41% off in 2 days in Tustin???

Irvinian_IHB

New member
Can somebody with access tell me what's going on with this property? It sold for $630k in April of 07 and was listed as short sale for $490k on 7/4/09 but all of a suddenly it dropped to $285k on 7/6/09.







<a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Tustin/17792-Norwood-Park-Pl-92780/home/4484692">Linky</a>
 
Hmm.. It's a short sale so they may have dropped the asking price to get more interest. (I didn't see anything else listed in the private remarks)
 
Short sale shenanigans ? Submit an offer for 250k and see what happens; today, it is worth that price. 3 years from now, hard to say.
 
How could this sell for $630,000 in 2007... Wow, can't believe someone paid that and can't believe someone didn't find smoething nice even in 2007 for $630,000.
 
[quote author="Roo" date=1247718776]How could this sell for $630,000 in 2007... Wow, can't believe someone paid that and can't believe someone didn't find smoething nice even in 2007 for $630,000.</blockquote>


I live in Orange but still pretty close to this place. At the height of WTF pricing, this was likely a high 600's property.



It's current price puts it right around the current $/s.f. calculation on Redfin. I think rental parity is around $220K or so......but this is a short sale aka "no hope". It'll be auctioned and legitly back on the market as an REO in another year or so.



And BTW, it might be a dump to you, but I'd live in that dump.
 
[quote author="xoneinax" date=1247718376]Short sale shenanigans ? Submit an offer for 250k and see what happens; today, it is worth that price. 3 years from now, hard to say.</blockquote>


Just so you guys understand how the listing agents are gaming the system....



A listing agent will put a property on the market for 20% or more below comps to attract attention. The property will get 20 bids or more, and the listing agent will pick through the offers to find the bidders who are not represented by another agent. Then the listing agent will approach these couple of bidders and offers to work with them as their buyer's broker so they can "double end" the transaction and make 6% instead of 3%.
 
[quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1247732421][quote author="xoneinax" date=1247718376]Short sale shenanigans ? Submit an offer for 250k and see what happens; today, it is worth that price. 3 years from now, hard to say.</blockquote>


Just so you guys understand how the listing agents are gaming the system....



A listing agent will put a property on the market for 20% or more below comps to attract attention. The property will get 20 bids or more, and the listing agent will pick through the offers to find the bidders who are not represented by another agent. Then the listing agent will approach these couple of bidders and offers to work with them as their buyer's broker so they can "double end" the transaction and make 6% instead of 3%.</blockquote>


Have you seen deals were it goes for significantly below comps with a double commission for the agent? From a buyers perspective if I could get the house for 20% below comps I don't care what the agent is making.
 
Somebody paid $630k in 2007 for a thousand square foot house with one bathroom, no air conditioning, on a septic system. Amazing.



I wonder if the room in the last picture is permitted-it appears to be on a slab with the rest of the house on a raised foundation-see the stairs transitioning from one to the other? The overhead shot shows an addition to the rear, probably that room. And they appear to be counting it in the square footage, since the listing says "Sq. Ft. Source: Other (See Remarks)" instead of "Sq. Ft. Source: Assessor".
 
I went and looked at it.



It has no lot. By Irvine standards, it's huge, but it's roughly half the lot size compared to the tracts south and north of it on Prospect.



There were two unregestered cars in the driveway, like a 2001 Acura, and a Joe Dirt Special 1972 El Camino. The garage door was overflowing with bikes. The street was packed with cars. I figure it might rent for $1450, but it would need some work to get there. I don't know what it rents for without AC. In my case I wouldn't rent it at all.



This street and the one next to it got developed by somebody other than the guy who developed the surrounding tracts. For a brief moment I understood the infatuation with master planned Kingdom of Irvine, but thankfully my wife slapped me back into sanity before I went down that road. Seriously, I really do understand it a little better after today. Many cities in SoCal are like fighting in Iraq, it's block by block hand to hand combat! You find four streets that are fine and one really shitty one that just wrecks the whole block.



It's moments like this I miss Visalia, the best city planning of any growing city in California IMO.
 
[quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1247732421][quote author="xoneinax" date=1247718376]Short sale shenanigans ? Submit an offer for 250k and see what happens; today, it is worth that price. 3 years from now, hard to say.</blockquote>


Just so you guys understand how the listing agents are gaming the system....



A listing agent will put a property on the market for 20% or more below comps to attract attention. The property will get 20 bids or more, and the listing agent will pick through the offers to find the bidders who are not represented by another agent. Then the listing agent will approach these couple of bidders and offers to work with them as their buyer's broker so they can "double end" the transaction and make 6% instead of 3%.</blockquote>


I respectfully disagree.



In looking at the data for closings so far in 2009 in Irvine, Tustin, Orange, and Santa Ana, there are 568 reported closed short sales.

Of those, 94 had the same listing agent and buyer's agent (a double-ended deal) which runs at about a 16% clip.

Upon further inspection, only one agent double-ended more than once.

He may be your lone gunman.



Looking at non-short sale transactions over the same period in the same cities, there were 2848 closed transactions.

Of these transactions, there were 301 incidents of the agent representing both buyer and seller, or about 11%.

There were 58 agents that did this multiple times. One agent managed to do it 5 times.



From personal experience, I've witnessed that the banks have a protection clause for just this scenario in their boilerplate. Loss mitigation groups typically cap their rate at 5% total commissions to be paid, and cut the rate to 3% if agent represents both parties. There is no incentive for the agent to "cherrypick" and represent both parties since he or she would essentially be doing the work of two agents for single pay.



I believe sugarspun previously professed to be a working primarily in short sales, and may have more light to shed on this.

I'd be interested to here his/her take.



-IR2
 
[quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1247732421][quote author="xoneinax" date=1247718376]Short sale shenanigans ? Submit an offer for 250k and see what happens; today, it is worth that price. 3 years from now, hard to say.</blockquote>


Just so you guys understand how the listing agents are gaming the system....



A listing agent will put a property on the market for 20% or more below comps to attract attention. The property will get 20 bids or more, and the listing agent will pick through the offers to find the bidders who are not represented by another agent. Then the listing agent will approach these couple of bidders and offers to work with them as their buyer's broker so they can "double end" the transaction and make 6% instead of 3%.</blockquote>
I agree with IR2 on his take and I'll add a little to it. One of the reasons these realtors listing a property 20%+ below market comps to generate lots of listings so they can gather them all up and submit the short sale package to the bank ASAP because they realize the process will take months even if they are successful with the short sale. That is exactly what happened with 40 Desert Willow over in Columbus Grove. I called the listing agent because one of my buyers want to get more info and see if we could schedule an appt. to view the property. Well, the bitchy listing agent basically told me to f-off because she had already obtained 7 listings (the majority over list price) and that he had submitted the offers with the short sale package on Tuesday night and they she wouldn't be accepting any other offers. Basically gather up all the offers ASAP, ship them out to the bank with the SS package, not short the property or accept any other offers, and just sit back and cross your fingers seems to be the gameplan some of these short sale listing agents have.
 
Not to dogpile on here, but this property is a pile of shit priced right at the neighborhoods $/sf. The rest of the neighborhood should command a premium to this property.



I can't imagine why anyone would want to rent it much less own this dumpy little thing.
 
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1247883768]Not to dogpile on here, but this property is a pile of shit priced right at the neighborhoods $/sf. The rest of the neighborhood should command a premium to this property.



I can't imagine why anyone would want to rent it much less own this dumpy little thing.</blockquote>


If it had air conditioning, was on the city sewer and not septic, and maybe had an additional bathroom, it would be a nice condo-replacement for a single person, or for a new or poor family. Well, assuming it was anywhere near rental parity, which it isn't.



Let's show how out of whack rents are:



This house would probably rent for two thirds no_vas's $1450 estimate if it was in Riverside. In fact, it would fit in here-there are tens of thousands of houses here not unlike it, although most are on the city sewer at least, and most at least have window A/C units (easily added, of course).



But it would sell for one third the price if it was in Riverside.



That is, for every three dollars of rent in Tustin, you would get two dollars in Riverside. But if you sold it, for every three dollars in Tustin you would only get one in Riverside. This can't be substained long term-that's a sign of a badly broken market.
 
[quote author="Geotpf" date=1247894882]If it ... was on the city sewer and not septic</blockquote>These owners obviously ignored the deadline for hooking up to the county sewer. The county was helping cover part of the cost if you scheduled in a timely manner with them. At one point, it was almost free to hook up.



At least you get to go to Foothill High school if you live here.
 
I was only speaking for this tract and the surrounding tracts. I used to get letters in the mail every few years. $400 if you schedule with us by X date for something that normally costs $1200. There is some semi-mandatory date, but they may not enforce it these days.
 
<a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Tustin/18151-Theodora-Dr-92780/home/4486424">This</a> one street over has Backup Offers around 575k after just 7 days. Lot and house are much larger, but $319 per SF seems a little pricey for this 55 year old house in 92780
 
[quote author="xoneinax" date=1248830862]<a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Tustin/18151-Theodora-Dr-92780/home/4486424">This</a> one street over has Backup Offers around 575k after just 7 days. Lot and house are much larger, but $319 per SF seems a little pricey for this 55 year old house in 92780</blockquote>


I agree, but the house does look heavily remodeled.
 
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