Flipping in today's market for a profit? Possible or Impossible

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sugarspunZ_IHB

sugarspunZ_IHB

New member
I primarily work as a short sale listing agent. Fortunately I have a very good team and we have been extremely successful so far. We employ a specific strategy for getting these deals done and in the process I am finding that the lenders bottom line is significantly below market value ($40k to $100k depending on loan amount).

This got me thinking...

If I found the right home that is a short sale in the right neighborhood and was able to purchase it for a significant discount, do some minor rehabbing, could I then flip the house for a profit at least 90 days later (to avoid any title seasoning issues).

Now if everything falls into place I know this is possible, but my real worry is holding the home for 90 days and then putting it up for sale. What, if anything, could happen with the market in that short amount of time? Is there a risk and if so is it worth it?



thoughts?
 
<blockquote>If I found the right home that is a short sale in the right neighborhood and was able to purchase it for a significant discount, do some minor rehabbing, could I then flip the house for a profit at least 90 days later (to avoid any title seasoning issues).</blockquote>


If you are involved as an agent and know the market why would you be asking such a basic question of strangers?



You should know wheather the market will allow an investor to do this if you are really up to date on your infomation and really understand the market.



Also it would seem that a fallback position of the property working as a rental should be considered.



What are "title seasoning issues"?



If your below market purchase set a comp how would you go about getting a new apprasial for a higher amount?



I would think all cash or a credit line would be needed to do this type of speculation in today's market.





Enjoy!
 
I think by title seasoning he means the FHA 90 day rule, which means buyers with an FHA loan can't purchase a property that was previously purchased in the previous 90 days-it's to prevent flipping, although it does nothing of the sort-flippers just wait 90 days.
 
[quote author="xsocal land merchant" date=1254718935]<blockquote>If I found the right home that is a short sale in the right neighborhood and was able to purchase it for a significant discount, do some minor rehabbing, could I then flip the house for a profit at least 90 days later (to avoid any title seasoning issues).</blockquote>


If you are involved as an agent and know the market why would you be asking such a basic question of strangers?



You should know wheather the market will allow an investor to do this if you are really up to date on your infomation and really understand the market.



Also it would seem that a fallback position of the property working as a rental should be considered.



What are "title seasoning issues"?



If your below market purchase set a comp how would you go about getting a new apprasial for a higher amount?



I would think all cash or a credit line would be needed to do this type of speculation in today's market.





Enjoy!</blockquote>
obviously i am not 100% confident in my knowledge of the market otherwise i would not be asking. i will be the first to admit i dont know everything.
 
[quote author="Geotpf" date=1254776413]I think by title seasoning he means the FHA 90 day rule, which means buyers with an FHA loan can't purchase a property that was previously purchased in the previous 90 days-it's to prevent flipping, although it does nothing of the sort-flippers just wait 90 days.</blockquote>
exactly.
 
[quote author="sugarspunZ" date=1254796031][quote author="xsocal land merchant" date=1254718935]<blockquote>If I found the right home that is a short sale in the right neighborhood and was able to purchase it for a significant discount, do some minor rehabbing, could I then flip the house for a profit at least 90 days later (to avoid any title seasoning issues).</blockquote>


If you are involved as an agent and know the market why would you be asking such a basic question of strangers?



You should know wheather the market will allow an investor to do this if you are really up to date on your infomation and really understand the market.



Also it would seem that a fallback position of the property working as a rental should be considered.



What are "title seasoning issues"?



If your below market purchase set a comp how would you go about getting a new apprasial for a higher amount?



I would think all cash or a credit line would be needed to do this type of speculation in today's market.





Enjoy!</blockquote>
obviously i am not 100% confident in my knowledge of the market otherwise i would not be asking. i will be the first to admit i dont know everything.</blockquote>
How long have you been a realtor? What areas do you focus in on?
 
I have only been a realtor for about a year and a half. full time for about a year. prior to this i did mortgages from 02 to 07.

i dont have an area per say that i focus on. i focus on short sales in orange county where ever they may be. fortunately my team and i are very good at getting them closed. i do however plan on focusing on a geographic area in the future.
 
[quote author="sugarspunZ" date=1254798658]I have only been a realtor for about a year and a half. full time for about a year. prior to this i did mortgages from 02 to 07.

i dont have an area per say that i focus on. i focus on short sales in orange county where ever they may be. fortunately my team and i are very good at getting them closed. <strong>i do however plan on focusing on a geographic area in the future</strong>.</blockquote>
I think that is a great idea. A good realtor knows what they know and knows what they don't know.
 
[quote author="USCTrojanCPA" date=1254799032][quote author="sugarspunZ" date=1254798658]I have only been a realtor for about a year and a half. full time for about a year. prior to this i did mortgages from 02 to 07.

i dont have an area per say that i focus on. i focus on short sales in orange county where ever they may be. fortunately my team and i are very good at getting them closed. <strong>i do however plan on focusing on a geographic area in the future</strong>.</blockquote>
I think that is a great idea. A good realtor knows what they know and knows what they don't know.</blockquote>
i agree with you 100%. I have a few to many things on my plate right now. i am studying my butt off for the brokers exam next month.

what i really need to do is network and learn from some very successful realtors. i have a lot to learn about the business and need some guidance. i am doing ok now and i can see it getting much better as the market continues to turn for the worst, but what i am doing with short sales in not sustainable. i am not going to get caught with my pants down like it did when the mortgage market blew up.
 
[quote author="sugarspunZ" date=1254799979][quote author="USCTrojanCPA" date=1254799032][quote author="sugarspunZ" date=1254798658]I have only been a realtor for about a year and a half. full time for about a year. prior to this i did mortgages from 02 to 07.

i dont have an area per say that i focus on. i focus on short sales in orange county where ever they may be. fortunately my team and i are very good at getting them closed. <strong>i do however plan on focusing on a geographic area in the future</strong>.</blockquote>
I think that is a great idea. A good realtor knows what they know and knows what they don't know.</blockquote>
i agree with you 100%. I have a few to many things on my plate right now. i am studying my butt off for the brokers exam next month.

what i really need to do is network and learn from some very successful realtors. i have a lot to learn about the business and need some guidance. i am doing ok now and i can see it getting much better as the market continues to turn for the worst, but what i am doing with short sales in not sustainable. i am not going to get caught with my pants down like it did when the mortgage market blew up.</blockquote>
Why are you getting your broker's license? Do you have you license hung at a large national chain? The reason why I ask is because there are several low/no split brokers out there which provides someone like myself with no incentive to get his broker's license.
 
[quote author="sugarspunZ" date=1254799979][quote author="USCTrojanCPA" date=1254799032][quote author="sugarspunZ" date=1254798658]I have only been a realtor for about a year and a half. full time for about a year. prior to this i did mortgages from 02 to 07.

i dont have an area per say that i focus on. i focus on short sales in orange county where ever they may be. fortunately my team and i are very good at getting them closed. <strong>i do however plan on focusing on a geographic area in the future</strong>.</blockquote>
I think that is a great idea. A good realtor knows what they know and knows what they don't know.</blockquote>
i agree with you 100%. I have a few to many things on my plate right now. i am studying my butt off for the brokers exam next month.

what i really need to do is network and learn from some very successful realtors. i have a lot to learn about the business and need some guidance. i am doing ok now and i can see it getting much better as the market continues to turn for the worst, but <strong>what i am doing with short sales in not sustainable</strong>. <strong>i am not going to get caught with my pants down like it did when the mortgage market blew up.</blockquote></strong>



Are you implying that short sales listings are going away soon in the near future?
 
[quote author="USCTrojanCPA" date=1254801051][quote author="sugarspunZ" date=1254799979][quote author="USCTrojanCPA" date=1254799032][quote author="sugarspunZ" date=1254798658]I have only been a realtor for about a year and a half. full time for about a year. prior to this i did mortgages from 02 to 07.

i dont have an area per say that i focus on. i focus on short sales in orange county where ever they may be. fortunately my team and i are very good at getting them closed. <strong>i do however plan on focusing on a geographic area in the future</strong>.</blockquote>
I think that is a great idea. A good realtor knows what they know and knows what they don't know.</blockquote>
i agree with you 100%. I have a few to many things on my plate right now. i am studying my butt off for the brokers exam next month.

what i really need to do is network and learn from some very successful realtors. i have a lot to learn about the business and need some guidance. i am doing ok now and i can see it getting much better as the market continues to turn for the worst, but what i am doing with short sales in not sustainable. i am not going to get caught with my pants down like it did when the mortgage market blew up.</blockquote>
Why are you getting your broker's license? Do you have you license hung at a large national chain? The reason why I ask is because there are several low/no split brokers out there which provides someone like myself with no incentive to get his broker's license.</blockquote>
i am with a large national chain and i am getting a very respectable split. it is just a goal for me to get my brokers license.
 
[quote author="reason" date=1254801313][quote author="sugarspunZ" date=1254799979][quote author="USCTrojanCPA" date=1254799032][quote author="sugarspunZ" date=1254798658]I have only been a realtor for about a year and a half. full time for about a year. prior to this i did mortgages from 02 to 07.

i dont have an area per say that i focus on. i focus on short sales in orange county where ever they may be. fortunately my team and i are very good at getting them closed. <strong>i do however plan on focusing on a geographic area in the future</strong>.</blockquote>
I think that is a great idea. A good realtor knows what they know and knows what they don't know.</blockquote>
i agree with you 100%. I have a few to many things on my plate right now. i am studying my butt off for the brokers exam next month.

what i really need to do is network and learn from some very successful realtors. i have a lot to learn about the business and need some guidance. i am doing ok now and i can see it getting much better as the market continues to turn for the worst, but <strong>what i am doing with short sales in not sustainable</strong>. <strong>i am not going to get caught with my pants down like it did when the mortgage market blew up.</blockquote></strong>



Are you implying that short sales listings are going away soon in the near future?</blockquote>
no not at all. in fact in the near future i think it is only going to get better. one fear of mine is that all of the loan mod douche bags are going to jump into my short sale pool and start muddying up the water. you would be amazed how much spam i get from "Short Sale Negotiation" companies. "Pay no fees" "Double your commission" etc... there are a few good ones but most are crap, are not structured properly, and are not compliant with the DRE and or State Bar. just like the loan mod scams they will get shut down and by default make it more difficult for people like me who are doing it correctly.
 
[quote author="sugarspunZ" date=1254809649][quote author="USCTrojanCPA" date=1254801051][quote author="sugarspunZ" date=1254799979][quote author="USCTrojanCPA" date=1254799032][quote author="sugarspunZ" date=1254798658]I have only been a realtor for about a year and a half. full time for about a year. prior to this i did mortgages from 02 to 07.

i dont have an area per say that i focus on. i focus on short sales in orange county where ever they may be. fortunately my team and i are very good at getting them closed. <strong>i do however plan on focusing on a geographic area in the future</strong>.</blockquote>
I think that is a great idea. A good realtor knows what they know and knows what they don't know.</blockquote>
i agree with you 100%. I have a few to many things on my plate right now. i am studying my butt off for the brokers exam next month.

what i really need to do is network and learn from some very successful realtors. i have a lot to learn about the business and need some guidance. i am doing ok now and i can see it getting much better as the market continues to turn for the worst, but what i am doing with short sales in not sustainable. i am not going to get caught with my pants down like it did when the mortgage market blew up.</blockquote>
Why are you getting your broker's license? Do you have you license hung at a large national chain? The reason why I ask is because there are several low/no split brokers out there which provides someone like myself with no incentive to get his broker's license.</blockquote>
i am with a large national chain and i am getting a very respectable split. it is just a goal for me to get my brokers license.</blockquote>
So you plan on continuing your work at the large national chain after getting your broker's license? What benefits do you feel that you get out of working at a large national broker that benefit you?
 
^honestly i am not sure. that is something i would want to talk to a seasoned realtor/broker about. ideally i would want to start my own brokerage and create my own brand, but i would also think that the name recognition of Coldwell Banker or First Team for example also has its benefits. i would guess that Joe Average would rather list with a known real estate company than Joe Blow Broker.

if you could shed some insight i would appreciate it.
 
[quote author="sugarspunZ" date=1254811434]^honestly i am not sure. that is something i would want to talk to a seasoned realtor/broker about. ideally i would want to start my own brokerage and create my own brand, but i would also think that the name recognition of Coldwell Banker or First Team for example also has its benefits. i would guess that Joe Average would rather list with a known real estate company than Joe Blow Broker.

if you could shed some insight i would appreciate it.</blockquote>
Sure Sugar, I can't really speak for the listing side as I primarily focus on the buy-side, at least for right now. I can see that some sellers would feel more comfy if they had a sign from one of those large national brokers on their lawn, but at the end of the day a good listing agent is a good listing agent. My personal opinion is that national brokers are great for those that need training wheels to get their feet wet with a lot of support. I may not have been a "realtor" for 10 years but I have that much experience working in the real estate industry (mainly on the commercial side) so I felt very comfy not needing the assistance a large national firm can provide newbie realtors. I also think that the work that you do and gain the praise of your clients will benefit you a lot more than being at a large broker. I rather reimburse my buyers that much more of the buy-side commission than have 20-40% of it go to a broker. You may be asking...when even work under any broker? Well, my broker takes care of the file retention and the E&O insurance plus I can hang both my Nevada and California licenses with him.
 
[quote author="sugarspunZ" date=1254810127][quote author="reason" date=1254801313][quote author="sugarspunZ" date=1254799979][quote author="USCTrojanCPA" date=1254799032][quote author="sugarspunZ" date=1254798658]I have only been a realtor for about a year and a half. full time for about a year. prior to this i did mortgages from 02 to 07.

i dont have an area per say that i focus on. i focus on short sales in orange county where ever they may be. fortunately my team and i are very good at getting them closed. <strong>i do however plan on focusing on a geographic area in the future</strong>.</blockquote>
I think that is a great idea. A good realtor knows what they know and knows what they don't know.</blockquote>
i agree with you 100%. I have a few to many things on my plate right now. i am studying my butt off for the brokers exam next month.

what i really need to do is network and learn from some very successful realtors. i have a lot to learn about the business and need some guidance. i am doing ok now and i can see it getting much better as the market continues to turn for the worst, but <strong>what i am doing with short sales in not sustainable</strong>. <strong>i am not going to get caught with my pants down like it did when the mortgage market blew up.</blockquote></strong>



Are you implying that short sales listings are going away soon in the near future?</blockquote>
no not at all. in fact in the near future i think it is only going to get better. one fear of mine is that all of <strong>the loan mod douche bags are going to jump into my short sale pool and start muddying up the water</strong>. you would be amazed how much spam i get from "Short Sale Negotiation" companies. "Pay no fees" "Double your commission" etc... there are a few good ones but most are crap, are not structured properly, and are not compliant with the DRE and or State Bar. just like the loan mod scams they will get shut down and by default make it more difficult for people like me who are doing it correctly.</blockquote>


Oh, please say it ain't so. Ugh!
 
[quote author="reason" date=1254813325][quote author="sugarspunZ" date=1254810127][quote author="reason" date=1254801313][quote author="sugarspunZ" date=1254799979][quote author="USCTrojanCPA" date=1254799032][quote author="sugarspunZ" date=1254798658]I have only been a realtor for about a year and a half. full time for about a year. prior to this i did mortgages from 02 to 07.

i dont have an area per say that i focus on. i focus on short sales in orange county where ever they may be. fortunately my team and i are very good at getting them closed. <strong>i do however plan on focusing on a geographic area in the future</strong>.</blockquote>
I think that is a great idea. A good realtor knows what they know and knows what they don't know.</blockquote>
i agree with you 100%. I have a few to many things on my plate right now. i am studying my butt off for the brokers exam next month.

what i really need to do is network and learn from some very successful realtors. i have a lot to learn about the business and need some guidance. i am doing ok now and i can see it getting much better as the market continues to turn for the worst, but <strong>what i am doing with short sales in not sustainable</strong>. <strong>i am not going to get caught with my pants down like it did when the mortgage market blew up.</blockquote></strong>



Are you implying that short sales listings are going away soon in the near future?</blockquote>
no not at all. in fact in the near future i think it is only going to get better. one fear of mine is that all of <strong>the loan mod douche bags are going to jump into my short sale pool and start muddying up the water</strong>. you would be amazed how much spam i get from "Short Sale Negotiation" companies. "Pay no fees" "Double your commission" etc... there are a few good ones but most are crap, are not structured properly, and are not compliant with the DRE and or State Bar. just like the loan mod scams they will get shut down and by default make it more difficult for people like me who are doing it correctly.</blockquote>


Oh, please say it ain't so. Ugh!</blockquote>
LOL not sure if you are being sarcastic or not but YES its SO. i have been pitched just about everything you can imagine from people trying to get my business. they are like snake oil sales men and the sad part is there are a ton of realtors and sellers who believe them.

nothing is guaranteed and nothing is free. if they are not disclosing how it is they are getting paid and if they guaranty they WILL get your short sale sold then RUN.

or if they are an investor paying cash and then flipping the house in a double escrow and you can double your commission be very wary. it can be done legally but in most cases the parties involved are not above board.
 
[quote author="sugarspunZ" date=1254814022][quote author="reason" date=1254813325][quote author="sugarspunZ" date=1254810127][quote author="reason" date=1254801313][quote author="sugarspunZ" date=1254799979][quote author="USCTrojanCPA" date=1254799032][quote author="sugarspunZ" date=1254798658]I have only been a realtor for about a year and a half. full time for about a year. prior to this i did mortgages from 02 to 07.

i dont have an area per say that i focus on. i focus on short sales in orange county where ever they may be. fortunately my team and i are very good at getting them closed. <strong>i do however plan on focusing on a geographic area in the future</strong>.</blockquote>
I think that is a great idea. A good realtor knows what they know and knows what they don't know.</blockquote>
i agree with you 100%. I have a few to many things on my plate right now. i am studying my butt off for the brokers exam next month.

what i really need to do is network and learn from some very successful realtors. i have a lot to learn about the business and need some guidance. i am doing ok now and i can see it getting much better as the market continues to turn for the worst, but <strong>what i am doing with short sales in not sustainable</strong>. <strong>i am not going to get caught with my pants down like it did when the mortgage market blew up.</blockquote></strong>



Are you implying that short sales listings are going away soon in the near future?</blockquote>
no not at all. in fact in the near future i think it is only going to get better. one fear of mine is that all of <strong>the loan mod douche bags are going to jump into my short sale pool and start muddying up the water</strong>. you would be amazed how much spam i get from "Short Sale Negotiation" companies. "Pay no fees" "Double your commission" etc... there are a few good ones but most are crap, are not structured properly, and are not compliant with the DRE and or State Bar. just like the loan mod scams they will get shut down and by default make it more difficult for people like me who are doing it correctly.</blockquote>


Oh, please say it ain't so. Ugh!</blockquote>
LOL not sure if you are being sarcastic or not but YES its SO. i have been pitched just about everything you can imagine from people trying to get my business. they are like snake oil sales men and the sad part is there are a ton of realtors and sellers who believe them.

nothing is guaranteed and nothing is free. if they are not disclosing how it is they are getting paid and if they guaranty they WILL get your short sale sold then RUN.

or if they are an investor paying cash and then flipping the house in a double escrow and you can double your commission be very wary. it can be done legally but in most cases the parties involved are not above board.</blockquote>


Sorry for being unclear. I was not being sarcastic. But you sound like you already have a good head on your shoulders. Thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge. Just be careful with TrojanmanCPA, he's a coupon wh0Re. haha!
 
[quote author="reason" date=1254815627][quote author="sugarspunZ" date=1254814022][quote author="reason" date=1254813325][quote author="sugarspunZ" date=1254810127][quote author="reason" date=1254801313][quote author="sugarspunZ" date=1254799979][quote author="USCTrojanCPA" date=1254799032][quote author="sugarspunZ" date=1254798658]I have only been a realtor for about a year and a half. full time for about a year. prior to this i did mortgages from 02 to 07.

i dont have an area per say that i focus on. i focus on short sales in orange county where ever they may be. fortunately my team and i are very good at getting them closed. <strong>i do however plan on focusing on a geographic area in the future</strong>.</blockquote>
I think that is a great idea. A good realtor knows what they know and knows what they don't know.</blockquote>
i agree with you 100%. I have a few to many things on my plate right now. i am studying my butt off for the brokers exam next month.

what i really need to do is network and learn from some very successful realtors. i have a lot to learn about the business and need some guidance. i am doing ok now and i can see it getting much better as the market continues to turn for the worst, but <strong>what i am doing with short sales in not sustainable</strong>. <strong>i am not going to get caught with my pants down like it did when the mortgage market blew up.</blockquote></strong>



Are you implying that short sales listings are going away soon in the near future?</blockquote>
no not at all. in fact in the near future i think it is only going to get better. one fear of mine is that all of <strong>the loan mod douche bags are going to jump into my short sale pool and start muddying up the water</strong>. you would be amazed how much spam i get from "Short Sale Negotiation" companies. "Pay no fees" "Double your commission" etc... there are a few good ones but most are crap, are not structured properly, and are not compliant with the DRE and or State Bar. just like the loan mod scams they will get shut down and by default make it more difficult for people like me who are doing it correctly.</blockquote>


Oh, please say it ain't so. Ugh!</blockquote>
LOL not sure if you are being sarcastic or not but YES its SO. i have been pitched just about everything you can imagine from people trying to get my business. they are like snake oil sales men and the sad part is there are a ton of realtors and sellers who believe them.

nothing is guaranteed and nothing is free. if they are not disclosing how it is they are getting paid and if they guaranty they WILL get your short sale sold then RUN.

or if they are an investor paying cash and then flipping the house in a double escrow and you can double your commission be very wary. it can be done legally but in most cases the parties involved are not above board.</blockquote>


Sorry for being unclear. I was not being sarcastic. But you sound like you already have a good head on your shoulders. Thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge. Just be careful with TrojanmanCPA, he's a coupon wh0Re. haha!</blockquote>
Coupons are not accepted in real estate transactions. :P
 
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