Subtle (or not so subtle) Racism

kayochan

Active member
So being Asian, I have experienced racism in one form or another.  Some subtle, and others in your face. 

Being in Irvine, and surrounded by other Asians, I assume that display of racism is a lot less.  Especially against Asians.  Just curious as to what form of racism have you experienced in Irvine if any?

Not in Irvine but at Nordstrom, I had a Persian lady tell me that she has "people like me" do servant's work in her country.  (This came about when I asked her son to stop hitting my toddler son at Nordstrom, she came to defend her son and told me that there was nothing wrong with what her son was doing.) :eek:

Here in Irvine I have had an encounter with a middle aged Caucasian lady telling me to run along dismissively when I brought up an issue at a store.  I probably fit the stereotypical Asian image of being quiet, meek and passive (although I am nothing but) :)

Anyone else experience any racism in Irvine even though it is considered pretty diverse?

 
IrvineNinja said:
So being Asian, I have experienced racism in one form or another.  Some subtle, and others in your face. 

Being in Irvine, and surrounded with other Asians, I assume that display of racism is a lot less.  Especially against Asians.  Just curious as to what form of racism have you experienced in Irvine if any?

Not in Irvine but at Nordstrom, I had a Persian lady tell me that she has "people like me" do servant's work in her country.  (This came about when I asked her son to stop hitting my toddler son at Nordstrom, she came to defend her son and told me that there was nothing wrong with what her son was doing.) :eek:

Here in Irvine I have had an encounter with a middle aged Caucasian lady telling me to run along dismissively when I brought up an issue at a store.  I probably fit the stereotypical Asian image of being quiet, meek and passive (although I am nothing but) :)

Anyone else experience any racism in Irvine even though it is considered pretty diverse?

Dude I hope Ninja means you have mad sneaky combat skills. Did you regulate or make a come back?  I would have yelled out... WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU WANY TO BLOW UP THE STORE?????? 

I think everyone has had some subtle racism thrown their way.  Had a hate crime at my old apartment back in the day. Dude was drunk and tried to trash my party. My friends pulled him inside and bashed him good. When the cops came he kept spieling out how he hated gooks. Lol. I should have sued him but doubt he had anything. We got some money for damages.
 
"Dude I hope Ninja means you have mad sneaky combat skills. Did you regulate or make a come back?  I would have yelled out... WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU WANT TO BLOW UP THE STORE??????"

THIS!

 
 
JM:  Before I went all Ninja on her, the store manager of color intervened and kicked her out of the premises with the help of his subordinates :)
 
Many a time when speaking with an Asian realtor at an open house will I hear "oh, I only refer to Asian lenders because.. you know...my customers are more comfortable..."

Fine. Whatever. By the way... what's your RE License number? It's as overt as that sometimes while other times it's less so. At least in sales you develop thicker skin and you move on to other opportunities. Harder to do so if this occurs in your neighborhood or where you shop every day.

PS - In my business we have to count Persians as White, South American's as White, Algerian's as White, Pakistanis and Indian's as either White or Asian (depending on preference). All this means is that the "White" category in statistics isn't copy paper white, but more of a newsprint gray.

My .02c

Soylent Green Is People.
 
Tufts University study says white people believe that anti-white racism is a bigger problem than anti-black racism.
http://now.tufts.edu/news-releases/whites-believe-they-are-victims-racism-more-o
http://www.salon.com/2015/03/04/10_ways_white_people_are_more_racist_than_they_realize_partner/

10 ways white people are more racist than they realize

Kali Holloway
10 ways white people are more racist than they realize
This article originally appeared on AlterNet.
AlterNet If there?s anything our fraught national dialogue on race has taught us, it?s that there are no racists in this country. (In fact, not only do multiple studies confirm that most white Americans generally believe racism is over ? just 16 percent say there?s a lot of racial discrimination ? it turns out that many actually believe white people experience more discrimination than black people.) It?s a silly idea, of course, but it?s easy to delude ourselves into thinking that inequality is a result of cultural failures, racial pathology and a convoluted narrative involving black-on-black crime, hoodies, rap music and people wearing their pants too low. To admit that racism is fundamental to who we are, that it imbues our thinking in ways we wouldn?t and couldn?t believe without the application of the scientific method, is infinitely harder. And yet, there?s endless evidence to prove it.

For those who recognize racism is real and pervasive, it?s also comforting to believe that discrimination is something perpetuated by other people, overlooking the ways we are personally complicit in its perpetuation. But fruitful conversations about race require acknowledging that racism sits at the very core of our thinking. By something akin to osmosis, culturally held notions around race mold and shape the prejudices of everyone within the dominant culture. People of color unwittingly internalize these notions as well, despite the fact that doing so contributes to our own marginalization. Most of us know the destructive outcomes systemic racism produces (higher rates of poverty, incarceration, infant mortality, etc.). Accepting that implicit bias is happening at every level makes it awful hard to chalk those issues up to black and brown failure.

Here?s a look at just some of the ways our internalized biases add up to devastating consequences for lives, communities and society.

1. College professors, across race/ethnicity and gender, are more likely to respond to queries from students they believe are white males. Despite universities frequently being described as bastions of progressivism and liberal indoctrination centers, a recent study found that faculty of colleges and universities are more likely to ignore requests for mentorship from minority and/or female students. Researchers sent more than 6,500 professors at 259 schools in 89 disciplines identical letters that differed only in the name and implied race/gender of the fictitious student sender (e.g., ?Mei Chen? as an Asian female; ?Keisha Thomas? as a black female; ?Brad Anderson? as a white male). The study found that regardless of discipline (with the sole exception of fine arts), faculty more consistently responded to perceived white males. Two notable additional findings: 1) professors at public institutions were significantly more likely than their private institution counterparts to respond to students of color, and 2) the students most discriminated against were perceived East Asian women, followed by South Asian men. You can look at the numbers up close here.

2. White people, including white children, are less moved by the pain of people of color, including children of color, than by the pain of fellow whites. Three distinct studies support this finding. The first found that around age 7, white children began to believe black children are less susceptible to pain than white children. Another study found that emergency room personnel are less likely to give African American and Latino/Hispanic children pain medication, even when they are experiencing severe abdominal pain. The same study also found that even when the same tests are ordered, black and Hispanic children face significantly longer emergency room stays. A third study found that white people feel less empathy toward black people in pain than they do for whites experiencing pain.

3. White people are more likely to have done illegal drugs than blacks or Latinos, but are far less likely to go to to jail for it. A 2011 study from the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Data Archive found white people were more likely to use illegal and prescription opiates (heroin, oxycontin), hallucinogens, and cocaine than blacks and Hispanics by significant margins. Black people just edged out white people on marijuana and crack use (which incurred disproportionate sentences for decades). Yet, a 2009 Human Rights Watch study found that each year from 1980 to 2007, blacks were arrested on drug charges at rates 2.8 to 5.5 times higher than whites.

4. Black men are sentenced to far lengthier prison sentences than white men for the same crimes. A 2012 study by the United States Sentencing Commission found black men were sentenced to prison terms nearly 20 percent longer than white men for similar crimes. To break those numbers down further, from January 2005 to December 2007, sentences for black males were 15.2 percent longer than those of their white counterparts. From December 2007 to September 2011, that number actually increased, with differences in sentencing growing to 19.5 percent.

5. White people, including police, see black children as older and less innocent than white children. A UCLA psychological study surveyed mostly white, male police officers to determine ?prejudice and unconscious dehumanization of black people.? Researchers found a correlation between officers who unconsciously dehumanized blacks and those who had used force against black children in custody. The study also found that white female college students saw black and white children as equally innocent until age 9, after which they perceived black boys as significantly older ? by about four and half years ? and less innocent than their white peers. UCLA researcher Phillip Atiba Goff wrote, ?Our research found that black boys can be seen as responsible for their actions at an age when white boys still benefit from the assumption that children are essentially innocent.? Which leads right to our next stats.

6. Black children are more likely to be tried as adults and are given harsher sentences than white children. A Stanford University study uncovered this sobering information: ?imply bringing to mind a black (vs. white) juvenile offender led [white study] participants to view juveniles in general as significantly more similar to adults in their inherent culpability and to express more support for severe sentencing.? That is, when white respondents thought the child on trial was black, they were more like to endorse ?sentencing all juveniles to life without parole when they have committed serious violent crimes.? That might explain why, of the roughly 2,500 juveniles in the U.S. who have been sentenced to life without parole, nearly all (97 percent) were male and (60 percent) black. Interesting study note: for black kids, killing a white person was a good way to end up behind bars for their entire adult life. For white kids, killing a black person actually helped their chances of ensuring their prison stay would be temporary. From the report: ?[T]he proportion of African American [juveniles sentenced to life without parole] for the killing of a white person (43.4 percent) is nearly twice the rate at which African American juveniles overall have taken a white person?s life (23.2 percent). What?s more, we find that the odds of a [juvenile life without probation] sentence for a white offender who killed a black victim are only about half as likely (3.6 percent) as the proportion of white juveniles arrested for killing blacks (6.4 percent).?

7. White people are more likely to support the criminal justice system, including the death penalty, when they think it?s disproportionately punitive toward black people. That?s right: white people agree with criminal justice outcomes more when they think race disproportionately targets black people for incarceration. According to a 2012 Stanford study conducted in ?liberal? San Francisco and New York City, when white people were told that black people were unfairly impacted by punitive criminal justice policies like three-strikes laws and stop-and-frisk, they were less likely to advocate for criminal justice reform. In a similar vein, researchers found in 2007 that telling whites about racist sentencing laws made them favor harsher sentences. That is, racism made them like those sentences more. The study authors write: ?[O]ur most startling finding is that many whites actually become more supportive of the death penalty upon learning that it discriminates against blacks.?

8. The more ?stereotypically black? a defendant looks in a murder case, the higher the likelihood he will be sentenced to death. This is perhaps one of the most horrifying findings in a list of horrifying findings. To quote the study, ?the degree to which the defendant is perceived to have a stereotypically black appearance (e.g., broad nose, thick lips, dark skin)? could mean the difference between a sentence of life or death, particularly if his victim was white. Read the whole study; it?s fascinating.

9. Conversely, white people falsely recall black men they perceive as being ?smart? as being lighter-skinned. Here?s another incredible, though not entirely surprising study finding. When white people encounter the faces of African American men they are primed to believe are ?educated,? they later recall those individuals as being lighter-skinned than they actually were. The researchers developed a name for this phenomenon: ?skin tone memory bias.? This compulsion was chalked up to stereotypical beliefs about dark skin and its correlation with negative traits. To reckon with the cognitive dissonance created by perceiving a black man as ?educated,? white participants unconsciously realigned that intelligence with skin that more closely approximated whiteness.

10. A number of studies find white people view lighter-skinned African Americans (and Latinos) as more intelligent, competent, trustworthy and reliable than their darker-skinned peers. A 2006 study found that dark-skinned black men with MBAs were less likely to be hired than lighter-skinned black men who only possessed bachelor?s degrees. A 2010 study in North Carolina found that light-skinned black women received shorter prison terms than darker-skinned black women. And a 2012 Villanova University study found that, ?African American and Latino respondents with the lightest skin are several times more likely to be seen by whites as intelligent compared with those with the darkest skin.?

The implications of these findings are hugely significant, and lend credence to the often expressed feeling of tokenization by black people who are deemed smart, successful or intelligent by whites. That is, the feeling that white people perceive certain African Americans as exceptional or ?not like the others.? It also adds an important layer to the conversation around colorism, which privileges light skin above darker skin both within and outside of communities of color. (And has helped skin lightening products become a booming global industry in places like India, the Philippines and some parts of Africa.)

Unfortunately, I could go on and on. About how, for example, black students ? even preschoolers ? are far more likely to be suspended from school than white students. (That fact is even truer for dark-skinned black students.) The same products, when displayed by black hands on the Internet, are less likely to sell than when they are held by white hands. One study even found that white people basically think black people are paranormal entities, an idea so ludicrous it begs that you read an explanation, here.

Racism is comfortable and easy; it helps us make quick, baseless decisions without the taxing act of thinking. The next time you catch yourself having a racist thought or feeling, try not brushing it off. Ask yourself where it came from, what it means and how you can unpack it. Because if the evidence above suggests anything, it?s that critical self-examination is our only hope of moving the needle at all on this thing. Stop imagining that being racist is something that only other people do, and start looking closely at your own beliefs.

Especially the ones you?ve never admitted to yourselves that you hold.
 
I would have told that lady at Nordstrom that she herself is Asian just to get under her skin! In high school, the Persians I knew would classify themselves as white and I would tell them that technically they're Asian, since Iran is part of Asia. That annoyed them so much when I said that.
 
Many years ago, when searching for a rental home I was told by the current tenant not to bother applying because the landlords wanted an Asian tenant. I applied anyways and never heard back.

 
Preferring Asian lenders or tenants could be coming from the buyer or owner might prefer to speak in their native language for such huge financial commitments without any miscommunication. It could happen with someone from Europe, South America, Middle East or anywhere. Irvine just happens to be the city where many Asians are buying and investing. Now if the agent clearly explained so it would be a lot more understandable instead of sounding like they wouldn't want to deal with anyone but Asians.
As for experiencing racism, I believe it's all about feeling offensive.
If it seems like a different group of ethnicity or nationality is attacking me, I think it's the best way to first think thoroughly if I'm the one who have done anything to offend them in a first place. The way of speaking, facial expressions, certain attitudes and whatnot. Then it's not really about racism. It's more about moralism. It would have happened within the same ethnicity also.
If someone really is attacking me without any reason or because of one's ego towards certain ethnicity, then I think it's better to just walk away from such human being. You don't try to fight or reason with mentally ill people on the street. You just walk away. 
 
Mety said:
Preferring Asian lenders or tenants could be coming from the buyer or owner might prefer to speak in their native language for such huge financial commitments without any miscommunication. It could happen with someone from Europe, South America, Middle East or anywhere. Irvine just happens to be the city where many Asians are buying and investing. Now if the agent clearly explained so it would be a lot more understandable instead of sounding like they wouldn't want to deal with anyone but Asians.

Doesn't matter the reasoning behind it - this is not allowed under the Fair Housing Act.
 
My parents came to Irvine in 1989 looking for houses.  Back then new homes could be had for $140K.  We ended up buying in Buena Park because my mom didn't want to "live in the middle of a farm".

I mentioned this to my high school teacher, who was black.  She indicated that her friend tried to buy a house in Irvine some years ago and no agent would assist or sell a home in Irvine to a black man.  The guy had to ask one of his white coworkers to go in his place and deal with the agent.  By the time that he showed up to sign the papers it was too late for them to stop it.  By using this method he was able to buy 2 homes in Irvine, both rented out to white tenants.

When I moved to Irvine in 2000, if a black person walked down the street in the neighborhood the residences would actually call the police.  Thankfully that is no longer the case.
 
momopi said:
My parents came to Irvine in 1989 looking for houses.  Back then new homes could be had for $140K.  We ended up buying in Buena Park because my mom didn't want to "live in the middle of a farm".

I mentioned this to my high school teacher, who was black.  She indicated that her friend tried to buy a house in Irvine some years ago and no agent would assist or sell a home in Irvine to a black man.  The guy had to ask one of his white coworkers to go in his place and deal with the agent.  By the time that he showed up to sign the papers it was too late for them to stop it.  By using this method he was able to buy 2 homes in Irvine, both rented out to white tenants.

When I moved to Irvine in 2000, if a black person walked down the street in the neighborhood the residences would actually call the police.  Thankfully that is no longer the case.

Times have changed.  Today I saw a black home owner in one of the very posh neighborhood and while driving back I saw a white homeless guy pushing a cart around on Culver near Northwood Pointe.
 
[quoteI saw a homeless guy pushing a cart around on Culver near Northwood Pointe.[/quote]
You must be mistaken. There are no homeless people in Irvine.
However, a few years ago an elderly Asian lady approached me in the Parking lot of the Lake Forest Home Depot. I couldn't really understand what she was asking but I gave her a couple of dollars anyway. She seemed grateful.
 
When I'm a dick and wrong, I've started just saying 'kein englisch' an walking away as I've gotten use to so many in OC doing it to me.
 
momopi said:
My parents came to Irvine in 1989 looking for houses.  Back then new homes could be had for $140K.  We ended up buying in Buena Park because my mom didn't want to "live in the middle of a farm".

I mentioned this to my high school teacher, who was black.  She indicated that her friend tried to buy a house in Irvine some years ago and no agent would assist or sell a home in Irvine to a black man.  The guy had to ask one of his white coworkers to go in his place and deal with the agent.  By the time that he showed up to sign the papers it was too late for them to stop it.  By using this method he was able to buy 2 homes in Irvine, both rented out to white tenants.

When I moved to Irvine in 2000, if a black person walked down the street in the neighborhood the residences would actually call the police.  Thankfully that is no longer the case.


Crazy
 
nosuchreality said:
When I'm a dick and wrong, I've started just saying 'kein englisch' an walking away as I've gotten use to so many in OC doing it to me.

OmG, you too?! That is so funny. I also only respond in German -- not after being a "dick" but, rather, with high-pressure salesmen who won't go away.
 
Soylent Green Is People said:
Many a time when speaking with an Asian realtor at an open house will I hear "oh, I only refer to Asian lenders because.. you know...my customers are more comfortable..."

Fine. Whatever. By the way... what's your RE License number? It's as overt as that sometimes while other times it's less so. At least in sales you develop thicker skin and you move on to other opportunities. Harder to do so if this occurs in your neighborhood or where you shop every day.

PS - In my business we have to count Persians as White, South American's as White, Algerian's as White, Pakistanis and Indian's as either White or Asian (depending on preference). All this means is that the "White" category in statistics isn't copy paper white, but more of a newsprint gray.

My .02c

Soylent Green Is People.

The new HMDA (Reg B) race/ethnicity reporting allows more granularity, and includes Middle Eastern folk in the Other Asian category.
https://www.consumerfinance.gov/pol.../implementation-guidance/hmda-implementation/
 
Back
Top