CCW in the OC

[davenlei]

I saw an article in the OC Register stating that Sheriff Hutchins is changing the rules and not requiring the 'good cause' portion to require anything more than a statement of "Personal Protection" since San Diego County lost the suit regarding CCW restrictions. 

I took a look at the requirements now and they seem reasonable (Application with a <$200 fee, extensive background check, psychological evaluation, 16 hours firearm course).

Of course it can all be reversed if the 9th circuit court of appeals (very liberal leaning per Wiki) overturns the ruling or places a stay on the ruling.  San Diego County has until 2/24 to file the appeal.

So who is going to apply for one?

 

[Irvinecommuter]

I saw an article in the OC Register stating that Sheriff Hutchins is changing the rules and not requiring the 'good cause' portion to require anything more than a statement of "Personal Protection" since San Diego County lost the suit regarding CCW restrictions. 

I took a look at the requirements now and they seem reasonable (Application with a <$200 fee, extensive background check, psychological evaluation, 16 hours firearm course).

Of course it can all be reversed if the 9th circuit court of appeals (very liberal leaning per Wiki) overturns the ruling or places a stay on the ruling.  San Diego County has until 2/24 to file the appeal.

So who is going to apply for one?

Definitely not me.  The thought of people being allowed to carry concealed weapon scare the heck out of me and pretty much smacks me as paranoia.

As for the legal side, the 9th Circuit Court is the one that struck down the restrictions...it would have to either go to an en banc hearing or to the USSC.

 

[davenlei]

Ah, thanks for the correction regarding the courts.

I would be more comfortable with law abiding CCW holders who had to go through background, psychological and training to have guns than only 'law breakers' and/or trouble makers carrying guns.

A friend who lives out of state (used to live in SoCal) got his CCW.  He said that he does carry occasionally but a part of taking the classes and training really pounded it in his head that if you pull your gun, you will most likely get detained/arrested until the law figures out if you were in a justifiable situation to brandish your weapon and if you actually fire your weapon, you will spend some time in detainment/jail until they release or charge you and you will most likely get sued by the person (or their family) that you shoot as well as the property owner and whoever else you make pee their pants even if it is justifiable.

So I don't think having CC holders around you is going to create a wild west scenario since they know what the consequences are of even flashing their weapon.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Ah, thanks for the correction regarding the courts.

I would be more comfortable with law abiding CCW holders who had to go through background, psychological and training to have guns than only 'law breakers' and/or trouble makers carrying guns.

A friend who lives out of state (used to live in SoCal) got his CCW.  He said that he does carry occasionally but a part of taking the classes and training really pounded it in his head that if you pull your gun, you will most likely get detained/arrested until the law figures out if you were in a justifiable situation to brandish your weapon and if you actually fire your weapon, you will spend some time in detainment/jail until they release or charge you and you will most likely get sued by the person (or their family) that you shoot as well as the property owner and whoever else you make pee their pants even if it is justifiable.

So I don't think having CC holders around you is going to create a wild west scenario since they know what the consequences are of even flashing their weapon.

That's the thing...what is the likelihood of you running into a situation where you need a gun?  Especially in a place like Orange County? 

And if you do, 80% of the time, the presence of a gun makes things worse, not better. 

That's not to mention that there is a significant portion of those people who want to carry concealed weapon have a superhero complex and them having guns make it 100000X worse.

 

[davenlei]

Ah, thanks for the correction regarding the courts.

I would be more comfortable with law abiding CCW holders who had to go through background, psychological and training to have guns than only 'law breakers' and/or trouble makers carrying guns.

A friend who lives out of state (used to live in SoCal) got his CCW.  He said that he does carry occasionally but a part of taking the classes and training really pounded it in his head that if you pull your gun, you will most likely get detained/arrested until the law figures out if you were in a justifiable situation to brandish your weapon and if you actually fire your weapon, you will spend some time in detainment/jail until they release or charge you and you will most likely get sued by the person (or their family) that you shoot as well as the property owner and whoever else you make pee their pants even if it is justifiable.

So I don't think having CC holders around you is going to create a wild west scenario since they know what the consequences are of even flashing their weapon.

That's the thing...what is the likelihood of you running into a situation where you need a gun?  Especially in a place like Orange County? 

And if you do, 80% of the time, the presence of a gun makes things worse, not better. 

That's not to mention that there is a significant portion of those people who want to carry concealed weapon have a superhero complex and them having guns make it 100000X worse.

Having a CCW is not for everyone and not everyone will encounter having a gun pulled on you or get robbed but you can't say it does not happen.  I have had a gun pulled on me and pointed in my face when I was robbed many years ago.  I was made to lie on the ground face down and thought I was going to be executed.  During the 10 minute ordeal there were several instances where the robber was distracted or left far enough out of the way from viewing distance (but not far enough to run away) only to come back threatening us.  If I had a weapon I would have at least felt I had a fighting chance during those 'distracted' times rather than lie there waiting to see if he felt like leaving witnesses who can identify him or deciding to put a bullet in the back of my head.  Luckily he got spooked and ran away when he heard some noises coming from another area.  This was not a "bad area" where it happened.

Saying that 80% of the time presence of a gun makes things worse is incorrect.  I would say it makes it worse 100% of the time because only the bad guy will have the gun.  A CCW holder should know that they are not there to be the police and to 'uphold the law'.  They should only have it available to defend themselves if they are in a life and death situation.  If someone decides to be robocop, they should NOT have a CCW.

I understand that there is a group of people that gravitate towards guns that may have a superhero complex but it is quite a statement to say there is a 'significant' portion that are like that who want a CCW.  Honestly the people who have the superhero complex probably already carry illegally without the extensive background, psychological or training so I don't know what would be worse.  I know a few people that have CCW's or are seriously thinking about applying and I don't consider any of them having superhero or rambo issues.

 

[iacrenter]

Ah, thanks for the correction regarding the courts.

I would be more comfortable with law abiding CCW holders who had to go through background, psychological and training to have guns than only 'law breakers' and/or trouble makers carrying guns.

A friend who lives out of state (used to live in SoCal) got his CCW.  He said that he does carry occasionally but a part of taking the classes and training really pounded it in his head that if you pull your gun, you will most likely get detained/arrested until the law figures out if you were in a justifiable situation to brandish your weapon and if you actually fire your weapon, you will spend some time in detainment/jail until they release or charge you and you will most likely get sued by the person (or their family) that you shoot as well as the property owner and whoever else you make pee their pants even if it is justifiable.

So I don't think having CC holders around you is going to create a wild west scenario since they know what the consequences are of even flashing their weapon.

That's the thing...what is the likelihood of you running into a situation where you need a gun?  Especially in a place like Orange County? 

And if you do, 80% of the time, the presence of a gun makes things worse, not better. 

That's not to mention that there is a significant portion of those people who want to carry concealed weapon have a superhero complex and them having guns make it 100000X worse.

As opposed to the 3x felon or local drug dealer who carries a concealed weapon illegally, has no training, and no background check.

I would rather have an educated, legally armed, and licensed public than one that is defenseless against criminals.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Ah, thanks for the correction regarding the courts.

I would be more comfortable with law abiding CCW holders who had to go through background, psychological and training to have guns than only 'law breakers' and/or trouble makers carrying guns.

A friend who lives out of state (used to live in SoCal) got his CCW.  He said that he does carry occasionally but a part of taking the classes and training really pounded it in his head that if you pull your gun, you will most likely get detained/arrested until the law figures out if you were in a justifiable situation to brandish your weapon and if you actually fire your weapon, you will spend some time in detainment/jail until they release or charge you and you will most likely get sued by the person (or their family) that you shoot as well as the property owner and whoever else you make pee their pants even if it is justifiable.

So I don't think having CC holders around you is going to create a wild west scenario since they know what the consequences are of even flashing their weapon.

That's the thing...what is the likelihood of you running into a situation where you need a gun?  Especially in a place like Orange County? 

And if you do, 80% of the time, the presence of a gun makes things worse, not better. 

That's not to mention that there is a significant portion of those people who want to carry concealed weapon have a superhero complex and them having guns make it 100000X worse.

Having a CCW is not for everyone and not everyone will encounter having a gun pulled on you or get robbed but you can't say it does not happen.  I have had a gun pulled on me and pointed in my face when I was robbed many years ago.  I was made to lie on the ground face down and thought I was going to be executed.  During the 10 minute ordeal there were several instances where the robber was distracted or left far enough out of the way from viewing distance (but not far enough to run away) only to come back threatening us.  If I had a weapon I would have at least felt I had a fighting chance during those 'distracted' times rather than lie there waiting to see if he felt like leaving witnesses who can identify him or deciding to put a bullet in the back of my head.  Luckily he got spooked and ran away when he heard some noises coming from another area.  This was not a "bad area" where it happened.

Saying that 80% of the time presence of a gun makes things worse is incorrect.  I would say it makes it worse 100% of the time because only the bad guy will have the gun.  A CCW holder should know that they are not there to be the police and to 'uphold the law'.  They should only have it available to defend themselves if they are in a life and death situation.  If someone decides to be robocop, they should NOT have a CCW.

I understand that there is a group of people that gravitate towards guns that may have a superhero complex but it is quite a statement to say there is a 'significant' portion that are like that who want a CCW.  Honestly the people who have the superhero complex probably already carry illegally without the extensive background, psychological or training so I don't know what would be worse.  I know a few people that have CCW's or are seriously thinking about applying and I don't consider any of them having superhero or rambo issues.

 

Do you really think that things would have ended up better had you had a gun?  Had you had a gun, things would have escalated and a good chance that one of the two of you (if not both) would have been shot. 

Not to mention most violent crimes are committed by individuals known to the victim (I believe the estimate was about 70%). 

You have about a 1 in 1500 chance of being involved in a violent crime in Irvine.
http://www.firstteam.com/blog/top-1...-that-would-make-martin-luther-king-jr-proud/

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Ah, thanks for the correction regarding the courts.

I would be more comfortable with law abiding CCW holders who had to go through background, psychological and training to have guns than only 'law breakers' and/or trouble makers carrying guns.

A friend who lives out of state (used to live in SoCal) got his CCW.  He said that he does carry occasionally but a part of taking the classes and training really pounded it in his head that if you pull your gun, you will most likely get detained/arrested until the law figures out if you were in a justifiable situation to brandish your weapon and if you actually fire your weapon, you will spend some time in detainment/jail until they release or charge you and you will most likely get sued by the person (or their family) that you shoot as well as the property owner and whoever else you make pee their pants even if it is justifiable.

So I don't think having CC holders around you is going to create a wild west scenario since they know what the consequences are of even flashing their weapon.

That's the thing...what is the likelihood of you running into a situation where you need a gun?  Especially in a place like Orange County? 

And if you do, 80% of the time, the presence of a gun makes things worse, not better. 

That's not to mention that there is a significant portion of those people who want to carry concealed weapon have a superhero complex and them having guns make it 100000X worse.

As opposed to the 3x felon or local drug dealer who carries a concealed weapon illegally, has no training, and no background check.

I would rather have an educated, legally armed, and licensed public than one that is defenseless against criminals.

I have no idea how the CCW law would affect the former.

 

[iacrenter]

Ah, thanks for the correction regarding the courts.

I would be more comfortable with law abiding CCW holders who had to go through background, psychological and training to have guns than only 'law breakers' and/or trouble makers carrying guns.

A friend who lives out of state (used to live in SoCal) got his CCW.  He said that he does carry occasionally but a part of taking the classes and training really pounded it in his head that if you pull your gun, you will most likely get detained/arrested until the law figures out if you were in a justifiable situation to brandish your weapon and if you actually fire your weapon, you will spend some time in detainment/jail until they release or charge you and you will most likely get sued by the person (or their family) that you shoot as well as the property owner and whoever else you make pee their pants even if it is justifiable.

So I don't think having CC holders around you is going to create a wild west scenario since they know what the consequences are of even flashing their weapon.

That's the thing...what is the likelihood of you running into a situation where you need a gun?  Especially in a place like Orange County? 

And if you do, 80% of the time, the presence of a gun makes things worse, not better. 

That's not to mention that there is a significant portion of those people who want to carry concealed weapon have a superhero complex and them having guns make it 100000X worse.

Having a CCW is not for everyone and not everyone will encounter having a gun pulled on you or get robbed but you can't say it does not happen.  I have had a gun pulled on me and pointed in my face when I was robbed many years ago.  I was made to lie on the ground face down and thought I was going to be executed.  During the 10 minute ordeal there were several instances where the robber was distracted or left far enough out of the way from viewing distance (but not far enough to run away) only to come back threatening us.  If I had a weapon I would have at least felt I had a fighting chance during those 'distracted' times rather than lie there waiting to see if he felt like leaving witnesses who can identify him or deciding to put a bullet in the back of my head.  Luckily he got spooked and ran away when he heard some noises coming from another area.  This was not a "bad area" where it happened.

Saying that 80% of the time presence of a gun makes things worse is incorrect.  I would say it makes it worse 100% of the time because only the bad guy will have the gun.  A CCW holder should know that they are not there to be the police and to 'uphold the law'.  They should only have it available to defend themselves if they are in a life and death situation.  If someone decides to be robocop, they should NOT have a CCW.

I understand that there is a group of people that gravitate towards guns that may have a superhero complex but it is quite a statement to say there is a 'significant' portion that are like that who want a CCW.  Honestly the people who have the superhero complex probably already carry illegally without the extensive background, psychological or training so I don't know what would be worse.  I know a few people that have CCW's or are seriously thinking about applying and I don't consider any of them having superhero or rambo issues.

 

Do you really think that things would have ended up better had you had a gun?  Had you had a gun, things would have escalated and a good chance that one of the two of you (if not both) would have been shot. 

Not to mention most violent crimes are committed by individuals known to the victim (I believe the estimate was about 70%). 

You have about a 1 in 1500 chance of being involved in a violent crime in Irvine.
http://www.firstteam.com/blog/top-1...-that-would-make-martin-luther-king-jr-proud/

Then the ONLY logical solution would be to ban ALL guns in your scenario. You simply need 2/3 of Congress to propose repealing the 2nd Amendment and then you just need 3/4 of state legislatures to ratify it.

 

[iacrenter]

Ah, thanks for the correction regarding the courts.

I would be more comfortable with law abiding CCW holders who had to go through background, psychological and training to have guns than only 'law breakers' and/or trouble makers carrying guns.

A friend who lives out of state (used to live in SoCal) got his CCW.  He said that he does carry occasionally but a part of taking the classes and training really pounded it in his head that if you pull your gun, you will most likely get detained/arrested until the law figures out if you were in a justifiable situation to brandish your weapon and if you actually fire your weapon, you will spend some time in detainment/jail until they release or charge you and you will most likely get sued by the person (or their family) that you shoot as well as the property owner and whoever else you make pee their pants even if it is justifiable.

So I don't think having CC holders around you is going to create a wild west scenario since they know what the consequences are of even flashing their weapon.

That's the thing...what is the likelihood of you running into a situation where you need a gun?  Especially in a place like Orange County? 

And if you do, 80% of the time, the presence of a gun makes things worse, not better. 

That's not to mention that there is a significant portion of those people who want to carry concealed weapon have a superhero complex and them having guns make it 100000X worse.

As opposed to the 3x felon or local drug dealer who carries a concealed weapon illegally, has no training, and no background check.

I would rather have an educated, legally armed, and licensed public than one that is defenseless against criminals.

I have no idea how the CCW law would affect the former.

Until you are able to totally disarm EVERYONE in society, an armed, educated, licensed, and law abiding public is a good deterrence for those looking to do you harm.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

qwerty can relax.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Ah, thanks for the correction regarding the courts.

I would be more comfortable with law abiding CCW holders who had to go through background, psychological and training to have guns than only 'law breakers' and/or trouble makers carrying guns.

A friend who lives out of state (used to live in SoCal) got his CCW.  He said that he does carry occasionally but a part of taking the classes and training really pounded it in his head that if you pull your gun, you will most likely get detained/arrested until the law figures out if you were in a justifiable situation to brandish your weapon and if you actually fire your weapon, you will spend some time in detainment/jail until they release or charge you and you will most likely get sued by the person (or their family) that you shoot as well as the property owner and whoever else you make pee their pants even if it is justifiable.

So I don't think having CC holders around you is going to create a wild west scenario since they know what the consequences are of even flashing their weapon.

That's the thing...what is the likelihood of you running into a situation where you need a gun?  Especially in a place like Orange County? 

And if you do, 80% of the time, the presence of a gun makes things worse, not better. 

That's not to mention that there is a significant portion of those people who want to carry concealed weapon have a superhero complex and them having guns make it 100000X worse.

As opposed to the 3x felon or local drug dealer who carries a concealed weapon illegally, has no training, and no background check.

I would rather have an educated, legally armed, and licensed public than one that is defenseless against criminals.

I have no idea how the CCW law would affect the former.

Until you are able to totally disarm EVERYONE in society, an armed, educated, licensed, and law abiding public is a good deterrence for those looking to do you harm.

It is actually not...do you think the drug dealers and felons are not going to carry guns because people can now carry concealed weapons?  Also, how many drug dealers and felons are you running into on an everyday basis. 

Most crimes are crimes of opportunity and thus local.  Irvine is right next to Santa Ana and yet it's crime rates are substantially lower.  There are no force fields protecting Irvine from gang violence or drive by shootings.  The reason why crime is low is because of an active police force but more importantly, criminals/gangs don't venture out of their neighborhood.     

What CCW laws do is increase the chance of accidental gun injuries or death because people can now carry them in public (without anyone else knowing about it).  It basically tries to address an non-existent threat while creating unnecessary risks as a result.

 

[davenlei]

Ah, thanks for the correction regarding the courts.

I would be more comfortable with law abiding CCW holders who had to go through background, psychological and training to have guns than only 'law breakers' and/or trouble makers carrying guns.

A friend who lives out of state (used to live in SoCal) got his CCW.  He said that he does carry occasionally but a part of taking the classes and training really pounded it in his head that if you pull your gun, you will most likely get detained/arrested until the law figures out if you were in a justifiable situation to brandish your weapon and if you actually fire your weapon, you will spend some time in detainment/jail until they release or charge you and you will most likely get sued by the person (or their family) that you shoot as well as the property owner and whoever else you make pee their pants even if it is justifiable.

So I don't think having CC holders around you is going to create a wild west scenario since they know what the consequences are of even flashing their weapon.

That's the thing...what is the likelihood of you running into a situation where you need a gun?  Especially in a place like Orange County? 

And if you do, 80% of the time, the presence of a gun makes things worse, not better. 

That's not to mention that there is a significant portion of those people who want to carry concealed weapon have a superhero complex and them having guns make it 100000X worse.

Having a CCW is not for everyone and not everyone will encounter having a gun pulled on you or get robbed but you can't say it does not happen.  I have had a gun pulled on me and pointed in my face when I was robbed many years ago.  I was made to lie on the ground face down and thought I was going to be executed.  During the 10 minute ordeal there were several instances where the robber was distracted or left far enough out of the way from viewing distance (but not far enough to run away) only to come back threatening us.  If I had a weapon I would have at least felt I had a fighting chance during those 'distracted' times rather than lie there waiting to see if he felt like leaving witnesses who can identify him or deciding to put a bullet in the back of my head.  Luckily he got spooked and ran away when he heard some noises coming from another area.  This was not a "bad area" where it happened.

Saying that 80% of the time presence of a gun makes things worse is incorrect.  I would say it makes it worse 100% of the time because only the bad guy will have the gun.  A CCW holder should know that they are not there to be the police and to 'uphold the law'.  They should only have it available to defend themselves if they are in a life and death situation.  If someone decides to be robocop, they should NOT have a CCW.

I understand that there is a group of people that gravitate towards guns that may have a superhero complex but it is quite a statement to say there is a 'significant' portion that are like that who want a CCW.  Honestly the people who have the superhero complex probably already carry illegally without the extensive background, psychological or training so I don't know what would be worse.  I know a few people that have CCW's or are seriously thinking about applying and I don't consider any of them having superhero or rambo issues.

 

Do you really think that things would have ended up better had you had a gun?  Had you had a gun, things would have escalated and a good chance that one of the two of you (if not both) would have been shot. 

Not to mention most violent crimes are committed by individuals known to the victim (I believe the estimate was about 70%). 

You have about a 1 in 1500 chance of being involved in a violent crime in Irvine.
http://www.firstteam.com/blog/top-1...-that-would-make-martin-luther-king-jr-proud/

So I don't want to go down the road of finding one fact to counter another fact that counters yet another fact.  We all know that both sides of the gun debate have fact based studies and statistics that invalidate the other sides factoids and that was not the purpose of this thread.

Regarding my situation when I had a gun to my head.  There is more details to the story than I have provided here but neither you or I could say what would or probably would have happened because it did not happen in any other way than it did.  I could counter your point saying that if I had a gun and surprised him when he came back around the corner, he probably would have put his gun down because all he wanted was money and not get shot but I cannot claim that because I don't know if that would have happened.  Any statement other than what actually happened is just conjecture because we don't have the robber here to ask him.

Either way, If someone wants to CC and follows all the legal requirements to do so, they should be able to.  If that person goes superhero, rogue or does anything that abuses the responsibility of having a CCW, they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. 

I must be really unlucky based on your Irvine 1 in 1500 chance (well not me but my immediate neighbor).  When I lived in Irvine there was an incident with my neighbor where a drugged out neighbor of his (a few more houses down from me) went on a drug crazed rant and shot into my neighbors house and was walking around the neighborhood with his illegal gun 'looking' for thieves that he imagined broke into his house (glad my family and I were not home).  Luckily he approached officers (there due to reports of shots fired) asking for help to find the thieves with the gun in his waistband rather than kids or other neighbors.  Found out later he was running a math lab in the rented house as well.  By the way, this was in a part of irvine that is zoned for UNI high.  I am not saying someone with a CCW could have helped the situation but you can't say it would have hurt since he was willing to shoot at shadows.  Just because bad things don't happen to you or anyone you know does not mean it does not happen in the safest of neighborhoods.

 

[qwerty]

Like I've said before, people always say odds of something bad happening to you are 1 in a 1000 or whatever, until you are that one!!! 

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Like I've said before, people always say odds of something bad happening to you are 1 in a 1000 or whatever, until you are that one!!!

We should make decisions based upon fears of extremely minor risks. 

 

[davenlei]

Like I've said before, people always say odds of something bad happening to you are 1 in a 1000 or whatever, until you are that one!!!

We should make decisions based upon fears of extremely minor risks. 

Don't we all do that in many aspects of our lives?  That is why the insurance industry is a multibillion dollar industry and we all have several different types of policies (auto, home, life, travel, etc., etc., etc.,)

I didn't mention lottery tickets or Vegas either.. 

 

[iacrenter]

Until you are able to totally disarm EVERYONE in society, an armed, educated, licensed, and law abiding public is a good deterrence for those looking to do you harm.

It is actually not...do you think the drug dealers and felons are not going to carry guns because people can now carry concealed weapons?  Also, how many drug dealers and felons are you running into on an everyday basis. 

Most crimes are crimes of opportunity and thus local.  Irvine is right next to Santa Ana and yet it's crime rates are substantially lower.  There are no force fields protecting Irvine from gang violence or drive by shootings.  The reason why crime is low is because of an active police force but more importantly, criminals/gangs don't venture out of their neighborhood.     

What CCW laws do is increase the chance of accidental gun injuries or death because people can now carry them in public (without anyone else knowing about it).  It basically tries to address an non-existent threat while creating unnecessary risks as a result.

I don't believe for one minute that criminals will stop carrying guns but they might think twice about pulling one out  if there is a credible counter threat to their actions (CCW, police, cameras etc...).

I respect the Irvine PD/law enforcement but I wouldn't give them all the credit for Irvine's crime level. If you take a highly educated, high income, and high % of Asian residents, you will get a low crime city.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Until you are able to totally disarm EVERYONE in society, an armed, educated, licensed, and law abiding public is a good deterrence for those looking to do you harm.

It is actually not...do you think the drug dealers and felons are not going to carry guns because people can now carry concealed weapons?  Also, how many drug dealers and felons are you running into on an everyday basis. 

Most crimes are crimes of opportunity and thus local.  Irvine is right next to Santa Ana and yet it's crime rates are substantially lower.  There are no force fields protecting Irvine from gang violence or drive by shootings.  The reason why crime is low is because of an active police force but more importantly, criminals/gangs don't venture out of their neighborhood.     

What CCW laws do is increase the chance of accidental gun injuries or death because people can now carry them in public (without anyone else knowing about it).  It basically tries to address an non-existent threat while creating unnecessary risks as a result.

I don't believe for one minute that criminals will stop carrying guns but they might think twice about pulling one out  if there is a credible counter threat to their actions (CCW, police, cameras etc...).

I respect the Irvine PD/law enforcement but I wouldn't give them all the credit for Irvine's crime level. If you take a highly educated, high income, and high % of Asian residents, you will get a low crime city.

Nope.  Criminals shoot at each other all the time even though they are likely to be armed. 

You noticed what you didn't bring up...gun ownership. 

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Like I've said before, people always say odds of something bad happening to you are 1 in a 1000 or whatever, until you are that one!!!

We should make decisions based upon fears of extremely minor risks. 

Don't we all do that in many aspects of our lives?  That is why the insurance industry is a multibillion dollar industry and we all have several different types of policies (auto, home, life, travel, etc., etc., etc.,)

I didn't mention lottery tickets or Vegas either..

1)  Odds of you need medical care in your lifetime in basically 1:1.  You have a 1:18 chance of getting into an accident on annual basis.  Also, you're talking about trading monetary payment in return for minimizing of risk later on.  The only reason to carry insurance is to ensure financial stability. 

2)  Playing the lottery and gambling in Vegas are both really dumb things to do financially.

 

[qwerty]

Like I've said before, people always say odds of something bad happening to you are 1 in a 1000 or whatever, until you are that one!!!

We should make decisions based upon fears of extremely minor risks. 

Then why do u buy insurance? Same concept. When the gun is being held to your head or someone breaks into your house, you wish you had that gun