133/405 (PA18) Medical/Science development

hello said:
Liar Loan said:
hello said:
You asked how something is corrupt.  Well if someone is providing special "incentives" for a specific person or company, then the simple truth is that it is corrupt.  If you want me to say whether this is real life or not, well then that is a different story.  Unfortunately we all know that real life is corrupt as hell.

Usually we think of corruption as companies bribing politicians, but in this case (and many others) it's politicians bribing companies.

exactly...  corrupt either way.

Does intention have anything to do with corruption? It's definitely going to bring a lot of jobs, intelligence, and competitive environment to Irvine IF Amazon decides on its second HQ here. Yes, there are negatives that will be brought as well if this happens in the grand scheme of things, and yes these politicians will reap the benefits of bringing Amazon here, but the positives outweigh the negatives IMO for the communities as a whole. Irvine Co has been wooing companies all the time, not just Amazon. Just the scale is a lot bigger since Amazon is definitely one of the corporate heavyweights this time in history.
 
roya1f1ush said:
hello said:
Liar Loan said:
hello said:
You asked how something is corrupt.  Well if someone is providing special "incentives" for a specific person or company, then the simple truth is that it is corrupt.  If you want me to say whether this is real life or not, well then that is a different story.  Unfortunately we all know that real life is corrupt as hell.

Usually we think of corruption as companies bribing politicians, but in this case (and many others) it's politicians bribing companies.

exactly...  corrupt either way.

Does intention have anything to do with corruption? It's definitely going to bring a lot of jobs, intelligence, and competitive environment to Irvine IF Amazon decides on its second HQ here. Yes, there are negatives that will be brought as well if this happens in the grand scheme of things, and yes these politicians will reap the benefits of bringing Amazon here, but the positives outweigh the negatives IMO for the communities as a whole. Irvine Co has been wooing companies all the time, not just Amazon. Just the scale is a lot bigger since Amazon is definitely one of the corporate heavyweights this time in history.

BTW, I personally don't think Irvine would truly be a highly ranked candidate for Amazon. One of the things they were looking for was easy access to an international airport...ah not to mention a large population of 1mil+ who are "forward, liberal minded".
 
hello said:
eyephone said:
hello said:
eyephone said:
HMart said:
Compressed-Village said:
NJ Christ, Christie, offer a sizable 7 Billion tax incentive. The competition is tough. Amazon sure got everyone aroused.

That guy is corrupt as hell


The combination highest tax incentives and desirable location wins. How is that corrupt?

I would say its definitely corrupt if the tax incentive is only for a particular company.  If the tax incentive is for everyone and anyone, then no.

Okay you can get real also.

You asked how something is corrupt.  Well if someone in govt is providing special "incentives" for a specific person or company, then the simple truth is that it is corrupt.  If you want me to say whether this is real life or not, well then that is a different story.  Unfortunately we all know that real life is corrupt as hell.

I say it?s competition. Let?s say if you were looking for a new job with a recruiter. The recruiter sets you up with two interviews. You do well on the both interviews and get two offers.
Company A offers you 10% more money than your current job.
Company B offers you 25% more money than your current job, and offers a signing bonus.

Is it corrupt for Company B to offer more money and a signing bonus? Is it fair that Company B is offering more because they are backed by private equity or it makes more money than company A. Bottom line is good companies will pay for top talent. If it?s fair or not, oh wells. (On the other hand, there are also companies that are super cheap.)
Same thing with cities or states offering more incentives. The cities and states better hope their incentive package have a good ROI in the long run. (Because it can put them in the red.) You know how that goes, might have to cut services, layoffs, etc..
 
eyephone said:
hello said:
eyephone said:
hello said:
eyephone said:
HMart said:
Compressed-Village said:
NJ Christ, Christie, offer a sizable 7 Billion tax incentive. The competition is tough. Amazon sure got everyone aroused.

That guy is corrupt as hell


The combination highest tax incentives and desirable location wins. How is that corrupt?

I would say its definitely corrupt if the tax incentive is only for a particular company.  If the tax incentive is for everyone and anyone, then no.

Okay you can get real also.

You asked how something is corrupt.  Well if someone in govt is providing special "incentives" for a specific person or company, then the simple truth is that it is corrupt.  If you want me to say whether this is real life or not, well then that is a different story.  Unfortunately we all know that real life is corrupt as hell.

I say it?s competition. Let?s say if you were looking for a new job with a recruiter. The recruiter sets you up with two interviews. You do well on the both interviews and get two offers.
Company A offers you 10% more money than your current job.
Company B offers you 25% more money than your current job, and offers a signing bonus.

Is it corrupt for Company B to offer more money and a signing bonus? Is it fair that Company B is offering more because they are backed by private equity or it makes more money than company A. Bottom line is good companies will pay for top talent. If it?s fair or not, oh wells. (On the other hand, there are also companies that are super cheap.)
Same thing with cities or states offering more incentives. The cities and states better hope their incentive package have a good ROI in the long run. (Because it can put them in the red.) You know how that goes, might have to cut services, layoffs, etc..

If Chris Christie was a CEO of a private company, and New Jersey was the corporation, then the analogy would be more applicable. Private actors can pretty much do anything they want, aside from committing murder and sexual assault. 

However, that isn't the case here. Governors/mayors/etc. aren't private sector CEOs who answer to a board of trustees.  They are public officials.  There are different standards involved when it comes to private vs. public actors.  There is typically more scrutiny when it comes to those who serve the public in such capacities, and that's because tax payer money, and likely some type of federal funds, etc. may be involved.  Such as, would the city end up having to foot the bill for road repair work due to additional trucks being driven in the area (via tax payer money, or federally funded assisted programs which again, usually comes from tax payer money, etc.), while the corporation gets a fat tax break? That's just one silly example.

Now, if the incentives given by the public official to the private corporation are at the expense of the general public, then that's a problem, but then again, up to debate.  Again, whether or not the incentive given results in bettering the community, etc. in the future, and the pros would ultimately outweigh the cons, again, is up for debate.
 
eyephone said:
test said:
eyephone said:
test said:
AlexG said:
Interesting how this land is now included in the proposed new Amazon HQ2 !!!
http://www.oneclickhq2.com/

Yup, perfect site for Amazon campus.

Get real. It won?t happen.

Hmmmm, you must know something Donald Bren doesnt.

Yeah the NJ MEGA offer on the table!

Hahahaha!  NJ is broke.  Giving that much tax credits will sink the ship and Jeff isn't foolish to go down with it.  Donald has deep pockets so Jeff knows the deal is real.
 
range_life said:
eyephone said:
hello said:
eyephone said:
hello said:
eyephone said:
HMart said:
Compressed-Village said:
NJ Christ, Christie, offer a sizable 7 Billion tax incentive. The competition is tough. Amazon sure got everyone aroused.

That guy is corrupt as hell


The combination highest tax incentives and desirable location wins. How is that corrupt?

I would say its definitely corrupt if the tax incentive is only for a particular company.  If the tax incentive is for everyone and anyone, then no.

Okay you can get real also.

You asked how something is corrupt.  Well if someone in govt is providing special "incentives" for a specific person or company, then the simple truth is that it is corrupt.  If you want me to say whether this is real life or not, well then that is a different story.  Unfortunately we all know that real life is corrupt as hell.

I say it?s competition. Let?s say if you were looking for a new job with a recruiter. The recruiter sets you up with two interviews. You do well on the both interviews and get two offers.
Company A offers you 10% more money than your current job.
Company B offers you 25% more money than your current job, and offers a signing bonus.

Is it corrupt for Company B to offer more money and a signing bonus? Is it fair that Company B is offering more because they are backed by private equity or it makes more money than company A. Bottom line is good companies will pay for top talent. If it?s fair or not, oh wells. (On the other hand, there are also companies that are super cheap.)
Same thing with cities or states offering more incentives. The cities and states better hope their incentive package have a good ROI in the long run. (Because it can put them in the red.) You know how that goes, might have to cut services, layoffs, etc..

If Chris Christie was a CEO of a private company, and New Jersey was the corporation, then the analogy would be more applicable. Private actors can pretty much do anything they want, aside from committing murder and sexual assault. 

However, that isn't the case here. Governors/mayors/etc. aren't private sector CEOs who answer to a board of trustees.  They are public officials.  There are different standards involved when it comes to private vs. public actors.  There is typically more scrutiny when it comes to those who serve the public in such capacities, and that's because tax payer money, and likely some type of federal funds, etc. may be involved.  Such as, would the city end up having to foot the bill for road repair work due to additional trucks being driven in the area (via tax payer money, or federally funded assisted programs which again, usually comes from tax payer money, etc.), while the corporation gets a fat tax break? That's just one silly example.

Now, if the incentives given by the public official to the private corporation are at the expense of the general public, then that's a problem, but then again, up to debate.  Again, whether or not the incentive given results in bettering the community, etc. in the future, and the pros would ultimately outweigh the cons, again, is up for debate.

1. Why do companies leave California?
Answer - cost of living high, CA state income tax, CA regulations (and other reasons)
2. Do cities or states offer them additional incentives?
Answer - Yes

The State of California offered incentive for Amazon HQ. (Is this considered corrupt?)





 
I was referring to Chris Christie's corrupt nature from his past activities. Not specifically this government handout to a corporation.
 
roya1f1ush said:
hello said:
Liar Loan said:
hello said:
You asked how something is corrupt.  Well if someone is providing special "incentives" for a specific person or company, then the simple truth is that it is corrupt.  If you want me to say whether this is real life or not, well then that is a different story.  Unfortunately we all know that real life is corrupt as hell.

Usually we think of corruption as companies bribing politicians, but in this case (and many others) it's politicians bribing companies.

exactly...  corrupt either way.

Does intention have anything to do with corruption? It's definitely going to bring a lot of jobs, intelligence, and competitive environment to Irvine IF Amazon decides on its second HQ here. Yes, there are negatives that will be brought as well if this happens in the grand scheme of things, and yes these politicians will reap the benefits of bringing Amazon here, but the positives outweigh the negatives IMO for the communities as a whole. Irvine Co has been wooing companies all the time, not just Amazon. Just the scale is a lot bigger since Amazon is definitely one of the corporate heavyweights this time in history.

Corruption is corruption regardless of intention or the outcomes.  My point is the same.  If a preferential benefit is given to someone/company, especially by govt official, then it is corrupt.  That is my only point and nothing else.
 
eyephone said:
hello said:
eyephone said:
hello said:
eyephone said:
HMart said:
Compressed-Village said:
NJ Christ, Christie, offer a sizable 7 Billion tax incentive. The competition is tough. Amazon sure got everyone aroused.

That guy is corrupt as hell


The combination highest tax incentives and desirable location wins. How is that corrupt?

I would say its definitely corrupt if the tax incentive is only for a particular company.  If the tax incentive is for everyone and anyone, then no.

Okay you can get real also.

You asked how something is corrupt.  Well if someone in govt is providing special "incentives" for a specific person or company, then the simple truth is that it is corrupt.  If you want me to say whether this is real life or not, well then that is a different story.  Unfortunately we all know that real life is corrupt as hell.

I say it?s competition. Let?s say if you were looking for a new job with a recruiter. The recruiter sets you up with two interviews. You do well on the both interviews and get two offers.
Company A offers you 10% more money than your current job.
Company B offers you 25% more money than your current job, and offers a signing bonus.

Is it corrupt for Company B to offer more money and a signing bonus? Is it fair that Company B is offering more because they are backed by private equity or it makes more money than company A. Bottom line is good companies will pay for top talent. If it?s fair or not, oh wells. (On the other hand, there are also companies that are super cheap.)
Same thing with cities or states offering more incentives. The cities and states better hope their incentive package have a good ROI in the long run. (Because it can put them in the red.) You know how that goes, might have to cut services, layoffs, etc..

Sorry, this is a horrible analogy.  Offering different salaries to employees is completely different from offering tax incentives to ONLY one company. 
 
eyephone said:
range_life said:
eyephone said:
hello said:
eyephone said:
hello said:
eyephone said:
HMart said:
Compressed-Village said:
NJ Christ, Christie, offer a sizable 7 Billion tax incentive. The competition is tough. Amazon sure got everyone aroused.

That guy is corrupt as hell


The combination highest tax incentives and desirable location wins. How is that corrupt?

I would say its definitely corrupt if the tax incentive is only for a particular company.  If the tax incentive is for everyone and anyone, then no.

Okay you can get real also.

You asked how something is corrupt.  Well if someone in govt is providing special "incentives" for a specific person or company, then the simple truth is that it is corrupt.  If you want me to say whether this is real life or not, well then that is a different story.  Unfortunately we all know that real life is corrupt as hell.

I say it?s competition. Let?s say if you were looking for a new job with a recruiter. The recruiter sets you up with two interviews. You do well on the both interviews and get two offers.
Company A offers you 10% more money than your current job.
Company B offers you 25% more money than your current job, and offers a signing bonus.

Is it corrupt for Company B to offer more money and a signing bonus? Is it fair that Company B is offering more because they are backed by private equity or it makes more money than company A. Bottom line is good companies will pay for top talent. If it?s fair or not, oh wells. (On the other hand, there are also companies that are super cheap.)
Same thing with cities or states offering more incentives. The cities and states better hope their incentive package have a good ROI in the long run. (Because it can put them in the red.) You know how that goes, might have to cut services, layoffs, etc..

If Chris Christie was a CEO of a private company, and New Jersey was the corporation, then the analogy would be more applicable. Private actors can pretty much do anything they want, aside from committing murder and sexual assault. 

However, that isn't the case here. Governors/mayors/etc. aren't private sector CEOs who answer to a board of trustees.  They are public officials.  There are different standards involved when it comes to private vs. public actors.  There is typically more scrutiny when it comes to those who serve the public in such capacities, and that's because tax payer money, and likely some type of federal funds, etc. may be involved.  Such as, would the city end up having to foot the bill for road repair work due to additional trucks being driven in the area (via tax payer money, or federally funded assisted programs which again, usually comes from tax payer money, etc.), while the corporation gets a fat tax break? That's just one silly example.

Now, if the incentives given by the public official to the private corporation are at the expense of the general public, then that's a problem, but then again, up to debate.  Again, whether or not the incentive given results in bettering the community, etc. in the future, and the pros would ultimately outweigh the cons, again, is up for debate.

1. Why do companies leave California?
Answer - cost of living high, CA state income tax, CA regulations (and other reasons)
2. Do cities or states offer them additional incentives?
Answer - Yes

The State of California offered incentive for Amazon HQ. (Is this considered corrupt?)

Is the incentive offered to everyone or just one specific company?  if the incentive is just for one company, then yes, its corrupt. 
 
Looks like there are a dozen earth movers placed on this parcel. Wondering if it?s prep for Cavalia or grounding breaking for the new ?Spectrum Terraces?!!
 
AlexG said:
Looks like there are a dozen earth movers placed on this parcel. Wondering if it?s prep for Cavalia or grounding breaking for the new ?Spectrum Terraces?!!

You mean "Amazon HQ2"!!
 
Looks like this land is being graded for development soon. Apparently Cavalia is being held in Camarillo this year and not in its usual spot in Irvine!!
 
This is it.

1114_nws_ocr_l_irvcouncil-01.jpg

http://www.ocregister.com/2017/11/1...ce-campus-at-cavalia-tent-site-in-quail-hill/



 
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