Veterans Cemetery coming to Irvine

[eatthis]

Goes back to the fundamental difference in viewing the dead and cemetery.  Also a difference of cultural opinion as to veterans.

Case in point. Some just want to keep pushing that narrative.

 

[Tarmacpro]

The inmates housed at the facility are considered to be a low security risk and most are in jail for crimes such as driving under the influence, minor drug possession, burglary, failure to pay child support, and or prostitution. Inmates and ICE detainees who have committed violent crimes, sex crimes or mayhem are not eligible for transfer to the facility

Before I purchased the house, I noticed there is a jail there.  however after research with low level security, i was okay with it.

driving under the influence - I am okay with this because there are drunk and drive everywhere
minor drug possession - I dont really understand what is minor drug possession. 
burglary - I dont like it, but i am okay with this.
failure to pay child support - i am okay with this.
prostitution - SIGN ME UP.  i want to be the NEXT deuce bigalow

So you are okay with an inmate who might possibly escape from jail or released, get drunk/high and drive around your neighborhood, break into your house and steal your stuff, beat up your kids, and solicit your neighbors for sex rather than living next to a Veterans Cemetery?!  Am I missing something here?  These are veterans that served the country you live in now.

 

[eatthis]

1)  Traffic is a concern but environmental studies will be done to asses that.  Building a school will also have significant traffic concerns. 

Why was the cemetery approved without this basic study done first? Something seriously shady going on. To compare a traffic from a high school to a cemetery that will have 8000+ burials per year is disingenuous. The degree of impact is not even close.

2)  We talked about the toxicity issue...no more toxic than what's already there.

Says who? Just because you keep repeating it here doesn't make it true. Read up on the study about the dead poisoning the living through bodies buried in the cemetery. Can't deny science.

3)  Why is its proximity to the high school a concern?  There is literally a jail a mile down the street from the HS and that wasn't a concern.

I don't know why you keep bring up the jail. Even if it is a concern it's irrelevant to this conversation. Jail keeps the prisoners in. Cemetery is wide open.

4)  The state will be footing the bill.

Our state is dead broke. Endowment are needed to cover operations and burial cost. In 2004, the state told Northern California Veterans' cemetery they had no money to water the lawn. Local residents had to scramble to come up with the money.

All those are considerations but the overwhelmimg consideration are home values and culture concerns.

You write off every concern and keep coming back to your convenient narrative.

 

[yaliu07]

2)  We talked about the toxicity issue...no more toxic than what's already there.

Says who? Just because you keep repeating it here doesn't make it true. Read up on the study about the dead poisoning the living through bodies buried in the cemetery. Can't deny science.

do you have any link to "this science".  My son eventually will go to PS HS.  i am concern will this cause sickness or illness.

4)  The state will be footing the bill.

Our state is dead broke. Endowment are needed to cover operations and burial cost. In 2004, the state told Northern California Veterans' cemetery they had no money to water the lawn. Local residents had to scramble to come up with the money.

do you have link?  i like to read it.

 

[BruinRevolution]

I just signed up for this website in April and keep coming back because yaliu brings the jokes like Game of Thrones brings agony to its viewers.

That quote about the hooker action was classic.  >

The inmates housed at the facility are considered to be a low security risk and most are in jail for crimes such as driving under the influence, minor drug possession, burglary, failure to pay child support, and or prostitution. Inmates and ICE detainees who have committed violent crimes, sex crimes or mayhem are not eligible for transfer to the facility

Before I purchased the house, I noticed there is a jail there.  however after research with low level security, i was okay with it.

driving under the influence - I am okay with this because there are drunk and drive everywhere
minor drug possession - I dont really understand what is minor drug possession. 
burglary - I dont like it, but i am okay with this.
failure to pay child support - i am okay with this.
prostitution - SIGN ME UP.  i want to be the NEXT deuce bigalow

 

[eyephone]

You can follow Yaliu on twitter at ____ 

I just signed up for this website in April and keep coming back because yaliu brings the jokes like Game of Thrones brings agony to its viewers.

That quote about the hooker action was classic.  >

The inmates housed at the facility are considered to be a low security risk and most are in jail for crimes such as driving under the influence, minor drug possession, burglary, failure to pay child support, and or prostitution. Inmates and ICE detainees who have committed violent crimes, sex crimes or mayhem are not eligible for transfer to the facility

Before I purchased the house, I noticed there is a jail there.  however after research with low level security, i was okay with it.

driving under the influence - I am okay with this because there are drunk and drive everywhere
minor drug possession - I dont really understand what is minor drug possession. 
burglary - I dont like it, but i am okay with this.
failure to pay child support - i am okay with this.
prostitution - SIGN ME UP.  i want to be the NEXT deuce bigalow

 

[eatthis]

These are veterans that served the country you live in now.

There goes the patriotism card. Where does it stop?

Why don't you bury veterans in your front yard so you can show respect every day? These are veterans that served the country you live in now.

Why don't you let the numerous homeless veterans who suffer from PTSD and can't hold a job come live in your home? These are veterans that served the country you live in now.

Why don't you donate all of your time and money to the vets? These are veterans that served the country you live in now.

The fact is, there's a limit with everything, including the veterans. Respecting the veterans does not mean they should get their way, no matter the impact on the residents.

 

[eatthis]

2)  We talked about the toxicity issue...no more toxic than what's already there.

Says who? Just because you keep repeating it here doesn't make it true. Read up on the study about the dead poisoning the living through bodies buried in the cemetery. Can't deny science.

do you have any link to "this science".  My son eventually will go to PS HS.  i am concern will this cause sickness or illness.

4)  The state will be footing the bill.

Our state is dead broke. Endowment are needed to cover operations and burial cost. In 2004, the state told Northern California Veterans' cemetery they had no money to water the lawn. Local residents had to scramble to come up with the money.

do you have link?  i like to read it.

"Silent toxins are seeping out of graveyards around Northern Ireland.And they have been for decades. The problem is the formaldehyde and other chemicals which are used in embalming the dead. Environmental Agency guidance suggests that it takes up to 10 years for this dangerous chemical to dissipate, and more of it goes into the ground every day."http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...yards-pose-threat-to-the-living-31211012.html

"There are three state cemeteries open or in the works all in Northern and Central California, including Fort Ord cemetery in Monterey that has been slow to launch because of a requirement to set up an endowment to cover operations and burials costs."http://www.ocregister.com/articles/cemetery-605327-city-park.html

 

[jmoney74]

The inmates housed at the facility are considered to be a low security risk and most are in jail for crimes such as driving under the influence, minor drug possession, burglary, failure to pay child support, and or prostitution. Inmates and ICE detainees who have committed violent crimes, sex crimes or mayhem are not eligible for transfer to the facility

Before I purchased the house, I noticed there is a jail there.  however after research with low level security, i was okay with it.

driving under the influence - I am okay with this because there are drunk and drive everywhere
minor drug possession - I dont really understand what is minor drug possession. 
burglary - I dont like it, but i am okay with this.
failure to pay child support - i am okay with this.
prostitution - SIGN ME UP.  i want to be the NEXT deuce bigalow

And yet the memorial is a grave concern with respect to the school?

I understand the anti-cemetery crowd but don't patronize me with side arguments.  It's about cultural differences and home values...simple as that.

More than that for me. The traffic. The view for our kids when they are in school.

Im actually okay witha cemetery but would like to relocate it within GP. That would affect future homesites though.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

I will try this again:

1)  Traffic:

You keep bringing up the 8000+ burial a year as some crazy traffic flow.  Yet, any sort of development in the area will bring substantially more traffic on Irvine. 

8000 burial comes out to about 25 burials a day..at about 20 cars per burial, that's 500 car per day or 3500 cars per week.  There is also some question as to how much of that traffic is going to flow through Sand Canyon and Irvine considering Sand Canyon is much more developed and than Bake or Alton.

The high school is estimated to have 2500 students...assuming one car per two students, that's 1,250 cars per day or 7,250 cars per week (5 school days).  While there is school 9 months out of the year, we have haven't even counted things like staff traffic, sports meets, football games, music/art performance, etc.  Most of that traffic, conversely, is going to come down on Irvine from Sand Canyon 

If you are going to get significantly more than 500 cars a day if you put some sort of retail center in that area. 

Not to mention, there is going to be another 8000 living units to be develop in that area.

2)  Toxicity

Again...you put not context to this issue.  Even assuming the cemetery poses an environment risk of some sort, it is on top of a former superfund site that is still be monitored by the EPA and US Navy.  There is a known TCE issue underneath the base.  TCE is significantly more hazardous to your health. 

Columbus Grove/Square are located on top of the former Tustin Air Base and the buyers there receive a written disclosure not to eat any fruits or vegetable grown on the land.  El Toro was a significantly toxic environment than Tustin Air Base.

This argument is like telling people living in Fukashima they shouldn't use microwaves because they may pose a cancer risk.

3)  What does the openness of a cemetery have to do with it?  The issue wasn't raise by me, anti-cemetery group has raise the proximity of the cemetery to the HS as a concern.  I was just asking why that was a concern while there is no concern about the existence of a jail just a mile away.  The proposed K-8 school is even closer to the jail.

4)  The money will or will not be there.  State and Federal government set aside specific money for veterans affair, including the building of memorial.  That issue is irrelevant whether of the cemetery is built in Irvine or elsewhere in California.

I don't understand your citation...the lack of endowment means that the cemetery/memorial won't be built, not that it is not going to maintained.  In fact, that's what the entire article you cited talked about. 

Also, you completely mischaracterized the watering issue in Northern California Veteran's Cemetery.  The money was privately raised through donations and volunteer, not forced costs on locals.

In the summer of 2004, North State veterans received the news that there would be no funds available to water the lawns of the Northern California Veterans? Cemetery. After years of work to make the cemetery a reality, veterans saw their dream fade before their eyes?just months before the scheduled opening. Shasta Regional Community Foundation, North State Veterans, Shasta County and other volunteers joined together to start the Veterans Cemetery Endowment Fund. The goal: raise $200,000 by Cemetery Dedication Day. The North State community rallied around the cause. Children donated pennies. College students held a car wash. Clubs of all kinds organized events and raised funds. More than 600 groups and individuals made contributions in memory of their loved ones who served in the military. With one day to spare, the goal was reached on November 10, 2005. The designated endowment fund will grow in perpetuity, ensuring that North State veterans will have a dignified resting place forever.

http://www.shastarcf.org/stories/keeping-northern-california-veterans-cemetery-green#.VYAyclVViko

5)  I am not pushing a narrative...it's a narrative that already exists and actually pushed by the anti-cemetery group. 

But for a group of Asian residents that live near Irvine?s Great Park, the image is appalling ? any cemetery would violate a strong cultural taboo of living near the dead.

Now, even as the state Department of Veterans Affairs prepares to request federal funds to build the cemetery, residents in the neighborhood ? including people who aren?t worried about the bad feng shui ? are pushing city officials and others to make sure it?s built somewhere else. Property values, many say, will be damaged.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/cemetery-664876-park-veterans.html

All these "side arguments" are just cause a bunch of eyerolls.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

The inmates housed at the facility are considered to be a low security risk and most are in jail for crimes such as driving under the influence, minor drug possession, burglary, failure to pay child support, and or prostitution. Inmates and ICE detainees who have committed violent crimes, sex crimes or mayhem are not eligible for transfer to the facility

Before I purchased the house, I noticed there is a jail there.  however after research with low level security, i was okay with it.

driving under the influence - I am okay with this because there are drunk and drive everywhere
minor drug possession - I dont really understand what is minor drug possession. 
burglary - I dont like it, but i am okay with this.
failure to pay child support - i am okay with this.
prostitution - SIGN ME UP.  i want to be the NEXT deuce bigalow

And yet the memorial is a grave concern with respect to the school?

I understand the anti-cemetery crowd but don't patronize me with side arguments.  It's about cultural differences and home values...simple as that.

More than that for me. The traffic. The view for our kids when they are in school.

Im actually okay witha cemetery but would like to relocate it within GP. That would affect future homesites though.

What exactly do you think think your kids are going to see at school?  It's not like they're lining up tombstones to the edge of the memorial...there is going to be a lot of street cover (usually trees)

 

[Our Gang]

4)  The state will be footing the bill.

Our state is dead broke. Endowment are needed to cover operations and burial cost. In 2004, the state told Northern California Veterans' cemetery they had no money to water the lawn. Local residents had to scramble to come up with the money.

State now running a surplus from cap-and-trade money. CCCVC issues will not repeat at OCVMP, DGS has learned and corrected. Construction covered by VA Grant program and built to VA standards (go look at Miramar), many Veteran Cemeteries in USA in process. O&M from state and Foundation funds. Irvine 'Great Park' gets a centerpiece at no cost to Irvine.

Pay attention, you'll learn something.

 

[bones]

4)  The state will be footing the bill.

Our state is dead broke. Endowment are needed to cover operations and burial cost. In 2004, the state told Northern California Veterans' cemetery they had no money to water the lawn. Local residents had to scramble to come up with the money.

State now running a surplus from cap-and-trade money. CCCVC issues will not repeat at OCVMP, DGS has learned and corrected. Construction covered by VA Grant program and built to VA standards (go look at Miramar), many Veteran Cemeteries in USA in process. O&M from state and Foundation funds. Irvine 'Great Park' gets a centerpiece at no cost to Irvine.

Pay attention, you'll learn something.

I'm trying to pay attn but who is saying what here?

 

[Our Gang]

The inmates housed at the facility are considered to be a low security risk and most are in jail for crimes such as driving under the influence, minor drug possession, burglary, failure to pay child support, and or prostitution. Inmates and ICE detainees who have committed violent crimes, sex crimes or mayhem are not eligible for transfer to the facility

Before I purchased the house, I noticed there is a jail there.  however after research with low level security, i was okay with it.

driving under the influence - I am okay with this because there are drunk and drive everywhere
minor drug possession - I dont really understand what is minor drug possession. 
burglary - I dont like it, but i am okay with this.
failure to pay child support - i am okay with this.
prostitution - SIGN ME UP.  i want to be the NEXT deuce bigalow

And yet the memorial is a grave concern with respect to the school?

I understand the anti-cemetery crowd but don't patronize me with side arguments.  It's about cultural differences and home values...simple as that.

Home value in OC is a no-brainer investment. Bought my first in HB for $34K, next in Irvine for $55K, next in MV for $79, and another in Placentia for $179K - you can guess what they go for today. PRC money comes to USA in shiploads because PRC can't be trusted. FP markets there and throws in FS as a selling point to draw the money. Smart, you have to give them that.

The home value issue is egg-foo hooey. Plenty of demand means plenty of resale.

This anti-cemetery flock is all Taoist voodoo NIMBYism. You don't want North OC's many Mexican Vets buried in YOUR proximity.

Suggestion: Italian Cypresses. They grow fast, tall and full.

 

[yaliu07]

According to a January 2014 report by the nonprofit organization State Budget Solutions, California had a state debt of approximately $778 billion. Its state debt per capita was $20,449. The report revealed that state governments faced a combined $5.1 trillion in debt. The obligation amounted to $16,178 per capita in the nation.[11]
http://ballotpedia.org/California_state_budget_and_finances

 

[socal78]

Read up on the study about the dead poisoning the living through bodies buried in the cemetery. Can't deny science.

"Silent toxins are seeping out of graveyards around Northern Ireland.And they have been for decades. The problem is the formaldehyde and other chemicals which are used in embalming the dead. Environmental Agency guidance suggests that it takes up to 10 years for this dangerous chemical to dissipate, and more of it goes into the ground every day."http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...yards-pose-threat-to-the-living-31211012.html

There are so many misconceptions in this argument that it's difficult to figure out where to begin.

First of all, the drinking water from IRWD is a combination of imported water (a little more than half) and ground water.http://www.irwd.com/services/water

Secondly, there are no water-drinking wells on the El Toro base. The 18 wells are in Santa Ana.http://www.irwd.com/construction/tce-el-toro-factsTwo of the wells, called Wells 21 and 22, are along Mitchell Ave. in Tustin.http://www.irwd.com/construction/wells-21-and-22-project

Thirdly, those wells pump water from 2,000 feet below ground, out of the Orange County Groundwater Basin.http://www.mwdh2o.com/mwdh2o/pages/...PDFs/OrangeCountyBasins/OrangeCountyBasin.pdf

Lastly, regarding the article... this isn't Ireland. In the United States, we use burial vaults / liners. They are usually constructed of concrete. It is what the coffin is laid inside of. A lot of places outside the U.S. do not use them (hello, China.) Granted, the point of the vault is not to protect the ground below, but the ground above. It is to reinforce the earth so that it will not sink. However, it still provides an enclosed area, a sealed grave. It is not as if the corpses are thrown into a dirt pit and left decomposing directly into the ground. The article also says: "Where a cemetery is on a hill, like Milltown in Belfast, the toxins may be draining down into the Bog Meadows and the River Lagan. Where cemeteries have been subjected to flooding in recent rain, as at Roselawn, toxins may have been brought to the surface." Is the Veteran cemetery going on a hill? No. Do we get precipitation like Ireland? Absolutely not! 

 

[Roger]

The inmates housed at the facility are considered to be a low security risk and most are in jail for crimes such as driving under the influence, minor drug possession, burglary, failure to pay child support, and or prostitution. Inmates and ICE detainees who have committed violent crimes, sex crimes or mayhem are not eligible for transfer to the facility

Before I purchased the house, I noticed there is a jail there.  however after research with low level security, i was okay with it.

driving under the influence - I am okay with this because there are drunk and drive everywhere
minor drug possession - I dont really understand what is minor drug possession. 
burglary - I dont like it, but i am okay with this.
failure to pay child support - i am okay with this.
prostitution - SIGN ME UP.  i want to be the NEXT deuce bigalow

And yet the memorial is a grave concern with respect to the school?

I understand the anti-cemetery crowd but don't patronize me with side arguments.  It's about cultural differences and home values...simple as that.

More than that for me. The traffic. The view for our kids when they are in school.

Im actually okay witha cemetery but would like to relocate it within GP. That would affect future homesites though.

What exactly do you think think your kids are going to see at school?  It's not like they're lining up tombstones to the edge of the memorial...there is going to be a lot of street cover (usually trees)

I am just curious - do you live in any of the neighborhood like PP or PS?  I wonder if there is anyone from PP or PS are for the current cemetery proposal.  Interesting enough most(if not all) folks in supporting the current cemetery proposal are not residents from either neighborhoods.

 

[yaliu07]

according to the organizer, there WILL be communication with veterans.

Why were these veterans turned away at the door?

i dont know so cal.  but according to the organizer, he/the group WILL COMMUNICATE with veteran to find a win-win situation.

socal, please readhttp://www.dailypilot.com/news/tn-dpt-me-0612-irvine-cemetery-20150612,0,7456127.story

hopefully you read through all 57 pages of this thread now.  do you still think we (local residents) are anti-veteran?  do you think we  (local residents) have the right to voice our opinion? 

welcome back socal.  so, did you catch up all 57 pages?  do you still think we (local residents) are anti-veteran? 

 

[Irvinecommuter]

The inmates housed at the facility are considered to be a low security risk and most are in jail for crimes such as driving under the influence, minor drug possession, burglary, failure to pay child support, and or prostitution. Inmates and ICE detainees who have committed violent crimes, sex crimes or mayhem are not eligible for transfer to the facility

Before I purchased the house, I noticed there is a jail there.  however after research with low level security, i was okay with it.

driving under the influence - I am okay with this because there are drunk and drive everywhere
minor drug possession - I dont really understand what is minor drug possession. 
burglary - I dont like it, but i am okay with this.
failure to pay child support - i am okay with this.
prostitution - SIGN ME UP.  i want to be the NEXT deuce bigalow

And yet the memorial is a grave concern with respect to the school?

I understand the anti-cemetery crowd but don't patronize me with side arguments.  It's about cultural differences and home values...simple as that.

More than that for me. The traffic. The view for our kids when they are in school.

Im actually okay witha cemetery but would like to relocate it within GP. That would affect future homesites though.

What exactly do you think think your kids are going to see at school?  It's not like they're lining up tombstones to the edge of the memorial...there is going to be a lot of street cover (usually trees)

I am just curious - do you live in any of the neighborhood like PP or PS?

I live in Stonegate...so not too far away.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

According to a January 2014 report by the nonprofit organization State Budget Solutions, California had a state debt of approximately $778 billion. Its state debt per capita was $20,449. The report revealed that state governments faced a combined $5.1 trillion in debt. The obligation amounted to $16,178 per capita in the nation.[11]
http://ballotpedia.org/California_state_budget_and_finances

Yes...the US is running a national debt.  I think the US is doing okay.