19,140 signatures to overturn Irvine?s decision on veterans cemetery location

bones said:
Irvinecommuter said:
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This forum definitely missed you IC!  Another SJC > SNA thing is there are direct flights to Hawaii.  I never understood why sna can?t support one flight a day to the islands. I heard there are some weight issues flying west in addition to not being able to fill seats.
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Short runways.  SNA can't support anything above a 757.  This will probably start being less of an issue with the newer and lighter planes.

There is always LGB.
 
Irvinecommuter said:
bones said:
Irvinecommuter said:
double
Click to expand...

This forum definitely missed you IC!  Another SJC > SNA thing is there are direct flights to Hawaii.  I never understood why sna can?t support one flight a day to the islands. I heard there are some weight issues flying west in addition to not being able to fill seats.
Click to expand...

Short runways.  SNA can't support anything above a 757.  This will probably start being less of an issue with the newer and lighter planes.

There is always LGB.
Click to expand...

I don?t think LGB has anything direct either. I?m pretty sure they used to fly 737s out of sna to Hawaii so there are ways around the runway but I guess that coupled with other issues made it not viable for the airlines to run that route.
 
bones said:
Irvinecommuter said:
bones said:
Irvinecommuter said:
double
Click to expand...

This forum definitely missed you IC!  Another SJC > SNA thing is there are direct flights to Hawaii.  I never understood why sna can?t support one flight a day to the islands. I heard there are some weight issues flying west in addition to not being able to fill seats.
Click to expand...

Short runways.  SNA can't support anything above a 757.  This will probably start being less of an issue with the newer and lighter planes.

There is always LGB.
Click to expand...

I don?t think LGB has anything direct either. I?m pretty sure they used to fly 737s out of sna to Hawaii so there are ways around the runway but I guess that coupled with other issues made it not viable for the airlines to run that route.
Click to expand...

Well...Southwest is going to fly to Hawaii now so I assume that SNA will get some of that traffic.
 
I thought there were flights from SNA to Hawaii before.

If I remember correctly they had one stop at Vegas or SanFran, or were they direct?
 
Irvinecommuter said:
bones said:
Irvinecommuter said:
bones said:
Irvinecommuter said:
double
Click to expand...

This forum definitely missed you IC!  Another SJC > SNA thing is there are direct flights to Hawaii.  I never understood why sna can?t support one flight a day to the islands. I heard there are some weight issues flying west in addition to not being able to fill seats.
Click to expand...

Short runways.  SNA can't support anything above a 757.  This will probably start being less of an issue with the newer and lighter planes.

There is always LGB.
Click to expand...

I don?t think LGB has anything direct either. I?m pretty sure they used to fly 737s out of sna to Hawaii so there are ways around the runway but I guess that coupled with other issues made it not viable for the airlines to run that route.
Click to expand...

Well...Southwest is going to fly to Hawaii now so I assume that SNA will get some of that traffic.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't just assume that.

SWA HAD flights to Cancun which started end of last year but quickly gave that up because they were using other airlines excess gate slots. When the other airlines wanted to add more flights out of John Wayne, SWA had to give up the Cancun route.

IF they can get slots maybe they will fly to Hawaii (or maybe if they reduce another route they have to get to Hawaii).
 
irvinehomeowner said:
I thought there were flights from SNA to Hawaii before.

If I remember correctly they had one stop at Vegas or SanFran, or were they direct?
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Aloha flew direct but they went bankrupt. Continental had a direct flight too but they cancelled it.

I?m not sure southwest will have flights to Hawaii out of SNA. Points guy didn?t seem to think so.
 
Saddest thing about the petition is the removal of the flags representing the five military branches at the corner of Barranca and Alton.

It shows how poorly informed Irvine residents are when signing a misleading survey. Shame on people for not caring and thinking. Shame on Larry Agran for selfishly ruining Irvine...again.
 
eyephone said:
Where?s that guy talking madness? Apparently after my comment, he didn?t respond.
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I doubt he was even a Marine. He seemed like one of those paid internet instigators from a troll farm.
 
Irvinecommuter said:
OCtoSV said:
The Wall St banks advise on many of these deals, not to mention all the debt offerings being done by the big tech companies with money so cheap. They all have major offices in the Bay area.

SJC airport was like SNA when I moved here, but the business environment pushed the growth into an intl airport. ETIA was more of a field of dreams approach but nevertheless it seems very likely it would have generated business growth.

SV demographics are pretty close to Irvine. My kids high school is 50% white/50% Asian with 40+ NM scholars named this year. I see OC -> LA as similar to SJC/Peninsula -> East Bay, and Caltech/Harvey Mudd/Pomona College/USC/UCLA stacks up to Cal/Stanford. Bay area commerce is greatly facilitated by 3 int'l airports (OAK, SFO, SJC) within 50 mi of each other, and with 5x the population you'd think metro LA/OC would have benefited from a second int'l airport.  oh well.

With the high number of execs that likely have to do frequent coast to coast and intl travel that live in NB they would probably be thrilled if SNA was an intl airport.
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Venture capitalists are closer to tech mentality than Wall Street/Banker mentality.  They don't fly in and fly out to make a deal.  Wall Street and lawyers help but VCs are fundamentally different.  Of course they have offices in the BA...that has nothing to do with SJC.

SJ has tried to make SJC an international airport for years.  They tried it in the 1980s/1990s when they were selling direct flights to Japan from SJC...eventually they failed.  SFO is still the dominant international airport.  Peninsula is so much closer to SFO than it is SJC, especially factoring in traffic.

LA/OC is not being held back by a lack of airports.  LA/OC is fundamentally different from the BA culturally.  SV has a young/single demographics while OC is a family based demographics.  Irvine is attracting the tech people who settled down and want to buy a place in a good neighborhood with good schools.  It goes way beyond racial demographics.

Regardless...the original conversation was about an Irvine airport.  If that did exist, it would wreck the home value of Irvine and half of Southern OC.  You may think that it is worth it but that does not change the fact that Irvine would be fundamentally different than what it is now.
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IC - it's a good debate.

It's funny - I tell people up here that I can't wait to retire back to South OC and they think I'm nuts. The view up here is crowds and mega-traffic worse than the Bay area, no 3 hrs to Tahoe and a lower performing economy and job market.

I stand by my thesis that an ETIA would have been the highest ROI usage of the base and would have fundamentally transformed the OC economy. Proximity to LAX is a factor in the sky high prices in prime South Bay communities (all far more expensive than Irvine) and I think the same would have happened for prime communities in proximity to the ETIA.

I hope the cemetery pans out.
 
OCtoSV said:
Irvinecommuter said:
OCtoSV said:
The Wall St banks advise on many of these deals, not to mention all the debt offerings being done by the big tech companies with money so cheap. They all have major offices in the Bay area.

SJC airport was like SNA when I moved here, but the business environment pushed the growth into an intl airport. ETIA was more of a field of dreams approach but nevertheless it seems very likely it would have generated business growth.

SV demographics are pretty close to Irvine. My kids high school is 50% white/50% Asian with 40+ NM scholars named this year. I see OC -> LA as similar to SJC/Peninsula -> East Bay, and Caltech/Harvey Mudd/Pomona College/USC/UCLA stacks up to Cal/Stanford. Bay area commerce is greatly facilitated by 3 int'l airports (OAK, SFO, SJC) within 50 mi of each other, and with 5x the population you'd think metro LA/OC would have benefited from a second int'l airport.  oh well.

With the high number of execs that likely have to do frequent coast to coast and intl travel that live in NB they would probably be thrilled if SNA was an intl airport.
Click to expand...

Venture capitalists are closer to tech mentality than Wall Street/Banker mentality.  They don't fly in and fly out to make a deal.  Wall Street and lawyers help but VCs are fundamentally different.  Of course they have offices in the BA...that has nothing to do with SJC.

SJ has tried to make SJC an international airport for years.  They tried it in the 1980s/1990s when they were selling direct flights to Japan from SJC...eventually they failed.  SFO is still the dominant international airport.  Peninsula is so much closer to SFO than it is SJC, especially factoring in traffic.

LA/OC is not being held back by a lack of airports.  LA/OC is fundamentally different from the BA culturally.  SV has a young/single demographics while OC is a family based demographics.  Irvine is attracting the tech people who settled down and want to buy a place in a good neighborhood with good schools.  It goes way beyond racial demographics.

Regardless...the original conversation was about an Irvine airport.  If that did exist, it would wreck the home value of Irvine and half of Southern OC.  You may think that it is worth it but that does not change the fact that Irvine would be fundamentally different than what it is now.
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IC - it's a good debate.

It's funny - I tell people up here that I can't wait to retire back to South OC and they think I'm nuts. The view up here is crowds and mega-traffic worse than the Bay area, no 3 hrs to Tahoe and a lower performing economy and job market.

I stand by my thesis that an ETIA would have been the highest ROI usage of the base and would have fundamentally transformed the OC economy. Proximity to LAX is a factor in the sky high prices in prime South Bay communities (all far more expensive than Irvine) and I think the same would have happened for prime communities in proximity to the ETIA.

I hope the cemetery pans out.
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South Bay and Torrance have high prices cause they are near beaches and coast line.  Hawthorne and Inglewood are not exactly prime residential real estate.

As I stated before, I lived in the BA for 20 years.  It is a very different environment from Irvine and OC.  It is not "better" or "worse"...it just depends on what you are looking for.   

The cemetery will be a boon for Irvine Company and bad for Five Points.
 
If Agran named his signature gathering campaign "Move the Graveyard back to the original hidden location" he would be lacking in signatures.

I am a proponent of the graveyard near the freeway because more people will see it and reflect on the hundreds of tombstones as they drive by.

Perhaps a massive stone monument with some cheesy line like "FREEDOM ISN'T FREE" facing the 5 freeway.

FREEDOM ISN'T FREE
 
zubs said:
If Agran named his signature gathering campaign "Move the Graveyard back to the original hidden location" he would be lacking in signatures.

I am a proponent of the graveyard near the freeway because more people will see it and reflect on the hundreds of tombstones as they drive by.

Perhaps a massive stone monument with some cheesy line like "FREEDOM ISN'T FREE" facing the 5 freeway.

FREEDOM ISN'T FREE
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The scrolling adds extra class.
 
irvinehomeowner said:
I thought there were flights from SNA to Hawaii before.

If I remember correctly they had one stop at Vegas or SanFran, or were they direct?
Click to expand...

Alaska Airlines had nonstop flights from SNA to Oahu.  I took them 2 years in a row.  Was pretty awesome sauce.
 
OCtoSV said:
Back on the airport topic, Delta just announce new non-stops to JFK from SJC, bringing us to 4 carriers flying daily non-stop to EWR or JFK. Primary reason given was NY as #1 business travel destination for Bay area.
https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loc...-Between-San-Jose-and-New-York-463919813.html

Meanwhile AMZN looks to be circling in on ATL - which has basically the world's highest capacity int'l airport.

Party on ETIA NIMBYs!
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Your infatuation with airports is quite fascinating...LGB flies to NY daily. 

Again...Silicon Valley developed and grew for 30 years while SJC was a pretty unimportant airport. 

There is literally major airports in every metro area, Austin is also a favorite as is NC...neither one have the largest airport.
 
San Jose has grown rapidly over the past decade, to the point that it it is the economic engine of the Bay area if you look at the # of HQ there relative to Peninsula and SF. My point is this has been facilitated by having a legit intl airport, which has fueled a feedback loop of airport capacity and route growth.

Irvine to LGB in morning rush hour is 1.5 hr drive. Not really an attractive  option.

The absence of ETIA will make Irvine a lovely lower cost beach-close locale for my retirement as growth will be permanently capped by the lack of int'l airport, but I'm sure the rest of OC would have relished the growth ETIA could have helped catalyze.
 
OCtoSV said:
San Jose has grown rapidly over the past decade, to the point that it it is the economic engine of the Bay area if you look at the # of HQ there relative to Peninsula and SF. My point is this has been facilitated by having a legit intl airport, which has fueled a feedback loop of airport capacity and route growth.

Irvine to LGB in morning rush hour is 1.5 hr drive. Not really an attractive  option.

The absence of ETIA will make Irvine a lovely lower cost beach-close locale for my retirement as growth will be permanently capped by the lack of int'l airport, but I'm sure the rest of OC would have relished the growth ETIA could have helped catalyze.
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No it wouldn't...SJC was stagnant for years.  It was sort of a passing joke for awhile because SJC called itself an international airport for a long time but didn't have any legit international flights.  It lost a ton of routes in mid-2000s.

Silicon Valley drove SJC traffic...not the other way around. 
 
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