United States vs. ?

[Liar Loan]

Donald Trump Jr. on July 19, 2016 at the RNC convention (speaking about his father):

"I know that when people tell him it can't be done, that guarantees that he gets it done. I know that when someone tells him that something is impossible, that's what triggers him into action.

"When people told him it was impossible for a boy from Queens to go to Manhattan and take on developers in the big city, rather than give up, he changed the skyline of New York.

"I've seen it time and time again, that look in his eyes when someone says it can't be done. I saw that look a little over a year ago when he was told he couldn't possibly succeed in politics. Yes he did. For my father, impossible is just the starting point. That's how he approaches business projects, that's how he approaches life."

 

[Irvinecommuter]

The purpose of the aircraft carriers are different.

US use its aircraft carriers for power projection in battle groups.

Soviets used their submarines for strike/power projection.  Their aircraft carrier's planes are used for defensive roles to protect naval assets.

China's CV-16 is for training and prestige.  The hull design was originally borrowed from Kiev-class and the Su-33 emphasized air superiority role.  But in this combination (CV-16/J-15) you're putting a large plane on a medium displacement carrier, which reduces the number of planes you can operate (this is actually a bigger issue than the lack of catapults).  In contrast Russia and India looked to MiG-29K, which is smaller and you can operate larger number of planes on deck.

CV-17 and the yet to be named larger carrier follows China's two track program, as seen with Sovremennyy/052B and 051C/052D class destroyers.  Track 1 for lower risk, proven imported system/design and track 2 for higher risk domestic product.  Despite whatever propaganda you might have read, the naval planners are methodical and taking their time to learn how to walk before they run.

I totally agree but aircraft carriers are for show and projection of power in the 21st century rather than actual military prowess.  China does a lot of things for show and projection of power as opposed to any practical purpose. 

To claim that China's military is so how behind because they only have one carrier is like measuring how many battleships a country has after WW2.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Donald Trump Jr. on July 19, 2016 at the RNC convention (speaking about his father):

"I know that when people tell him it can't be done, that guarantees that he gets it done. I know that when someone tells him that something is impossible, that's what triggers him into action.

"When people told him it was impossible for a boy from Queens to go to Manhattan and take on developers in the big city, rather than give up, he changed the skyline of New York.

"I've seen it time and time again, that look in his eyes when someone says it can't be done. I saw that look a little over a year ago when he was told he couldn't possibly succeed in politics. Yes he did. For my father, impossible is just the starting point. That's how he approaches business projects, that's how he approaches life."

LOL...

Fred's son Donald joined Trump Management Company in 1968, and rose to become company president in 1971. He renamed it The Trump Organization in 1980. Donald Trump received a loan from his father in the mid-1970s of $1 million (variously reported as numerous loans exceeding $14 million).  This allowed Donald to enter the real estate business in Manhattan, while his father stuck to Brooklyn and Queens. "It was good for me," Donald later commented. "You know, being the son of somebody, it could have been competition to me. This way, I got Manhattan all to myself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Trump

Trump's father was required to get licensed here after a highly unusual loan to the Trump Castle Casino Resort that enabled the casino to narrowly avert a default and make a $16 million interest payment to bondholders.

Fred Trump, through his attorney, bought $3.5 million in chips at a high-stakes blackjack table and left without gambling with them.

The move resulted in an investigation and a complaint by the gaming division. Trump officials and the gaming division reached a settlement of the complaint and the gaming hall has agreed to pay a $30,000 fine. That settlement will be reviewed by the casino commission on June 19.

The approval comes in time for the elder Trump to again lend a hand to his son's gaming halls.

Trump Castle and Trump Plaza each face payments to bondholders of $41.1 million on June 17. While the Trump Plaza apparently will come very close to having enough funds to make the payment, it is becoming increasingly apparent that Trump Castle will fall significantly short.

http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/...cle_934cb836-2c1d-11e6-8a13-173759856fe0.html

?I said, ?Well, why would you want to have three casinos? One is going to cannibalize the other,?? Roffman told ABC News? ?Nightline.? ?And here was his response: ?Marvin, you have no vision. This is going to be a monster property.? And those were the exact words.?

Just weeks before the casino opened, Roffman told The Wall Street Journal, ?When this property opens he will have had so much free publicity he will break every record in the books in April, June and July ? But once the cold winds blow from October to February it won't make it. The market just isn't there."

According to Roffman, Trump was so upset with Roffman?s grim prediction for the Trump Taj Mahal that he called Roffman?s boss. Either make Roffman apologize publicly or fire him, Roffman says Trump told his boss.

Trump told ABC News the day before the Trump Taj Mahal opened that he was out to get Roffman, saying, ?When somebody does something wrong and says something wrong, and somebody's in a conflict position, I decided in this particular case to go after him.?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trumps-taj-mahal-casino-8th-world-closure-years/story?id=42762369

 

[Liar Loan]

To claim that China's military is so how behind because they only have one carrier is like measuring how many battleships a country has after WW2.

Nobody has claimed that.  By your own words, they are pursuing a relic technology.  That's why they are behind.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

To claim that China's military is so how behind because they only have one carrier is like measuring how many battleships a country has after WW2.

Nobody has claimed that.  By your own words, they are pursuing a relic technology.  That's why they are behind.

You did...you claimed the Chinese are behind militarily because they only start build aircraft carriers recently.  They are building them for austerity purposes...not for military purposes.  It like claiming that China is behind technologically because they don't have as many landlines as the US does when in fact it already jumped to a cell/mobile phone based system.

 

[StarmanMBA]

DAMN, THERE'S JUST NO PLEASING THE LIBERALS.

Sure there is.  Just agree with everything they say.  Otherwise, you're:

STUPID
RACIST
SEXIST
HOMOPHOBIC
ANTI-SCIENCE
IGNORANT
BIGOTED
and
STUPID.  REALLY STUPID.

Well...I am glad that you interjected such logical and factually based points into our discussion.  I think we are all better people for having read that post.

It is YOUR side that uses these points so frequently, and  so maliciously, so condescendingly.  IF you were to become "better people," you would not stoop to such levels constantly.  But decades of habit are impossible for you to break, so you blame me for pointing out your vile activities. 

I have been called a "racist" and a "Nazi" countless times.  They're lies, but Leftists traffic in lies, "depending on what the meaning of 'is' is."

 

[Happiness]

The only leverage China has over NK is economic aid. NK will no longer need Chinese aid if they strike a deal with SK and USA to get that aid. In other words, once NK, SK, and USA settle, no one will care what China thinks.

The Chinese Communist Party's main priority is to keep itself in power, not to protect the well being of the Chinese people. Therefore, the Communist Party would never actually get into a war with the US because without a military victory agaiinst the US, which is impossible, the Chinese Communist Party's legitimacy would be fatally undermined.

The US does not need to crush China to topple the Communist regime. Free Great Park homes to every PLA general who defects to US backed pro-democracy forces? Red China would fall in a minute.

 

[fortune11]

Strawman sounds like a Russian bot that has been better trained in English language. 

Lots of repeated usage of the same words over and over again (like "vile" and "hate" for example) but somehow manages to keep control of the grammar unlike the Ruskies on twitter. Major achievement. Maybe they have taken a major leap forward in AI  ? (anyone watch last week's Silicon Valley and Fiona?)


BTB - I have poked the bear, sorry

Have to admire Irvinecommuter's patience ...

 

[Irvinecommuter]

The only leverage China has over NK is economic aid. NK will no longer need Chinese aid if they strike a deal with SK and USA to get that aid. In other words, once NK, SK, and USA settle, no one will care what China thinks.

The Chinese Communist Party's main priority is to keep itself in power, not to protect the well being of the Chinese people. Therefore, the Communist Party would never actually get into a war with the US because without a military victory agaiinst the US, which is impossible, the Chinese Communist Party's legitimacy would be fatally undermined.

The US does not need to crush China to topple the Communist regime. Free Great Park homes to every PLA general who defects to US backed pro-democracy forces? Red China would fall in a minute.

You are kidding me right?    China basically owns NK economically and is the one who protects NK at the UN.  It is NK's biggest trade partner by far and allows its companies to smuggle NK goods.  You think that if Kim was actually making an overture to SK and US economically, China will just sit there and say "good for you."  Xi just summoned Kim to Beijing like a distant vassal to the Emperor a few days ago...you think that China didn't know what Kim was about to do?  Seriously...as I tell my kids...assume that other people are smart and competent too.

Of course the CCP does not want to fight a war with the US but I can guarantee that it has a lot more will to fight a war than the US.  How much stomach does the US have to fight a war in Korea?  None.  The CCP is a master of using the "foreign invader" line to prop up its rule over China.  It already sold itself as the "victim" in Trump's stupid trade war.

Seriously...stop thinking in 1950s terms (even then, the US underestimate China).

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Strawman sounds like a Russian bot that has been better trained in English language. 

Lots of repeated usage of the same words over and over again (like "vile" and "hate" for example) but somehow manages to keep control of the grammar unlike the Ruskies on twitter. Major achievement. Maybe they have taken a major leap forward in AI  ? (anyone watch last week's Silicon Valley and Fiona?)


BTB - I have poked the bear, sorry

Have to admire Irvinecommuter's patience ...

His posts are so deep...I have to take time to fully appreciate their true meaning.

 

[Burn That Belly]

x

 

[Liar Loan]

To claim that China's military is so how behind because they only have one carrier is like measuring how many battleships a country has after WW2.

Nobody has claimed that.  By your own words, they are pursuing a relic technology.  That's why they are behind.

You did...you claimed the Chinese are behind militarily because they only start build aircraft carriers recently.  They are building them for austerity purposes...not for military purposes.  It like claiming that China is behind technologically because they don't have as many landlines as the US does when in fact it already jumped to a cell/mobile phone based system.

My claim is that China is pursuing 20th century technology - a "relic" in your terms - that's why they are behind militarily.  If China started building landlines I would criticize them equally for that.  It would be a laughingstock.

P.S. You may want to look up the definition of austerity.  ???

 

[Burn That Belly]

x

 

[StarmanMBA]

You did...you claimed the Chinese are behind militarily because they only start build aircraft carriers recently.  They are building them for austerity purposes...not for military purposes. 

"Building aircraft carriers for austerity purposes... not for military purposes."

"You have a truly dizzying intellect." - The Man in Black in Princess Bride

Spending hundreds of millions of dollars "for austerity purposes"....."not for military purposes."

Damn those wily Chinamen.

 

[Kings]

ready for trump tower pyongyang?

South Korean official likens a modern North Korea to one with 'a Trump Tower and McDonald's' in it

During a dinner that followed the historic summit between North Korean leader Kim Jong Un and South Korean President Moon Jae-in, North Korean officials indicated the regime wants to modernize its economy, in order to become "a normal country," according to a South Korean official who attended the event.

"They want to be a normal country, a normal state to be recognized by the United States," Chung-in Moon, a special adviser to President Moon, said during a CNN International interview on Friday.

"They want American investment coming to North Korea," he said. "They welcome American sponsors and multilateral consortiums coming into North Korea."

Chung-in referenced Trump Tower and McDonald's as examples of what one might consider to be "modern" for North Korea.

http://www.businessinsider.com/south-korean-official-suggests-north-korea-could-build-mcdonalds-trump-tower-2018-4

 

[fortune11]

How did the anti Obama crowd react to his opening up of relations with Cuba ... trying to jog my memory here

 

[morekaos]

waiting on that nobel peace prize for our glorious president

Trump Nobel Peace Prize nomination was fake, Nobel Institute suspects (According to the article)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/382818002

LOL first time seeing this.  My comment was more of a knock at how much of a joke the Nobel Peace Prize is per Obama receiving it and dropping 20,000+ bombs on other countries.

Anyway, the hype is real:

If Trump succeeds where Obama failed on North Korea, maybe he will get Nobel Peace Prize ? and deserve it

This may yet all fall apart. But if this proves to be the beginning of the end of what was rapidly shaping up to be the most serious international security crisis of our times, then a tremendous amount of credit will be due Trump. Whether or not he always knew what he was doing, his instinct was clear: there will no more pussyfooting around Pyongyang. A dangerous strategy for sure, but one that just may be about to bear fruit.

Obama won the Peace Prize and subsequently got precisely nowhere resolving the North Korea conundrum. Suddenly, Trump getting it down the road doesn?t seem so implausible.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/donald-trump-resolve-north-korea-nuclear-crisis-where-barack-obama-failed-win-nobel-peace-prize-a8242731.html

This would hurt beyond all belief...

South Korean Leader: President Trump Should Win Nobel Peace Prize

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/04/south-korean-leader-president-trump-should-win-nobel-peace-prize/

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Can China ever be really "behind in technology"?

Don't they build everyone else's technology?

I guess military tech is the only thing we don't farm out? Or we do, but it's disguised as a toy or mobile phone.

 

[Liar Loan]

How did the anti Obama crowd react to his opening up of relations with Cuba ... trying to jog my memory here

I think in general they were fine with it, excluding the Cuba hawks like Rubio.

P.S.  Talk about major whataboutism on your part.  What about? What about?  LOL..

 

[nosuchreality]

To claim that China's military is so how behind because they only have one carrier is like measuring how many battleships a country has after WW2.

Nobody has claimed that.  By your own words, they are pursuing a relic technology.  That's why they are behind.

You did...you claimed the Chinese are behind militarily because they only start build aircraft carriers recently.  They are building them for austerity purposes...not for military purposes.  It like claiming that China is behind technologically because they don't have as many landlines as the US does when in fact it already jumped to a cell/mobile phone based system.

My claim is that China is pursuing 20th century technology - a "relic" in your terms - that's why they are behind militarily.  If China started building landlines I would criticize them equally for that.  It would be a laughingstock.

P.S. You may want to look up the definition of austerity.  ???

Minor nit, China's version of an aircraft carrier is to just build a militarized island from the sea floor capable of supporting long range aircraft.

Much more durable than an aircraft crarrier with added benefit of being sovereign land and hence coastal waters claims.