First time home buyers - Lessons learnt

venkat

New member
I wanted to start this thread, since we were first time home buyers and closing tomorrow. There were few lessons learnt, that could be helpful to others in the same boat. Please chip in your lessons as well, so that entire community will benefit from it:

1. Affordability : Calculate on what is the maximum you can afford both for monthly payments and down payment. Do not forget to include HOA, Property Taxes, Mello-Roos, HomeOwnersInsurance. If you are stretching the last yard to close a deal on a property you and family liked, get your agent involved and get him/her to agree upon some credit towards repairs and/or closing costs. It is important to understand that agents also want to close your deal to get their commission. We were not aware of such requests. Remember, agents will not come forward to offer - you have to ask for it!

2. Renting before purchase : If you are renting and going month-to-month (MTM), once you start escrow - give 30-day notice (typically) of intent to vacate. Whatever happens in escrow, you can always extend by a few days or go another month MTM or sign a contract. This saves lot of money (on an avg, irvine residents pay $40-50 as rent per day. 10 days would get you $ to buy new things for your home). If you are renting and breaking the lease, find out in advance how much is the penalty? Try to sub-rent it through your friends till contract end date (I am sure there are many websites for that too), so that you can save your penalty.

3. Repairs : If you are first time home buyer, like us you probably never visited home depot or lowes for anything other than buying flower pots and furniture. So repairs are critical for you (atleast they were for us), especially when you are buying resale. If sellers does not accept, making your agent responsible to take care of repairs is good idea - then you can just look over the end result and share comments.

4. Contingencies : Sellers would like to remove contingencies soon, so that even if something happens (like escrow falling out for some reason) - the earnest deposit (the deposit for down that you pay while opening escrow) is retained. So, until you are sure all the aspects (home inspection and repairs, appraisal, HOA document review, Seller disclosures review, preliminary title report review, HomeOwners hazard insurance) as complete and to your satisfaction - do not remove any contingencies.

5. Living area : Sq ft is approximate. Sometimes it could vary by 5-10% depending who measured it. Some may skip measuring closet space and some laundry area etc., Most dependable ones are from builders, the ones with floorplan. This may mean your price per sq ft will vary. Since you may have finalized your purchase price (contract with seller), by the time you are aware of actual sq ft -  you can bring it up with your agent if it is skewing some critical factors (such as price per sq ft) for your home purchase. There may be some credit that you could get, but mostly explanation. Appraisal report will show sq ft, but that could potentially be different from MLS and/or builder floor plan sq ft. They are mostly in 5-10% variation range. Appalling, but true!

More to follow...
 
Any tips on the type of recommended coverage for home owners insurance for a new home?
noob here  ;D
 
6. Home Warranty and Home owners insurance (also called hazard insurance) : Make sure seller buys you home warranty (that covers any repairs that come-up after taking possession (there could be some exceptions in the policy). That should be good for one year, renewable after that. HO Insurance covers rebuilding property in case of fire (in SFR you own the land, so property dwelling has to be built in a total loss scenario, not sure how it works for condos!). For HO Insurance, shop at atleast 3 providers and get the best premium/coverage/deductible policy. $1000 deductible seems reasonable. Dwelling coverage, you can arrive at using appraisal report that specifies land value and dwelling value separately. There are others like personal property (diamond necklaces etc.,), loss of use (hotel while house is being built), liability (law suits), etc., that typically accompany a policy.

7. Parties involved : There are many parties involved in a real-estate transaction. Key ones are buyer, seller, mortgage broker, lender, buyer RE agent, seller RE agent, escrow officer, appraiser, homeinspector, termite company, title officer, loan officer. Most of the communication happens through RE agents, but there may be a chance that some of the items are filtered out while passing the communication. If possible, talk directly to the end person - not necessarily agent (but keep them in loop). Buyer chooses mortgage broker/lender and home inspector; seller chooses escrow and termite company; mortgage broker chooses lender; lender chooses appraiser; escrow officer chooses title officer but can be influenced by seller/buyer; Sooner you talk to sellers, better it is - since they know everything about the house. But some regulations may not allow the same - esp in CA.

8. Questions? : No question is silly. There is one word for you being first time home buyer - ASK. You have nothing to loose (may be few hours) and this is one of the biggest milestones of your life. Most people would understand. Do some (internet) research before/after asking question - so that you are informed and not taking what they say. There are some instances that we realized after the fact that we should have asked for it.

9. Interest Rate : This links back to calculating what you could afford. RE agents generally refer their buyers to a mortgage broker or lender. Mortgage broker is like a middleman between buyer and lender (actual bank that lends loan money). Get interest rate quotes with atleast 2 Mort. brokers or lenders. That way you can compare. Talk to mortgage broker or lender in parallel to your search for property. That way they can pre-qualify and pre-approve you for the highest price that you could afford. With rates fluctuating how do you calculate the highest price you could afford? You could take current rate and average rate along with potential HOA/Tax/MelloRoos/HOI and come up with approx price. Try to stretch the monthly payment, so you know what is threshold and STOP. Now you know the range of price for the property you want to purchase. Look for lowest point in interest rate (eg.http://www.bankrate.com/funnel/graph/)and LOCK at Zero points and at no locking charge. Zero points mean you dont have to pay anything to lender/broker to fund the loan (1 point on $100K property means you have to pay $1000 to the lender). Some lenders want commitment before locking, then look for someone who will lock for no charge hoping for your business and who will honour if the rates go down (typically they have go down by some points to honour). 45-day lock is preferred and it inerts you from increasing rates during those 45 days. Ask them if making it impound a/c (you pay taxes/melloroos every month instead of twice a year), will reduce the interest rate - some lenders do that (since they may invest that impounded money into their own ventures for 5 months and 6 month they pay off). Always, prefer 30-year fixed (learnt that 20 years ago rates were ~12%), that inerts you from rate increases 5 or 10 years from purchase.

10. Home Inspection : Choose locally (eg. CREIA) certified home inspectors. Talk to some references before committing. Also you dont want buyer agent or seller agent influence home inspection. Talk to home inspector one-on-one and ask him to be brutally honest in his inspection and point out all the existing and potential hazards, safety things etc., That list makes your repair request bulge, then you can request seller to fix. If they dont, prioritize your request based on safety and cost of items and get seller to fix the main ones. For others - get an estimate to fix those repairs and ASK for agents (buyer agent and seller agent) to bear the costs. Negotiate, so that you have pay minimum. For resale of old homes, there may be wear and tear issues - So you have to be sure which items are absolutely must and make a case for them.

More to follow...
 
TustinRanchResident said:
5. Living area Sq ft is approximate. Sometimes it could vary by 5-10% depending who measured it. Some may skip measuring closet space and some laundry area etc., Most dependable ones are from builders, the ones with floorplan. This may mean your price per sq ft will vary. Since you may have finalized your purchase price (contract with seller), by the time you are aware of actual sq ft -  you can bring it up with your agent if it is skewing some critical factors (such as price per sq ft) for your home purchase. There may be some credit that you could get, but mostly explanation. Appraisal report will show sq ft, but that could potentially be different from MLS and/or builder floor plan sq ft. They are mostly in 5-10% variation range. Appalling, but true!

I've always wondered about this one.  For my property, the builder listed the sq ft a bit lower (5%) than what appraiser and county has my place listed as.  I'm surprised I don't see more neighbors bump up the square footage when reselling their house.  I know I will!
 
11. Fees, Fees : You are likely to be caught by surprise (atleast I was), that you are asked to pay for various fees during closing that you dont know the reason they exist. It goes back to that one word - ASK. Question all the fees and make sure to understand what they are for. There may be some fees that you could avoid, if you know their purpose. Some samples are : Title Messenger fee - Fee to carry deed papers from escrow office to title office, if you are local you can drop off yourself in 30 min and a gallon gas (if both offices are in OC, which is typical) instead of $100. Notary fee, go to escrow office to sign - so it is less. Courier fee - $100 asking for if it is something you could take care (pick and drop docs twice during escrow duration) and save $200. Credit report fee - come-on lender/mort broker should waive this. Lender Origination Fee - ask them to break it down (to underwriting, loan administration, loan processing) and understand where they can be reduced. If not, ASK for some lender credit. Other fees include Endorsement fee, sub escrow fee etc.,

12. Estimated Closing costs : Per regulation, lenders/mort brokers have to give GFE (Good Faith Estimate) to borrower before submitting for loan. GFE is nothing but lender will "estimate" all the costs for buyer. Per regulation, if GFE numbers are lower than actuals - Lender/mortgage broker has to pay the diff. Hence all they do is bump up the numbers by almost 50% for all fees that are beyond their control (like escrow fee, lenders title policy, owner title policy, HO Insurance, Tax Transfers service etc.,). On the top of that they add various paddings like escrow pad, refundable buffer pad etc., It seemed (atleast for us), that there is no limit for ramping-up the "estimates" and buyers are asked to sign. Most people will be apprehensive on signing something that shows higher numbers than actuals, by 50%. But ASK as to how much of it is the buffered $. Durig the end of escrow, everyone is given HUD-1 statement, that is supposedly more accurate. However, even that is estimate - because actual HUD-1 is given only AFTER closing. Essentially escrow officer does not want to close short, meaning most of those buffers will be credited and sent as cheque as you move-in. As long as you feel comfortable after understanding what you are paying for - you should be good to sign. Based on HUD-1 estimates buyer has to send money which will then be combined with lenders loan and payoffs happen to all parties involved (like sellers' old loan, seller, seller agent, buyer agent, escrow, title etc.,). However, buyer pays for home inspection and appraisal (and seller pays for termite report/fix) before any of this final payoff happens. Hence those are not part of closing costs.

13. Who pays for what : (http://www.chicagotitleconnection.com/Images2005/PDF/whopays.pdf) RE agents commission is ~2.5% (buyer agent 2.5 and seller agent 2.5) and seller pays for it; Lender/mortgage brokers' commission is 1% and thats from Lender directly and some from origination fee that buyer pays. These are standard unless specified otherwise in contract (finalized offer/counter offer between seller and buyer). If you know of a escrow company (that your cousin works or some sort and can get better deal or possible credit), be sure to counter in the offer to use that escrow company. Usually seller chooses escrow, but if it has to be influenced by buyer it needs to be counter offer.

14. Paper work : Do NOT be afraid of paper work. There are many disclosures to read, many docs to sign. Once escrow starts, you have time to go over the docs and get them signed (Choose electronic signing - eg. DocuSign). If you get overwhelmed, ASK your agent to quickly help you understand the key points in each page. Seller disclosures (where seller discloses about the house - such as some death happened at the house in past 3 years, A/C was changed recently etc.,) need to be read carefully - as it is one of the contingency for buyer to remove. HOA documents are interesting to read - look for what $ and when is your HOA due. Halfway through escrow - we found that HOA dues are a $7 higher than stated in MLS!! Read Preliminary Title Report to make sure of your property free of any issues, property lines, tract, neighbourhood etc., If you have attorney, you can ask that person to take a look as well (I know most people will not have dedicated attorney, atleast I dont. But if you have, thats extra fee!).

15. Closing Date and Final Walkthrough : Closing Date is the date you will start paying mortgage/hoa/taxes/melloroos in your life, that typically is 30 days from escrow start date (but can be modified if both buyers and sellers agree later). If your close date is 5/15, mortgage starts from 5/15 not from 5/16. Typically, seller asks for 3 days of courtesy stay in the house before they move-out (its stated in very first offer to the property and therefore part of contract). Final Walk through is done 2-3 days before closing, that mean almost 6 days before seller moves out. It is a little bit risk and at the same time, it is unavoidable. Hence better to be on good side of sellers (as IR says "attract more bees with honey than vinegar"). If they break or ruin something while they are moving out, you can always ASK - but there is no liability for any party involved - as the transaction is done! This time I went to Home Depot to buy measuring tape (for measuring dimensions for new appliances) and electricty tester (to check GFCI plugs)!! Welcome to being home owner!! Get the checklist from internet (I used one from closing.com) and follow instructions. Do all the things that you did when home inspection was conducted. Check the repairs that were supposedly complete first and then talk to seller taking from room to room and understand their opinion on each room. Understand landscape maintenance, trash day, water heater settings, A/C, Heater operating, various appliances in house, any specifics from seller. That gives some kind of warranty for you (atleast it did for me), get their contact details, connect with them on facebook/linkedin and keep the ASK door open (only when needed :).

Get rest of the repairs/setup done (here you may need ideas from talkirvine.com members) and move-in. Enjoy your home!

These are 15 lessons, atleast the most important ones that I thought would be useful to most first time home buyers. Please add more, as some of you experienced folks know more.
 
ch said:
Any tips on the type of recommended coverage for home owners insurance for a new home?
noob here  ;D

depends if you are in a condo or a SFR.  Condo = ask your association your questions regarding the coverage.  HO6 covers condo associations.  you can get condo insurance for contents.  the cost of HO6 insurance is part of your condo HOA. 

SFR = standard HO policy.  Up to you on how much you want to spend.  HO1 not recommended...  I'm not an insurance agent but I think HO3 covers more and HO5 is even more.  Check your exclusions vs. "all perils" which also varies depending on geog location.  I think everyone I know has HO3.  Make sure you have actual cost coverage so if something happens, you don't get short changed.  Lastly, if you are worth at least something, get an excess liability policy (its cheap).  if you bundle your insurance you can match underlying limits.   
 
Do you mind if I ask if you did FHA or Conventional?  Do you know the down payment requirements for a conventional loan on a townhome?
 
Lallo said:
Do you mind if I ask if you did FHA or Conventional?  Do you know the down payment requirements for a conventional loan on a townhome?

I think for any conventional loans it's 20% down unless you want Mortgage Insurance. 
 
Lallo said:
Do you mind if I ask if you did FHA or Conventional?  Do you know the down payment requirements for a conventional loan on a townhome?
Trying to remember what SGIP told me but most loans require 20% down. FHA you can go 3.5% down but if it's a townhome or condo, it needs to be FHA approved. SFRs are usually qualified by being an SFR.

There may be some lower down loans but have some type of requirement like being bank owned or Fannie owned or something like that.

The days of low or no down from anyone are behind us... FHA is the new sugar daddy.
 
great post!  would love to see similar list for short sale as it feels like the real deals are in that market

i cant comprehend how sq ft can vary so much - cant their be an official methodology for measuring the real estate code and every one has to adhere to that standard?

off topic but with the discussion on FHA, wanted to understand if there was benefit going FHA if you had the 20% down.  with 20% down, you will tie up more liquid cash in the house but you have a better interest rate and no mortgage insurance or similar. 
 
Lallo said:
Do you mind if I ask if you did FHA or Conventional?  Do you know the down payment requirements for a conventional loan on a townhome?

Conventional Uninsured (Jumbo). To make monthly payments affordable, we went 20% down - hence uninsured (no mortgage insurance). I wish we could go 40% down to reduce it even more, but remember we are first time home buyers (and also not foreign cash buyers) - so no equity from earlier houses like other seasoned home-buyers.
 
TustinRanchResident said:
Conventional Uninsured (Jumbo). To make monthly payments affordable, we went 20% down - hence uninsured (no mortgage insurance). I wish we could go 40% down to reduce it even more, but remember we are first time home buyers (and also not foreign cash buyers) - so no equity from earlier houses like other seasoned home-buyers.
But AZDave says all down payments have to come from equity flips, not prudent savings or other means.

/sarcasm
 
irvinehomeowner said:
TustinRanchResident said:
Conventional Uninsured (Jumbo). To make monthly payments affordable, we went 20% down - hence uninsured (no mortgage insurance). I wish we could go 40% down to reduce it even more, but remember we are first time home buyers (and also not foreign cash buyers) - so no equity from earlier houses like other seasoned home-buyers.
But AZDave says all down payments have to come from equity flips, not prudent savings or other means.

/sarcasm

Not sure who AZDave is. In Irvine and Tustin Ranch, it is known fact that FCB (per IHO - Foreign Cash Buyers) are prevalent. Equity buyers are also as prevalant as FCB. So, first time home buyers - be ware and be prepared to go 20% down. When you see the house you like, you want to go all guns blazing to get it.

I understand sellers will get 100%, whether buyer goes 3.5% down or 20% down. But being first time home buyer you want to be doing affordability math - for which % down is a great influencer. Also, proof of funds will help seller to make decision in your favour in case if they have multiple offers.
 
Higher downs do make an offer stronger but you may still want to consider FHA (with 20% down) due to its assumability (sp?).

Not sure if rates are better or worse for FHA (I would assume worse because they allow lower FICO ratings) but SGIP can drop that knowledge here when he has time.

As for who AZDave is, his theory on why down payments average 40% in Irvine (based on 2009 figures and my first 3 months of research in 2010) is because all these buyers are equity flips. The problem with that is what kind of equity does a 24-year old couple have buying that $500k condo in Irvine with all cash?
 
Rates are often better for FHA loans than Conventional due to the Agencies adding risk based costs to the loan price.

FHA insured loans do not have FICO hits. Because of this even if you have a 659 FICO your rate is as good as someone with a 790 FICO. I do not support what FICO represents. It's a machine taking data and expressing a judgement about your credit worthyness. Robots should not be granted those powers. Those same robots (most of them of the Bender type) said high FICO scores in 2003-2007 vintage loans had a lower chance of default. We all know how that worked out. I don't care if a person gets a good rate using FHA even though their score is low. The "why" question - "why is the score low?" is more important than the score itself. 


I'd not suggest taking an FHA 30 fixed with 20% down, but there are some reasons to consider an FHA 15 fixed with 10-20% down. Here's a comparison.

I'll assume a 739 FICO.

Conventional 15 fixed base rate: 4.0% for 1.0 point. Add to fee .75 for attached and .50 for FICO. That 4.0% 15 year rate is now costing 2.25 points. Most borrowers will raise the rate to absorb the fee hits which puts the rate up to about 4.25% for 1.0 point net fee.

FHA 15 fixed base rate is 4.0% for .375 point. Yes, there is an Up Front Mortgage Insurance Premium fee of 1.0 point also so really, the FHA 15 fixed is a 1.375% comparable cost to obtain. 2.25 or 1.375.... hmmmm.... not too hard of a decision there. 

With the FHA loan you have an assumable mortgage, but you may have it paid off before you sell.  If your budget can handle it, the same terms apply with as little as 10% down. This means 10% down, no PMI (It's called Monthly Mortgage Insurance - MMI on FHA insured loans) and a lower rate than a conventional loan.

You can put less than 20% down for an attached home and finance the property on a conventional loan. The two problems are the .75 fee charged by the Agencies on attached condos, and getting Conventional Private Mortgage Insurance (PMI). The PMI companies look very hard at the HOA's today, much closer than the lenders are. An MI company called PMI recently added Orange County back onto it's list of distressed property zones. This means that PMI won't insure attached properties without 10-15% down, super high FICO scores, and a squeaky clean HOA. Since PMI did this, I'm guessing other Mortgage Insurance companies will follow.

Ever tighter the screws are turning.

My .02c


Soylent Green Is People
 
I understand sellers will get 100%, whether buyer goes 3.5% down or 20% down. But being first time home buyer you want to be doing affordability math - for which % down is a great influencer. Also, proof of funds will help seller to make decision in your favour in case if they have multiple offers.

This is a good point but assume the seller has accepted your offer.  Now its time for the loan and what is the best course of action.

My wife and I are fortunate enough to be able to pay cash for a house and our incomes support the minimum down so we have ability to put as little or as lot towards the downpayment.  I have no interest in putting a bulk of my liquid savings into 1 property but at same time, I feel odd putting 3% and paying so much in interest and mortgage insurance.  Hence, I am looking for the right balance and figuring out what type of loan to take.  And AZDave is completely wrong when he thinks everyone is equity flips.  I have stated this in the old forums - I come from savings oriented family and our savings is the result of my wife?s and my job.  Many of my friends are similar in this regard and have lots of cash savings at their disposal.  We arent FCB or equity flips or parents helping us.  But thats another topic all together.

SGIP -thank you for detailed analysis.  I just went to Amerisave and plugged in a loan amount of $400K with $200K down for house/townhouse.  Their ?All Lender Fees & Points? column isn?t the same for conventional and FHA so picked the closest 2:

4.500%  $2,027  - 30 year fixed with $1,011 in fees
4.500%  $2,330  - 30 year FHA with $333 in fees

3.750%  $2,909  - 15 year fixed with $1,723 in fees
3.875%  $2,963  - 15 year FHA with $1,421 in fees

Clearly on the 30 year loan, spending $700 extra results in $300 savings per month so conventional > FHA.  On the 15, it?s a smaller benefit.  Both cases, conventional better than FHA.  However, with 10% down, the FHA seems to be cheaper.  So whats the right thing to do?  Put 10% and get FHA or put 20%+ and get conventional?  Pay cash, take 15 year loan, take 30 year loan? 
 
Sgip, why do you not recommend fha for 30 yr fixed? Is it because the APR is too high by comparison? I do not understand why Amerisave shows similar rates and fees between conventional and fha / referring to post above. Wherever I check rates such as Wells (https://www.wellsfargo.com/mortgage/rates/) they show a half percent difference between fha and conventional. Same when I check other sites. The half percent difference would be a big negating factor to me.

 
On FHA vs Conv... although the rate is the same or lower for FHA... the APR seems to be higher... at least that's what I see.

But again... I'm not Soylent.
 
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