"Paydirt". Do not buy in Great Park until you watch this.

[qwerty]

I live in a KB built home and would consider buying another one even with their less than stellar reputation.

i do find it funny that countless of people bash KB and wouldnt consider their development because of their poor build quality then they turn around and buy an irvine pacific home, which is probably even worse.  ive walked around the models at whisler ridge and garden hill and the construction quality seems just as good/bad as any other new home community ive walked through.  i personally would rather buy a KB home than an irvine pacific home.

 

[irvinehusky]

Just curious but how recent is the info. on the graphics?

I remember about 4 years ago when I moved back down here, I was researching Irvine real estate and came across this TCE plume thing.  I was religiously reading IHB then and probably my only post there was asking about this TCE plume situation and if anyone was worried about it.  I don't think I got a response back.  I assumed I touched a sensitive spot so I didn't follow up on my question.  Although I understand more of Irvine may be affected (If it's not one thing, it's another, right?), we quickly dropped Woodbridge from our consideration.  If a Erin Brockovich kind of scandal ever broke out, I can't imagine any part of Irvine real estate being spared though.

I'm hoping this doesn't turn into the Talk Irvine TCE Plume lawsuit/(tell us your symptoms, if you're still alive) forum. 

Thank you for your help.

Better to be safe than sorry.  I would avoid areas around the TCE plume

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Back in the day, other than test, there was another female member who would post about TCE plumes.

 

[Irvineshopper]

Just curious but how recent is the info. on the graphics?

I pulled it from the web and the graphics notes that it was last updated on Aug 2010 (upper right corner)

 

[none]

Wouldn't other Irvine communities be affected by this plume, not just Woodbridge?  I would think Woodbury and SG would be also.

I have been using our tap water (boiling it) for cooking rather than using filtered water.  We only drank filtered water--never thought to cook with it too.

I think I will now, just in case.  Very scary.  Yet home prices are still sky high... there must be something we all drank in the water to still want a home in Irvine. 

 

[socal78]

3) Having a limited scientific background, are we talking parts per billion, trillion or quadrillion? If it's PPT, it's a worry only a NIMBY could take seriously. I'd sooner live in an area that has DDT or Benzine in parts per billion coming out of my tap water than 1 mile away from the I-5 which is spewing both engine exhaust and road noise 24/7.

The clean-up goal, according to IRWD, is 5 PPB in groundwater. LINK In the link I provided earlier, it says "Since the water treatment began in early 2007, nearly 3.5 billion gallons of water have been extracted and 97.1 pounds of TCE have been removed. The overall process of pumping and treating to rid the water of contaminants could take 40 years, Hills said." Filtration began in 2006 / 2007 depending on which source you go with.

Ok, so, 3.5B gallons of water @ 8.34 lbs. per gallon = 29.19B lbs. of water

97 lbs. of TCE / 29.2B lbs. =  3.32 PPB and that's only what they were able to filter out. We do not know how much they can't catch.

... They do not tell us what is remaining. I haven't been able to find one document yet that says what the testing results originally show. The only mention was in that first link I posted to IRWD where they report: "... the precise origin, nature, use, and quantities of TCE at Site 24 are not documented."

As for drinking water, IRWD only provides an outdated report, 5 years old on their webpage. LINK The test is as sensitive as 0.5 PPB. From 2006 - 2008, they say no TCE was detected at those levels at the 7 testing sites. However, we don't get our drinking water from Irvine ground water. Some comes from wells in Santa Ana. TCE was detected at one well there. It was shut down.

As for the filtered water, a portion of it is dumped into the ocean and the rest is used for landscape irrigation. Which one is more of a concern - consuming TCE at levels up to <0.5PPB or kids & pets coming into contact with it at unspecified amounts everywhere there is a municipal sprinkler spraying non-potable water (at 5 PPB if you believe they meet the cleanup goals for that)? I hope everyone will review all of the information and decide for themselves.

 

[socal78]

I will add that the IRWD report "monitoring the Woodbridge area" water is a bit misleading.

As I said, the water being tested at Woodbridge is imported from Santa Ana. LINK

This is like taking a piss test but using another person's urine.

 

[qwerty]

I will add that the IRWD report "monitoring the Woodbridge area" water is a bit misleading.

As I said, the water being tested at Woodbridge is imported from Santa Ana. LINK

This is like taking a piss test but using another person's urine.

i think you are misinterpreting what they are saying. they are just talking about drinking water, not groundwater underneath woodbridge.  it sounds like the majority of irvines drinking water comes from those 17 remaining wells in Santa Ana. 

 

[socal78]

I will add that the IRWD report "monitoring the Woodbridge area" water is a bit misleading.

As I said, the water being tested at Woodbridge is imported from Santa Ana. LINK

This is like taking a piss test but using another person's urine.

i think you are misinterpreting what they are saying. they are just talking about drinking water, not groundwater underneath woodbridge.  it sounds like the majority of irvines drinking water comes from those 17 remaining wells in Santa Ana. 

What? The report labeled "drinking water" is about the drinking water?    Don't worry. We are on the same page, which is exactly why I said it's misleading. I'm not confusing: drinking water vs. Plume Juice. (Unless, of course, the IRWD knows something we don't i.e. TCE possibly leaching into the pipes.) I'm talking about the location: Irvine vs. Santa Ana.  The test sites vs. the true source.

Btw: The drinking water is all beside the point, imo.

 

[socal78]

I have been using our tap water (boiling it) for cooking rather than using filtered water.  We only drank filtered water--never thought to cook with it too.

Why bother? The drinking water is not an area of contention.

 

[jayl23]

I have been using our tap water (boiling it) for cooking rather than using filtered water.  We only drank filtered water--never thought to cook with it too.

Why bother? The drinking water is not an area of contention.

Some of us don't like the flavor of the tap water.  I filter and boil my tap water before drinking it, since I am very sensitive to any 'off' flavors of my water - maybe I'm a supertaster. 

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Some of us don't like the flavor of the tap water.  I filter and boil my tap water before drinking it, since I am very sensitive to any 'off' flavors of my water - maybe I'm a supertaster. 

Speaking of "flavor":

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2jKf_qZA2E[/youtube]

Just watch the first minute (or all of it if you like Avatar (the cartoon... not the Cameron movie)).

 

[Irvinecommuter]

The film director is a little too biased for my taste.  Lennar may have done bad things but all builders are guilty of that.  Honestly, it's pretty unfair to say that Lennar is swindling people.  300+ lawsuits for a major builder like Lennar is actually not that bad.

Also, it is pretty unfair to say that nothing has taken place to fix El Toro. 
http://yosemite.epa.gov/r9/sfund/r9...El+Toro+Marine+Corps+Air+Station?OpenDocument
http://www.irwd.com/your-water/water-quality/el-toro-cleanup-facts.html

The site is being monitor by the EPA and the DOD remains on the hook for cleanup. 

 

[socal78]

I received a PM from a TI member asking how to view the documentary, "Paydirt". Apparently, the Vimeo link I posted earlier has now gone private. I just sent an e-mail to the producer of the film, asking if it is available anywhere else online. I will provide an update if I hear anything.

 

[Joe61022]

The film uses anecdotes and fearmongering, with little scientific evidence. Reminds me of the anti-vaccination crowd, or GMO labeling.

There is a safe amount of "toxic" chemicals that does not cause cancer. Did you know that all infant formula and even breastmilk have a chemical used in industrial manufacturing, de-icing solutions and fire extinguishers? It's called "sodium chloride". Also known as salt!

 

[socal78]

The film uses anecdotes and fearmongering, with little scientific eviden cause cancer.

Did you watch the film? If so, how, because the link Is invalid.

 

[meccos12]

The film uses anecdotes and fearmongering, with little scientific evidence. Reminds me of the anti-vaccination crowd, or GMO labeling.

There is a safe amount of "toxic" chemicals that does not cause cancer. Did you know that all infant formula and even breastmilk have a chemical used in industrial manufacturing, de-icing solutions and fire extinguishers? It's called "sodium chloride". Also known as salt!

I havent seen the film to comment on anecdotes and the fearmongering.  The film likely does use some fearmongering as most films of this nature do to bring home a point.  In as much as this movie likely makes far stretched assumptions or claims, it appears you do the same as well.  For example, Id love to hear what safe amount of "toxic" chemicals would not cause cancer.  Also, why did you put "toxic" in quotations.  TCEs ARE toxic period.  Does the fact that studies show TCEs to cause cancers in animals make TCEs not toxic enough, where it warrants quotations as to suggest it may not be that toxic? 

Furthermore, bringing up table salt as a chemical used in industrial manufacturing is a strawman argument.  This thread was never about common chemicals used in homes that are used in industrial manufacturing as well, but rather about TCEs which ARE known to be toxic and cancinogenic.  No one is arguing that table salt is harmful (unless taken in massive quantities).  You might as well list all the crazy industrial uses of H20.  Or also known as drinking water or evian or dasani or arrowhead, or whatever you prefer.  Im not here to defend this movie but to expose the hypocrisy in your response. 

BTW like I said, I neither agree or disagree with this movie as I have not seen it, however TCEs would be a huge concern for me if I bought a house in this area because I know for a FACT that TCEs are toxic and are known to be carcincogenic in animals (making it likely to be carcinogenic in humans as well), but mostly because I do not know the level of exposure.  The unknown is always the scariest.   

 

[aquabliss]

I found this:http://vimeo.com/24062555

Short version of the documentary and hosted by the same guy I think.

 

[wrigley]

I have seen it, back when it was originally posted.  The part about the GP is based on a veteran who used to work at El Toro and I believe he also is involved with that salem news website, which is basically a website run by another vet, semi-masquerading as a news site.  Obviously his view is a little biased.  Not saying that there are not legitimate concerns about TCE and radioactive materials used when the base was active, but it was a little over the top.  I especially did not like the constant mentioning of the child who died from leukemia.  Felt like they were using her death to further their cause.

 

[Chairman]

All the home builders in Irvine use all the same contractors so really it's all the same. Everyone's experience will be different because everyone has a different level of acceptance level and expectation.