Half Bathrooms Next to the Kitchen

[quote author="Geotpf" date=1248751708][quote author="bkshopr" date=1248737254][quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1248647786][quote author="Geotpf" date=1248580262]However, I have two minor quibbles. One is a pure terminology one-that's not a great room, that's a living room. It's nowhere near the kitchen, the ceiling doesn't appear to be very high, and it's not very large. Second, the laundry is in the garage. It would be fairly easy to just add a wall there, seperating it from the garage.</blockquote>


Well, it's hardly BK's fault that he was asked to divvy up a shoebox. All you can ask is that he did the best he could, which is way better than most could have. Frankly, I felt cramped just looking at the plan. What's the square footage on these?</blockquote>


1,430 sf. 33x33 footprint including a 20x20 garage and 50% of the patio yard.</blockquote>


That "feels" a lot smaller than 1,433 sq ft. Must be the fact that it's a two story and I'm used to looking at one stories out here in Riverside.</blockquote>


It is actually 1,333 sf of usable space because the stairs almost took up 100sf.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1248755151][quote author="Geotpf" date=1248751708][quote author="bkshopr" date=1248737254][quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1248647786][quote author="Geotpf" date=1248580262]However, I have two minor quibbles. One is a pure terminology one-that's not a great room, that's a living room. It's nowhere near the kitchen, the ceiling doesn't appear to be very high, and it's not very large. Second, the laundry is in the garage. It would be fairly easy to just add a wall there, seperating it from the garage.</blockquote>


Well, it's hardly BK's fault that he was asked to divvy up a shoebox. All you can ask is that he did the best he could, which is way better than most could have. Frankly, I felt cramped just looking at the plan. What's the square footage on these?</blockquote>


1,430 sf. 33x33 footprint including a 20x20 garage and 50% of the patio yard.</blockquote>


That "feels" a lot smaller than 1,433 sq ft. Must be the fact that it's a two story and I'm used to looking at one stories out here in Riverside.</blockquote>


It is actually 1,333 sf of usable space because the stairs almost took up 100sf.</blockquote>


Exactly. Plus, there's the extra half bath that is the initial point of this thread which can done away with in a one story.



Edit: I thought of another wasted space that can be eliminated in a one story-hallways. This plan actually is quite good for a two story at keeping hallways to a minimum, but with a one story, if designed correctly, you can all but eliminate them. My house, as well as my mother's house, both in Riverside, both basically have no hallways, other than a small square of a hallway (maybe fifteen square feet) that has the doors to two (non-master) bedrooms, the door to the non-master bath, and a linen closet (my house also has a coat closet in this stub of a hallway), with no actual long, useless corridors.
 
[quote author="Geotpf" date=1248756061][quote author="bkshopr" date=1248755151][quote author="Geotpf" date=1248751708][quote author="bkshopr" date=1248737254][quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1248647786][quote author="Geotpf" date=1248580262]However, I have two minor quibbles. One is a pure terminology one-that's not a great room, that's a living room. It's nowhere near the kitchen, the ceiling doesn't appear to be very high, and it's not very large. Second, the laundry is in the garage. It would be fairly easy to just add a wall there, seperating it from the garage.</blockquote>


Well, it's hardly BK's fault that he was asked to divvy up a shoebox. All you can ask is that he did the best he could, which is way better than most could have. Frankly, I felt cramped just looking at the plan. What's the square footage on these?</blockquote>


1,430 sf. 33x33 footprint including a 20x20 garage and 50% of the patio yard.</blockquote>


That "feels" a lot smaller than 1,433 sq ft. Must be the fact that it's a two story and I'm used to looking at one stories out here in Riverside.</blockquote>


It is actually 1,333 sf of usable space because the stairs almost took up 100sf.</blockquote>


Exactly. Plus, there's the extra half bath that is the initial point of this thread which can done away with in a one story.</blockquote>


You do the math. For every 10 single story homes TIC can fit (20) 2 story homes. Unless consumers are willing to pay double for a single story then the land equation will not balance. Inland empire where the land cost is less than framing then you will see more single story homes.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1248757509][quote author="Geotpf" date=1248756061][quote author="bkshopr" date=1248755151][quote author="Geotpf" date=1248751708][quote author="bkshopr" date=1248737254][quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1248647786][quote author="Geotpf" date=1248580262]However, I have two minor quibbles. One is a pure terminology one-that's not a great room, that's a living room. It's nowhere near the kitchen, the ceiling doesn't appear to be very high, and it's not very large. Second, the laundry is in the garage. It would be fairly easy to just add a wall there, seperating it from the garage.</blockquote>


Well, it's hardly BK's fault that he was asked to divvy up a shoebox. All you can ask is that he did the best he could, which is way better than most could have. Frankly, I felt cramped just looking at the plan. What's the square footage on these?</blockquote>


1,430 sf. 33x33 footprint including a 20x20 garage and 50% of the patio yard.</blockquote>


That "feels" a lot smaller than 1,433 sq ft. Must be the fact that it's a two story and I'm used to looking at one stories out here in Riverside.</blockquote>


It is actually 1,333 sf of usable space because the stairs almost took up 100sf.</blockquote>


Exactly. Plus, there's the extra half bath that is the initial point of this thread which can done away with in a one story.</blockquote>


You do the math. For every 10 single story homes TIC can fit (20) 2 story homes. Unless consumers are willing to pay double for a single story then the land equation will not balance. Inland empire where the land cost is less than framing then you will see more single story homes.</blockquote>


Of course. It's definitely the difference between a land poor and a land rich area. Plus, for a normal subdivision, the city of Riverside has a minimum lot size of 7,000 sq ft (actually 6,969 sq ft, exactly .16 of an acre). (Irvine-style developments with community ammeities can be on smaller lots, but until the last five years or so those were exceedingly rare.)
 
Did any one watch Steve Wynn on 60 Minutes last night? He talked about his success on both Mirage and Treasure Island and his recent Wynn and Encore despite of the resession.
 
[quote author="Geotpf" date=1248758295][quote author="bkshopr" date=1248757509][quote author="Geotpf" date=1248756061][quote author="bkshopr" date=1248755151][quote author="Geotpf" date=1248751708][quote author="bkshopr" date=1248737254][quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1248647786][quote author="Geotpf" date=1248580262]However, I have two minor quibbles. One is a pure terminology one-that's not a great room, that's a living room. It's nowhere near the kitchen, the ceiling doesn't appear to be very high, and it's not very large. Second, the laundry is in the garage. It would be fairly easy to just add a wall there, seperating it from the garage.</blockquote>


Well, it's hardly BK's fault that he was asked to divvy up a shoebox. All you can ask is that he did the best he could, which is way better than most could have. Frankly, I felt cramped just looking at the plan. What's the square footage on these?</blockquote>


1,430 sf. 33x33 footprint including a 20x20 garage and 50% of the patio yard.</blockquote>


That "feels" a lot smaller than 1,433 sq ft. Must be the fact that it's a two story and I'm used to looking at one stories out here in Riverside.</blockquote>


It is actually 1,333 sf of usable space because the stairs almost took up 100sf.</blockquote>


Exactly. Plus, there's the extra half bath that is the initial point of this thread which can done away with in a one story.</blockquote>


You do the math. For every 10 single story homes TIC can fit (20) 2 story homes. Unless consumers are willing to pay double for a single story then the land equation will not balance. Inland empire where the land cost is less than framing then you will see more single story homes.</blockquote>


Of course. It's definitely the difference between a land poor and a land rich area. Plus, for a normal subdivision, the city of Riverside has a minimum lot size of 7,000 sq ft (actually 6,969 sq ft, exactly .16 of an acre). (Irvine-style developments with community ammeities can be on smaller lots, but until the last five years or so those were exceedingly rare.)</blockquote>


When OC builders invaded inland they also brought along with them OC land calculation regardless of Inland Empires financial sustainability. The collapse of the IE market was the hardest because of it.
 
If anyone is looking for a 3-bedroom (ex-IPO style) detached condo, I know of one that's available now for just over $600K in Northpark, but will be in MLS in two weeks.



This is not my listing... an office-mate's. Is being held off because agent is out of town on vacation.



<strong><a href="http://floorplans.irvinerealtorsite.com/Northpark/SanSimeon/SanSimeonC1635.JPG">San Simeon Plan 3. </a></strong> 3 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, 1635sqft. List price will be $624,900.



Comparable info:

Another identical floorplan sold at 72 Arcata on 6/18 for $602K, no concessions, standard sale.

A <strong><a href="http://floorplans.irvinerealtorsite.com/Northpark/SanSimeon/SanSimeonD1750.JPG">plan 4</a></strong> (4 bedrooms/3 baths/1750sqft) at 75 Modesto closed in April for $595K



For the record, I still firmly believe that prices will continue to drop. Just giving the IHB crowd an early head's up for those that are interested.



Would be interested to hear bk's thoughts about strengths and weaknesses of this floorplan, considering that it is his design.



-IR2
 
Plans were conceived in 1998 when TV was thicker than a refrigerator.



Plan 3 is tight for a dining table in the kitchen area. Some people would furnish a formal dining in the front room. The access to the yard is far from the kitchen slider. Cal Pac did not want to add a door next to the yard thus ruining the furnishing wall.



Plan 4 is almost perfect except for the TV and fireplace wall. I felt the fireplace compromised the TV location and only a few buyers took this option. Today's flat screen would not have dictated the angled TV condition.



Large BR sizes is the strength of the detached condos.



These detached condos in resale would limit the price ceiling of all TIC's future attached condos. The later projects such as Mericourt and Decada were too expensive and they will experience the greater fall in prices. Turtle Ridge's detached condos would be interesting to track whether the prices there are really WTF invincible?
 
Bk - May I ask why none of the San Simeons have a window in the second bathrooms on the upper floors? It looks like they would have space above the tubs but they do not appear to have them. Humidity is difficult to control without a window.
 
[quote author="SoCal78" date=1248767155]Bk - May I ask why none of the San Simeons have a window in the second bathrooms on the upper floors? It looks like they would have space above the tubs but they do not appear to have them. Humidity is difficult to control without a window.</blockquote>


While you're at it, can you explain why my house has a window in the hall bath on the second floor that doesn't open? Is this common? It really irritates me!
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1248766112]Plans were conceived in 1998 when TV was thicker than a refrigerator.

[...]

Today's flat screen would not have dictated the angled TV condition.

</blockquote>
So LCD TVs have made floor plan design easier?



Someone needs to invent flat stove/ovens, refrigerators and washer/dryers so we can have bigger garages and master bedroom/bathrooms.
 
[quote author="SoCal78" date=1248767155]Bk - May I ask why none of the San Simeons have a window in the second bathrooms on the upper floors? It looks like they would have space above the tubs but they do not appear to have them. Humidity is difficult to control without a window.</blockquote>


Typically on the lower end starter house the tub/shower combo is a one piece 6' tall fiberglass enclosure dropped into place. To place a window on to the wall would be very difficult when requiring cutting into the fiberglass and that would void all warranty. Placing it above the panel would be to high and also allowed unseen moisture to sit on the ledge that quickly weaken the green board drywall allowing water to seep into the framing or behind drywall cumulatively turning trapped moisture into mold.



Some bathroom placement adjacent to neighbors private patio yard would not get operational windows due to privacy. Some windows might even have the translucent or fluted glass to blur the view.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1248766112]

Large BR sizes is the strength of the detached condos.



</blockquote>


The furnishable secondary bedrooms is the feature I like best about cal pac's detached condos. Families can actually live in such homes. The 1/2 garage size bedroom in other floor plans look great with a crib and changing table but would be a dungeon for an older child. However, even if a teenager could have a nice bedroom in a cal pac detached condo, he won't have anywhere to park his car since there is no driveway and insufficient street parking.
 
[quote author="High Gravity" date=1248829103][quote author="bkshopr" date=1248766112]

Large BR sizes is the strength of the detached condos.



</blockquote>


The furnishable secondary bedrooms is the feature I like best about cal pac's detached condos. Families can actually live in such homes. The 1/2 garage size bedroom in other floor plans look great with a crib and changing table but would be a dungeon for an older child. However, even if a teenager could have a nice bedroom in a cal pac detached condo, he won't have anywhere to park his car since there is no driveway and insufficient street parking.</blockquote>


For every 10 homes there are 7 stalls along the curbside. When residents do not park in the garage it is the problem created by people and not the flaw of the parking code. City of Irvine approved only 2 stalls in front of every cluster and the parking has been met. In reality 4 cars could fit in front of the cluster and having 2 extra stalls would bring the count of 9 parking spaces for every 10 homes. For some reasons it is never enough.



The problem lies in the location at the end of every block where most of the stalls are. They are not well distributed.
 
The parking problem is another side effect of small lot sizes of condos and Irvine-style housing tracts. If lot sizes were six or seven thousand square feet or more, there would be plenty of street parking automatically, not to mention additional parking on driveways, not even counting garages. The only time I see parking problems in traditional housing tracts is when the streets are exceptionally narrow, even if some/all of the houses use their garages for things other than vehicle storage. You can typically park two to four cars in each driveway, plus two or three on the street in front of each house (double that for a house on a corner lot), plus two or three spaces in each garage if not used for other purposes.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1248832129]When residents do not park in the garage it is the problem created by people and not the flaw of the parking code. </blockquote>


It's been many years but I'm still pissed about my neighbor behind me who had a large ugly SUV permanetly berthed in front of my detached condo for 2 years. He had 3 cars so both stalls in his garage were occupied. After that experience, I swore that, like my guns, they will have to pry my driveway out of my cold dead hands.
 
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