI with only 25% equity. In the Irvine market, I have more than 50% equity in my home and I wouldn't be able to rent break even. So my tenants "low balling" me is a misnomer. They low balled what I was asking but they are still paying high rent.

Inherently it adds value to the home. The only question is if the market is willing to pay a premium for it. Probably not. If you were comparing 2 homes that were alike though, I would easily go for the home with solar even paying a premium. Especially if I can roll the cost of it into my home financing.

A battery does very little in southern California. Grid reliability is pretty high so it takes out the value proposition for many about having redundancy. It leaves the only true benefit for load shifting. Unfortunately with new SCE TOU rates the difference between peak and off-peak is so small that load shifting has small marginal benefit. So I don't know where you got the thought that you have to have a backup battery for maximum effectiveness. Solar panels by themselves are very cost effective alone.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 24, 2019, 02:42:21 PM
I already said that the rent I was asking was at a premium already. Like I mentioned I rented at a price that breaks even PITI with only 25% equity. In the Irvine market, I have more than 50% equity in my home and I wouldn't be able to rent break even. So my tenants "low balling" me is a misnomer. They low balled what I was asking but they are still paying high rent.

Inherently it adds value to the home. The only question is if the market is willing to pay a premium for it. Probably not. If you were comparing 2 homes that were alike though, I would easily go for the home with solar even paying a premium. Especially if I can roll the cost of it into my home financing.

A battery does very little in southern California. Grid reliability is pretty high so it takes out the value proposition for many about having redundancy. It leaves the only true benefit for load shifting. Unfortunately with new SCE TOU rates the difference between peak and off-peak is so small that load shifting has small marginal benefit. So I don't know where you got the thought that you have to have a backup battery for maximum effectiveness. Solar panels by themselves are very cost effective alone.

I'm doing it because my peak panel capacity may not be sufficient to meet my needs so I would like some level of hedge but if you have the roof space..adding a few more panels adds very little in the overall cost.

Also...with all the new homes having solar as a norm...having a resale with solar could make it more comparable, especially with people who already have EV cars.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 24, 2019, 02:47:40 PM
Call it what you want ROI or break even analysis. Ask the TI members that got solar or researching solar. They know what I’m talking about.

When new home prices go up for no reason, you don't look at ROI.

So when solar is getting added to a new home (at additional cost), why would you consider ROI?

For existing homes, and you do kitchen/bath renovation, ROI is only considered if you sell and then even at that, you have no idea if it was due to appreciation or whatever.

If you do solar, not only do you protect yourself against rising utility costs, but it also allows you to save money on gas consumption if you are also driving an EV. To me that's a better "ROI"... and you can run your AC more often. :)

Because solar is a reduction of utility use, I'm not sure you can apply just an ROI argument to it.

You mean like me? 

Also...it seems like everyone who is considering/looking at solar power found it to be a good value/proposition for a number of reasons.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on May 24, 2019, 06:10:19 PM
Even break even doesn’t really apply.

The difference is utility.

Do you do a break even analysis when you install a tankless water heater, an RO water system or a new AC unit? When you replace your roof or do termite service? People spend thousands on big screen/audio/entertainment system and they aren’t calculating when that will get paid off.

Most people making the choice for solar is because it’s cheaper than what Edison is charging (sun is free) and it allows them to use more electricity for EVs, AC and bitcoin mining servers.

The big tipper for me is EVs. 5 years ago wasn’t prime time but now that every automaker is going electric you have to think about reducing charging costs.

Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on May 28, 2019, 02:53:19 PM
If you are considering solar, you guys should really use energysage.com
I have 6 solar companies fighting each other to get my business, and it's so easy to compare each one and play them off each other.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on May 28, 2019, 03:01:58 PM
If you are considering solar, you guys should really use energysage.com
I have 6 solar companies fighting each other to get my business, and it's so easy to compare each one and play them off each other.

Yep just like negotiating with car sales people. Call dealerships back and forth until you get the price you want. You can even tell them you have a quote at $x/watt and see if they will budge. Some will ask for a copy of the quote while others might budge a little.

Tesla I learned will not price match anymore since they lowered their pricing.

I'm moving forward with Solar Optimum.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on May 28, 2019, 03:05:19 PM
Do you know of a car website that does the same thing as energysage?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on May 28, 2019, 03:26:39 PM
Do you know of a car website that does the same thing as energysage?

I typically start with Costco pricing. Take that price and reduce it more (something reasonable) and start calling dealers. You can also use TrueCar to see "market average" and lowball that number and use it as your negotiation base. Just tell them "I'm ready to buy today and I want the best price. This is the price I have now can you beat it?"

I usually start by calling dealerships that I likely won't ever go to since they are so far to get their pricing. Slowly work my way geographically closer to me.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 28, 2019, 04:10:38 PM
Do you know of a car website that does the same thing as energysage?

I start with invoice and take like 15% off of that to start.  I then email every dealership in SoCal...cut and paste.  Takes like 15 minutes. 

Then I get a few offers and start playing them off of each other.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zovall on May 31, 2019, 08:39:55 AM
It's been 3 days since I dove into this solar power rabbit hole.  Here are the results:

SUNRUN: $14,600/6,090 WATTS = $2.40/WATT (21 PANELS (290 WATT) SOLAREDGE STRING INVERTER W/OPTIMIZER) ~ annual output 9,986
SOLARMAX: $16,198/8,580 WATTS = $1.89/WATT (26 PANELS (330 WATT) SOLAREDGE STRING INVERTER W/OPTIMIZER)~ annual output 13,198
SOLARMAX: $17,417/8,580 WATTS = $2.03/WATT (26 PANELS (330 WATT) ENPHASE MICROINVERTER) ~ annual output 13,198
SOLAR OPTIMUM: $16,336/8,580 WATTS = $1.90/WATT (26 PANELS (330 WATT) ENPHASE MICROINVERTER) ~ annual output 13,513

This is great info, thanks for sharing! I think you mentioned in an earlier post that the quotes were after accounting for the 30% tax credit.

I still stand by what I wrote a few years back: https://www.talkirvine.com/index.php/topic,14007.msg282308.html#msg282308

I paid $2.75/watt (gross, pre-tax credit cost) in 2015 for 285W SolarWorld panels and SolarEdge inverter/optimizers and the install was done by Solar Optimum.

I've had friends recently get installs done for $2.60-$2.65/watt (pre-tax credit) for 315W LG panels and a SolarEdge inverter via Aikyum (https://www.yelp.com/biz/aikyum-solar-irvine)


Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on May 31, 2019, 09:25:00 AM
I already said that the rent I was asking was at a premium already. Like I mentioned I rented at a price that breaks even PITI with only 25% equity. In the Irvine market, I have more than 50% equity in my home and I wouldn't be able to rent break even. So my tenants "low balling" me is a misnomer. They low balled what I was asking but they are still paying high rent.

Inherently it adds value to the home. The only question is if the market is willing to pay a premium for it. Probably not. If you were comparing 2 homes that were alike though, I would easily go for the home with solar even paying a premium. Especially if I can roll the cost of it into my home financing.

A battery does very little in southern California. Grid reliability is pretty high so it takes out the value proposition for many about having redundancy. It leaves the only true benefit for load shifting. Unfortunately with new SCE TOU rates the difference between peak and off-peak is so small that load shifting has small marginal benefit. So I don't know where you got the thought that you have to have a backup battery for maximum effectiveness. Solar panels by themselves are very cost effective alone.

Calmatters Article:Southern California Edison new rate plan jeopardizes renewable energy


“California’s power companies have rolled out a “time-of-use” system designed to promote energy use during the hours where clean electricity is abundant due to overproduction by solar systems and when energy usage by air conditioners and home electronics are at their peak. This means less energy wasted and more value delivered to solar homeowners.

For SCE customers who have solar energy, this means they currently enjoy peak time on Monday through Friday, from 2 p.m.-8 p.m. During these times, the cost of energy from the grid is the highest, but so is the amount that SCE will pay homeowners if they overproduce. Because these are generally the sunniest hours of the day, solar homeowners tend to come out ahead.

This is all about to change this month when these peak times will be pushed back to 4 p.m. through 9 p.m., a less efficient window of time for solar.

For solar homeowners, this means fewer opportunities to sell their energy surpluses at the best price and a bigger chunk of the day they in which they will pay higher costs for energy used when solar systems are in the dark or less efficient.

This will make home solar systems a less attractive investment at a time when we need to increase the adoption of renewable energy on a mass scale, especially if we seek to meet the state’s new renewables mandate.”

https://calmatters.org/articles/commentary/southern-california-edison-new-rate-plan-jeopardizes-renewable-energy/

What are your thoughts?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on May 31, 2019, 09:27:45 AM
To compensate, I went from a 21 solar panel unit to a 30 solar panel unit.  This cost about $5000 more after 30% tax credit.
These panels supposedly will now generate 16,000 kWh per annum.  I only used 9,300 kWh last year.


21 * 330 = 6,930 system (this system generates 10,000 kWh in CA weather)
30 * 330 = 9,900 system (this system generates 16,000 kWh in CA weather)


Why leave all that unused real estate on my rooftop?
This is like recycling or using less gas...a public good.  ya'll should thank me.


I'm still salty that sunrun kid told me I only needed a 21 panel system when I wanted more.
Like most people after getting solar, you will use more electricity.  That true up bill from edison at end of the year should be $0.  However, I will still pay about $120 to edison per annum for maintenance.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on May 31, 2019, 10:13:37 AM
To compensate, I went from a 21 solar panel unit to a 30 solar panel unit.  This cost about $5000 more after 30% tax credit.
These panels supposedly will now generate 16,000 kWh per annum.  I only used 9,300 kWh last year.


21 * 330 = 6,930 system (this system generates 10,000 kWh in CA weather)
30 * 330 = 9,900 system (this system generates 16,000 kWh in CA weather)


Why leave all that unused real estate on my rooftop?
This is like recycling or using less gas...a public good.  ya'll should thank me.


I'm still salty that sunrun kid told me I only needed a 21 panel system when I wanted more.
Like most people after getting solar, you will use more electricity.  That true up bill from edison at end of the year should be $0.  However, I will still pay about $120 to edison per annum for maintenance.

Does the math work out though?  You spent an extra $5k to get a larger system which allows you to sell excess kwh back to SCE @ .03/kwh.  $5k with a long term investment horizon (ie. 100% equities) would yield ~7-8% / yr.  My calculation shows you would have been better dumping the $5k in the market.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on May 31, 2019, 10:38:47 AM
Yes it's not for financial gain.  It's to help the community and to let me blast my AC 24/7.  Mostly to blast my AC 24/7.  I did think a happy medium would be 26 panels, but then I got into the MORE POWER!!! mind set... GIVE ME MORE POWER!!!...so then yeah I might get a plugin for the future...shrug.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Kings on May 31, 2019, 10:50:32 AM
I already said that the rent I was asking was at a premium already. Like I mentioned I rented at a price that breaks even PITI with only 25% equity. In the Irvine market, I have more than 50% equity in my home and I wouldn't be able to rent break even. So my tenants "low balling" me is a misnomer. They low balled what I was asking but they are still paying high rent.

Inherently it adds value to the home. The only question is if the market is willing to pay a premium for it. Probably not. If you were comparing 2 homes that were alike though, I would easily go for the home with solar even paying a premium. Especially if I can roll the cost of it into my home financing.

A battery does very little in southern California. Grid reliability is pretty high so it takes out the value proposition for many about having redundancy. It leaves the only true benefit for load shifting. Unfortunately with new SCE TOU rates the difference between peak and off-peak is so small that load shifting has small marginal benefit. So I don't know where you got the thought that you have to have a backup battery for maximum effectiveness. Solar panels by themselves are very cost effective alone.

Calmatters Article:Southern California Edison new rate plan jeopardizes renewable energy


“California’s power companies have rolled out a “time-of-use” system designed to promote energy use during the hours where clean electricity is abundant due to overproduction by solar systems and when energy usage by air conditioners and home electronics are at their peak. This means less energy wasted and more value delivered to solar homeowners.

For SCE customers who have solar energy, this means they currently enjoy peak time on Monday through Friday, from 2 p.m.-8 p.m. During these times, the cost of energy from the grid is the highest, but so is the amount that SCE will pay homeowners if they overproduce. Because these are generally the sunniest hours of the day, solar homeowners tend to come out ahead.

This is all about to change this month when these peak times will be pushed back to 4 p.m. through 9 p.m., a less efficient window of time for solar.

For solar homeowners, this means fewer opportunities to sell their energy surpluses at the best price and a bigger chunk of the day they in which they will pay higher costs for energy used when solar systems are in the dark or less efficient.

This will make home solar systems a less attractive investment at a time when we need to increase the adoption of renewable energy on a mass scale, especially if we seek to meet the state’s new renewables mandate.”

https://calmatters.org/articles/commentary/southern-california-edison-new-rate-plan-jeopardizes-renewable-energy/

What are your thoughts?

install your system on west-facing roof (instead of south-facing) to optimize nem credits
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on May 31, 2019, 02:37:46 PM
To compensate, I went from a 21 solar panel unit to a 30 solar panel unit.  This cost about $5000 more after 30% tax credit.
These panels supposedly will now generate 16,000 kWh per annum.  I only used 9,300 kWh last year.


21 * 330 = 6,930 system (this system generates 10,000 kWh in CA weather)
30 * 330 = 9,900 system (this system generates 16,000 kWh in CA weather)


Why leave all that unused real estate on my rooftop?
This is like recycling or using less gas...a public good.  ya'll should thank me.


I'm still salty that sunrun kid told me I only needed a 21 panel system when I wanted more.
Like most people after getting solar, you will use more electricity.  That true up bill from edison at end of the year should be $0.  However, I will still pay about $120 to edison per annum for maintenance.

Does the math work out though?  You spent an extra $5k to get a larger system which allows you to sell excess kwh back to SCE @ .03/kwh.  $5k with a long term investment horizon (ie. 100% equities) would yield ~7-8% / yr.  My calculation shows you would have been better dumping the $5k in the market.

You cannot sell back to SCE anymore. You just generate credit. Over-generation is washed out after 12 months.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on May 31, 2019, 02:49:28 PM
To compensate, I went from a 21 solar panel unit to a 30 solar panel unit.  This cost about $5000 more after 30% tax credit.
These panels supposedly will now generate 16,000 kWh per annum.  I only used 9,300 kWh last year.


21 * 330 = 6,930 system (this system generates 10,000 kWh in CA weather)
30 * 330 = 9,900 system (this system generates 16,000 kWh in CA weather)


Why leave all that unused real estate on my rooftop?
This is like recycling or using less gas...a public good.  ya'll should thank me.


I'm still salty that sunrun kid told me I only needed a 21 panel system when I wanted more.
Like most people after getting solar, you will use more electricity.  That true up bill from edison at end of the year should be $0.  However, I will still pay about $120 to edison per annum for maintenance.

Does the math work out though?  You spent an extra $5k to get a larger system which allows you to sell excess kwh back to SCE @ .03/kwh.  $5k with a long term investment horizon (ie. 100% equities) would yield ~7-8% / yr.  My calculation shows you would have been better dumping the $5k in the market.

You cannot sell back to SCE anymore. You just generate credit. Over-generation is washed out after 12 months.

That's why the battery backup is good. 
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on June 02, 2019, 10:42:39 PM
To compensate, I went from a 21 solar panel unit to a 30 solar panel unit.  This cost about $5000 more after 30% tax credit.
These panels supposedly will now generate 16,000 kWh per annum.  I only used 9,300 kWh last year.


21 * 330 = 6,930 system (this system generates 10,000 kWh in CA weather)
30 * 330 = 9,900 system (this system generates 16,000 kWh in CA weather)


Why leave all that unused real estate on my rooftop?
This is like recycling or using less gas...a public good.  ya'll should thank me.


I'm still salty that sunrun kid told me I only needed a 21 panel system when I wanted more.
Like most people after getting solar, you will use more electricity.  That true up bill from edison at end of the year should be $0.  However, I will still pay about $120 to edison per annum for maintenance.

Does the math work out though?  You spent an extra $5k to get a larger system which allows you to sell excess kwh back to SCE @ .03/kwh.  $5k with a long term investment horizon (ie. 100% equities) would yield ~7-8% / yr.  My calculation shows you would have been better dumping the $5k in the market.

You cannot sell back to SCE anymore. You just generate credit. Over-generation is washed out after 12 months.

That's why the battery backup is good.

Or sizing your system correctly and not deliberately returning to over generate is the best way.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: daedalus on June 03, 2019, 12:19:58 AM
The battery in a Tesla car is so much bigger than the battery in a power wall.  Surely the geniuses at Tesla can figure out a way to allow an owner to connect the car to an inverter wired into the main panel, to power the house off the car.  The hardware and logic required to ensure things are hooked up properly before turning on the juice are seemingly pretty basic.   The car motors consume hundreds of kilowatts, whereas a house might consume 15kw with the electric dryer, the electric water heater and the central AC all turned on, in addition to all the usual stuff.  The cars already have the capacity to move this much amperage.  Granted, you would need a pretty beefy inverter for 15kw, but if all heat comes from gas, it wouldn't take a very expensive unit to provide the rest of the energy needed.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on June 03, 2019, 09:13:00 AM
The battery in a Tesla car is so much bigger than the battery in a power wall.  Surely the geniuses at Tesla can figure out a way to allow an owner to connect the car to an inverter wired into the main panel, to power the house off the car.  The hardware and logic required to ensure things are hooked up properly before turning on the juice are seemingly pretty basic.   The car motors consume hundreds of kilowatts, whereas a house might consume 15kw with the electric dryer, the electric water heater and the central AC all turned on, in addition to all the usual stuff.  The cars already have the capacity to move this much amperage.  Granted, you would need a pretty beefy inverter for 15kw, but if all heat comes from gas, it wouldn't take a very expensive unit to provide the rest of the energy needed.

Liability.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on June 03, 2019, 09:16:04 AM
To compensate, I went from a 21 solar panel unit to a 30 solar panel unit.  This cost about $5000 more after 30% tax credit.
These panels supposedly will now generate 16,000 kWh per annum.  I only used 9,300 kWh last year.


21 * 330 = 6,930 system (this system generates 10,000 kWh in CA weather)
30 * 330 = 9,900 system (this system generates 16,000 kWh in CA weather)


Why leave all that unused real estate on my rooftop?
This is like recycling or using less gas...a public good.  ya'll should thank me.


I'm still salty that sunrun kid told me I only needed a 21 panel system when I wanted more.
Like most people after getting solar, you will use more electricity.  That true up bill from edison at end of the year should be $0.  However, I will still pay about $120 to edison per annum for maintenance.

Does the math work out though?  You spent an extra $5k to get a larger system which allows you to sell excess kwh back to SCE @ .03/kwh.  $5k with a long term investment horizon (ie. 100% equities) would yield ~7-8% / yr.  My calculation shows you would have been better dumping the $5k in the market.

You cannot sell back to SCE anymore. You just generate credit. Over-generation is washed out after 12 months.

That's why the battery backup is good.

Yup. That’s why I previously mentioned that having the battery is good to have. Especially with the new time they will charge people.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on June 03, 2019, 09:58:02 AM
To compensate, I went from a 21 solar panel unit to a 30 solar panel unit.  This cost about $5000 more after 30% tax credit.
These panels supposedly will now generate 16,000 kWh per annum.  I only used 9,300 kWh last year.


21 * 330 = 6,930 system (this system generates 10,000 kWh in CA weather)
30 * 330 = 9,900 system (this system generates 16,000 kWh in CA weather)


Why leave all that unused real estate on my rooftop?
This is like recycling or using less gas...a public good.  ya'll should thank me.


I'm still salty that sunrun kid told me I only needed a 21 panel system when I wanted more.
Like most people after getting solar, you will use more electricity.  That true up bill from edison at end of the year should be $0.  However, I will still pay about $120 to edison per annum for maintenance.

Does the math work out though?  You spent an extra $5k to get a larger system which allows you to sell excess kwh back to SCE @ .03/kwh.  $5k with a long term investment horizon (ie. 100% equities) would yield ~7-8% / yr.  My calculation shows you would have been better dumping the $5k in the market.

You cannot sell back to SCE anymore. You just generate credit. Over-generation is washed out after 12 months.

That's why the battery backup is good.

I think you already talked about this briefly. Any thoughts on the other brands besides Tesla’s wall battery? (Performance, cost, etc)
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on June 03, 2019, 10:22:01 AM
I will be generating more power than I consume thus making edison burn less coal.

(https://i.imgur.com/Q5NnBt9.png)
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Kings on June 03, 2019, 10:38:30 AM
I will be generating more power than I consume thus making edison burn less coal.

(https://i.imgur.com/Q5NnBt9.png)

sce doesn't generate any of its electricity with coal
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on June 03, 2019, 11:01:02 AM
Wow. A play out of Starfish’s playbook. (Where’s my thank you?) jkjk

#whereisStar

 ;) :o ??? >:D

Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on June 03, 2019, 11:17:00 AM
sce doesn't generate any of its electricity with coal

Natural Gas then.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: nosuchreality on June 03, 2019, 11:44:20 AM
sce doesn't generate any of its electricity with coal

Natural Gas then.

Well technically due to deregulation neither SCE nor PG&E own much generation anymore.  They purchase it all from energy companies that bought their plants  and the intertie link power grids. 

Those critcal intertie paths are why PG&E shutting stuff down for winds or Bonneville protecting Salmon on the Columbia can mean rolling blackouts for Orange County.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on June 03, 2019, 11:47:11 AM
I go the information from this site:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_California (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_California)


(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/be/California_Electricity_Generation_Sources_Pie_Chart.svg/220px-California_Electricity_Generation_Sources_Pie_Chart.svg.png)
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: nosuchreality on June 03, 2019, 02:32:00 PM
I go the information from this site:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_California (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_California)

and further in.
Quote from: same source
California's electricity rates are among the highest in the United States as a result of the changing energy mix within the state, including aggressive construction of new natural gas power plants. California's electricity costs per kWh are 17.4 cents per kWh and 14.8 cents per kWh for residential and commercial customers respectively.  Due to high electricity demand, California imports more electricity than any other state, primarily wind and hydroelectric power from states in the Pacific Northwest (via Path 15 and Path 66) and nuclear, coal-, and natural gas-fired production from the desert Southwest via Path 46. Imported coal-fired electricity is expected to decline as power agreements expire and the city of Los Angeles phases out its use of imported coal by 2025.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: daedalus on June 03, 2019, 10:27:46 PM
Having a powerwall would be like having a 150 gallon rain cistern to supply water to your house, and paying over $1000 for it.  It'll do in a pinch, but only just.  It's roughly $500 per kw-h of storage capacity.  For short term power outages I'll just live with the inconvenience.  For long term outages (i.e., natural disasters), I'm better off with my portable generators.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on June 04, 2019, 10:51:19 AM
Having a powerwall would be like having a 150 gallon rain cistern to supply water to your house, and paying over $1000 for it.  It'll do in a pinch, but only just.  It's roughly $500 per kw-h of storage capacity.  For short term power outages I'll just live with the inconvenience.  For long term outages (i.e., natural disasters), I'm better off with my portable generators.

Of course...but you are also pumping energy into it via the panel during the day time so it somewhat replenishes.  If there is a power outage, you would minimize your electrical use to basically the fridge.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: daedalus on June 05, 2019, 02:24:00 AM
I get that it replenishes.  But so what?   What's the real benefit that's worth paying the $6500 or whatever it costs, assuming you're still on the grid?  My home probably goes through a half dozen power outages a year, and nearly all are while I'm at work.  My food hasn't gone bad during any power outage in the past 20 years that I can recall.  Or maybe I don't understand how SCE treats its solar customers.  Absent a powerwall, doesn't SCE become the de facto powerwall?  If you consume 400kwh in a month, and you generate 400kwh in that same month during daylight hours, what's your expected out of pocket cost, and how much would a powerwall save you each month from that cost?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Kings on June 05, 2019, 05:59:47 AM
I get that it replenishes.  But so what?   What's the real benefit that's worth paying the $6500 or whatever it costs, assuming you're still on the grid?  My home probably goes through a half dozen power outages a year, and nearly all are while I'm at work.  My food hasn't gone bad during any power outage in the past 20 years that I can recall.  Or maybe I don't understand how SCE treats its solar customers.  Absent a powerwall, doesn't SCE become the de facto powerwall?  If you consume 400kwh in a month, and you generate 400kwh in that same month during daylight hours, what's your expected out of pocket cost, and how much would a powerwall save you each month from that cost?

the financial benefit of batteries revolves around load shifting, or taking electricity produced at a lower value and selling/using it at a higher value.  with sce's highest value tou periods in the new tariffs being later in the day (4-9pm), batteries make a lot of sense because solar generation typically diminishes after 4-5pm.  sce tou rates after 4-5pm are $0.30/kWh+ while rates before 4-5pm are 1/2 or 1/3 of that cost.  so in this case, generate cheaper power with solar that charges the battery during the day, then use that power and discharge the battery later on when rates are higher and solar is no longer generating.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on June 05, 2019, 08:22:58 AM
Instead of a battery, you should just add more panels to over-make electricity.  Here is the TOU edison rates:



(https://www.sce.com/sites/default/files/inline-images/TOU%20d-4-9-%20Sum.jpg)
From 4-9pm, electricity production goes way down, so the battery will benefit you by selling it's stored electricity in those hours.  However, just increasing panels should have a similar effect.  Even though I'm only selling at 0.23 during prime solar generation hours, I'm making a lot more power to sell.


Adding more solar panels is cheaper than adding a $6,500 battery.


Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on June 05, 2019, 08:32:01 AM
I get that it replenishes.  But so what?   What's the real benefit that's worth paying the $6500 or whatever it costs, assuming you're still on the grid?  My home probably goes through a half dozen power outages a year, and nearly all are while I'm at work.  My food hasn't gone bad during any power outage in the past 20 years that I can recall.  Or maybe I don't understand how SCE treats its solar customers.  Absent a powerwall, doesn't SCE become the de facto powerwall?  If you consume 400kwh in a month, and you generate 400kwh in that same month during daylight hours, what's your expected out of pocket cost, and how much would a powerwall save you each month from that cost?

We are talking about two different things...emergency backup and costs.  Neither one is the sole factor for getting a powerwall, but they are both incentives.

As for emergency backup, it is good in case the grid goes down in case of an emergency or SCE decides to turn off its grid because of fire danger.   

As for costs...it depends on how much you use and how much you can generate.  If you are like zubs and have enough roof space to power 3 homes, a powerwall is probably not for you.  But if you are like me, where the generation is not that much more than usage...it is good to have some backup so that you can have excess energy when you needed it the most. 
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on June 05, 2019, 08:36:15 AM

I think you already talked about this briefly. Any thoughts on the other brands besides Tesla’s wall battery? (Performance, cost, etc)

The two "best" batteries that are out there are LG and Tesla.  Tesla is cheaper if you go through Tesla but more expensive if you go with a 3rd party.  LG is pretty much the same across the board.  Tesla is like 13 KwH while LG is like 9+...so you need 3 LG batteries = 2 Powerwalls.   Thus, it is generally cheaper to go with Powerwall vs LG.

But it really depends on how much storage you want/need.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on June 05, 2019, 09:00:53 AM
The solar companies can actually cover your entire roof in solar.  The problem is some panels will not be as effective facing North and East.  They'll still produce electricity, but at a reduced rate.  This is where the microinverter is needed instead of the string inverter as the microinverter takes each panel and adds to the whole, while the string inverter (central) sets your whole array to the lowest panel output.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on June 05, 2019, 09:08:37 AM
The solar companies can actually cover your entire roof in solar.  The problem is some panels will not be as effective facing North and East.  They'll still produce electricity, but at a reduced rate.  This is where the microinverter is needed instead of the string inverter as the microinverter takes each panel and adds to the whole, while the string inverter (central) sets your whole array to the lowest panel output.

Wife would never go for it.  Our panels will be away from the street and in our backyard roof so not really visible.  If we started loading panels on our street side roofs, wife would not be happy.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Kings on June 05, 2019, 10:48:56 AM
Instead of a battery, you should just add more panels to over-make electricity.  Here is the TOU edison rates:



(https://www.sce.com/sites/default/files/inline-images/TOU%20d-4-9-%20Sum.jpg)
From 4-9pm, electricity production goes way down, so the battery will benefit you by selling it's stored electricity in those hours.  However, just increasing panels should have a similar effect.  Even though I'm only selling at 0.23 during prime solar generation hours, I'm making a lot more power to sell.


Adding more solar panels is cheaper than adding a $6,500 battery.

problem here is sce does not allow you to participate as nem customer if your system is sized larger than your total annual kwh consumption.  even if you're sized at 100%, you're still only generating at $0.23/kWh during summer weekdays (when most people are not home) and consuming (with very little/no production) at $0.42/kWh when you're home so you end up net negative.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on June 05, 2019, 11:08:07 AM
problem here is sce does not allow you to participate as nem customer if your system is sized larger than your total annual kwh consumption.  even if you're sized at 100%, you're still only generating at $0.23/kWh during summer weekdays (when most people are not home) and consuming (with very little/no production) at $0.42/kWh when you're home so you end up net negative.

I think SCE might have relaxed the oversize rule a bit.  Last few installers that gave me quotes mentioned that SCE doesn't care unless you are grossly oversizing your system.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on June 05, 2019, 11:59:23 AM
SCE is a company looking out for itself.  Solar electricity production is a public good that benefits the community.  SCE will do what's good for themselves before they will do whats good for the community, so I strongly disagree with SCE limiting home owners from putting 100 solar panels on their own roof.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on June 05, 2019, 12:02:07 PM
SCE is a company looking out for itself.  Solar electricity production is a public good that benefits the community.  SCE will do what's good for themselves before they will do whats good for the community, so I strongly disagree with SCE limiting home owners from putting 100 solar panels on their roof if they want.

It is also something that may put SCE out of business.  It would be curious to see if SCE can go from an energy provider to simply a middle man in transferring energy from one place to another.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Kings on June 05, 2019, 12:16:30 PM
problem here is sce does not allow you to participate as nem customer if your system is sized larger than your total annual kwh consumption.  even if you're sized at 100%, you're still only generating at $0.23/kWh during summer weekdays (when most people are not home) and consuming (with very little/no production) at $0.42/kWh when you're home so you end up net negative.

I think SCE might have relaxed the oversize rule a bit.  Last few installers that gave me quotes mentioned that SCE doesn't care unless you are grossly oversizing your system.

in most commercial contracts it's 15% oversize, and then anything over that you're credited at the wholesale price (typically $0.02-3/kWh).  i would guess it's similar for residential.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Kings on June 05, 2019, 12:21:03 PM
SCE is a company looking out for itself.  Solar electricity production is a public good that benefits the community.  SCE will do what's good for themselves before they will do whats good for the community, so I strongly disagree with SCE limiting home owners from putting 100 solar panels on their roof if they want.

It is also something that may put SCE out of business.  It would be curious to see if SCE can go from an energy provider to simply a middle man in transferring energy from one place to another.

that's more or less their current business model.  sce doesn't make any money from the power it sells to its customers.  all investor owned utilities in ca make their money through investments in infrastructure, which profit margin is regulated by the cpuc.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on June 06, 2019, 09:12:40 AM
Here is an LA Times article talking about overproducing solar electricity:

Quote

New research published in the peer-reviewed journal Solar Energy suggests California should embrace the idea of building more solar panels than it can consistently use, rather than treating oversupply as a problem to be solved. It sounds counterintuitive, but intentionally overbuilding solar facilities — and accepting they’ll often need to be dialed down in the absence of sufficient demand — may be the best way to keep electricity prices low on a power grid dominated by renewable energy, the research found.


https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-solar-batteries-renewable-energy-california-20190605-story.html (https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-solar-batteries-renewable-energy-california-20190605-story.html)




More panel > Less panels


You're welcome.

Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: AW on June 06, 2019, 11:03:24 AM
I only have a 3kwh/12 panel and it covers about 80% of electrical usage, with my grandfathered tou plan, I currently owe negative dollars, yay

Monthly $10 is still there, use ac a decent amount when it reaches 78, and one ev (75kw battery?), maybe another ev later, and see if I’m close to break even, haha
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on June 06, 2019, 12:13:18 PM
Funny how we are talking about how many panels or if you need a battery rather than getting solar or not.

I guess solar is prime time now?

@qwerty: Time to jump on, just like the ARMs. :)
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on June 06, 2019, 12:32:27 PM
It looks like solar panels are getting better by 10%/year.  2 years ago the 285 watt solar panel was standard, now 330 is standard. You can even get 375 watt LG panels today.  In the next couple of years, I'm sure 400 watt panels will be the norm.

FYI: sunrun is still trying to put 285 watt panels on your rooftop in 2019!!..don't use them.

I like to think of solar as a perpetual engine.  Once installed it lays golden electrical eggs for the next 25 years.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on June 06, 2019, 12:55:07 PM
Thanks for the post. You mentioned you have the grandfathered tou plan. Please explain to the curious/noobs what does that mean.

I only have a 3kwh/12 panel and it covers about 80% of electrical usage, with my grandfathered tou plan, I currently owe negative dollars, yay

Monthly $10 is still there, use ac a decent amount when it reaches 78, and one ev (75kw battery?), maybe another ev later, and see if I’m close to break even, haha
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: AW on June 06, 2019, 01:01:54 PM
There are several, I apparently don’t use a lot, so I’m on plan a.  Rates are lower

https://www.sce.com/residential/rates/sce-grandfathered-rate-plans

Thanks for the post. You mentioned you have the grandfathered tou plan. Please explain to the curious/noobs what does that mean.

I only have a 3kwh/12 panel and it covers about 80% of electrical usage, with my grandfathered tou plan, I currently owe negative dollars, yay

Monthly $10 is still there, use ac a decent amount when it reaches 78, and one ev (75kw battery?), maybe another ev later, and see if I’m close to break even, haha
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on June 06, 2019, 01:48:07 PM
There are several, I apparently don’t use a lot, so I’m on plan a.  Rates are lower

https://www.sce.com/residential/rates/sce-grandfathered-rate-plans

Thanks for the post. You mentioned you have the grandfathered tou plan. Please explain to the curious/noobs what does that mean.

I only have a 3kwh/12 panel and it covers about 80% of electrical usage, with my grandfathered tou plan, I currently owe negative dollars, yay

Monthly $10 is still there, use ac a decent amount when it reaches 78, and one ev (75kw battery?), maybe another ev later, and see if I’m close to break even, haha

The key takeaway is that his panels produce LESS than his actual kWh usage, but due to the grandfathered old TOU plan, he is able to produce enough credit at peak times to cover the over usage at low cost times.  Unfortunately, this type of arbitrage will be much harder to accomplish with the new/current TOU plan.  Damn you SCE...

This point is not discussed too often when sizing a system.  The goal should be a $0 dollar (or really $10) electricity bill a month.  This does not mean designing a system to produce X kwh to offset X kwh usage over a year.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on June 06, 2019, 02:01:31 PM
There are several, I apparently don’t use a lot, so I’m on plan a.  Rates are lower

https://www.sce.com/residential/rates/sce-grandfathered-rate-plans

Thanks for the post. You mentioned you have the grandfathered tou plan. Please explain to the curious/noobs what does that mean.

I only have a 3kwh/12 panel and it covers about 80% of electrical usage, with my grandfathered tou plan, I currently owe negative dollars, yay

Monthly $10 is still there, use ac a decent amount when it reaches 78, and one ev (75kw battery?), maybe another ev later, and see if I’m close to break even, haha

The key takeaway is that his panels produce LESS than his actual kWh usage, but due to the grandfathered old TOU plan, he is able to produce enough credit at peak times to cover the over usage at low cost times.  Unfortunately, this type of arbitrage will be much harder to accomplish with the new/current TOU plan.  Damn you SCE...

This point is not discussed too often when sizing a system.  The goal should be a $0 dollar (or really $10) electricity bill a month.  This does not mean designing a system to produce X kwh to offset X kwh usage over a year.

Sure, but isn't that hard to do because we can't know what SCE will do with pricing? They could change it again and screw up the math. The only known factors for us is usage so isn't that really the best we can design for?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on June 06, 2019, 02:20:54 PM
There are several, I apparently don’t use a lot, so I’m on plan a.  Rates are lower

https://www.sce.com/residential/rates/sce-grandfathered-rate-plans

Thanks for the post. You mentioned you have the grandfathered tou plan. Please explain to the curious/noobs what does that mean.

I only have a 3kwh/12 panel and it covers about 80% of electrical usage, with my grandfathered tou plan, I currently owe negative dollars, yay

Monthly $10 is still there, use ac a decent amount when it reaches 78, and one ev (75kw battery?), maybe another ev later, and see if I’m close to break even, haha

The key takeaway is that his panels produce LESS than his actual kWh usage, but due to the grandfathered old TOU plan, he is able to produce enough credit at peak times to cover the over usage at low cost times.  Unfortunately, this type of arbitrage will be much harder to accomplish with the new/current TOU plan.  Damn you SCE...

This point is not discussed too often when sizing a system.  The goal should be a $0 dollar (or really $10) electricity bill a month.  This does not mean designing a system to produce X kwh to offset X kwh usage over a year.

Sure, but isn't that hard to do because we can't know what SCE will do with pricing? They could change it again and screw up the math. The only known factors for us is usage so isn't that really the best we can design for?

There are a few things you can take into account when designing a system.  If you can shift a large amount usage to low peak times (ie. EV or pool pump) or if  no one is home during the day time to use AC, you can design a smaller system.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on June 07, 2019, 08:37:36 AM
There are several, I apparently don’t use a lot, so I’m on plan a.  Rates are lower

https://www.sce.com/residential/rates/sce-grandfathered-rate-plans

Thanks for the post. You mentioned you have the grandfathered tou plan. Please explain to the curious/noobs what does that mean.

I only have a 3kwh/12 panel and it covers about 80% of electrical usage, with my grandfathered tou plan, I currently owe negative dollars, yay

Monthly $10 is still there, use ac a decent amount when it reaches 78, and one ev (75kw battery?), maybe another ev later, and see if I’m close to break even, haha

The key takeaway is that his panels produce LESS than his actual kWh usage, but due to the grandfathered old TOU plan, he is able to produce enough credit at peak times to cover the over usage at low cost times.  Unfortunately, this type of arbitrage will be much harder to accomplish with the new/current TOU plan.  Damn you SCE...

This point is not discussed too often when sizing a system.  The goal should be a $0 dollar (or really $10) electricity bill a month.  This does not mean designing a system to produce X kwh to offset X kwh usage over a year.

You also want to figure in some future consumption depending on your family and future plans (like buying EV cars). 
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on June 07, 2019, 08:45:50 AM
There are several, I apparently don’t use a lot, so I’m on plan a.  Rates are lower

https://www.sce.com/residential/rates/sce-grandfathered-rate-plans

Thanks for the post. You mentioned you have the grandfathered tou plan. Please explain to the curious/noobs what does that mean.

I only have a 3kwh/12 panel and it covers about 80% of electrical usage, with my grandfathered tou plan, I currently owe negative dollars, yay

Monthly $10 is still there, use ac a decent amount when it reaches 78, and one ev (75kw battery?), maybe another ev later, and see if I’m close to break even, haha

The key takeaway is that his panels produce LESS than his actual kWh usage, but due to the grandfathered old TOU plan, he is able to produce enough credit at peak times to cover the over usage at low cost times.  Unfortunately, this type of arbitrage will be much harder to accomplish with the new/current TOU plan.  Damn you SCE...

This point is not discussed too often when sizing a system.  The goal should be a $0 dollar (or really $10) electricity bill a month.  This does not mean designing a system to produce X kwh to offset X kwh usage over a year.

So the idea of getting a battery with solar is not far fetched and may make sense due to the change in TOU plan.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on June 07, 2019, 09:02:22 AM
There are several, I apparently don’t use a lot, so I’m on plan a.  Rates are lower

https://www.sce.com/residential/rates/sce-grandfathered-rate-plans

Thanks for the post. You mentioned you have the grandfathered tou plan. Please explain to the curious/noobs what does that mean.

I only have a 3kwh/12 panel and it covers about 80% of electrical usage, with my grandfathered tou plan, I currently owe negative dollars, yay

Monthly $10 is still there, use ac a decent amount when it reaches 78, and one ev (75kw battery?), maybe another ev later, and see if I’m close to break even, haha

The key takeaway is that his panels produce LESS than his actual kWh usage, but due to the grandfathered old TOU plan, he is able to produce enough credit at peak times to cover the over usage at low cost times.  Unfortunately, this type of arbitrage will be much harder to accomplish with the new/current TOU plan.  Damn you SCE...

This point is not discussed too often when sizing a system.  The goal should be a $0 dollar (or really $10) electricity bill a month.  This does not mean designing a system to produce X kwh to offset X kwh usage over a year.

So the idea of getting a battery with solar is not far fetched and may make sense due to the change in TOU plan.

And apparently you can only get the 30% credit for the battery when you install the system...not if you just get the battery by itself.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on June 07, 2019, 10:09:31 AM
Your argument for a battery system is good. 
It gives you more options when dealing with SCE.

But I still favor more panels over battery.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: AW on June 07, 2019, 10:14:25 AM
What would be neat is if we can use the car as a power wall,..

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-hacker-off-grid-solar-home-batteries/amp/
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: qwerty on June 07, 2019, 10:17:01 AM
Funny how we are talking about how many panels or if you need a battery rather than getting solar or not.

I guess solar is prime time now?

@qwerty: Time to jump on, just like the ARMs. :)
.

 No way man. I don’t care if the system was free and reduced my electric bill to zero. I’m happy keeping SCE in business
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on June 11, 2019, 08:20:14 AM
Funny how we are talking about how many panels or if you need a battery rather than getting solar or not.

I guess solar is prime time now?

@qwerty: Time to jump on, just like the ARMs. :)
.

 No way man. I don’t care if the system was free and reduced my electric bill to zero. I’m happy keeping SCE in business

Resistance is futile. Even eyephone is curious.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on June 11, 2019, 08:41:30 AM
My solar plans are done. They are pulling Irvine permits and I'm working through the HOA application process. I should be up and running in 30-45 days hopefully.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on June 11, 2019, 02:40:08 PM
So what is the payback period for the solar panels?  If most owners seller their homes within 5-7 years, I don't see how the owner will get a full payback on their upfront investment in solar panels.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on June 11, 2019, 02:45:21 PM
Between 5-8 years for most people. I'm closer to 5 years for my usage.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on June 11, 2019, 02:55:59 PM
So what is the payback period for the solar panels?  If most owners seller their homes within 5-7 years, I don't see how the owner will get a full payback on their upfront investment in solar panels.

This is what I have been saying all along.
Maybe even longer period if you add the battery pack.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on June 11, 2019, 03:04:18 PM
So what is the payback period for the solar panels?  If most owners seller their homes within 5-7 years, I don't see how the owner will get a full payback on their upfront investment in solar panels.

We've had this discussion.

It's not just about ROI, it's also about being able to use as much electricity (AC in our case) as you want, being able to charge EVs and basically not be SCE dependent.

People spend just as much doing other things on their house without a large return either.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on June 11, 2019, 03:15:40 PM
So what is the payback period for the solar panels?  If most owners seller their homes within 5-7 years, I don't see how the owner will get a full payback on their upfront investment in solar panels.

What can I say? He’s a numbers guy.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on June 11, 2019, 03:15:59 PM
So what is the payback period for the solar panels?  If most owners seller their homes within 5-7 years, I don't see how the owner will get a full payback on their upfront investment in solar panels.

People upgrade things in their house regardless of the 5-7 year time frame.

Also, most of the people who get solar panel is probably at their last house as it requires substantial roof space....so I would think that they would be there a lot longer than 5 to 7.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on June 20, 2019, 07:51:27 AM
It's funny, if I were shopping right now, a home with solar would be a plus for me, just like a new kitchen or bathroom.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on June 20, 2019, 09:28:16 AM
It's funny, if I were shopping right now, a home with solar would be a plus for me, just like a new kitchen or bathroom.

I agree but because I have such high usage due to long commutes and 2 electric cars, a home with a small solar system that doesn't meet my needs would be a negative though.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on June 20, 2019, 09:45:10 AM
It's funny, if I were shopping right now, a home with solar would be a plus for me, just like a new kitchen or bathroom.

I agree but because I have such high usage due to long commutes and 2 electric cars, a home with a small solar system that doesn't meet my needs would be a negative though.

I have mentioned previously. If you have high energy usage. It’s like a no brainer to get solar.

I get complaints from my friend of the high energy bills due to working from home, ac on 247, energy related to the pool, and they have an EV.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on June 20, 2019, 09:57:40 AM
It's funny, if I were shopping right now, a home with solar would be a plus for me, just like a new kitchen or bathroom.

I agree but because I have such high usage due to long commutes and 2 electric cars, a home with a small solar system that doesn't meet my needs would be a negative though.

Why would a home with a small solar system be a negative for you?  Even if it shaves of any % of your bill, that's still a savings. 
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on June 20, 2019, 10:23:38 AM
Old tech solar produces less electricty per panel.  3 years ago the standard panel was 275 watts.  The standard panel is 330 now, and you can even get 375 to 400?

So if you don't have that much area on your roof, the higher watt panels help a lot.  I understand the concern.  It's like replacing your old PC with a new PC.  The old one works fine, but the new one is way better.

Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on June 20, 2019, 01:42:04 PM
It's funny, if I were shopping right now, a home with solar would be a plus for me, just like a new kitchen or bathroom.

I agree but because I have such high usage due to long commutes and 2 electric cars, a home with a small solar system that doesn't meet my needs would be a negative though.

Why would a home with a small solar system be a negative for you?  Even if it shaves of any % of your bill, that's still a savings.

Typically means I'm paying more for less. With solar panels you get better pricing with larger systems. If I need say 100 kwH and that'll cost me $100 but I can only get 20kWh but I'm paying $30 for that then it's a detractor. I would rather have no solar panels and then install the full system to what I need for a better price. And that is because there are also certain fixed costs associated with a system that can get better spread out through larger systems.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: akkord on July 10, 2019, 01:17:38 PM
I went down the solar rabbit hole, with TOU in Oct 2020, and the 30% tax credit going away I'm going to do solar.  The quote I got couldn't be beat by other companies, others said that's way too low, but its 3 of us doing solar on 3k sf homes.  PM me directly if anyone wants the info, he'll take my referrals but only for a short period of time. 
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zovall on July 10, 2019, 04:05:51 PM
I went down the solar rabbit hole, with TOU in Oct 2020, and the 30% tax credit going away I'm going to do solar.  The quote I got couldn't be beat by other companies, others said that's way too low, but its 3 of us doing solar on 3k sf homes.  PM me directly if anyone wants the info, he'll take my referrals but only for a short period of time. 

Can you share the pricing and the equipment?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on July 10, 2019, 04:32:19 PM
Just like me and the other big time financial gurus on TI. (they are not getting it)

I rest my case
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on July 11, 2019, 07:17:18 AM
For those getting (or already have) panels, where did you put them?

A while ago, when I first looked into this, I think south facing was best. But now, I've read articles that say west is better because that's when energy is most expensive from the utility companies. I haven't looked at SCE's TOU plans for a while but I notice all of them charge the highest prices from 4pm-9pm so to me, that makes sense that you would want your panels generating power during this time.

If you have batteries, this may not matter as much, but it does seem like west facing is probably the best choice.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: akkord on July 11, 2019, 07:22:56 AM
TLDR: Solar works for me, but it may not in your situation.  If you plan to move in 1-5 years don't do it, I wouldn't either.

My situation is different, I can't personally trade at my job, if I do there are a ton of restrictions and pre-clearing that will eat up returns, like a min 60 day hold period, so I can't trade the news or earnings, etc.  So why not put it in solar and get a return after 5/6 years while blasting my AC and living comfortably at home, I'm conservative with AC usage now and I don't want to be. I don't plan on moving, there's normally always someone at the house, and I work a couple days from home every week and my wife occasionally does too. 

I get it, there's time value in money and it may get cheaper in the future, but how much cheaper and how long would you wait?  If solar's cheaper in 2 years, but break even is still another 3/4 years, you're losing say ~7-10% on your money for 2 years, you'd break even around the same time.  *Like I said I probably won't get these returns with my current job

Think of a remodel, you reap the benefits now by having a nicer kitchen, or bathroom, or flooring, whatever you decide to do.  But is your remodel 10-15 years down the road going to hold up or be dated.  We all look at homes built in the 2000s and we're like that kitchen and flooring needs to be redone, or that wall needs to go down to open it up.  Once my solar goes in, at least I'm reaping the benefits now and 10-15 years down the road the electricity will still be free or close to it with rising costs. 

Remember TOU in Oct 2020 will raise your bill, it will be mandatory for every one using SCE, so increasing costs will help you break even sooner.  Buying an EV or 2, which is where the market is going will help you break even sooner, kids getting older and using more electricity will help you break even sooner.  My blasting the AC at 70-72 all summer long will help me break even sooner.  You plan to move in a few years, don't even think about solar. 
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on July 11, 2019, 09:34:06 AM
My solar installation is going to start tomorrow. I can't wait for it to be fully running and no more $300 electricity bills just for driving.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on July 11, 2019, 09:42:29 AM
As I previously stated if you have a high electric bill consider solar. (No brainer) But dont get it just to say you have it.

I see it as technology will get cheaper just like flat screen tv. Do you remember when the flat screen tv just came out it was over priced? Now it’s like so cheap.

Also, they keep on changing the energy rules. So the set up you have now, might not be optimal. (Idk that is why I mentioned the battery, but that costs $)
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: akkord on July 11, 2019, 10:15:12 AM
I understand, some people love new technology and get a new phone or TV every year, not something I would do, but if it makes them happy, why not. 

I bought my Pioneer Elite 50 for 2700 and 60 for 4500 7/8 years ago.  I just picked up a Samsung Q90 82 inch in the 3s that arrives today, hopefully undamaged.  I still use my Pioneer in the bedroom, the 1080 content, black levels, motion for sports is still awesome in my eyes. 

You can try and figure out the energy rules going forward, but 5 years ago did anyone anticipate the 10k SALT cap?  I didn't see it coming 5 years ago, and if you saw it coming, give me the winning numbers for the lotto, or what stocks I can buy and hold for 60+ days and make a good return.   :)

As I previously stated if you have a high electric bill consider solar. (No brainer) But dont get it just to say you have it.

I see it as technology will get cheaper just like flat screen tv. Do you remember when the flat screen tv just came out it was over priced? Now it’s like so cheap.

Also, they keep on changing the energy rules.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on July 11, 2019, 10:20:59 AM
The TOU (Time of use) contract is suppose to be grandfathered in.
The people who got solar before the TOU rules (early solar adopters) still have more than 15 years to reap the solar credits they signed with Edison back then. 
(They get to sell their electricity at a higher rate then us new adopters)


Also, I didn't know all Edison customers are going to TOU rates in OCT 2020...so y'all got another 15 months to plant solar on yer rooves.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: akkord on July 11, 2019, 10:38:40 AM
Based on what I read even grandfathered may have to move to their new TOU too, but I didn't read too much into it since I wasn't an early adopter

The TOU (Time of use) contract is suppose to be grandfathered in.
The people who got solar before the TOU rules (early solar adopters) still have more than 15 years to reap the solar credits they signed with Edison back then. 
(They get to sell their electricity at a higher rate then us new adopters)


Also, I didn't know all Edison customers are going to TOU rates in OCT 2020...so another 15 months.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Kings on July 11, 2019, 10:46:55 AM
For those getting (or already have) panels, where did you put them?

A while ago, when I first looked into this, I think south facing was best. But now, I've read articles that say west is better because that's when energy is most expensive from the utility companies. I haven't looked at SCE's TOU plans for a while but I notice all of them charge the highest prices from 4pm-9pm so to me, that makes sense that you would want your panels generating power during this time.

If you have batteries, this may not matter as much, but it does seem like west facing is probably the best choice.

south-facing is still superior, even with the tou changes.  solar production drops off substantially after 4 pm for 60-70% of the year, so the benefits of having a west-facing system don't quite stack up.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on July 11, 2019, 11:23:01 AM
For those getting (or already have) panels, where did you put them?

A while ago, when I first looked into this, I think south facing was best. But now, I've read articles that say west is better because that's when energy is most expensive from the utility companies. I haven't looked at SCE's TOU plans for a while but I notice all of them charge the highest prices from 4pm-9pm so to me, that makes sense that you would want your panels generating power during this time.

If you have batteries, this may not matter as much, but it does seem like west facing is probably the best choice.

south-facing is still superior, even with the tou changes.  solar production drops off substantially after 4 pm for 60-70% of the year, so the benefits of having a west-facing system don't quite stack up.

Bummer. I don't think I have enough roof facing south.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Kings on July 11, 2019, 11:41:02 AM
For those getting (or already have) panels, where did you put them?

A while ago, when I first looked into this, I think south facing was best. But now, I've read articles that say west is better because that's when energy is most expensive from the utility companies. I haven't looked at SCE's TOU plans for a while but I notice all of them charge the highest prices from 4pm-9pm so to me, that makes sense that you would want your panels generating power during this time.

If you have batteries, this may not matter as much, but it does seem like west facing is probably the best choice.

south-facing is still superior, even with the tou changes.  solar production drops off substantially after 4 pm for 60-70% of the year, so the benefits of having a west-facing system don't quite stack up.

Bummer. I don't think I have enough roof facing south.

it's not a huge difference, 5-10% less.  you could also put part of your system on the south-facing and part on the west-facing for less impact.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on July 11, 2019, 11:45:03 AM
I’m waiting for someone to suggest to put solar panels on a pergola. (Being sarcastic)
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zovall on July 11, 2019, 04:00:20 PM
For those getting (or already have) panels, where did you put them?

I put as many as I could on the South and West facing portions and even have a few on the East. We got a real PITA roof which made it hard to place many panels neatly. In my particular case (a few years ago), I think I should have put them on the North facing portions too. We use the AC a lot and had 1 EV at the time. We've added another EV and now use even more electricity.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on July 12, 2019, 11:46:12 AM
I’m waiting for someone to suggest to put solar panels on a pergola. (Being sarcastic)

You kid but they really do install those on trellis and pergolas.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on July 12, 2019, 11:54:14 AM
I’m waiting for someone to suggest to put solar panels on a pergola. (Being sarcastic)

You kid but they really do install those on trellis and pergolas.

Yup-There are examples on YouTube. Some are DiYers that install the solar panels themselves.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on July 12, 2019, 12:04:01 PM
There's only a small amount of roof on the south part and it's the front so it probably won't look good and the HOA may not approve it.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on July 12, 2019, 12:18:56 PM
Someone told me HOA can't say no to solar.  Probably someone selling solar!
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on July 12, 2019, 01:21:26 PM
Someone told me HOA can't say no to solar.  Probably someone selling solar!


California HOA Rules for Solar: New Law Makes Going Solar Easier

https://blog.pickmysolar.com/new-hoa-laws-make-solar-easier-for-condo-owners


Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on July 12, 2019, 02:56:58 PM
But my spouse can say 'no' to putting them on the front of the house. :)
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on July 18, 2019, 10:07:29 AM
Just finished creating a pretty detailed spreadsheet to capture solar generation by hour and season as well as my usage by the same binned times. Married it up with SCE TOU 4-9pm, 5-8pm, and Prime plans do analysis on optimal plan for solar generation credits versus my high nighttime usage to see which plan is the best plan for me. Prime turns out to be best since I'm using anywhere from 20-50 kWh overnight to charge 2 electric cars. Generally, 4-9pm or 5-8pm would be good but for 8 months out of the year, "winter months", the cheapest time for electricity shifts to 8am-3pm and I cannot charge my cars during those hours reliably. This model is detrimental to electric car owners.

Net cost after tax credit is about $19,000. Annual solar generation is $2,700 on TOU-Prime which does not fully offset my $2,850 annual consumption. Unfortunately my roof is maxed out with 32 panels otherwise I would get more for 100% offset. Not too shabby to have a guaranteed 14% "return" annually. 7 year break even for my system.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Kings on July 18, 2019, 10:17:47 AM
Just finished creating a pretty detailed spreadsheet to capture solar generation by hour and season as well as my usage by the same binned times. Married it up with SCE TOU 4-9pm, 5-8pm, and Prime plans do analysis on optimal plan for solar generation credits versus my high nighttime usage to see which plan is the best plan for me. Prime turns out to be best since I'm using anywhere from 20-50 kWh overnight to charge 2 electric cars. Generally, 4-9pm or 5-8pm would be good but for 8 months out of the year, "winter months", the cheapest time for electricity shifts to 8am-3pm and I cannot charge my cars during those hours reliably. This model is detrimental to electric car owners.

Net cost after tax credit is about $19,000. Annual solar generation is $2,700 on TOU-Prime which does not fully offset my $2,850 annual consumption. Unfortunately my roof is maxed out with 32 panels otherwise I would get more for 100% offset. Not too shabby to have a guaranteed 14% "return" annually. 7 year break even for my system.

will likely end up being quicker payback too due to electricity rates increasing an average of 2-3% per year
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on July 18, 2019, 04:23:17 PM
Doing some research on the Fed credit.

I thought it goes away but after 2019, for 2020 it goes down to 26%?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Kings on July 18, 2019, 04:48:36 PM
Doing some research on the Fed credit.

I thought it goes away but after 2019, for 2020 it goes down to 26%?

correct, it's a phase out.  22% in 2021 and then 0% for residential in 2022. 
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on July 18, 2019, 04:52:25 PM
That's right, but congress can still pass a law to extend the 30%?
It's probably not going to happen.

It didn't happen with the electric car subsidy.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Kings on July 18, 2019, 05:13:15 PM
That's right, but congress can still pass a law to extend the 30%?
It's probably not going to happen.

It didn't happen with the electric car subsidy.

they can, but i see it as unlikely.  it was last extended back in 2015 i believe.  the market is pretty saturated now, which is why you're seeing peak tou periods shift to later in the day when solar does not generate.  ca in particular is paying neighboring states like az to take overproduced power on days when demand ends up being too low for what's being dumped onto the grid.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on July 22, 2019, 08:58:13 AM
Ahh the joys of running AC and charging 2 cars and still running an energy surplus...
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on July 22, 2019, 09:16:56 AM
^ I'm jealous. :(
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on July 22, 2019, 09:31:55 AM
I'm afraid my 4-9 TOU will look really high.  Do you try to not run electricity during that time?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on July 22, 2019, 10:51:41 AM
I'm afraid my 4-9 TOU will look really high.  Do you try to not run electricity during that time?

I'm on TOU PRIME but the hours are the same. If you are a heavy user of electricity from 9pm-8am then you definitely want to be on Prime because of winter hours. I only charge my cars at 9pm or later but otherwise my regular electricity usage is non-discretionary.

Plus there will be days that you will build up a sizable surplus from being away from home. Like Sunday I wasn't home for most of the day and this was my usage
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: marmott on July 22, 2019, 06:09:04 PM
4-9 TOU is just during week days right? At least it is with PG&E.

I was also worried about peak hours being between 4PM and 9PM but we compensate our usage during that time with a high production during the rest of the day.

Our true up looks good so far. Probably too good, have to look into an EV soon.

Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on July 23, 2019, 08:18:11 AM
No 4-9pm is peak for weekday and weekend. It's just the cost of peak on the weekend is lower than weekday.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on July 23, 2019, 11:14:16 AM
(https://www.sce.com/sites/default/files/inline-images/TOU%20d-4-9-%20Sum.jpg)


(https://www.sce.com/sites/default/files/inline-images/Tou%20D-4-9-%20sUM%20we.jpg)
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on August 17, 2019, 02:22:11 PM
I'm going to be giving Tesla a call to get a quote since I can't see it being that much more than just re-felting the roof.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on August 19, 2019, 09:53:31 AM
There's a lot of companies that do the solar tile.  Not just Tesla.
I found that Tesla is about 15% more expensive then your local solar company....while sunrun is 30% more. 


Those people who stand around costco and homedepot all day gots to get paid!
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: marmott on August 20, 2019, 09:41:48 PM
Oops:Tesla is getting sued by Walmart who wants them to remove 240 solar systems after fires.

https://electrek.co/2019/08/20/tesla-walmart-remove-solar-systems-fires/

Here is to hoping that my roof doesn't catch fire...
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on August 22, 2019, 11:13:18 AM
So my solar installation is finally complete.  A summary:

I read this thread on May 5.
I had sunrun come estimate my house.
I created an energysage account afterwards.
I told sunrun to fuck off.
I signed with a solar company on 05.30.2019
It was installed on 08.07.2019
Edison gave me PTO (permission to operate) on 08.21.2019.

So what now?

energysage.com had some promotions that I just applied.
1. $100 amazon gift card
2. $250 Panasonic rebate for using their panels

We'll see if I actually get any of this money.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on August 22, 2019, 11:27:47 AM
Oops:Tesla is getting sued by Walmart who wants them to remove 240 solar systems after fires.

https://electrek.co/2019/08/20/tesla-walmart-remove-solar-systems-fires/

Here is to hoping that my roof doesn't catch fire...

It’s really bad, really bad. Read the reports done by walmart and tesla regarding the issue.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on August 22, 2019, 11:44:24 AM
So I spent $18,000 on this array after tax incentives
It should be paid off in 2026.

What if I had put $18,000 into AMZN instead of this solar array. How much will it be by 2026?
Today Amazon is $1,813/share (10 shares)

We'll have to revisit this post in 7 years.



I use TI as my personal time capsule.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on August 22, 2019, 12:03:17 PM
Oops:Tesla is getting sued by Walmart who wants them to remove 240 solar systems after fires.

https://electrek.co/2019/08/20/tesla-walmart-remove-solar-systems-fires/

Here is to hoping that my roof doesn't catch fire...

It’s really bad, really bad. Read the reports done by walmart and tesla regarding the issue.

I will post more about this.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on August 22, 2019, 04:55:29 PM
Here is the reddit post regarding solar city tesla installations.
Apparantly if you have solar city panels on your roof, you may have a bad connector and it may catch on fire.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SolarCity/comments/9ikm8g/solarcity_shutdown_my_system_apparently_a/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/SolarCity/comments/9ikm8g/solarcity_shutdown_my_system_apparently_a/)


time to buy tesla puts.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on August 23, 2019, 07:45:53 AM
@irvinecommuter: Check your connectors!!!!
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: marmott on August 23, 2019, 10:38:57 AM
I think Tesla/SC know which install are using these connectors, I've heard of a few people in my neighborhood getting their solar array shut down and waiting for replacement.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on August 23, 2019, 10:54:38 AM
Oops:Tesla is getting sued by Walmart who wants them to remove 240 solar systems after fires.

https://electrek.co/2019/08/20/tesla-walmart-remove-solar-systems-fires/

Here is to hoping that my roof doesn't catch fire...

It’s really bad, really bad. Read the reports done by walmart and tesla regarding the issue.

I will post more about this.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/e4021ca9-c49f-3041-b743-291934ec3433

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/08/after-seven-roof-fires-walmart-sues-tesla-over-solar-panel-flaws/

Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cornflakes on August 24, 2019, 02:10:53 AM
So my solar installation is finally complete.  A summary:

I read this thread on May 5.
I had sunrun come estimate my house.
I created an energysage account afterwards.
I told sunrun to fuck off.
I signed with a solar company on 05.30.2019
It was installed on 08.07.2019
Edison gave me PTO (permission to operate) on 08.21.2019.

So what now?

energysage.com had some promotions that I just applied.
1. $100 amazon gift card
2. $250 Panasonic rebate for using their panels

We'll see if I actually get any of this money.

Congrats. What company did you go with and what was their quote per kWatt before tax incentive?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on August 24, 2019, 09:38:34 AM
Tesla solar panels reportedly caught fire at an Amazon warehouse in 2018

Tesla solar energy systems reportedly ignited at an Amazon warehouse in Redlands, California last June, and the Seattle e-commerce titan confirmed that it has no further plans to buy solar energy systems from Tesla.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/23/tesla-solar-panels-caught-fire-at-amazon-warehouse-in-2018-report.html


Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on August 24, 2019, 02:42:28 PM
Ask akkord.  He got a better deal then me by grouping with other people.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on August 24, 2019, 08:39:57 PM
How did you "apply" for your Panasonic Energysage rebate? I saw the rebate when quoting and installed Panasonic. I just don't see a place to apply for it.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on August 25, 2019, 12:02:25 PM
While I was asking for the amazon $100 gift card, I asked energy sage about the Panasonic rebate and they sent me this link.

https://info.energysage.com/panasonic-rebate (https://info.energysage.com/panasonic-rebate)


I hate rebates  I was taught they were used by companies to sell shit and hope that the person buying would forget about them....much like you have.  It is hidden for a reason.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on September 15, 2019, 08:08:25 PM
Tesla updated their solar panel size increments and pricing (from May this year).  Now the sizes are in increments of 3.8kw instead of 4kw.  Cost now is $2.84/kwh instead of $3/kwh.

Solar panel rentals are also available now.  See other thread I started. 
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on September 22, 2019, 03:35:38 PM
I brought in Sunpower, Sunlux, and Telsa to get quotes for solar the past few weeks.  And since I need to get my roof repaired to get the solar installed, I can get a 30% credit for the roof repairs.  I'm going to be going with Sunlux since their pricing was the best and they are licensed roofers.  Pricing I got was $14k for a hair over 6,000KW or around $2.30/KW for 12 Panasonic solar panels. 

Happy to provide to refer anyone who is interested my Sunlux rep, just PM or email me.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinehomeseeker on September 22, 2019, 05:03:59 PM
 Sunlux runs s lot of ads on AM 640...quite a few hosts on am 640 recommend Sunlux.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on September 22, 2019, 06:17:09 PM
Paid advertisement on the radio.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: daedalus on September 22, 2019, 07:25:45 PM
$2.3 per watt is a good deal.  It wasn't that long ago that panels alone were $5/watt.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on September 22, 2019, 08:08:12 PM
My 9900kwh system was $26,235 ($2.65/watt)
My 9900kwh system will be $18,365 after the tax incentive. 30% is about a $7,870 tax credit.  ($1.85/watt)

I wonder if the $2.30 USC is getting is before or after tax incentive.
If it's before, then akkord, cares, and I got screwed pretty badly, so I think it's prob. after because I'd like to think we shopped around pretty well.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on September 22, 2019, 08:58:18 PM
Pricing I got was $14k for a hair over 6,000KW or around $2.30/KW for 12 Panasonic solar panels. 

12 Panasonic panels does not equal a 6kW system.  12 Panasonic panels will most likely generate 6000kWh per year of electricity.  You should double-check your quote...
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on September 22, 2019, 09:08:16 PM
My 9900kwh system was $26,235 ($2.65/watt)
My 9900kwh system will be $18,365 after the tax incentive. 30% is about a $7,870 tax credit.  ($1.85/watt)

I wonder if the $2.30 USC is getting is before or after tax incentive.
If it's before, then akkord, cares, and I got screwed pretty badly, so I think it's prob. after because I'd like to think we shopped around pretty well.

My pre-tax cost is $14,235 for 12 Panasonic panels that will generate 6,143kWh per year of electricity so my after tax cost is $1.62/KW.  In the past year I used about 5,500kWh but I'll be putting in a spa next year so figured I'll get a little more than what I need now.

I wouldn't say that paying $2.65/KW is getting royally screwed.  One of my clients went with Sunlux having researched a half dozen companies and he recommended that get a quote from them. 
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on September 22, 2019, 10:33:41 PM
@qwerty:

USCT is going solar.

It’s prime time. :)
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on September 22, 2019, 11:17:15 PM
My 9,900 array generates 15,000 kwh a year.

You should find out the size of your array, but I can kind of guess.
If you are generating 6,000 kwh, your array is probably around 3,960 kwh.
12 panasonic 330 watt panels = 3,960 array

Find out your array size, not what you will generate.  Then we can compare.

example: I have 30 panels at 330 = 9,900. Using enphase microinverters

If you want to compare electricity generation, then mine is 26,235/15,000 = $1.75 to your $2.30.


I'm sure the solar companies charge more for only 12 vs. 30 panels.  Funny thing is my price ain't the cheapest. 
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on September 22, 2019, 11:51:14 PM
You should just use energysage.com
They'll get 10 solar companies quoting you and you don't even have to give them your phone number.

Then you can also send them a message where you are telling them you need a new roof, and they'll quote that way as well.
Then you can apply for their rebates.

Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on September 23, 2019, 09:10:56 AM
My 9900kwh system was $26,235 ($2.65/watt)
My 9900kwh system will be $18,365 after the tax incentive. 30% is about a $7,870 tax credit.  ($1.85/watt)

I wonder if the $2.30 USC is getting is before or after tax incentive.
If it's before, then akkord, cares, and I got screwed pretty badly, so I think it's prob. after because I'd like to think we shopped around pretty well.

My pre-tax cost is $14,235 for 12 Panasonic panels that will generate 6,143kWh per year of electricity so my after tax cost is $1.62/KW.  In the past year I used about 5,500kWh but I'll be putting in a spa next year so figured I'll get a little more than what I need now.

I wouldn't say that paying $2.65/KW is getting royally screwed.  One of my clients went with Sunlux having researched a half dozen companies and he recommended that get a quote from them. 

Your cost is actually $3.59/kw.  People compare prices based on array size, not generation amount.  $3.59/kw is actually VERY high.  I hope this includes the roof repairs.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: qwerty on September 23, 2019, 12:06:02 PM
@qwerty:

USCT is going solar.

It’s prime time. :)

I’ll be reaching out to USC to offer $14k to not do solar :-)
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Kings on September 23, 2019, 12:40:51 PM
@qwerty:

USCT is going solar.

It’s prime time. :)

I’ll be reaching out to USC to offer $14k to not do solar :-)

i'm thinking about doing solar, can i have $14k?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on September 23, 2019, 02:41:19 PM
@qwerty:

USCT is going solar.

It’s prime time. :)

I’ll be reaching out to USC to offer $14k to not do solar :-)

I gotta do solar so I can get a 30% tax rebate on my roof repairs.  Akkord is gonna send me his contact.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on September 24, 2019, 02:29:23 PM
My first edison bill came today.  -$52.12. 
I have to pay $12.05 for edisons maintenance and taxes.

I have to correct a mistake I made earlier.  I thought I would not receive a check for the extra electricity I generated at the end of one year (what edison calls "relevant period")  The reality after my relevant period is, if I have -$100.00 electrical generation, then I can get a check from edison or apply it to the new years bills.

So extra electricity generated is paid for by edison.


However, with this revelation, I am gonna start shutting off my AC and opening the windows again.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: nosuchreality on September 24, 2019, 02:49:35 PM
My first edison bill came today.  -$52.12. 
I have to pay $12.05 for edisons maintenance and taxes.

I have to correct a mistake I made earlier.  I thought I would not receive a check for the extra electricity I generated at the end of one year (what edison calls "relevant period")  The reality after my relevant period is, if I have -$100.00 electrical generation, then I can get a check from edison or apply it to the new years bills.

So extra electricity generated is paid for by edison.


However, with this revelation, I am gonna start shutting off my AC and opening the windows again.

You don't get a choice, the will cash it out.  Last year I had a net charge after adding the EV.  Prior to that we had net generation credit.  If recall correctly the payout was pennies on the dollar our $250ish credit was cashed out for something like $58. For net metering, they calculate the credit it at consumer rate but for payout they buy it at adjusted wholesale producer market (non emergency).
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on September 24, 2019, 02:53:19 PM
Well that's good to know....so if I had $1,000 at the end of the year, they would only give me like $150...
It's back to running the AC 24/7
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: nosuchreality on September 24, 2019, 03:07:31 PM
Well that's good to know....so if I had $1,000 at the end of the year, they would only give me like $150...
It's back to running the AC 24/7




But we can run a what if example:
Whatif I left my house for 12 months and didn't use any electricity at all?
Does this mean I will get a huge edison credit @ the true up bill?

So I generate 15,000 KwH of electricity @ and average cost of 0.25/kwh.
15,000 X 0.25 = $3,750/year
If I get $3750/year but they only pay me $1,000...perhaps solar farming is viable.
Would need batteries to up the money during the 4-9 period.

If you generate a net balance of 15,000 KwH and the end of your relevant period was September 2019, you would be paid $570.60.  Or $0.03804 per KwH.

The math by month is available on the SCE Net Surplus Compensation Rate website https://www.sce.com/regulatory/tariff-books/rates-pricing-choices/net-surplus-compensation

That little law change a couple years back where they got to add the minimum monthly charge (That $12 bill you got) also installed this ankle grabbing fuckery.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on September 24, 2019, 03:09:35 PM
yeah I see the chart.  it's like 3 to 4 cents per kwh instead of 25 cents.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: nosuchreality on September 24, 2019, 03:16:12 PM
yeah I see the chart.  it's like 3 to 4 cents per kwh instead of 25 cents.

The 25 may be the prior shaft out rate before the current payout plan post minimum charges which is literally pennies per KwH.  I recall the 25 cents because it upset me back then, then the new law and I didn't realize the shaft out get that bad.  But hey, I use it all and then some now.

At less than 4 cents a KwH, you have absolutely no incentive to conserve (other than saving the planet).
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on September 24, 2019, 04:19:33 PM
yeah I see the chart.  it's like 3 to 4 cents per kwh instead of 25 cents.

The 25 may be the prior shaft out rate before the current payout plan post minimum charges which is literally pennies per KwH.  I recall the 25 cents because it upset me back then, then the new law and I didn't realize the shaft out get that bad.  But hey, I use it all and then some now.

At less than 4 cents a KwH, you have absolutely no incentive to conserve (other than saving the planet).

That means not prime time?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: nosuchreality on September 24, 2019, 05:23:17 PM
yeah I see the chart.  it's like 3 to 4 cents per kwh instead of 25 cents.

The 25 may be the prior shaft out rate before the current payout plan post minimum charges which is literally pennies per KwH.  I recall the 25 cents because it upset me back then, then the new law and I didn't realize the shaft out get that bad.  But hey, I use it all and then some now.

At less than 4 cents a KwH, you have absolutely no incentive to conserve (other than saving the planet).

That means not prime time?

It's so past prime time it means the CA legislature gave SCE, PGE and companies like Tesla (via SolarCity) big fat gravy train of taxpayer money.  (You can just look back 9 years to see my math on what I pay per kwh going forward and how much California tax and rate payers are on the hook for contributing).

As for the 25 cents on the dollar math it works out for how the bait and switch math plays  out on your bill.  To understand the gravy train we need to look at Zub's original scenario. 

Zub's bill arrived with a "credit" of $52.12.   It is calculated based on what Zub would have had to pay retail via his SCE plan for the energy.  At 19 cents per KwH for Tier 1 baseline (previously 13 cents?), Zub generated about 275 KwH.  The bill credit shows $52.12, but if they went to cash out in September 2019, they would have received 275 * $0.03804 = $10.46 for it.  (or about 20-25 cents per dollar of 'credit')

You can see this math in action on 2011 bill via SCE Understanding you NEM billing.  https://www1.sce.com/wps/wcm/connect/b94f53d4-81f5-4e7f-ad0d-1c60c2a1fa64/NEM_FactSheet.pdf?MOD=AJPERES



Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on September 27, 2019, 09:23:34 PM
For the people who got solar, how much did you have to pay your HOA to have them review the plans?  Mine wants $275 which seems a bit ridiculous since there's really no community guideline that they need to verify against (not like Landscape).
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Kings on September 28, 2019, 05:49:36 AM
For the people who got solar, how much did you have to pay your HOA to have them review the plans?  Mine wants $275 which seems a bit ridiculous since there's really no community guideline that they need to verify against (not like Landscape).

seems high.  ours is $100.  is there a portion of that going towards a security deposit for any common area damage during installation?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on September 28, 2019, 03:18:03 PM
Both my $100 amazon gift card and my $250 Panasonic rebate check came in...so it worked.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on September 28, 2019, 08:59:18 PM
For the people who got solar, how much did you have to pay your HOA to have them review the plans?  Mine wants $275 which seems a bit ridiculous since there's really no community guideline that they need to verify against (not like Landscape).

seems high.  ours is $100.  is there a portion of that going towards a security deposit for any common area damage during installation?

I left out the refundable $500 part.  Crazy to think no one has brought this up before with the HOA. 
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: nosuchreality on September 29, 2019, 05:50:53 AM
LOL, I love HOA management companies and 'vetted' vendors.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on September 29, 2019, 01:16:21 PM
Thanks to Akkord, I got $2.65 per watt.  I couldn't get any lower because I'm only getting 12 panels.  Also I got good news on my roof repairs, I don't have to re-felt the entire roof just the weathered sections that had leaks so my roof repair bill went from also $30k to $2k. 
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on September 29, 2019, 01:37:41 PM
It's funny this tesla post got like 10 people to install solar panels....and not from the big solar companies.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Homer_Simpson on September 30, 2019, 07:21:22 AM
Thanks to Akkord, I got $2.65 per watt.  I couldn't get any lower because I'm only getting 12 panels.  Also I got good news on my roof repairs, I don't have to re-felt the entire roof just the weathered sections that had leaks so my roof repair bill went from also $30k to $2k.

real good deal.  what type of panels and inverters do they use?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: akkord on September 30, 2019, 07:34:30 AM
Thanks to Akkord, I got $2.65 per watt.  I couldn't get any lower because I'm only getting 12 panels.  Also I got good news on my roof repairs, I don't have to re-felt the entire roof just the weathered sections that had leaks so my roof repair bill went from also $30k to $2k.

real good deal.  what type of panels and inverters do they use?

Panasonic Panels and Enphase Microinverters, if you do more panels the price goes down to 2.60/watt prior to tax credit. Best I could find when I vetted all the local companies in the OC area that are not using offbrand panels/inverters. 
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: akkord on September 30, 2019, 07:35:59 AM
Ours was $200, but the solar company I used paid for it. I just had to mail the deposit check that I'll get back. 

For the people who got solar, how much did you have to pay your HOA to have them review the plans?  Mine wants $275 which seems a bit ridiculous since there's really no community guideline that they need to verify against (not like Landscape).

seems high.  ours is $100.  is there a portion of that going towards a security deposit for any common area damage during installation?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on October 29, 2019, 04:01:57 PM
My HOA approved my solar panel installation application in 2 days (Tustin Ranch) with no fee/deposit required.  Plans are now at the city waiting for approval.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on October 29, 2019, 04:05:46 PM
My HOA approved my solar panel installation application in 2 days (Tustin Ranch) with no fee/deposit required.  Plans are now at the city waiting for approval.

Purchase or rental?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on October 29, 2019, 04:54:17 PM
My HOA approved my solar panel installation application in 2 days (Tustin Ranch) with no fee/deposit required.  Plans are now at the city waiting for approval.

Purchase or rental?

Purchase
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on October 29, 2019, 04:57:53 PM
My HOA approved my solar panel installation application in 2 days (Tustin Ranch) with no fee/deposit required.  Plans are now at the city waiting for approval.

Purchase or rental?

Purchase

Nice
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on January 20, 2020, 08:24:49 AM
So it's 2020 and how is everyone doing with their solar?

Looks like my neighbor is having theirs installed... some no-name company.

Need to get ours put in before it starts getting hot again.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on January 20, 2020, 06:04:07 PM
So it's 2020 and how is everyone doing with their solar?

Looks like my neighbor is having theirs installed... some no-name company.

Need to get ours put in before it starts getting hot again.

Generating more power than I need in the first few weeks that it's been up.  But I have the pool pump off and will be putting in a spa.  My goal was to get 90-98% energy coverage once the pool and spa are online.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on January 20, 2020, 08:15:10 PM
Did anyone do the Tesla rental?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on January 20, 2020, 08:25:07 PM
Did anyone do the Tesla rental?

I did.  It's exactly as advertised.  Quick install, no BS, no games.  The process was extremely streamlined.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: best_potsticker_in_town on January 21, 2020, 10:08:01 AM
Did anyone do the Tesla rental?

I did.  It's exactly as advertised.  Quick install, no BS, no games.  The process was extremely streamlined.

What size did you go for? What was your bill before and after? Still considering it, but our SCE bill is just about $60/month during non-summer months.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on January 21, 2020, 08:26:11 PM
Did anyone do the Tesla rental?

I did.  It's exactly as advertised.  Quick install, no BS, no games.  The process was extremely streamlined.

What size did you go for? What was your bill before and after? Still considering it, but our SCE bill is just about $60/month during non-summer months.

Went for the small size.  That's all my roof had space for.  My bill averages $75 during on-summer months, but then I got an EV a few months back.  I'm definitely coming up ahead, but the amount is unknown at this point.  For solar, you have to switch to a TOU plan and it makes the calculation very difficult. 
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: hurijo on January 21, 2020, 09:46:36 PM
My main concern with Tesla rental are price increases. Granted removal is free, but still a hassle.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on January 22, 2020, 08:51:59 AM
My main concern with Tesla rental are price increases. Granted removal is free, but still a hassle.

You should be coming up $20-$25 a month ahead with the Tesla rental.  So there is a decent buffer of when it won't make sense anymore.  I don't see removing it as any hassle.  It's just a phone call and you probably only need to be home to sign off on the paperwork when the system is removed. 
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: marmott on January 22, 2020, 09:30:28 AM
You can also expect the price of electricity to keep rising.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Compressed-Village on January 22, 2020, 01:16:44 PM
My main concern with Tesla rental are price increases. Granted removal is free, but still a hassle.

You should be coming up $20-$25 a month ahead with the Tesla rental.  So there is a decent buffer of when it won't make sense anymore.  I don't see removing it as any hassle.  It's just a phone call and you probably only need to be home to sign off on the paperwork when the system is removed.

You forget to mention, be home with the roofer also, as removing will have holes on your roofs. I don’t believe Tesla will responsible to work on patching up.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on January 23, 2020, 09:01:20 AM
My main concern with Tesla rental are price increases. Granted removal is free, but still a hassle.

You should be coming up $20-$25 a month ahead with the Tesla rental.  So there is a decent buffer of when it won't make sense anymore.  I don't see removing it as any hassle.  It's just a phone call and you probably only need to be home to sign off on the paperwork when the system is removed.

You forget to mention, be home with the roofer also, as removing will have holes on your roofs. I don’t believe Tesla will responsible to work on patching up.

Of course Tesla will patch your roof when the system is removed.  It would be pretty ridiculous if they just rip off the panels and leave your roof with a bunch of holes in it..

Tesla, or one of our subcontractors, will patch and seal all roof penetrations associated with removal of the System. Tesla shallhave no obligation to repair any ordinary wear and tear on the Home, or to provide any replacement parts"
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: best_potsticker_in_town on January 23, 2020, 11:12:30 AM
Unfortunately, doesn't look like Tesla rental is offering free removal now. They removed the language from the website as well as the legal mumbo-jumbo.

What happens after I cancel my agreement?
You can cancel your subscription at any time with no cancellation fee. After cancellation, your solar panels will be deactivated and will remain on your roof until you choose to reactivate them or have them removed at a mutually agreeable time. If you want your system removed, Tesla will provide you with a competitive quote.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Kings on January 23, 2020, 12:18:07 PM
Unfortunately, doesn't look like Tesla rental is offering free removal now. They removed the language from the website as well as the legal mumbo-jumbo.

What happens after I cancel my agreement?
You can cancel your subscription at any time with no cancellation fee. After cancellation, your solar panels will be deactivated and will remain on your roof until you choose to reactivate them or have them removed at a mutually agreeable time. If you want your system removed, Tesla will provide you with a competitive quote.

the ol' elon switcheroo
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: daedalus on January 23, 2020, 02:23:34 PM
Sounds too easy.  So they "deactivate" them and I then splice into the power line and use my own inverter with SCE? 

And do they really not want to just do the removal for free, rather than risk finding a pile of glass and sheet metal on the driveway when the "mutually agreeable time" comes?

Removing solar panels cannot be that hard.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Kings on January 23, 2020, 02:48:42 PM
Sounds too easy.  So they "deactivate" them and I then splice into the power line and use my own inverter with SCE? 

And do they really not want to just do the removal for free, rather than risk finding a pile of glass and sheet metal on the driveway when the "mutually agreeable time" comes?

Removing solar panels cannot be that hard.

i like it, but it might sting when the inflated lien (think 20-30% extra cost so that they can beef up the itc) comes back to bite you  :-\
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: nosuchreality on January 23, 2020, 05:38:20 PM
Removing solar panels cannot be that hard.

Removing the panels is super easy.

Having your roof not leak like a spaghetti strainer during the next rain is the hard part.

Doubly so if your prior installers were incentivized to do quick and easy on the install.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: daedalus on January 24, 2020, 08:05:52 PM
Having your roof not leak like a spaghetti strainer during the next rain is the hard part.
The hardest part is getting on the roof.  A plug of roofing sealant injected into each fastener hole should be sufficient to keep water out. 
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on February 03, 2020, 06:30:11 PM
I'm happy with my solar, been generating 15-17KW and only using 11-14KW this past week.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: marmott on February 03, 2020, 08:04:48 PM
Looking at the stats gets pretty addicting  :D I wish Tesla had a desktop website like SolarCity used to have not just the app.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on February 03, 2020, 08:11:37 PM
Looking at the stats gets pretty addicting  :D I wish Tesla had a desktop website like SolarCity used to have not just the app.

Yeah it's kinda fun looking how much power I generated and how power I use each day, but then again I'm a numbers guy.  haha
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on February 04, 2020, 08:59:58 AM
My parents have the Tesla app.  I have the enlighten app from enphase.
enlighten is much better than Tesla as it tells you how much you consume, and how much you produce.

Tesla and solaredge needs more work on their app.  Now that Tesla is nearing $1,000 a share customers should demand they put more resources into their app department.

Here is part of the enphase enlighten app:


(https://marvel-b1-cdn.bc0a.com/f00000000183673/enphase.com/sites/default/files/content/Enlighten-Mobile-Blog-Screenshot-Status.jpg)



You can click on the "array" part and see how much each panel is producing.  I noticed 2 of my panels are shaded by my chimney and so they make < other panels.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on February 04, 2020, 02:31:57 PM
My parents have the Tesla app.  I have the enlighten app from enphase.
enlighten is much better than Tesla as it tells you how much you consume, and how much you produce.

Tesla app does show how much you consume and produce.  Check under "Energy Usage" and the icons on top allow you to toggle through the options.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on February 04, 2020, 04:05:37 PM
2015 was the tesla install and back then there was only production.  I'm sure they can update the system, but I'm not going to deal with it.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on February 06, 2020, 03:01:47 PM
@woodburyowner: Did Tesla have to upgrade your electrical box? Since your screen name may place you in Woodbury, you may not need to but an ex-neighbor of mine just got solar and he said that upgrading his electrical was something he didn't figure into his costs.

I'm wondering if you are renting from Tesla if they include that work or charge you for it.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on February 07, 2020, 08:45:50 AM
@woodburyowner: Did Tesla have to upgrade your electrical box? Since your screen name may place you in Woodbury, you may not need to but an ex-neighbor of mine just got solar and he said that upgrading his electrical was something he didn't figure into his costs.

I'm wondering if you are renting from Tesla if they include that work or charge you for it.

No solar installer will include an upgrade of the electrical panel for a solar install.  This upgrade is not cheap ($2k on the low side) and requires permits and a specialized licensed electrician.   

For me, my panel was completely maxed out and the Tesla installer had to rearrange my panel and combine some breakers to add the PV breaker.  This was included in the install.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: akkord on February 07, 2020, 10:20:08 AM
I think a good price is around 2.5k for the panel upgrade/install, but SCE has a cheaper option, $500 or so?  I can't remember the exact pricing.  You do have to wait for SCE to schedule and come out which delays the overall install process a little longer.  Infinity Solar told us about the cheaper option and one of my coworkers went that route. 

**Disclaimer - I didn't need any updates on my install so don't know the full details or if this option is available for all older panels, but worth checking out.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on February 20, 2020, 09:47:41 AM
I did not know SCE does panel upgrades.

@akkord: So how is your install?

I'm really thinking about just doing the Tesla rental so I don't have to commit any funds. :)
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on February 20, 2020, 09:56:57 AM
I did not know SCE does panel upgrades.

@akkord: So how is your install?

I'm really thinking about just doing the Tesla rental so I don't have to commit any funds. :)

Iho: a helpful tip. I think they took away no removal fee away. Maybe wait until they bring it back? Idk
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on February 20, 2020, 09:59:58 AM
It's okay.... they can just deactivate it and leave it on the roof. Let the next buyer deal with it. :)
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on February 20, 2020, 10:08:32 AM
I think 30 panels was a bit much. 
It's been 5 months since I put my panels on and only in NOV DEC and JAN did I suck more power from Edison then I made from the sun.
It means I'm going to be generating a lot more power than I use for 9 months out of the year.

It's probably time I find some more electrical shit to add to my house that will eat the overproduction.

Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: akkord on February 20, 2020, 10:34:18 AM
I did not know SCE does panel upgrades.

@akkord: So how is your install?

I'm really thinking about just doing the Tesla rental so I don't have to commit any funds. :)

It's not a panel upgrade/replacement, but something they add onto or on top of the existing panel which is why it's cheaper. 

So far no issues, one panel is making 10-15% less than the others for a bit now, but I'll send over to Infinity Solar and see what they say, maybe just a bad/less efficient panel.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: akkord on February 20, 2020, 10:35:35 AM
I think 30 panels was a bit much. 
It's been 5 months since I put my panels on and only in NOV DEC and JAN did I suck more power from Edison then I made from the sun.
It means I'm going to be generating a lot more power than I use for 9 months out of the year.

It's probably time I find some more electrical shit to add to my house that will eat the overproduction.

You'll use a lot more when summer comes around to blast the AC, that will eat up a lot of the excess even though you're still producing more in the summer.  I guess we'll find out in a couple of months. 
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on February 20, 2020, 10:50:55 AM
I noticed one panel making less than the other panels....then I went outside and looked, and it was a shadow of my chimney on the panel that appeared during the winter months, but disappeared in the summer months.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: akkord on February 20, 2020, 10:56:53 AM
I noticed one panel making less than the other panels....then I went outside and looked, and it was a shadow of my chimney on the panel that appeared during the winter months, but disappeared in the summer months.

I have no chimney or tress blocking the panels.  Nothing up there that would throw a shadow on it from what I can see
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zovall on February 20, 2020, 12:17:26 PM
It's probably time I find some more electrical shit to add to my house that will eat the overproduction.

Switch out your candy van for an EV?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: best_potsticker_in_town on April 24, 2020, 09:23:04 AM
I went on Energy Sage and started to collect some quotes. Our SCE bill is only about $50/month ($70/month in the summer). Pricing seems pretty reasonable - getting quotes in the 2.90/watt range for a smaller system (2.5 kw).

That should fulfill our need - but what if we get an EV? For those who have an EV - how much did your consumption increase after charging your car at home. We're specifically looking at getting a Tesla Model Y.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on April 24, 2020, 09:58:50 AM
Starting to heat up... I should have done solar earlier this year but we had this little thing called a pandemic going on.

Are solar companies still installing during this time? I hear new ads on the radio from SunLux (?) saying they are restarting their lease program.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: akkord on April 24, 2020, 10:34:05 AM
I went on Energy Sage and started to collect some quotes. Our SCE bill is only about $50/month ($70/month in the summer). Pricing seems pretty reasonable - getting quotes in the 2.90/watt range for a smaller system (2.5 kw).

That should fulfill our need - but what if we get an EV? For those who have an EV - how much did your consumption increase after charging your car at home. We're specifically looking at getting a Tesla Model Y.

2.5KW is a really small system.  That's what 7-8 panels?  I'd go bigger, you will use more electricity when you get solar and definitely want to use more AC during the summer and to plan for the future like you said, an EV.  Depending on how many miles you drive in your EV, I'm sure there are online calculators on how much you'll charge per year. 

Believe my solar guy was quoting 2.65 for smaller jobs, 2.60 for bigger jobs, but this was before Covid, not sure what pricing is now.  Note my quote may be different equipment than yours, but we had pretty much the top rated panels/inverters at the time of our installs, 3-6 months ago.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on April 24, 2020, 10:38:45 AM
I went on Energy Sage and started to collect some quotes. Our SCE bill is only about $50/month ($70/month in the summer). Pricing seems pretty reasonable - getting quotes in the 2.90/watt range for a smaller system (2.5 kw).

That should fulfill our need - but what if we get an EV? For those who have an EV - how much did your consumption increase after charging your car at home. We're specifically looking at getting a Tesla Model Y.

Then you should not get solar unless you want to keep up with the Jones.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: best_potsticker_in_town on April 24, 2020, 11:09:28 AM
From seeking some quotes - many solar companies are still installing. I haven't started haggling to see how low they'll go. 2.90/watt is the lowest I've been quoted thus far.

2.5kw is indeed small, about 8 panels. I'm going back and asking for a quote for 12 panels with the assumption that we'll be running AC more and also charging an EV. 
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on April 24, 2020, 02:04:23 PM
I went on Energy Sage and started to collect some quotes. Our SCE bill is only about $50/month ($70/month in the summer). Pricing seems pretty reasonable - getting quotes in the 2.90/watt range for a smaller system (2.5 kw).

That should fulfill our need - but what if we get an EV? For those who have an EV - how much did your consumption increase after charging your car at home. We're specifically looking at getting a Tesla Model Y.

You definitely are not a good candidate for solar purchase.  That system is way too small.  Go with the Tesla solar rental program.  $65 (tesla) + $8-10 (sce) per month will get you about 6000 kWh of electricity a year. 
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: best_potsticker_in_town on April 24, 2020, 02:50:16 PM
I went on Energy Sage and started to collect some quotes. Our SCE bill is only about $50/month ($70/month in the summer). Pricing seems pretty reasonable - getting quotes in the 2.90/watt range for a smaller system (2.5 kw).

That should fulfill our need - but what if we get an EV? For those who have an EV - how much did your consumption increase after charging your car at home. We're specifically looking at getting a Tesla Model Y.

You definitely are not a good candidate for solar purchase.  That system is way too small.  Go with the Tesla solar rental program.  $65 (tesla) + $8-10 (sce) per month will get you about 6000 kWh of electricity a year.

Yes, looking into the Tesla subscription option too. Talked to a couple solar vendors and they want to double the number of panels (from 8 to 15-20) just for the car. Tesla subscription might be ideal here. Unfortunately, they're now asking $2,500 for removal, if it ever comes to that.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on April 24, 2020, 04:02:45 PM
I went on Energy Sage and started to collect some quotes. Our SCE bill is only about $50/month ($70/month in the summer). Pricing seems pretty reasonable - getting quotes in the 2.90/watt range for a smaller system (2.5 kw).

That should fulfill our need - but what if we get an EV? For those who have an EV - how much did your consumption increase after charging your car at home. We're specifically looking at getting a Tesla Model Y.

You definitely are not a good candidate for solar purchase.  That system is way too small.  Go with the Tesla solar rental program.  $65 (tesla) + $8-10 (sce) per month will get you about 6000 kWh of electricity a year.

Yes, looking into the Tesla subscription option too. Talked to a couple solar vendors and they want to double the number of panels (from 8 to 15-20) just for the car. Tesla subscription might be ideal here. Unfortunately, they're now asking $2,500 for removal, if it ever comes to that.

Or just wait, they might be another promotion from Tesla with no removal fee.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: best_potsticker_in_town on June 05, 2020, 02:35:21 PM
Pulled the trigger on the Tesla small subscription. Currently preparing paperwork for the HOA approval, which Tesla does not pay for.

Has anyone had to submit their Tesla plans to the HOA? Their plan documents (3 pages total) don't look very detailed in terms of measurements and equipment size/colors that the HOA demands.

It also makes me wonder how many homeowners actually obtained HOA approval prior to their solar install. Seems pointless as the HOA doesn't insure my roof nor can they prevent the install  based on the most recent state laws.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on June 05, 2020, 03:01:18 PM
Pulled the trigger on the Tesla small subscription. Currently preparing paperwork for the HOA approval, which Tesla does not pay for.

Has anyone had to submit their Tesla plans to the HOA? Their plan documents (3 pages total) don't look very detailed in terms of measurements and equipment size/colors that the HOA demands.

It also makes me wonder how many homeowners actually obtained HOA approval prior to their solar install. Seems pointless as the HOA doesn't insure my roof nor can they prevent the install  based on the most recent state laws.

I submitted original plan provided by Tesla and my HOA requested "Provide a roof diagram with the measurements of the edge of the roof and solar panels "  After Tesla updated the plan with this info, I received an approval.  Approval guidelines just depends on your HOA and management company.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zovall on June 19, 2020, 07:26:14 AM
Tesla solar panel prices dropped again.
~$2/watt before any tax incentives (except for the Small which ~$2.5/watt)
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on June 19, 2020, 08:34:09 AM
Looks like they changed the size of their panels are well.  Sizes used to be in increments of 3.78/kw per.  Wonder what type of panels they are using now.  What a crazy deal. 
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: hurijo on June 19, 2020, 08:41:43 AM
For reference, these were the previous prices. The new panels are 340W, the old panels are 315W. Little gain at the lowest option, but very nice cost/benefit at 2nd level and higher.

System size      Cost before incentives
3.78 kW         $10,500
7.56 kW         $19,500
11.34 kW         $29,000
15.12 kW         $37,500
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on June 19, 2020, 08:56:00 AM
The new pricing structure is an absolute game changer.  Not sure how the mom and pop installers can compete with such a drastic price drop by a major provider.  Their only hope is that there is demand for system sizes in between the Tesla ones.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: hurijo on June 19, 2020, 09:00:21 AM
That's the dilemma/conundrum I'm facing. Tesla's lowest option will probably cover 90% of my current use, but my use will probably rise in the future (EV and growing kid). But probably not twice as much that I need 8kW solar system. I don't think my roof even has enough optimal space for the larger system anyway.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on June 19, 2020, 10:12:35 AM
The solar tax incentive is as follows:
2019 ~ 30%
2020 ~ 26%
2021 ~ 22%
2022 ~ 0%
Solar companies will lower their prices as the tax credit diminishes.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: best_potsticker_in_town on June 19, 2020, 10:33:54 AM
I subscribed to the "small" system a couple weeks ago and at the time, it was a 3.78 kW system. It's currently in the permitting process and I just sent Tesla an email saying (in a nice way) that they better update me to the 4.08 kW system when they install.

I keep going back/forth whether I want to subscribe vs. buy. But...the break even being at about year 8-9 for me doesn't make sense to buy. I'll probably be selling this place right around that time.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on June 19, 2020, 12:04:28 PM
I subscribed to the "small" system a couple weeks ago and at the time, it was a 3.78 kW system. It's currently in the permitting process and I just sent Tesla an email saying (in a nice way) that they better update me to the 4.08 kW system when they install.

I keep going back/forth whether I want to subscribe vs. buy. But...the break even being at about year 8-9 for me doesn't make sense to buy. I'll probably be selling this place right around that time.

It's a no brainer decision to subscribe if your break even point is 8-9 years.  Look what just happened to the pricing and efficiency gains on the panels.  People who bought panels before this happened just lost 20-30%.  The increased tax savings of 4% doesn't negate this benefit.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on June 19, 2020, 12:21:35 PM
Will Tesla lower rates on the subscriptions?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on June 19, 2020, 01:23:00 PM
After incentives, solar is now cheaper from about $1.65/kwh a year ago to $1.45/kwh today.
I'm sure the mom and pop solar installers will be lowering their price to compete against Tesla.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: marmott on June 19, 2020, 02:55:39 PM
The new panels look to be 340W compare to 315W before.

https://electrek.co/2020/06/19/tesla-releases-new-solar-panel-slashes-prices/
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on June 19, 2020, 03:22:19 PM
Will Tesla lower rates on the subscriptions?

In a sense they are.  They are giving new customers the newer panels at the same rental fee.  The real question is whether they will upgrade the panels for people who have the previous generation panels.  I called twice today and could not get through to a CSR.  Guess they are getting slammed.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on June 19, 2020, 03:26:49 PM
After incentives, solar is now cheaper from about $1.65/kwh a year ago to $1.45/kwh today.
I'm sure the mom and pop solar installers will be lowering their price to compete against Tesla.

I don't think it was ever $1.65/kwh after 30% fed credit last year.   It was $1.95/kwh according to my math... 3.78 kwh for $10,500, minus 30%.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: best_potsticker_in_town on June 19, 2020, 03:53:31 PM
Will Tesla lower rates on the subscriptions?

In a sense they are.  They are giving new customers the newer panels at the same rental fee.  The real question is whether they will upgrade the panels for people who have the previous generation panels.  I called twice today and could not get through to a CSR.  Guess they are getting slammed.

It's Juneteenth. A Tesla "holiday": https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/19/tech/tesla-juneteenth/index.html
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on June 19, 2020, 03:55:30 PM
The $1.65 is for local solar installers last year.  Back then, Tesla and Sunrun could not compete vs. all the smaller solar companies.  But now Tesla is going into a price war with its smaller competitors which is good for consumers.


I wonder if Tesla is still using solaredge microinverter for this deal.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on June 19, 2020, 09:40:47 PM
The $1.65 is for local solar installers last year.  Back then, Tesla and Sunrun could not compete vs. all the smaller solar companies.  But now Tesla is going into a price war with its smaller competitors which is good for consumers.


I wonder if Tesla is still using solaredge microinverter for this deal.

There was quite a bit discussion last year and the best deal I saw members discuss was $2.60 pre credit or $1.82 post rebate.  And that was for a larger system.  I called 5 different companies and could not get it down to $2.60 due to my smaller size.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on June 20, 2020, 09:21:17 AM
You're right.
$1.82 was the lowest last year.
$1.45 now from TESLA.

What a massive drop! Tesla is going to corner the solar market.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cornflakes on July 01, 2020, 10:55:35 PM
What if Tesla is throwing this super awesome deal for solar at a loss or break even. Out of all new installs they do at this low prices, their mktg must have a number for attachment rate...say x% of new installs buy Tesla car because now with cheap solar energy they can justify EV.

If this strategy works for them, look for TSLA to hit higher than ever.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on July 02, 2020, 01:36:52 AM
You're right.
$1.82 was the lowest last year.
$1.45 now from TESLA.

What a massive drop! Tesla is going to corner the solar market.

The sweet spot is their 8.16 kW system which is just under $1.50 after the rebate. I think I'm going to order it for my dad's house in Las Vegas since I just had a pool put in.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on July 02, 2020, 10:05:50 AM
Tesla jumped way up this week to 1200+ dollars.  Elon has so much money now, he can give it away to make the world a less polluted hell hole.  Good for him.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on July 02, 2020, 10:13:53 AM
You're right.
$1.82 was the lowest last year.
$1.45 now from TESLA.

What a massive drop! Tesla is going to corner the solar market.

The sweet spot is their 8.16 kW system which is just under $1.50 after the rebate. I think I'm going to order it for my dad's house in Las Vegas since I just had a pool put in.

You're talking about a purchase right?

I'm still considering the subscription.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: best_potsticker_in_town on July 02, 2020, 12:00:30 PM
You're right.
$1.82 was the lowest last year.
$1.45 now from TESLA.

What a massive drop! Tesla is going to corner the solar market.

The sweet spot is their 8.16 kW system which is just under $1.50 after the rebate. I think I'm going to order it for my dad's house in Las Vegas since I just had a pool put in.

You're talking about a purchase right?

I'm still considering the subscription.

I signed up for the subscription last month. Still waiting to hear back on the permitting process.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: akkord on July 02, 2020, 09:57:53 PM
You're right.
$1.82 was the lowest last year.
$1.45 now from TESLA.

What a massive drop! Tesla is going to corner the solar market.

The sweet spot is their 8.16 kW system which is just under $1.50 after the rebate. I think I'm going to order it for my dad's house in Las Vegas since I just had a pool put in.

You're talking about a purchase right?

I'm still considering the subscription.

I signed up for the subscription last month. Still waiting to hear back on the permitting process.

Permitting didn't take long for me in Irvine, but the HOA approval dragggggged, hopefully your HOA is good.  I'm 9 months in after PTO and I got approval of completion letter last week, and it stated another 6-8 weeks for my deposit.  I'm expecting I'll need to walk into their office to get my deposit back, needed to grab it myself with landscaping deposit too.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: best_potsticker_in_town on July 02, 2020, 10:07:13 PM
I question the need to get HOA approval. Are they really going to find out? Only if someone reports me. I highly doubt the management company does audits. That said, I was weak and still decided to go through the HOA approvals. Should come back early next week according to the management company.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on July 03, 2020, 11:01:46 PM
You're right.
$1.82 was the lowest last year.
$1.45 now from TESLA.

What a massive drop! Tesla is going to corner the solar market.

The sweet spot is their 8.16 kW system which is just under $1.50 after the rebate. I think I'm going to order it for my dad's house in Las Vegas since I just had a pool put in.

You're talking about a purchase right?

I'm still considering the subscription.

Yeah, a purchase since the pool is about to be completed so that will increase the power usage.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: best_potsticker_in_town on July 06, 2020, 07:23:48 PM
Ordered Tesla on 6/2 and got city approval today. Telsa's scheduling department is supposed to reach out finalize the installation timeframe. Looking for getting these installed and signed off on so I can start using the system. New EV + hot weather...need the solar generation ASAP!
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: best_potsticker_in_town on July 08, 2020, 10:31:29 AM
Pretty quick turnaround from permit approvals to scheduling. My Tesla panel install is scheduled for tomorrow. They came today to do a site walk and got on the roof, popped a tile off to measure the weight rating, and siliconed it back on. I'll update after the install tomorrow.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on July 08, 2020, 10:57:05 AM
What size are you ordering?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: best_potsticker_in_town on July 08, 2020, 01:08:48 PM
What size are you ordering?

Subscription, size "Small", $65/mo. It should meet our needs. With the AC running and also charging an EV, SCE bill is over $100/mo.

When I signed up the promo was first 2 months free - it looks like they removed that. I also got referred by a Tesla owner and will get $250 after install.

Let me know if you buy/subscribe. I can give you a referral for $250.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on July 09, 2020, 12:47:28 AM
What size are you ordering?

Subscription, size "Small", $65/mo. It should meet our needs. With the AC running and also charging an EV, SCE bill is over $100/mo.

When I signed up the promo was first 2 months free - it looks like they removed that. I also got referred by a Tesla owner and will get $250 after install.

Let me know if you buy/subscribe. I can give you a referral for $250.

Shoot me a PM, I'm going to pull the trigger on purchasing solar for my Vegas home in a few weeks.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: best_potsticker_in_town on July 09, 2020, 11:48:05 AM
What size are you ordering?

Subscription, size "Small", $65/mo. It should meet our needs. With the AC running and also charging an EV, SCE bill is over $100/mo.

When I signed up the promo was first 2 months free - it looks like they removed that. I also got referred by a Tesla owner and will get $250 after install.

Let me know if you buy/subscribe. I can give you a referral for $250.

Shoot me a PM, I'm going to pull the trigger on purchasing solar for my Vegas home in a few weeks.

Just sent that over! Let me know if you have questions. They're at my house right now installing.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: best_potsticker_in_town on July 09, 2020, 09:58:30 PM
Tesla installed today as promised. They brought 4 guys, 1 box truck, and 1 van. Started at 8am and finished around 1:30pm. I'm pleased with their work. I was expecting some contractors to come do the install, but they are Tesla (formerly Solar City) employees. The install was streamlined and organized with solid communication throughout the time they were here. They left no trash and cleaned up.

City of Irvine needs to sign off on the install and I think they may be coming as soon as tomorrow. Then SCE would need to issue Permission to Operate and then off we go.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on July 10, 2020, 08:50:42 AM
So did they have to upgrade your electrical panel? Or I think you're in a newer home.

Also, did you get Level 2 outlets with them for charging your Y?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: qwerty on July 10, 2020, 09:34:18 AM
Did they change the format of the forum? I used to be able to see the new posts since my last visit, now I can only see them on the right side of the page, but those are just the latest posts vs all the threads with new post since the last visit.

Anyone else experiencing this?

Thanks
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on July 10, 2020, 10:47:13 AM
Did they change the format of the forum? I used to be able to see the new posts since my last visit, now I can only see them on the right side of the page, but those are just the latest posts vs all the threads with new post since the last visit.

Anyone else experiencing this?

Thanks

That's a symptom of Covid. :)

Kidding... everything looks the same to me.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: qwerty on July 10, 2020, 11:23:49 AM
I found a workaround. But weird that the layout changed, for me at least.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: best_potsticker_in_town on July 10, 2020, 08:26:40 PM
So did they have to upgrade your electrical panel? Or I think you're in a newer home.

Also, did you get Level 2 outlets with them for charging your Y?

No, they didn't need to upgrade it. They were able to get it to fit by moving some stuff around.

I hired an electrician to put in a NEMA 14-50 outlet in my garage about 2 weeks prior to my Tesla delivery. Cost $300. The Tesla comes with a mobile charger so I just use that. I get the same 32 AMP I would get from a Level 2.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: hurijo on July 16, 2020, 11:26:20 AM
It's time for your monthly Tesla price adjustment! All system sizes now harmonized to $2.01/W pre-incentive, or $1.49/W post-incentive. This is the biggest benefit to the Small system, which moved from $10k to $8.2k (pre-incentive). The other 3 sizes actually went up in price, with the biggest jump (+$2800) for the largest system.

So tempting...
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on July 16, 2020, 01:15:52 PM
It's time for your monthly Tesla price adjustment! All system sizes now harmonized to $2.01/W pre-incentive, or $1.49/W post-incentive. This is the biggest benefit to the Small system, which moved from $10k to $8.2k (pre-incentive). The other 3 sizes actually went up in price, with the biggest jump (+$2800) for the largest system.

So tempting...

Nice, I was going back and forth between the 4kW and 8kW system for my Las Vegas home so now I'll focus on the 4kW system. I might wait a month or two to see if they drop prices further.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on July 16, 2020, 02:04:36 PM
I think this maybe the time to pull the trigger and get solar. You factor more electricity use.

I missed the monthly subscriptions no removal fee. (even though my friends and family did it.)
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on July 16, 2020, 03:36:11 PM
It's time for your monthly Tesla price adjustment! All system sizes now harmonized to $2.01/W pre-incentive, or $1.49/W post-incentive. This is the biggest benefit to the Small system, which moved from $10k to $8.2k (pre-incentive). The other 3 sizes actually went up in price, with the biggest jump (+$2800) for the largest system.

So tempting...

Nice, I was going back and forth between the 4kW and 8kW system for my Las Vegas home so now I'll focus on the 4kW system. I might wait a month or two to see if they drop prices further.

Too bad we do not live in NY. They get an additional NY solar tax credit. Also, NYserda solar incentive. (Plus the fed credit) So for the small system your looking at approximate $3.3k (after incentives)

California price $6k (after incentive) for small system
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: freedomcm on July 17, 2020, 06:58:40 AM
Is that cost normalized for the reduced sunlight available in NY versus CA?


It's time for your monthly Tesla price adjustment! All system sizes now harmonized to $2.01/W pre-incentive, or $1.49/W post-incentive. This is the biggest benefit to the Small system, which moved from $10k to $8.2k (pre-incentive). The other 3 sizes actually went up in price, with the biggest jump (+$2800) for the largest system.

So tempting...

Nice, I was going back and forth between the 4kW and 8kW system for my Las Vegas home so now I'll focus on the 4kW system. I might wait a month or two to see if they drop prices further.

Too bad we do not live in NY. They get an additional NY solar tax credit. Also, NYserda solar incentive. (Plus the fed credit) So for the small system your looking at approximate $3.3k (after incentives)

California price $6k (after incentive) for small system
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: best_potsticker_in_town on July 17, 2020, 09:10:39 AM
Damn...I may have bought if this was the price when I ordered. Brings the breakeven from 8 years to 5 for me.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Kings on July 17, 2020, 10:12:14 AM
Is that cost normalized for the reduced sunlight available in NY versus CA?

ny irradiation will be 25-30% less than ca in most cases
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: hurijo on July 17, 2020, 11:29:27 AM
Damn...I may have bought if this was the price when I ordered. Brings the breakeven from 8 years to 5 for me.

Doesn't hurt to ask Tesla if you can do that. Especially if you haven't gotten PTO yet. I think Tesla's 7-day return policy (if that applies to subscription) is after PTO date. ;)
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on July 17, 2020, 12:01:12 PM
I priced an 8.16w system:

To subscribe it's $130/mo, to purchase using their loan (20 years 5.99% interest), it's $91/mo. And on the purchase, I can add 1 Powerall for $47/mo extra to bring the total bill to $138/mo. The cash price for that is $16,400+11,000-$2500 (discount for solar and wall installation)=$24,900, $18,426 after incentives.

Seems like a purchase is better than subscription at this point, even if I use their financing.

Tesla Solar Time?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on July 17, 2020, 12:09:14 PM
Forget the power wall. (Sounds like power ball)

The price will go down most likely for the battery.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on July 17, 2020, 12:14:54 PM
Forget the power wall. (Sounds like power ball)

The price will go down most likely for the battery.

True. They recommended 2, but I put it down to 1 because we need it just in case. Had a power outage a while ago (only an hour or so) but would feel better if we had the wall.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: best_potsticker_in_town on July 17, 2020, 02:06:46 PM
Damn...I may have bought if this was the price when I ordered. Brings the breakeven from 8 years to 5 for me.

Doesn't hurt to ask Tesla if you can do that. Especially if you haven't gotten PTO yet. I think Tesla's 7-day return policy (if that applies to subscription) is after PTO date. ;)

I'll probably get PTO in the next couple weeks. The city signed off today. I'll reach out and ask what they can do for me.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: daedalus on July 17, 2020, 05:11:05 PM
Tempted
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on July 17, 2020, 05:31:55 PM
Tempted

Buy before they change the price.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: daedalus on July 17, 2020, 06:12:38 PM
I see solar panels coming down in price quicker than labor costs rising.  However, I do agree incentives will only get worse and eventually disappear.

My biggest hangup is how it will complicate roof replacement when that time comes.  I'm probably 10-15 years away.  Roof looks good, but was installed in the late '90s.  If the roof was new or due it would be a no brainer.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on July 17, 2020, 08:53:34 PM
Tesla’s Solar Bet Could Be A Game-Changer For U.S. Renewables

https://oilprice.com/Alternative-Energy/Solar-Energy/Teslas-Solar-Bet-Could-Be-A-Game-Changer-For-US-Renewables.html
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on July 19, 2020, 10:52:32 PM
Hmm if you finance with Tesla you will pay around $21-22k for panels that are worth $16.4k.



I priced an 8.16w system:

To subscribe it's $130/mo, to purchase using their loan (20 years 5.99% interest), it's $91/mo. And on the purchase, I can add 1 Powerall for $47/mo extra to bring the total bill to $138/mo. The cash price for that is $16,400+11,000-$2500 (discount for solar and wall installation)=$24,900, $18,426 after incentives.

Seems like a purchase is better than subscription at this point, even if I use their financing.

Tesla Solar Time?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on July 19, 2020, 11:24:42 PM
Hmm if you finance with Tesla you will pay around $21-22k for panels that are worth $16.4k.



I priced an 8.16w system:

To subscribe it's $130/mo, to purchase using their loan (20 years 5.99% interest), it's $91/mo. And on the purchase, I can add 1 Powerall for $47/mo extra to bring the total bill to $138/mo. The cash price for that is $16,400+11,000-$2500 (discount for solar and wall installation)=$24,900, $18,426 after incentives.

Seems like a purchase is better than subscription at this point, even if I use their financing.

Tesla Solar Time?

Hence why it's better to pay cash for a smaller system like the 4.08 kW system.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Kenkoko on July 20, 2020, 12:08:03 AM
My biggest hangup is how it will complicate roof replacement when that time comes.  I'm probably 10-15 years away.  Roof looks good, but was installed in the late '90s.  If the roof was new or due it would be a no brainer.

Same exact hangup for me. I'm less optimistic about my current roof lasting another 15 years tho, maybe 10 max.

Are you thinking about Tesla Solar Roof instead of panels?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on July 20, 2020, 01:18:22 AM
My biggest hangup is how it will complicate roof replacement when that time comes.  I'm probably 10-15 years away.  Roof looks good, but was installed in the late '90s.  If the roof was new or due it would be a no brainer.

Same exact hangup for me. I'm less optimistic about my current roof lasting another 15 years tho, maybe 10 max.

Are you thinking about Tesla Solar Roof instead of panels?

Get it and worry about it later.  :)
The solar roof is kinda over priced.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: daedalus on July 20, 2020, 01:57:09 AM
Are you thinking about Tesla Solar Roof instead of panels?

Not at all.  Price is way too high, and there's too much gray area over any future issues.  What if the Tesla roof leaks and the plywood sheathing rots out?  Who do I call?  At least solar panels are somewhat straightforward for removal by roofers.

I think I'm in for the panels.  A small system will do fine for us.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on July 20, 2020, 06:14:54 AM
Haven't heard or seen a Tesla Solar roof being fully installed yet. Any links to reviews of that product?

My .02c
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on July 20, 2020, 08:05:01 AM
Hmm if you finance with Tesla you will pay around $21-22k for panels that are worth $16.4k.



I priced an 8.16w system:

To subscribe it's $130/mo, to purchase using their loan (20 years 5.99% interest), it's $91/mo. And on the purchase, I can add 1 Powerall for $47/mo extra to bring the total bill to $138/mo. The cash price for that is $16,400+11,000-$2500 (discount for solar and wall installation)=$24,900, $18,426 after incentives.

Seems like a purchase is better than subscription at this point, even if I use their financing.

Tesla Solar Time?

Hence why it's better to pay cash for a smaller system like the 4.08 kW system.

True... but 4.08kW may not be enough for an average family, especially if they are running 1 or 2 EVs.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Kenkoko on July 20, 2020, 10:23:43 AM
Haven't heard or seen a Tesla Solar roof being fully installed yet. Any links to reviews of that product?

My .02c

From what I've heard, most are installed in the bay area.

Here's a pretty good review from an actual owner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFWKVraGI1E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFWKVraGI1E)
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: best_potsticker_in_town on July 27, 2020, 12:26:55 AM
I gave Tesla a call and they are able to convert my subscription contract to a straight cash purchase. What's cool is they gave me a small depreciation discount ($120) since their system automatically calculates that in when you decide to buy your leased panels. The "sticker" price is $8,200 for a 4.08 kwh system. I was sold a 3.84 kwh hour system, so my sale price was $7,800. With the discount, it ends up being just under $7,700, or $5,900 net after tax credit and sales tax.

The kicker here is that Tesla had ran out of the 3.84 kwh system by the time my install appointment came around. So, they put the 4.08 kwh system up. They actually call this possibility out in the contract - saying that Tesla may size you up 10% more for no cost based on inventory.

I'm obviously ecstatic to have all this line up. Not so much because of Tesla's customer service (it took me 10 tries to get a hold of someone) - but because of stars aligning on their side. The only bad thing is, my PTO will likely be delayed because they need to resubmit paperwork with me owning the system rather than Tesla Energy. I probably won't be able to start using my system for another few weeks but I can be patient due to these good fortunes.  ;D
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: daedalus on July 27, 2020, 12:41:57 AM
What's the physical layout?  Do they run a large conduit from the roof down the side of the house to where the main breaker panel is?  Is the inverter installed right next to the panel?  How do they feed wires to the existing circuit?  I'm not liking the idea of having this stuff where the panel is, because that's the visible driveway side.  I'm wondering if they can at least stick the inverter in the crawlspace, which already has conduit access to the panel.  Does the homeowner have much say in the matter?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on July 27, 2020, 12:46:58 AM
Hmm if you finance with Tesla you will pay around $21-22k for panels that are worth $16.4k.



I priced an 8.16w system:

To subscribe it's $130/mo, to purchase using their loan (20 years 5.99% interest), it's $91/mo. And on the purchase, I can add 1 Powerall for $47/mo extra to bring the total bill to $138/mo. The cash price for that is $16,400+11,000-$2500 (discount for solar and wall installation)=$24,900, $18,426 after incentives.

Seems like a purchase is better than subscription at this point, even if I use their financing.

Tesla Solar Time?

Hence why it's better to pay cash for a smaller system like the 4.08 kW system.

True... but 4.08kW may not be enough for an average family, especially if they are running 1 or 2 EVs.

I'm not buying the solar for a future buyer and since I'll be a late adopter to an EV car I'm not too concerned. A 4.08kW system will take care of 80%-90% of the electric needs of my Vegas home.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on July 27, 2020, 07:20:26 AM
Hmm if you finance with Tesla you will pay around $21-22k for panels that are worth $16.4k.



I priced an 8.16w system:

To subscribe it's $130/mo, to purchase using their loan (20 years 5.99% interest), it's $91/mo. And on the purchase, I can add 1 Powerall for $47/mo extra to bring the total bill to $138/mo. The cash price for that is $16,400+11,000-$2500 (discount for solar and wall installation)=$24,900, $18,426 after incentives.

Seems like a purchase is better than subscription at this point, even if I use their financing.

Tesla Solar Time?

Hence why it's better to pay cash for a smaller system like the 4.08 kW system.

True... but 4.08kW may not be enough for an average family, especially if they are running 1 or 2 EVs.

I'm not buying the solar for a future buyer and since I'll be a late adopter to an EV car I'm not too concerned. A 4.08kW system will take care of 80%-90% of the electric needs of my Vegas home.

This may be the best deal for solar. Unless you buy the solar panels at wholesale prices and do it yourself. (that is what I read in a different deal forum)
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on July 27, 2020, 08:14:53 AM
I gave Tesla a call and they are able to convert my subscription contract to a straight cash purchase. What's cool is they gave me a small depreciation discount ($120) since their system automatically calculates that in when you decide to buy your leased panels. The "sticker" price is $8,200 for a 4.08 kwh system. I was sold a 3.84 kwh hour system, so my sale price was $7,800. With the discount, it ends up being just under $7,700, or $5,900 net after tax credit and sales tax.

Are you sure you can still claim the tax credit?  I wonder if you would still be able to claim the tax credit if you bought the system the following year. 
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: best_potsticker_in_town on July 27, 2020, 08:25:08 AM
What's the physical layout?  Do they run a large conduit from the roof down the side of the house to where the main breaker panel is?  Is the inverter installed right next to the panel?  How do they feed wires to the existing circuit?  I'm not liking the idea of having this stuff where the panel is, because that's the visible driveway side.  I'm wondering if they can at least stick the inverter in the crawlspace, which already has conduit access to the panel.  Does the homeowner have much say in the matter?

Yes, the inverter goes next to your breaker panel and they run a conduit up the side of your wall. Tesla did a fairly good job hiding this as they ran the conduit next to my rain gutter so it's not very noticeable. Per city code, they will color match the conduit color to match your exterior wall and roof color. It helps to have some extra paint so that it'll be a more precise match...otherwise, the have some stock paints they can mix.

Are you sure you can still claim the tax credit?  I wonder if you would still be able to claim the tax credit if you bought the system the following year.

Yes. Since I haven't received PTO, that's what gives me tax credit access. It sounds like if I had already received PTO (w/ system owner as Tesla Energy), I would not be eligible for the tax credit. But, since I got a hold of them before the PTO was granted, they can back it out and re-apply.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: daedalus on July 27, 2020, 04:28:17 PM
Does the inverter have a fan inside it for cooling?  That would probably rule out whether they would allow me to put it in the crawlspace.  It would be quite an eyesore on the side of the house, plus that's right where my sprinkler timer, gate opener and water/gas shutoff valves are.  Getting crowded.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: marmott on July 27, 2020, 10:19:01 PM
Both my inverters are in the garage on the exterior wall (Tesla install). Not sure I would like them outside.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: best_potsticker_in_town on July 27, 2020, 11:00:22 PM
Does the inverter have a fan inside it for cooling?  That would probably rule out whether they would allow me to put it in the crawlspace.  It would be quite an eyesore on the side of the house, plus that's right where my sprinkler timer, gate opener and water/gas shutoff valves are.  Getting crowded.

My understanding is it has to be close to the panel. But, it doesn't hurt to ask them.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: daedalus on July 27, 2020, 11:32:35 PM
The way my house is set up, 1 corner of the crawlspace is only ~2 feet from the panel, and there's even unused large conduit that connects the crawlspace to the breaker cavity.  It's tall with man door access.  But the crawlspace is dusty.  If there are fans in the inverter that force airflow through it (like a PC) then it's probably not a good environment.  But if not, then it's perfect.  Cool, shaded, close and out of sight. 
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: akkord on July 28, 2020, 06:02:54 AM
Tesla doesn't offer micro inverters?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: marmott on July 28, 2020, 09:39:16 AM
The way my house is set up, 1 corner of the crawlspace is only ~2 feet from the panel, and there's even unused large conduit that connects the crawlspace to the breaker cavity.  It's tall with man door access.  But the crawlspace is dusty.  If there are fans in the inverter that force airflow through it (like a PC) then it's probably not a good environment.  But if not, then it's perfect.  Cool, shaded, close and out of sight.

This is the inverter I have from a 2016 Tesla install, not sure which inverters they are installing nowadays: https://www.delta-americas.com/Products/CategoryListT1.aspx?CID=0505&PID=1759&hl=en-US&Name=Solivia%20Series%203.0%20%E2%80%93%207.6kW

It uses convection cooling so a dusty environment should not be an issue.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: best_potsticker_in_town on August 07, 2020, 04:44:49 PM
Got PTO on my system today and it is turned on and working! From start to end, it took about 60 days. I heard that they're moving much faster right now and installing within a week or two of leaving a deposit.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on August 07, 2020, 04:53:46 PM
Got PTO on my system today and it is turned on and working! From start to end, it took about 60 days. I heard that they're moving much faster right now and installing within a week or two of leaving a deposit.

I assume with out dealing with hoa red tape. (House with no hoa)
My general assumption is if they see Tesla or major solar company installing it. But if it is some guy with no license or just got his license maybe question it.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Kings on August 07, 2020, 04:58:45 PM
Got PTO on my system today and it is turned on and working! From start to end, it took about 60 days. I heard that they're moving much faster right now and installing within a week or two of leaving a deposit.

within a week or two of the $100 deposit?  i'm having a much different experience:

-july 20 deposit
-july 27 all pictures uploaded and forms e-signed

and i've been stuck on the permit section ever since.  not really any communication from tesla either.  i'll probably wait until tues or weds next week to call them and see if i can get an update.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: best_potsticker_in_town on August 08, 2020, 10:17:07 PM
In Irvine, my sibling placed their order on 7/22 and has install scheduled for 8/10. No HOA - permit was approved in 1 day back on 7/31.

If you live in Irvine - check https://permits.cityofirvine.org/irvinepermits/

You can look up permits for your address (and any other, for that matter). If you see your solar permit approved, call Tesla and tell them. Tesla doesn't check status on your permit every day. This online permitting system is only available during business hours so something to keep in mind when searching.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on August 09, 2020, 07:41:03 PM
I submitted my $100 deposit payment via CC on July 20th and uploaded all of the pictures required by July 27th. Technicians came out to the home on Aug 5th and looks like the permits were obtained on Aug 7th. Now my status is "Installation: Coming Soon" on the tesla website.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: best_potsticker_in_town on August 09, 2020, 09:01:17 PM
They'll probably call you in the next few days to schedule your install. If you don't want to wait, you can call their schedulers at: +1 (650) 546-8402

By the way, did you use my referral?  ;)
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on August 09, 2020, 09:11:30 PM
They'll probably call you in the next few days to schedule your install. If you don't want to wait, you can call their schedulers at: +1 (650) 546-8402

By the way, did you use my referral?  ;)

My cousin and her family actually installed the Tesla solar at their home in Las Vegas so she asked me to use her referral link.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: best_potsticker_in_town on August 09, 2020, 09:14:47 PM
Nice! Keep it in the family.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on August 09, 2020, 09:51:33 PM
I think if you refer 10 people that signs up with Tesla solar. Then you get the Tesla powerwall battery.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on August 09, 2020, 09:52:18 PM
I submitted my $100 deposit payment via CC on July 20th and uploaded all of the pictures required by July 27th. Technicians came out to the home on Aug 5th and looks like the permits were obtained on Aug 7th. Now my status is "Installation: Coming Soon" on the tesla website.

I assume no HOA? (explaining the quick install)
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on August 09, 2020, 10:15:19 PM
I submitted my $100 deposit payment via CC on July 20th and uploaded all of the pictures required by July 27th. Technicians came out to the home on Aug 5th and looks like the permits were obtained on Aug 7th. Now my status is "Installation: Coming Soon" on the tesla website.

I assume no HOA? (explaining the quick install)

HOA approved the solar within a week of me submitting the request.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: best_potsticker_in_town on August 09, 2020, 10:15:33 PM
On the day of install, the Tesla installer asked if I got HOA approval. I said yes, it should be on file. I asked do people not get approval? He told me that a fair share of people they install for don't get HOA approval. Tesla allows it - just asks for a signed waiver of liability. Interesting...makes me wonder how many projects going on (solar, backyard, or otherwise) haven't been HOA approved.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on August 09, 2020, 10:17:04 PM
On the day of install, the Tesla installer asked if I got HOA approval. I said yes, it should be on file. I asked do people not get approval? He told me that a fair share of people they install for don't get HOA approval. Tesla allows it - just asks for a signed waiver of liability. Interesting...makes me wonder how many projects going on (solar, backyard, or otherwise) haven't been HOA approved.

I read somewhere that legally speaking, the HOA can't deny you getting solar installed.  They can require that pipes and what not be painted to match the exterior of the home or else you'll get warning letters and/or small fines.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: best_potsticker_in_town on August 09, 2020, 10:35:08 PM
On the day of install, the Tesla installer asked if I got HOA approval. I said yes, it should be on file. I asked do people not get approval? He told me that a fair share of people they install for don't get HOA approval. Tesla allows it - just asks for a signed waiver of liability. Interesting...makes me wonder how many projects going on (solar, backyard, or otherwise) haven't been HOA approved.

I read somewhere that legally speaking, the HOA can't deny you getting solar installed.  They can require that pipes and what not be painted to match the exterior of the home or else you'll get warning letters and/or small fines.

Damn, did I waste $250 and the $500 deposit I haven't gotten back to yet? Lol...better safe than sorry, I guess. Anyway, I think color matching conduit is a city requirement - which would be required during the permitting process.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: akkord on August 10, 2020, 06:23:05 AM
Damn, did I waste $250 and the $500 deposit I haven't gotten back to yet? Lol...better safe than sorry, I guess. Anyway, I think color matching conduit is a city requirement - which would be required during the permitting process.

If they ever find out, will it be worth the hassle with dealing in the HOA in the future, will the fines be >$250, or will they require the panels to be moved to a different location, what's the cost of moving them in the future? Its $250 for peace of mind. The $500 you'll need to bug your HOA, at least I needed to bug mine to get my deposit back. 
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: akkord on August 10, 2020, 06:27:34 AM
On the day of install, the Tesla installer asked if I got HOA approval. I said yes, it should be on file. I asked do people not get approval? He told me that a fair share of people they install for don't get HOA approval. Tesla allows it - just asks for a signed waiver of liability. Interesting...makes me wonder how many projects going on (solar, backyard, or otherwise) haven't been HOA approved.

I read somewhere that legally speaking, the HOA can't deny you getting solar installed.  They can require that pipes and what not be painted to match the exterior of the home or else you'll get warning letters and/or small fines.

They can't stop you from installing, but they can state where the panels need to be on the roof, and what configuration they need to be in and where the conduit, etc needs to be.  If you don't have them in the accurate spot or within the HOA design guideilnes, they can keep fining you forever until fixed...and you'd be on the HOA shitlist...they can start looking at your house and start dinging you for everything.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Kenkoko on August 10, 2020, 10:21:31 AM
Your HOA authority on this is somewhat  limited. Legally, they can only ask for “reasonable restrictions “. The Tesla rep told me that of the recent cases that actually went to litigation, the courts had defined “reasonable restrictions “ as less than costing $1000 or less than 10% solar efficiency.

If your solar design team can demonstrate your HOA design change request will cost you more than 1k in cost or drop in more than 10% production, you will most likely win if you take the legal route. A competent / properly advised HOA board would not fight you on this.


Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: akkord on August 10, 2020, 11:06:33 AM
Your HOA authority on this is somewhat  limited. Legally, they can only ask for “reasonable restrictions “. The Tesla rep told me that of the recent cases that actually went to litigation, the courts had defined “reasonable restrictions “ as less than costing $1000 or less than 10% solar efficiency.

If your solar design team can demonstrate your HOA design change request will cost you more than 1k in cost or drop in more than 10% production, you will most likely win if you take the legal route. A competent / properly advised HOA board would not fight you on this.

Is all this extra work, time spent, and potentially paying legal fees more than $250 for the initial approval?  I'm not saying you're wrong, but all that headache for $250 for all those who would want to avoid an HOA approval.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Compressed-Village on August 10, 2020, 11:16:34 AM
Your HOA authority on this is somewhat  limited. Legally, they can only ask for “reasonable restrictions “. The Tesla rep told me that of the recent cases that actually went to litigation, the courts had defined “reasonable restrictions “ as less than costing $1000 or less than 10% solar efficiency.

If your solar design team can demonstrate your HOA design change request will cost you more than 1k in cost or drop in more than 10% production, you will most likely win if you take the legal route. A competent / properly advised HOA board would not fight you on this.

Is all this extra work, time spent, and potentially paying legal fees more than $250 for the initial approval?  I'm not saying you're wrong, but all that headache for $250 for all those who would want to avoid an HOA approval.

Agree, do it once, do it right the first time.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Kenkoko on August 10, 2020, 11:42:09 AM
Your HOA authority on this is somewhat  limited. Legally, they can only ask for “reasonable restrictions “. The Tesla rep told me that of the recent cases that actually went to litigation, the courts had defined “reasonable restrictions “ as less than costing $1000 or less than 10% solar efficiency.

If your solar design team can demonstrate your HOA design change request will cost you more than 1k in cost or drop in more than 10% production, you will most likely win if you take the legal route. A competent / properly advised HOA board would not fight you on this.

Is all this extra work, time spent, and potentially paying legal fees more than $250 for the initial approval?  I'm not saying you're wrong, but all that headache for $250 for all those who would want to avoid an HOA approval.

My post wasn’t meant to be a specific response to someone’s particular situation. It’s merely to inform people of what they would likely face if they were to contest the HoA. Whether that’s due to HOA dragging their feet or HOA demanding design changes.

In my opinion, it’s always best to know both your potential upside and downside.

And I do agree with you, most people likely have a competent HOA not dragging its feet w/ approval and won’t be demanding big design changes. In most situations, paying and waiting for the approval is the smart thing to do.

But not every HOA board is competent and/or well advised. As someone who has fought the HOA and won (about pool construction), I can definitely attest to that.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on August 10, 2020, 01:22:38 PM
A buddy of mine did this and his HOA process was basically getting neighbors to sign-off on his solar installation.

The HOA had no other requirements other than to notify his neighbors from what I was told... maybe other HOAs require proof of insurance, aesthetics considerations... etc.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: best_potsticker_in_town on August 12, 2020, 09:44:05 AM
My "small" size system has been on for about a week now. I'm generating 24-25 kwh per day. Really pleased with that production, which will obviously go down in the fall/winter months. Even more pleased that the system is on for the upcoming heat wave!
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on August 12, 2020, 10:31:04 AM
My "small" size system has been on for about a week now. I'm generating 24-25 kwh per day. Really pleased with that production, which will obviously go down in the fall/winter months. Even more pleased that the system is on for the upcoming heat wave!

I have a 13.5 kW system because we have 2 electrics and were driving a lot. With the pandemic hitting and my commute drastically changing we were hitting huge energy surpluses. My 12 month period just ended and I have $300 in surplus. I should sell off electricity to my neighbors or something.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on August 12, 2020, 01:28:41 PM
So that's the question, even with 2 EVs, if one or both of us are majorly remote, do we even need a larger system? Well... maybe to run the AC more since we are home. :)
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: hurijo on August 12, 2020, 02:35:34 PM
My "small" size system has been on for about a week now. I'm generating 24-25 kwh per day. Really pleased with that production, which will obviously go down in the fall/winter months. Even more pleased that the system is on for the upcoming heat wave!
Can you share a screenshot of your generation graph in the app? Also, do you just have 1 array or multiple, and facing which direction?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on August 12, 2020, 09:28:11 PM
My "small" size system has been on for about a week now. I'm generating 24-25 kwh per day. Really pleased with that production, which will obviously go down in the fall/winter months. Even more pleased that the system is on for the upcoming heat wave!

Nice, my 3.96kW system that I installed last year also has been producing 23-26kW per day for the past few months. In the winter time I was producing 13-16kW per day on mostly sunny days.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: best_potsticker_in_town on August 12, 2020, 10:43:20 PM
My "small" size system has been on for about a week now. I'm generating 24-25 kwh per day. Really pleased with that production, which will obviously go down in the fall/winter months. Even more pleased that the system is on for the upcoming heat wave!
Can you share a screenshot of your generation graph in the app? Also, do you just have 1 array or multiple, and facing which direction?

See attached for this week. I have two arrays. 9 panels facing south and 3 panels facing east.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: yes2 on August 12, 2020, 11:14:53 PM
My typical avg use daily is about 15kwh per SCE bill, in future I would want to look into having 1 electric car for the household. In such a scenario does the small system meet the needs? what is the typical additional kwh per month to plan for if the electric car does about 800 miles per month?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: best_potsticker_in_town on August 12, 2020, 11:37:56 PM
My typical avg use daily is about 15kwh per SCE bill, in future I would want to look into having 1 electric car for the household. In such a scenario does the small system meet the needs? what is the typical additional kwh per month to plan for if the electric car does about 800 miles per month?

I did about 800 miles in my first month of owning my Model Y. I charged twice a week, at around 20-25 kwh per charge. So you're probably looking at an extra 150-200 kwh per month, or 5-6 kwh per day.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on August 12, 2020, 11:40:59 PM
My typical avg use daily is about 15kwh per SCE bill, in future I would want to look into having 1 electric car for the household. In such a scenario does the small system meet the needs? what is the typical additional kwh per month to plan for if the electric car does about 800 miles per month?

Easy to calculate but you need to know your car's efficiency of kW per mile. Tesla Model 3 as an example is rated for 75 kW battery for 330 miles. Then figure out how much you estimate to drive and you can figure that out. You will have range loss and charging inefficiency to account for though.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on August 12, 2020, 11:45:29 PM
My typical avg use daily is about 15kwh per SCE bill, in future I would want to look into having 1 electric car for the household. In such a scenario does the small system meet the needs? what is the typical additional kwh per month to plan for if the electric car does about 800 miles per month?

Inquire with Tesla solar. They get that question all the time. (with access to your previous energy bills) They probably will ask about usage.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: daedalus on August 13, 2020, 01:25:13 AM
My typical avg use daily is about 15kwh per SCE bill, in future I would want to look into having 1 electric car for the household. In such a scenario does the small system meet the needs? what is the typical additional kwh per month to plan for if the electric car does about 800 miles per month?

I did about 800 miles in my first month of owning my Model Y. I charged twice a week, at around 20-25 kwh per charge. So you're probably looking at an extra 150-200 kwh per month, or 5-6 kwh per day.

2nd this.  Lots of variables but a nice round generic # for electric vehicles is 4 miles per kwh.  Easy math to get some idea of where you'll land.  800 miles will add ~200 kwh per month to your usage.  It'll probably we weighted toward the weekdays though, so you might see close to 25kwh usage on those days.  A small system in the summer might make that much, but consider too the power plan you'll be on.  What happen if you're consuming at a different time period than when you're generating.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on August 14, 2020, 09:26:49 PM
Anyone notice how little solar energy was generated today?  My 3.78kwh system only generated 20.7kWh.  I guess air temperature is not a super good indicator of how much energy the sun is emitting.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on August 14, 2020, 10:18:11 PM
Anyone notice how little solar energy was generated today?  My 3.78kwh system only generated 20.7kWh.  I guess air temperature is not a super good indicator of how much energy the sun is emitting.

My 3.96kW system generated 24kW today.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cornflakes on August 15, 2020, 12:45:10 AM
Anyone notice how little solar energy was generated today?  My 3.78kwh system only generated 20.7kWh.  I guess air temperature is not a super good indicator of how much energy the sun is emitting.

My 3.96kW system generated 24kW today.

There is a sweet spot of temp range. Too hot a day like today means less efficient panels.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on August 15, 2020, 07:43:32 AM
Yesterday I produced 55.7 whereas 8/11 I produced 62.7 so yes I agree with that comment. Both days have similar generation curves but yesterday was just less efficient.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: best_potsticker_in_town on August 15, 2020, 03:24:58 PM
Generated 22 kwh yesterday. The partly cloudy days today and Thursday hurt production a bit as well.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: marmott on August 15, 2020, 04:21:11 PM
I have 10 panels facing east and 22 facing west, a very good production day is around 58kWh. I've attached my best week so far.

Yesterday we reached our highest power consumption over 24h I've seen at 101kWh for only 44kWh produced (PG&E cut our power for 2 hours so we lost production)  :o The AC is on all day trying to get through the heat wave here in Norcal.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: daedalus on August 15, 2020, 07:28:35 PM
101kwh!  Are there electric cars involved?  That's a LOT of juice!  That's ~5 days' worth of power for us.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: iacrenter on August 16, 2020, 11:17:03 AM
Marmott,

My suggestion is to switch your indoor grow lights from HID to LED. You'll save a ton of money on electricity and still have good crop yields for your NorCal customers  ;)

https://www.royalqueenseeds.com/blog-cannabis-cultivation-tips-how-to-set-up-indoor-grow-lights-n670
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: marmott on August 16, 2020, 01:01:38 PM
ahah, it's 105F outside and we keep the house at 78F so both AC units end up running all day, no EV charging.

So far this year we've consumed 4,865kWh for 9,534kWh produced so I don't mind a few more days at 100kWh. But it's time to seriously look at EVs or growing...
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: daedalus on August 16, 2020, 02:10:39 PM
Wow.  105 is too hot for me.   We keep the house around 72-74, but our "scorching" temp today is 84*F.  Even that has me sweating like crazy after only 30 minutes of working outside.  I'm considering putting a split unit AC in the garage, but it has no insulation so would cost a lot to run.  Yeah, I need to get on this solar bandwagon.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: HMart on August 22, 2020, 02:23:04 PM
Does anyone want to share their Energy Sage referral code?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: lookingnirvine on August 22, 2020, 03:18:58 PM
Referral link is below.  I am in process of installing solar with Altair Solar via EnergySage.  They are based locally in Irvine, which is a positive as response times and on-site meetings are good.  I originally went with a company called Solar Optimum which was a big mistake.  I was misled by Solar Optimum's high ratings on Energy Sage, which was completely opposite of what I experienced with them during the whole process.  I cancelled my contract and went with Altair Solar, who will be installing within the coming month.  My experience with Altair has so far been great - they have been very responsive, give detailed information, and very competitive in terms of pricing.

http://www.energysage.com/?rc=e1.s5lngp
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: HMart on August 22, 2020, 08:12:29 PM
Referral link is below.  I am in process of installing solar with Altair Solar via EnergySage.  They are based locally in Irvine, which is a positive as response times and on-site meetings are good.  I originally went with a company called Solar Optimum which was a big mistake.  I was misled by Solar Optimum's high ratings on Energy Sage, which was completely opposite of what I experienced with them during the whole process.  I cancelled my contract and went with Altair Solar, who will be installing within the coming month.  My experience with Altair has so far been great - they have been very responsive, give detailed information, and very competitive in terms of pricing.

http://www.energysage.com/?rc=e1.s5lngp

Interesting. Altair bid $11k thru EnergySage for a 4.08kW system with 12 panels. Tesla's price for a 4.08kW system is only $8,200. Are you just getting a way better deal than me?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: hurijo on August 22, 2020, 08:46:51 PM
Interesting. Altair bid $11k thru EnergySage for a 4.08kW system with 12 panels. Tesla's price for a 4.08kW system is only $8,200. Are you just getting a way better deal than me?

I don't think anyone can beat Tesla on price. He/she probably just decided to go for a local installer for better customer service.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: hurijo on August 22, 2020, 08:50:28 PM
Referral link is below.  I am in process of installing solar with Altair Solar via EnergySage.  They are based locally in Irvine, which is a positive as response times and on-site meetings are good.  I originally went with a company called Solar Optimum which was a big mistake.  I was misled by Solar Optimum's high ratings on Energy Sage, which was completely opposite of what I experienced with them during the whole process.  I cancelled my contract and went with Altair Solar, who will be installing within the coming month.  My experience with Altair has so far been great - they have been very responsive, give detailed information, and very competitive in terms of pricing.

http://www.energysage.com/?rc=e1.s5lngp

Good to hear about the good experience with Altair and the warning with Solar Optimum. I've heard good things about Altair elsewhere as well. Some TI members went with Infinity Solar and had good experiences I believe. Although based on my energysage quote, they came in higher than Altair. Did they hook you up with the LG 345W panels?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: lookingnirvine on August 22, 2020, 11:08:21 PM
All depends on your energy needs.  I signed up even before Tesla started dropping their price, however, the price Altair is giving me is quite less than Tesla's Medium size package, which was closest to my needs.  Just keep in mind the type of solar panels you would be getting.  Altair is providing me with Panasonic 340W panels, whereas last I checked, Tesla was offering some no-name made in China brand panels. 
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: HMart on August 22, 2020, 11:39:54 PM
Interesting. Altair bid $11k thru EnergySage for a 4.08kW system with 12 panels. Tesla's price for a 4.08kW system is only $8,200. Are you just getting a way better deal than me?

I don't think anyone can beat Tesla on price. He/she probably just decided to go for a local installer for better customer service.

I asked the installer if they would be able to beat the price. I got an entire essay back basically saying No.

Quote
As you know, Tesla's small size system of 4 KW system is $8,200 + tax.  Instead of using the premium panels such as LG, Panasonic or Solaria, and premium Enphase micro inverters like the one that I proposed to you, they use standard Hanwha QCELL solar panels and String inverter for their system. Their system comes with 10 years roof penetration warranty and 10 - 12 years inverter warranty (depend on what inverter brand that they provide you).  Also they do not offer production guarantee for you.  Another thing that you need to know, they do your system design remotely and they will not send you the site survey technician until the installation day. Many of our customers want to know if we can beat TESLA pricing with the same panels and inverter.
If you do not mind getting the standard solar panel and string inverter, our company came up with our best offer using the Hanwha Q-cell panel and SolarEdge inverter with optimizers. For your 4KW system, we can use 12 Q-cell panels and SolarEdge 3.8 kW inverter (SE3800H) with power optimizers.
The gross cost is $10,404. After the tax credit is $7,698.96.
Tesla advertises on their website that they are selling a small size system for $8,200 before tax. Please note that their system MAY NOT come with power optimizers. (they will only give you power optimizer if they deem it is beneficial for you). Depend on the tax rate in your city, their system with the tax is about $9,000 gross cost. We are only about $1,404 difference in gross cost. The net cost difference of $1,038.96. When you consider that they may not give you power optimizers, then the net cost difference comes in less than $250. So, for about less than $250 difference, you are getting support from us.
Remember that Tesla doesn't even give a performance guarantee like we do and therefore, they have no incentives to come back out to your house for months to replace the inverter. I will tell you that it will also take us about 2-3 weeks to replace the SolarEdge inverter if it fails because SolarEdge generally takes 2-3 weeks to ship out a new inverter. But even with SolarEdge's slow process, Tesla shouldn't take 3+ months to come out and replace your inverter.
So, here is the recap of the comparison:
For less than $250 net cost difference, you are getting the following from our company:

a) Power optimizers (Tesla may not provide this for you and therefore they are saving more than $840 savings)

b) They don't offer a performance guarantee. So, if your system goes down for just once and Tesla doesn't come out to your house to replace the inverter for 3+ months, you are losing $300+ (assuming it will cost you $100 a month which would be a very conservative number. Summer loss would be significantly higher).

c) They don't offer the warranties we offer. We still provide 25 yrs workmanship, 25 yrs labor warranty, 25 yrs leak-free roof penetration warranty, 25 yrs equipment warranty. So, you definitely have a peace of mind from us. Tesla doesn't offer 25 yrs warranties.

d) Tesla doesn't come out to your house to do a site survey.  They only send someone on the day of the installation. You are signing a contract without knowing all the factors. They could charge you a lot more when they come out. They do allow you to cancel your contract within 7 days after the installation if you are not happy. However, you are taking a risk with 26% tax credit. Let's say they come out to your house and do the installation in mid-October. All of sudden they charge you a lot more or you are not happy with their service and you decide to cancel the contract at that point. With less than 3 months left to find another company and start the process all over again, you may not get your PTO by the end of the year to claim the 26% tax credit. This also means that you are going to lose 4% which will put you on another $400 loss.
When you add everything up, we are offering a better deal than Tesla.

The choice is yours to make, but I am obligated to explain the risks of working with Tesla so that you can make an educated decision.  Also you may have read the reviews for TESLA from their existing customers describing their experience with TESLA after the installation.

Please take a look on the link below before you pull the trigger.

https://www.solarreviews.com/installers/solarcity-reviews?page=2 

Here is our company reviews:

https://www.solarreviews.com/installers/altair-solar-inc-reviews
https://www.yelp.com/biz/altair-solar-irvine

Please let me know if you have any questions. Solar is a big investment for you and I really want to make sure you get the best value, service, support and warranty for your investment. I am here to help you with your solar project.

I don't know how to really evaluate the strength of this guy's claims. There seem like some good points and some not-so-good points.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: aquabliss on August 23, 2020, 12:04:27 AM
Thanks for posting that.  A local Irvine company with 25yr leaky roof warranty and good reviews is worth the extra cost IMO.  Will probably contact these guys.  If only I lived in Altair I’d probably get a discount.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Kings on August 23, 2020, 06:18:52 AM
Thanks for posting that.  A local Irvine company with 25yr leaky roof warranty and good reviews is worth the extra cost IMO.  Will probably contact these guys.  If only I lived in Altair I’d probably get a discount.

solar companies are a dime-a-dozen and can go out of business in a flash.  i went with tesla not only for the price, but because i believe they will be one of only a few solar companies operating today that will still be around in 25 years so i have a little more comfort knowing that their warranty be worth the paper they print it on.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: OCtoSV on August 23, 2020, 11:47:03 AM
Going with Tesla 8.16kw system + 3 Powerwalls providing full house backup incl AC for $30K net of the tax credit. Just waiting now on HOA approval. Tesla service has been exemplary so far.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on August 23, 2020, 12:17:08 PM
Is 3 Powerwalls too many? Do you have an election tampering server farm or grow house? :)
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on August 23, 2020, 12:28:20 PM
I have Tesla Solar and received "Hanwha Q-cell panel and SolarEdge inverter with optimizers" since I have multiple arrays.  Just depends on whether it's needed or not.  You can always check with Tesla and not get the install done if you are not happy with the hardware configuration.  I have multiple friends and family go with Tesla solar and we are all extremely happy with the install process and price.  I feel bad for the 3rd party mom and pop companies since they really can't compete when it's a run of the mill install.       
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on August 23, 2020, 12:43:30 PM
.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on August 23, 2020, 12:44:06 PM
a) Power optimizers (Tesla may not provide this for you and therefore they are saving more than $840 savings)
>> If they aren't beneficial for your particular setup, who cares?  If you do need them, Tesla will include it.


b) They don't offer a performance guarantee. So, if your system goes down for just once and Tesla doesn't come out to your house to replace the inverter for 3+ months, you are losing $300+ (assuming it will cost you $100 a month which would be a very conservative number. Summer loss would be significantly higher).
>> How often does a system really go down or have an issue?  Seems like non-issue..


c) They don't offer the warranties we offer. We still provide 25 yrs workmanship, 25 yrs labor warranty, 25 yrs leak-free roof penetration warranty, 25 yrs equipment warranty. So, you definitely have a peace of mind from us. Tesla doesn't offer 25 yrs warranties.
>> What type of warranty is offered?  Is this like a carpet type warranty where there are so many exclusions and requirements that you can never claim it?  Or is it like a Costco type warranty.  Does a 25 year equipment warranty even make sense if the equipment will be outdated after well before then? 

d) Tesla doesn't come out to your house to do a site survey.  They only send someone on the day of the installation. You are signing a contract without knowing all the factors. They could charge you a lot more when they come out. They do allow you to cancel your contract within 7 days after the installation if you are not happy. However, you are taking a risk with 26% tax credit. Let's say they come out to your house and do the installation in mid-October. All of sudden they charge you a lot more or you are not happy with their service and you decide to cancel the contract at that point. With less than 3 months left to find another company and start the process all over again, you may not get your PTO by the end of the year to claim the 26% tax credit. This also means that you are going to lose 4% which will put you on another $400 loss.
When you add everything up, we are offering a better deal than Tesla.

>> Maybe this changed recently, but Tesla did send someone out to inspect everything a week or two before the actual install.   Also, my entire process only took a month or so for me from start to finish. 


The choice is yours to make, but I am obligated to explain the risks of working with Tesla so that you can make an educated decision.  Also you may have read the reviews for TESLA from their existing customers describing their experience with TESLA after the installation.
>> You need to find region specific reviews.  These will be MUCH MORE accurate than reviews from out of state.  Most Irvine installs will be very run of the mill basic installs where the Tesla system/process will work perfectly. 

Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on August 23, 2020, 12:46:46 PM
Is 3 Powerwalls too many? Do you have an election tampering server farm or grow house? :)

For me, the sweet spot would be 2 Powerwalls especially with how frequent we are driving now with COVID.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: akkord on August 23, 2020, 01:21:49 PM
Who's done research on batteries.  I know solar is pretty efficient now after years of being on the market, hows battery efficiency and will they get better/cheaper in the next couple years?  I feel like batteries are relatively new compared to panels and still needs time to mature.  **I've done zero research so hopefully someone more informed can chime in. 
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: qwerty on August 23, 2020, 01:45:09 PM
What is the break even on a $30K solar system? 20+ years?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: marmott on August 23, 2020, 04:17:15 PM
Is 3 Powerwalls too many? Do you have an election tampering server farm or grow house? :)

For me, the sweet spot would be 2 Powerwalls especially with how frequent we are driving now with COVID.

I looked into and this is what a neighbor sent me a few months back. In essence the 3rd one is close to free.

Just need to have the space for 3.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on August 23, 2020, 08:27:40 PM
What is the break even on a $30K solar system? 20+ years?

The break even is dependent on your usage. My system was about 28k before tax credit. I have a 5 year break even.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: aquabliss on August 24, 2020, 12:26:34 AM
Looks like Tesla does solar financing at 5.99% over 20 years.  Bad interest rate but comes out to around $0down $110/mo for a $16k system (before tax credit) that should leave me with a $10/mo bill with SCE so I still come out ahead on monthly basis.

Anyone try this option?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on August 24, 2020, 01:40:47 AM
Looks like Tesla does solar financing at 5.99% over 20 years.  Bad interest rate but comes out to around $0down $110/mo for a $16k system (before tax credit) that should leave me with a $10/mo bill with SCE so I still come out ahead on monthly basis.

Anyone try this option?

How about opening up a HELOC to pay for the solar? That way you'll have a lower rate and the interest may be tax deductible.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on August 24, 2020, 07:33:12 AM
Looks like Tesla does solar financing at 5.99% over 20 years.  Bad interest rate but comes out to around $0down $110/mo for a $16k system (before tax credit) that should leave me with a $10/mo bill with SCE so I still come out ahead on monthly basis.

Anyone try this option?

How about opening up a HELOC to pay for the solar? That way you'll have a lower rate and the interest may be tax deductible.

That's what I would do if I went the buy route.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: hurijo on August 24, 2020, 11:41:57 AM
Who's done research on batteries.  I know solar is pretty efficient now after years of being on the market, hows battery efficiency and will they get better/cheaper in the next couple years?  I feel like batteries are relatively new compared to panels and still needs time to mature.  **I've done zero research so hopefully someone more informed can chime in.

I think batteries are still new and will definitely get cheaper in the future. The dilemma right now is that you can get the 26% fed credit on the battery right now if you install with solar. And after 2021, no more credit. So the question becomes will battery prices drop by 22-26% in two years to be cheaper than getting them now? I don't think so.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: aquabliss on August 24, 2020, 12:00:44 PM
Who's done research on batteries.  I know solar is pretty efficient now after years of being on the market, hows battery efficiency and will they get better/cheaper in the next couple years?  I feel like batteries are relatively new compared to panels and still needs time to mature.  **I've done zero research so hopefully someone more informed can chime in.

I think batteries are still new and will definitely get cheaper in the future. The dilemma right now is that you can get the 26% fed credit on the battery right now if you install with solar. And after 2021, no more credit. So the question becomes will battery prices drop by 22-26% in two years to be cheaper than getting them now? I don't think so.

I thought the tax credit is on the entire installation cost, not jut the battery?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: qwerty on August 24, 2020, 12:05:00 PM
What is the break even on a $30K solar system? 20+ years?

The break even is dependent on your usage. My system was about 28k before tax credit. I have a 5 year break even.

Not sure how much the tax credit was but let’s say your net cost was 20k. That means you are saving about 333/month.

I don’t have EVs so not sure what kind of impact it has on a bill. But we run the AC all of the time and the highest out bill has been is 278 this summer. Outside of the summer I think the bill is around 125-150/month. So my full year average is about 200/month. It would take me about 8.3 years to break even on a net solar system of $20k.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on August 24, 2020, 01:27:02 PM
-$174

My AUG bill from edison after solar install 1 year ago. 
True up bill in AUG.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on August 24, 2020, 01:55:45 PM
What is the break even on a $30K solar system? 20+ years?

The break even is dependent on your usage. My system was about 28k before tax credit. I have a 5 year break even.

Not sure how much the tax credit was but let’s say your net cost was 20k. That means you are saving about 333/month.

I don’t have EVs so not sure what kind of impact it has on a bill. But we run the AC all of the time and the highest out bill has been is 278 this summer. Outside of the summer I think the bill is around 125-150/month. So my full year average is about 200/month. It would take me about 8.3 years to break even on a net solar system of $20k.

Without battery storage approximately 12k after tax incentives for Tesla 8.16 system.
But if you add 2 powerwall batteries it comes to 22k net after tax incentives. (Maybe your talking about that? Idk)
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: aquabliss on August 24, 2020, 01:57:25 PM
What is the break even on a $30K solar system? 20+ years?

The break even is dependent on your usage. My system was about 28k before tax credit. I have a 5 year break even.

Not sure how much the tax credit was but let’s say your net cost was 20k. That means you are saving about 333/month.

I don’t have EVs so not sure what kind of impact it has on a bill. But we run the AC all of the time and the highest out bill has been is 278 this summer. Outside of the summer I think the bill is around 125-150/month. So my full year average is about 200/month. It would take me about 8.3 years to break even on a net solar system of $20k.

You could get Tesla 8.16kW for about $12.1k after tax credit.  About a 5ish year break even.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: hurijo on August 24, 2020, 02:05:45 PM
I thought the tax credit is on the entire installation cost, not jut the battery?

Yes, it's on entire installation cost.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: OCtoSV on August 24, 2020, 02:21:39 PM
After a detailed analysis including specifying the model of my AC compressor Tesla confirmed in writing I require 3 PWs to provide full power backup for my house incl AC. I'll post updates on the process and progress.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on August 25, 2020, 08:15:41 AM
What is the break even on a $30K solar system? 20+ years?

The break even is dependent on your usage. My system was about 28k before tax credit. I have a 5 year break even.

Not sure how much the tax credit was but let’s say your net cost was 20k. That means you are saving about 333/month.

I don’t have EVs so not sure what kind of impact it has on a bill. But we run the AC all of the time and the highest out bill has been is 278 this summer. Outside of the summer I think the bill is around 125-150/month. So my full year average is about 200/month. It would take me about 8.3 years to break even on a net solar system of $20k.

This is my breakdown by average energy generation and consumption down to the hour and comparing between the 3 available SCE plans. There's several other datasheets behind this but this is the summary for me. 5 years breakeven if we went 4-9pm and 7 years with Prime. We went with Prime because of lower cost which means longer breakeven, so I misspoke when I said 5 years for me.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on August 25, 2020, 11:15:05 AM
What is the break even on a $30K solar system? 20+ years?

The break even is dependent on your usage. My system was about 28k before tax credit. I have a 5 year break even.

Not sure how much the tax credit was but let’s say your net cost was 20k. That means you are saving about 333/month.

I don’t have EVs so not sure what kind of impact it has on a bill. But we run the AC all of the time and the highest out bill has been is 278 this summer. Outside of the summer I think the bill is around 125-150/month. So my full year average is about 200/month. It would take me about 8.3 years to break even on a net solar system of $20k.

Cost of electricity is only going to go up... bro... solar is prime time now. :)
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on August 25, 2020, 11:22:30 AM
Also a net $20k solar system is about a 10-11 kW system which is huge. That's sized for my 2 electric cards and 24/7 AC usage. Your system would be much smaller if you didn't have EVs.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on August 25, 2020, 11:35:24 AM
What is the break even on a $30K solar system? 20+ years?

The break even is dependent on your usage. My system was about 28k before tax credit. I have a 5 year break even.

Not sure how much the tax credit was but let’s say your net cost was 20k. That means you are saving about 333/month.

I don’t have EVs so not sure what kind of impact it has on a bill. But we run the AC all of the time and the highest out bill has been is 278 this summer. Outside of the summer I think the bill is around 125-150/month. So my full year average is about 200/month. It would take me about 8.3 years to break even on a net solar system of $20k.

Cost of electricity is only going to go up... bro... solar is prime time now. :)

This is true but if I cover 80-90% of my electricity needs then I'm fine.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Soylent Green Is People on September 05, 2020, 06:01:45 PM
Bumping this as I can't find the thread on solar efficiency. How are everyone's panels functioning in this 108° heat?

My .02c
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: AW on September 05, 2020, 06:20:23 PM
Bumping this as I can't find the thread on solar efficiency. How are everyone's panels functioning in this 108° heat?

My .02c

Not any better than earlier in the week, super hot days makes it slightly worse...

Clear cool days are the best
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: aquabliss on September 05, 2020, 08:37:10 PM
What are the rules on the tax credits?  Do the panels have to be installed in the calendar year 2020 to get the 26% credit or just start the process?  I figure as slow as HOAs move, I won’t make it in 2020 (installed) unless I start the process now.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: hurijo on September 05, 2020, 09:48:36 PM
They definitely need to be installed, but it’s also up for debate whether you need PTO (permission to operate) from your electrical provider (as they can drag their feet on this) by end of 2020. The wording in IRS guidance is vague, but I believe general consensus is that the system just needs to be installed and paid for in full by end of the year, and doesn’t necessarily need PTO.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on September 06, 2020, 09:56:54 AM
They definitely need to be installed, but it’s also up for debate whether you need PTO (permission to operate) from your electrical provider (as they can drag their feet on this) by end of 2020. The wording in IRS guidance is vague, but I believe general consensus is that the system just needs to be installed and paid for in full by end of the year, and doesn’t necessarily need PTO.

As long as the panels are installed and paid for in 2020 then you should be able to get the tax credit in 2020.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: akkord on September 06, 2020, 05:21:04 PM
I know a guy who just paid in full for solar panels at the end of last year and claimed the tax credit, even though not installed yet due to HOA or city permittiing.  Not sure what the tax loophole was, but he bought 30+ panels for a couple of his homes with pools.  He has more money than me and can pay for accountants and tax attorneys.  If he ever gets audited I'll report back.

They definitely need to be installed, but it’s also up for debate whether you need PTO (permission to operate) from your electrical provider (as they can drag their feet on this) by end of 2020. The wording in IRS guidance is vague, but I believe general consensus is that the system just needs to be installed and paid for in full by end of the year, and doesn’t necessarily need PTO.

As long as the panels are installed and paid for in 2020 then you should be able to get the tax credit in 2020.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on September 06, 2020, 05:39:23 PM
Here's a picture of the Tesla 4kW system installed on the roof (one the right, the pool solar is on the left) of my Las Vegas home. Should be connected up with NV Energy in 2-3 weeks.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: daedalus on September 07, 2020, 12:30:32 AM
Looks like they faced the panels south.   With the upcoming TOU plan that sets peak hours as 5-9PM I'm wondering if west facing panels might make the most sense.    The south facing roof also faces the street, so west facing would be preferred from an aesthetic perspective.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: hurijo on September 07, 2020, 08:28:38 AM
My opinion
S > W no matter what
SW > SE
S vs SW is debatable, but I'd still take S. I think it offsets either way you go. The panels will collect more energy midday with S facing panels, but the energy is worth less.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: OCtoSV on September 08, 2020, 08:40:04 AM
My HOA took ~2 weeks to provide approval and San Jose took around the same time for permits - much faster than I envisioned. I am scheduled for installation of an 8.16kW Tesla Solar + 3 Powerwall system next week. I'll post pictures.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: akkord on September 08, 2020, 08:44:20 AM
My HOA took ~2 weeks to provide approval and San Jose took around the same time for permits - much faster than I envisioned. I am scheduled for installation of an 8.16kW Tesla Solar + 3 Powerwall system next week. I'll post pictures.

It was probably posted, but it's a long thread, how much is 3 powerwalls post tax credit/rebates?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on September 08, 2020, 09:02:31 AM
My HOA took ~2 weeks to provide approval and San Jose took around the same time for permits - much faster than I envisioned. I am scheduled for installation of an 8.16kW Tesla Solar + 3 Powerwall system next week. I'll post pictures.

It was probably posted, but it's a long thread, how much is 3 powerwalls post tax credit/rebates?

I don't know about the rebates now but last I check it was about 6K to 8K per powerwall...no bulk discounts. 
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: OCtoSV on September 08, 2020, 09:02:47 AM
My HOA took ~2 weeks to provide approval and San Jose took around the same time for permits - much faster than I envisioned. I am scheduled for installation of an 8.16kW Tesla Solar + 3 Powerwall system next week. I'll post pictures.

It was probably posted, but it's a long thread, how much is 3 powerwalls post tax credit/rebates?

the system + 3 PWs combined are $30K net of the 26% FTC. The PWs are $6500 each but I received a $2500 discount for combining the two.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: hurijo on September 08, 2020, 09:47:20 AM
I'm curious about the decision for 3 PW with a 8.16kW system... usually they recommend 1 PW per 4-5kW solar system. Is it to be self-sufficient for outages?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: OCtoSV on September 08, 2020, 10:15:00 AM
I'm curious about the decision for 3 PW with a 8.16kW system... usually they recommend 1 PW per 4-5kW solar system. Is it to be self-sufficient for outages?

i wanted full backup power including AC, which Tesla said requires 3 PWs.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on September 08, 2020, 10:27:43 AM
I'm curious about the decision for 3 PW with a 8.16kW system... usually they recommend 1 PW per 4-5kW solar system. Is it to be self-sufficient for outages?

i wanted full backup power including AC, which Tesla said requires 3 PWs.

What does full backup power mean though? Duration matters. If you have solar panels during a power outage, you will still have power as you are directly pulling energy from your panels and not from the grid.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: AW on September 08, 2020, 10:37:00 AM
I'm curious about the decision for 3 PW with a 8.16kW system... usually they recommend 1 PW per 4-5kW solar system. Is it to be self-sufficient for outages?

i wanted full backup power including AC, which Tesla said requires 3 PWs.

What does full backup power mean though? Duration matters. If you have solar panels during a power outage, you will still have power as you are directly pulling energy from your panels and not from the grid.
I have a weak ass system, ac use is greater than what my panels generate even at peak
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: OCtoSV on September 08, 2020, 10:57:57 AM
the 3 PWs can store 40.5 kWh and can deliver 15kW of continuous power and 21kW of surge. Tesla analyzed 1 year of PGE bills to determine the solution for my requirement. I'm stoked that I only have 1 week left to live in fear of a sudden blackout.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvinecommuter on September 08, 2020, 11:15:44 AM
I'm curious about the decision for 3 PW with a 8.16kW system... usually they recommend 1 PW per 4-5kW solar system. Is it to be self-sufficient for outages?

i wanted full backup power including AC, which Tesla said requires 3 PWs.

What does full backup power mean though? Duration matters. If you have solar panels during a power outage, you will still have power as you are directly pulling energy from your panels and not from the grid.

Not really...without a backup and panels don't feed into the house because the power grid serves as your backup.  The system basically stops because the power company cut the circuit.

A powerwall collects and stores the power generated by the panel for use later.  Even in an underpowered system, the battery recharges itself at nighttime (when demand and prices are lower) for use when the panel is not able to support the power demand. 

You need a powerwall/battery to be off the grid...ie independent of the brown-out issues.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on September 08, 2020, 02:22:53 PM
For all of you folks who got or thinking of getting powerwall/s, have you considered getting a generator?  There are generators that run off gasoline and there are ones that run off natural gas.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: OCtoSV on September 08, 2020, 03:07:45 PM
whole-house generator solutions are very difficult to get permitted due to the noise, and portable generators aren't taking you off the grid. Most cities also require 5ft clearance from the property for permitting. I started down this path but the Generac dealer who came out to quote told me to expect at least a 6 month permitting process.

Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: marmott on September 08, 2020, 03:20:16 PM
My HOA took ~2 weeks to provide approval and San Jose took around the same time for permits - much faster than I envisioned. I am scheduled for installation of an 8.16kW Tesla Solar + 3 Powerwall system next week. I'll post pictures.

I'm curious to see how much wall space it takes to install 3 PWs, can you share once you are done?

I'm attaching again the cost breakdown a neighbor got for PW. The difference between 2 and 3 looks minimal.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: daedalus on September 08, 2020, 08:18:00 PM
Why wouldn't you get a SGIP rebate for 1 or 2 powerwalls?  And why is the fed tax credit not much different between 2 and 3 powerwalls?  I'm missing something.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: marmott on September 08, 2020, 08:32:29 PM
The SGIP rebate is for PG&E and it comes from different pools depending if you install 1, 2 or 3 PWs. The 1 and 2 PWs pools were exhausted back then, not the 3PWs.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: OCtoSV on September 17, 2020, 11:28:53 AM
quick update: Tesla installation stalled once they got on the roof and determined our mid-80s tract home roof has tile on top of rafters, and they need to lay down plywood. The installers said they have recently encountered this a lot as Tesla cut their surveyors that previously did a physical inspection prior to install day. Supposedly Tesla will schedule the plywood installation but no idea yet of the cost
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: akkord on September 17, 2020, 11:31:09 AM
How long does Tesla warranty for?  Do they guarantee production of the panels to a certain percentage, we know there will be degradation over time, but after X years it should still be > X%. 
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: aquabliss on September 17, 2020, 11:35:45 AM
looks like minimum 80% for 25yrs:
https://www.tesla.com/support/energy/solar-panels/learn/solar-service-warranty
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on September 17, 2020, 12:21:38 PM
City of Las Vegas inspector approved the solar installation, now I'm waiting for NV Energy to come out so I can turn on the solar.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: akkord on September 17, 2020, 12:45:04 PM
City of Las Vegas inspector approved the solar installation, now I'm waiting for NV Energy to come out so I can turn on the solar.

You can flip it on, you just won't have PTO yet from NV Energy, your surplus won't count towards anything, but what you generate and use still helps.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: akkord on September 17, 2020, 12:46:34 PM
looks like minimum 80% for 25yrs:
https://www.tesla.com/support/energy/solar-panels/learn/solar-service-warranty

When I was getting quotes it was 10% for 20 years...I guess in 20-25 years most people will need a new roof and there will be hopefully cheaper and better tech.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: OCtoSV on September 28, 2020, 11:19:40 AM
Tesla determined my tile roof needed plywood laid underneath, which they came back with a reasonable quote for ($10K for the whole roof). Looking forward to hopefully having installation and PGE turn-on before the end of the year.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on September 28, 2020, 11:53:50 AM
Tesla determined my tile roof needed plywood laid underneath, which they came back with a reasonable quote for ($10K for the whole roof). Looking forward to hopefully having installation and PGE turn-on before the end of the year.

Curious why you chose to do the whole roof instead of just the section that the solar panels will be installed on.  $10k sounds like a lot to me for just adding some plywood underneath the original tile.  What are the details on what needs to be done?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: aquabliss on September 28, 2020, 12:24:33 PM
Ya you’re pretty easy going for an extra $10k to spend.  That significantly increases your break even date, probably would have said thanks, no thanks.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: OCtoSV on September 28, 2020, 01:34:04 PM
Whole roof was only $2400 more. This will also hugely benefit the temp on the 2nd floor on really hot days given no current barrier between the tiles and rafters.  They take care of all permitting, install sheathing and underlayment and provide a 5 yr warranty on the workmanship. And they handle everything - very convenient.

I am more concerned with having full backup power incl AC for what I envision to be frequent blackouts (as the CA grid gets taxed in the coming years relative to the amount of new investment being allocated and no appetite for nuclear) than I am about payback period. I don't want my wife to worry when it's 90+ and 20mph winds.


I'll post pictures of the Powerwalls once they're mounted on my garage wall.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on September 28, 2020, 02:39:30 PM
You got a good deal. For only $2400 more. (not to the $10k right?)
Did you also get the power wall battery?

Whole roof was only $2400 more. This will also hugely benefit the temp on the 2nd floor on really hot days given no current barrier between the tiles and rafters.  They take care of all permitting, install sheathing and underlayment and provide a 5 yr warranty on the workmanship. And they handle everything - very convenient.

I am more concerned with having full backup power incl AC for what I envision to be frequent blackouts (as the CA grid gets taxed in the coming years relative to the amount of new investment being allocated and no appetite for nuclear) than I am about payback period. I don't want my wife to worry when it's 90+ and 20mph winds.


I'll post pictures of the Powerwalls once they're mounted on my garage wall.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: OCtoSV on September 29, 2020, 08:50:43 AM
$10K for whole roof.

I am having 3 Powerwalls installed which is required to deliver backup power including central AC. I'll soon be off the grid and non-reliant on PGE.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: GoatGeneral on September 29, 2020, 09:58:20 PM
Congrats, sounds like a great deal to get that work taken care of!
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: HMart on October 12, 2020, 03:16:13 PM
I'll post pictures of the Powerwalls once they're mounted on my garage wall.

Why did you opt for a garage install? I'm thinking outside is better to save precious garage space (half my garage is used as a gym and storage area), and we don't really have extreme weather here compared to other locales.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on October 12, 2020, 03:42:47 PM
I think batteries should be protected even in our milder climate.

Plus thievery? I dunno... feels better to put those things inside the garage.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: OCtoSV on October 13, 2020, 08:41:46 AM
Depends on city codes I think but indoor installation is strongly recommended.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on November 10, 2020, 02:10:12 PM
I noticed that my energy production had gone down after the 2 fires this summer.  I figured that the debris had settled on my panels causing less electricity generation.  So on Sunday I took a hose, and blasted my panels down.  On Monday and today, it looks like my solar is making 35% more electricity now.

If you think your solar is not performing well, you can try cleaning the dust off with a hose.


NOV 4 - solar generation 20.7
blasted panels with garden hose
NOV 9 - solar generation 27.7

Both sunny days with non interrupted electricity production curve.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on November 10, 2020, 02:50:37 PM
That is really good you did it yourself.
Try not to laugh but some people pay to do what you did.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on November 10, 2020, 04:56:02 PM
I have been on TOU-Prime because my model said it made the most sense 1 year ago. They have since changed the pricing tiers and maybe TOU-4-9PM makes more sense for solar and EV drivers.

Anyone else have some analysis?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on November 10, 2020, 05:18:49 PM
So I noticed that one of my Panasonic 330w solar panels is no longer really generating electricity. A month ago it started making 1/2 the amount of electricity as the panels next to it and then then a few weeks ago it is basically not generating any electricity (see the picture below). I contacted the solar company that installed my panels and they contacted Enphase and that Enphase will push through a firmware update then to check on the panel in 3-4 days to see how it's doing and report back. Anyone ever had any issue like this? 
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on November 10, 2020, 10:29:14 PM
I haven't had that issue.  It looks like a whack panel, but if a firm ware update works, then that would be great.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on November 10, 2020, 10:45:12 PM
I noticed that my energy production had gone down after the 2 fires this summer.  I figured that the debris had settled on my panels causing less electricity generation.  So on Sunday I took a hose, and blasted my panels down.  On Monday and today, it looks like my solar is making 35% more electricity now.

If you think your solar is not performing well, you can try cleaning the dust off with a hose.

I'm surprised that cleaning your panels with a hose made such a big difference.  I would have thought the heavy rain over the weekend would have accomplished the same thing.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on November 11, 2020, 09:56:39 AM
I read the internet cleaning advice regarding solar panels, and they said 5% is all I was going to get for cleaning the panels.  However, I'm getting more like 33% after cleaning.  Yesterday 11.10.2020 my solar generated 27.1 with a full sunny day curve.

My solar is on a single story roof that is only slightly angled, so perhaps it collects more dust.  However it is really easy to clean.

Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on November 16, 2020, 09:42:57 AM
Here is more production data for my solar panels with sunny days and no clouds.

AUG 27, 2019 ~ 56.6 kwh
AUG 27, 2020 ~ 47.5 kwh

SEP 14, 2019 ~ 50.8 kwh
SEP 15, 2020 ~ 29.7 kwh

OCT 15, 2019 ~ 36.1 kwh
OCT 15, 2020 ~ 24.3 kwh

NOV 16, 2019 ~ 23.3 kwh
NOV 15, 2020 ~ 24.8 kwh

So in AUG of 2020, there was some degradation to the system, and by SEP and OCT, it was pretty bad....
So I was on the internet looking for solutions, and finally I just hosed it down and it worked.  Proof is in the NOV numbers.


It is nice enphase has all the historical data easily accessible.

Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: akkord on November 16, 2020, 10:42:24 AM
Here is more production data for my solar panels with sunny days and no clouds.

AUG 27, 2019 ~ 56.6 kwh
AUG 27, 2020 ~ 47.5 kwh

SEP 14, 2019 ~ 50.8 kwh
SEP 15, 2020 ~ 29.7 kwh

OCT 15, 2019 ~ 36.1 kwh
OCT 15, 2020 ~ 24.3 kwh

NOV 16, 2019 ~ 23.3 kwh
NOV 15, 2020 ~ 24.8 kwh

So in AUG of 2020, there was some degradation to the system, and by SEP and OCT, it was pretty bad....
So I was on the internet looking for solutions, and finally I just hosed it down and it worked.  Proof is in the NOV numbers.


It is nice enphase has all the historical data easily accessible.

Checked a couple days on mine.

10/19/19 - 27.3
10/19/20 - 22.1

After the rain on 11/7 & 11/8 - I'm not going up on my 2nd story roof to hose them off, I'm asking for trouble.

11/11/19 - 19.5
11/11/20 - 20.1
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on November 16, 2020, 11:44:55 AM
Naturally the rain should clean off your solar, but if there is no rain between JUL ~ OCT, perhaps around AUG you should take a hose to it. 

Producing 30% less electricity for 3 months waiting for rain while fire debris collect on your panels is a unique southern CA problem.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on November 25, 2020, 09:15:04 PM
So I noticed that one of my Panasonic 330w solar panels is no longer really generating electricity. A month ago it started making 1/2 the amount of electricity as the panels next to it and then then a few weeks ago it is basically not generating any electricity (see the picture below). I contacted the solar company that installed my panels and they contacted Enphase and that Enphase will push through a firmware update then to check on the panel in 3-4 days to see how it's doing and report back. Anyone ever had any issue like this? 

The issue was with one of the Enphase optimizers so it was replaced and no everything seems to be working properly with that solar panel.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: HMart on January 11, 2021, 11:30:44 AM
It's been 3 months since we've put down our deposit with Tesla. Still no install date. Sad.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on January 11, 2021, 11:32:01 AM
It's been 3 months since we've put down our deposit with Tesla. Still no install date. Sad.

They are busy.  I assume?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Mety on January 11, 2021, 11:32:41 AM
Or maybe taunting?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on January 11, 2021, 11:36:08 AM
It's been 3 months since we've put down our deposit with Tesla. Still no install date. Sad.

Are they waiting for something?  I'd reach out to your assigned rep and find out what's going on.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on January 11, 2021, 12:02:43 PM
So I looked at the Tesla solar website. The price for the small one is around the same as last year.
I think I am ready to buy.

Reading different forums and articles. I think Tesla is the best price and most likely they will be around 10-20 plus years.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on January 11, 2021, 12:17:59 PM
Apparently their service sucks, so prep accordingly.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on January 11, 2021, 12:21:20 PM
Apparently their service sucks, so prep accordingly.

Yeah, I read about that and family member experienced it. (The commission/referral check was delayed.)
But I have to follow and save the money.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: HMart on January 11, 2021, 12:23:47 PM
It's been 3 months since we've put down our deposit with Tesla. Still no install date. Sad.

Are they waiting for something?  I'd reach out to your assigned rep and find out what's going on.

Yep, I've been emailing our rep every few weeks. It usually takes them a few days/weeks to get back. It's not fun. Last I heard, permits have been issued and an install date is pending.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on January 11, 2021, 12:40:41 PM
So I looked at the Tesla solar website. The price for the small one is around the same as last year.
I think I am ready to buy.

Reading different forums and articles. I think Tesla is the best price and most likely they will be around 10-20 plus years.

Wow... Tesla Solar is officially Prime Time!! :)

So you are doing a purchase not a rental?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on January 11, 2021, 12:55:07 PM
So I looked at the Tesla solar website. The price for the small one is around the same as last year.
I think I am ready to buy.

Reading different forums and articles. I think Tesla is the best price and most likely they will be around 10-20 plus years.

Wow... Tesla Solar is officially Prime Time!! :)

So you are doing a purchase not a rental?

The net is $6kish (so buy)
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: OCtoSV on January 11, 2021, 01:01:39 PM
Ours took 3.5 months, but that was due to them needing to subcontract out the roof decking under our tile roof.

City inspection is tomorrow, then PGE activation is 1-3 weeks.

(http://)
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on January 11, 2021, 01:04:04 PM
Ours took 3.5 months, but that was due to them needing to subcontract out the roof decking under our tile roof.

City inspection is tomorrow, then PGE activation is 1-3 weeks.

(http://)

3 power walls wow

Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: akkord on January 11, 2021, 01:24:16 PM
Ours took 3.5 months, but that was due to them needing to subcontract out the roof decking under our tile roof.

City inspection is tomorrow, then PGE activation is 1-3 weeks.

(http://)

You should be able to flip the switch to turn on solar even if you get no $ back from PGE yet from net metering.  And you have 3 powerwalls, should be storing any surplus, but during the winter you'll probably just use it all up overnight if you have excess. 
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: OCtoSV on January 12, 2021, 10:40:46 AM
When I asked Tesla told me I would get fined by PGE if I turned on the system before their hook up.

It was mildly stimulating the moment they turned off PGE and tested my house with AC on running purely off battery. While I'm no greenie I can claim I am in that I will be working my way out of the carbon hole that was dug by the manufacturing of the batteries in my EV and the PWs by charging them from solar or battery. With 3 PWs I will be 100% self sufficient in electricity production and consumption barring a massive change in the CA sunshine quotient. Tesla also does a nice job with the edge trim on the panels - much more aesthetically pleasing than other solar installations I have seen.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on January 12, 2021, 10:48:45 AM
That is cool that you got 3 power wall.

I think the price will go down. Then I will probably get one.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: OCtoSV on January 12, 2021, 10:51:18 AM
Their analysis of my total load dictated the 3 PWs. I also got the 26% fed tax credit for having it installed by 12/31. Goes down to 22% this year, still a good incentive.

We experienced a multi-day outage up here in the summer of 2019, and with the credit this works out to the same monthly as my avg PGE bill. To me it was a no-brainer.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on February 14, 2021, 06:09:30 PM
I'm curious...with all you folks that have solar with SoCal Edison what is plan that you have selected?  I have the TOUD-4-9PM plan.  I finished my first year of solar and ended up the year with about 700 kWh of excess generated power which resulted in a credit of about $35.  Should I be on the TOUD-4-9PM plan or switch to another plan?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on February 14, 2021, 06:52:42 PM
Your only choice is 4-9 or 5-8 unless you have an electric car or battery for Prime plan. So really you should base it on your usage patterns.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on February 15, 2021, 11:06:38 PM
Your only choice is 4-9 or 5-8 unless you have an electric car or battery for Prime plan. So really you should base it on your usage patterns.

I don't have an electric car but I will have a pool that'll have a pump running from 10am to 4pm daily.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on February 16, 2021, 01:17:12 PM
You need to do more analysis and have more data on your personal solar generation to make an effective decision. I actually modeled out my usage by hour and average solar generation by hour over the year between winter and summer months to figure out what is the most productive option for me.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zovall on March 22, 2021, 03:06:35 PM
Any recent experiences with Tesla Solar? What panels/inverters are they using nowadays?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Racquet on March 23, 2021, 01:12:55 PM
Is it better to have Tesla install the pest abatement or does anyone know of a third-party installer in the area? Tesla is charging $1,500 (flat fee) for the pest abatement. TIA
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: akkord on March 23, 2021, 02:03:05 PM
Is it better to have Tesla install the pest abatement or does anyone know of a third-party installer in the area? Tesla is charging $1,500 (flat fee) for the pest abatement. TIA

Are you talking about chicken wire/steel wool etc. along the sides of the panels so pigeons or other pests don't nest?  I had a quote a long time ago for I think $350 or $500, but it wasn't $1500, I think that's way too high.  This was using the same installer for my solar, I never went with it, he recommended that if problems occur he'd do it at the same price.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Racquet on March 23, 2021, 03:12:55 PM
Yes, steel/aluminum wire around the sides of the panels to keep birds and other critters from getting underneath the panels. Tesla warranty will still be valid if installed by a third party. $300-$500 is much better than the $1,500 Tesla is charging for 24 panel system. Are there local providers offering this service?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on March 23, 2021, 03:41:00 PM
TBh, 1500 sounds like a rip for chicken wire.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on March 23, 2021, 03:48:47 PM
Any recent experiences with Tesla Solar? What panels/inverters are they using nowadays?

I installed a 4kw Tesla solar system in my Vegas home last fall.  It was a good value and payback was around 5 years.  It's producing about 25-28 kw a day now.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: hurijo on March 24, 2021, 10:18:37 AM
Tesla increased their solar panel prices this morning. Used to be $2.01/W, now it's $2.21/W. Who knows if it'll be permanent or temporary. This almost makes the decision a little easier for me to go with a local installer (get slightly better equipment, warranty, communication).
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: GoatGeneral on March 31, 2021, 10:04:45 PM
Which local installer are you considering? What pricing are they at?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: hurijo on March 31, 2021, 11:19:58 PM
Solar Optimum $2.43/W
Altair Solar $2.55/W
Infinity Solar $2.60/W

Anyone have experience w/Solar Optimum? I know some people here have used Infinity.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on March 31, 2021, 11:44:49 PM
I wonder if the increase in the Tesla solar pricing had to do with the price inflation of supplies due to strong demand.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zovall on April 01, 2021, 07:11:58 AM
Solar Optimum $2.43/W
Altair Solar $2.55/W
Infinity Solar $2.60/W

Anyone have experience w/Solar Optimum? I know some people here have used Infinity.

I used Solar Optimum back in 2015 at $2.75/W and they did a fantastic job for me. My HOA demanded all sorts of things on how the conduit was to be run and they accommodated it all. My roof was steep as well and they broke many tiles and they paid a roofing contractor to replace all that. A few years later, my SolarEdge gateway stopped sending data and they came by and fixed that too.

I'd definitely use them again but I don't know if I'd pay a premium for using them.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: akkord on April 01, 2021, 08:54:01 AM
Solar Optimum $2.43/W
Altair Solar $2.55/W
Infinity Solar $2.60/W

Anyone have experience w/Solar Optimum? I know some people here have used Infinity.

Same equipment across the board for all your quotes, if not it's hard to compare pricing per watt?  If so go with the cheapest reputable company. 
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: hurijo on April 01, 2021, 01:21:46 PM
I'd say all comparable. All are with same model of Enphase microinverters. Solar Optimum and Altair are same panels (REC), while Infinity is LG (but not black-on-black color, which I kind of want. Black-on-black is $0.10/W more). Has anyone negotiated down solar price quotes? Wondering if there's room or if they're pretty firm.

Solar Optimum $2.43/W
Altair Solar $2.55/W
Infinity Solar $2.60/W

Anyone have experience w/Solar Optimum? I know some people here have used Infinity.

Same equipment across the board for all your quotes, if not it's hard to compare pricing per watt?  If so go with the cheapest reputable company.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: akkord on April 01, 2021, 01:47:10 PM
I'd say all comparable. All are with same model of Enphase microinverters. Solar Optimum and Altair are same panels (REC), while Infinity is LG (but not black-on-black color, which I kind of want. Black-on-black is $0.10/W more). Has anyone negotiated down solar price quotes? Wondering if there's room or if they're pretty firm.

Solar Optimum $2.43/W
Altair Solar $2.55/W
Infinity Solar $2.60/W

Anyone have experience w/Solar Optimum? I know some people here have used Infinity.

Same equipment across the board for all your quotes, if not it's hard to compare pricing per watt?  If so go with the cheapest reputable company.

Based on my research a couple years ago LG and Panasonic were the best rated panels.  I got Panasonic from Infinity Solar. 
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: hurijo on April 01, 2021, 01:56:04 PM
Yup, but earlier this year Panasonic announced they're exiting the solar panel manufacturing business. Still selling them under Panasonic name, but outsourcing manufacturing. Their new Evervolt line of panels look identical to the newest REC Alpha panels (specs, dimensions, appearance) and even location of manufacture the same (Singapore - according to Energysage). Which makes me believe they're just rebranded REC panels.

I'd say all comparable. All are with same model of Enphase microinverters. Solar Optimum and Altair are same panels (REC), while Infinity is LG (but not black-on-black color, which I kind of want. Black-on-black is $0.10/W more). Has anyone negotiated down solar price quotes? Wondering if there's room or if they're pretty firm.

Solar Optimum $2.43/W
Altair Solar $2.55/W
Infinity Solar $2.60/W

Anyone have experience w/Solar Optimum? I know some people here have used Infinity.

Same equipment across the board for all your quotes, if not it's hard to compare pricing per watt?  If so go with the cheapest reputable company.

Based on my research a couple years ago LG and Panasonic were the best rated panels.  I got Panasonic from Infinity Solar.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: akkord on April 01, 2021, 05:02:00 PM
Yup, but earlier this year Panasonic announced they're exiting the solar panel manufacturing business. Still selling them under Panasonic name, but outsourcing manufacturing. Their new Evervolt line of panels look identical to the newest REC Alpha panels (specs, dimensions, appearance) and even location of manufacture the same (Singapore - according to Energysage). Which makes me believe they're just rebranded REC panels.

I'd say all comparable. All are with same model of Enphase microinverters. Solar Optimum and Altair are same panels (REC), while Infinity is LG (but not black-on-black color, which I kind of want. Black-on-black is $0.10/W more). Has anyone negotiated down solar price quotes? Wondering if there's room or if they're pretty firm.

Solar Optimum $2.43/W
Altair Solar $2.55/W
Infinity Solar $2.60/W

Anyone have experience w/Solar Optimum? I know some people here have used Infinity.

Same equipment across the board for all your quotes, if not it's hard to compare pricing per watt?  If so go with the cheapest reputable company.

Based on my research a couple years ago LG and Panasonic were the best rated panels.  I got Panasonic from Infinity Solar.

If all is equal, go with the cheapest quote is what I would do.  Zovall used them and liked them, so that's one good reference.  I know multiple with Infinity Solar and no issues, but they are quoting higher so doesn't make sense right now.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on April 28, 2021, 09:34:46 AM
You're right.
$1.82 was the lowest last year.
$1.45 now from TESLA.

What a massive drop! Tesla is going to corner the solar market.

Back in JUN of 2020 TESLA solar lowered their prices per above.
Today I read Elon screwed up on the solar pricing by 70%.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/elon-musk-said-tesla-made-100153507.html

So for all of you that got in on the TESLA deal mid 2020, and actually got your solar installed, you made money off ELON!
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cornflakes on May 10, 2021, 02:32:09 PM
makes sense...

who installs solar roof? - people that has older roof, may be disintegrating
What do they more likely to have? - years old technology and material underneath, which might be weak/rotting
What it means for Tesla? - higher costs

e.g. GPN and OH buyers are not primary customers of Tesla solar roof.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on July 29, 2021, 12:29:13 PM
I noticed that my energy production had gone down after the 2 fires this summer.  I figured that the debris had settled on my panels causing less electricity generation.  So on Sunday I took a hose, and blasted my panels down.  On Monday and today, it looks like my solar is making 35% more electricity now.

If you think your solar is not performing well, you can try cleaning the dust off with a hose.


NOV 4 - solar generation 20.7
blasted panels with garden hose
NOV 9 - solar generation 27.7

Both sunny days with non interrupted electricity production curve.


Last week I rinsed off my solar panels with a garden hose.


Results:
JUL 20, 2021 - solar generation 48.7
JUL 28, 2021 - solar generation 57.2


Another massive increase in solar generation. 
We really need some big rains to help clean these panels.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: hurijo on July 29, 2021, 01:02:04 PM
I noticed that my energy production had gone down after the 2 fires this summer.  I figured that the debris had settled on my panels causing less electricity generation.  So on Sunday I took a hose, and blasted my panels down.  On Monday and today, it looks like my solar is making 35% more electricity now.

If you think your solar is not performing well, you can try cleaning the dust off with a hose.


NOV 4 - solar generation 20.7
blasted panels with garden hose
NOV 9 - solar generation 27.7

Both sunny days with non interrupted electricity production curve.


Last week I rinsed off my solar panels with a garden hose.


Results:
JUL 20, 2021 - solar generation 48.7
JUL 28, 2021 - solar generation 57.2


Another massive increase in solar generation. 
We really need some big rains to help clean these panels.

What's your system size?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on July 29, 2021, 01:17:04 PM
330X30 = 9900
On a flattish single story roof.  slightly angled the wrong way...not SE.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: aquabliss on August 20, 2021, 07:18:38 PM
Just realized that Tesla Solar Panel purchase now requires purchase of (minimum) 1 Powerwall as well (sigh). 

Anyone have a good experience with any local providers lately?  Not sure if the Powerwall is worth it, seems like we rarely have any brown/blackouts here.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on August 20, 2021, 07:54:40 PM
Just realized that Tesla Solar Panel purchase now requires purchase of (minimum) 1 Powerwall as well (sigh). 

Anyone have a good experience with any local providers lately?  Not sure if the Powerwall is worth it, seems like we rarely have any brown/blackouts here.

Sounds expensive af with the battery.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: USCTrojanCPA on August 20, 2021, 09:35:22 PM
Just realized that Tesla Solar Panel purchase now requires purchase of (minimum) 1 Powerwall as well (sigh). 

Anyone have a good experience with any local providers lately?  Not sure if the Powerwall is worth it, seems like we rarely have any brown/blackouts here.

Wow, I'm glad I got the solar panels for my Vegas home last fall.  No way would I buy a powerball with the solar.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: JadedOne on August 27, 2021, 07:18:50 AM
Just realized that Tesla Solar Panel purchase now requires purchase of (minimum) 1 Powerwall as well (sigh). 

Anyone have a good experience with any local providers lately?  Not sure if the Powerwall is worth it, seems like we rarely have any brown/blackouts here.

I'm happy that they require a powerwall now, personally. I wanted to get one so I can optimize my usage (I'll probably generate more than I need during the day and want to bank it for use at night versus paying SCE). This change might help me get my system sooner, whenever I decide to order.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on August 27, 2021, 07:38:20 AM
Just realized that Tesla Solar Panel purchase now requires purchase of (minimum) 1 Powerwall as well (sigh). 

Anyone have a good experience with any local providers lately?  Not sure if the Powerwall is worth it, seems like we rarely have any brown/blackouts here.

I'm happy that they require a powerwall now, personally. I wanted to get one so I can optimize my usage (I'll probably generate more than I need during the day and want to bank it for use at night versus paying SCE). This change might help me get my system sooner, whenever I decide to order.

You might need multiple powerwalls to stay off the grid.
Other companies dont require the battery option.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on August 27, 2021, 09:03:49 AM
Just realized that Tesla Solar Panel purchase now requires purchase of (minimum) 1 Powerwall as well (sigh). 

Anyone have a good experience with any local providers lately?  Not sure if the Powerwall is worth it, seems like we rarely have any brown/blackouts here.

I'm happy that they require a powerwall now, personally. I wanted to get one so I can optimize my usage (I'll probably generate more than I need during the day and want to bank it for use at night versus paying SCE). This change might help me get my system sooner, whenever I decide to order.

The economics of a Powerwall hardly makes sense unless you have frequent power outages. I have run the numbers every which way and if you think you can arbitrage the electricity prices it will take like 20 years to breakeven. You're much better off being on a TOU plan and generating electricity credits and just use electricity as you please.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: The California Court Company on August 27, 2021, 09:20:40 AM
Better yet, buy the electric version of Ford F-150 that can power your house. it is like power wall on the go, and imagine all the possibilities.

Just realized that Tesla Solar Panel purchase now requires purchase of (minimum) 1 Powerwall as well (sigh). 

Anyone have a good experience with any local providers lately?  Not sure if the Powerwall is worth it, seems like we rarely have any brown/blackouts here.

I'm happy that they require a powerwall now, personally. I wanted to get one so I can optimize my usage (I'll probably generate more than I need during the day and want to bank it for use at night versus paying SCE). This change might help me get my system sooner, whenever I decide to order.

The economics of a Powerwall hardly makes sense unless you have frequent power outages. I have run the numbers every which way and if you think you can arbitrage the electricity prices it will take like 20 years to breakeven. You're much better off being on a TOU plan and generating electricity credits and just use electricity as you please.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on August 27, 2021, 09:29:10 AM
I finally put $100 deposit toward a "Y" last week.
Estimated delivery JAN...

Is that 2023?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on August 27, 2021, 10:34:57 AM
I finally put $100 deposit toward a "Y" last week.
Estimated delivery JAN...

Is that 2023?

I just ordered one about 3 weeks ago. I sprung for the Performance version because I didn't want to wait.

Also I can sell one of my 3 year old Teslas for the SAME as what I paid for it. This used car market is ridiculous. Cars are an appreciating asset now haha!
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: OCtoSV on August 27, 2021, 11:17:24 AM
I finally put $100 deposit toward a "Y" last week.
Estimated delivery JAN...

Is that 2023?

I just ordered one about 3 weeks ago. I sprung for the Performance version because I didn't want to wait.

Also I can sell one of my 3 year old Teslas for the SAME as what I paid for it. This used car market is ridiculous. Cars are an appreciating asset now haha!
Wow - I just checked a used 2020 3 like mine on the Tesla used website and it's $13K more than I paid last year!
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on August 27, 2021, 11:33:59 AM
Just realized that Tesla Solar Panel purchase now requires purchase of (minimum) 1 Powerwall as well (sigh). 

Anyone have a good experience with any local providers lately?  Not sure if the Powerwall is worth it, seems like we rarely have any brown/blackouts here.

I'm happy that they require a powerwall now, personally. I wanted to get one so I can optimize my usage (I'll probably generate more than I need during the day and want to bank it for use at night versus paying SCE). This change might help me get my system sooner, whenever I decide to order.

The economics of a Powerwall hardly makes sense unless you have frequent power outages. I have run the numbers every which way and if you think you can arbitrage the electricity prices it will take like 20 years to breakeven. You're much better off being on a TOU plan and generating electricity credits and just use electricity as you please.

Yeah, the required powerwall is basically a price increase.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: OCtoSV on August 27, 2021, 02:46:43 PM
My electrician told me the 8kW/3 PW system I bought from Tesla is almost 2X now what I paid last year. I already banked the 26% fed tax credit, and I charge my M3 with those subsidized fixed cost electrons every night. Plus I get a big true-up twice a year for the gobs of kW I send back to the grid every day.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: fatduck on August 27, 2021, 02:53:04 PM
I finally put $100 deposit toward a "Y" last week.
Estimated delivery JAN...

Is that 2023?

I just ordered one about 3 weeks ago. I sprung for the Performance version because I didn't want to wait.

Also I can sell one of my 3 year old Teslas for the SAME as what I paid for it. This used car market is ridiculous. Cars are an appreciating asset now haha!
Wow - I just checked a used 2020 3 like mine on the Tesla used website and it's $13K more than I paid last year!
did you buy FSD?  tesla adds FSD to all their used inventory so that jacks up the price.  but in general yea used car prices are ludicrous right now.

edit: wow never mind, i hadn't looked recently.  low-mileage 2021 model Ys with no FSD on autotrader are like $70k right now.  maybe i should flip mine...
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Cares on August 27, 2021, 03:22:52 PM
I paid $55k for my 3. $10k tax credit so $45k. I'm getting $40-42k from 3rd parties like Shift and CarMax. A laughable $31k from Tesla. Private party offers around $45-46k.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: fatduck on August 27, 2021, 03:38:46 PM
I don't really want to deal with the hassle of a private sale, but I'm curious what carmax will pay. I like the car but I'm not gonna turn down $10k profit.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvine_is_awesome on September 13, 2021, 04:05:32 PM
Now they are giving an option to buy without a powerwall.

I am planning on getting solar.
I have quotes from solar optimum, infinity solar which are pretty comparable to Tesla. Tesla is the cheapest. what is the advantage of getting tesla? any recommendations.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: irvinehomeowner on September 13, 2021, 04:18:17 PM
Tesla discontinues solar subscription?

https://electrek.co/2021/09/10/tesla-tsla-discontinues-solar-subscription-service/
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on September 13, 2021, 04:45:30 PM
Now they are giving an option to buy without a powerwall.

I am planning on getting solar.
I have quotes from solar optimum, infinity solar which are pretty comparable to Tesla. Tesla is the cheapest. what is the advantage of getting tesla? any recommendations.

Thanks for the heads up.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zovall on September 13, 2021, 04:47:15 PM
Now they are giving an option to buy without a powerwall.

I am planning on getting solar.
I have quotes from solar optimum, infinity solar which are pretty comparable to Tesla. Tesla is the cheapest. what is the advantage of getting tesla? any recommendations.

What quotes did you get from Solar Optimum and Infinity Solar?
The Tesla installs that I've seen lately look really clean and it is the same app that it used for the car so that is kinda nice too.
Tesla also has their Powerwalls if you wanted that (and I don't think you can get it from someone else right?)
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: fatduck on September 13, 2021, 04:51:05 PM
I have heard that Tesla solar, like most Tesla products, is great as long as you never need any kind of customer service
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: akkord on September 13, 2021, 07:54:09 PM
Now they are giving an option to buy without a powerwall.

I am planning on getting solar.
I have quotes from solar optimum, infinity solar which are pretty comparable to Tesla. Tesla is the cheapest. what is the advantage of getting tesla? any recommendations.

What quotes did you get from Solar Optimum and Infinity Solar?
The Tesla installs that I've seen lately look really clean and it is the same app that it used for the car so that is kinda nice too.
Tesla also has their Powerwalls if you wanted that (and I don't think you can get it from someone else right?)

You can get powerwalls from solar installers, pretty sure Tim at Infinity has them, but the costs are too high, break even is too long. 
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: Irvine_is_awesome on September 13, 2021, 08:33:27 PM
Quotes i am getting  for approx 8.14kw system are
Infinity solar - 22K for LG 440W panels 18 Panels
Solar optimum  21k for Panasonic panels 370W 22 panels
Tesla 20k for 8.5Kw system 425W panel

Tesla is the cheapest out of all but i worry about their customer service and subcontracting thier installation.

Costwise its not a huge difference between the 3
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: fatduck on September 13, 2021, 10:49:38 PM
Go read some of the stories on TMC about people with year old solar installs where Tesla still hasn't submitted paperwork to the utility and they can't get ahold of anyone at Tesla to do anything about it. I don't think the risk is worth saving $1-2k personally.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: hurijo on September 13, 2021, 11:18:53 PM
I agree that at that price difference, it's not worth the risk going with Tesla. Depending on how you value your time, you'll have to act as your own project manager. There's a chance your install may go smoothly and on time, but the chances of that NOT happening is higher with Tesla imho. Communication is horrible and after-install support is even worse.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on September 13, 2021, 11:48:51 PM
I submitted 2 tickets via the Tesla solar app when I noticed that there was no solar power generated for over half the day.  I didn't receive any confirmation of the ticket or a response.  In the 2nd ticket, I even wrote, "Does anyone even read this????".  No response.  This was a few months ago. 
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: hurijo on September 14, 2021, 08:42:18 AM
I submitted 2 tickets via the Tesla solar app when I noticed that there was no solar power generated for over half the day.  I didn't receive any confirmation of the ticket or a response.  In the 2nd ticket, I even wrote, "Does anyone even read this????".  No response.  This was a few months ago.

What eventually happened with your issue?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on September 14, 2021, 08:45:06 AM
I submitted 2 tickets via the Tesla solar app when I noticed that there was no solar power generated for over half the day.  I didn't receive any confirmation of the ticket or a response.  In the 2nd ticket, I even wrote, "Does anyone even read this????".  No response.  This was a few months ago.

What eventually happened with your issue?

Resolved itself.  My generation shows a few hours at 0 for a couple days.  I'm not sure if it's the app or if the generation was really 0.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on September 14, 2021, 09:56:39 AM
I agree that at that price difference, it's not worth the risk going with Tesla. Depending on how you value your time, you'll have to act as your own project manager. There's a chance your install may go smoothly and on time, but the chances of that NOT happening is higher with Tesla imho. Communication is horrible and after-install support is even worse.

It happens and its not always Tesla’s fault. I know someone that the solar panels were installed but they were waiting for someone from the City of LA to approve it/give the okay.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: akkord on September 15, 2021, 06:19:25 AM
I agree that at that price difference, it's not worth the risk going with Tesla. Depending on how you value your time, you'll have to act as your own project manager. There's a chance your install may go smoothly and on time, but the chances of that NOT happening is higher with Tesla imho. Communication is horrible and after-install support is even worse.

It happens and its not always Tesla’s fault. I know someone that the solar panels were installed but they were waiting for someone from the City of LA to approve it/give the okay.

Normally it's HOA approval, permits, install, inspection, SCE confirmation changing to TOU/net metering.  For me the hardest part was getting the HOA approvals, my installer handled everything else.  Note you can turn it on after inspection and prior to SCE confirmation - you get generate solar for usage, but you don't get the net metering until SCE gives you the thumbs up.  Heard of local inspection horror stories too, so can happen with any installer, but I hear more about Tesla CS sucking.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on September 15, 2021, 07:29:38 AM
I agree that at that price difference, it's not worth the risk going with Tesla. Depending on how you value your time, you'll have to act as your own project manager. There's a chance your install may go smoothly and on time, but the chances of that NOT happening is higher with Tesla imho. Communication is horrible and after-install support is even worse.

It happens and its not always Tesla’s fault. I know someone that the solar panels were installed but they were waiting for someone from the City of LA to approve it/give the okay.

(Pre covid) They waited around a month or more for the approval from the city and dwp. (Inter agency back and forth. red tape? idk) From what I was told, Tesla was contacting the local agencies to speed the approval process.

You also have to predict or consider how long the solar company will be around for potential service or warranty in the future. Tesla would most likely be around in the future.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: akkord on September 15, 2021, 07:45:35 AM
I agree that at that price difference, it's not worth the risk going with Tesla. Depending on how you value your time, you'll have to act as your own project manager. There's a chance your install may go smoothly and on time, but the chances of that NOT happening is higher with Tesla imho. Communication is horrible and after-install support is even worse.

It happens and its not always Tesla’s fault. I know someone that the solar panels were installed but they were waiting for someone from the City of LA to approve it/give the okay.

(Pre covid) They waited around a month or more for the approval from the city and dwp. (Inter agency back and forth. red tape? idk) From what I was told, Tesla was contacting the local agencies to speed the approval process.

You also have to predict or consider how long the solar company will be around for potential service or warranty in the future. Tesla would most likely be around in the future.

About a month is right depending on their workload, nothing wrong with that.  Tesla may be around, but if you can't talk to anyone on their CS side, it makes no difference as noted by woodburyowner.  What if his issue didn't resolve itself on his system.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on September 15, 2021, 07:55:25 AM
I had to call Tesla for my family member because they did not get the referral bonus. They eventually got the referral bonus few weeks after.

I thought the process would be better. I simply told them the concern regarding the referral and they fixed it.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: OCtoSV on September 15, 2021, 09:05:01 AM
Our Tesla Solar + Powerwall was incredibly clean and efficient. We lucked out living in a city where they have a unionized staff of 29 building inspectors that do their job extremely well and efficiently. We've had it for 9 months and zero issues. I love charging my M3 with my own stored electrons at night. W/O PW you still have to pay to charge at night. And the 26% fed tax credit make sit a no-brainer. Up here having resilience against PGE is highly value added as well, so it was likely the highest value investment I could have made for my property.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: fatduck on September 15, 2021, 09:06:22 AM
Tesla still being around doesn't mean Tesla Solar will still be around. Solar has been a pretty bad line of business for them generally. It's only profitable because of powerwall sales, which is why they switched to requiring both. They only changed course on that because powerwall use chips that they need for cars right now. I would bet that it's not long before Tesla spins off energy generation and focuses only on storage.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on September 15, 2021, 11:05:05 AM
W/O PW you still have to pay to charge at night.

CA has Net Metering.  What's the benefit of a PW in this situation?
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on September 15, 2021, 12:56:42 PM
Use the stored energy in battery to run stuff from 4-9pm while using the regular grid during the cheaper times.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: akkord on September 15, 2021, 08:51:56 PM
Pretty sure OCtoSV is up north and they may have blackouts/brownouts so a powerwall makes sense.  Down here we don't get hit with that much and between me and Cares, the #'s don't make sense to get a powerwall unless you have OCtoSV's use case or something else you need to store power for, growing weed, mining etherium/bitcoin, whatever it might be.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: woodburyowner on September 16, 2021, 09:12:32 AM
Use the stored energy in battery to run stuff from 4-9pm while using the regular grid during the cheaper times.

So can you set the PW to store electricity only during off peak time and then during peak time, sell the energy to the grid at the higher rate?     
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: OCtoSV on September 16, 2021, 11:08:04 AM
Use the stored energy in battery to run stuff from 4-9pm while using the regular grid during the cheaper times.
I never use the grid - Solar during the day, and PW take over as usage becomes > solar generation. During the day I sent most of the Solar back to the grid once hte PW is regenerated. My first PGE "true-up" is next Feb, and I think if I read the arcane 10 page statement correctly I am due ~$500 so far.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: fatduck on September 16, 2021, 11:42:25 AM
Use the stored energy in battery to run stuff from 4-9pm while using the regular grid during the cheaper times.

So can you set the PW to store electricity only during off peak time and then during peak time, sell the energy to the grid at the higher rate?   
yes

there are two ways to "sell" energy back to the grid in CA. one way is you get storage credits with your provider that are used to deduct against your metered usage. so if you "sell" energy during peak times, and use grid supply during non peak times, you come out ahead.

at end of year, any excess credits are liquidated at wholesale prices. so if you rely entirely on solar and PW and never use your banked credits you are getting a lower rate for your excess production. but you may value the energy independence more highly.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: zubs on September 16, 2021, 12:02:27 PM
Apparently batteries can be run on a timer.
I do not have batteries for my solar, but was told this by the salesman.
I took my batteries budget and added more panels.


Why?....batteries degrade faster than solar panels.
I think by year 10 you are down to 70% charge....but who knows....
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: fatduck on September 16, 2021, 12:35:54 PM
storage is so expensive per kwh that I really doubt it makes economic sense to get batteries just to arbitrage peak/off peak rates especially since the sun is out during much of the peak time.

it's more for people who want to be self sufficient and have protection during outages
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: OCtoSV on September 17, 2021, 07:09:29 AM
storage is so expensive per kwh that I really doubt it makes economic sense to get batteries just to arbitrage peak/off peak rates especially since the sun is out during much of the peak time.

it's more for people who want to be self sufficient and have protection during outages

Also to fix energy costs. Avg PGE bill is almost $200 and rising rapidly. Couple that with stressed generation and transmission capability and fire related blackouts (even though my neighborhood has buried utilities) and the 26% federal subsidy and it just made too much sense.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: daedalus on October 10, 2021, 10:23:17 PM
The TOU plans at SCE certainly push the powerwall calculus closer to acceptance.  They rape you on electricity costs right when solar generation falls off a cliff so having a reservoir to balance it all out takes the edge off.  The convenience of staying powered during blackouts and not having to reset all the clocks sells it a bit more. 

Financing @ 2.99% right now...with a 10 year payoff, my monthly bill would be about the same as my current electric bill (not counting the min SCE monthly charges), so not quite at breakeven, but doesn't include the tax rebate, and it would also insulate me from future price hikes.

Tax rebate not changing through 2022.  I'm hoping the Powerwall V3 comes out in time to get the rebate, and without any price increases.  If that pans out, I'll be in.
Title: Re: Tesla Solar Panels Price Cut
Post by: eyephone on October 11, 2021, 08:28:01 AM
It sucks the switch to the new tou.
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